(edited by revkn.4071)
My Honest Feedback: GW2 could be epic
Maybe one day ArenaNet can get that right for GW3 if they ever get past their whole “Reinvent the wheel just to be diferent” type of thought process.
Anet has been reinventing the wheel much less in the last few content patches.
Since Raids were introduced, GW2 is inheriting many of the designs and problems that plagues other MMORPG.
I would disagree about the combat system. This game has a pretty complex combat system and can be chain together to do complex tasks. I would rather blame the core issue with the apparent dullness with PvE is the fact that Anet has issues with making content that truely fits Gw2. In other words, Anet is not reinventing the wheel enough.
I think Anet’s “dungeon problem” is the single biggest issue that drove large numbers of players out of the game not long after launch. They just didn’t execute well enough in getting rid of the trinity to make small-group content feel engaging. They blamed the dungeon team, when it was really more of a profession design issue. They’ve improved it steadily since launch, but it’s sort of too little and too late.
They need to really reinvest in 5-man content, not just by adding new fractals every once in a while but also by releasing new world dungeons and revamping old ones periodically as well, and also by doing everything they can to support the concept of “roles” in team play- support/heals, threat aggregation, control/AOE, and single target burst.
Bottom line is, you have to have a functional role system in an MMO. It doesn’t need to be a WoW-style hard trinity, but you have to create a situation where players feel like they’re contributing something both unique and significant to the group.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
I think Anet’s “dungeon problem” is the single biggest issue that drove large numbers of players out of the game not long after launch. They just didn’t execute well enough in getting rid of the trinity to make small-group content feel engaging. They blamed the dungeon team, when it was really more of a profession design issue. They’ve improved it steadily since launch, but it’s sort of too little and too late.
They need to really reinvest in 5-man content, not just by adding new fractals every once in a while but also by releasing new world dungeons and revamping old ones periodically as well, and also by doing everything they can to support the concept of “roles” in team play- support/heals, threat aggregation, control/AOE, and single target burst.
Bottom line is, you have to have a functional role system in an MMO. It doesn’t need to be a WoW-style hard trinity, but you have to create a situation where players feel like they’re contributing something both unique and significant to the group.
What is your idea of a threatening enemy?
I think Anet’s “dungeon problem” is the single biggest issue that drove large numbers of players out of the game not long after launch. They just didn’t execute well enough in getting rid of the trinity to make small-group content feel engaging. They blamed the dungeon team, when it was really more of a profession design issue. They’ve improved it steadily since launch, but it’s sort of too little and too late.
They need to really reinvest in 5-man content, not just by adding new fractals every once in a while but also by releasing new world dungeons and revamping old ones periodically as well, and also by doing everything they can to support the concept of “roles” in team play- support/heals, threat aggregation, control/AOE, and single target burst.
Bottom line is, you have to have a functional role system in an MMO. It doesn’t need to be a WoW-style hard trinity, but you have to create a situation where players feel like they’re contributing something both unique and significant to the group.
Serious question here, since I’m not a dungeon person.
Why aren’t fractals considered a dungeon? They’re both 5 man instanced content where you beat a boss and have a bit of story.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
Anet has bigger problems then that holding this game back. Heres a few.
KEEP IN MIND THIS GAME IS FOUR YEARS OLD AND THESE PROBLEMS STILL EXIST
1. Terrible UI that is completely uncustomizable.
2. Name Plates. Still all you see is blobs of green writing.
3. Tooltips that you can’t even turn off that blot out half the screen.
4. Way to many junk currencies.
5. Still hiding auto-loot behind an achievement
6. HOT. They took the game everyone loved, threw it out the window and re invented the wheel again and drove away half the player base.
7. PVP. 4 years later and we still don’t even have CTF or King of the Hill.
This is just the stuff off the top of my head i can think of.
The point is the little things that Anet never bothers to fix and makes it feel like a cheap experience is what kills alot of the game and makes it feel subpar and unpolished.
7. PVP. 4 years later and we still don’t even have CTF or King of the Hill.
I’m not a pvp person but isn’t the norn one with shrines and the glowy blue ball capture the flag?
2. Name Plates. Still all you see is blobs of green writing.
From the latest patch notes: (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-November-21-2016)
World vs. World
General
There is now an option under Competitive to turn on WvW simple nameplates.
WvW simple nameplates turn enemies’ or all players’ nameplates into circles to help reduce nameplate clutter.
I think Anet’s “dungeon problem” is the single biggest issue that drove large numbers of players out of the game not long after launch. They just didn’t execute well enough in getting rid of the trinity to make small-group content feel engaging. They blamed the dungeon team, when it was really more of a profession design issue. They’ve improved it steadily since launch, but it’s sort of too little and too late.
They need to really reinvest in 5-man content, not just by adding new fractals every once in a while but also by releasing new world dungeons and revamping old ones periodically as well, and also by doing everything they can to support the concept of “roles” in team play- support/heals, threat aggregation, control/AOE, and single target burst.
Bottom line is, you have to have a functional role system in an MMO. It doesn’t need to be a WoW-style hard trinity, but you have to create a situation where players feel like they’re contributing something both unique and significant to the group.
Serious question here, since I’m not a dungeon person.
Why aren’t fractals considered a dungeon? They’re both 5 man instanced content where you beat a boss and have a bit of story.
They are. They just, IMO, aren’t enough on their own. Having one super dungeon that sits in the main player hub isn’t going to compensate for having a lot of other large, thematic world dungeons that players can venture out to.
With that said, like I said above, it’s less about the dungeons themselves and more about how the professions work in PvE. There simply isn’t a good enough role structure to make small group content as engaging and tactical as it needs to be.
I think Anet’s “dungeon problem” is the single biggest issue that drove large numbers of players out of the game not long after launch. They just didn’t execute well enough in getting rid of the trinity to make small-group content feel engaging. They blamed the dungeon team, when it was really more of a profession design issue. They’ve improved it steadily since launch, but it’s sort of too little and too late.
They need to really reinvest in 5-man content, not just by adding new fractals every once in a while but also by releasing new world dungeons and revamping old ones periodically as well, and also by doing everything they can to support the concept of “roles” in team play- support/heals, threat aggregation, control/AOE, and single target burst.
Bottom line is, you have to have a functional role system in an MMO. It doesn’t need to be a WoW-style hard trinity, but you have to create a situation where players feel like they’re contributing something both unique and significant to the group.
Serious question here, since I’m not a dungeon person.
Why aren’t fractals considered a dungeon? They’re both 5 man instanced content where you beat a boss and have a bit of story.
They are. They just, IMO, aren’t enough on their own. Having one super dungeon that sits in the main player hub isn’t going to compensate for having a lot of other large, thematic world dungeons that players can venture out to.
With that said, like I said above, it’s less about the dungeons themselves and more about how the professions work in PvE. There simply isn’t a good enough role structure to make small group content as engaging and tactical as it needs to be.
I completely disagree on the need for roles. Forcing players to suddenly play a specific role after 4 years of being able to play the way they like would drive more players away than bring in. After ele was forced into the support/healer role I completely stopped playing pvp. The game was marketed for “play your way” and “no need for designated roles” which was one of its largest draws and what made it stand out. GW2 is already headed down this path but then I don’t see any of my friends left playing it either.
I think Anet’s “dungeon problem” is the single biggest issue that drove large numbers of players out of the game not long after launch. They just didn’t execute well enough in getting rid of the trinity to make small-group content feel engaging. They blamed the dungeon team, when it was really more of a profession design issue. They’ve improved it steadily since launch, but it’s sort of too little and too late.
They need to really reinvest in 5-man content, not just by adding new fractals every once in a while but also by releasing new world dungeons and revamping old ones periodically as well, and also by doing everything they can to support the concept of “roles” in team play- support/heals, threat aggregation, control/AOE, and single target burst.
Bottom line is, you have to have a functional role system in an MMO. It doesn’t need to be a WoW-style hard trinity, but you have to create a situation where players feel like they’re contributing something both unique and significant to the group.
Serious question here, since I’m not a dungeon person.
Why aren’t fractals considered a dungeon? They’re both 5 man instanced content where you beat a boss and have a bit of story.
They are. They just, IMO, aren’t enough on their own. Having one super dungeon that sits in the main player hub isn’t going to compensate for having a lot of other large, thematic world dungeons that players can venture out to.
With that said, like I said above, it’s less about the dungeons themselves and more about how the professions work in PvE. There simply isn’t a good enough role structure to make small group content as engaging and tactical as it needs to be.
I completely disagree on the need for roles. Forcing players to suddenly play a specific role after 4 years of being able to play the way they like would drive more players away than bring in. After ele was forced into the support/healer role I completely stopped playing pvp. The game was marketed for “play your way” and “no need for designated roles” which was one of its largest draws and what made it stand out. GW2 is already headed down this path but then I don’t see any of my friends left playing it either.
No, but see – you can’t get away from roles, period. The problem is that with “no roles”, you end up with only one role – DPS. Whether people are able to admit it or not, this makes the game very strategically unengaging when it comes to small group content, and small group content is the glue that holds MMOs together. I promise you that this is by far the #1 reason that players dropped off in large numbers shortly after launch.
I’m not saying the game needs WoW’s trinity. I think Anet was right to kick it to the curb, but that doesn’t eliminate the need for different types of specialization to make team play tactical and interesting. It’s not about shoehorning an entire class into a single, specific role. Nobody is arguing that’s how it should work. It’s about providing opportunities for different types of synergy-driven gameplay. Everyone should do a little of everything, but certain things should be heavily emphasized within different builds. There should be ways to build into total support/healing and contribute in a significant way to parties. They’ve been gradually moving in the right direction since HoT, but there’s just a lot more refinement that needs to be done.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
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Personally I would like to see enemies that require different sorts of specializations in order to kill them. Like with Triple Trouble you need condi damage to take out husks, perhaps other portions of fights that require stealth, still others that require heavy DPS, and healing skills that can be shared team-wide on every class so that no one has to be a dedicated healer, and any class can have a role in team play, in other words designing healing skills in such a way that players have to sacrifice other skills to maximize healing, making their spot into a dedicated healer. You could even design certain fights to be optimized with minions and pets so that rangers and necromancers would be more viable in new dungeons and raids. I am far from an expert in balance or in how these things are designed, but it just seems to me that every class should have a role so that they have a place in team play.
Still remember fondly how city of heroes did it with buffers, debuffers, control, tanks and dps.
Say what you want but GW2 is only got off to such a good start due to gw1 and yes even I prefer GW1 to this game as nothing like GW1 is currently on the market. It was a unique game with a unique flavor.
A GW3 would have to rely on gw2 as gw2 relied on gw3. You really don’t see many MMOs going into a third iteration they typically die at the second.
So many abandoned systems in this game and a real imbalance in the reward structure. They start something new and let the old rot and currently I see no difference now. We are still on a raid kick and the game has grown more toxic. More gated and elite the toxic nature of esports couple with the toxic nature of raids and decayed modes and classes means the gw brand probably ends here so I wouldn’t get my hopes up at all for a
GW3.
I agree this game had all the ground work to be epic up there with the other top MMO with millions of players and no need for LFG and Guilds to get anything done. The turning point that I and many people have noticed and still holds this game back is esports.
tl;dr
Very “mature” contribution to the topic. Kids these days seem to have zero patience.
Anyway, back on track. I agree that the fact that roles have been completely abolished for GW2, then somewhat gradually re-introduced under a guise (for instance Elementalist healer), is posing a problem and much dismay.
The reason GW2 doesn’t have at least a loose role-structure is the reason why I quit soon after release (and many of my former GW1 buddies as well, who have not returned to date) and then didn’t touch the game for more than four years. I was still mentally stuck in the GW1 profession structure (with class combinations etc.) and therefore rejected GW2.
Now, obviously, after a long time, I made peace with the fact that there were no more specified profession roles and class combinations. I started enjoying the game for what it was. Then came HoT and with it the Druid and Raids, the latter with the need for a healer/support class. That’s when I was reminded of my initial criticism of the game. I didn’t (and still don’t) understand why ArenaNet paddled back, once realizing that healer support makes sense, and thus had to pervert other professions into healer roles instead of having a Monk class in the game to begin with. Monks can be damage dealers (smiter, anyone?) as well as healers, so there was no need to complete deny them their existance in GW2. I refuse to pervert my Ranger into a healer role, sorry.
GW1 was good for a reason, and that reason was having roles, regardless of how much better, diverse and more exciting GW2 is in its movement mechanics, content etc. So, bottom line: I agree with many on here that roles are needed to a certain extent, and the solution is not to force professions into roles they weren’t meant for.
P.S. Also, yes, PvE content for small groups in terms of dungeons is sorely being ignored (diminishing the rewards for them didn’t help either). And no, Fractals and Dungeons are not the same thing, for a variety of reasons — one being that Fractals require Agony Resistance which is hard to acquire for casual players (and once you have it you need to stick to that one character, which makes it a very boring experience in the long run), another being that Fractals are shorter and feel repetitive quickly. So, firing the Dungeon team was not a smart move, I would have loved to see new Dungeons pop up with new content instead of Raids.
(edited by Ashantara.8731)
tl;dr
Very “mature” contribution to the topic. Kids these days seem to have zero patience.
Anyway, back on track. I agree that the fact that roles have been completely abolished for GW2, then somewhat gradually re-introduced under a guise (for instance Elementalist healer), is posing a problem and much dismay.
The reason GW2 doesn’t have at least a loose role-structure is the reason why I quit soon after release (and many of my former GW1 buddies as well, who have not returned to date) and then didn’t touch the game for more than four years. I was still mentally stuck in the GW1 profession structure (with class combinations etc.) and therefore rejected GW2.
Now, obviously, after a long time, I made peace with the fact that there were no more specified profession roles and class combinations. I started enjoying the game for what it was. Then came HoT and with it the Druid and Raids, the latter with the need for a healer/support class. That’s when I was reminded of my initial criticism of the game. I didn’t (and still don’t) understand why ArenaNet paddled back, once realizing that healer support makes sense, and thus had to pervert other professions into healer roles instead of having a Monk class in the game to begin with. Monks can be damage dealers (smiter, anyone?) as well as healers, so there was no need to complete deny them their existance in GW2. I refuse to pervert my Ranger into a healer role, sorry.
GW1 was good for a reason, and that reason was having roles, regardless of how much better, diverse and more exciting GW2 is in its movement mechanics, content etc. So, bottom line: I agree with many on here that roles are needed to a certain extent, and the solution is not to force professions into roles they weren’t meant for.
P.S. Also, yes, PvE content for small groups in terms of dungeons is sorely being ignored (diminishing the rewards for them didn’t help either). And no, Fractals and Dungeons are not the same thing, for a variety of reasons — one being that Fractals require Agony Resistance which is hard to acquire for casual players (and once you have it you need to stick to that one character, which makes it a very boring experience in the long run), another being that Fractals are shorter and feel repetitive quickly. So, firing the Dungeon team was not a smart move, I would have loved to see new Dungeons pop up with new content instead of Raids.
There does need to be a monk class that really emphasizes healing and support, but they shouldn’t be the only class that is capable of it.
And, yes, I agree that their abandonment of traditional dungeons rather than reinvesting in them was a terrible, terrible strategic move. FotM is nice but it does not and never will carry all the weight of all other potential world dungeons with lower entry barriers and expansive, cohesive themes.
If not for the demand of dungeon tokens, I would have made a path one time and then abandoned it completely. Once i have unraveled a story, i think of it fondly or not and then leave it behind me to the next story. But I know where you are coming from, a consistent story in Dungeon form would have also been nice.
I personally would transfer the oldest dungeon comletely into a set of fractals once in a few months, kill it´s inherent problems(replace dungeon tokens, make stacking not a viable tactic, etc etc…) and place a new dungeon in the map where the ls took place from where the dungeon is from.
Why?
Because it is the innate purpose of fractals, make players replay stuff from old ls. It does not block the lore and would even enable old maps to evolve too. I would also turn the character story into fractals to enable GW2 to introduce new races and classes without giving them so much of a background barrier. and yes, the new dungeon would have to have speaking voices too. But you don´t have to hire expensive Mark Hamil for your Joker, mind you.^^
For some reason, this solution is not particularly well liked. People obviously prefer to see how Logan and Rhytlock go on each others throats for the umpteenth time in videoform, so i am actually clueless for a good solution for this massive problem.^^
Kids these days seem to have zero patience.
Thanks for calling me a kid, actually I am 1 year old.
Anyway as a GW1 first day player I have waited more than enough for GW2 and I can remember watching the manifesto and then GW2 release happened.
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Say what you want but GW2 is only got off to such a good start due to gw1 and yes even I prefer GW1 to this game as nothing like GW1 is currently on the market. It was a unique game with a unique flavor.
A GW3 would have to rely on gw2 as gw2 relied on gw3. You really don’t see many MMOs going into a third iteration they typically die at the second.
So many abandoned systems in this game and a real imbalance in the reward structure. They start something new and let the old rot and currently I see no difference now. We are still on a raid kick and the game has grown more toxic. More gated and elite the toxic nature of esports couple with the toxic nature of raids and decayed modes and classes means the gw brand probably ends here so I wouldn’t get my hopes up at all for a
GW3.I agree this game had all the ground work to be epic up there with the other top MMO with millions of players and no need for LFG and Guilds to get anything done. The turning point that I and many people have noticed and still holds this game back is esports.
I think you got some of your facts wrong. ‘’Top MMO with millions of players’‘, aside from WoW no MMORPG has millions of players. In fact GW2 currently is one of the top 3-4 MMO’s popularity-wise in the west and has been since release.
One thing that people simply refuse to believe is that the MMORPG market is dying. It is back to where it was before WoW, a niche genre with no bigger playerbases. WoW and FFXIV, these are by far the two most popular MMORPG’s currently. Alongside GW2 and ESO maybe, they make the MMO’s with decently active playerbases.
There is no MMORPG with millions of players. People are way more interested in MOBA’s nowadays or simply playing MMO-grinding-simulators like Destiny or the division. I highly doubt AAA developers will be interested in creating expensive MMO’s inthe near future, at least not themepark MMO’s. We will probably see more sandbox MMO’s in the future but I doubt traditional MMORPG’s will ever rise again.
(edited by nGumball.1283)