Guild Wars 2

First off, I have been playing since the free trial weekend, then I bought the game and I am having significantly more fun in this MMO then any other MMO I have ever played.

It ELIMINATED everything I found annoying about MMO’s.

-Stealing Resources, Boss kills and loot in dungeons. I would get annoyed when I see people harvesting resources I need to collect for a quest. This is no such concern here.

-Boring and repetitive and uninteresting quests. In al ot of mmo’s it seems that quests were one of three things:
“go here, kill this.”
“go here, Collect this.”
“Go here kill this TO collect this.”
And that included boss battles most of the time. Even WoW did that.
I receive all these tasks and there is no noticeable affect and nor does it feel like it was worth it. The only thing keeping me going in most mmo’s is the hope that “surely things will get more interesting later.” Nope, from beginning to end many mmo’s seem to be like "here is an npc, he has 15-20-30 quests for you to do, and you CANT MOVE ON UNTIL YOU FINISH EVERY ONE OF THEM! and often they send you about a mile away to complete the task! WHY!?

-(Free to play games.) They are usually either a Long and difficult (or just boring.) Grind in order to level up or get necessary resources to continue in the game, or the only way to survive is to spend real money in the game (Allods for example when you get to a pvp zone.) As soon as I realize I have to spend money to get past a grind or compete I loose interest right away.

- Subscription fees.
Why, when you already bought the game, do you ever need to spend a monthly fee? Sure they say “to release more content.” but it really should not be necessary, especially with successes like League of Legends! It proves that you don’t need a monthly fee to keep going and keep your players interested!

These and other little issues tend to keep me from getting into MMO’s. I LIKE the concept, its an mmo"RPG" It would be awesome to be able to play an rpg with potentially hundreds of people, or just your friends! make your story while sharing it with your friends and each having unique adventures!

This game eliminates all the problems mentioned above and I feel it is a near-perfect design and execution of an mmoRPG!

No, people have expressed concerns (or outright hatred and resentment) about different aspects of the game and say that they were lied to and that promises were broken, I say they may have “bent” but not “broken” the promises to a slight degree. I’ll explain these concerns and my responses.

- some people say “Its too Grindy” and have said that they feel they had been lied to about this game not being grindy.
First, based on my experience and observation, I believe they mean no REQUIRED grind in order to continue in your story. The only grind is for skins and (apparently) Ascended items, but compared to all OTHER mmo’s I have seen its nothing. world of Warcraft, some of my friends have spent months trying to aquire ONE item, but they end up with some random OTHER rare gear they can’t use or is not as good as they already have, several people have said it taken them 5 hours to get the Ascended items that are released so far. That is not Grindy when you compare it to any other mmo (that I have seen anyway.)

(next post)

- “Questing is no different then any other mmo.”
Not entirely true, sir or madam. Questing in all other mmo’s I have played has you go back and forth from point A to point B and back to A and often has you go somewhere out of your way when you may be trying to do something else, and NO ONE ELSE can help you, if they are in your party they usually have to ask “how many of this item do you need for your quest?” Then they have to back off until you finish. Then each npc in many mmo’s have you go do one quest for them at a time, maybe a few more at one time in rare cases, but it is usually a ton of back tracking going back and forth in order to complete this task and then they give you something else to do that just might be in the same area you just came from for the previous quest!

Now there are “fetch quests” in this game, but everyone in the area contributes toward it and you just have to contribute ONE item to get credit and experience. Each Task and event could take only a couple minutes if you decide to complete them, and you don’t HAVE to do the quest hearts if you don’t want to either, unless you plan on getting 100% completion in an area and get the region reward. There are usually several tasks you could do to make progress toward that task, multiple people could be working on one objective or different people could work on different objectives, whatever people do makes it finish faster so you can move on.
Also I find that most of these tasks are actually interesting and not just the usual
“go here, kill this” or “collect this” or “kill this to collect this.”
I feel like I am making meaningful progression, especially with how the events do leave a lasting effect on the world, even if it is a small thing, like who controls a fort, ogres or charr, or whether a small camp remains intact or gets destroyed by an army of ghosts.

SOO much better then the typical mmo.

- “Ascended gear break the game.”
Well, not entirely true either, the game IS more “skill based.” and if you know how to maneuver around or an opponent and dodge or know how to build up your class to counter theirs then the gear really doesn’t matter as much. if I understand correctly, the pvp which has 8v8 will not be effected, correct me if I’m wrong (with proof) but everyone there is still evenly matched gear wise.

So, why the big deal about ascended items? If someone can still pull their own weight in dungeons and other pve events WITHOUT ascended gear out of sheer skill and smart class building, why are you so concerned? Besides, if they find that it really is creating too much of a balance issue then they could just simply remove those items and compensate the players who worked hard to get them anyway if they loose them.
They have expressed concern and an interest in keeping the game fun and balanced, judging by updates that fixed several major issues.

-To long, did not listen.
Seriously, you didnt take the time to read the information above and STILL blast me and say you know better? El-Oh-El.

Alastar.2863:

if you know how to maneuver around or an opponent and dodge or know how to build up your class to counter theirs then the gear really doesn’t matter as much.

What if the other player also knows how to play his class? People are always assuming you’re playing against weaker classes or clueless players when it comes to this. Losing against an opponent in WvW will always have that “was he actually better or was it only his gear” feeling in the future (assuming ascended gear won’t be as easy to get as exotics).

Actually in WvW unless its two players on separate servers scouting and meeting and clashing 1v1, it looks like you are generally going to be fighting with an army around you then using your class and weapon abilities to help control the battle, when there are 500 v 500 v 500 players its definatley not about gear anymore unless a small handful of players face off, then skill and coordination and MAYBE some gear, but with those numbers, don’t think its as big a deal.

Iruwen.3164:

Alastar.2863:

if you know how to maneuver around or an opponent and dodge or know how to build up your class to counter theirs then the gear really doesn’t matter as much.

What if the other player also knows how to play his class? People are always assuming you’re playing against weaker classes or clueless players when it comes to this. Losing against an opponent in WvW will always have that “was he actually better or was it only his gear” feeling in the future (assuming ascended gear won’t be as easy to get as exotics).

The gear is going to give them what… 45 extra points towards his overall stats? If the battle isn’t won by a landslide, then the loser should just assume there was a way to win and that they should find it for next time.

Wondering if it’s gear that made someone else win is an excuse for people to continue not being the best player of their class… one should always strive for better and if you think that’s not possible then there should be nothing to worry about.

Because if you did your best and can’t think of any improvement and still lost, the devs have yet to finish balancing this game and it’s more likely their fault than any gear difference.

I agree with the OP about everything.
Great game got even better since last update. For me ascended gear = more stuff to aim for, and more progression on my main char, I don’t care if its progress stat wise or cooler skins. If they give me a chance to get better stats, I’ll gladly take it and not moan like a 12 year old on the forums.

Nice post.

Alastar.2863:

- “Questing is no different then any other mmo.”
Not entirely true, sir or madam. Questing in all other mmo’s I have played has you go back and forth from point A to point B and back to A and often has you go somewhere out of your way when you may be trying to do something else, and NO ONE ELSE can help you, if they are in your party they usually have to ask “how many of this item do you need for your quest?” Then they have to back off until you finish. Then each npc in many mmo’s have you go do one quest for them at a time, maybe a few more at one time in rare cases, but it is usually a ton of back tracking going back and forth in order to complete this task and then they give you something else to do that just might be in the same area you just came from for the previous quest!

Now there are “fetch quests” in this game, but everyone in the area contributes toward it and you just have to contribute ONE item to get credit and experience. Each Task and event could take only a couple minutes if you decide to complete them, and you don’t HAVE to do the quest hearts if you don’t want to either, unless you plan on getting 100% completion in an area and get the region reward. There are usually several tasks you could do to make progress toward that task, multiple people could be working on one objective or different people could work on different objectives, whatever people do makes it finish faster so you can move on.
Also I find that most of these tasks are actually interesting and not just the usual
“go here, kill this” or “collect this” or “kill this to collect this.”
I feel like I am making meaningful progression, especially with how the events do leave a lasting effect on the world, even if it is a small thing, like who controls a fort, ogres or charr, or whether a small camp remains intact or gets destroyed by an army of ghosts.

SOO much better then the typical mmo.

- “Ascended gear break the game.”
Well, not entirely true either, the game IS more “skill based.” and if you know how to maneuver around or an opponent and dodge or know how to build up your class to counter theirs then the gear really doesn’t matter as much. if I understand correctly, the pvp which has 8v8 will not be effected, correct me if I’m wrong (with proof) but everyone there is still evenly matched gear wise.

So, why the big deal about ascended items? If someone can still pull their own weight in dungeons and other pve events WITHOUT ascended gear out of sheer skill and smart class building, why are you so concerned? Besides, if they find that it really is creating too much of a balance issue then they could just simply remove those items and compensate the players who worked hard to get them anyway if they loose them.
They have expressed concern and an interest in keeping the game fun and balanced, judging by updates that fixed several major issues.

-To long, did not listen.
Seriously, you didnt take the time to read the information above and STILL blast me and say you know better? El-Oh-El.

Seems your experiences with other mmo’s is limited to only wow and its clones. Your knowledge of the Guild Wars franchise seems naive and uninformed. You think gear doesn’t matter go play without it and see how far you can get.

What you see happening in Guild Wars II is The Law of Unintended Consequence it is the e=mc² of intellectual processes ergo words put into action have consequences.

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Iruwen.3164:

Alastar.2863:

if you know how to maneuver around or an opponent and dodge or know how to build up your class to counter theirs then the gear really doesn’t matter as much.

What if the other player also knows how to play his class? People are always assuming you’re playing against weaker classes or clueless players when it comes to this. Losing against an opponent in WvW will always have that “was he actually better or was it only his gear” feeling in the future (assuming ascended gear won’t be as easy to get as exotics).

The gear is going to give them what… 45 extra points towards his overall stats? If the battle isn’t won by a landslide, then the loser should just assume there was a way to win and that they should find it for next time.

Wondering if it’s gear that made someone else win is an excuse for people to continue not being the best player of their class… one should always strive for better and if you think that’s not possible then there should be nothing to worry about.

Because if you did your best and can’t think of any improvement and still lost, the devs have yet to finish balancing this game and it’s more likely their fault than any gear difference.

if everyone starts out with a baseline of 100 or a 1000 total stat points 45 more is a huge difference maker whether its 50% or 10% matters not the difference is the same.

Heres an example simplified so even a laymen can understand. You take 2 players same class , same trait distribution, same everything cept gear put one in full exotic and put other in ascended now simultaneously hit each other using same attack the person with the higher power, crit and health pool will always last longer no if’s and or but’s.

I love the way you suggested that they ‘“bent” but [had] not “broken” the promises to a slight degree.’

It reminded me of the Monty Python sketch the ministry of silly walks. No matter how silly the walk or the reason for the ministry, everything was conducted with a very straight face.

Sometimes the way people attempt to justify something obviously wrong on the face of it, with a straight face, simply amuses me. But, anyway, thanks for the memory. I love Monty Python.

Asglarek.8976:

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Iruwen.3164:

Alastar.2863:

if you know how to maneuver around or an opponent and dodge or know how to build up your class to counter theirs then the gear really doesn’t matter as much.

What if the other player also knows how to play his class? People are always assuming you’re playing against weaker classes or clueless players when it comes to this. Losing against an opponent in WvW will always have that “was he actually better or was it only his gear” feeling in the future (assuming ascended gear won’t be as easy to get as exotics).

The gear is going to give them what… 45 extra points towards his overall stats? If the battle isn’t won by a landslide, then the loser should just assume there was a way to win and that they should find it for next time.

Wondering if it’s gear that made someone else win is an excuse for people to continue not being the best player of their class… one should always strive for better and if you think that’s not possible then there should be nothing to worry about.

Because if you did your best and can’t think of any improvement and still lost, the devs have yet to finish balancing this game and it’s more likely their fault than any gear difference.

if everyone starts out with a baseline of 100 or a 1000 total stat points 45 more is a huge difference maker whether its 50% or 10% matters not the difference is the same.

Heres an example simplified so even a laymen can understand. You take 2 players same class , same trait distribution, same everything cept gear put one in full exotic and put other in ascended now simultaneously hit each other using same attack the person with the higher power, crit and health pool will always last longer no if’s and or but’s.

That is why they have dodge rolls and you don’t sit still in one place the whole time. Also, what are the chances of two people having the EXACT same traits, abilities and strategies? Gear DOES have a noticeable difference, whether its big or small, but with how they made combat here skill is important. Also, based on one post under “announcements” here on the forums, pvp is NOT going to be affected by the Ascended gear at the present time (they said that it may be implemented into wvw, but with the number of players in WvW gear really doesn’t matter nearly as much there. Sounds like they are testing things out for the time being.

Raine.1394:

I love the way you suggested that they ‘“bent” but [had] not “broken” the promises to a slight degree.’

It reminded me of the Monty Python sketch the ministry of silly walks. No matter how silly the walk or the reason for the ministry, everything was conducted with a very straight face.

Sometimes the way people attempt to justify something obviously wrong on the face of it, with a straight face, simply amuses me. But, anyway, thanks for the memory. I love Monty Python.

I said in the post that if I missed something or was outright wrong you can correct me and explain how.

Also, by “bent the rules” I only ment the occasional “fetch event” and other little things.
otherwise I really don’t see a grind or the usual quest design most mmo’s that I have played have done and I think they kept their promises and this is, in my opinion, the best MMO I have ever played.

Alastar.2863:

Asglarek.8976:

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Iruwen.3164:

Alastar.2863:

if you know how to maneuver around or an opponent and dodge or know how to build up your class to counter theirs then the gear really doesn’t matter as much.

What if the other player also knows how to play his class? People are always assuming you’re playing against weaker classes or clueless players when it comes to this. Losing against an opponent in WvW will always have that “was he actually better or was it only his gear” feeling in the future (assuming ascended gear won’t be as easy to get as exotics).

The gear is going to give them what… 45 extra points towards his overall stats? If the battle isn’t won by a landslide, then the loser should just assume there was a way to win and that they should find it for next time.

Wondering if it’s gear that made someone else win is an excuse for people to continue not being the best player of their class… one should always strive for better and if you think that’s not possible then there should be nothing to worry about.

Because if you did your best and can’t think of any improvement and still lost, the devs have yet to finish balancing this game and it’s more likely their fault than any gear difference.

if everyone starts out with a baseline of 100 or a 1000 total stat points 45 more is a huge difference maker whether its 50% or 10% matters not the difference is the same.

Heres an example simplified so even a laymen can understand. You take 2 players same class , same trait distribution, same everything cept gear put one in full exotic and put other in ascended now simultaneously hit each other using same attack the person with the higher power, crit and health pool will always last longer no if’s and or but’s.

That is why they have dodge rolls and you don’t sit still in one place the whole time. Also, what are the chances of two people having the EXACT same traits, abilities and strategies? Gear DOES have a noticeable difference, whether its big or small, but with how they made combat here skill is important. Also, based on one post under “announcements” here on the forums, pvp is NOT going to be affected by the Ascended gear at the present time (they said that it may be implemented into wvw, but with the number of players in WvW gear really doesn’t matter nearly as much there. Sounds like they are testing things out for the time being.

I think the assumption is that they are identical in every way. So, their skill in playing the game is equal; they both know how and when to dodge. The one with the better gear (even if only slightly better) will always prevail. That’s why they have metrics around gear scores in grindy games. Everyone knows that having better gear gives the player an edge.

Alastar.2863:

First off, I have been playing since the free trial weekend, then I bought the game and I am having significantly more fun in this MMO then any other MMO I have ever played.

It ELIMINATED everything I found annoying about MMO’s.

…

Hi. Glad to hear some newcomers to the game are still enjoying it. I’d be very curious to know what you’re thoughts are after spending over 400 hours in the game. Playing through all personal story chapters, doing all events. With all due respect, some of your observations are solid but you’re still in the “honeymoon phase” with this game.

A big thing to note as well, is that we aren’t dealing with 1, 5, or 10 points of damage on a normal attack.

We are looking at attacks that deal 500, 1000, or 2500.

Let’s say we both have 20,000 HP. If I’m hitting you for 2500 and you’re hitting me for 2600, we’re still going down at the same time after 8 hits.

2500 × 8 = 25000
2600 × 8 = 25800

So more often then not, with the frequency and high number of damage, the slight percent increase will only win you the battle in those cases where you would have left your opponent with a fraction of health.

Is it going to be a difference in power? Yes. Is it going to mean that battles which were previous 50/50 are going to turn into 90/10 in favor of the ascended? No. Not unless they make the gear WAY more powerful AND let you equip runes in the armor too, because the ascended armor wearers will suddenly lose out on utility by not having runes/sigils.

you were right on the mark until you reached the end.

Ascended gear is a problem for multiple reasons and not simply because it was added to the game with higher stats, tho that does present a very LARGE issue in wvw.

Right before they added ascended gear they performed a series of stealth nerfs and some announced ones.

They added DR claimed it was due to bots, they broke magic find, they reduced drops to almost 0% chance from open world mobs, they prevented magic find from affecting chest drops, and they claimed they’ve increased the drop rates from champions and veterans but so far all I’ve received is the same crap that i’d receive from any other normal mob making fighting those things useless unless karma as a reward is involved. They nerfed the number of globs of ecto per item to less then 30%. (out of ten items salvaged you might get 3-4 globs now if anything. I recently salvaged 4 level 80 rares and got 0 globs, at that rate one can’t progress at all)

So basically that leaves us with a single play style to progress in the game. dungeons.

The drop rates in dungeons are the only way to actually receive rewards for your time.

So what do people do in response to this, they play fractals not just for the infused gear but also for the chance at getting drops they can make a legendary with. (keep in mind when i say drops i mean rares, items that give use globs of ecto.)

So it’s not solely about the infused armors being better, it’s more about the fact they have not only made a single viable spec per class to play by destroying cond builds, but they have also made only a single viable way of progressing in the game.

This is supposed to be a game filled with choices and for the most part it is until the end game. It’s so confusing what they have done to progression and to any other spec other then burst damage specs because the end game has even fewer choices now then ever.

tigirius.9014:

you were right on the mark until you reached the end.

<snip>
Right before they added ascended gear they performed a series of stealth nerfs and some announced ones.

They added DR claimed it was due to bots, they broke magic find, they reduced drops to almost 0% chance from open world mobs, they prevented magic find from affecting chest drops, and they claimed they’ve increased the drop rates from champions and veterans but so far all I’ve received is the same crap that i’d receive from any other normal mob making fighting those things useless unless karma as a reward is involved. <snip>

So basically that leaves us with a single play style to progress in the game. dungeons.

The drop rates in dungeons are the only way to actually receive rewards for your time.

<snip>
This is supposed to be a game filled with choices and for the most part it is until the end game. It’s so confusing what they have done to progression and to any other spec other then burst damage specs because the end game has even fewer choices now then ever.

This is what’s killing the game for me, my highest character is still only 50ish with the rest close behind so I don’t feel qualified to comment on the new ascended gear yet, but since the DR really kicked in(and where’d all the dyes go, I haven’t seen more than a few across four characters in weeks now) and the simple fact that I despise dungeons of all kinds to the point that you could put another Ancient Karka reward in one and I still wouldn’t go, adds up to me barely logging in anymore.

It’s a shame really because imo LoTRO has turned into nothing but a money grab with their ftp concept that actually deters their longtime vips from subscribing and WoW with it’s now third major overhaul of specs etc that just has me burned out from trying to respec, let alone find all the new armour and weapons needed as a result of it, for over 60 toons again and I had thought that I had finally found a new home in GW2.

As usual I’ll hang on for at least a few months and hope for the best… but I won’t hold my breath, beancounters don’t care if a few fans turn blue and/or pass out but hopefully they will notice my absence from the cash shop.

The thing is that this discussion isn’t about right or wrong when it comes to your personal opinion.

OP, you explain your feelings in much detail, but it’s how you see things. That is right for you, but just because it works for you, doesn’t mean that it works for others. Many discussions go wrong over this point. It works for you? Great. That doesn’t make it work for me.

And I have no issue with people being ok or loving gear progression. What I am not ok with is that because they feel it’s ok, that others shouldn’t complain about it. As if their opinion invalidates someone else’s.

The whole point revolves around what Anet promised for many years and what they are actually doing. Some think it’s ok or great and for others who bought the game for what Anet promised it to be, it’s simply a slap in the face.

You don’t get why people are upset? Ok, you can’t get other people all the time either. But just know that what works for you doesn’t make it a template for mankind.

If you discover that it’s ok for you like this then that’s great. But don’t go down the road where you think “if I can do it, so can everybody else”.

Trust me, I don’t know what music you listen to but if you like pop music and I replace your CD collection with metal music, I think you might be upset. Is that too extreme? Well, maybe you like one band and then we replace all your cd with another band from the same genre…just not the band you like.

Even if other people like that band, doesn’t mean you like it too. This is the same thing. GW2, like GW1, was not about gear progression. Now GW2 is. It’s a different type of game in the same genre.

I am sure that even if you don’t have to get the new gear, the vast majority is doing what they can to get it and ignoring the rest of Tyria so they can get those ascended items. And when enough people get them, the next ascended items will be introduced and it starts all over again. Even if they don’t have to, people will do it because they feel they want or have to. And that’s exactly how GW1 didn’t work and GW2 didn’t in the first few months.

It’s really a different game now than last month.

Yes, the game’s great. It certainly was, and I haven’t given up hope just yet. Let’s hope NCSoft doesn’t gamble it away and turn it into another clone… because if they think this is a success, they’ll demand more. Guess they’re treadmill grinders in their own right.

“Others do it far worse” is not quite an argument to do something, is it?

Asglarek.8976:

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Iruwen.3164:

Alastar.2863:

if you know how to maneuver around or an opponent and dodge or know how to build up your class to counter theirs then the gear really doesn’t matter as much.

What if the other player also knows how to play his class? People are always assuming you’re playing against weaker classes or clueless players when it comes to this. Losing against an opponent in WvW will always have that “was he actually better or was it only his gear” feeling in the future (assuming ascended gear won’t be as easy to get as exotics).

The gear is going to give them what… 45 extra points towards his overall stats? If the battle isn’t won by a landslide, then the loser should just assume there was a way to win and that they should find it for next time.

Wondering if it’s gear that made someone else win is an excuse for people to continue not being the best player of their class… one should always strive for better and if you think that’s not possible then there should be nothing to worry about.

Because if you did your best and can’t think of any improvement and still lost, the devs have yet to finish balancing this game and it’s more likely their fault than any gear difference.

if everyone starts out with a baseline of 100 or a 1000 total stat points 45 more is a huge difference maker whether its 50% or 10% matters not the difference is the same.

Heres an example simplified so even a laymen can understand. You take 2 players same class , same trait distribution, same everything cept gear put one in full exotic and put other in ascended now simultaneously hit each other using same attack the person with the higher power, crit and health pool will always last longer no if’s and or but’s.

Standing still sure… but I’ve performed better than people with a full set of exotics when all I had was masterwork – and now that I have a full set of exotics I’ll still perform better than people with a full set of ascended. Trait distribution doesn’t matter – this game isn’t about automatically generated die rolls. If you want to be good at your profession you have to earn it not calculate it and that is where you will constantly fail if you choose to not get better.

I was like the OP once I was a big supporter, been following the development of GW2 for years, been in all the beta events ~ purchased the digital deluxe edition and everything was great for the first 2 months (more or less) ~ then all this happened and the happy marriage between player and game ended with a bitter divorce. Lets see what happens during the next few weeks ~ and I’m guessing, many other players will be watching and waiting too.

Sold as a non-grindy game…those who rushed to 80 to farm karma/gold made out like bandits…those who cheated and abused the game made out like bandits…

Luckily, I made it to 80 when it cost about 5-6 gold to make a full set of exotic crafted armor and I could make 3-5 gold in 1-3 hours farming dynamics with my 150% magic find gear…things have changed…

It takes 30 vials of powerful blood to make a full set of Berserker Armor, and at 25 silver+ each vial, that’s 7 gold 50 silver just for that. Along with 30 Globs of Ectoplasm at about 25s each as well, that’s 15 gold to make your set. I just did some dynamics for about 2 hours solid, and made around 1 gold 40 silver. That’s with +150% magic find on my items/food.

Sure got a heck of a lot grindier to me. “Go to FotM to make gold,” but I prefer a more relaxed setting doing open world content…so when that content is driven away, so is my relaxation.

What’s the point of Dynamic Events if you’re making instancing so much more better to aquire items…what’s the point of magic find gear with such harsh diminishing returns…

Even though precursor weapons for Legendaries got easier to aquire, the materials got a ton harder, thus doubling the work to aquire the Legendaries…if not more with the dynamic event nerfs making Karma farming take forever, turning it into a grind. I’m all for Legendaries retaining their Legendary status…but when it takes forever to make an exotic set for those who didn’t rush to end-game, it’s absurd.

Now, I have not reached that point in the game yet, but based on what I read in one of the “Announcements” that the ascended gear will NOT affect PVP at the present time.

There are only a few things I hear concerns about (and only in the forum.) regarding the Ascended gear.

1: Grind.
Based on comments I have read around the forums, it seems that the average amount of time it takes to FIND an ascended item is about 5 hours. Compare that to Potentially MONTHS in ANY OTHER MMO! One friend mentioned that he had been searching for particular items in different dungeons in World of Warcraft and he plays through that same dungeon for months and gets nothing of value. in WoW there are countless weapon sets and legendaries, each one is more powerful then the last and everyone grinds for them but it takes countless hours to find ANYTHING. With Ascended gear you have one clear item set you are looking for and you know where it can be found. this is FAR more reasonable then most other mmo’s.
From what I have seen so far dungeon loot is very good and, if nothing else, could be sold for a decent sum in the Trading post if you can’t use it.

2: PvP becomes unbalanced (or) players without it are useless. (their words, not mine.)
According to this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451
PvP will NOT be affected by Ascended gear. So the arguments regarding how it gives someone an unfair advantage in pvp is useless when ascended gear doesn’t even EXIST in pvp, with the exception of WvW eventually, but thats 500v500v500 so with that many players it REALLY doesn’t matter whether or not YOU have Ascended gear or not when you have a full SERVER to coordinate with.

(IF ASCENDED IS IN PVP OUTSIDE OF WvW TELL ME THE DETAILS AND HOW IT WORKS.)

About pve being effected: How useful was your exotics before? If they were excellent before then there should be no reason why you can’t continue to use them and be efficient enough with them still. If you don’t want to grind for them then don’t. It only effects pve from what I can understand. You don’t need to be picky about the type of gear someone has, just whether or not they are competent with what they have.

3: Ascended is required to access certain content.
Basic response here: from everything I have seen and heard, it is ONLY required past a certain point in the new dungeon (which is infinite, says the devs.) NO WHERE ELSE is the gear a requirement.

So, personally, seems like Ascended is just something extra to work for IF YOU WANT TO.
Does not effect pvp outside wvw, is not required for survival, just past a certain point in a dungeon if you REALLY want to, and the grind for ascended is nothing compared to the grind in ALL OTHER mmos (that I have played anyway.)

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Asglarek.8976:

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Iruwen.3164:

Alastar.2863:

if you know how to maneuver around or an opponent and dodge or know how to build up your class to counter theirs then the gear really doesn’t matter as much.

What if the other player also knows how to play his class? People are always assuming you’re playing against weaker classes or clueless players when it comes to this. Losing against an opponent in WvW will always have that “was he actually better or was it only his gear” feeling in the future (assuming ascended gear won’t be as easy to get as exotics).

The gear is going to give them what… 45 extra points towards his overall stats? If the battle isn’t won by a landslide, then the loser should just assume there was a way to win and that they should find it for next time.

Wondering if it’s gear that made someone else win is an excuse for people to continue not being the best player of their class… one should always strive for better and if you think that’s not possible then there should be nothing to worry about.

Because if you did your best and can’t think of any improvement and still lost, the devs have yet to finish balancing this game and it’s more likely their fault than any gear difference.

if everyone starts out with a baseline of 100 or a 1000 total stat points 45 more is a huge difference maker whether its 50% or 10% matters not the difference is the same.

Heres an example simplified so even a laymen can understand. You take 2 players same class , same trait distribution, same everything cept gear put one in full exotic and put other in ascended now simultaneously hit each other using same attack the person with the higher power, crit and health pool will always last longer no if’s and or but’s.

Standing still sure… but I’ve performed better than people with a full set of exotics when all I had was masterwork – and now that I have a full set of exotics I’ll still perform better than people with a full set of ascended. Trait distribution doesn’t matter – this game isn’t about automatically generated die rolls. If you want to be good at your profession you have to earn it not calculate it and that is where you will constantly fail if you choose to not get better.

‘performed better’ implies you were more skilled when the guy you are replying to is being quite specific that both have the same skill. I don’t know why you’re talking in circles because he’s right, in a situation where everything else is equal even a minor stat increase WILL decide between a win or a loss. There is really no discussion to be had about it. If skill and build are equal then stats are the only thing left to decide the fight.

Just a suggestion?

Don’t argue the point on Ascended gear. Just don’t. It’s not worth the headache, you’re going to get a limited amount of respect from most people on the topic at best, and at worst you will go down forever as being “wrong”.

Wrong. On the Internet.

There is no escaping that, ever.

Alberel Leonhart.9640:

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Asglarek.8976:

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Iruwen.3164:

Alastar.2863:

if you know how to maneuver around or an opponent and dodge or know how to build up your class to counter theirs then the gear really doesn’t matter as much.

What if the other player also knows how to play his class? People are always assuming you’re playing against weaker classes or clueless players when it comes to this. Losing against an opponent in WvW will always have that “was he actually better or was it only his gear” feeling in the future (assuming ascended gear won’t be as easy to get as exotics).

The gear is going to give them what… 45 extra points towards his overall stats? If the battle isn’t won by a landslide, then the loser should just assume there was a way to win and that they should find it for next time.

Wondering if it’s gear that made someone else win is an excuse for people to continue not being the best player of their class… one should always strive for better and if you think that’s not possible then there should be nothing to worry about.

Because if you did your best and can’t think of any improvement and still lost, the devs have yet to finish balancing this game and it’s more likely their fault than any gear difference.

if everyone starts out with a baseline of 100 or a 1000 total stat points 45 more is a huge difference maker whether its 50% or 10% matters not the difference is the same.

Heres an example simplified so even a laymen can understand. You take 2 players same class , same trait distribution, same everything cept gear put one in full exotic and put other in ascended now simultaneously hit each other using same attack the person with the higher power, crit and health pool will always last longer no if’s and or but’s.

Standing still sure… but I’ve performed better than people with a full set of exotics when all I had was masterwork – and now that I have a full set of exotics I’ll still perform better than people with a full set of ascended. Trait distribution doesn’t matter – this game isn’t about automatically generated die rolls. If you want to be good at your profession you have to earn it not calculate it and that is where you will constantly fail if you choose to not get better.

‘performed better’ implies you were more skilled when the guy you are replying to is being quite specific that both have the same skill. I don’t know why you’re talking in circles because he’s right, in a situation where everything else is equal even a minor stat increase WILL decide between a win or a loss. There is really no discussion to be had about it. If skill and build are equal then stats are the only thing left to decide the fight.

But WHEN in an MMO is the combat condition 100% identical? NO ONE will play exactly like another player, the closest is copying a build someone made and posted to youtube. By skill I mean you know when and where to dodge, what abilities to activate when, and how to coordinate with your team. A
Also weapon skills are unique to the different classes and can have different effects in battles, there are CONDITIONS and BOONS to consider as well, like Retaliation, Burn, Bleed, Blindness, and many other effects. Example, a Guardian with a warhammer could use Banish to knock the player back and buy himself a few seconds to follow up with something else. there are many abilities and effects to consider and NO ONE will ever be identical.

Also, Ascended is not in PVP outside of WvW (if they allowed Ascended in WvW yet.) if the information here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451
Is still good.

Alastar.2863:

So the arguments regarding how it gives someone an unfair advantage in pvp is useless when ascended gear doesn’t even EXIST in pvp, with the exception of WvW eventually, but thats 500v500v500 so with that many players it REALLY doesn’t matter whether or not YOU have Ascended gear or not when you have a full SERVER to coordinate with.

That’s just wrong. You don’t fight 500 people in WvW, you’re often fighting small groups or single players. Not everybody is in the main zerg. And especially an organized group will always have the best gear, so the stat bonuses from multiple players even sum up.

Alastar replied to the last person that replied to me quite sufficiently – the point that people try to compare people that are identical in skill as well as build is the flaw in their argument no one is the same thus a small inbalance in stats isn’t enough to concern some of us who already out perform others.

3: Ascended is required to access certain content.
Basic response here: from everything I have seen and heard, it is ONLY required past a certain point in the new dungeon (which is infinite, says the devs.) NO WHERE ELSE is the gear a requirement.
So, personally, seems like Ascended is just something extra to work for IF YOU WANT TO.
Does not effect pvp outside wvw, is not required for survival, just past a certain point in a dungeon if you REALLY want to, and the grind for ascended is nothing compared to the grind in ALL OTHER mmos (that I have played anyway.)

Responding to this is the problem I personally have with the gear. Yes currently it doesn’t affect access to content outside that one dungeon. That one dungeon has been added to this game in it’s 3rd month – and believing that is the end of such content type being released is folly. They WILL continue to release content that those of us with no wish to waste our time grinding for ‘best stats’ will not have access to.

I want to have fun playing this game, I enjoyed the FotM dungeon but don’t play it anymore simply as a boycott of this gear treadmill… if I have to get a new tier just to continue playing new content I won’t be playing anything new.

The only way that this gear can be saved whilst not further upsetting casual players is in my opinion only possible, when Anet announces that all new content will be playable without said gear – and that as with this first dungeon the only content unavailable will be the harder versions of future content to be released. Until I see something like that from an official source – you won’t see me in new content.

My loss I know – just how it is.

Edit – man I need to spellcheck first

Having lost some of the most basic of MMO items such as addons, macros, and the lack of an actual dungeon/group finder is really key to my own personal longevity in this game.

I downloaded the latest event patch… logged in for literally 3 mins enough to walk to the new dungeon… and see how terrible the game feels with no basic MMO functions… then logged out again.

Downloaded the expac to another MMO (not WOW) and am having an absolute blast with addons, macros, complex builds, and gasp REAL progression again.

I might play this game again if they ever decide to incorporate those basic MMO functions back into it.

People are upset because when the game first came out, the max level gear was easy to obtain in multiple ways. People could then run around doing whatever it was they felt like doing, whether it was collecting the dungeon sets for the skins or working towards crafting a Legendary (which was not more powerful than an exotic) or just doing WvW.

Now, however, people feel like they are being forced to grind FotM in order to get the Ascended gear so they can remain competitive. The fear is you will have to have Ascended in order to do WvW or you’ll get steamrolled by someone who is in full Ascended gear. You’ll have to get Ascended gear in order to even do the older dungeon content because Players will require it to group with them.

People who don’t want to run fractals or don’t like the dungeon now feel forced to do them.

It’s affected the community and the feel of the game.

Even if I wanted to join the grind, I couldn’t because at least yesterday, nobody wanted to start the fractals from level one.

another concern like mentioned a few comments above, issues with progression.

In my personal experience I feel that this game actually has fun and MEANINGFUL progression. I don’t know what is different about progression in the different classes and what people are doing differently though, tell me how it affects you.

No npc’s that give you 20 quests and you CAN’T progress through the game until you finish them, then repeat with another npc. Rewards are really good, tons of experience for each event and task, and each time I completed a story quest I got something that I could use to replace something that I was currently equipped with (except for the one handed mace after speaking to the pale tree and seeing a vision of Orr.) I also find that leveling is pretty fast, work on events and tasks and craft items and explore and discover new things and getting 100% in a region yields decent rewards, as well as completing the dailies (which seem to be completed just while I go about my usual work in the game.

Another thing, just on the side, it seems like alot of people are comparing this game to itself and saying how it is disappointing but they don’t consider how other mmo’s go about things differently. And again on the grind, it is not REQUIRED grind. You don’t need the ascended gear if you don’t want to go through the fractals, and that gear does not affect pvp. In WvW There are too many people and too much going on to really consider any gear when there are Cannons, Trebucheas, catapults, siege golems, arrow carts and other things that are insanely powerful regardless of your equipment. Plus you never stand still, in an mmo everyone makes a unique build to them, everyone allocates traits differently, and many other differences really make the equipment in WvW not very significant. If you don’t want to have to work toward the ascended, DON’T. Plenty of other options and since you don’t need it to compete in pvp since it doesn’t exist.

anyway, consider this when you have issues with little aspects of the game:
Can you name an mmo that is LESS of a REQUIRED grind then GW2?
Can you name an MMO that allows you to explore and be rewarded more then GW2?
Do you enjoy the game until you heard about the Ascended and told yourself its required?

(if you say World of Warcraft is less of a grind. . . seriously? people can go through the same dungeon for MONTHS and find NOTHING of value! Here it sounds like it is a matter of hours before you find something of value in the Fractals, on average based on what people are saying on this forums.)

I don’t understand the rage over ascended. Having in mind that it’s used to resist agony and never has toughness, using it in WvW makes you weaker than a person with exotics. It’s useful only in dungeons and is far from game breaking.

To the people saying: two players are never equally matched, so there is always an imbalance, the ascended stats are not that much higher, it should not matter:

Personally I feel it comes down to this: If one gets outplayed, that’s fine. You both had access to the same things, same number of trait points, same gear, so if you got beat, it’s on you. You need to improve.
Having people out there that can potentially have better stats then you is like being stupid rich and dating… you always have that nagging suspicion that maybe, just maybe, they only like you for the money.

Not surprisingly, many rich people prefer not to let on that they are rich when meeting potential dates; while conversely others like to throw their wealth in people’s faces.

Can you see how it could matter now?

Amonde Daneren.2380:

To the people saying: two players are never equally matched, so there is always an imbalance, the ascended stats are not that much higher, it should not matter:

Personally I feel it comes down to this: If one gets outplayed, that’s fine. You both had access to the same things, same number of trait points, same gear, so if you got beat, it’s on you. You need to improve.
Having people out there that can potentially have better stats then you is like being stupid rich and dating… you always have that nagging suspicion that maybe, just maybe, they only like you for the money.

Not surprisingly, many rich people prefer not to let on that they are rich when meeting potential dates; while conversely others like to throw their wealth in people’s faces.

Can you see how it could matter now?

No I dont. When I played shadowbane and everyone had the new shiny purple rogue gear..I used to like wearing the older gear with slightly lesser stats and owning them. I used to hunt the purple gear all day long and kill people in the area with the mobs that spawned it just to kill everyone who came with it on. I got killed several times by people who had the gear and some who didnt that just had greater skill, i tipped my hat and sent them a tell saying “hey man, great fight”.

I didnt need a crutch or excuse to lean on and I still dont. An extra 20 pts in 3 different stats is a joke to be talking about balance over right now. Being angry over the principle of being lied to, I get it..I never bought into the manifesto and I never liked Gw1 outside of PvP, I still understand believing in something. Saying its over not being balanced seems like inviting weakness and excuses into your dojo.

Good to see your dojo is full of pawning noobs with your crushing skill. Be sure to keep up the good work in GW2.

Aphix.9846:

I agree with the OP about everything.
Great game got even better since last update. For me ascended gear = more stuff to aim for, and more progression on my main char, I don’t care if its progress stat wise or cooler skins. If they give me a chance to get better stats, I’ll gladly take it and not moan like a 12 year old on the forums.

Nice post.

I also completely agree with OP on all.

I love the ascended gear and new dungeons. I also love the new agony damage I think they did a brilliant job with this, I like the fact that if you are skilled you can dodge the moves that causes it.

It’s also great that if you our more of a casual player you can still do the dungeon on lower difficulty and not miss out on doing them.

ThePainTrain.8190:

Aphix.9846:

I agree with the OP about everything.
Great game got even better since last update. For me ascended gear = more stuff to aim for, and more progression on my main char, I don’t care if its progress stat wise or cooler skins. If they give me a chance to get better stats, I’ll gladly take it and not moan like a 12 year old on the forums.

Nice post.

I also completely agree with OP on all.

I love the ascended gear and new dungeons. I also love the new agony damage I think they did a brilliant job with this, I like the fact that if you are skilled you can dodge the moves that causes it.

It’s also great that if you our more of a casual player you can still do the dungeon on lower difficulty and not miss out on doing them.

I also do not think the stats different s makes that much difference in WvW. For a laugh me and my friends decided to go to WvW in our rare’s to see the difference it made form exotics.

And surprisingly it did not make that much difference, we were able to kill just as much as we could in our exotics and ascended jewellery.

I still think skill matters the most.

If the stat boots on ascended are so minor that they don’t mean anything and won’t affect skill or anything else, why not simply remove them? Thanks. Look forward to your answer.

Amonde Daneren.2380:

Good to see your dojo is full of pawning noobs with your crushing skill. Be sure to keep up the good work in GW2.

actually people that came after the purple gear were usually vets because they were doing what I was doing..and it didnt come out until SB was FTP which meant pretty much everybody left was a killer…no noobs left, they didnt survive noobie island.

NaughtyProwler.8653:

If the stat boots on ascended are so minor that they don’t mean anything and won’t affect skill or anything else, why not simply remove them? Thanks. Look forward to your answer.

Why to remove extra content? It’s something new to reach for. I have full exotics and I’m a level 80. I would like to reach for legendary even though it’s nothing more but a skin. I do not do better than people with rares and greens, but I feel like I’ve achieved something by putting work into making and getting it.

My response to common spoken concerns in GW2:

Stopped playing a few days after I hit level-80.
Haven’t played in weeks (months even).
I will never buy any gems or invest real money into anything ArenaNet creates.
I will never buy an expansion pack.
I will never recommend the game to anyone else.

There, that fixed my problems with GW2.
(I’m only checking the forums here once in a while, when I’m a bit bored).
(Oh, and my common concerns with GW2 have been mentioned a lot on these forums: basically the pve gameplay designers are clueless how to make a game fun. You won’t read much about it anymore, because the majority of players have left long ago (to never return), and only people with low standards are left here).

Amonde Daneren.2380:

Personally I feel it comes down to this: If one gets outplayed, that’s fine. You both had access to the same things, same number of trait points, same gear, so if you got beat, it’s on you. You need to improve.

That was my original point coming into this thread, complaining about the difference in stats makes no difference because you can always learn to make up for that difference through more practice and/or learning your profession better.

People really think this gear is going to sweep through one side of WvW as if one server has access to it while others don’t. The grind is not encouraged for anyone who either doesn’t want it or isn’t an elitist – problem being this game is over full of elistists.

Blocking people from playing through dungeons and such just because they don’t have superior gear… which I will again reiterate is my true only problem with this new tier. Unless Anet announces (or proves) that all new content can be enjoyed by all tiers of gamers – the fact that there’s even a trend towards the requirement of this gear to play any content is why I boycott it.

Gryz.8376:

My response to common spoken concerns in GW2:

Stopped playing a few days after I hit level-80.
Haven’t played in weeks (months even).
I will never buy any gems or invest real money into anything ArenaNet creates.
I will never buy an expansion pack.
I will never recommend the game to anyone else.

There, that fixed my problems with GW2.
(I’m only checking the forums here once in a while, when I’m a bit bored).
(Oh, and my common concerns with GW2 have been mentioned a lot on these forums: basically the pve gameplay designers are clueless how to make a game fun. You won’t read much about it anymore, because the majority of players have left long ago (to never return), and only people with low standards are left here).

Opinions are nice bro. If it’s not for you then it’s not for you, however I love it. Also expansions are all going to be released free and you never even needed to invest money anyway.

Mirta.5029:

Also expansions are all going to be released free and you never even needed to invest money anyway.

No they’re not. Full expansions (not the content patches we’ve been getting) will cost money. Probably around full retail price of a game.

lacrimstein.5603:

Mirta.5029:

Also expansions are all going to be released free and you never even needed to invest money anyway.

No they’re not. Full expansions (not the content patches we’ve been getting) will cost money. Probably around full retail price of a game.

Except that they SAID that it will be released for FREE and will not follow the standards of GW1. Do you even read their blogs or follow the news?

Mirta.5029:

lacrimstein.5603:

Mirta.5029:

Also expansions are all going to be released free and you never even needed to invest money anyway.

No they’re not. Full expansions (not the content patches we’ve been getting) will cost money. Probably around full retail price of a game.

Except that they SAID that it will be released for FREE and will not follow the standards of GW1. Do you even read their blogs or follow the news?

Link me one blog where they said expansions will be free. Again, EXPANSIONS, not CONTENT UPDATES

Mirta.5029:

NaughtyProwler.8653:

If the stat boots on ascended are so minor that they don’t mean anything and won’t affect skill or anything else, why not simply remove them? Thanks. Look forward to your answer.

Why to remove extra content? It’s something new to reach for. I have full exotics and I’m a level 80. I would like to reach for legendary even though it’s nothing more but a skin. I do not do better than people with rares and greens, but I feel like I’ve achieved something by putting work into making and getting it.

Gear is not content for me. It’s a mechanism to allow me to be competitive in content. That is my take on it. /shrug

Gryz.8376:

Oh, and my common concerns with GW2 have been mentioned a lot on these forums: basically the pve gameplay designers are clueless how to make a game fun.

I wouldn’t put it that bluntly… Some parts are promising, but in essence, yes, I agree.

NaughtyProwler.8653:

If the stat boots on ascended are so minor that they don’t mean anything and won’t affect skill or anything else, why not simply remove them? Thanks. Look forward to your answer.

They are minor, but its just something extra to work toward if your bored. If you already maxed out everything you want why not work for a little extra push even if it means little?

Its there if you want it, out of the way if you don’t.

Alastar.2863:

NaughtyProwler.8653:

If the stat boots on ascended are so minor that they don’t mean anything and won’t affect skill or anything else, why not simply remove them? Thanks. Look forward to your answer.

They are minor, but its just something extra to work toward if your bored. If you already maxed out everything you want why not work for a little extra push even if it means little?

Its there if you want it, out of the way if you don’t.

I don’t want to be behind in stats. If a small stat boost is so meaningless, how about removing it or making it vastly easier to obtain because there are those who think it is meaningful? I put reasonable amount of time for my other gear, why must this one be a massive grind for me? Work and fun are not synonymous with one another, to me anyways. Why is my opinion demonized? I’m not here to “work”. I’m here to “play”.