Guild Wars 2

I promised myself I would keep my “GW2 vs WoW” thoughts to myself while in these forums, but the more I play GW2, the more I miss some of the environments in WoW (though I must mention that after all the changes made to WoW since Wrath of the Lich King, I definitely prefer GW2 overall. I also no longer have the time for subscription-based video games).

Anyway, to get straight to the point: I feel that WoW had and still has a much greater variety of environments in its world compared to GW2. Each map in GW2 that’s within a given region doesn’t change too much from the map before, it simply gets more complicated and more “intense” (ex: Shiverpeaks maps, from lowest level map to highest). The variety isn’t complex enough.

When Dry Top and Silverwastes were introduced in Living World, before I stepped into them, I felt excited at the prospect of finally seeing a desert in GW2, since the desert clearly marked on the world map isn’t accessible in PVE. Much to my dismay, both new maps didn’t feel very “desert-y” to me. They were mostly rocky and felt very linear. Compare that to WoW maps such as Tanaris and Silithus. Some may consider them monotnous, but I enjoyed them because they really felt like true deserts.

Why can’t GW2 have true deserts? Or true deciduous forests, with tightly-packed trees? (Granted, most video games don’t tend to have many “true” forests in them, for whatever reason.) Or how about environment types that haven’t been seen in the game yet? I just feel so…bored…with GW2’s maps, even though I enjoy playing the game. It gets quite depressing, and DT, SW, and HoT maps just are not what I was expecting.

NOTE: I realize that Elder Scrolls Online has environments more like what I’m referring to but, again, I find GW2 to be the easiest game to hop in and play, so I therefore spend most of my online gaming time in GW2.

I’m a bit surprised that someone would call the Silverwastes “linear.”

Well… I wouldn’t call silverwastes a desert. Wait till you get to play in Crystall desert instead or play GW1 and visit crystal desert to see a preview of it there. Silverwastes is not the ordinary desert, it is like comparing grandconyon with Sahara desert.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Well… I wouldn’t call silverwastes a desert. Wait till you get to play in Crystall desert instead or play GW1 and visit crystal desert to see a preview of it there. Silverwastes is not the ordinary desert, it is like comparing grandconyon with Sahara desert.

Sadly, I am not the type of player to play WvW/PvP. I’d rather there be a true desert for PVE that can be explored and have quests in. I just mentioned SW because it and DT have the most “desertish” feeling out of the PVE maps, which is a bit sad IMO.

ekarat.1085:

I’m a bit surprised that someone would call the Silverwastes “linear.”

Maybe that wasn’t the right word to use, exactly. What I mean is that whenever I go into SW, I don’t feel an urge to explore. I feel like I am taking these set paths that will either lead me onward or to a dead-end, but it doesn’t feel like a natural environment, feels way too artificial (as in, it is obvious that it’s a map in a video game). That’s why I like the desert maps in WoW, since they feel like actual deserts, wide open with points of interest scattered about. SW and DT both feel like a struggle to just get to the next location (and also, DT and HoT maps just feel like one big JP, which is also not what I would be expecting from new maps initially).

Just as a small point: Sand covers only a small fraction of deserts on Earth, so you should expect to see a lot of rock when traveling through one.

Moyayuki.3619:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Well… I wouldn’t call silverwastes a desert. Wait till you get to play in Crystall desert instead or play GW1 and visit crystal desert to see a preview of it there. Silverwastes is not the ordinary desert, it is like comparing grandconyon with Sahara desert.

Sadly, I am not the type of player to play WvW/PvP. I’d rather there be a true desert for PVE that can be explored and have quests in. I just mentioned SW because it and DT have the most “desertish” feeling out of the PVE maps, which is a bit sad IMO.

Why do you bring up pvp/wvw ? He was referring maps from Guild wars campaign located in the desert.

flog.3485:

Moyayuki.3619:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Well… I wouldn’t call silverwastes a desert. Wait till you get to play in Crystall desert instead or play GW1 and visit crystal desert to see a preview of it there. Silverwastes is not the ordinary desert, it is like comparing grandconyon with Sahara desert.

Sadly, I am not the type of player to play WvW/PvP. I’d rather there be a true desert for PVE that can be explored and have quests in. I just mentioned SW because it and DT have the most “desertish” feeling out of the PVE maps, which is a bit sad IMO.

Why do you bring up pvp/wvw ? He was referring maps from Guild wars campaign located in the desert.

Because the other suggestion was Crystal Desert, which I hear is PvP or WvW, correct? (Also, I don’t own GW1 and can only focus on one MMO at once.)

No, Desert Borderlands =/= Crystal Desert.

Crystal Desert is a true desert to the southeast of Tyria, bordering with Elona, another continent. I’m actually unclear on this, but the Crystal Desert is mechanically part of Tyria, and lore-wise part of Elona. Something like that.

It has dunes, rocks, and long-abandoned desert towns. You’d like it. Can’t wait to visit it in GW2…

You haven’t seen a “true desert” yet because there are not desert zones currently in the game.

The Magumma Wastes areas (Silverwastes and Dry Top) aren’t a desert as much as they are a large mesa formation in the middle of the jungle. They have a very similar took to how this area of the world was presented in the first game.

Do a google search for “GW1 Ventari’s Refuge” and “GW1 Crystal Desert” for reference.

That said, I think the post-release maps have done a great job to attempting to differentiate themselves, though the release era maps can feel a little samey at times. Especially the shiverpeaks maps. Kryta used to have this issue, which was, as I recall, one of the main reasons they did the whole nightmare tower in kessex in the first place, so they could revamp Kessex so it felt less like Queensdale.

Perhaps in the future we’ll see these sort of changes hit some of the other release era maps that are overly similar.

PopeUrban.2578:

You haven’t seen a “true desert” yet because there are not desert zones currently in the game.

The Magumma Wastes areas (Silverwastes and Dry Top) aren’t a desert as much as they are a large mesa formation in the middle of the jungle. They have a very similar took to how this area of the world was presented in the first game.

Do a google search for “GW1 Ventari’s Refuge” and “GW1 Crystal Desert” for reference.

That said, I think the post-release maps have done a great job to attempting to differentiate themselves, though the release era maps can feel a little samey at times. Especially the shiverpeaks maps. Kryta used to have this issue, which was, as I recall, one of the main reasons they did the whole nightmare tower in kessex in the first place, so they could revamp Kessex so it felt less like Queensdale.

Perhaps in the future we’ll see these sort of changes hit some of the other release era maps that are overly similar.

Although, the last thing I want to see happen is another Kessex fiasco where there’s destruction everywhere ugly-ing up the place. I’m really getting tired of the fact that ANet hasn’t made a lore decision to finally clean it up.

Sure, the new maps do differentiate themselves from core Tyria…but it’s not my cup of tea. Annoying, powerful mobs clogging up the roads, a perpetual jumping puzzle everywhere you go, things being locked behind meta events, etc. Even then, I don’t think there’s enough GOOD variety in GW2’s environments. The only variety I’ve seen is the annoying kind, IMO.

What you need to remember is that the zone maps are condensed in scale compared to what it would be in “reality.” If you expand the maps to a realistic size, going from say, DR to LA would take days or weeks to get there, not 20 minutes or so.

Moyayuki.3619:

PopeUrban.2578:

You haven’t seen a “true desert” yet because there are not desert zones currently in the game.

The Magumma Wastes areas (Silverwastes and Dry Top) aren’t a desert as much as they are a large mesa formation in the middle of the jungle. They have a very similar took to how this area of the world was presented in the first game.

Do a google search for “GW1 Ventari’s Refuge” and “GW1 Crystal Desert” for reference.

That said, I think the post-release maps have done a great job to attempting to differentiate themselves, though the release era maps can feel a little samey at times. Especially the shiverpeaks maps. Kryta used to have this issue, which was, as I recall, one of the main reasons they did the whole nightmare tower in kessex in the first place, so they could revamp Kessex so it felt less like Queensdale.

Perhaps in the future we’ll see these sort of changes hit some of the other release era maps that are overly similar.

Although, the last thing I want to see happen is another Kessex fiasco where there’s destruction everywhere ugly-ing up the place. I’m really getting tired of the fact that ANet hasn’t made a lore decision to finally clean it up.

Sure, the new maps do differentiate themselves from core Tyria…but it’s not my cup of tea. Annoying, powerful mobs clogging up the roads, a perpetual jumping puzzle everywhere you go, things being locked behind meta events, etc. Even then, I don’t think there’s enough GOOD variety in GW2’s environments. The only variety I’ve seen is the annoying kind, IMO.

Sounds like you won’t be happy no matter what they do TBH.

Aidan Savage.2078:

What you need to remember is that the zone maps are condensed in scale compared to what it would be in “reality.” If you expand the maps to a realistic size, going from say, DR to LA would take days or weeks to get there, not 20 minutes or so.

I wasn’t suggesting they make the environments “to scale”, just that there be more variety of environments (like a sandy desert or a dense forest).

Hopefully they’ll extend the maps into the areas that in Guild Wars 1 had these environments. Those maps are east and south of where we are now.

Crystal Desert and Echovald Forest

@Moyayuki Several things

1 – “most video games don’t tend to have many “true” forests in them, for whatever reason.” – Its not “for whatever reason”. Its because these “true forests” you are talking about, with closely packed trees everywhere, are impossible to navigate in a videogame setting. How can you even fight something without AOEs if it steps 3 inches to its left and is behind a tree, again. Its also impossible to move through. And just an FYI, forests with closely packed trees aren’t true forests. Young forests are the ones with close packed trees. True, old growth forests are populated with massive trees and not much in between them, and because of their size they are pretty well spaced usually.

2 – SW and DT don’t feel like deserts. That’s fine, they aren’t a desert environment anyway.

3 – Maps aren’t open ended enough for you. Ummm have you even been in a Kryta, Maguuma Jungle, or Orr map? Just because they aren’t desert themed doesn’t change the fact that these are vast open ended maps with lots of fairly randomly placed POI in them to discover. This was your chief point when comparing WoW maps with GW2 maps.

This honestly sounds like you just wanted to complain so you picked the first thing that came to mind

Moyayuki.3619:

Aidan Savage.2078:

What you need to remember is that the zone maps are condensed in scale compared to what it would be in “reality.” If you expand the maps to a realistic size, going from say, DR to LA would take days or weeks to get there, not 20 minutes or so.

I wasn’t suggesting they make the environments “to scale”, just that there be more variety of environments (like a sandy desert or a dense forest).

The condensed nature of the zones make it harder to do so. Additionally, the climate of the game world makes some things impossible as well. Further, the need for players to actually navigate and PLAY the game in such environments also limit it. For example, the early areas of Caledon Forest are the “dense forest” you want. Pretty sure Drytop and Silverwastes also qualify as a sandy desert too.

OriOri.8724:

@Moyayuki Several things

1 – “most video games don’t tend to have many “true” forests in them, for whatever reason.” – Its not “for whatever reason”. Its because these “true forests” you are talking about, with closely packed trees everywhere, are impossible to navigate in a videogame setting. How can you even fight something without AOEs if it steps 3 inches to its left and is behind a tree, again. Its also impossible to move through. And just an FYI, forests with closely packed trees aren’t true forests. Young forests are the ones with close packed trees. True, old growth forests are populated with massive trees and not much in between them, and because of their size they are pretty well spaced usually.

2 – SW and DT don’t feel like deserts. That’s fine, they aren’t a desert environment anyway.

3 – Maps aren’t open ended enough for you. Ummm have you even been in a Kryta, Maguuma Jungle, or Orr map? Just because they aren’t desert themed doesn’t change the fact that these are vast open ended maps with lots of fairly randomly placed POI in them to discover. This was your chief point when comparing WoW maps with GW2 maps.

This honestly sounds like you just wanted to complain so you picked the first thing that came to mind

I was not complaining for complaining’s sake – I clearly stated how I’ve played MMOs before that had zones that really “spoke” to me, but that I play GW2 because it’s really the most fun MMO to play. I also said “for whatever reason” because, not being a techy person, I can’t attest to the reasons that thicker forests tend not to be be made in video games.

When I say “true” forests, I’m just referring to how a lot of forests in the real world have a bit more density than what’s shown in GW2. No where did I suggest that the trees should be so close that no one can move.

They are the closest to a “desert” zone in the game, which makes really want to see a more desert setting someday. I was using some maps from WoW as examples of what I find interesting.

Where did I say that the maps weren’t “open ended”? I did mention the desert maps in WoW feeling more like deserts due to their open nature, but that’s the only instance of mentioning such a phrase. (“Open-ended”, specifically, sounds to me like a region that isn’t blocked by loading zones, which is not what I was talking about).

WoW maps made me suffer hours of horrible monotony. Please don’t make GW2 maps be anything like that.

Ardid.7203:

WoW maps made me suffer hours of horrible monotony. Please don’t make GW2 maps be anything like that.

What they could have done, was made each POI or Vista an instanced zone so that you could learn more about that area. Sadly, that’d have been a looooooot of dev time to do, given the number of POIs and Vistas there are.

Greener.6204:

Just as a small point: Sand covers only a small fraction of deserts on Earth, so you should expect to see a lot of rock when traveling through one.

Exactly. I grew up in the American Southwest, so Silverwastes does match my idea of desert.

I minored in geography, my problem with the maps in GW2 isn’t the maps themselves. They are beautifully rendered in my opinion. My problem with the geography is the way that each map is separated from the other. Regions do not come in neat little squares and rectangles . There is no way that the geography looks natural when you look at the world map. Regions are usually separated by large bodies of water, rivers, glaciers, deserts, and mountains. In Tyria every region is surrounded by mountains. It is frankly odd. I get why they did it that way, but part of me is wondering if they could have figured out some other way to form the boundaries of these maps. Dragon Stand and Tangled Depths aren’t like this, at least. Tangled Depths is probably the best map as far as natural map demarcation

Ophidia Moonstone.2587:

I minored in geography, my problem with the maps in GW2 isn’t the maps themselves. They are beautifully rendered in my opinion. My problem with the geography is the way that each map is separated from the other. Regions do not come in neat little squares and rectangles . There is no way that the geography looks natural when you look at the world map. Regions are usually separated by large bodies of water, rivers, glaciers, deserts, and mountains. In Tyria every region is surrounded by mountains. It is frankly odd. I get why they did it that way, but part of me is wondering if they could have figured out some other way to form the boundaries of these maps. Dragon Stand and Tangled Depths aren’t like this, at least. Tangled Depths is probably the best map as far as natural map demarcation

Exactly. Every time I open world map and see all these zones… it feels so… strange. In game itself you wouldn’t notice, but on map it’s just weird. Overall I really like map of Tyria, it feels diverse, there are many places yet to discover and rediscover. The only problem is.. it doesn’t feel real. Because of straight mini mountain ranges going into right angles everywhere…