Guild Wars 2

That’s a while i think a big nerf of boons/conditions should help all classes to be usefull and different, i ever feel alot of boons/conditions spam, i dont really feel classes too different as are in other games, and sometime that’s a joke, i dont understand why some classes have quickness or stealth, why almost every classes can give everything…
imho if a big nerf (and overall balance ofc) will come all the content should be harder, the tactics will have to change and alot of classes should found their spot with a different way, and i think they should go deeper on their purpose

i know everyone dont wanna this, because everyone wanna have a powerfull character press one button and win, but when i play thief i dont feel too much difference from ele, war, guard etc etc and this is pretty boring

Lian Olsam.9541:

That’s a while i think a big nerf of boons/conditions should help all classes to be usefull and different,

Godd Idea, and next we nerf direct Damage Players HP and Armor, all to make them useful.

Wait what? You want to increase diversity by nerfing boons and condtions??? You are aware 90% of the game is DPS DPS DPS? Out of curiosity OP, what prof/build do you use? (guessing zerker but maybe I’m wrong)

Most classes have access to most boons, and that’s an extremely good thing for diversity. People can play the class they want, and still help others around them. When you give boons to your group as an ele, you don’t do it the same way as an engi or mesmer: That’s diversity.

I would hate to see a huge condi/boon nerf because the meta tends to be zerk stack and kill… If anything weakening the enemy (condis) and supporting your party (boons) should be more essential.

i have a better idea Swiftness to guardians!

i use all classes in pve (all zerk ofc) and spvp, what i suggest is not to remove everything, but to give a different access to boons and conditions

i think there is no sense to give everything to everyone, i’d like to have some exclusive boon for some classes, quickness only for mesmer, stealth only for thief, protection for guardians etc etc

now i’ll made the same question to you, what class do u play? you play more than one? what’s the difference between classes? why some classes will give vulnerabilty just autoattacking, i’d like to see this condi only for necro, so he should be really helpfull for the party, and so for other classes, every classes with some REAL UNIQUE feature for the party

as i told i play all classes, i dont feel too much difference between them, in other games this difference is huge, and is stupid imho have something different, who isnt really different, just the name, and the icon on skills

I also use every class, though I mainly play a mesmer. I also use a variety of build/stat set ups: zerker, sinister, cele, rabid, cleric/soldier. I like having a variety and a large amount of diversity available during play. i asked you what you played because your post basicly reads as “nerf conditions and boons”; even though zerker dps is the most prevalent build.

I think it makes great sense to give classes access to most boons and conditions, for a variety of reasons.

1: Might, fury, protection, regen, aegis, swiftness, stealth, quickness, stability. These are all boons, but some are more useful then others, and honestly it makes more sense to have everyone have access to the majority of these types of things. That way player build diversity is still viable. Want to play a more tanky mesmer, take some skills for defense boons. Want to buff your parties DPS go for might/fury…

2. Most classes can apply the same boons as another; that is a good thing. Just because each class can share many of the same boons, they do not do it the same way. An ele shares might very differently then a mesmer does, this holds true for most buffs and profs.

You play all classes but don’t feel much difference? How are other games classes so vastly different then GW2s? GW2s skills are not all just different name and skill icons, most of the skills ARE different.

Lian Olsam.9541:

i use all classes in pve (all zerk ofc) and spvp, what i suggest is not to remove everything, but to give a different access to boons and conditions

i think there is no sense to give everything to everyone, i’d like to have some exclusive boon for some classes, quickness only for mesmer, stealth only for thief, protection for guardians etc etc

Ignoring that there are boons like that (Spotter for example), the flip-side of this is the players that only play one or two professions.

Limiting boon and condition access would shift the current meta around a little, and eventually you’d have even more of a problem because that meta would require certain things (vulnerability, for example) and so meta groups would only contain professions with access to them boons and conditions.

Making each single fight take longer doesn’t really makes anything harder, mostly
just more boring, tedious and less fun (at least for me) .

Less damage is in the end the same than more HPs for mobs .. so hey .. why not
give every mob 100% more hitpoints .. Teq will then have 4 times the hitpoints
he had before the patch .. this will be really funny .. right ?

OP: Perhaps it’s how you’re playing your different classes, and not so much that they aren’t different.

I can pretty much assure you that a party of five warriors will function a lot differently than a party of a warrior, guardian, thief, and a couple of eles.

All the professions feel the same b/c some have stealth while others don’t and some have quickness while others don’t and some can spam condis while others can’t and because some can spam boons while others can’t and some have access to invulnerable or blocks or reflects while others don’t and b/c reasons….

I’m not sure I’m following your logic here. :/

Tman.6349:

All the professions feel the same b/c some have stealth while others don’t and some have quickness while others don’t and some can spam condis while others can’t and because some can spam boons while others can’t and some have access to invulnerable or blocks or reflects while others don’t and b/c reasons….

I’m not sure I’m following your logic here. :/

I would say that OP just played one Class despite saying that he plays every class. And now he feels his Class to be underwhelming and asks for a Nerf

Mourningcry.9428:

OP: Perhaps it’s how you’re playing your different classes, and not so much that they aren’t different.

I can pretty much assure you that a party of five warriors will function a lot differently than a party of a warrior, guardian, thief, and a couple of eles.

i know is different, but not like other games does
you wanna have this classes in dungeons only for the following reason:
ele=icebow + might/fury
war=might share/ banners
guard and mesm=reflect quickness, portal for mesm
thief = invisibility
ranger= spotter
necro = no one want the necro in dungeons

and ofc all of them for dps, that’s it, i see much more differences in other games….

i know i’ve forgot some little aspect, but this is the first reason you lf these classes in dungeons..

i’m not saying my way is the right one, and you are the evil, i’m just saying the problem is this classes doesent are too much different compared to other games, i think remove something to all classes (and balance the content) should give to them something more special.
maybe there is other way for this my purpose, and maybe they r better, but i think this is one biggest things…

(confused) you say theres not much difference and all of the classes are DPS, yet you propose a nerf to boons and conditions?! Boons are the supporty element of the game, conditions are pressure/debuffing. If you want to see more variety and challenge, increasing the need and desirable effects of boons and conditions is the way to go. Get away from the ZERK and stack mind set.

I asked befor, but could you give a few examples of how other games are “more different”. Most of the other mmos I’ve played DPS classes did DPS, tanks tanked, healers healed, each may have done it a bit differently but the result was the same; much like in GW2.

The biggest thing to keep in mind when compairing GW2 to other MMOs is this game has no trinity, no dedicated tank, no dedicated healer, and CRAP TONS of DPS.

I don’t understand why you would want to limit play styles for each class, and at the same time complain about diversity. Less play styles for each class = LESS diversity.

What everyone is missing from the OP’s post is that he’s heading towards a type of trinity style of play…which is against what GW2 was designed for. Remember, all classes are supposed to be self-sufficient…that was and is the design choice, if you’re not happy with it, then perhaps……(you should be able to answer this yourself).

i dont wanna limit playing style, i’d like to see profession with an identity inside the combat system, now i just see a spam of boons/conditions, i’d like to have more focussed classes…

i repeat, maybe there is a better way for make the classes more different, and give them finally an identity, and i think content is really important, i’m the one who hope to go out of all that full dps/corner meta, but maybe give a major identity and make less spamming boon/condition should help too

Zaklex.6308:

What everyone is missing from the OP’s post is that he’s heading towards a type of trinity style of play…which is against what GW2 was designed for. Remember, all classes are supposed to be self-sufficient…that was and is the design choice, if you’re not happy with it, then perhaps……(you should be able to answer this yourself).

self sufficient for what? i know the anet purpose, but everything is done with OTHERS, except the personal story u do spvp, wvw, dungeons and world events with others, this game wasnt designed for have a dedicated healer, or tank, but this doesent means you can have different profession, for example direct dmg or dot, are different way to kill enemies.

the modify to the condi cap is a good way for have a chance to see something different and allow some profession to be different, but when i see every prof can have acces to everykind of stuff i dont like it too much….

But removing the ability to use certain boons and conditions DOES limit play style. Professions already do have an identity. Each one plays differently then the other. Just because they can all get from point A to point B doesn’t mean they all take the same path.

As for “spamming” boons and conditions… Boon spamming if you mean might, I can see spamming that, other boons though are more useful when used at the right time. It’s the same as many other play styles in gw2, you don’t have to be 100% meta perfect to succeed. As for spamming conditions, condi builds tend to use condis for damage, sort of like a zerker build uses base attacks for damage. It only makes sense if you use conditions to do damage you keep as many conditions on the target as possible. Some people enjoy playing with condi or supporting boons more then just zerker. There’s really no need to nerf those play styles when zerker is already more effective.

Lian Olsam.9541:

self sufficient for what? i know the anet purpose, but everything is done with OTHERS, except the personal story u do spvp, wvw, dungeons and world events with others, this game wasnt designed for have a dedicated healer, or tank, but this doesent means you can have different profession, for example direct dmg or dot, are different way to kill enemies.

Self sufficient meaning you don’t need a healer or pure support and tank, everyone takes care of them self while fighting. This game currently DOES have different professions, I really doubt you play your mesmer the same way you play your theif.

The only thing that I will admit I would like to see, is some way to influence boon strength. That way people that like to support and boon could actually have a method of improving that vs just taking other stuff.

Lian Olsam.9541:

i think there is no sense to give everything to everyone, i’d like to have some exclusive boon for some classes, quickness only for mesmer, stealth only for thief, protection for guardians etc etc

There are class unique effects:

Mesmer: Slow, Distortion, Polymorph, Chronomancer will have alacrity
Elementalist: Auras, Deep Freeze
Necromancer: Convert boons into conditions, Vampiric Aura
Thieves: Stealing boons
Ranger: 1500 range, Frost Spirit
Warrior: Banners
Guardian: Aegis

As well as effects that are provided by only a few classes

Stealth: Mesmer/Thief/Engineer
Fear: Necromancer/Warrior/Thief (Via a steal skill)
Reflects: Mesmer/Guardian

and effects that are provided in an unsually high amount that’s difficult to match by other classes with access to them.

Group might stacking: Warrior/Elementalist
Fury: Ranger
Reflects: Mesmer

Just a few comments

Aegis isn’t unique to guardians, mesmers, necros, theives, and humans (counting racial) have access to it.

Reflects are also more common then just mes/guardian. Ele, engi, ranger, warrior, and I think thief can also reflect.

Lian Olsam.9541:

i use all classes in pve (all zerk ofc) and spvp, what i suggest is not to remove everything, but to give a different access to boons and conditions

i think there is no sense to give everything to everyone, i’d like to have some exclusive boon for some classes, quickness only for mesmer, stealth only for thief, protection for guardians etc etc

Personally I think this is how the game should have been designed from the very beginning. It seemed like they were doing that at first. Before launch, mesmers were reported the only class with confusion. Thief the only class with stealth. Necro the only class with fear. Now it’s all watered down, and in fact some classes are better at things then the original class is. When they added torment, Necro was going to be the first and best. Then mesmer. Now warrior and thief are better at it then either of them.

Alacrity is supposedly going to be exclusive to the chronomancer, but who the hell are we kidding? I’ll be surprised if thief doesn’t get alacrity 3 months after HoT, followed closely by warrior and engineer.

Eponet.4829:

Mesmer: Slow, Distortion, Polymorph, Chronomancer will have alacrity

No official word (afaik) on which classes will get slow besides mesmer. Revenant has it on downed state, and might have it on other skills/traits. Polymorph is only practical in pvp and situational. And I think it’s foolish to assume alacrity will always be exclusive to mesmer. I mean come on… we are talking about mesmer here… Why would they ever let mesmer be better at a mechanic than engineer or thief? Enginer, btw, has polymorph now…

Eponet.4829:

Elementalist: Auras, Deep Freeze

Anyone with a field and a leap skill can get an aura. Hardly an ele-themed mechanic. Deep Freeze is a skill that applies chill… almost everyone has chill.

Eponet.4829:

Necromancer: Convert boons into conditions, Vampiric Aura

How many times is boon convert useful in pve? Half the time the boss’s boons are bugged and can’t be removed or changed. Vamp aura is… kinda helpful… if you are a very fast attacker with lots of hits to proc it. I’ll give you that one I guess.

Eponet.4829:

Thieves: Stealing boons

Mesmer can do this too, albeit on a longer cooldown.

Eponet.4829:

Ranger: 1500 range, Frost Spirit

1500 range is hardly useful in pve where everything is stack in melee and LOS into a corner. Frost spirit is alright. That’s 2 things I guess, if you count vamp aura.

Eponet.4829:

Warrior: Banners

Okay that’s 3 things. This one is really the strongest unique mechanic you listed, and WOW whaddya know… it’s on the warrior… Anet’s beloved profession, second only to the almighty engineer…

Eponet.4829:

Guardian: Aegis

Mesmer can get aegis as well, and so can thief if they steal from a mesmer, but I suppose guardian is still better at aegis than anyone else…

Eponet.4829:

As well as effects that are provided by only a few classes

Stealth: Mesmer/Thief/Engineer
Fear: Necromancer/Warrior/Thief (Via a steal skill)
Reflects: Mesmer/Guardian

The fact that these mechanics and abilities are shared across so many professions makes them, by definition, nonexclusive. This leads to the whole game feeling homogenized. It’s especially irritating to people like me (who main mesmer, or necro) who constantly have our “unique” mechanics stolen by the “privileged” classes (engineer, thief, warrior, guardian) who end up performing those abilities better than us.

Xenon.4537:

The fact that these mechanics and abilities are shared across so many professions makes them, by definition, nonexclusive. This leads to the whole game feeling homogenized. It’s especially irritating to people like me (who main mesmer, or necro) who constantly have our “unique” mechanics stolen by the “privileged” classes (engineer, thief, warrior, guardian) who end up performing those abilities better than us.

Many of the mechanics you are discussing are boons (that and the threat is aimed at boon/condis)…. Boons are NOT class mechanics. Mesmers unique mechanic has not been stolen by any of the 4 you mentions, unless engi/thief/war/guard can create clones and shatter them, necro is in the same boat, unless one of the “privileged” classes has death shroud and life force.

Each class has differnt mechanics and attacks, if you break down ANY game like this to the most basic level, you have… damage dealer, damage taking, buff, heal, debuff/condi, or mobility. Skills need to attempt to fall into one of these categories.

Miku.6297:

Xenon.4537:

The fact that these mechanics and abilities are shared across so many professions makes them, by definition, nonexclusive. This leads to the whole game feeling homogenized. It’s especially irritating to people like me (who main mesmer, or necro) who constantly have our “unique” mechanics stolen by the “privileged” classes (engineer, thief, warrior, guardian) who end up performing those abilities better than us.

Many of the mechanics you are discussing are boons (that and the threat is aimed at boon/condis)…. Boons are NOT class mechanics. Mesmers unique mechanic has not been stolen by any of the 4 you mentions, unless engi/thief/war/guard can create clones and shatter them, necro is in the same boat, unless one of the “privileged” classes has death shroud and life force.

Each class has differnt mechanics and attacks, if you break down ANY game like this to the most basic level, you have… damage dealer, damage taking, buff, heal, debuff/condi, or mobility. Skills need to attempt to fall into one of these categories.

I get what you are saying. You are talking about mechanics like clones, death shroud, etc. But boons are a mechanic too. The same way shouts are a mechanic in Skyrim, planting land mines in pockets is a mechanic in Fallout 3, and stealing cars is a mechanic in GTA5. Boons are simply a mechanic that is shared across many professions.

Your point is valid, I’m just saying boons are a mechanic too. “Class” mechanics are actually a subset of “combat mechanics”. Boons are also a subset of combat mechanics.

So I don’t understand why you are saying mesmers and necros unique mechanics are stolen by other classes?

" who constantly have our “unique” mechanics stolen by the “privileged” classes" You didn’t say boons, you said “unique” mechanics

I agree boons are a combat mechanic, combat mechanics are not classes specific, so I don’t understand how a class could be stealing another classes mechanics based on the ability to use boons.

Miku.6297:

So I don’t understand why you are saying mesmers and necros unique mechanics are stolen by other classes?

" who constantly have our “unique” mechanics stolen by the “privileged” classes" You didn’t say boons, you said “unique” mechanics

I agree boons are a combat mechanic, combat mechanics are not classes specific, so I don’t understand how a class could be stealing another classes mechanics based on the ability to use boons.

I was referring to how they gave confusion to warriors, engineers, and thieves. And now with perplexity runes, those classes are arguably better at confusion builds in many cases. Same thing with torment. Those things were going to be unique, but they quickly scrapped that notion for some reason.

I guess that’s a small, old example, but as a mesmer I feel like a second class citizen because my reflects can be done by guardians and engineers in a pinch. My conditions are garbage in pve. Anet is extremely fast to nerf my traits (literally 10 hours after the patch) while they are frustratingly slow to address engineer, warrior, or thief (LOL @ broken nade barrage staying for over a week).

I’ll just come out an say it, I’m biased, and I think Anet is biased with the engineer. They got so many cool trait and skill changes my brain just goes fuzzy thinking about them. And when Engie had a broken skill that let them wipe the floor in pvp, they get to keep it for a really long time and abuse the crap out of it. Meanwhile just about every cool thing the mesmer got was almost instantly destroyed. But now I think we are getting off topic…

Xenon.4537:

Eponet.4829:

Mesmer: Slow, Distortion, Polymorph, Chronomancer will have alacrity

No official word (afaik) on which classes will get slow besides mesmer. Revenant has it on downed state, and might have it on other skills/traits. Polymorph is only practical in pvp and situational. And I think it’s foolish to assume alacrity will always be exclusive to mesmer. I mean come on… we are talking about mesmer here… Why would they ever let mesmer be better at a mechanic than engineer or thief? Enginer, btw, has polymorph now…

Eponet.4829:

Elementalist: Auras, Deep Freeze

Anyone with a field and a leap skill can get an aura. Hardly an ele-themed mechanic. Deep Freeze is a skill that applies chill… almost everyone has chill.

Eponet.4829:

Necromancer: Convert boons into conditions, Vampiric Aura

How many times is boon convert useful in pve? Half the time the boss’s boons are bugged and can’t be removed or changed. Vamp aura is… kinda helpful… if you are a very fast attacker with lots of hits to proc it. I’ll give you that one I guess.

Eponet.4829:

Thieves: Stealing boons

Mesmer can do this too, albeit on a longer cooldown.

Eponet.4829:

Ranger: 1500 range, Frost Spirit

1500 range is hardly useful in pve where everything is stack in melee and LOS into a corner. Frost spirit is alright. That’s 2 things I guess, if you count vamp aura.

Eponet.4829:

Warrior: Banners

Okay that’s 3 things. This one is really the strongest unique mechanic you listed, and WOW whaddya know… it’s on the warrior… Anet’s beloved profession, second only to the almighty engineer…

Eponet.4829:

Guardian: Aegis

Mesmer can get aegis as well, and so can thief if they steal from a mesmer, but I suppose guardian is still better at aegis than anyone else…

Eponet.4829:

As well as effects that are provided by only a few classes

Stealth: Mesmer/Thief/Engineer
Fear: Necromancer/Warrior/Thief (Via a steal skill)
Reflects: Mesmer/Guardian

The fact that these mechanics and abilities are shared across so many professions makes them, by definition, nonexclusive. This leads to the whole game feeling homogenized. It’s especially irritating to people like me (who main mesmer, or necro) who constantly have our “unique” mechanics stolen by the “privileged” classes (engineer, thief, warrior, guardian) who end up performing those abilities better than us.

At the moment, Slow is only on Time Warp, and they specifically stated that they wanted alacrity to be unique to the chronomancer. From what I’ve seen, engineers transform themselves, not others, making mesmers the only class capable of countering transform effects with a single skill such as the dreaded lich form. Also I forgot about their portals, but I guess those don’t count due to not being a boon/condition.

I might have been too generic in terms of auras. Elementalists aren’t capable of creating light auras at all after all. However, the most powerful varieties become increasingly more exclusive. Frost aura can only be created by elementalists, rangers or engineers, and in the case of rangers, requires the use of an awkwardly placed trap, and in the case of engineers requires placing a mortar. Shocking auras are completely unique to elementalists.

Mesmers /can/ steal boons, but how often do you see them doing so? They simply have too many other good abilities to make arcane thievery worth the investment.

1500 range isn’t that useful in dungeons, but it’s extremely useful in PvP, which is just as much a part of the game as PvE where it manages to place them out of range of the various 1200 range teleportation blinks, forcing thieves to use an extra blink in order to close the gap.

Mesmers can get aegis, but it’s through a purely RNG method. The point of Aegis is that you time it to block specific attacks. It’s one type of boon that you really don’t want to rely on RNG to happen to give you at the right time. Thieves only have access to it through stealing from a specific class.

Engineers probably have their own unique effects, but they’re the only class that I don’t play, so I’m not versed on them well enough to determine what they are.

Yep off topic a bit, I’m a mesmer main, and actually I enjoy playing the class, I don’t feel cheated because other classes can use conditions and buffs. As long as they aren’t making clones/phants and shattering, it’s 100% fine with me. Other classes being able to fill roles in a pinch, the guardian might be thinking it’s no fair I have a reflect wall and mesmers can reflect so much more/better then I can. Most classes can fill most roles (thats a good thing for the game design A-net wants).

As far as balance and speed goes, it takes time and effort to address everything, A-net gets to what they can in the order of severity in their opinion. (the nade barrage I do agree with though, seriously why is that staying like this still).

^^ Back on topic, a condition/boon nerf just doesn’t make sense to me, it would simply turn the game into more ZERKER ZERKER ZERKER 1111111111111, which I’m 100% against… A-net could add some challenge by making it so conditions and boons were actually essential to victory (or at least helped alot more).

No OP. No. Simply no.

I could list my many reasons for this answer, but just No. I don;t want this game to be like other games. If I did, I would just play those games instead. If they ever implemented something like that, I would be done.