Guild Wars 2

I’m not sure that this topic hasn’t already been hashed and rehashed and warmed over too many times, but I thought I’d present my take on RNG boxes, and dragon coffers in particular, so A-Net could hear the take of a guy that buys too many gems and is a regular contributor to their paychecks.

I’ll put the TL;DR up here towards the top the top:

I’m not spending another dime on RNG box type items.

For those interested in the reasons, here they are:

I spent $200 on gems (yes, I’m an idiot, but generally only once, which you can read above) to try to get a token so I could get the dragon shield skin.

Two. Hundred. Dollars.

Guess how many tokens I received? Zero. Squat. Bupkus. I bought 150, maybe 175 of the rich dragon coffers. Not to mention the oodles of regular ones I opened.

Zero tokens.

A guildie, and guy I work with, had 3,200 gems, which were already on his account, however many rich dragon coffers that buys, got four, plus one from a regular.

Yes, I understand it’s RNG. This is not a rant about how RNG works. It’s not a rant at all, though it may seem like it. This is simply a statement for the benefit of the developers of this game, from a guy that is a shade south of fanboy and has spent a kitten-ton of real cash in the gem store. I’ve played MMOs since vanilla Everquest, and GW2 has been my favorite of the bunch. That being said, I will never spend another nickel on something that does not guarantee me that item for which I’m spending that real money to acquire.

Thanks for listening.

Hoyvin.3241:

I’m not sure that this topic hasn’t already been hashed and rehashed and warmed over too many times, but I thought I’d present my take on RNG boxes, and dragon coffers in particular, so A-Net could hear the take of a guy that buys too many gems and is a regular contributor to their paychecks.

It has been trust me this topic has been brought up buried. Dug back up frankenstein style. Killed Buried. Zytan then came over and used it’s body as a risen. Killed Buried. Using the new patch necro Buffs brought back to life as a minion. Minion expired. Then necro’d again.

Should have just farmed regular coffers the first week, sold, Gold → Gems, bought rich coffers..

anzenketh.3759:

It has been trust me this topic has been brought up buried. Dug back up frankenstein style. Killed Buried. Zytan then came over and used it’s body as a risen. Killed Buried. Using the new patch necro Buffs brought back to life as a minion. Minion expired. Then necro’d again.

Ok, lets talk about mounts and open world dueling then!

LilMcGinley.3890:

Should have just farmed regular coffers the first week, sold, Gold -> Gems, bought rich coffers..

I’m not grinding, farming or otherwise doing something repetative just so I can get something for free. If it happens, it happens, or I’ll just do without.

I think the current system is fine, but maybe add a 3rd tier to boxes.

Dragon Coffer, Rich Dragon Coffer, Legendary Dragon Coffer.

Legendary sits at maybe 40x the cost of the Rich because realistically some people would have to open at least 40 Rich coffers to get it while striking a fair balance

200$?
Two Hundred Dollars?
Seriously, I mean, really?

No wonder Arena Net continues to make more RNG boxes, apparently there are many people out there like you.

I spent 10G on coffers and got 1 token.

Hoyvin.3241:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Should have just farmed regular coffers the first week, sold, Gold -> Gems, bought rich coffers..

I’m not grinding, farming or otherwise doing something repetative just so I can get something for free. If it happens, it happens, or I’ll just do without.

yet you spent 200$ on Gems…??

You spent 200 bucks on gambling, and complain? The fault is entirely yours.

Don’t spend money you can’t afford to lose on gambling.

Seriously. $200. Never again. “Fool me once” and all that.

In fact, it’s probably going to be quite a while before I buy another gem for real cash.

AntiGw.9367:

You spent 200 bucks on gambling, and complain? The fault is entirely yours.

Don’t spend money you can’t afford to lose on gambling.

Again, I’m not complaining, I can afford it, and of course it’s my fault. I’m not suggesting otherwise, or trying to blame A-Net. I certainly wouldn’t blow $200 at a casino. I don’t know why I thought this should be any different.

Just trying to provide some feedback.

Hoyvin.3241:

Seriously. $200. Never again. “Fool me once” and all that.

In fact, it’s probably going to be quite a while before I buy another gem for real cash.

Again, I’m not complaining, I can afford it, and of course it’s my fault. I’m not suggesting otherwise, or trying to blame A-Net. This is why I don’t go to a casino. I don’t know why I thought this should be any different.

Just trying to provide some feedback.

And yet you say ""Fool me once" and all that.".

Nobody fooled you.

I want to personally thank players like you for continuing the fund this game through extremely intelligent purchases. It is for your continued support that we can have more content.

In the future, If I was you, I wouldn’t spend money on something that isn’t 100% guaranteered. Supposedly, there is a 1.8% chance of getting those tickets from the cash shop coffers, just think about it.

AntiGw.9367:

Hoyvin.3241:

Seriously. $200. Never again. “Fool me once” and all that.

In fact, it’s probably going to be quite a while before I buy another gem for real cash.

Again, I’m not complaining, I can afford it, and of course it’s my fault. I’m not suggesting otherwise, or trying to blame A-Net. This is why I don’t go to a casino. I don’t know why I thought this should be any different.

Just trying to provide some feedback.

And yet you say ""Fool me once" and all that.".

Nobody fooled you.

Dude, it’s just a saying. Of course no one fooled me. What part of “I’m not blaming anyone but myself” do you not understand?

RNG box = lottery. It’s like buying lottery tickets, only with lottery tickets, the buyers are “hoping” to win, but they don’t complain if they lose (and spent more $1k USD during the lifetime of their gaming).

I don’t like the RNG box myself, but I understand why Anet is doing it. It’s the “luck of the draw”. If RNG box = guaranteed drop, some players may perceive this game as P2W (even though it’s not, because it’s just a skin). And even if no one perceive it as such, there will still be players who will complain, i.e. “why do some gets to spend money and get insta-skin while I have to grind to gold, convert to gems”?

Either way, there will always be complainers. I got mine after 865 coffers. Some of my guildmates got wings in just a few swing of their sword. Some got the ticket out of 2000+ coffers, others got their tickets (yes, with an s) in just 10 boxes.

I never got SSC weapon skin, nor the F&F weaponskin, so I am pretty happy I finally got a Jade Skin. However, I never complained when I didnt get any ticket for the SSC and F&F, coz those are just that: skins. It will not impact the way I play the game, nor my ability to enjoy the content.

Have fun…

silvermember.8941:

In the future, If I was you, I wouldn’t spend money on something that isn’t 100% guaranteered. Supposedly, there is a 1.8% chance of getting those tickets from the cash shop coffers, just think about it.

Isn’t that what I just said? Twice? I’m not supporting this money making vehicle again. Hopefully my posting this will convince people who don’t already think this is a bad idea.

I believe the saying is “fool me once and you have to wait until the next salary to get more money”?

Hoyvin.3241:

silvermember.8941:

In the future, If I was you, I wouldn’t spend money on something that isn’t 100% guaranteered. Supposedly, there is a 1.8% chance of getting those tickets from the cash shop coffers, just think about it.

Isn’t that what I just said? Twice? I’m not supporting this money making vehicle again. Hopefully my posting this will convince people who don’t already think this is a bad idea.

I know you did, I just wanted to emphasis it more, it gives me the giggles.
But alas your point is moot, because even for the best forums only 5% of the players even visit the forums.

I got 2 by simply playing the game and I think that is the moral of the story.

I think there is a problem with this community.

I’m going to keep this sort and sweet. The community can not stop people from spending cash on RNG items because the people who purchase these items do not come onto the forums until they have made the mistake.

Yes, the RNG topic has been done to death but the only thing worse than people buying these boxes are people placing the entire blame on the buyer. Yes, they shouldn’t have, and in this case he’s admitted that but putting 100% of the blame on him, you are all really not helping the fight against RNG boxes.

Keep the blame on whoever is deciding to use this exploitative mechanism. Yes, they are unlikely to stop if people keep giving them money but they are also unlikely to stop if everyone who falls for it gets all the blame.

Just to clarify, I have never and will never spend money on things like this.

ANET – make gem prices reflect chances of receiving the item – add a definite way to receive the item at a very high gem price – with RNG add a mechanism that ensures people will definitely get the item eventually (150 rich coffers is disgusting). – These boxes may be earners but they exploitative poison that does not fit in with the whole ethos of the game.

Lazy.2389:

add a definite way to receive the item at a very high gem price

That won’t make any difference – people are already complaining about the fixed price on the new skins.

In many jurisdictions lotteries have to be licensed by the authorities. If this is indeed a lottery in the ordinary meaning of the term:

Dictionary definition (dictionary.com) of lottery is

lottery
? Use Lottery in a sentence
lot·ter·y
[lot-uh-ree] Show IPA
noun, plural lot·ter·ies.
1.
a gambling game or method of raising money, as for some public charitable purpose, in which a large number of tickets are sold and a drawing is held for certain prizes.
2.
any scheme for the distribution of prizes by chance.
3.
any happening or process that is or appears to be determined by chance:

Makes you wonder doesn’t it?

AntiGw.9367:

Lazy.2389:

add a definite way to receive the item at a very high gem price

That won’t make any difference – people are already complaining about the fixed price on the new skins.

People would always complain, but from what im personally seeing, the kittenstorm over high gem prices is much less than that of ridiculously low chance through insane RNG.

Hoyvin.3241:

I spent $200 on gems (yes, I’m an idiot, but generally only once, which you can read above) to try to get a token so I could get the dragon shield skin.

Two. Hundred. Dollars.

The addictive factor of those boxes, and the slot machine feel of opening them, is reason enough for ArenaNet to keep selling them for now.

I wonder, though, if eventually most players won’t feel burned like that. The RNG system is one tailored to build frustration – you buy something hoping you will get what you want, but more often than not you won’t get it.

Linking this kind of mentality to one’s products is risky. If most of the time buying something from ArenaNet leads to frustration, are people going to buy an expansion? Or are they going to feel like that would also lead to frustration?

AntiGw.9367:

You spent 200 bucks on gambling, and complain? The fault is entirely yours.

Don’t spend money you can’t afford to lose on gambling.

I once knew several people who took this same stance on r(a)pe, you don’t protect yourself, it’s your fault.

It is never the victims fault, not in thievery or any exploitation of any kind. And you should be ashamed of yourself.

Why don’t they just, y’know. Sell the tokens. Or make the tokens resellable.

Anything that comes out of a gamblebox should be resellable. If I got a dragon token out of one of the boxes I opened (not many, admittedly), I’d be pretty kitten ed, because I do not care one iota about the dorky-looking dragon weapons.

Sarrs.4831:

Why don’t they just, y’know. Sell the tokens. Or make the tokens resellable.

Anything that comes out of a gamblebox should be resellable. If I got a dragon token out of one of the boxes I opened (not many, admittedly), I’d be pretty kitten ed, because I do not care one iota about the dorky-looking dragon weapons.

Why would you buy a box in the first place if you don’t want what might be in it and getting what might be in it would make you angry?

JustTrogdor.7892:

Sarrs.4831:

Why don’t they just, y’know. Sell the tokens. Or make the tokens resellable.

Anything that comes out of a gamblebox should be resellable. If I got a dragon token out of one of the boxes I opened (not many, admittedly), I’d be pretty kitten ed, because I do not care one iota about the dorky-looking dragon weapons.

Why would you buy a box in the first place if you don’t want what might be in it and getting what might be in it would make you angry?

Me not buying things is also totally acceptable to me but I doubt it’s Anet’s end goal.

Besides, maybe I want the dragon wings.

Apparently, the Australian Communication and Media Authority may already be looking into this in terms of the Interactive Gaming Act 2001 in Australia…especially as it relates to under 18 players and the game’s approval rating.

I mean it does not matter where it stems from, underage gambling should not be encouraged in any form…especially where there is no public scrutiny or accountability of the “results or outcome” of the gambling process.

Sarrs.4831:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Sarrs.4831:

Why don’t they just, y’know. Sell the tokens. Or make the tokens resellable.

Anything that comes out of a gamblebox should be resellable. If I got a dragon token out of one of the boxes I opened (not many, admittedly), I’d be pretty kitten ed, because I do not care one iota about the dorky-looking dragon weapons.

Why would you buy a box in the first place if you don’t want what might be in it and getting what might be in it would make you angry?

Me not buying things is also totally acceptable to me but I doubt it’s Anet’s end goal.

Besides, maybe I want the dragon wings.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

so i can sell them

I guess if you think throwing a few hundred gems away to hopefully get something that is available already on the TP and drops more frequently in open world than tickets is your thing then okay. I don’t see why you would be angry if you still got a dragon ticket. It’s better than candy and cakes right?

I’m sorry but I have a hard time thinking that buying RNG crates for wings is a good idea especially considering their value on the TP isn’t mind blowing. Either way when you buy RNG crates your really have no reason to be angry about what comes out because you know the risk going into it.

JustTrogdor.7892:

I guess if you think throwing a few hundred gems away to hopefully get something that is available already on the TP and drops more frequently in open world than tickets is your thing then okay. I don’t see why you would be angry if you still got a dragon ticket. It’s better than candy and cakes right?

I’m sorry but I have a hard time thinking that buying RNG crates for wings is a good idea especially considering their value on the TP isn’t mind blowing. Either way when you buy RNG crates your really have no reason to be angry about what comes out because you know the risk going into it.

It’s not really better than candy and cakes because at least I can sell that. You’re assigning a positive value to tickets where I have assigned no value. I have zero interest in a ticket. Zero. Nothing. If they cost 1 gem, I would not buy them. I’d be kittened because, while I know these things are valuable (to people who are not me) and said people would be more than happy to pay quite a bit of gold for one, I wouldn’t be able to. I wouldn’t even be able to give it to a friend.

I already know the maths are against buying chests to try to get dragon wings. I wouldn’t try to do it, either, but that’s not the point. I like that I have the option to sell something that is of zero value to me, to someone else who does attach value to it.

Sarrs.4831:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I guess if you think throwing a few hundred gems away to hopefully get something that is available already on the TP and drops more frequently in open world than tickets is your thing then okay. I don’t see why you would be angry if you still got a dragon ticket. It’s better than candy and cakes right?

I’m sorry but I have a hard time thinking that buying RNG crates for wings is a good idea especially considering their value on the TP isn’t mind blowing. Either way when you buy RNG crates your really have no reason to be angry about what comes out because you know the risk going into it.

It’s not really better than candy and cakes because at least I can sell that. You’re assigning a positive value to tickets where I have assigned no value. I have zero interest in a ticket. Zero. Nothing. If they cost 1 gem, I would not buy them. I’d be kittened because, while I know these things are valuable (to people who are not me) and said people would be more than happy to pay quite a bit of gold for one, I wouldn’t be able to. I wouldn’t even be able to give it to a friend.

I already know the maths are against buying chests to try to get dragon wings. I wouldn’t try to do it, either, but that’s not the point. I like that I have the option to sell something that is of zero value to me, to someone else who does attach value to it.

Wait you said you did buy a few. From your earlier post:

If I got a dragon token out of one of the boxes I opened (not many, admittedly), I’d be pretty kitten ed, because I do not care one iota about the dorky-looking dragon weapons.

Still its RNG. If you get something you don’t want you can’t complain, tradable or not because you know that item may be in there. Fireworks are soul bound so are you upset when get those from an RNG crate?

Oldbugga.7029:

Apparently, the Australian Communication and Media Authority may already be looking into this in terms of the Interactive Gaming Act 2001 in Australia…especially as it relates to under 18 players and the game’s approval rating.

I mean it does not matter where it stems from, underage gambling should not be encouraged in any form…especially where there is no public scrutiny or accountability of the “results or outcome” of the gambling process.

really?
good ol’ aussies.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Still its RNG. If you get something you don’t want you can’t complain, tradable or not because you know that item may be in there. Fireworks are soul bound so are you upset when get those from an RNG crate?

If Anet doesn’t want my feedback on what they’re offering, then they’re free to ignore it. If they want to get my money, or more likely money from or repair their reputation with the countless people annoyed by the RNG factor attached to these tokens, they can make a very simple change to fix it.

Oldbugga.7029:

Apparently, the Australian Communication and Media Authority may already be looking into this in terms of the Interactive Gaming Act 2001 in Australia…especially as it relates to under 18 players and the game’s approval rating.

Interesting, got a link where its mentioned?

Conncept.7638:

AntiGw.9367:

You spent 200 bucks on gambling, and complain? The fault is entirely yours.

Don’t spend money you can’t afford to lose on gambling.

I once knew several people who took this same stance on r(a)pe, you don’t protect yourself, it’s your fault.

It is never the victims fault, not in thievery or any exploitation of any kind. And you should be ashamed of yourself.

Did you just compare Dragon Coffers to kitten ?

Oldbugga.7029:

Apparently, the Australian Communication and Media Authority may already be looking into this in terms of the Interactive Gaming Act 2001 in Australia…especially as it relates to under 18 players and the game’s approval rating.

I mean it does not matter where it stems from, underage gambling should not be encouraged in any form…especially where there is no public scrutiny or accountability of the “results or outcome” of the gambling process.

You know I was really curious about legal curbs to this kinda thing. Cause this is gambling and kids are gambling in this game. And gambling is exploitation of instincts and reward mechanisms. It’s one of (before people start playing kitten) the reasons casinos are restricted almost everywhere. It makes people sick. If I had a kid, I wouldn’t want to see him getting sick over gambling crap on a videogame.

Needless to say I steer clear of all this nonsense.

-

Just a not, here’s what makes gambling mechanisms so perfect to exploit people. It has the perfect excuse built in: “it’s their fault, they’re stupid.” But what people don’t know or try to ignore is that everyone is more or less prone to gamble even under unfavorable odds. It’s a irrational drive that is being exploited. End of story.

See if you’d listened to me for the past two months, you’d have boycotted the boxes, and you wouldn’t be here complaining.

No one ever listens to me. lol

Hoyvin.3241:

Seriously. $200. Never again. “Fool me once” and all that.

In fact, it’s probably going to be quite a while before I buy another gem for real cash.

AntiGw.9367:

You spent 200 bucks on gambling, and complain? The fault is entirely yours.

Don’t spend money you can’t afford to lose on gambling.

Again, I’m not complaining, I can afford it, and of course it’s my fault. I’m not suggesting otherwise, or trying to blame A-Net. I certainly wouldn’t blow $200 at a casino. I don’t know why I thought this should be any different.

Just trying to provide some feedback.

You were probably better off spending the $200 in a casino. At least you’d be gambling it on something that would give you real value in real life.

MFP.5324:

Hoyvin.3241:

Seriously. $200. Never again. “Fool me once” and all that.

In fact, it’s probably going to be quite a while before I buy another gem for real cash.

AntiGw.9367:

You spent 200 bucks on gambling, and complain? The fault is entirely yours.

Don’t spend money you can’t afford to lose on gambling.

Again, I’m not complaining, I can afford it, and of course it’s my fault. I’m not suggesting otherwise, or trying to blame A-Net. I certainly wouldn’t blow $200 at a casino. I don’t know why I thought this should be any different.

Just trying to provide some feedback.

You were probably better off spending the $200 in a casino. At least you’d be gambling it on something that would give you real value in real life.

No it wouldn’t.

Some people never learn…

Harbard.5738:

Oldbugga.7029:

Apparently, the Australian Communication and Media Authority may already be looking into this in terms of the Interactive Gaming Act 2001 in Australia…especially as it relates to under 18 players and the game’s approval rating.

I mean it does not matter where it stems from, underage gambling should not be encouraged in any form…especially where there is no public scrutiny or accountability of the “results or outcome” of the gambling process.

You know I was really curious about legal curbs to this kinda thing. Cause this is gambling and kids are gambling in this game. And gambling is exploitation of instincts and reward mechanisms. It’s one of (before people start playing kitten) the reasons casinos are restricted almost everywhere. It makes people sick. If I had a kid, I wouldn’t want to see him getting sick over gambling crap on a videogame.

Needless to say I steer clear of all this nonsense.

-

Just a not, here’s what makes gambling mechanisms so perfect to exploit people. It has the perfect excuse built in: “it’s their fault, they’re stupid.” But what people don’t know or try to ignore is that everyone is more or less prone to gamble even under unfavorable odds. It’s a irrational drive that is being exploited. End of story.

This is true. There is a reason that gambling habits get treated alongside other addictive/dependent disorders such as alcoholism. Obviously, I’m not equating the OP to an alcoholic or a gambling addict. Simply saying that the argument “it’s no-one’s fault but your own” only goes so far. Sure, nobody made him buy the boxes, but the RNG system is designed to exploit the addiction centre of the brain … nobody made the alcoholic have their first drink either, or the next, or the next. It’s not as simple as just saying “your fault. Stop”.

I’m not saying this sentiment isn’t true at it’s very heart – it is. But if it were as simple as that, nobody would have fallen for it at all, and we have plenty of evidence to the contrary.

As long as people keep using real money to get stuff that you have a 1 to 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 chance of getting by gambeling on opening a box.. Well.. They’ll just keep doing it like it.. I’ve given up on trying to get weapon-tickets.. They are to rare for me to even bother. I’m glad I haven’t spent real money on this..

Conncept.7638:

AntiGw.9367:

You spent 200 bucks on gambling, and complain? The fault is entirely yours.

Don’t spend money you can’t afford to lose on gambling.

I once knew several people who took this same stance on r(a)pe, you don’t protect yourself, it’s your fault.

It is never the victims fault, not in thievery or any exploitation of any kind. And you should be ashamed of yourself.

The difference is there’s no victim here. People weren’t forced into anything.

They gambled and they lost.

I wouldnt give up OP, the way these things work youre due for a big payoff pretty soon, another $50 should get you what you want or more. I did the same thing, spent 200, and nothing, then the next $100 I won bigtime!! Dont give up, you will win, you gotta play to win. Good luck.