Guild Wars 2

Sylv.5324:

However, you CAN spec to be useful with heals and mitigation; I set up my mesmer with a healing build, and was actively keeping up players and key NPCs in various events and such. Have kept Grenth from failing several times by keeping Jonez and players up.

At the risk of derailing the thread (!) … is there a build guide for this or did you figure it out? It sounds interesting and a little different.

My outlook on GW2 drastically changed when i switched classes. So my first question would be, did you try anything besides guardian?

There is a huge gap between the depth of classes in this game (which is a bad thing imo). So while one class (profession) can leave you with a feeling of playing a very shallow somewhat boring game other classes are the direct opposite.

While i can understand your statements from the pov of a relatively unexperienced player. I think it wouldve been wise if you played the game alongside someone (or a good guild) with more experience. Its really easy to missunderstand this game.

Dont get me wrong. This game has enough flaws. But esp fromn the pov of a hardcore pvp player like myself, i dont see better alternatives on the market right now.

zenleto.6179:

Sylv.5324:

However, you CAN spec to be useful with heals and mitigation; I set up my mesmer with a healing build, and was actively keeping up players and key NPCs in various events and such. Have kept Grenth from failing several times by keeping Jonez and players up.

At the risk of derailing the thread (!) … is there a build guide for this or did you figure it out? It sounds interesting and a little different.

I’m working on it, but it has to do with the changes to traits, especially down the Inspiration line, with AOE cleanses and heals. It probably would not be necessary in a full zerk dungeon group that knows exactly what it’s doing, but for general PvE (not sure about WvW yet) it’s been interesting. With Mantra of Pain, it’s sort of going back to being a Smite monk. I drop illusions to stack healing aoe regens, can shatter to clear conditions and give myself small heals, and can chain-cast mantra of pain for a steady flow of medium heals. All of them stack up, especially when eles are dropping their aoe heals.

You can’t spike heal anyone but yourself as a mesmer, but it’s very helpful to mitigate steady incoming damage pressure.

I am working on an ascended celestial set for WvW, but I imagine this build would work better with that than the zerk exotics I have now.

I obviously have taken a hit in DPS and had to spec away from Deceptive Evasions, but for the open world especially, or WvW, it’s no big deal, especially if your accessories are berserker (and ascended).

Anyway, I look for where people are going splat, and park there, and just end up like a healing turret— bigger heals for those nearest me, and then regen and cleanses for those meleeing the boss. If I’m meleeing, it just stacks all that healing there. It does make a difference.

Sylv.5324:

zenleto.6179:

Sylv.5324:

However, you CAN spec to be useful with heals and mitigation; I set up my mesmer with a healing build, and was actively keeping up players and key NPCs in various events and such. Have kept Grenth from failing several times by keeping Jonez and players up.

At the risk of derailing the thread (!) … is there a build guide for this or did you figure it out? It sounds interesting and a little different.

I’m working on it, but it has to do with the changes to traits, especially down the Inspiration line, with AOE cleanses and heals. It probably would not be necessary in a full zerk dungeon group that knows exactly what it’s doing, but for general PvE (not sure about WvW yet) it’s been interesting. With Mantra of Pain, it’s sort of going back to being a Smite monk. I drop illusions to stack healing aoe regens, can shatter to clear conditions and give myself small heals, and can chain-cast mantra of pain for a steady flow of medium heals. All of them stack up, especially when eles are dropping their aoe heals.

You can’t spike heal anyone but yourself as a mesmer, but it’s very helpful to mitigate steady incoming damage pressure.

I am working on an ascended celestial set for WvW, but I imagine this build would work better with that than the zerk exotics I have now.

I obviously have taken a hit in DPS and had to spec away from Deceptive Evasions, but for the open world especially, or WvW, it’s no big deal, especially if your accessories are berserker (and ascended).

Very nice. Absolutely right about open world. I have a little Mesmer that needs a little guidance. I might try this as well if you don’t mind.

Trust me, i didnt “misunderstand” the game. I get it. I give credit to the developers for trying to do something different. But for me, there isnt enough here to keep me interested. If i could at the very least earn better pvp gear i would not have posted cause i would be trying to smash people and earn better gear. But when i learned im basically fighting for skins that was the tipping point for me.

I did not try another class. I really wanted to be a guardian and play defensively. My style is im not gonna burst you down but i will wear you out and finish you off when you have nothing left. And that play style just isnt available. All classes are focused around burst.

I did think about playing a necromancer. That class would be alot easier for me to accept cause its meant to be a DPS class and there is no trying to play defensively. Its very clear what your role is. But like i said with the pvp rewards being skins i just dont care enough to try another class.

zenleto.6179:

Sylv.5324:

zenleto.6179:

Sylv.5324:

However, you CAN spec to be useful with heals and mitigation; I set up my mesmer with a healing build, and was actively keeping up players and key NPCs in various events and such. Have kept Grenth from failing several times by keeping Jonez and players up.

At the risk of derailing the thread (!) … is there a build guide for this or did you figure it out? It sounds interesting and a little different.

I’m working on it, but it has to do with the changes to traits, especially down the Inspiration line, with AOE cleanses and heals. It probably would not be necessary in a full zerk dungeon group that knows exactly what it’s doing, but for general PvE (not sure about WvW yet) it’s been interesting. With Mantra of Pain, it’s sort of going back to being a Smite monk. I drop illusions to stack healing aoe regens, can shatter to clear conditions and give myself small heals, and can chain-cast mantra of pain for a steady flow of medium heals. All of them stack up, especially when eles are dropping their aoe heals.

You can’t spike heal anyone but yourself as a mesmer, but it’s very helpful to mitigate steady incoming damage pressure.

I am working on an ascended celestial set for WvW, but I imagine this build would work better with that than the zerk exotics I have now.

I obviously have taken a hit in DPS and had to spec away from Deceptive Evasions, but for the open world especially, or WvW, it’s no big deal, especially if your accessories are berserker (and ascended).

Very nice. Absolutely right about open world. I have a little Mesmer that needs a little guidance. I might try this as well if you don’t mind.

I don’t. Meep me as Sylv.5324 to let me know how it turns out.

Edit: Focus 5 and Disenchanter utility have good synergy with this. Also signet of the ether for the additional regen.

misterDEAN.3027:

Trust me, i didnt “misunderstand” the game. I get it. I give credit to the developers for trying to do something different. But for me, there isnt enough here to keep me interested. If i could at the very least earn better pvp gear i would not have posted cause i would be trying to smash people and earn better gear. But when i learned im basically fighting for skins that was the tipping point for me.

I did not try another class. I really wanted to be a guardian and play defensively. My style is im not gonna burst you down but i will wear you out and finish you off when you have nothing left. And that play style just isnt available. All classes are focused around burst.

I did think about playing a necromancer. That class would be alot easier for me to accept cause its meant to be a DPS class and there is no trying to play defensively. Its very clear what your role is. But like i said with the pvp rewards being skins i just dont care enough to try another class.

Well ofcourse everyone claims they think they know, yet only few actually do.

Yes the infamous gear threadmill like in wow right? Where you get gear but your relatively strenght stays the same (if compared to guys who “cap” every week aswell). So youre basicly farming for skins aswell.

Meanwhile:

- Guys who are new or came back to that game after a break are held back due to a gear difference.
- There is little no to buildvariety. Everyone who plays your spec, plays it the exact same way with the same talents, the same gear, the same gems, reforges, etc.
- Cheaters are dominating the ladders. Boostbuyers interupthackers, profileusers are widespread and not taken care off.
- Bots make up for 75% of the players who play during off hours in BGs.
- Where the only thing you will get is your one piece of gear per week, bit more if youre higher rated.
- Pure focus on weekly caps. Once youre up to par play once a week and see all your teammates logg off again since thats the only reason ppl play that game…to get the weekly cap.
- RBGs are forcefed since they give an absurdly high cap (imagine pvpers who are forced to do wvw to get up to par gear).
- No money, no other rewards, no other goals like the ranks/finishers in spvp.

Wait what? Guardian is perfectly viable and fine as bunker. You still have to use your abbilities and CDs at the right moment to counter burst, remove the right conditions (dots) etc though. If you do you can “tank” two people for quite some time. Seeing how conquest is about point control allowing for well played tanks to tank more people than that would be quite imbalanced.

If you grab a warrior, spec defensively, pick up the right food and gear and go wvw at 80 you can literally tank 3-4 people without a need to actively play your char. If thats what youre after.

misterDEAN.3027:

I can deal with tank and healer not being required for group play. But the fact that all classes are DPS and you cant even play a defensive or healing class is lame. Even if there where tanks and healers, not being able to earn better PVP gear is my biggest gripe. Putting in time for skins is not exciting.

Boons only last a few seconds. It felt silly to spec for something that last a few seconds with long cooldown when i can spec for permanent stat boosts. You can refund trait points. But you can not refund skills you purchased.

You’ve obviously never heard the phrase “Pure Bunker Build” which basically consists of a class wearing nothing but defensive armor in an effort to minimize the damage that they take. Granted said characters do abysmal DPS, but they also take significantly less damage than a “Pure Zerker Build” or “Pure Assassin’s Build” character would take.

Heck, even a “Hybrid Bunker/Zerker Build” would be viable as a means to both do damage and survive longer than a pure DPS build. I mean on my Ranger I wear Berserker Weapons and Armor, while my Trinkets (not counting my Back-Piece) are all Sentinel’s Items. This basically allowed me to be the sole survivor and victor in my groups fight against the final boss of one of the Twilight Arbor Exploreable Path’s (not Aether, and not the one with Spirit Oakhearts swarming the field) earlier today.

And why on earth would you want to refund your skills? Once you hit level 80 you will essentially still be gaining levels beyond level 80, but each time you level up, instead of gaining a new level of power you will be gaining a new skill point. There is a reason that the Legendary Weapons in this game cost a bare minimum of 339 Skill Points in addition to their other ingredients. That reason being that you can essentially get an infinite supply of skill points in this game.

misterDEAN.3027:

A shield is a defensive item but in GW2 its considered a weapon. LOL – thats funny to me. They have zerker spec on the brain and they dont understand defense. They try to include defense elements in the game but they fail miserably cause the way they design the game its more effective to burst down your target than defend.

For reference, Shields in Guild Wars 2 do provide an increase in your Defense Score, which is the same stat that all forms of Armor Items increase. Also if the shield has +Toughness on it it will provide an additional buff to your Armor Score in addition to it’s Defense Score.

Defense + Toughness = Armor

It is your Armor Score that ultimately determines how hard you are hit by any given attack.

misterDEAN.3027:

can reach max level in 2 weeks

Oh well if your really that cut up about being able to reach max level in 2 weeks… then I recommend you go play Perfect World International while refraining from buying anything from the cash shop in that game.

Will take you a decade or more to reach Max Level in that game if you do that.

FirebrandFrog.7603:

Seems like you need to study why the Holy Trinity even works and why GW2 failed so miserably in trying to break it.

PROTIP: You cannot break something that is so core to class interactions. It’s why GW2 barely has any.

kitten , GW1 did “breaking the Trinity” better by letting each class TRULY have different ways to play and even mix professions to really get some crazy builds.

Bull Pocky. The only reason that the so called Holy Trinity is considered “Core” to class interactions is because the very first incarnation of Dungeons and Dragons only featured THREE classes: the Fighter (Tank), Magic-User (DPS), and Cleric (Healer). Anyone who tells you that the Holy Trinity has any other meaning in the gaming world other than that origin within Dungeons and Dragons, doesn’t know diddly squat about Role Playing Games.

Heck, later incarnations of Dungeons and Dragons broke that mold completely. In Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 you have the Maulers (Melee DPS), Healers, Hybrid Healer/Maulers (Druids), Tanks, Nukers (Spell-based DPS), and the Skill-Monkeys. And that isn’t even counting the variations that Tome of Battle threw into the mix. Without having at least a Skill-Monkey, Tank, Healer, and Nuker in your party your group is very likely going to die in D&D 3.5.

misterDEAN.3027:

GW2 completely threw away the idea of defensive and healing class.

Altruistic Healing + Empowering Might Guardian. Water-Spec’ed Dagger/Dagger Elementalist. Both of these are very good healers, especially the Elementalist.

Heck, when it comes to self-heals and survivability, at least in Solo PvE content, the best class in existence is the Minion Master Necromancer spec’ed as follows: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQEQNBmQDbkQrUvWzVjePRIpIaUb6B3AX4gU4epB-jQCBYfERzEEDRjKAO1sIasFTFRjVhET5K1aXCR2bFRrWKgIWGB-e

misterDEAN.3027:

Trust me, i didnt “misunderstand” the game. I get it. I give credit to the developers for trying to do something different. But for me, there isnt enough here to keep me interested. If i could at the very least earn better pvp gear i would not have posted cause i would be trying to smash people and earn better gear. But when i learned im basically fighting for skins that was the tipping point for me.

My question for you, is if PvP worked the way you say you wanted it to work, and you had to play in PvP events in order to earn better PvP Gear Stats… then how would you ever beat the people who already have the best stated gear in PvP due to having played PvP the longest?

The reason sPvP is done the way it is, is so that everyone is on equal footing the entire time. If you want to participate in a form of combat where players are pitted against players, but where you get to bring gear that you have earned through your own hard work, instead of having that gear provided for you at entry, then what you should be doing is playing in World vs. World, not Structured PvP.

And you have yet to answer the question: “Have you tried World vs. World?”

misterDEAN.3027:

I did think about playing a necromancer. That class would be alot easier for me to accept cause its meant to be a DPS class and there is no trying to play defensively. Its very clear what your role is. But like i said with the pvp rewards being skins i just dont care enough to try another class.

I am actually working on turning my Necromancer into my main character. And everything I have seen at the moment seems to indicate that the Necromancer (especially the Minion Master build) is actually the closest thing this game has to a Stone Wall. If your goal is to play a tank, then the Necromancer is the way to go.

(I had to post this where I did because for some reason the forum wouldn’t let me edit it into my previous post)

misterDEAN.3027:

I personally dont believe how romans used shields had any influence on how shields work in game. I doubt they had any thought past how do we make this a DPS item. I think they are just so focused on DPS they dont know what defense is.

Shield Skills:

• Shield Bash – Stuns an opponent. Defensive in the respect that a) while they’re stunned they can’t do anything and b) interrupting an attack. Not to mention bashing with a shield was a tactic used by the Romans.
• Shield Stance – It blocks attacks. Unsure how this isn’t defensive.
• Shield of Judgement – It gives Protection as well as damaging.
• Shield of Absorption – It pushes enemies away and blocks projectiles.
• Magnetic Shield → Magnetic Inversion – Projectile Reflect and pushback.
• Static Shield → Throw Shield – Stuns attackers, dazes everyone it hits when thrown.

Shield Traits for all classes increases Toughness.

Unsure how you see the shield as a DPS weapon, to be honest. Unless you’re definition of ‘defense’ is strictly how much damage the shield can passively reduce, stunning, dazing, knocking back, giving Protection and blocking are all forms of defense.

misterDEAN.3027:

You dont know what i want. I was never a big raider. I would do them once or twice just to experience it. I mainly did PVP. Im not going back to wow. And i dont want a game like wow. I played enough wow. What i want is variety deep customization and strategy. And you wont find that in GW2. All you gotta do is DPS.

In gonna ask you what dungeons have you done so far, because the game doesn’t get deep or challenging until you hit max level. ‘You won’t find x’ statements can’t be made until you’ve actually done everything in the game.

Also, are you implying DDs aren’t deep and doesn’t involve much strategy? As a DD/tank in a decade of MMO playing, I beg to disagree.

Besides that, you aren’t just DDing. You are healing, buffing, debuffing, CCing, all at the same time. Especially as a Guardian. If all you do is just DD, then why should anyone take you over a Warrior, who is superior in almost every way as a DD?

I do agree with him about the lack of defensive builds in the game though. We got a lot of them, but there is barely any content which makes you use them. In fact, that’s a massive problem with the game: you can do everything in the game using one build.

The existence of trinity in a way is a good thing. It force people to play as a team and I think that is really good for MMO. Taking away that and giving everyone the ability to solo, it kinda take away people’s chances to interact with people and thus people seems more apart. The game actually became less connected.

I think you (OP) got the point: while having lots of build options is cool, having no role, since the only role is DPS, makes that useless. Non-vertical progression could have been a good thing, IF the core gameplay was a lot bigger…imho they realized their limits after release…and Ascended stuff and gemstore skins came out.
I liked this game, i wasn’t a Wow player, so this was my first ’’great’’MMO. Now i simply got bored and stopped playing waiting some good updates (i mean…not skins and not cute pets/NPCs, but REAL content, lol!). I would pay for an expansion, sure.
I tried Wow, and found it very disappointing…too static during combat and too boring to level up ’till the cap. No more the genre ppl is asking i think.

PS: I made some examples from another MMO game, the one i’m playing now, about ways of improving the PvE experience, but i got infracted, so i can’t do them anymore i think.