Guild Wars 2

There are many things I love about Guild Wars 2 – let me get this out there first. There are, however, things that I very much dislike, namely the guild system. My first issue is that there are so few requirements that the game has an overabundance of guilds. I get that GW2 is attempting to break the mold by removing limitations we’ve seen as ‘normal’ in other MMORPG’s, but I feel this takes away from the Guild system. Let me be more clear.

• It costs a mere 1 silver (which means any level 2 person can start a guild in a matter of a minute)
• There is no charter requirement (a love it or hate it feature – for those who don’t know what it is, it was a requirement to have 5 or so people confirm their support of the guild before it could be created)
• You can join up to 5 guilds at one time.

I’ll look at these issues one at a time. First of all, the practically non-existent monetary requirement denies players the feeling of being able to build up to something. Handing guilds out means you don’t get the satisfaction of building up your wallet for a true purpose. Just as an example, when my buddy and I were playing RIFT, we played together at nearly all times. He was the tank and I was the healer – a classic duo. Now of course when we created our characters we were already thinking of how cool it would be to run our own guild. In RIFT it cost one platinum (equivalent to one gold in GW2) to start a guild, an amount we collectively worked towards to achieve. When we finally earned that one platinum we headed straight to the guild magistrate with that feeling of accomplishment I was referring to earlier. Not only does a 1 silver requirement remove the sense of accomplishment, it is the reason why guild recruitment sites have more guilds then there are players (seemingly).

Next, the charter requirement. Again, some people disliked this feature and wanted to be able to start their guild right away. There are others like me however, who saw that while it did add an extra step into the progress, it helped you to build a foundation. I currently have 5 people in my guild, and not due to lack of effort. I try advertising – not spamming – in map chat, I posted ads on 4 websites including the official guild recruitment forum, and I ask people that I explore/event with. Quite frustrating to be in a Very High population world and still have an issue like this.

The ability to be in up to 5 guilds. Five guilds. FIVE. GUILDS. Am I the only one who thought this was ludicrous? What happened to guild loyalty? What happened to either being in a guild, or leaving it?

Call this a rant or just complaints or whatever you want, but they are truly valid points. The three things I pointed out three things about the Guild Wars 2 guild system that make it harder to develop a strong, loyal guild.

I love my bank guild. Me, myself and I. I don’t see why that should bother anyone. My guild isn’t doing any harm. I even have my own guild kite.

I’m assuming you didn’t read any of that

They wanted to make the guilds like a social club or specialized interests guilds. I think they expected people to have a PvE guild and a PvP and a WvW guild. Maybe throw in a RP guild or a just friends guild. And you would rep the guild that matched what you are doing.

The reasoning behind it is, for example, you have various friends in real life. Some you only go bowling with. Some are friends who get together to play football. Some are friends you go to movies with. You wouldn’t be expected to never see your football playing friends because your movie friends demanded full time from you.

That was their reasoning behind the multi guilds memberships.

Guilds are social groups in online games. Not necessarily castles or towns or something. I see no reason they should be treated as major investments other than a desire to weed out the multitude of them. I think it’s really a move in the right direction for this style of game to emphasize them as such. Sometimes you want to PvE, sometimes you want to PvP, lots of times those interests don’t fully line up in a single guild, so now you can switch between both dependent on what you feel like doing that day. Loyalty is irrelevant. Again, it’s not like you’re building a castle kingdom or township.

Matt Stacey.7415:

I’m assuming you didn’t read any of that

Oh, I read all of it. In summary: It should require more effort to start a guild. You only have 5 people in your guild despite advertising.

Edit: Oh and I just looked at your advert in the Guild Recruitment forum. IMO it could have used a little more flavor. You didn’t even provide the guild name, just the tag. It was only a few days go since your post. Give it some time.

A good tip to being in a successful guild: Be level 80. Nobody wants an unskilled guild leader.

Another good tip: Let players do what they want. Nobody wants a controlling guild leader.

Lastly an actual tip: Let players represent other guilds. That’s their choice. If you’re reaching the 500 cap, that’s when things start to make a difference, but until then, just let people be in it for the sake of being in it. Don’t force them to be in it.

How would you like it if I, as your friend, forced you to spend all your time with me. If you spent time with anyone outside of my circle of friends, I would confront you and tell you that you can’t be my friend anymore. How would that make you feel?

I have a Guild with some friends that unlike me didn’t play GW1 and aren’t really active in GW2. The game has flaws, yes, and I would like to see them focus on improving mechanics and expanding their system rather than making this mediocre Living Story content, but I intend on playing GW2 in the years to come.

While I find it convenient that we have our guild and I can be part of that, all the while representing another guild that I’m in, I agree with you totally.
- The purpose of having a guild and the reason to have it in a game is something that ANet seems to have completely forgotten when they made GW2.
- In other games such as Rift and WoW (and, well, GW1) there were guilds which were widely respected, whereas in GW2 it is somewhat more casual and it affects the Guilds too.
- The guild I’m in is called “The Elite Guardians of Tyria” and when I joined a lot of players were active, but right now it seems that the casual aspect of GW2 is choking all life out of this otherwise great concepts.

- I’d say the old model works better. You have a stronger relationship with your guild, and you don’t get people after you asking “Why aren’t you representing us?!?” – I follow your point completely.

Esplen.3940:

A good tip to being in a successful guild: Be level 80. Nobody wants an unskilled guild leader.

Another good tip: Let players do what they want. Nobody wants a controlling guild leader.

Lastly an actual tip: Let players represent other guilds. That’s their choice. If you’re reaching the 500 cap, that’s when things start to make a difference, but until then, just let people be in it for the sake of being in it. Don’t force them to be in it.

How would you like it if I, as your friend, forced you to spend all your time with me. If you spent time with anyone outside of my circle of friends, I would confront you and tell you that you can’t be my friend anymore. How would that make you feel?

Like you were a pretty lousy friend..? (Not to mention that such people rarely have any friends, and as such are called solo players. )
- A guild is supposed to be like your community.
Why Guild Halls and capes have not been implemented yet is beyond me.
- Imagine if the Guild Hall could be expanded with Arenas, Guild Uniforms that the Guild master created for each rank, and all such stuff that the community could enjoy together (some guild achievements for completing certain dungeon paths or PvP maps with guild members? – Oh wait… GvG, of course. This could really tighten the bond between players that root for each other and have a great time).
- Could you imagine if you played GvG against another guild you were a part of but not representing? That would be awkward… and maybe that is the reason GvG is not part of Guild Wars (contradiction right there) 2.

Guilds are not supposed to be a this casual.

Sinifair.1026:

Guilds are not supposed to be a this casual.

Not saying you are wrong here…but how did you come to this conclusion? Given that the requirements to start and maintain a guild are somewhat minimal, it would seem (my take on it, anyway) that guilds are supposed to be whatever the guilds want them to be. Perhaps I missed something…and you are correct. Wouldn’t be the first time that I was wrong.

Sinifair.1026:

Esplen.3940:

A good tip to being in a successful guild: Be level 80. Nobody wants an unskilled guild leader.

Another good tip: Let players do what they want. Nobody wants a controlling guild leader.

Lastly an actual tip: Let players represent other guilds. That’s their choice. If you’re reaching the 500 cap, that’s when things start to make a difference, but until then, just let people be in it for the sake of being in it. Don’t force them to be in it.

How would you like it if I, as your friend, forced you to spend all your time with me. If you spent time with anyone outside of my circle of friends, I would confront you and tell you that you can’t be my friend anymore. How would that make you feel?

Like you were a pretty lousy friend..? (Not to mention that such people rarely have any friends, and as such are called solo players. )

My analogy with friends was supposed to be replaceable with guilds.

I do agree that guilds forcing you to rep them 100% of the time are pretty lousy guilds.

Lots of things to address here. I think it’s best to do this in order

@Astral Projections: I don’t feel the same way about the guild system. I believe traditional guilds include people who work and play together towards collective goals. Whether they are playing alone or with guild-mates, they still contribute to some objective. I believe having a guild separately for PvE PvP WvW RP etc. is just excessive. I believe those are social groups, and nothing more (other than PvE). Call me old fashioned, but that’s the way I see it.

@Leon
I actually see it as the opposite. I would love to see guild castles and I believe building up a guild should feel like an investment, with a great pay-off. I do not like how casual guilds are, and do not like the idea of constantly switching back and forth between guilds to match an interest.

@Esplen
I agree with most of what you said. However, when did I say I forced anyone to play with me? If you’re referring to my RIFT example, that was our choice. We chose to play together because apparently 80% of the population of MMORPG’s prefer solo gameplay. I believe solo gameplay gets boring much quicker – just having someone to talk to while you grind makes it a lot more enjoyable.

@Sinifair
Seems like you have the same viewpoint as I do. I definitely prefer the older model that actually develops relationships, and I believe you captured my main point exactly – the guild system feels entirely too casual. Again, I see how ANet is trying to break the boundaries set by previous games, but I feel that regardless of the MMORPG’s I played (WOW, RIFT, Runes of Magic, etc) the guild system always had more of a community aspect to it. I remember Runes of Magic did actually have Guild vs Guild, kind of like a mini WvWvW with each guild having it’s own castle (an actual Guild Castle) with various objectives like capture the flag and hold key locations. I do find it very ironic that Guild Wars has no Guild vs Guild as well..

@Elothar
It’s simply a matter of opinion. Some feel that guilds should operate like online social groups, others – myself included – feel that guilds should operate like online communities. It could be old fashioned nostalgia of previous guild systems, but it definitely seems like the low requirement, casual approach to guild creation in GW2 produces more casual groups than online communities.

I didn’t say that you did that, I just stated an analogy describing a “100% represent” guild.

I misunderstood your post then. I’ve never really had an issue with representing. I don’t really have enough people yet for it to be an issue I suppose :P

Matt Stacey.7415:

@Leon
I actually see it as the opposite. I would love to see guild castles and I believe building up a guild should feel like an investment, with a great pay-off. I do not like how casual guilds are, and do not like the idea of constantly switching back and forth between guilds to match an interest.

If you like scifi, and don’t mistake this for me telling you to leave please, EVE Online is where it’s at. That game is basically the pinnacle of “guild castles” and great payoffs for investing in and building up your “guild”. The closest to that that comes to mind in GW2 is seizing towers and keeps, which if that’s good enough for you, then awesome.

@Leon
I didn’t interpret that as “solo play or GTFO” so no worries lol, I’ve accepted GW2 is what it is, and while I appreciate the suggestion I’m going to focus on finding other players that share my viewpoint.

I have no problem with multi-guilding but the problem is with guild chat. If you have multiple social circles you can be hanging with one and get a text advising you of what another is doing. In GW2, you can only listen to one chat at a time. So if you have an engaging, exciting guild (as I do), you don’t want to rep anywhere else even if they are fun too because darn it, you’ll miss out.

Still, it’s wonderful to be able to have more than one guild. It’s helped foster RP, for sure. It’s also great to have them easy to make. The investment and pride comes from getting guild perks via influence. Why should you have to grind your way to the chance to -start- the guild and only then start increasing its power?

The cost would have been irrelevant with the gems→gold exchange. At best it would have earned ANet additional accusations of being greedy.

How would requiring a charter make your guild any more appealing to join?

The main oddity with the 5 guild limit is that it exist at all, probably for server performance reasons. Some games do guild membership on a per character basis. GW1 did it by account. I guess some GW1 players back in the day wanted different characters in different guilds and this was the system they came up with to allow both.

5 guilds is not enough.

Those are not valid points. The guild system was designed to make everything more accessible on purpose. It doesn’t restrict your options, it doesn’t force you in a situation you don’t like.

Why would I need to look for 3 random people to create a guild for myself and my friend? Why would I need to pay a lot of gold to be in a guild with anyone?

If you want a traditional guild with goals and 100% representation, you have the ability to do that. Just make a 100% rep guild and wait for more people to join.

What, you only have 5 members in it? I guess nobody wants to join a guild like that. Should people be forced to join a guild like that? No, and that’s why GW2 did the system right.

The problem isn’t that you can be in 5 guilds, it’s that all 5 of those guilds see you regardless of which character you are on. It causes arguments, plain and simple. It either needs to be like GW1 where you can only join a single guild (not preferable) or character based so you join a guild on that single character alone (very preferable). If you want to put all your characters in a single guild, so be it. You shouldn’t be forced to.

There are a lot of horrible guilds out there. You can go out and earn 1000 influence and no one will as much as say boo to you. Then they wonder why no one wants to be in their guild. Too many people think they can ignore their members once they join.

Matt Stacey.7415:

Lots of things to address here. I think it’s best to do this in order

@Elothar
It’s simply a matter of opinion. Some feel that guilds should operate like online social groups, others – myself included – feel that guilds should operate like online communities. It could be old fashioned nostalgia of previous guild systems, but it definitely seems like the low requirement, casual approach to guild creation in GW2 produces more casual groups than online communities.

So, I guess my point is that guilds should be what the people in them want them to be. As for GW2 “producing” more casual guilds, I do see your point but do not really agree. I go back to the idea that guilds/players will do what best suits them. Granted that Anet has set a somewhat low institutional bar – but for me that merely means that it is simple to get up and running with a guild. Once we are up and running, the GM and members will make their own decisions about what the guild is about.

My sig adequately explains the benefits of the guild system as I see it.

I have a primary WvW guild that I play with most of the time, as I’m usually WvW’ing. However, I also created a Keg Brawl guild which has had 40-60 members & about 20 active over the past 7 months. This guild system provides a great way to organize and connect with players that have common interests.

Though opening a guild is easy and cheap, getting what you need for your guild to be a guild that anyone would find useful requires time and energy and work (or at least money).

Unlocking features like the guild bank, guild buffs, guild missions. all requires time and patience.

Sure there are six gazillion guilds out there. But the truth of that matter is that after a time, even a gold wouldn’t be a big deal for people to get. Anyone can farm a gold. But not everyone can have enough people playing to unlock every guild mission.

We’ve just unlocked our last guild mission recently. It took us months to get here. I don’t know about anyone else but I keenly felt that progression.

As for joining multiple guilds, I see no problem in this. I’m in Australia and while my guild is very active during US times, it’s nice to have a backup place to go while most people are sleeping.

The only thing wrong with Guilds is that the Storage isn’t Cross-Server.

Matt Stacey.7415:

I’ll look at these issues one at a time. First of all, the practically non-existent monetary requirement denies players the feeling of being able to build up to something. Handing guilds out means you don’t get the satisfaction of building up your wallet for a true purpose. Just as an example, when my buddy and I were playing RIFT, we played together at nearly all times. He was the tank and I was the healer – a classic duo. Now of course when we created our characters we were already thinking of how cool it would be to run our own guild. In RIFT it cost one platinum (equivalent to one gold in GW2) to start a guild, an amount we collectively worked towards to achieve. When we finally earned that one platinum we headed straight to the guild magistrate with that feeling of accomplishment I was referring to earlier. Not only does a 1 silver requirement remove the sense of accomplishment, it is the reason why guild recruitment sites have more guilds then there are players (seemingly).

I am not sure that one gold, the example you give, is much of something to build up to. Having one gold to spend on starting a guild is not really much of an accomplishment. The accomplishment in GW2, the thing you work toward and perhaps feel proud of, is developing a sense of community within a group of people so that you can have a guild that means more than just access to another chat channel. If you can manage that at low level, before even earning that one gold, then you are every bit as deserving (more so IMO) of having a guild than someone who just bought some gems to convert to gold, got a lucky drop, or spent some time farming.

Matt Stacey.7415:

Next, the charter requirement. Again, some people disliked this feature and wanted to be able to start their guild right away. There are others like me however, who saw that while it did add an extra step into the progress, it helped you to build a foundation. I currently have 5 people in my guild, and not due to lack of effort. I try advertising – not spamming – in map chat, I posted ads on 4 websites including the official guild recruitment forum, and I ask people that I explore/event with. Quite frustrating to be in a Very High population world and still have an issue like this.

If you are having trouble recruiting people then a system that required, for example, ten people to endorse a prospective guild charter before the guild could form would prevent you from even having a guild right now. Your own suggested system would have prevented you from having your own guild….how is that better than not being able to find more people for the guild ?

I have played games with charter/founding member requirement systems. Zone chat always had messages like, “looking for four more to form a guild. You don’t have to stay, just join for two minutes…will pay <insert currency type/amount here>” I am not sure that is an improvement…

The real reason that a guild has trouble expanding (not counting those whose members are just plain obnoxious-not a jab at you, you seem reasonable) is that a small guild doesn’t offer as much of what many people look for in a guild as a large one does. A larger guild is more likely to have enough people on to negate the need to PUG. It is more likely to have, and be able to gain, desirable features. And so on.

Guild size is a classic catch 22. You need enough members to be able to do stuff, but you have to have the stuff in order to get new members. Not an absolute of course.

Matt Stacey.7415:

The ability to be in up to 5 guilds. Five guilds. FIVE. GUILDS. Am I the only one who thought this was ludicrous? What happened to guild loyalty? What happened to either being in a guild, or leaving it?

I tend to agree with this. Its a matter of personal preference. I prefer to find a guild that fits me (and that I fit) and stick with it. My wife is a member of several guilds. She loves to roleplay (and is a member of an RP guild). She loves to run dungeons-with an emphasis on perfect runs and fast times (and is a member of a dungeon running guild). She loves to WvW (and is a member of a WvW guild). She loves to sPvP (and is a member of a guild that emphasizes sPvP). The odds of finding one guild that does all of the above, and does each component well, are long.

Matt Stacey.7415:

Call this a rant or just complaints or whatever you want, but they are truly valid points. The three things I pointed out three things about the Guild Wars 2 guild system that make it harder FOR ME to develop a strong, loyal guild.

Fixed that last bit for you.

I like guilds in GW2 because it does not have that in your pocket claustrophobia that I have experienced in other games.

In DDO my husband and I had to make secret characters that we played just when we wanted to have some peace from the “Oh you are online why are you not playing with me?”
I hate that so much, along with the drama, the obligations, the expectations, the meetings etc -that I very seriously considered not joining a guild at all.

In the end we made a family guild and it suited me really well because I could use my time to play rather than schedule it around xyz.

I recently joined a new guild and I will see how it goes

I was thinking about creating a thread about guild issues, but oddly enough my issues are not at all the same as yours. I like that GW2 allows the easy creation of guilds and belonging to more than one guild because I think it supports the playstyles the game is going for. Like Astral said, you’re meant to be able to join a wvw guild and a pve guild and “real friends” guild etc etc.

My issue with the guild system is that it somewhat defeats itself anyway. I was recently removed from my wvw guild because they had a rule I should represent them at a certain time of day, every day, and I refused because I still had social guilds. Why should this one guild know I have characters in other guilds, anyway? I understand that seeing someone online but not representing is useful to know how loyal a player is to your own guild, but is that really what everyone wants? Privacy-wise, it’s weird. But the privacy-wise the whole “following” someone is weird, too.

Anyway OP, I appreciate the guild system isn’t doing what you want it to—me neither—but I don’t agree that making it more strict or difficult is the answer. I think they should commit the other way, personally. I believe this would actually support what you were saying about loyalty, etc, because then players could feel they really did support a guild for certain things (eg. wvw or pve or whatever) without the drama of explaining why they aren’t representing every minute of the day.

Elothar.4382:

Sinifair.1026:

Guilds are not supposed to be a this casual.

Not saying you are wrong here…but how did you come to this conclusion? Given that the requirements to start and maintain a guild are somewhat minimal, it would seem (my take on it, anyway) that guilds are supposed to be whatever the guilds want them to be. Perhaps I missed something…and you are correct. Wouldn’t be the first time that I was wrong.

I wouldn’t say you’re wrong. It is a matter of opinion, and in the beginning, I shared yours.
- My experience with guilds in GW2 is, however, that the community that guilds used to be to me in other games like WoW, GW1, etc. were more close, whereas my experience with guilds in GW2 is that being in many different guilds takes away from the experience of being in a guild and sharing a bond with other players.
- Sure, some guilds are better or more mature than others, and it’s convenient to be able to be in more than one, but somehow it just takes away the feeling of actually being in the guild.

- It is just my opinion, I don’t claim to have the right answer here, but in the perspective that I’ve experienced it in, I don’t believe that guilds should be this casual.
- I don’t mind if people don’t agree, and you know what? I have the option of just being in one guild, if I so desire. I don’t mean to take away from anyone for whom this new take on the guild system was the miracle they waited for, but personally, I think that if they could experience some of that bonding that many of us so called “old timers” have, they’d probably share some of our viewpoints as well. There is nothing like that feeling of having a bunch of friends who’ll do dungeons, PvP or just explore with you or give you advice as to how you can better yourself.
- I’d like for people to experience that, but who knows. Maybe this new system just needs to fall into place, and people into the guilds that fit them.

The thing is, you can be in a single guild in Guild Wars 2 and many people are. In other games, people had alts that joined other guilds, sometimes on different servers. At least here it’s all above board.

People always had the ability to join multiple guilds in other games.

Esplen.3940:

I do agree that guilds forcing you to rep them 100% of the time are pretty lousy guilds.

Yeah. One problem I have is that all my characters have joined a guild, when I really just wanted one of them to. All my characters were contacted by our guild leader, who asked some questions as to why they weren’t representing.
- He was cool as to that I had a character already representing and that I wanted some of these other characters to represent other guilds, such as the one with my real life friends (truth be told, though, if my real life friends were still playing, I’d only be in one guild. I try frequently to get them into GW2, but they want to see more improvement to mechanics and all that before that’s going to happen. I find it a pity, since I see great potential in GW2, but who knows. Just had a LAN party with them last week, and some of them installed GW2 again, so maybe they’re up for it).

Start cost- I don’t think this itself is a problem, but I do agree that guilds could use something more physical to build up to. Hopefully guild halls can give us this in the future.

Charter req- I don’t see this as an issue. In other games, I’ve seen some people just ask randoms to join for the start up to get around this (alts makes this easy to happen). Even if they have to stay, it’s just 5 people. All this really prevents is one man guilds for banking.

You can join up to 5 guilds at one time. I can see the attraction and convenience of multiple guilds for specific tasks (it practically makes it a lfg tool), but I do agree that this takes away the close guild feeling and loyalty. However, players can choose to get together with others that will mainly represent one guild. Fortunately for me, I was able to come over with my gw1 guild, so most of the members stick to representing the main guild, and we’re large enough that we can get a group for a variety of activities.

Matt Stacey.7415:

• It costs a mere 1 silver (which means any level 2 person can start a guild in a matter of a minute)
• There is no charter requirement (a love it or hate it feature – for those who don’t know what it is, it was a requirement to have 5 or so people confirm their support of the guild before it could be created)
• You can join up to 5 guilds at one time.

-this first point is fine with me as it goes with my view on your second point
-there is no charter and there is no start-up fee. There is however room for your guild to grow. You need active people feeding merit into the guild to unlock certain things. With people doing these things, the guild will fade and die. An inclusion of reards that also require monetary input might be a welcome additon (guild base/housing, etc) I don’t find the guild start-up lack of fees or charter a problem as you must have ctive people to advance the guild.
- as for your third point, the idea is that you can join different guilds with different purposes. PvE, WvW and PvP. This way you are not limited to joining a guild that’s only into WvW and have noone to do PvE content with, and so forth. The guild loyalty you speak of still exists, as each guild serves its own purpose, people to do those activities with. Though, I agree that 5 is a bit excessive. A limit of 3 to accommodate the games 3 main gameplay standards would suffice.

The idea of forming/joining a guild is to play the game with a group of people who share similar in-game interests.

Like to WvW exclusively? Join or make a guild that does it.

Like to PvE exclusively? Same thing.

Like to play all areas? Same thing again.

Why have a seperate group of guildies/friends for each of the different areas of the game?

In addition to being able to join multiple guilds, you can only represent one at any one time. The guild requires its member to represent it in order to benefit from that member. You can see who is in the guild, online, and not representing (green box with a horzontal line going across). Something that is sure to annoy those who can’t seem to get the points needed to build up the guild bank, or create missions, etc.

The idea of being part of a guild loses its meaning, its prestige, when you can just join and bounce between multiple guilds. The more you can join and bounce between, the less meaning being in a guild has.

Imagine if you could be in as many as you like? What would even be the point of having them then?

All social groups “nitch” up, i’ve been running my community for almost 10 years and we still have and have always had groups of people that typically play together. I tend to spread around, but lately i’m just playing this game. No one in our community demands that more people play BLOPS2 or GT5 or GW2 or any other game. If you pocket GW2 into 3 categories and like to dabble in them all, why shouldn’t you be able too?

I’m not a huge fan of the limited capabilities of guilds however. The tools in the game for guild leaders are so dismal and uninspired it makes running a guild somewhat of a torturous process. Any Tom, kitten or Harry can start a Guild, but only a few can actually do what it takes to run one. Most of the guilds i’ve been a part of, the leaders are just selfish jerks. That gets you lots of numbers at first, then everyone eventually ditches you. Just saying, doesn’t matter if everyone has a guild, only a few are going to be successful social communities.