Guild Wars 2

I’ve been playing GW2 for a little short of 2 years, and as much as I love this community and this game it seems there are two sides of people;

Those who can’t except the cost due to financial difficulty or lack of information about the expansion to make an educated purchase.

-And-

Blind fans with hair-trigger purchasing mistaking the first group of players for being “Cheap”, “Whiny”, “Entitled”, or “Not Guild Wars 1 players”. This latter group seems to be prominent both in-game and on these forums with their “NO REGRETS YOLO” mentality towards the expansion. The last option which is profoundly hilarious.

Let’s start with saying there’s not even a release date for this game. They could stall and stall for years and you’d be stuck with that purchase.

I’m a person who plays with financial difficulty. I pay roughly 100-120$ a year in gems and I plan to always buy gems. Is it mandatory? No. Should I be at fault for spending money on gems? No. Let me say that I SUPPORT THIS GAME by buying gems THAT’S WHY I DO IT.

So let’s talk about the hard facts expansion. Heart of Thorns has kitten price tag, and comes with nothing. What do we expect to see in Heart of Thorns and get?

• A copy of the Core game that we already own and yet cannot use or give away.
• New sPVP Map
• New WvW Borderland
• New Zones to Explore.
• New Class to play. For Veterans such as myself with 6 slots, all 80s, it will cost us an additional 10$ to create such a character.
• Elite Specilization enabling your new weapon class.
• Gliders and “Mastery” system
• Guild Halls.

So what don’t we know about the expansion, or what don’t we expect to get?

• Unspecified number of Zones to explore. It could be two, five, twenty, forty-eight. As someone who currently has 2.4k gold, I’m didn’t make this wealth gambling and that’s essentially what you are doing pre-purchasing.
• Nothing has been said about story missions. Will there be two quests? or twenty? or none? I’m sure it’s not the last option, but once again nothing has been said.
• No Beta-events for pre-purchasing, so there’s literally 0 incentive why anyone should pre-order other than your typical bragging rights.
• No Pre-order bonus of any kind for pre-purchase.
• The “Free” core game can not be used whatsoever for current owners.

What do we know about the expansion and this “sale”?

• The expansion costs more than the game itself. We are literally paying MORE for LESS.
• Veteran players get shafted. New players get a free copy of the core game they can use. Veterans get to pay full price of an expansion new players do and get another free copy of the base game that is un-usable. So it becomes a 50$ expansion.
• The deluxe edition is 25$ ADDITIONAL on top of 50$ for a toon slot(10$ value), Glider and Guild Hall decor. I highly doubt Veterans consider the latter valued at 15$. ESPECIALLY since most of us probably have a Rytlock Mini. Most people would imagine a special addition would have a MINOR cost inflation with extra features.

-Side bar, I paid $25 for my little brother’s DIGITAL DELUXE EDITION of Guild Wars 2, which came with MORE content and special features for LESS EVEN AT BASE VALUE. The package is typically 50$ and comes with far more content and promotional items than the expansion.

• So that just leaves the “Ultimate” edition. This package is literally the ONLY COST EFFECTIVE BUNDLE. Why? The game “upgrade” costs 50$, a toon slot costs 10$, the 4k gems has a value of 50$, the glider is likely worth 10$~.

• The game is targeted towards new players and shaft the current players, EVEN THE NEWER CURRENT PLAYERS WHO BOUGHT THIS ON SALE IN ANTICIPATION FOR THE EXPANSION. I made and mentored MANY new players who entered this game in the last 6 months who came in anticipation of this expansion, image their disbelief when they find out, they paid 10$-20$ for the game ONLY TO HAVE TO BUY IT AGAIN IN A PACKAGE.

• New players and Veteran players get shafted for HoT Newbs. HoT Newbs essentially save 30$ by purchasing HoT(40$ base game, 40$ Expansion for 50$).

So I implore that if you believe you made an “educated” purchase with HoTs, I pray and hope that this opens your eyes. Even a little.

“Unspecified number of Zones to explore. It could be two, five, twenty, forty-eight. "

We didn’t have an answer to this question when we bought the core game either. We didn’t have an answer to that question when we bought Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, Base WoW, BC, etc etc etc. No game I have ever played has said ‘you yes, you’re getting “x” new maps’

“Nothing has been said about story missions. "
Again, we had nothing on specifics for this regarding any of the base games (1 or 2) either. I don’t expect it to be as long as the base personal story (which was 8 chapters that consisted of an average of 5 ‘quests’ per chapter), but I suspect it’s likely at least 4 chapters to cover moving into the jungle, playing meet and greet with the locals, finding mordremoth, and then finally the actual assault. Just a guess though. We do know that the expansion does have story missions / instances. The demo and pve stress test/beta allowed those that got in to play the first one.

“No Beta-events for pre-purchasing,”
This is incorrect. Colin stated during the E3 presentation that anyone that pre-purchases get access to all future betas. You can check the twitch (past broadcasts) to see him say it.

“No Pre-order bonus of any kind for pre-purchase.:”
Depends on which version you purchase. The deluxe and ultimate come with extra goodies. True, there’s no like 3-day head start for the expansion itself, but meh.

“The expansion costs more than the game itself. "
Only for those that bought the game on sale. For those of us that have been here since the beginning (or bought more than just the standard at the launch), its on par.

“So it becomes a 50$ expansion.”
Many of us veterans actually expected this. I’m not sure why people are surprised. The fact that they do roll a copy of the base game into the price is more for people thinking about picking up the game for the first time, which is a nicety.

Perhaps we are not the ones that need to open our eyes and make sure we have all the details….

I think the first post can be summarized like this:

“There are two kinds of players: people like me and nasty people. Now, here is what people like me believe. If you disagree, you must be a nasty person.”

If you want to have an actual discussion, please refrain from insulting others.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Unspecified number of Zones to explore. It could be two, five, twenty, forty-eight. "

We didn’t have an answer to this question when we bought the core game either. We didn’t have an answer to that question when we bought Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, Base WoW, BC, etc etc etc. No game I have ever played has said ‘you yes, you’re getting “x” new maps’

The Guild Wars 2 closed beta started MONTHS before the game went live. And the NDA was lifted before the game went live too. I can assure you, I knew very well what the map looked like long before I bought the game. As did my guild. As did the guilds allied to my guild.

In other words, you, sir, are talking nonsense.

Broom.2561:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Unspecified number of Zones to explore. It could be two, five, twenty, forty-eight. "

We didn’t have an answer to this question when we bought the core game either. We didn’t have an answer to that question when we bought Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, Base WoW, BC, etc etc etc. No game I have ever played has said ‘you yes, you’re getting “x” new maps’

The Guild Wars 2 closed beta started MONTHS before the game went live. And the NDA was lifted before the game went live too. I can assure you, I knew very well what the map looked like long before I bought the game. As did my guild. As did the guilds allied to my guild.

In other words, you, sir, are talking nonsense.

You knew what some zones looked like. We knew what the world map as a whole looked like when we hit M. We did not get to see all of the zones though. We did not know exactly how many there were. Hell, Orr and Zaihtan weren’t even completely finished at launch. I won’t argue that that closed beta started months before launch. However, you didn’t get full run of the kitten game during beta.

Yes, I’m well aware that we aren’t going to have anywhere near as many zones in HoT as we do in the base game. Although MW is a decent sized chunk of fogged area, I’m expecting 5-6 maps.. might be more might be less, but that’s what I’m expecting. From the looks of VB, they should be about on par in size as QD; however, the difference between the new zones and the old ones will be the amount of verticality. It all depends on how well that is done and how replayable the maps feel. Unfortunately they can only give us so much access without spoiling things. Still, the feedback I’ve heard from most of the beta players I have spoken to has been positive.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Broom.2561:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Unspecified number of Zones to explore. It could be two, five, twenty, forty-eight. "

We didn’t have an answer to this question when we bought the core game either. We didn’t have an answer to that question when we bought Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, Base WoW, BC, etc etc etc. No game I have ever played has said ‘you yes, you’re getting “x” new maps’

The Guild Wars 2 closed beta started MONTHS before the game went live. And the NDA was lifted before the game went live too. I can assure you, I knew very well what the map looked like long before I bought the game. As did my guild. As did the guilds allied to my guild.

In other words, you, sir, are talking nonsense.

You knew what some zones looked like. We knew what the world map as a whole looked like when we hit M. We did not get to see all of the zones though. We did not know exactly how many there were. Hell, Orr and Zaihtan weren’t even completely finished at launch. I won’t argue that that closed beta started months before launch. However, you didn’t get full run of the kitten game during beta.

Yes, I’m well aware that we aren’t going to have anywhere near as many zones in HoT as we do in the base game. Although MW is a decent sized chunk of fogged area, I’m expecting 5-6 maps.. might be more might be less, but that’s what I’m expecting. From the looks of VB, they should be about on par in size as QD; however, the difference between the new zones and the old ones will be the amount of verticality. It all depends on how well that is done and how replayable the maps feel. Unfortunately they can only give us so much access without spoiling things. Still, the feedback I’ve heard from most of the beta players I have spoken to has been positive.

I have to disagree with you there. We (as a guild) tested everything we could get into, and liked what we saw. We knew we had a vast world to play with. We had a fairly good idea of the mechanics, we liked them, and we were quite excited about the replayability.

And our experiences in the original GW2 closed beta rather contradict your idea things could be spoiled by early exposure. We were actually pretty eager, stoked to play it in live.

Then again, the original game was quite good. HoT… I have seen the beta so far. At this point, I’m underwhelmed.

Broom.2561:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Broom.2561:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Unspecified number of Zones to explore. It could be two, five, twenty, forty-eight. "

We didn’t have an answer to this question when we bought the core game either. We didn’t have an answer to that question when we bought Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, Base WoW, BC, etc etc etc. No game I have ever played has said ‘you yes, you’re getting “x” new maps’

The Guild Wars 2 closed beta started MONTHS before the game went live. And the NDA was lifted before the game went live too. I can assure you, I knew very well what the map looked like long before I bought the game. As did my guild. As did the guilds allied to my guild.

In other words, you, sir, are talking nonsense.

You knew what some zones looked like. We knew what the world map as a whole looked like when we hit M. We did not get to see all of the zones though. We did not know exactly how many there were. Hell, Orr and Zaihtan weren’t even completely finished at launch. I won’t argue that that closed beta started months before launch. However, you didn’t get full run of the kitten game during beta.

Yes, I’m well aware that we aren’t going to have anywhere near as many zones in HoT as we do in the base game. Although MW is a decent sized chunk of fogged area, I’m expecting 5-6 maps.. might be more might be less, but that’s what I’m expecting. From the looks of VB, they should be about on par in size as QD; however, the difference between the new zones and the old ones will be the amount of verticality. It all depends on how well that is done and how replayable the maps feel. Unfortunately they can only give us so much access without spoiling things. Still, the feedback I’ve heard from most of the beta players I have spoken to has been positive.

I have to disagree with you there. We (as a guild) tested everything we could get into, and liked what we saw. We knew we had a vast world to play with. We had a fairly good idea of the mechanics, we liked them, and we were quite excited about the replayability.

And our experiences in the original GW2 closed beta rather contradict your idea things could be spoiled by early exposure. We were actually pretty eager, stoked to play it in live.

Then again, the original game was quite good. HoT… I have seen the beta so far. At this point, I’m underwhelmed.

Difference of opinion I suppose, and I’m not the only one of that opinion.

Still, we’ve had 1 stress test (not even a beta) and 1 “beta” which amounted to 6 hours carved into 3 2 hour blocks. That’s hardly scratching the surface of what many of us expect regarding beta access. Before we scream too wildly, why don’t we wait and see what the future ones offer.

Of course, you’re always free to go as well. Completely your choice. No one’s hundcuffing you and saying you have to stay.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Broom.2561:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Broom.2561:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Unspecified number of Zones to explore. It could be two, five, twenty, forty-eight. "

We didn’t have an answer to this question when we bought the core game either. We didn’t have an answer to that question when we bought Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, Base WoW, BC, etc etc etc. No game I have ever played has said ‘you yes, you’re getting “x” new maps’

The Guild Wars 2 closed beta started MONTHS before the game went live. And the NDA was lifted before the game went live too. I can assure you, I knew very well what the map looked like long before I bought the game. As did my guild. As did the guilds allied to my guild.

In other words, you, sir, are talking nonsense.

You knew what some zones looked like. We knew what the world map as a whole looked like when we hit M. We did not get to see all of the zones though. We did not know exactly how many there were. Hell, Orr and Zaihtan weren’t even completely finished at launch. I won’t argue that that closed beta started months before launch. However, you didn’t get full run of the kitten game during beta.

Yes, I’m well aware that we aren’t going to have anywhere near as many zones in HoT as we do in the base game. Although MW is a decent sized chunk of fogged area, I’m expecting 5-6 maps.. might be more might be less, but that’s what I’m expecting. From the looks of VB, they should be about on par in size as QD; however, the difference between the new zones and the old ones will be the amount of verticality. It all depends on how well that is done and how replayable the maps feel. Unfortunately they can only give us so much access without spoiling things. Still, the feedback I’ve heard from most of the beta players I have spoken to has been positive.

I have to disagree with you there. We (as a guild) tested everything we could get into, and liked what we saw. We knew we had a vast world to play with. We had a fairly good idea of the mechanics, we liked them, and we were quite excited about the replayability.

And our experiences in the original GW2 closed beta rather contradict your idea things could be spoiled by early exposure. We were actually pretty eager, stoked to play it in live.

Then again, the original game was quite good. HoT… I have seen the beta so far. At this point, I’m underwhelmed.

Difference of opinion I suppose, and I’m not the only one of that opinion.

Still, we’ve had 1 stress test (not even a beta) and 1 “beta” which amounted to 6 hours carved into 3 2 hour blocks. That’s hardly scratching the surface of what many of us expect regarding beta access. Before we scream too wildly, why don’t we wait and see what the future ones offer.

Of course, you’re always free to go as well. Completely your choice. No one’s hundcuffing you and saying you have to stay.

I do think that what has been shows so far is indicative of a trend, though. Where the core game is open access, play however and whatever you want, the first zone we see in HoT is a linear result of a specific story. That suggests that the opening of any other zones will follow the same pattern. And it all feels a lot more restricted than Orr. It frankly gives me flashbacks to Tabula Rasa (closed beta, never live, eew) and it’s omnipresent invisible walls.

Another thing I find rather disturbing is the increasing reliance on ‘alternate mode of movement’ gimmicks. I’ve run into a lot of people who hate Dry Top with a passion for it, and I even know people who have severe issues with it because of physical disabilities. I’m really not sure that’s such a good idea to make MORE zones like that.

And then there’s the zone specific skills. It’s almost like they’re saying ‘you WILL spend an x amount of time in this zone to progress, whether you like it or not’. At this point, it’s not clear how far this extends into the rest of HoT, but there definitely WERE markers for other areas, although greyed out at this point.

So yes, to me what has been shown so far looks linear, funneled and grindy. And following a trend I had rather not seen continued.

Another big issue is, that what we saw at the 2 hour block beta is probably more then 50% of the content anet wants us to pay 50$+ for…

I read the last 3 hours a lot of threads here and there is nothing else right now we get new with HoT.

Most of the people that write that the price is great and worth it have just no idea what they are paying for… Most content like the new purse, new trait system, new wvw maps, new pvp maps, guild halls, masterys and more is not HoT content. It is free gw2 content everyone gets.

I really hope that one of these “oh how great to pay 100$ for something I mostly own already” would explain what exactly the content is they get for so much real money. I can only think of:
- revenant (well not with the standard 50$ HoT game
- spezializations (so 6 more skills for each class…)

I wonder what kind of extremly rich life people have that considers this two small things worth 50-100$…

As the OP hinted at, I do love the way “entitlement” is thrown around as a means to stifle and shut down discussion.

People are “entitled” because they expect a fully-working product for their sixty notes.

People are “entitled” because they expect a finished and complete product which they paid for with their own cash.

People are “entitled” when they question why a single-player game requires an internet connection and an online account to beg permission to play the game they have paid for.

People are “entitled” because they speak out against anti-consumer practices the big publishers continue to exert on their customer base.

People are “entitled” when they speak out against false promises and outright lies peddled by the gaming industry.

People are “entitled” when they say they are going to walk away.

It’s not entitlement. As a consumer, it’s common sense, and if that makes me “entitled”, then it means I’m doing something right.