Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer:
My thoughts/views may or may not differ from those of the reader. My personal opinions in no way shape or form are meant to insult or offend those who support Ascended gear or the direction the game is taking.

Brace yourselves, this is a long post.

Part 1: Is Ascended Gear Required?

Part 2: The Dreaded Grind

Edit: Took out the the crafted only parts. Players have the rare chance of also obtaining Ascended weapons anywhere Ascended material drops.

Part 3: The Problem

Part 3: The Problem Cont.

Leveling a profession to 400-500 is about ~200 gold. When ascended armor comes that will be ~800 gold!

WTF!

alcopaul.2156:

Leveling a profession to 400-500 is about ~200 gold. When ascended armor comes that will be ~800 gold!

WTF!

Yeah, the estimated cost buy the mats to level it up is 200g, for one weapon crafting profession and there is three:

• Weaponsmith
• Huntsman
• Artificer

So around 600g in total if you buy it out of pocket. But it’s just an estimate, you have to take in to consideration the inflation of the GW2 economy as well.

As far as Ascended armor goes, no one knows what they are going to do. But I fear the worst for what they have planned.

Irrodesia.3907:

Part 3: The Problem

Pulling three quotes from Is it Fun? Colin Johanson on how ArenaNet Measures Success

I’d really like to see a comment from Colin on if he thinks they are still adhering to this and if so how can he possibly think the grind and cost for these weapons is ‘fun’.

morrolan.9608:

Irrodesia.3907:

Part 3: The Problem

Pulling three quotes from Is it Fun? Colin Johanson on how ArenaNet Measures Success

I’d really like to see a comment from Colin on if he thinks they are still adhering to this and if so how can he possibly think the grind and cost for these weapons is ‘fun’.

He won’t comment. Any attempt to address the accusations that they’ve changed their philosophy is irrelevant to what they’re trying to attain — whatever it is. The best we can expect is dribbles of PR. The recent Pax interview was a masterful piece of PR. He almost had me with the statement that went something like, “We intended exotic to be a lot harder to get.” Then I reread the Eurogamer interview from 2011. The two just don’t mesh.

No, there’s something different at ANet. It might be a shift in management philosophy, a decision to cater more to mainstream MMO gear pursuers in order to maximize profit, a realization that despite GW2’s content being fun, too many players will not repeat content “just for fun,” or even the (/cynicism on) realization that they might as well hook as many demographics as possible because it’s not like the fans who wanted GW 1.5 have any other games they can go to to pursue horizontal progression (cynicism off).

Irrodesia.3907:

Part 3: The Problem Cont.

This part did a very nice job of talking through the problem. It was great to know that you were done getting stats for your character and could focus entirely on doing things that were fun, grinding only if you wanted, and only for skins. But then it turned out that’s not how the game was going to work.

Sadly, I also agree with IndigoSundown that Anet is never going to come out and discuss why they did a complete 180 on design. For one thing, that would require them to acknowledge that they did a complete 180 on design.

morrolan.9608:

Irrodesia.3907:

Part 3: The Problem

Pulling three quotes from Is it Fun? Colin Johanson on how ArenaNet Measures Success

I’d really like to see a comment from Colin on if he thinks they are still adhering to this and if so how can he possibly think the grind and cost for these weapons is ‘fun’.

You will never see a comment from Colin addressing vertical progression and the non-optional gear grind it creates. Look, he’s a gaming professional; he can’t blithely deny that VP creates a non-optional gear grind. He’s got a professional reputation to maintain and he’s not going to argue an irrational position that many are happy to argue on the forums. Have you noticed that Colin pops into threads of every sort…except the ones on VP. I believe it’s because he wants to keep his reputation intact. There is absolutely no upside in his addressing this issue and I don’t believe he ever will unless they decide to remove it someday.

I love Guild Wars 2. I can’t talk it up enough to all my friends and many of them played it casually. The problem is we have jobs and Guild Wars 2 pre-ascended allowed us to gear up and try new builds and new ways of playing the game in about 2 week’s casual time like you stated. Guild Wars 2 was one of the few games out there that allowed us to feel like we were not falling behind the curve. We could be in BiS gear and enjoy any aspect of this great game without it feeling like a chore. If the optimal meta builds changed it didn’t take a large investment of time or money to adjust to the new status quo.

Then fractals came and with it Ascended gear.

Just like that we had the start of a vertical progression gear treadmill. I’ve had my fill of gear treadmills. Every Korean MMO under the sun does gear grinding and BiS bragging rights. WoW, one of the penultimate MMOs even does this with 20 man and 10 man raiding. We have already experienced those games. We don’t want to experience them again with a new skin. With ascended gear this game took a major step in the direction of being like every other game already on the market. And my friends and I took a step away. We quit.

Finally they added a way for someone like me who had zero interest in Fractals of the Mists to get BiS again by playing the game normally. I returned, but couldn’t help but notice the time-investment required to get Ascended gear outside fractals. This worried me because pre-ascended we could, with relative ease, change builds and play styles. Now If I invested my time in accessories perfect for Build A and decide that I would prefer to play Build B which needs a whole new accessory set to be optimal. All of a sudden this time sink would hit me again. The ability to rapidly change builds and play styles was removed. Take a look at your Skills and Traits menu and the fee for re-rolling your traits. Account bound Ascended items are counter-intuitive to the original design of the game.

With Exotics being the BiS slot option and not being account bound I had the option of hoping that I got the stat point arrangement as a natural drop or selling everything that didn’t match my ideal build so I could purchase the items that I needed. The design of Ascended items removed this flexibility.

Guild Wars 2 needs to rediscover its original motivation and design and innovate off of those ideals. It does not need to copy design and elements from a niche market that has fatigued its player base. The promises made at the start of Guild Wars 2 made us love it and hold out hope for it. But the longer time goes on the more it seems like those promises were made by politicians. We’re promised something different, but we get more of the same.

Out of 20 of my real life friends that played this game regularly, only I remain.

I have 20 weapons to replace on my characters before they regain BiS status. I was enjoying the game with BiS gear before ascended and was working towards getting some legendary weapons and the armor that looked the coolest. Now I still need to do that but with the nagging notion that my characters are not perfected. With the extreme time investment needed to get ascended as a non-fractal player, I fear reading the class balance section of the patch notes.

Ascended items aren’t required for general accessibility of PvE or WvW. Eventually small changes can add up into something bigger. Once this ascended cycle is complete and there are enough installed sets will we be seeing patch notes that read something like:

• Players now have access to the continent of Cantha. Players are strongly recommended to have ascended gear with agony infusions to counter the Agony from creatures in the region.

• Added new skills that give the players access to Agony.
• Agony effects obtained from other players will last 30 seconds.

• Agony Resistance Infusions can now be purchased with 30 laurels in every major city.
• Special WvW Agony Resistance Infusions can be purchased with Badges of Honor in your world’s Citadel.

I fear this day because the frame work is being laid for this to be a possibility. Vertical progression is an answer to high level retention. It’s the easy answer, not the right answer.

Ascended is here to stay and I accept that. But its convoluted and time consuming nature of acquisition is putting a negative pressure on players like me. I don’t like when my games transition into chores and work. I don’t have the time or patience for it anymore. Bottom line, chores are not fun. Player uncertainty in the stability and direction of your product is a major detriment in the games as a service era.

Thank you Arena Net for providing me with a game that for the majority of the past year was an incredible amount of fun to play. I hope that in this upcoming year I’m still logging into Guild Wars 2 because it is fun to play, not because I have to.

This is my story.

Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.

I work in MMO operations. Trust me if you don’t speak out about something. We will think it is okay. But if you speak out and we can correlate that with reduced Unique Users and daily spending activity we will take note.

It’s just like politics. If an issue impacts you negatively you speak out louder. If an issue troubles you, you groan about it but move on. And if you’re satisfied you say nothing. Eventually if you lose enough loud minorities, you’ll find yourself in trouble.

It’s a lot harder to get back a player than it is the acquire them initially.

Ascended gear isn’t bad, it isn’t evil. It’s potentially dangerous and I don’t agree with the method of its implementation. At the same time I fully understand why it was added to the game.

I also can’t help but feel that Guild Wars 2 has lost sight of itself over the course of the year.

Irrodesia.3907:

Disclaimer:
My thoughts/views may or may not differ from those of the reader. My personal opinions in no way shape or form are meant to insult or offend those who support Ascended gear or the direction the game is taking.

you’re not alone. all of the smart people have quit the games ages ago. now we just check the forums. anet is sticking to their guns on ascended gear, killing alts, killing builds, etc. it’s not going to end anytime soon. in the near future, many people will have legendary simply for stats. you’re going to see a lot of r-tards running around with the same gear. the best thing for you to do is find another game.

One Note Chord.5031:

Irrodesia.3907:

Part 3: The Problem Cont.

This part did a very nice job of talking through the problem. It was great to know that you were done getting stats for your character and could focus entirely on doing things that were fun, grinding only if you wanted, and only for skins. But then it turned out that’s not how the game was going to work.

Sadly, I also agree with IndigoSundown that Anet is never going to come out and discuss why they did a complete 180 on design. For one thing, that would require them to acknowledge that they did a complete 180 on design.

im guessing the publisher/other stake holders in the business wanted to see this and forced anet to do so.

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

im guessing the publisher/other stake holders in the business wanted to see this and forced anet to do so.

Its irrelevant “who” to you as a customer because, in the end, we are here to play (or not) the game.

I would like to point out little phrase “vote with your wallet” but since you cant do that, vote with not playing, not logging in.

if people really wanted guild wars “back,” they would simply not log into the game anymore. my theory is that anet lost a majority of their player base 6 months in, and all the new players have started flowing in (cod/wow fanboys). but anet claims that the majority of players are enjoying the game. they will not fix it for what i like to call us, the “1%’ers.” deal with it or leave. this is not guild wars anymore—it’s a entirely new team with new ideas and horrible decision making. if i had worked at anet i would’ve been fired 6 months ago, or more.

Part 1: Is Ascended Gear Required?

First of all, there are people doing naked runs of dungeons (absolutely no armor, only weapons), there are people soloing AC/CM/TA at their intended levels, without access to Ascended or even Exotic items. I’ve seen a level 24 Necromancer doing 30+ fotm, it was fun and “unique”. Overall, Ascended gear, and really ANY type of gear isn’t required at all, provided you have enough skill to compensate for the lack of it. I doubt Ascended gear can make much of a difference in large scale WvW battles or sieges either, there are siege weapons to be used, and I’d take a properly built (skill-wise) team mate using greens (for example a support Guardian with a Staff) over a bs Thief in a large scale battle.

Part 2: The Dreaded Grind

As I’ve said in multiple posts, if you are doing a variety things (like, everything in the game) you can get an Ascended Weapon without ever doing the same thing twice.

About the Ascended Materials:
Starting as a level 1 and going up to level 80, doing all dungeons on the way you will have all the Empyreal Fragments you will ever need, 20 per path, 25 paths total = 500 Empyreal Fragments. Fill in the gaps with some Jumping Puzzles for the paths you might not do.

If you do events while leveling, and include the Dungeon Champions, you will have enough Bloodstone Dust once you are level 80 too. That’s by far the easiest material to get without even trying.

Dragonite Ore is the only real issue, doing all the World Bosses ONCE (no grinding) will net you 308 Ore, if you get average Ore per boss.

Considering all the above it is a grind if you want it to be (Dragonite excluded), the rest can be obtained by doing content only ONCE, there has been talk on these forums to make “Dungeon Master” a requirement for legendaries, or even give players some good rewards, now it does, if you want to avoid the grind.

Crafting to 500 is a pain, as I mentioned in other threads I will stay on 450 until they “fix” their recipies.

maddoctor.2738:

Part 1: Is Ascended Gear Required?

First of all, there are people doing naked runs of dungeons (absolutely no armor, only weapons), there are people soloing AC/CM/TA at their intended levels, without access to Ascended or even Exotic items. I’ve seen a level 24 Necromancer doing 30+ fotm, it was fun and “unique”. Overall, Ascended gear, and really ANY type of gear isn’t required at all, provided you have enough skill to compensate for the lack of it. I doubt Ascended gear can make much of a difference in large scale WvW battles or sieges either, there are siege weapons to be used, and I’d take a properly built (skill-wise) team mate using greens (for example a support Guardian with a Staff) over a bs Thief in a large scale battle.

As I’ve said in multiple posts, if you are doing a variety things (like, everything in the game) you can get an Ascended Weapon without ever doing the same thing twice.

ascended gear kittens up wvw. it’s not debatable. if it was pve only, i wouldn’t probably care as much—i would simply not get the gear.

such stupidity. no, you’ll have to do the same thing twice, three times, or 10 times, or 500 times. think about all the combinations of stats. dumb. (and amount of weapons)

maddoctor.2738:

Part 1: Is Ascended Gear Required?

First of all, there are people doing naked runs of dungeons (absolutely no armor, only weapons), there are people soloing AC/CM/TA at their intended levels, without access to Ascended or even Exotic items. I’ve seen a level 24 Necromancer doing 30+ fotm, it was fun and “unique”. Overall, Ascended gear, and really ANY type of gear isn’t required at all, provided you have enough skill to compensate for the lack of it. I doubt Ascended gear can make much of a difference in large scale WvW battles or sieges either, there are siege weapons to be used, and I’d take a properly built (skill-wise) team mate using greens (for example a support Guardian with a Staff) over a bs Thief in a large scale battle.

When argument comes dow to “you can pwn bads with no gear at all”….your argment is over.

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

Ranks were stupid enough already for www, now ascended…PvEers in champ trains…how exciting….

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

Ranks were stupid enough already for www, now ascended…PvEers in champ trains…how exciting….

Why does gear matter if someone can do content in blue gear while someone in Ascended is struggling? 13% more damage doesn’t matter at all.

maddoctor.2738:

MikaHR.1978:

GEAR MATTERS. STATS MATTER. Having 13% more damage atm MATTERS. And it will ONLY GROW EVERY FEW MONTHS FROM NOW ON.

Ranks were stupid enough already for www, now ascended…PvEers in champ trains…how exciting….

Why does gear matter if someone can do content in blue gear while someone in Ascended is struggling? 13% more damage doesn’t matter at all.

did you eat paint chips as a kid?

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

maddoctor.2738:

Part 1: Is Ascended Gear Required?

First of all, there are people doing naked runs of dungeons (absolutely no armor, only weapons), there are people soloing AC/CM/TA at their intended levels, without access to Ascended or even Exotic items. I’ve seen a level 24 Necromancer doing 30+ fotm, it was fun and “unique”. Overall, Ascended gear, and really ANY type of gear isn’t required at all, provided you have enough skill to compensate for the lack of it. I doubt Ascended gear can make much of a difference in large scale WvW battles or sieges either, there are siege weapons to be used, and I’d take a properly built (skill-wise) team mate using greens (for example a support Guardian with a Staff) over a bs Thief in a large scale battle.

As I’ve said in multiple posts, if you are doing a variety things (like, everything in the game) you can get an Ascended Weapon without ever doing the same thing twice.

ascended gear kittens up wvw. it’s not debatable. if it was pve only, i wouldn’t probably care as much—i would simply not get the gear.

such stupidity. no, you’ll have to do the same thing twice, three times, or 10 times, or 500 times. think about all the combinations of stats. dumb. (and amount of weapons)

No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.

maddoctor.2738:

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

maddoctor.2738:

Part 1: Is Ascended Gear Required?

First of all, there are people doing naked runs of dungeons (absolutely no armor, only weapons), there are people soloing AC/CM/TA at their intended levels, without access to Ascended or even Exotic items. I’ve seen a level 24 Necromancer doing 30+ fotm, it was fun and “unique”. Overall, Ascended gear, and really ANY type of gear isn’t required at all, provided you have enough skill to compensate for the lack of it. I doubt Ascended gear can make much of a difference in large scale WvW battles or sieges either, there are siege weapons to be used, and I’d take a properly built (skill-wise) team mate using greens (for example a support Guardian with a Staff) over a bs Thief in a large scale battle.

As I’ve said in multiple posts, if you are doing a variety things (like, everything in the game) you can get an Ascended Weapon without ever doing the same thing twice.

ascended gear kittens up wvw. it’s not debatable. if it was pve only, i wouldn’t probably care as much—i would simply not get the gear.

such stupidity. no, you’ll have to do the same thing twice, three times, or 10 times, or 500 times. think about all the combinations of stats. dumb. (and amount of weapons)

No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.

WvW does not mean large scale combat. you people are something else…

maddoctor.2738:

No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.

I guess Ascended is completely useless then since it doesn’t matter in anyway. ANet should just delete it all and the game would be better.

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

maddoctor.2738:

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

maddoctor.2738:

Part 1: Is Ascended Gear Required?

First of all, there are people doing naked runs of dungeons (absolutely no armor, only weapons), there are people soloing AC/CM/TA at their intended levels, without access to Ascended or even Exotic items. I’ve seen a level 24 Necromancer doing 30+ fotm, it was fun and “unique”. Overall, Ascended gear, and really ANY type of gear isn’t required at all, provided you have enough skill to compensate for the lack of it. I doubt Ascended gear can make much of a difference in large scale WvW battles or sieges either, there are siege weapons to be used, and I’d take a properly built (skill-wise) team mate using greens (for example a support Guardian with a Staff) over a bs Thief in a large scale battle.

As I’ve said in multiple posts, if you are doing a variety things (like, everything in the game) you can get an Ascended Weapon without ever doing the same thing twice.

ascended gear kittens up wvw. it’s not debatable. if it was pve only, i wouldn’t probably care as much—i would simply not get the gear.

such stupidity. no, you’ll have to do the same thing twice, three times, or 10 times, or 500 times. think about all the combinations of stats. dumb. (and amount of weapons)

No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.

WvW does not mean large scale combat. you people are something else…

So WvW means dueling? Really?

stof.9341:

maddoctor.2738:

No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.

I guess Ascended is completely useless then since it doesn’t matter in anyway. ANet should just delete it all and the game would be better.

There is a huge difference between “not make much of a difference” and being completely useless.

maddoctor.2738:

stof.9341:

maddoctor.2738:

No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.

I guess Ascended is completely useless then since it doesn’t matter in anyway. ANet should just delete it all and the game would be better.

There is a huge difference between “not make much of a difference” and being completely useless.

Uh-huh.

13% gets multiplied when those small attacks from a zerg start impacting you.

You can down your target faster allowing you to be more useful to your zerg or get killed 13% faster and be a liability to your zerg. When Ascended Armor gets added to the mix now people have higher toughness and vitality thresholds for you to overcome in your yellows or oranges. If your zerg can’t overcome this threshold you will lose the war of attrition.

Ask any WvW commander if they would rather lead a zerg of 40 people in full exotics against an equally skilled and classed zerg of 40 people in fully optimized Ascended gear.

maddoctor.2738:

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

maddoctor.2738:

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

maddoctor.2738:

Part 1: Is Ascended Gear Required?

First of all, there are people doing naked runs of dungeons (absolutely no armor, only weapons), there are people soloing AC/CM/TA at their intended levels, without access to Ascended or even Exotic items. I’ve seen a level 24 Necromancer doing 30+ fotm, it was fun and “unique”. Overall, Ascended gear, and really ANY type of gear isn’t required at all, provided you have enough skill to compensate for the lack of it. I doubt Ascended gear can make much of a difference in large scale WvW battles or sieges either, there are siege weapons to be used, and I’d take a properly built (skill-wise) team mate using greens (for example a support Guardian with a Staff) over a bs Thief in a large scale battle.

As I’ve said in multiple posts, if you are doing a variety things (like, everything in the game) you can get an Ascended Weapon without ever doing the same thing twice.

ascended gear kittens up wvw. it’s not debatable. if it was pve only, i wouldn’t probably care as much—i would simply not get the gear.

such stupidity. no, you’ll have to do the same thing twice, three times, or 10 times, or 500 times. think about all the combinations of stats. dumb. (and amount of weapons)

No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.

WvW does not mean large scale combat. you people are something else…

So WvW means dueling? Really?

www is everything from duels to large scale battles, gear matter in all of it, and large scale battles are pretty screwed because of skill lag, so its pointless to talk about skill in those battles since 13% more damage will win out eventually.

Sungam.9204:

13% gets multiplied when those small attacks from a zerg start impacting you.

You can down your target faster allowing you to be more useful to your zerg or get killed 13% faster and be a liability to your zerg. When Ascended Armor gets added to the mix now people have higher toughness and vitality thresholds for you to overcome in your yellows or oranges. If your zerg can’t overcome this threshold you will lose the war of attrition.

Ask any WvW commander if they would rather lead a zerg of 40 people in full exotics against an equally skilled and classed zerg of 40 people in fully optimized Ascended gear.

It all doesnt matter because you can pwn bads with no gear at all apparently.

The problem is that ArenaNet needs to keep players active enough to spend money in their cash shop. That’s what puts bread on their tables. For PvP and WvW players there’s plenty of things to do, but for PvE players there’s nothing to do.

I think it’s safe now to say that their dungeons have utterly failed to provide anything interesting to chew on for serious PvE players. People that do them just want the gear and use exploits, 5x berserker teams and cheats to skip as many bosses and be done with the dungeon ASAP, and when Arenanet tried to fix one dungeon (AC) the players found the dungeon annoying and just stopped running it. And I don’t have the impression that fractals have been immensely popular either.

A lot of focused PvE players got to level 80 and then quit because there was nothing else to do. Events are too easy to pose a challenge, dungeons have huge design issues, world champions and other really hard mobs to solo had no rewards (back then), there was just nothing to do it you don’t want to PvP.

Adding ascended weapons (and later armors) introduces a new goal that is going to take a very long time to fulfill. This will keep players active and busy for a long time, and that gives the game a larger pool of players that could potentially spend money in the cash shop. Personally I think it’s a little silly and even hazardous for the game that ascended gear has to have better stats than exotics, and on top of that the devs look a little funny to go 180 on their word, but I sure am glad that there is something to do as a PvE player. I haven’t played the game from April to last August because I just had nothing to do. Now, at least, I have a reason to log in and play. I just wished my gear wasn’t deprecated…

maddoctor.2738:

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

maddoctor.2738:

Part 1: Is Ascended Gear Required?

First of all, there are people doing naked runs of dungeons (absolutely no armor, only weapons), there are people soloing AC/CM/TA at their intended levels, without access to Ascended or even Exotic items. I’ve seen a level 24 Necromancer doing 30+ fotm, it was fun and “unique”. Overall, Ascended gear, and really ANY type of gear isn’t required at all, provided you have enough skill to compensate for the lack of it. I doubt Ascended gear can make much of a difference in large scale WvW battles or sieges either, there are siege weapons to be used, and I’d take a properly built (skill-wise) team mate using greens (for example a support Guardian with a Staff) over a bs Thief in a large scale battle.

As I’ve said in multiple posts, if you are doing a variety things (like, everything in the game) you can get an Ascended Weapon without ever doing the same thing twice.

ascended gear kittens up wvw. it’s not debatable. if it was pve only, i wouldn’t probably care as much—i would simply not get the gear.

such stupidity. no, you’ll have to do the same thing twice, three times, or 10 times, or 500 times. think about all the combinations of stats. dumb. (and amount of weapons)

No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.

Ascended + the new bloodlust might just make a very big difference I think.

Bearhugger.4326:

The problem is that ArenaNet needs to keep players active enough to spend money in their cash shop. That’s what puts bread on their tables. For PvP and WvW players there’s plenty of things to do, but for PvE players there’s nothing to do.

I think it’s safe now to say that their dungeons have utterly failed to provide anything interesting to chew on for serious PvE players. People that do them just want the gear and use exploits, 5x berserker teams and cheats to skip as many bosses and be done with the dungeon ASAP, and when Arenanet tried to fix one dungeon (AC) the players found the dungeon annoying and just stopped running it. And I don’t have the impression that fractals have been immensely popular either.

A lot of focused PvE players got to level 80 and then quit because there was nothing else to do. Events are too easy to pose a challenge, dungeons have huge design issues, world champions and other really hard mobs to solo had no rewards (back then), there was just nothing to do it you don’t want to PvP.

Adding ascended weapons (and later armors) introduces a new goal that is going to take a very long time to fulfill. This will keep players active and busy for a long time, and that gives the game a larger pool of players that could potentially spend money in the cash shop. Personally I think it’s a little silly and even hazardous for the game that ascended gear has to have better stats than exotics, and on top of that the devs look a little funny to go 180 on their word, but I sure am glad that there is something to do as a PvE player. I haven’t played the game from April to last August because I just had nothing to do. Now, at least, I have a reason to log in and play. I just wished my gear wasn’t deprecated…

So your goal is to grind a lot of uniteresting and utterly failed things (your own words).

You are aware theres 0 new content or improvements to existing content introduced with ascended weapons.

maddoctor.2738:

stof.9341:

maddoctor.2738:

No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.

I guess Ascended is completely useless then since it doesn’t matter in anyway. ANet should just delete it all and the game would be better.

There is a huge difference between “not make much of a difference” and being completely useless.

So now we’re moving from “doesn’t matter at all” to "not much oaf a difference? So there is a difference, after all?

And in WvW it does matter also for reasons that have nothing to do with it’s stats.
Seeing a zerg train waiting patiently at the camp till the enemy group finishes flipping it, or hearing voices “don’t reinforce walls or build siege, we want them to be able to take it” in chat is something i see quite often now – and it has started only after people counted how much dragonite and empyreals they are going to need.

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

stof.9341:

maddoctor.2738:

No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.

I guess Ascended is completely useless then since it doesn’t matter in anyway. ANet should just delete it all and the game would be better.

There is a huge difference between “not make much of a difference” and being completely useless.

So now we’re moving from “doesn’t matter at all” to "not much oaf a difference? So there is a difference, after all?

I guess if 2 people are equally skilled, the one with the Ascended will have an advantage. Good luck finding 2 people that are exactly equally skilled though.

PS: I hate the forums atm

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

So now we’re moving from “doesn’t matter at all” to "not much oaf a difference? So there is a difference, after all?

I guess if 2 people are equally skilled, the one with the Ascended will have an advantage. Good luck finding 2 people that are exactly equally skilled though.

Doesn’t have to be “equally skilled”. Just within that 10% of each other – and that is something far, far more probable.

PS: I hate the forums atm

The 500’s? Yeah, they are extremely irritating.

Astralporing.1957:

And in WvW it does matter also for reasons that have nothing to do with it’s stats.
Seeing a zerg train waiting patiently at the camp till the enemy group finishes flipping it, or hearing voices “don’t reinforce walls or build siege, we want them to be able to take it” in chat is something i see quite often now – and it has started only after people counted how much dragonite and empyreals they are going to need.

Yes that’s a big issue. I guess people will always put their personal “loot” above anything else.

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

And in WvW it does matter also for reasons that have nothing to do with it’s stats.
Seeing a zerg train waiting patiently at the camp till the enemy group finishes flipping it, or hearing voices “don’t reinforce walls or build siege, we want them to be able to take it” in chat is something i see quite often now – and it has started only after people counted how much dragonite and empyreals they are going to need.

Yes that’s a big issue. I guess people will always put their personal “loot” above anything else.

Its behavior thats direct consequence of ascended weapons. When you introduce completely conflicting goals, those which seem more important take precedence.

Ascended should be banned from www and stats normalized to exotic. very easy.

MikaHR.1978:

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

And in WvW it does matter also for reasons that have nothing to do with it’s stats.
Seeing a zerg train waiting patiently at the camp till the enemy group finishes flipping it, or hearing voices “don’t reinforce walls or build siege, we want them to be able to take it” in chat is something i see quite often now – and it has started only after people counted how much dragonite and empyreals they are going to need.

Yes that’s a big issue. I guess people will always put their personal “loot” above anything else.

Its behavior thats direct consequence of ascended weapons. When you introduce completely conflicting goals, those which seem more important take precedence.

Ascended should be banned from www and stats normalized to exotic. very easy.

No, instead we got Bloodlust on the Borderlands to further complicate things.

For one, it’s good that they added the new rewards in WvW, otherwise people would complain that they can’t get what they want by playing WvW, however there is still the issue of defending, they could for example, reward Empyreal Fragments when you defend a camp/keep? I’m sure that wouldn’t work very well but maybe somehow they could make it work.

If it’s that much of an issue, they could normalise the stats of Ascended to be the same as Exotic in WvW, we already have downscaling mechanic in the game. But now I wonder if they would “up” the upscaling in WvW, give more of a stat boost to low level chars to compensate for Ascended. “Upscaling” was supposed to make WvW more “fair” for lower level people.

Taking the effort in account, armour- and weapon-crafting professions are similar up to 400 and we must assume they will be similar from 400 – 500 and even on 500.

If crafting 1 piece of ascended armour finally really takes about the same time/money/farming as 1 ascended weapon most of us won´t run out of grinding to the bone – until Anet increases the level-cap.

And they probably will make us want better-quality infusions somewhere inbetween.

Given the current system the only chance to not go completely overboard with ascended is to add other, much more easier and still reliable ways to get them (which would make crafting them obsolete).

hydeaut.1758:

Given the current system the only chance to not go completely overboard with ascended is to add other, much more easier and still reliable ways to get them (which would make crafting them obsolete).

That’s what I fail to understand…
Why force people who want ascended for so much grind… It’s just not worth it and it made so many people disappointed. Instead of making game more fun more and more people I know say that they don’t want to play in this grind and gear matters a lot, not to mention all transmutation crystals that go to waste with ascended weapons (and armors after this) and I mean like 5-6 per character on 8 characters that I care for (1 per each class). That really disappoints me a lot.

just commenting here to save the thread for me, push it to the dev’s attention and maybe someday read an answer.

great thread btw!

HiddenNick.7206:

Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.

Yeah, the ‘AC gear is good’ thread you made didn’t work out so well for you did it? You see, the ‘AC gear is bad’ threads are ones made by people who think differently on the subject than you do. It would appear from both the ‘AC gear is good’ and the ‘AC gear is bad’ threads that a whole lot of people don’t like vertical progression. I imagine the conversation will continue unabated…just my guess.

This feels really sloppily done. Not the post, but the way ANet excecuted Ascended weapons.

It feels like they thought, “OK GUYS ASCENDED WEAPONS TIME” and that was all that was considered. They didn’t seem to think about people who dislike crafting, people who hardly play PVE, people who don’t capture keeps, people who are defending in WvW, people who dislike being part of the great Zerg, people who can’t log on everyday and especially people who don’t like the prospect of another gear tier. They could’ve immensely polished the method of application.

And I expect someone to respond with the obligatory, “Noone’s forcing you to do anything” but honestly, that’s pretty cruddy that if you don’t craft or play lots of PVE, you’ll be left behind in he dust.

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

im guessing the publisher/other stake holders in the business wanted to see this and forced anet to do so.

ArenaNet IS the publisher, being a part of NCSoft (“ArenaNet” is just a brand and a label for one of their divisions that exists mainly for accounting and tax purposes) and having no independance.

Just ignore Maddoctor. He’s either delusional or a troll. Keep arguing and and the mods will have grounds for deleting the thread. And they will find every reason to do it.

At this point, I can’t help but recall Mike Obrian’s statement about VP. How is whatever we have right now less static than GW1? Even if the numbers in GW1 didn’t get any higher, the possibilities provided by the skill system extended to the stars. Now, in GW2, if we want some semblance of variety we’re forced through horrendous time gates simply to the most of your build. This was a problem even before the introduction of AC gear, because if you had alts you had to grind to 80 and then kit them out as well. How is GW1 more static than this?

Raine.1394:

HiddenNick.7206:

Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.

Yeah, the ‘AC gear is good’ thread you made didn’t work out so well for you did it? You see, the ‘AC gear is bad’ threads are ones made by people who think differently on the subject than you do. It would appear from both the ‘AC gear is good’ and the ‘AC gear is bad’ threads that a whole lot of people don’t like vertical progression. I imagine the conversation will continue unabated…just my guess.

Omg! I was discovered! Abort! Abort!

Ps. I was really hoping that everyone just changes their mind and agrees with me. Because that happens so often on the forums. lol

Good post. I read and fully agree with your opinions on how this game has turned out. This is not the game I bought lol.

MikaHR.1978:

I would like to point out little phrase “vote with your wallet” but since you cant do that, vote with not playing, not logging in.

Of course we can. I’m by not means a big spender in the cash shop, but ANet has earned over the box price again since launch from me.

I’m trying to make it as clear as possible to them through these forums that the reason they are no longer receiving any cash (though I know it was not a huge amount to start with) from me, is due to their implementation of Ascended gear.

I’m voting with both my wallet and mouth, and my current displeasure with the game has made me log in less recently, though is till continue to play. I’m hoping enough other people are doing these things that they will show up in ANet’s metrics and cause them to reconsider.

I don’t like ascended gear, but I can live with the compromise of relatively easy to get ascended gear. If ascended weapons and armor were reworked to be as easy to get as ascended jewelry, ANet would start getting money from me a lot sooner. As it is now, I expect I will not be spending real cash on gems until the middle of next year.