Guild Wars 2

This game has one, terrible, glaring flaw that will always hold it back unless it’s fixed now, before you go releasing new expansion packs, dlc.

The controls are awful in almost every single way.

First, the speed at which you strafe and the speed at which you run forward are different. Strafe speed seems to be either the same or just a tad faster than backpedalling, which is TERRIBLE for the pvp community as it lowers the skill cap greatly. There is almost NO WAY to outplay someone or kite them (without relying exclusively on mobility skills and dodging) as a ranged class. This is unacceptable in a game where dodging and evading enemy attacks is supposed to be important. This game was designed around having no healers, so players NEED to be able to kite properly.

Secondly, and somewhat related, is that momentum is not maintained in mid air. Again, this really lowers the skill cap in pvp because if you try to jump kite in pvp, you slow down to a backpedalling crawl.

Next, we have the terrible skills that halt movement or stop fluidity. I’ll give some examples (I have a greatsword warrior). The second greatsword skill is terribly irritating to use. If you run forward and then press it, your character stops moving, even if you keep holding your movement key down. Instead, the skill should only be usable when standing still. When you move forward and use it while running, it should either not activate or go on cooldown. The skill currently feels clunky because it strips control from your character. Now, the fifth warrior skill is also obnoxious to use. If you try standing around in an open field and using it with no targets, it moves you forward, and it feels clunky because there’s no way to stop it. Now, try using it next to a mob, facing THE OTHER DIRECTION, without the mob targetted. You run to it and there is NO way of cancelling it. A GOOD example of a skill is the 3 skill for the greatsword. It feels fluid and fun to use, as you have complete control of the direction you go in and there’s no windup that forces you to stand still.

Another thing that completely ruins the combat or any hope of having a mid-high skill cap is the fact that your character turns around to hit enemies behind him, when you’re facing in the opposite direction. This is probably the worst design decision I’ve ever seen in an MMO. I was under the impression that the combat was supposed to be more similar to an action game, and instead we get a game where your melee attacks are aimed for you, even after going through the huge amount of effort to let you use skills without targets and let you miss attacks by not actually hitting players.

This is why the pvp community has evaporated. You can’t outskill anyone. You can’t improve on your ability to play the game because the controls are absolutely awful. I recall ArenaNet once saying that players who played FPS or action games would be more familiar with GW2, and they were clearly wrong. It is unacceptable that nothing has been fixed since launch.

Edit: I forgot to mention another thing about the greatsword 2 skill. If you are surrounded by mobs and you want to hit a specific mob in front of you, the skill can turn your around and start swinging at an enemy behind you.

Whaddaya want? I’m Italian!

Well you reference to the greatsword 2 skill is off.

If I was throwing a greatsword I would prolly have one hell of a running start. Plant one foot and let it fly.

No idea how to boomerang it tho.

Alright, well here’s another. In the norn starting zone you can transform into a snow leopard. You CAN"T MOVE while using melee attacks.

Who cares if it’s unrealistic to move while swinging a massive greatsword? The controls don’t feel good. Look at games like God of War. The controls are excellent. That’s what they should be aspiring to. Real action games.

Edit: Also, if you had to plant a foot before using a greatsword skill, you should have to stop moving before you cast, and not have the skill stop you from moving.

Stopped reading at “this game was designed around healers”

Shonie.5297:

Stopped reading at “this game was designed around healers”

I meant “designed around having no healers, so players need to kite”. I’ll edit that.

Start by turning of auto targeting in the options.

That’s cool. Maybe edit some of the other stuff like “gem store crap”, “worst design decision I’ve ever seen in an MMO”, “you can’t outskill anyone”…
because you’re just posting opinion and it’s hard to take what you’re saying seriously as anything other than whining.

Why have you played the game for 2 minutes (enough to not have turned off autotargeting) and are making bold claims about PvP skill caps? Good laugh.

My favorite part was when you tried to validate 100 blades being used while moving as a control limitation. Can we go back to the skill cap thing?

Although I agree with you for the most part, I think you’re over-exaggerating a little… Sure it would be cool to be able to maintain momentum midair, but I wouldn’t really call it something which would increase the skillcap.

Also the The PvP community “evaporated” because of the lack of core features, like a Ladder and a proper soloQ, not because there are a few clunky mobility skills.

Oh and turn off autotargeting in the options, that’s the cause of 2 of the issues you’ve encountered.

superdfc.7925:

First, the speed at which you strafe and the speed at which you run forward are different. Strafe speed seems to be either the same or just a tad faster than backpedalling, which is TERRIBLE for the pvp community as it lowers the skill cap greatly. There is almost NO WAY to outplay someone or kite them (without relying exclusively on mobility skills and dodging) as a ranged class. This is unacceptable in a game where dodging and evading enemy attacks is supposed to be important. This game was designed around having no healers, so players NEED to be able to kite properly.

There are no "ranged" or "melee" professions, merely ranged-oriented, melee-oriented or balanced builds. Dodging in GW2 is not really a dodge (tool for repositioning), but invulnerability frame with built-in repositioning as a bonus. The alternative cost of losing "free" endure pain over relocating to another position is often too great to even consider as viable choice.

Unless game’s controls and character movement are mirrored after TERA or GW2’s Combat Mode AND all ranged skills are converted into skill-shots (from the homing missiles most of them are now), what you’re asking for is a clear bias and advantage for ranged weapons.

In fact I’d argue otherwise, the game should be biased towards the melee game, because ranged weapons are just too easy to use and with little inherent risk, whereas melee-centred setups beg for a predictable and limited build because of the necessary traits and utilities to even lock on your target properly. Flexibility and leeway ranged weapons get is an inherent advantage of it’s own, especially in a ranged-friendly game as this one.

Here’s a compromise I’m willing to accept: all ranged abilities are skill-shots with travel time (even AoE skills), but movement speed debuff "while in combat" is removed. Running forward, strafing and backpedalling speed left unchanged.

superdfc.7925:

Secondly, and somewhat related, is that momentum is not maintained in mid air. Again, this really lowers the skill cap in pvp because if you try to jump kite in pvp, you slow down to a backpedalling crawl.

I’m not against jump-kiting in general, but I have nothing save for bad memories of it’s poor implementation in most other games. What I don’t want to see is jump-kiting being the ultimate, be-all do-all strategy even at the entry skill level of PvP matches.

Unless jump-kiting carries an alternative cost that makes it prohibitive to use or a gamble in many game situations, mindless bunny-hopping is doing very little to increase real skill cap and depth of the game, all the while building a massive entry barrier on the game. Introducing a "resource system" for jumping (a’ala dodge bar) wouldn’t do much to make it skillful either, unless there were inherent penalties for the jumper which the other party could exploit.

A good example of movement control is Planetside 2, moving (and especially jumping) will increase your cone of fire, making your direct fire weapons less accurate as a result (at the same time you’ll put pressure on your opponent by unpredictable movements, possibly forcing them to cancel aim-down-sights mode in order to target you properly again, while eating bullets to the face from your less accurate ADS or hipfire mode). This in turn creates an interesting mechanic, when jumping will earn you an early grave if it’s not utilised properly (alternative cost right here), being a high-level strategy that has it’s uses and pitfalls.

superdfc.7925:

Next, we have the terrible skills that halt movement or stop fluidity. I’ll give some examples (I have a greatsword warrior). The second greatsword skill is terribly irritating to use. If you run forward and then press it, your character stops moving, even if you keep holding your movement key down. Instead, the skill should only be usable when standing still. When you move forward and use it while running, it should either not activate or go on cooldown. The skill currently feels clunky because it strips control from your character. Now, the fifth warrior skill is also obnoxious to use. If you try standing around in an open field and using it with no targets, it moves you forward, and it feels clunky because there’s no way to stop it. Now, try using it next to a mob, facing THE OTHER DIRECTION, without the mob targetted. You run to it and there is NO way of cancelling it. A GOOD example of a skill is the 3 skill for the greatsword. It feels fluid and fun to use, as you have complete control of the direction you go in and there’s no windup that forces you to stand still.

Client-server latency. No character body collision (body-blocking). Invulnerability frames rather than dodging out of the way of attacks even in melee. Hybrid mouse-keyboard controls. These are all issues that you need to be aware of, even before suggesting changes to game controls or HB specifically. Given the design decisions in this game for combat, I find the current responsiveness model of skills superior, because game does the job for you instead of screwing you over with latency and unresponsive skill queueing.

Escape key is for a reason, use it to cancel skills. If HB was reworked the way you want to, you wouldn’t realistically land the skill’s damage between game acknowleding you’re finally stationary, then sending you a packet that you can use HB, then you sending the command to finally use HB on a target which (oh woes!) is no longer stationary, because it just popped a stun-break and moved sideways. Unless we convert all controls to Tera’s model and make even melee attacks essentially "short range, instant skill-shots" that can be readily avoided just by movement, your suggestion is generally speaking bad for the game.

superdfc.7925:

Another thing that completely ruins the combat or any hope of having a mid-high skill cap is the fact that your character turns around to hit enemies behind him, when you’re facing in the opposite direction. This is probably the worst design decision I’ve ever seen in an MMO. I was under the impression that the combat was supposed to be more similar to an action game, and instead we get a game where your melee attacks are aimed for you, even after going through the huge amount of effort to let you use skills without targets and let you miss attacks by not actually hitting players.

Read explanation for HB above, pretty much the same issues here.

superdfc.7925:

This is why the pvp community has evaporated. You can’t outskill anyone. You can’t improve on your ability to play the game because the controls are absolutely awful. I recall ArenaNet once saying that players who played FPS or action games would be more familiar with GW2, and they were clearly wrong. It is unacceptable that nothing has been fixed since launch.

PvP in this game has serious problems on it’s own, the "issues" you highlighted being more of a general game design criticism rather than this game’s potential reachout to global competitive scene of players.

Problems:
a) no solo queue
b) low population (no critical mass) and dysfunctional rating system as a result
c) just one game mode +/- (it’s debatable whether dota’s model of "one map/format to rule them all" is superior choice here; original guild wars at it’s prime had active heroes ascent, guild vs guild, team arena and random arena communities, and there was huge variation of maps and formats within each of these venues on a random or semi-random rotation basis - in GW2 the variation within the format is slowly introduced, but there is only one format of play, conquest-style of map with point capture being the driving element behind it; it’s also debatable whether conquest-style PvP is the pinnacle of skill in this game, I sincerely hope not)
d) dysfunctional targeting system
e) typical game-balance woes, profession design problems

And just for your information:

Guild Wars 1 had no jumping, no dodging. It featured click-to-move, WASD movement on top of it and body-blocking. Nearly everly missile was homing, and yet unlike GW2 they could be evaded by distance and smart movement (instead GW2 almost forces you to preserve a dodge for ranged heavy-hitter; comparably, GW1’s elementalist’s lightning orb required team coordination just to land the skill properly on the target, and it was far from enough to kill it - target had to be stripped of protective enchantments, and enemy healers had to be shut down within the time window of the spike, even then other team members were required to poke the target so it actually dies).

Despite auto-facing the enemy in melee, proper WASD kiting was the difference between winning or losing the match (since you could bump into friendlies to lose your tail, reduce damage greatly by facing your melee aggressor while backpedalling, error or deficiency of one player in a 4- or 8-player team setting was enough to give away the game). There were many more quirks than that, which took years to master, and there were always better players than you. Nearly entire metagame was in the players heads, you could very well watch a match in observer mode and not understand a iota of why players do what they do and win, if you were outside of the particular skill bracket. The frustration of getting facerolled and being unable to fight back (difficulty of analysing what kind of errors your team made, and what kind of edge the opponent really had) was pretty common.

When you look at GW2 system for comparison, you can see it’s contrived; there are many GW1 left-overs that made sense in that game to produce insane skill cap and high-level strategy, but which in GW2 are counter-productive, clunky and illogical with the new movement system. Similarly, it’s difficult to say which game design problems are left-overs, engine limitations or features implemented for more relaxed combat mode and clearer feedback loop to players, even at the cost of game’s potential in competitive play and hardcore PvE design (PvE seems to be one of those niches holding back PvP combat design the most, in their desire to keep controls and rules of both systems very much the same).