Guild Wars 2

Warning: This has unfortunately become a big wall of text. I have done my best to structure it so people have an easier time reading it.

Dear ArenaNet, dear fellow GW2 Players,

As a die hard GW1 Fan, having spent thousands of hours in the game, I have been very excited for GW2. The Manifesto sounded great, every new feature they presented promised to be as awesome as the next, and having seen the first ingame videos I immediately prepurchased the game. My expectations were incredibly high, and,
after playing the betas, I couldn’t believe that they were actually exceeded. The game felt fresh, it was incredibly fun to play, and had lots of new interesting things in it. After that experience and my trust in ArenaNet as a development team (as they have already created the greatest onlinegame imo), I have already planned my next few gaming months (or even years?) in this game after waiting for it such a long time.

Anyway, enough with the emotional drama, I’ll get right to the point here and try to explain my feelings to the game as good as I possibly can. I really have high respect for ANet and I want to see this game succeed in every way possible, making every other MMO look like trash compared to it, so this isn’t just me bashing the game, it’s what I (and many of my guildmates) personally see as a necessity for the game to fulfill its potential. Now don’t get me wrong, I love the game as it is right now very much and don’t regret buying it at all, I just don’t see it fulfilling its potential. I will not even dive into things such as story quests and hearts being boring and events repeating themselves as all those things aren’t as important for the long term success of an MMO.

• Right now, what I believe is a big problem, is the lack of motivation after leveling one character to 80.

Now don’t attack me with the “theres no endgame” speech, I know that very well. However, as this game is following the same principles as it’s predecessor in this area, the motivation stops after 80.
In most other (successful) MMOs, you always have a self made goal that keeps you going. Reaching max level is only one of those goals. In WoW e.g., for most people, it’s becoming a slave of the gear treadmill so you keep getting stronger. In some other games, GW1 e.g., it’s to become rich and/or have the shiniest Items. Or becoming a feared PvP player, playing HA all day long just so you get that next title and emote, just to finally be good enough to enter the glorious Hall of Heroes. Or PvPing to get your guild to the top of the rankings. Yes, to achieve most of these things you have to essentially grind or play a lot, but still, it keeps you motivated and the closer you come to achieving one of those goals the more fun the game gets. Whether that be becoming better or richer or whatever. Now to why I think GW2 fails in creating/leading to such self made goals.

Many are probably going on their hunt for better weapons/legendarys as soon as they hit 80. But then again, where is the point? I’ve seen some characters with legendary weapons already, problem is, they don’t really stand out that much. They were frustrated that they couldn’t really show off their awesome gear. There is no inspect feature. You need hundreds of hours to get the next legendary set, for nothing really. Heck, why isn’t there even a way to see the HP of allies/enemies? Why in gods name is that hidden? Things like these really supress the virtual “kitten comparison”, which essentially is a major point in MMOs.

• Dungeons aren’t fun.

They’re way too hard on explo mode and the reward is way too little for the effort and repair costs. I understand you want them to be hard, but dying to every second mob and basically making it impossible to play with pugs just isn’t fun. They feel more like a hard chore than a challenging, fun part of the game. Of course, as always, opinions differ on this matter, however I couldn’t find one single player who really thought explorable mode dungeons were really fun and rewarding. Having to constantly keep an eye on the battlefield to dodge every possible threat, to keep kiting the entire boss fight while autoattacking and to constantly try to keep up those boons just to survive just isn’t as fun. It may be slightly more action-oriented that in other games, however it just burns you out way faster.

[PART 2]

• Alright, so let’s take a look at PvP you say, since so many people say GW is all about the PvP.

Well, disappointingly, I have found that the current sPvP Conquest mode also isn’t fun in the long run either.

There’s just no motivation for becoming better. I mean why would I? So I can play tournaments where still nobody will know my name? So I have better achievementsymbol in the character selection screen? I don’t know how you guys think about this, but as a skill based game where good gear doesn’t get your virtual erection going, I fail to see what does in this matter. GW1 did a good job at that with more obvious ranks, nice emotes, broadcasting your guildsname after hoh win, ladders etc. (later more on that)
Tournaments and the current maps are really fun for a quick match for the lulz, but other than that, I don’t see why I should be investing so much time in becoming better. Only having one PvP mode also isn’t anything for the bright mass. Sure, some might like Conquest mode (I do too), but it’s just not enough for me coming from GW1. Whats with the good old deathmatch, CTF, King of the Hill, TA, Zaishen, …? Why are we kind of being forced to capture points when we just feel like bashing other players? Why can’t I open a custom PvP match with my friends, as it was easily possible in GW1 Guildhalls e.g.? Just to practice and try out new builds, we would like to be able to do duels, 2v2, 1v3, whatever we like basically.
Why do I have to get randomly put into a team I don’t like to be in because my friends landed in the other team?
I don’t know what you were thinking here. It’s quite a fresh way of PvP in MMOs, making it more like an FPS

game, however, quite a few old GW1 fans are probably completely disappointed in it. Where did bodyblocking go?

Where are maps with 3 teams on them? Builds accustomed for the entire team, spikes, pressures, etc.?
Sometimes I have a hard time believing the same team that was responsible for HA, GvG etc. was working on this one.

• On to WvW.

This part of the game I have to actually really praise. I haven’t played DAoC so it’s completely new to me, however I do love it. Sure, most of the time it’s just zerging around but I guess thats part the mode. It really feels nice and well made. However, I’ve come to realize that the whole game seems to be designed around WvW. No tanks, healers, everyones bound to their weapons, only being strong in a crowd – that system applies perfectly to WvW (and lots of dynamic events therefore).

• Now to my biggest and most important point.

The lack of build customization and the skill system. Let’s take a look back at GW1 and what made it so interesting: You had hundreds of different skills. Admittedly, some were completely useless, others seemed useless but were actually key to many other skill combinations. The entire
skillsystem had an unbelievable depth. This also added a high amount of replayability. Why did you want to start an assassin? Of course, because they had a powerful shadowform build. A monk? Not only a healer, also a tank and a dmgdealer. An Elementalist? Some awesome farmbuild going on currently. And so on.
In GW2, not so much. Sure, the current system is well thought-through, plays perfectly fine in the beginning.

After being stuck with it for a longer time, you just (or at least I do) kinda get sick of it. The weapon you’re carrying sadly already defines most of your build. 6 is always the same, 7-0 barely even influence the complete build, they’re just some useful additions in most cases. Because of this, every class ends up playing with almost the same build, every warrior is doing the same as the next, every guardian etc. This just burns you out after some time because as I think it doesn’t let you play your own style, it let’s you play the style ArenaNet is telling you to.

[PART 3]

90% of the spells also kind of act the same. It’s usually a combination of:
.) Does damage
.) Inflicts/removes a condition
.) Adds a boon
.) Summon something
.) sometimes with a little extra like teleport, stealth, pull something to you, etc;

Everything thankfully added with an awesome skill animation which makes them more fun at least.
Elite skills became weird. Massive CDs but usually a strong effect. Which isn’t that bad, it’s just I at least would prefer having to choose between more and especially ones with a way smaller CD but therefore also a weaker effect. I’m at least the type of player that barely even uses his elite skill because of the incredible CD, never knowing when it would pay off the most.

In comparison to the depth GW1’s skill system, this is a joke. I know this is just my opinion, but I really think that ArenaNet has sucked up the life and fun of the skills in this game just to have a better control of balance.

Whats the point of even grouping up in the world with a friend? There’s no use. You can’t support each other, cast direct spells on each other, etc. Sure, you are surrounded by plenty of other players, however it feels more like everyone is playing a singleplayer RPG next to each other instead of together.
I wanted to start another character, however I can’t motivate myself to level him up. I don’t know why, I suspect it’s also because of the lack of skills and therefore the lack of fun at finding something new, experimenting and so on. What is there after ~lvl 30 when you’ve unlocked most of your utility skills? What am

I doing all the same hearts and events again for? It just feels like a huge grind the second time.
The first time everything felt new and awesome. I guess this is normal for an MMO, however there should always be some greater reason to level up another character. In most cases that reason is because you want to fully check out another class with all of its skills and stuff. However, in this game, as soon as you’ve unlocked all weapon skills (which is very early), you reach that depressing moment where you’ve already got to
know how your class will feel for the rest of the journey because half your build depends on it. Sure, traits are really well made and all, however they just emphasize the specialization of your build, not the flexibility/variability.

In my opinion (and experience), people always want to believe they’re fulfilling a special/important role, that they’re somehow contributing to others and that they are important. This used to be no problem thanks to the trinity. Now, everyone just
feels like hes just as useful as the next one, no one knows if he is actually playing better/doing more damage/supporting or whatever because the game gives no feedback about such things, doesn’t really allow it.

There’s just not enough room to experiment with your build, both two ends of the spectrum of which is possible in build variability are too close to each other in my opinion. You promised us that “every class could do everything”, when in fact every class is kind of forced to do everything. No one can go full support, full damage, full whatever without losing effectiveness, two or more characters can’t really co-op together that well. And maybe it’s just me but I think that isn’t the most interesting way.

[PART 4]
Something seriously needs to be done about long term motivation in the game. I have to admit I caught myself with similar thoughts to when I played Diablo 3 on Hell. What am I actually doing? What am I playing for? It’s all useless in the end anyway.
Good feedback should always have some (personal) solutions to it. Bear with me these last few lines, I will try to keep it as short as I can and mainly use my reasons from GW1, as it is a game building on a similar foundation, and, after all, from ArenaNet.

What I believe would seriously help it out is enhancing the gameplay (enhancing, not changing!). Even though it might not be as simple to balance, add more skills. Skills with a deaper function. If anyone knows how to do it, it’s you guys. That way people will have way more variability in their builds, which automatically makes them “last” much longer without getting boring. Enable direct ally targeting in some way. Some way to support the people your playing with, not just with a shout/aoe but a direct effect.
Please, add more weaponskills. Best would be a pool of specific weaponskills to choose from, or different skills for each place in the bar. Add more weapons or make them in some way customizable. The current system is fun at the beginning but a pain in thekitten after a while.

The game manages to give you an epic experience when you first discover everything, play it for the first time etc, but fails to keep up that “high” later on when things start repeating themselves.

Add a lot more content for people “done” with the game. Give them more goals. Make the current ones more obvious, more prestigous. Make people able to brag about how cool they look somehow. Many do need that. Thanks to the sidekick system this is not possible during fights, however it should be possible in some way or at least more clear. It still is an MMO and people will always have the desire to be the best/the coolest. Add more PvP modes (personal favor would be GW1 oriented ones like HA. Who doesn’t love to see the name of his guild broadcasted across the entire world eg?). Include ladders and rankings, in WvW as well as sPvP. A spectator mode is needed, more rewarding PvP, a duel function, Guildhalls would be great, an inspect feature.

Give players some more (obvious) goals to reach after 80. Make titles be more obvious. Make it possible to see your own charactername and other’s healthbars while we’re at it. I know you don’t want us to “play the UI”, but these things really aren’t too much.
I don’t want to sound like a demanding brat here, these are just a few of the things I personally believe are necessary for the game to not become boring to a lot of players/players running away. Curious on your guys input on this?

For me, as a GW1 player, I really don’t understand how it could go from multiple Zaishen challenges (and chests), factions and factionrewards, farming awesome titles, plenty of PvP modes, guildhalls, clearing UW, favour of the gods etc etc. to basically just 1 pvp mode and WvW. A pretty big step back in my opinion.
Or maybe this game just isn’t for me and a lot of other GW players that loved it just for those things. Maybe all my criticism here is because I liked other games for what GW2 is not. I don’t know anymore, if so, please tell me that this is all just me and I just don’t get the game, that I don’t get what makes it so addictive.

I’m sorry for the wall of text, I just wanted to get this out there and hopefully some of you and maybe even devs will get to read it. I would really be grateful if at least some points were honestly considered. I am well aware that most of these are intentional design choices, however I think they need either small changes or some definite enhancements. I don’t see myself playing this game for much longer anymore, even though I’m still very enthousiastic about it. It’s still an incredibly great game, however, but could be so much more better.
I hope I gave some constructive feedback here, not like many other “it sucks kthxbye” posts.
I will definitely keep looking in the game every every now and then to see how much will/has changed, however I’m losing interest more and more and I think these are the reasons are why. What are your thoughts/inputs on this? I’m curious to know what users on here think.

Thank you. And sorry for the long text again.

Interesting read.

I have a few problems with your post which I will try to address though.

Firstly you are talking a lot about the reasons or motivations for playing a game and overcomplicated the whole subject a bit imo. There should only be 1 reason. Fun. Not progression, not endless gear treadmills, grinds or long term goals. All these things can help you achieve “fun” but ultimately it’s the gameplay that should keep you playing. However for many people this is not the case.

When I see somebody with a legendary weapon I am amazed by both the animations, art and dedication of the player. I have played over 150 hours myself now which is quite a lot and I’m nowhere near of achieving one. I don’t understand why having an inspect feature or not would make any difference. I am confused to why you praise GW1 on this matter so much which also lacked a similar feature. Yet people farmed obby armor in GW1 to look rich or grinded titles to show dedication without it.

You also reject dungeons as viable content because you found them too difficult. Last night I spend over 2 hours whiping on the explorable version of Arah during one the most challenging and complex bosses I ever faced in an MMO. I didn’t get frustrated or angry but rather saw it as a goal to beat it the next time. This is why having challenging grindable content is important. It’s meant for hardcore players with long-term goals, not people that want a quick easy experience and gear.

Once you completed the storyline of GW1 the game essentially turned into a big grind. GW2 allows you to farm karma, gold and experience by doing absolutely whatever you want. I think you are really underestimating the sheer volume of content in GW2 in comparison to GW1. You give examples like UW or FoW but those were also considered challenging content and weren’t meant for casual players. Same with Zaishen quest which were just repeatable content that you were forced to do for a bit of gold. Where is the “incentive” there?

Anyway there is more we could discuss but it’s quite a wall of text so I’m just going to leave it like this for now.

Edit: Oh one more thing, as the game progresses over the years more weapons and such will be released so more skills and builds will become available. GW1 was getting a bit ridiculous when it came to skills after EoTN and it was nearly impossible to balance. Just keep in mind that GW2 is still very “vanilla” so to say.

At first I was like “this isn’t too bad for a wall of text”. Then I saw there were 5 posts.

I only read the part about the endgame and self-made goals. I think that there are a few goals worth chasing right now at 80 (have you checked the achievements out?). I guess I just assumed that there wouldn’t be that many a couple weeks after launch. I just assumed more would get added over time.

That, and I’m only 42 right now. Just taking my time and having fun with my guildmates.

May I ask what kind of builds you used in GW1 which were apparently, miles ahead of what GW2 offers? Even GvG builds could get pretty watered down to spamming mind blast or doing a single burst combo with eviscerate. Only rangers could get complex with interrupting and such but even there GW2 has similar mechanics with stuns and knockdowns…

Gotta agree with Gank. This game is an infant. Everything that made GW1 great wasn’t there at the launch of Prophecies. Let it grow a bit.

Thank you for your input people. I just wanted to make clear that I know that the game is just really young and content updates will surely come. But after 5 years of development and such a large predecessor I guess I was just expecting too much.

Gank.4957:

May I ask what kind of builds you used in GW1 which were apparently, miles ahead of what GW2 offers? Even GvG builds could get pretty watered down to spamming mind blast or doing a single burst combo with eviscerate. Only rangers could get complex with interrupting and such but even there GW2 has similar mechanics with stuns and knockdowns…

The point that I was trying to make was that you simply had way more variability and options which always kept it interesting. Like you said, you could also make lame and boring builds, but also had the option to make so much else, ranging from lame stuff like necro spikes to more complex ones like ranger spikes, all kind of different balanced builds, contagion, condition over, hex over, healing ball, iway, bunnyway and whatnot.
And also, I just really miss how the entire build was made for the entire team. You could make up self made “roles” like e.g. the ritualist just buffing everyone with the specific weapons if you felt that would turn out effective in the end. You could also just give everyone the same role etc. I don’t know, I just believe you had way more choice and could experiment a lot more than in GW2. Right now merely the choice of your weapon already defines so much..

To the UW/Fiss and dungeon argument: Well I guess you are probably right on the dungeons part. I only did like 10 different runs and every one of them was hard yet there was always a way to win it. However I still believe that they are sometimes not balanced right. Or can you explain to me where exactly the fun lies when your party of five is bashing in against a champion or strong trash mob for minutes? The amount of health many enemies have is beyond ridicoulus in my opinion. I would rather they lasted shorter but made more damage or something because sometimes it just really takes a while to take a mob down just to not even get a single drop.

True – I’ve never played WoW before anyone wheels out the usual responses.

But coming from GW1, which was loaded with features – GW2 just seems empty and vague.

It’s true to say that GW1 evolved over time – from initial rumours to EOTN, there were about 4-5 years of development and new instalments.

Problem is, GW2 has been in development that long – originally being mentioned back in 2007……………………………….and it seems to be lacking most of what made the original title the success it was.

I think the lack of recurring game characters, lack of heroes and henchmen and lack of PvE content once you hit 80 will affect the longevity of the game.

It’s a beautiful game in terms of graphics, and it’s new (and well advertised), so plenty of people are playing it at the moment.

A few months to a year down the line, and I can see many people leaving. Whether that presents a problem depends on how many people decide to stay……………………..it’s easy at the moment to say ’I’ll play forever’ – until you hit level 80, create a few new characters and run out of things to do.

Provieh.9782:

[PART 4]What am I actually doing? What am I playing for? It’s all useless in the end anyway.

That’s it. You got it. Now start having fun.