Guild Wars 2

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Khisanth.2948:

The problem with that advice is that more the people that follow it the worse it becomes.

So far, the evidence doesn’t support that. Whenever someone tries to manipulate the market (e.g. by buying up the existing supply at 1-2 g), people with “extra” start selling off some of their supply and the price returns to the existing equilibrium.

…where did you get “market manipulation” out of it?
It’s much simpler. At this moment there are two ways to get mc’s:
1. getting them directly (the slow way), or
2. farming gold and buying them

Obviously, the more players will be using the option 2, the greated the demand for the coins will be. This means the price will go up.
In the case of other materials, increased price would mean more people woud go out and farm those mats to sell, which would result in increase of supply, but MCs have limited and stable supply and can’t really be farmed, so that balance factor does not exist.

So yes, basically, the more people will listen to the “solution”, the greater the problem will be.

Astralporing.1957:

Remember, that when Anet introduced this gold daily reward, and some people were protesting, the answer was that it’s a significant increase of income for a large part of the playerbase. Seriously, most players do not do dailies every day. Most players do not have daily average incomes counted in many multiplies of gold coins. For many players, 150g is a gold amount they never had at once – a fortune.

The flip side of that is that most players do not play the game every day. It’s not meaningful to talk about daily income when the hours played per day can vary immensely. What is relevant here is income per hour of play.

We have not-completely-unreasonable estimates of that from gw2efficiency – look at core cases (500-4000 hours played distribution and 15-85% wealth distributions within those buckets) and you have an average income in the 7-8 gold per hour range. Yes, this is of players engaged enough to be on gw2efficiency, but that’s your core player base 4 years into the game, yes?

The players playing less than an hour in a play session, only a couple times a week, are not players looking at buying up stacks of mystic coins to make legendaries.

A 2000 gold legendary represents the wealth from about 250 hours of gameplay at that median. At the median attached player rate of 1.3 hours per day (casuals will be even less, of course), you’re looking at around 200 days to make a legendary.

Are Mystic Coins really being added to the game too slowly for that demographic?

Greener.6204:

Doam.8305:

Greener.6204:

Cyninja.2954:

… making Mystic Coins cheaper would merely shift cost to another part of the item.

Also: Cheaper MC —> More legendaries crafted --> More high tier mats consumed —> Higher prices in other markets.

— means more money in the pockets of the poor who can sell a variety of different items not just coins to fund their gaming needs

No, it doesn’t. The rate of MC and other material gathering is the same across groups of players, rich or poor. The money that people get from the TP is equal to what players put into the TP (ignoring the tax). So a player spending 500g on a project will have that 500g spread across those materials regardless of the individual material prices.

E.g. If the Buyer spends 100g on MC, and 400g on other mats, then the sellers get 500g. If the Buyer spends 50g on MC and 450g on other mats, then the sellers get 500g.

In fact, having MC at a higher price ensures that all sellers, regardless of their farming habits, have a good portion of the profit. It rewards people for just logging in.

Your missing the point
Plus your example doesn’t counter anything I’ve stated

MC is not a currency it is a mat and a basic mat at that akin to maybe corn or steel in the real world. It’s pretty basic that when a core resource like that is inflated it stifles all the products up the line. In this case it’s legendaries and it’s been stated numerous times that the other mats used I. The later stages of production are all dropping in part because fewer are. Ring made. It’s been said since the first legends were introduced that clovers are your first task. That first task has been made slower and thus requires more MC. Coupled with that the over all cost has gone up for MC and at this late stage of the game it only makes sense that the vast majority of legendary crafters alreadyvown one and your crafting additionals because they can. These multicrafters are the easiest to deter and the driving for of this games economy. So yeah gold for gold like you said but that gold is spreading farther and the sellers are getting paid less.

When you get right down to it this is a game and there are many things preventing it from being a normal economy. The MC situation is a straight up bubble on an item way to low on the production line that’s effecting the entire market. Raising the price is suicidal for the market the value of the other goods will only increase. If the items created weren’t account bound the damage caused by this obvious bubble would be more apparent but for now it’s pretty obvious a freely given gated mat should never be a focal point of the economy like MC are right now. Anet knows this and it’s the reason why laurels are a currency and they’ve tried to deflate the toxic MC bubble by tossing MC coins out with dailies and with the legendary anomoly.. Denuing MC is in a bad spot or in a bubble is just going up against the fact that Anet has tried to take action already it’s just been to small and the MC bubble has grown while the other mats used in crafting continue to stockpile and drop in price.

Doam.8305:

Greener.6204:

Doam.8305:

Greener.6204:

Cyninja.2954:

… making Mystic Coins cheaper would merely shift cost to another part of the item.

Also: Cheaper MC —> More legendaries crafted --> More high tier mats consumed —> Higher prices in other markets.

— means more money in the pockets of the poor who can sell a variety of different items not just coins to fund their gaming needs

No, it doesn’t. The rate of MC and other material gathering is the same across groups of players, rich or poor. The money that people get from the TP is equal to what players put into the TP (ignoring the tax). So a player spending 500g on a project will have that 500g spread across those materials regardless of the individual material prices.

E.g. If the Buyer spends 100g on MC, and 400g on other mats, then the sellers get 500g. If the Buyer spends 50g on MC and 450g on other mats, then the sellers get 500g.

In fact, having MC at a higher price ensures that all sellers, regardless of their farming habits, have a good portion of the profit. It rewards people for just logging in.

Your missing the point
Plus your example doesn’t counter anything I’ve stated

MC is not a currency it is a mat and a basic mat at that akin to maybe corn or steel in the real world. It’s pretty basic that when a core resource like that is inflated it stifles all the products up the line. In this case it’s legendaries and it’s been stated numerous times that the other mats used I. The later stages of production are all dropping in part because fewer are. Ring made. It’s been said since the first legends were introduced that clovers are your first task. That first task has been made slower and thus requires more MC. Coupled with that the over all cost has gone up for MC and at this late stage of the game it only makes sense that the vast majority of legendary crafters alreadyvown one and your crafting additionals because they can. These multicrafters are the easiest to deter and the driving for of this games economy. So yeah gold for gold like you said but that gold is spreading farther and the sellers are getting paid less.

When you get right down to it this is a game and there are many things preventing it from being a normal economy. The MC situation is a straight up bubble on an item way to low on the production line that’s effecting the entire market. Raising the price is suicidal for the market the value of the other goods will only increase. If the items created weren’t account bound the damage caused by this obvious bubble would be more apparent but for now it’s pretty obvious a freely given gated mat should never be a focal point of the economy like MC are right now. Anet knows this and it’s the reason why laurels are a currency and they’ve tried to deflate the toxic MC bubble by tossing MC coins out with dailies and with the legendary anomoly.. Denuing MC is in a bad spot or in a bubble is just going up against the fact that Anet has tried to take action already it’s just been to small and the MC bubble has grown while the other mats used in crafting continue to stockpile and drop in price.

Please stop making claims without backing them up. Just because you think it’s true doesn’t mean it is true, and unfounded arguments are simply annoying to wade through.

“MC is not a currency it is a mat and a basic mat at that akin to maybe corn or steel in the real world.” – Proof? MCs are used for high level crafting. I don’t see how they can parallel to basic necessities.

“The MC situation is a straight up bubble” – Proof? If this were true, then all you need to do is wait for it to burst, and the price will come crashing down. Might want to sell your MCs now if that’s your belief.

“freely given gated mat should never be a focal point of the economy like MC are right now” – Proof? While MCs, like all mats, have an effect on the economy, I do not see how they are a focal point. Their uses are limited.

The rest of your words back up my statement: MC prices have a tendency to inversely push on other markets. If you’d like, you can see MC production as a brake on the markets: If too many are produced, then too many high level weapons are made, so prices of other mats go up, putting production of regular items like armour out of the reach of poorer players (the people you seem to be concerned about).

Mystic Coins are used for other things than legendaries, including a lot of mystic forge weapons that used to be low-end. Everyone conveniently forgets that part for some reason.

vesica tempestas.1563:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

You can always place an order for them at 50s. If someone agrees that it’s a good idea, they’ll sell it to you.

Failing that, consult guildies, friends, and other trustworthy individuals that think similarly so you can trade internally. A pool of 10-20 people is more than enough to generate the coins needed.

You’d have to wait for the tens of thousands of buy orders with higher prices than 50 silver to be filled before someone would fill yours. So this doesn’t actually work

Oh, so you mean these tens of thousands of people think a higher price than that is reasonable?

Just because you have a buy order out does not mean you think the price is reasonable. If you need coins you need coins, and since its just not practical to gather them yourself, that means resorting to buying them. And if you have to resort to buying them, you have to put up a buy order that actually has a chance at being filled.

That need is purely subjective.

It is not about needing coins. It is about needing coins now. The game gives you coins for free. You can also get 1 a day and from the occasional daily. You can also get mystic clovers from the track.

The problem actually fixes itself

No, it doesn’t. You people really need to start letting go of this notion that you can gather the coins you need yourself if you are just patient. If you want just 2 HoT legendary weapons, that requires a bare minimum of 500 Mystic Coins. With 20 guaranteed each month, assume (lets be extremely generous here) 5 MF dailies each month, that’s 25 guaranteed MC each month. At 500 needed as a bare minimum, this is almost 2 years worth of waiting to gather the coins yourself. That’t not acceptable to wait for 2 skins. It just isn’t.

lets say 6 months is a reasonable time to get a legendary from scratch, so in that time you gained 150 coins simple from playing, so basically you need to earn a paltry 2 gold a day to buy those coins which takes minutes to earn. the issue is the modern ‘i want it now’ culture.

Thank you for proving my point. There is no viable option to just gather your own coins. They all fall back towards buying coins in the end. Just because it might be “easy” to earn that gold doesn’t change the fact that it just is not viable to gather the coins yourself. So people need to stop spreading that around as if it is true.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Khisanth.2948:

The problem with that advice is that more the people that follow it the worse it becomes.

So far, the evidence doesn’t support that. Whenever someone tries to manipulate the market (e.g. by buying up the existing supply at 1-2 g), people with “extra” start selling off some of their supply and the price returns to the existing equilibrium.

It could be a problem in the future; I think we can wait to see if it becomes one rather than borrowing trouble.

That is not following the advice. Trying to manipulate the market is a completely different thing. It would only take around 75 people attempting to make HoT legendaries to buy out the entire current supply on the TP if we assume they all follow the advice and just farm gold then buy the coins.

OriOri.8724:

vesica tempestas.1563:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

You can always place an order for them at 50s. If someone agrees that it’s a good idea, they’ll sell it to you.

Failing that, consult guildies, friends, and other trustworthy individuals that think similarly so you can trade internally. A pool of 10-20 people is more than enough to generate the coins needed.

You’d have to wait for the tens of thousands of buy orders with higher prices than 50 silver to be filled before someone would fill yours. So this doesn’t actually work

Oh, so you mean these tens of thousands of people think a higher price than that is reasonable?

Just because you have a buy order out does not mean you think the price is reasonable. If you need coins you need coins, and since its just not practical to gather them yourself, that means resorting to buying them. And if you have to resort to buying them, you have to put up a buy order that actually has a chance at being filled.

That need is purely subjective.

It is not about needing coins. It is about needing coins now. The game gives you coins for free. You can also get 1 a day and from the occasional daily. You can also get mystic clovers from the track.

The problem actually fixes itself

No, it doesn’t. You people really need to start letting go of this notion that you can gather the coins you need yourself if you are just patient. If you want just 2 HoT legendary weapons, that requires a bare minimum of 500 Mystic Coins. With 20 guaranteed each month, assume (lets be extremely generous here) 5 MF dailies each month, that’s 25 guaranteed MC each month. At 500 needed as a bare minimum, this is almost 2 years worth of waiting to gather the coins yourself. That’t not acceptable to wait for 2 skins. It just isn’t.

lets say 6 months is a reasonable time to get a legendary from scratch, so in that time you gained 150 coins simple from playing, so basically you need to earn a paltry 2 gold a day to buy those coins which takes minutes to earn. the issue is the modern ‘i want it now’ culture.

Thank you for proving my point. There is no viable option to just gather your own coins. They all fall back towards buying coins in the end. Just because it might be “easy” to earn that gold doesn’t change the fact that it just is not viable to gather the coins yourself. So people need to stop spreading that around as if it is true.

Of course it’s not viable to farm your own coins their the most gated crafting mat in the game. With a good chunk of the population without login rewards there only option is to buy. Seems all the people arguing with you seem to forget some basic things in that you can’t buy anything with MC so it’s not a currency and shouldn’t be treated as suc and the most important part in that F2P accounts don’t have access to daily login rewards. They don’t get the gold, MC, laurels, or even the monthly loyalty chest. Considering a good chunk of the game is obviously F2P since it’s free a good chunk may be lucky to get maybe 3 coins a month on their own. So buying is their only option is to buy the MC if F2P accounts were allowed to post in the forums I’m sure they would have spoke up. F2P also can’t convert gold to gems so they have to straight up buy cash shop items so they’re still a very important part in this games community. More so than the ones who bought the box but don’t use the cash shop so it’s just another reason to adjust coins.

Doam.8305:

OriOri.8724:

vesica tempestas.1563:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

You can always place an order for them at 50s. If someone agrees that it’s a good idea, they’ll sell it to you.

Failing that, consult guildies, friends, and other trustworthy individuals that think similarly so you can trade internally. A pool of 10-20 people is more than enough to generate the coins needed.

You’d have to wait for the tens of thousands of buy orders with higher prices than 50 silver to be filled before someone would fill yours. So this doesn’t actually work

Oh, so you mean these tens of thousands of people think a higher price than that is reasonable?

Just because you have a buy order out does not mean you think the price is reasonable. If you need coins you need coins, and since its just not practical to gather them yourself, that means resorting to buying them. And if you have to resort to buying them, you have to put up a buy order that actually has a chance at being filled.

That need is purely subjective.

It is not about needing coins. It is about needing coins now. The game gives you coins for free. You can also get 1 a day and from the occasional daily. You can also get mystic clovers from the track.

The problem actually fixes itself

No, it doesn’t. You people really need to start letting go of this notion that you can gather the coins you need yourself if you are just patient. If you want just 2 HoT legendary weapons, that requires a bare minimum of 500 Mystic Coins. With 20 guaranteed each month, assume (lets be extremely generous here) 5 MF dailies each month, that’s 25 guaranteed MC each month. At 500 needed as a bare minimum, this is almost 2 years worth of waiting to gather the coins yourself. That’t not acceptable to wait for 2 skins. It just isn’t.

lets say 6 months is a reasonable time to get a legendary from scratch, so in that time you gained 150 coins simple from playing, so basically you need to earn a paltry 2 gold a day to buy those coins which takes minutes to earn. the issue is the modern ‘i want it now’ culture.

Thank you for proving my point. There is no viable option to just gather your own coins. They all fall back towards buying coins in the end. Just because it might be “easy” to earn that gold doesn’t change the fact that it just is not viable to gather the coins yourself. So people need to stop spreading that around as if it is true.

Of course it’s not viable to farm your own coins their the most gated crafting mat in the game. With a good chunk of the population without login rewards there only option is to buy. Seems all the people arguing with you seem to forget some basic things in that you can’t buy anything with MC so it’s not a currency and shouldn’t be treated as suc and the most important part in that F2P accounts don’t have access to daily login rewards. They don’t get the gold, MC, laurels, or even the monthly loyalty chest. Considering a good chunk of the game is obviously F2P since it’s free a good chunk may be lucky to get maybe 3 coins a month on their own. So buying is their only option is to buy the MC if F2P accounts were allowed to post in the forums I’m sure they would have spoke up. F2P also can’t convert gold to gems so they have to straight up buy cash shop items so they’re still a very important part in this games community. More so than the ones who bought the box but don’t use the cash shop so it’s just another reason to adjust coins.

Personally if I was a dev I’d be more likely to consider changing up the economy, login system and the events for players who have invested in the game by buying it than I would for players that play for free.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Doam.8305:

OriOri.8724:

vesica tempestas.1563:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

You can always place an order for them at 50s. If someone agrees that it’s a good idea, they’ll sell it to you.

Failing that, consult guildies, friends, and other trustworthy individuals that think similarly so you can trade internally. A pool of 10-20 people is more than enough to generate the coins needed.

You’d have to wait for the tens of thousands of buy orders with higher prices than 50 silver to be filled before someone would fill yours. So this doesn’t actually work

Oh, so you mean these tens of thousands of people think a higher price than that is reasonable?

Just because you have a buy order out does not mean you think the price is reasonable. If you need coins you need coins, and since its just not practical to gather them yourself, that means resorting to buying them. And if you have to resort to buying them, you have to put up a buy order that actually has a chance at being filled.

That need is purely subjective.

It is not about needing coins. It is about needing coins now. The game gives you coins for free. You can also get 1 a day and from the occasional daily. You can also get mystic clovers from the track.

The problem actually fixes itself

No, it doesn’t. You people really need to start letting go of this notion that you can gather the coins you need yourself if you are just patient. If you want just 2 HoT legendary weapons, that requires a bare minimum of 500 Mystic Coins. With 20 guaranteed each month, assume (lets be extremely generous here) 5 MF dailies each month, that’s 25 guaranteed MC each month. At 500 needed as a bare minimum, this is almost 2 years worth of waiting to gather the coins yourself. That’t not acceptable to wait for 2 skins. It just isn’t.

lets say 6 months is a reasonable time to get a legendary from scratch, so in that time you gained 150 coins simple from playing, so basically you need to earn a paltry 2 gold a day to buy those coins which takes minutes to earn. the issue is the modern ‘i want it now’ culture.

Thank you for proving my point. There is no viable option to just gather your own coins. They all fall back towards buying coins in the end. Just because it might be “easy” to earn that gold doesn’t change the fact that it just is not viable to gather the coins yourself. So people need to stop spreading that around as if it is true.

Of course it’s not viable to farm your own coins their the most gated crafting mat in the game. With a good chunk of the population without login rewards there only option is to buy. Seems all the people arguing with you seem to forget some basic things in that you can’t buy anything with MC so it’s not a currency and shouldn’t be treated as suc and the most important part in that F2P accounts don’t have access to daily login rewards. They don’t get the gold, MC, laurels, or even the monthly loyalty chest. Considering a good chunk of the game is obviously F2P since it’s free a good chunk may be lucky to get maybe 3 coins a month on their own. So buying is their only option is to buy the MC if F2P accounts were allowed to post in the forums I’m sure they would have spoke up. F2P also can’t convert gold to gems so they have to straight up buy cash shop items so they’re still a very important part in this games community. More so than the ones who bought the box but don’t use the cash shop so it’s just another reason to adjust coins.

Personally if I was a dev I’d be more likely to consider changing up the economy, login system and the events for players who have invested in the game by buying it than I would for players that play for free.

They make money through cash shop purchases so those who spend money in the cash shop would obviously take priority and they do as our cash shop is regularly updated. They can’t buy gliders but they can buy those dagger skins and the majority of that SAB stuff. The F2P model thrives on the shop after all as for the economy it’s an economy and whether their F2p or not it effects all players. There standing doesn’t really matter and it hurts all players by not treating them all equally since they are taking part in the in game transactions on the TP an effecting all the pricing on the items we all use.

A whale can still be a whale and never fork over a single penny to actually buy the game. It just means that HoT isn’t worth the investment to them but the flashy cash shop items are something they desire

Doam.8305:

They make money through cash shop purchases so those who spend money in the cash shop would obviously take priority and they do as our cash shop is regularly updated. They can’t buy gliders but they can buy those dagger skins and the majority of that SAB stuff. The F2P model thrives on the shop after all as for the economy it’s an economy and whether their F2p or not it effects all players. There standing doesn’t really matter and it hurts all players by not treating them all equally since they are taking part in the in game transactions on the TP an effecting all the pricing on the items we all use.
A whale can still be a whale and never fork over a single penny to actually buy the game. It just means that HoT isn’t worth the investment to them but the flashy cash shop items are something they desire

How much f2p buy from the gemstore and the percent of which are whales is pure speculation. You don’t have those numbers and it’s not possible for you to base your argument on numbers you don’t have. For all you know f2p players spend very little in the gemstore and most whales are paid for accounts. Please stick to known information rather than your guesses.

The mystic coin system is tied up with login rewards, high level crafting and events. To change the system on behalf of those who haven’t paid for the game and aren’t truly invested would be counterproductive as currently it’s part of the inducement to buy the game. If ANet is going to do so it should be for the ones that for sure have put their money down.

There standing doesn’t really matter and it hurts all players by not treating them all equally since they are taking part in the in game transactions on the TP an effecting all the pricing on the items we all use.

Their ability to use the trading post is limited so they don’t affect “all the pricing on the items we all use” as they cant buy or sell all items.

OriOri.8724:

vesica tempestas.1563:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

You can always place an order for them at 50s. If someone agrees that it’s a good idea, they’ll sell it to you.

Failing that, consult guildies, friends, and other trustworthy individuals that think similarly so you can trade internally. A pool of 10-20 people is more than enough to generate the coins needed.

You’d have to wait for the tens of thousands of buy orders with higher prices than 50 silver to be filled before someone would fill yours. So this doesn’t actually work

Oh, so you mean these tens of thousands of people think a higher price than that is reasonable?

Just because you have a buy order out does not mean you think the price is reasonable. If you need coins you need coins, and since its just not practical to gather them yourself, that means resorting to buying them. And if you have to resort to buying them, you have to put up a buy order that actually has a chance at being filled.

That need is purely subjective.

It is not about needing coins. It is about needing coins now. The game gives you coins for free. You can also get 1 a day and from the occasional daily. You can also get mystic clovers from the track.

The problem actually fixes itself

No, it doesn’t. You people really need to start letting go of this notion that you can gather the coins you need yourself if you are just patient. If you want just 2 HoT legendary weapons, that requires a bare minimum of 500 Mystic Coins. With 20 guaranteed each month, assume (lets be extremely generous here) 5 MF dailies each month, that’s 25 guaranteed MC each month. At 500 needed as a bare minimum, this is almost 2 years worth of waiting to gather the coins yourself. That’t not acceptable to wait for 2 skins. It just isn’t.

lets say 6 months is a reasonable time to get a legendary from scratch, so in that time you gained 150 coins simple from playing, so basically you need to earn a paltry 2 gold a day to buy those coins which takes minutes to earn. the issue is the modern ‘i want it now’ culture.

Thank you for proving my point. There is no viable option to just gather your own coins. They all fall back towards buying coins in the end. Just because it might be “easy” to earn that gold doesn’t change the fact that it just is not viable to gather the coins yourself. So people need to stop spreading that around as if it is true.

But it is true. You can get 250 in 5 months without buying it off the TP. That’s a fact.

What’s not a fact is that it’s “not viable”. You think that waiting 10 months for 2 legendaries isn’t viable. That’s purely an opinion.

I also find it pretty humorous that you’re trying to claim the price is not related to this topic. So if the situation were the same, but coins were at 10c, this would still be an issue?

Question: how old are the various 50/100 MC “sub-legendary” skins, like the skins made to look like ele bundle weapons or the weapons wielded by phantasms? Were they put in at a time when demand was dropping, to keep the demand high?

They have been around since forever. I remember blowing my bank on getting https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vision_of_the_Mists back when 250 ectos seemed like a ridiculous amount, and Orichalcum Ore was the most precious thing in the world due to its role in various crafts.

Speaking of the eldritch scroll weapons, back when sigils of energy were expensive, I would make https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courage instead and salvage.The result was me saving a few gold.

Oh the crazy stuff people had to do back then….

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

Question: how old are the various 50/100 MC “sub-legendary” skins, like the skins made to look like ele bundle weapons or the weapons wielded by phantasms? Were they put in at a time when demand was dropping, to keep the demand high?

Most of those have been in the game since launch.

Khisanth.2948:

The problem with that advice is that more the people that follow it the worse it becomes.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

So far, the evidence doesn’t support that. Whenever someone tries to manipulate the market (e.g. by buying up the existing supply at 1-2 g), people with “extra” start selling off some of their supply and the price returns to the existing equilibrium.

Astralporing.1957:

…where did you get “market manipulation” out of it?

Where did you?

The quote to which I responded was stating as a fact that there’s too little supply for additional people to choose to buy instead of wait. I used the past history to show that the supply is far more plentiful than most of us think, because most of the supply isn’t on the TP.

It happens that the history includes a period or two where someone tried to buy up all the supply on the TP; since that was quickly filled, it’s evidence that, no, the ‘problem’ won’t become worse simply because more people decide to buy coins.

In other words, my comment isn’t about market manipulation; it’s about us underestimating the supply.

Okay looking at the history on the TP and what went on at the time there were two, major shifts in MC supply.

First was the change from the old Daily/Monthly system to the new Login Reward system. Where the new system would reward you 20 Mystic Coins per 28 logins, you could earn 20 from just the old Monthly which could be achieved in a few days. This makes supply affected by how casual the player base is feeling. Sure, it’s only a couple of minutes everyday but depending on life, even booting the PC may not be a daily thing. And while the price shot up from 1.5s to 13s pre HoT, supply was pretty stable. Overall the supply of Mystic Coins dropped 160,000 when they announced the change was coming, down to under 200,000. Even the additional recipes for the guild hall and precursors didn’t significantly impact the price post HoT the rest of 2015.

Then came Winter’s Day 2015, in particular the Winter’s Presence shoulder piece. At the very minimum it costs 150 mystic coins to create the 3 items required. However two of those require Superior Runes and Sigils from the previous Winter’s Day that didn’t drop this Winter’s Day. And while there were a glut of them before, their use in acquiring Winter’s Presence depleted the glut overnight. But you could craft them. Only problem they used Mystic Coins in their crafting recipe, upwards of 1100 more. That depleted the supply of Mystic Coins by 120,000 that day, down to as low as 20,000. It recovered back to 100,000 after Winter’s Day but that was short lived as supply as drained to the 15-20,000 range within a month and has been hovering in the 10-30,000 range most of the time since with the price walking up from 25s to nearly 1g over that time.

So if you think there’s a chance you will ever need Mystic Coins, there’s no reason unless you are very desperate for gold, to sell any you get from the login rewards. Simply on the grounds that the price keeps going up.

TL;DR – Change from Monthly/Daily to Login might have hurt, Mystic Coin supply was done in by the Winter’s Presence shoulder piece needing 150-1250 Mystic Coins to make.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

It happens that the history includes a period or two where someone tried to buy up all the supply on the TP; since that was quickly filled, it’s evidence that, no, the ‘problem’ won’t become worse simply because more people decide to buy coins.

You are talking about a short-term increase of demand, that cannot be maintained long term. This can be “smoothed over” by using banked resources.

What would happen however if people started following that advice would not be a short spike in demand, but permanent increase. Something no market manipulator can do. No matter how much resources are banked, they’d run out eventually.

Astralporing.1957:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

It happens that the history includes a period or two where someone tried to buy up all the supply on the TP; since that was quickly filled, it’s evidence that, no, the ‘problem’ won’t become worse simply because more people decide to buy coins.

You are talking about a short-term increase of demand, that cannot be maintained long term. This can be “smoothed over” by using banked resources.

What would happen however if people started following that advice would not be a short spike in demand, but permanent increase. Something no market manipulator can do. No matter how much resources are banked, they’d run out eventually.

Yes and in that case we would approach a situation where supply into the game eventually becomes less than consumption. THEN arenanet might take a look at this, not before and we go full circle back to them stating that suply versus demand is currently in favor of supply.

Once that happens, we can all disscuss this again, no reason to adjust the market to some fictional maybe situation only because some players are unhappy with current pricing.

Khisanth.2948:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

jonemirant.1653:

mtpelion.4562:

ArenaNet has already confirmed that supply is outpacing demand. The issue is that you don’t want to wait or buy them.

This statement is essentially the same as “there is a lot of money in the economy and the banks are flooded with cash, you just happen to be poor.”

I’m saying that there should be a way to actively farm this material, and thus allowing “hardworking” people to get more of them, instead of freely given to people who may not need them but get them anyway just by logging in, and yet never sells them because the price is expected keep going up.

There IS a method for a “hardworking” person to obtain more mystic coins, and the secret will blow your mind!

It’s this…

<drum roll>

Step one, do any dang thing you want in the game.

Step two, sell the loot you get for gold.

Step three, purchase mystic coins from the trading post for gold.

…and bam, your hard work got turned into more mystic coins! Magic!

The problem with that advice is that more the people that follow it the worse it becomes.

I have to assume that you mean “the more people buying off the trading post, the higher the price will go”, right, because it’s not like “doing stuff” has reduced rewards as people do it.

…and you are correct, that is one possible outcome of the situation. Unfortunately for you, we also had people try and “prove” your theory by spending significant in-game gold to purchase mystic coins up to the five gold mark.

Within 24 hours the price had returned to where it was to begin with. eg: the other possible outcome happened, and we saw that raising the price led to more people making coins available for purchase, leading to a price winding up where the market feels comfortable about it.

So….. yeah. Maybe, eventually, if people stop complaining and start actually buying mystic coins we will find that the price rises. Until that actually happens in the real world, though…

…it looks like the supply exceeds demand, to the point it can comfortably absorb multiple attempts to significantly move the price over a short space of time. That’s a healthy market….

Khisanth.2948:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Khisanth.2948:

The problem with that advice is that more the people that follow it the worse it becomes.

So far, the evidence doesn’t support that. Whenever someone tries to manipulate the market (e.g. by buying up the existing supply at 1-2 g), people with “extra” start selling off some of their supply and the price returns to the existing equilibrium.

It could be a problem in the future; I think we can wait to see if it becomes one rather than borrowing trouble.

That is not following the advice. Trying to manipulate the market is a completely different thing. It would only take around 75 people attempting to make HoT legendaries to buy out the entire current supply on the TP if we assume they all follow the advice and just farm gold then buy the coins.

Note: several attempts were made to manipulate the market, by purchasing everything listed below the 5 gold mark, some months back (during the last big reddit support group for this.)

The market recovered from them within 24 hours. So… if those 75 people did start buying heavily, the price would rise some, more coins would be listed, and the market would carry on.

That’s a healthy market, demonstrated by real world action.

Zaraki.5784:

mtpelion.4562:

ArenaNet has already confirmed that supply is outpacing demand. The issue is that you don’t want to wait or buy them.

I often read this kind of comments and i completely disagree, if ANet says X, we don’t necessarily have to agree with, that’s what forums and complains are for, in the hope that seeing the displeasure of many, they change their mind!

You can disagree with statements of opinion from ANet, reasonably.

The problem is that you are disagreeing with a statement of fact, since anet are in a position to actually know how many MCs are coming in, and how many are being consumed, and to observe the action on the trading post, etc, for obtaining them.

So, you need to accept that there is more supply than demand on mystic coins as a fact in this discussion.

It’s legitimate for you to say, for example, “despite that, I think prices should be lower, and I believe that more supply would help with that because <reason>.” go right ahead?

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

Thank you for proving my point. There is no viable option to just gather your own coins. They all fall back towards buying coins in the end. Just because it might be “easy” to earn that gold doesn’t change the fact that it just is not viable to gather the coins yourself. So people need to stop spreading that around as if it is true.

But it is true. You can get 250 in 5 months without buying it off the TP. That’s a fact.

What’s not a fact is that it’s “not viable”. You think that waiting 10 months for 2 legendaries isn’t viable. That’s purely an opinion.

I also find it pretty humorous that you’re trying to claim the price is not related to this topic. So if the situation were the same, but coins were at 10c, this would still be an issue?

I’ve answered that question before, but it was buried in another thread so I’m not surprised if you didn’t see my answer. But yes, I would still be upset if the coins were even 1 copper each on the TP.

And I’d be upset because I completely disagree with the rate of acquisition of coins versus how many are required for the new legendary weapons. I genuinely don’t mind gen1 legendaries, because there are ways available to farm clovers if you want to (and because you can get clovers from the daily login reward at the end of the track if you want to). Its not quick, its not efficient, but at least it exists.

But gen2 legendaries require a stack of coins. And the only way to acquire them outside of buying them is to wait at least 5 months, but usually quite a bit longer since in my experience its really difficult to find a group that can complete the ley line anomaly any more. Which means that the only two options are to buy them or to literally sit on your ass and wait. Logging in for 1 minutes each day to collect the daily login rewards. There is no way to earn your coins. Absolutely no way to do so. There is no reward track you can complete to get mystic coins. There is no option to get ~20 mystic coins instead of clovers at the end of the daily login reward cycle. There is nothing. The only ways to acquire them are RNG or hope you get a group that can complete the ley line anomaly, but that is even time gated to 1 coin a day.

There is nothing you can do to get around this fact, nothing. It doesn’t have to be efficient, it doesn’t have to be fast, but we do need a way to acquire mystic coins that is not time gated nor reliant on RNG. So yes, I would still have a problem if MC were only 1 copper on the trading post, because there is no alternative to buying them. Waiting on your ass is not an alternative. What is legendary about just waiting for months on end for MC to pile up? Absolutely nothing. All I want is a way to go out and earn MC. Even something as simple as having reward tracks give out a handful of MC on par with how many clovers they give (as an either or option, you’d choose either clovers or coins) would be enough for me.

At the very least, I want to see the loyalty chest updated to include a choice for 20 MC. This is fewer MC than what you need to create the 7 clovers you can already choose, which also come with other kitten, so it would be balanced against the already existing prices. Would this solve the problem? No, because we would still lack a way to go out and earn your own MC that wasn’t reliant on RNG or having a massive zerg that can complete ley line anomaly. But it would at least be something. And its in line with current rewards to boot.

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

OriOri.8724:

Thank you for proving my point. There is no viable option to just gather your own coins. They all fall back towards buying coins in the end. Just because it might be “easy” to earn that gold doesn’t change the fact that it just is not viable to gather the coins yourself. So people need to stop spreading that around as if it is true.

But it is true. You can get 250 in 5 months without buying it off the TP. That’s a fact.

What’s not a fact is that it’s “not viable”. You think that waiting 10 months for 2 legendaries isn’t viable. That’s purely an opinion.

I also find it pretty humorous that you’re trying to claim the price is not related to this topic. So if the situation were the same, but coins were at 10c, this would still be an issue?

I’ve answered that question before, but it was buried in another thread so I’m not surprised if you didn’t see my answer. But yes, I would still be upset if the coins were even 1 copper each on the TP.

And I’d be upset because I completely disagree with the rate of acquisition of coins versus how many are required for the new legendary weapons. I genuinely don’t mind gen1 legendaries, because there are ways available to farm clovers if you want to (and because you can get clovers from the daily login reward at the end of the track if you want to). Its not quick, its not efficient, but at least it exists.

But gen2 legendaries require a stack of coins. And the only way to acquire them outside of buying them is to wait at least 5 months, but usually quite a bit longer since in my experience its really difficult to find a group that can complete the ley line anomaly any more. Which means that the only two options are to buy them or to literally sit on your ass and wait. Logging in for 1 minutes each day to collect the daily login rewards. There is no way to earn your coins. Absolutely no way to do so. There is no reward track you can complete to get mystic coins. There is no option to get ~20 mystic coins instead of clovers at the end of the daily login reward cycle. There is nothing. The only ways to acquire them are RNG or hope you get a group that can complete the ley line anomaly, but that is even time gated to 1 coin a day.

There is nothing you can do to get around this fact, nothing. It doesn’t have to be efficient, it doesn’t have to be fast, but we do need a way to acquire mystic coins that is not time gated nor reliant on RNG. So yes, I would still have a problem if MC were only 1 copper on the trading post, because there is no alternative to buying them. Waiting on your ass is not an alternative. What is legendary about just waiting for months on end for MC to pile up? Absolutely nothing. All I want is a way to go out and earn MC. Even something as simple as having reward tracks give out a handful of MC on par with how many clovers they give (as an either or option, you’d choose either clovers or coins) would be enough for me.

At the very least, I want to see the loyalty chest updated to include a choice for 20 MC. This is fewer MC than what you need to create the 7 clovers you can already choose, which also come with other kitten, so it would be balanced against the already existing prices. Would this solve the problem? No, because we would still lack a way to go out and earn your own MC that wasn’t reliant on RNG or having a massive zerg that can complete ley line anomaly. But it would at least be something. And its in line with current rewards to boot.

And what’s so legendary about doing anything in 2-3 months?

If you have the output to produce a legendary sans mystic coins in that time, then I think that’s already an exceptional accomplishment and honestly the idea that you have to get them yourself seems pretty arbitrary. I don’t think that could be considered sitting on one’s ass at all. You’re basically placing an arbitrary restriction that every single coin has to be self farmed, instead of maybe buying some and waiting for others. That’s what you call a false dilemma.

On the other hand at least it is good that you don’t care about the prices. It does seem like there’s more than one argument in the matter.

I mean it’s fine that you have this style of play, but the game doesn’t happen in a vacuum. And I don’t have anything against picking 20 coins over 20 laurels as an option either.

OriOri.8724:

But gen2 legendaries require a stack of coins. And the only way to acquire them outside of buying them is to wait at least 5 months, but usually quite a bit longer since in my experience its really difficult to find a group that can complete the ley line anomaly any more. Which means that the only two options are to buy them or to literally sit on your ass and wait. Logging in for 1 minutes each day to collect the daily login rewards. There is no way to earn your coins. Absolutely no way to do so. There is no reward track you can complete to get mystic coins. There is no option to get ~20 mystic coins instead of clovers at the end of the daily login reward cycle. There is nothing. The only ways to acquire them are RNG or hope you get a group that can complete the ley line anomaly, but that is even time gated to 1 coin a day.

There is nothing you can do to get around this fact, nothing. It doesn’t have to be efficient, it doesn’t have to be fast, but we do need a way to acquire mystic coins that is not time gated nor reliant on RNG. So yes, I would still have a problem if MC were only 1 copper on the trading post, because there is no alternative to buying them. Waiting on your ass is not an alternative. What is legendary about just waiting for months on end for MC to pile up? Absolutely nothing. All I want is a way to go out and earn MC. Even something as simple as having reward tracks give out a handful of MC on par with how many clovers they give (as an either or option, you’d choose either clovers or coins) would be enough for me.

How about the T7 materials needed for those legendary weapons?
How about all of the other materials needed for those weapons?

Unless people are farming everything themselves, and do not buy anything off the TP, I don’t see complaints about buying mystic coins off the TP as a valid argument. If you can buy other things off the TP then you can buy the coins too.

As far as no reward tracks for mystic coins, it’s not needed. Out of those two stacks for the legendary weapons, one of them is for mystic clovers. Players can do the reward tracks for the clovers which reduces the number of coins that they need in half.

I doubt anyone would actually still have issues with how mystic coins are acquired if they were back to being near vendor cost. Nobody complained back then when they were cheap. How many other items, which are similar, are people not complaining about only because they’re still cheap?

I only have 1,595 mystic coins. People say I have a hording problem, that I’m burying myself in all this stuff I collect, but I tell them I don’t have a problem. I have plenty of room with maxed bank slots, an alt account with storage characters, 8 storage characters on this account, and four storage guilds with maxed vault space. Does that sound like a problem to any of you guys? I thought not!

The majority of complaints about mystic coin prices are coming from ppl who havnt got any, and are looking for someone or something to blame.
Ppl who have got lots are fair game as they are classed as hoarders.
The entire purpose of having a bank in the game is to allow ppl to store stuff for later.
Doing this is not hoarding.
Im surprised that so far no one is complaining that legendary weapons on the TP are too high, and that Anet should fix this.

mauried.5608:

Im surprised that so far no one is complaining that legendary weapons on the TP are too high, and that Anet should fix this.

That’s because prices for legendaries are relative cheap right now, compared to historical values.

mtpelion.4562

ArenaNet has already confirmed that supply is outpacing demand. The issue is that you don’t want to wait or buy them.

Let see what else ANet said before:
1. HoT will contain a full set of legendary weapons – false
2. The chronomancer will be the only class using Alacrity – false.
3. The economy is so well balanced that we can afford to not interfere with it anymore – shortly after this statement a new “farming point” (farming !!! ) was invented to compensate the unbalanced supply/demand for leather.

I stop here because counting all the false ANet statements can fill pages. Why all these? To point that the statement regarding the MC cannot be taken as true only because ANet said.

A personal curiosity: The supply of MC can be tracked very easy. But what ANet considers “demand” in the case of MC? How ANet calculates the “demand”? ANet never told us this small detail :-) For example: I want to craft the Spirit weapons. But because I also want to craft a Legendary I will never have the MC for the Spirit weapons (470 for the set). I have all the materials, except the MC. Now, what “demand” means for ANet: the 100 MC I will buy in few days to complete my Legendary or the 570 I need for the items I want? And – my actions will contribute to this “demand” only when I will buy the MC? Is this “demand” a valid parameter? What about “needs” ? Instead of "how many MC are “demanded” – from TP" – why ANet is not not using “how many MC are needed by players”?

Illconceived Was Na.9781

It’s essentially the same as saying, “you can choose to wait to get the mystic coins or you can choose to pay; up to you.”

From the possible ways you can choose, the choice with “go on the field, play the game as usual and get the coins as any other crafting material existing in the game” is missing. Is exactly what OriOri.8724 says – no choice to gather the MC by playing.

I may be a hopeless dreamer, but I still remember the “play how you want” statement from ANet. And I want to gather the MC by my own action, not to buy or to wait decades for some items.
OOOOH !!!! This “play how you want” was another false statement ?

SlippyCheeze.5483:

I have to assume that you mean “the more people buying off the trading post, the higher the price will go”, right, because it’s not like “doing stuff” has reduced rewards as people do it.

…and you are correct, that is one possible outcome of the situation. Unfortunately for you, we also had people try and “prove” your theory by spending significant in-game gold to purchase mystic coins up to the five gold mark.

Within 24 hours the price had returned to where it was to begin with. eg: the other possible outcome happened, and we saw that raising the price led to more people making coins available for purchase, leading to a price winding up where the market feels comfortable about it.

You assume here that the gold used was indeed significant (when JS has been telling us many times before that the market is simply too big for one player to have that much of an impact).

Ayrilana.1396:

Unless people are farming everything themselves, and do not buy anything off the TP, I don’t see complaints about buying mystic coins off the TP as a valid argument.

I actually do try to farm everything myself. When i end up with something i can’t farm (either literally, or in some dependable way) , i end up extremely annoyed and dispirited. Needing to buy something off TP cheapens the creation process for me.

Ayrilana.1396:

OriOri.8724:

But gen2 legendaries require a stack of coins. And the only way to acquire them outside of buying them is to wait at least 5 months, but usually quite a bit longer since in my experience its really difficult to find a group that can complete the ley line anomaly any more. Which means that the only two options are to buy them or to literally sit on your ass and wait. Logging in for 1 minutes each day to collect the daily login rewards. There is no way to earn your coins. Absolutely no way to do so. There is no reward track you can complete to get mystic coins. There is no option to get ~20 mystic coins instead of clovers at the end of the daily login reward cycle. There is nothing. The only ways to acquire them are RNG or hope you get a group that can complete the ley line anomaly, but that is even time gated to 1 coin a day.

There is nothing you can do to get around this fact, nothing. It doesn’t have to be efficient, it doesn’t have to be fast, but we do need a way to acquire mystic coins that is not time gated nor reliant on RNG. So yes, I would still have a problem if MC were only 1 copper on the trading post, because there is no alternative to buying them. Waiting on your ass is not an alternative. What is legendary about just waiting for months on end for MC to pile up? Absolutely nothing. All I want is a way to go out and earn MC. Even something as simple as having reward tracks give out a handful of MC on par with how many clovers they give (as an either or option, you’d choose either clovers or coins) would be enough for me.

How about the T7 materials needed for those legendary weapons?
How about all of the other materials needed for those weapons?

Unless people are farming everything themselves, and do not buy anything off the TP, I don’t see complaints about buying mystic coins off the TP as a valid argument. If you can buy other things off the TP then you can buy the coins too.

As far as no reward tracks for mystic coins, it’s not needed. Out of those two stacks for the legendary weapons, one of them is for mystic clovers. Players can do the reward tracks for the clovers which reduces the number of coins that they need in half.

I doubt anyone would actually still have issues with how mystic coins are acquired if they were back to being near vendor cost. Nobody complained back then when they were cheap. How many other items, which are similar, are people not complaining about only because they’re still cheap?

Its sort of logical that people wouldnt complain about something when its cheap. They want to hunt it because they feel the price people are asking is so much that they would rather go out and get it somewhere else.

Lets say i buy some elder wood from the TP, I am choosing to pay that price, because the item’s cost is worth it to me based on what i have to do to get it. But mystic coins dont feel good to buy if the price is higher than you think its worth, because you have no choice, it FEELS like you are being robbed./extorted. Now if the price is so low that it doesnt require much thought, less people will be at that point.

basiaclly mystic coins were always sort of a bad idea, but by increasing the demand, and decreasing the amount earned over time, you have a really crazy time gate for players unless they pay TP prices, which has a drastically different value for different players. Some people earn 1000 gold a day, and 1 gold is a pittance.
Some earn 6 gold a day, and needing 500 mystic coins means they will be spending all of their income for 80 days for one small part of an item that supposed to be inspiring them to keep playing.

Cristalyan.5728:

Let see what else ANet said before:
1. HoT will contain a full set of legendary weapons – false

No, it’s simply not true yet.

Cristalyan.5728:

2. The chronomancer will be the only class using Alacrity – false.

It was the first profession to use it; I don’t remember any promise that it would be the only one. Do you have a source?

Cristalyan.5728:

3. The economy is so well balanced that we can afford to not interfere with it anymore – shortly after this statement a new “farming point” (farming !!! ) was invented to compensate the unbalanced supply/demand for leather.

That’s nothing close to what John Smith said.

Cristalyan.5728:

I stop here because counting all the false ANet statements can fill pages. Why all these? To point that the statement regarding the MC cannot be taken as true only because ANet said.

You might want to actually distinguish between “false statements” and “things that turned out to be different from what fans expected.”

Cristalyan.5728:

A personal curiosity: The supply of MC can be tracked very easy.

Not really. Most of the supply is not on the TP. ANet has access to the total number of coins in storage; we don’t.

Cristalyan.5728:

But what ANet considers “demand” in the case of MC? How ANet calculates the “demand”?

As with supply, there are a couple of tools: the number of buy offers on the TP, the number of people with certain amounts of coins making things that require coins, the number of people with gold enough that aren’t using m-coin recipes, and so on.
——————————————

Illconceived Was Na.9781

It’s essentially the same as saying, “you can choose to wait to get the mystic coins or you can choose to pay; up to you.”

Cristalyan.5728:

From the possible ways you can choose, the choice with “go on the field, play the game as usual and get the coins as any other crafting material existing in the game” is missing. Is exactly what OriOri.8724 says – no choice to gather the MC by playing.

And I’m saying that there’s no particular reason why we should ‘need’ to get the coins through other methods. ANet gives us a Generation 1 legendary’s worth of coins each year (and then some). If we want more luxuries, we can pay those who don’t want them for their coins.

Cristalyan.5728:

I may be a hopeless dreamer, but I still remember the “play how you want” statement from ANet. And I want to gather the MC by my own action, not to buy or to wait decades for some items.
OOOOH !!!! This “play how you want” was another false statement ?

You misremember. First, this is exactly a “play as you want” situation: do any content you like; sell what you don’t need; use the coin to pay for the stuff you really want, including more coins than ANet gives us for free.

Second, the statement never said anything about getting identical rewards regardless of what we did. Everything in the game earns rewards, including loot, coin, XP, and various currencies. We can play whatever we like and invest our rewards the way we want.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Cristalyan.5728:

Let see what else ANet said before:
1. HoT will contain a full set of legendary weapons – false

No, it’s simply not true yet.

I would like to ammend to it, as I rewatched the topic in their original anouncement. Apparantly they said “HoT will introduce new legendary weapons, and later raids with an all new reward: legendary armor”.
Notice the keyword “introduce”, meaning it won’t be part of the HoT content, but will be carried by it.
True, and as they said, it became a much bigger challenge than they originally thought it would be. Their original agenda would have had the armor and the full 2nd gen of weapons out by now. So they had to scrap some stuff and prioritize the armor. But they never said that the 2nd gen weapons and the armor would be released with the expansion, only that the expansion would introduce them.

Cristalyan.5728:

Let see what else ANet said before:
1. HoT will contain a full set of legendary weapons – false

No, 7 months before HoT was dropped they said this:

For now, I’ll say that we’ve been working hard on new legendary weapons, the first handful of which will be introduced in Heart of Thorns, with more to come in subsequent updates.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-legendary-journey/

Same is true with Legendary Armors. All that was promised was work toward the precursor armor via Raiding.

Apparently failed promises = lies.

John told me he’d buy me a soda.
John didn’t buy me a soda.
John said the world is round.
John is a liar because he didn’t buy me a soda.
Liars cannot be trusted.
Therefore, he is cannot be trusted when he says the world is round.
Therefore, the world is not round.

Man, I wouldn’t want to deal with some folks in real life.

jonemirant.1653:

Mystic Coin’s prices have risen from 10 silver to over 1 gold since early 2016.

Fix it yourself, lazy players. John Smith is actively doing nothing about this because of you!
jk.

It’s probably Barons like Wanze buying up supply as it enters the market, because most people just hoard them. It’s not as if people are forced to spend them (stick) and the incentive to create a nice item isn’t enough to dump them out of the economy (carrot), so in the bank they sit.

In fact, there’s only one way they should increase in value and that’s if they were being spent out of existence faster than they were supplied. Okay – I think that’s what’s happening now, forget what I said one paragraph ago.

I don’t hoard them because I don’t intend to make legendaries.

Let’s say right now I buy 1000 mystic coins, and save up all the ones I get. 20 a month for 2 years for 480. In that time, mystic coins are 3g each. That’s a massive profit of 2774 gold over 2 years after TP taxes!

Sounds like a great idea over what might happen. Except it’s really not. It’s 2774 gold over 2 years which amounts to 4 gold a day. Hell, you might not even be sure I’ll still be playing.

Of course, if you think it’ll go even higher, then you’re free to buy a few thousand now.

ArchonWing.9480:

I don’t hoard them because I don’t intend to make legendaries.

Let’s say right now I buy 1000 mystic coins, and save up all the ones I get. 20 a month for 2 years for 480. In that time, mystic coins are 3g each. That’s a massive profit of 2774 gold over 2 years after TP taxes!

Sounds like a great idea over what might happen. Except it’s really not. It’s 2774 gold over 2 years which amounts to 4 gold a day. Hell, you might not even be sure I’ll still be playing.

Of course, if you think it’ll go even higher, then you’re free to buy a few thousand now.

I suppose thats probably a healthy aproach. Don’t care about legendaries, they are locked behind a lot of mindless work. It’s probably why I would never want to buy some expensive racecar. Its impractical, doesnt provide anything useful and is just flashy. Its a waste of time and money.

I guess realising that this hasn’t really changed in almost 5 years, even with legendary journeys being added, makes alot of difference in how you see mystic coin prices.
If it’s completely obnoxious to get mystic coins in your opinion, then drop the goal tied to it and sell or slowly hoard and forget about them until that one day…. if youre still playing then anyway.

FrizzFreston.5290:

ArchonWing.9480:

I don’t hoard them because I don’t intend to make legendaries.

Let’s say right now I buy 1000 mystic coins, and save up all the ones I get. 20 a month for 2 years for 480. In that time, mystic coins are 3g each. That’s a massive profit of 2774 gold over 2 years after TP taxes!

Sounds like a great idea over what might happen. Except it’s really not. It’s 2774 gold over 2 years which amounts to 4 gold a day. Hell, you might not even be sure I’ll still be playing.

Of course, if you think it’ll go even higher, then you’re free to buy a few thousand now.

I suppose thats probably a healthy aproach. Don’t care about legendaries, they are locked behind a lot of mindless work. It’s probably why I would never want to buy some expensive racecar. Its impractical, doesnt provide anything useful and is just flashy. Its a waste of time and money.

I guess realising that this hasn’t really changed in almost 5 years, even with legendary journeys being added, makes alot of difference in how you see mystic coin prices.
If it’s completely obnoxious to get mystic coins in your opinion, then drop the goal tied to it and sell or slowly hoard and forget about them until that one day…. if youre still playing then anyway.

Yea, you summarized what I feel for the most part.

Personally, there’s just too much stuff involving it that I really would rather not deal with, and of course by relation many parts I don’t agree with at all. I think if I were to get a legendary of any kind, it’d be bought and that effectively confines me to the Gen 1 ones.

I mean mystic coins, t6 mats, precursors can be bought. I can get gold any way I want. Even tokens have an alternate way now. But a mastery point isn’t something I can ever buy (well, except the gold sink ones). Map exploration can’t be bought and ironically that HoT map explorations is one of the actual fun things to do.

So yea, I do feel if more people were like me and just refused to participate in this, then things will change. But not everyone should agree with that I understand.

Anyhow, sign of goodwill! Instead of hoarding coins I just sold the ones in my bank at “sell instantly” instead of squeezing the last silver out of it. Hope whoever bought it can go get some more t6 mats or something

ArchonWing.9480:

Anyhow, sign of goodwill! Instead of hoarding coins I just sold the ones in my bank at “sell instantly” instead of squeezing the last silver out of it. Hope whoever bought it can go get some more t6 mats or something

Probably silly of me to say, but I’ll say it anyway:

Thanks for your generosity.
I’m glad some people think beyond their own wallets.

ArchonWing.9480:

And what’s so legendary about doing anything in 2-3 months?

There’s nothing legendary about the legendary weapons. The 1st generation ones can be bought with a credit card. The 2nd generation ones have a whole lot of gold sink involved, which can also be bypassed with a credit card. Champion fights? Find a zerg, done in a minute, token awarded. About the only thing “challenging” with crafting the 2nd generation legendary weapons is the stupid Adventures. The only real legendary challenges with making them is doing the same content over and over and over until you just happen to get past all the bugs to get the item you need.
Anet is not capable of making an item for GW2 that, within the game world, would be considered a legendary achievement, because their business model does not allow anything special to be created that doesn’t involve copious amounts of RNG and gold sink.

Rauderi.8706:

ArchonWing.9480:

Anyhow, sign of goodwill! Instead of hoarding coins I just sold the ones in my bank at “sell instantly” instead of squeezing the last silver out of it. Hope whoever bought it can go get some more t6 mats or something

Probably silly of me to say, but I’ll say it anyway:

Thanks for your generosity.
I’m glad some people think beyond their own wallets.

Thanks.

I sorta screwed up as I forgot that you can’t set price below the highest buyer. Well you can but can’t do much with 21.

I should have just given a few away. Next time…. past the time gate.

My slow acquisition of Mystic Coins (20/mo, plus 20-30 more IF I can hit a Ley Line daily) is a bottleneck. I find myself hoarding OTHER materials as well, just because I don’t craft anything with them.

Take the Mystic weapon set, for example, the hammer in particular. Not too bad on the resources front! 30 Orichalcum Ore, 30 Ancient Wood Log, an Eldritch Scroll.

But then, 30 Mystic Coins. That’s a month of daily log-ins PLUS being able to hit a specific event at a specific time.

Then consider the fact that the weapon’s required as part of a collection achievement for Scrappers.

It’s easy to become cynical when you look at recipes like that (“Is this just a ploy to get me to log in every day?”). It’s also easy to hoard all your OTHER crafting materials; if you’re not using them with Mystic Coins for endgame skins, where else would you use them?

I know I would craft and forge a lot more items if Mystic Coins weren’t the bottleneck. I’d love to drain my stockpile of Orichalcum Ingots and Ancient Planks. I’d happily run the dungeons for Gifts. I’d rampage around the world making it a point to collect resources. I’d spend my gold on gems and gifts for friends.

Klaugh.7415:

I know I would craft and forge a lot more items if Mystic Coins weren’t the bottleneck. I’d love to drain my stockpile of Orichalcum Ingots and Ancient Planks. I’d happily run the dungeons for Gifts. I’d rampage around the world making it a point to collect resources. I’d spend my gold on gems and gifts for friends.

Same here, and I know there are other players out there who share this mentality, though who can say how many of us there are?

I just want a way to be able to work towards MC that isn’t reliant upon RNG or timegated to once a day on top of needing a large and competent zerg to acquire the coin (not to mention it being on a fixed schedule, so screw you if you can’t play during the 1 or 2 ley line events each day that even have a chance at being successful). Again, it doesn’t have to be efficient. It doesn’t have to be fast. It doesn’t have to be fun. But I want a way to do that. Simplest one would be an option at the end of reward tracks, either 2 clovers or 6 MC, but of course there could be other ways to go about it.

ArchonWing.9480

Apparently failed promises = lies.

1. John told me he’d buy me a soda.
2. John didn’t buy me a soda.
3. John said the world is round.
4. John is a liar because he didn’t buy me a soda.
5. Liars cannot be trusted.
6. Therefore, he is cannot be trusted when he says the world is round.
7. Therefore, the world is not round.

Well, this “logical deduction” has only a single wrong affirmation – and using this you send all the conclusion on a wrong direction. The wrong affirmation is: “John said the world is round.”

John is free to say everything. But the round planet thing affirmation belongs to Aristotel. This affirmation was confirmed and is generally accepted. Copernic and Galileo Galilei were the scientists bringing back the affirmation with the round world.

Now, in the third affirmation of your logical deduction replace John with Aristotel. And see what sense the conclusion “Therefore, he (Aristotel) cannot be trusted when he says the world is round” has.

OMG – the world is not round only because John didn’t buy you a soda?

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Cristalyan.5728:

2. The chronomancer will be the only class using Alacrity – false.

It was the first profession to use it; I don’t remember any promise that it would be the only one. Do you have a source?

Look at this: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-chronomancer-mesmers-elite-specialization/
The statement belongs to Robert Gee: “Specializing in chronomancy grants mesmers access, through traits and skills, to a new effect called alacrity. Alacrity functions as the inverse of chill by speeding up skill recharges rather than slowing them down. Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect, and chronomancers can share alacrity with allies in limited situations, making them an incredibly powerful ally to have in any party”

Illconceived Was Na.9781

You misremember. First, this is exactly a “play as you want” situation: do any content you like; sell what you don’t need; use the coin to pay for the stuff you really want, including more coins than ANet gives us for free.

If this is how you like to play, is OK. But, I like another play style: Do any content you want, sell what you don’t need, gather MC as any other crafting material without waiting ANet mercy in the form of few coins per months. You can sell items/materials and buy MC – is OK, this is how you want to play. I want to be able to gather MC without buying. Why do you think you have the right to play the game as you want and I don’t have this right?

Cristalyan.5728:

ArchonWing.9480

Apparently failed promises = lies.

1. John told me he’d buy me a soda.
2. John didn’t buy me a soda.
3. John said the world is round.
4. John is a liar because he didn’t buy me a soda.
5. Liars cannot be trusted.
6. Therefore, he is cannot be trusted when he says the world is round.
7. Therefore, the world is not round.

Well, this “logical deduction” has only a single wrong affirmation – and using this you send all the conclusion on a wrong direction. The wrong affirmation is: “John said the world is round.”

John is free to say everything. But the round planet thing affirmation belongs to Aristotel. This affirmation was confirmed and is generally accepted. Copernic and Galileo Galilei were the scientists bringing back the affirmation with the round world.

Now, in the third affirmation of your logical deduction replace John with Aristotel. And see what sense the conclusion “Therefore, he (Aristotel) cannot be trusted when he says the world is round” has.

OMG – the world is not round only because John didn’t buy you a soda?

Actually the replacement would lead to the logic that if Artistole promised me a soda and didn’t deliver, then he is also lying about the Earth being round. Point is you can’t discredit someone for something they did elsewhere. All this other stuff about scientists just shows there’s too much focus on the person making the statement.

Simply because Anet has failed to deliver legendary (at this point) and has made changes towards alacrity in no way proves that they’re lying about the state of the economy.

You’re confounding a deliberate change to the game (and yes, the game has changed over the years) with a statement about the present state of the game. If they had claimed that Chronos only had alacrity and it turns out they already put alacrity on another class on release in an undocumented fashion, then that would be lies. Going out a year later and decided to change it, is not actually a lie. By that logic anything that has been changed since the beginning of the game makes them liars.

And that is quite the serious accusation. Are you going to really make the claim that because they decided to change the paradigm for Chronos, and had a failed schedule for legendaries that they would be intentionally defrauding their customers in a virtual game economy that involves real money? Not exactly the most casual thing to toss around.

Cristalyan.5728:

Illconceived Was Na.9781

You misremember. First, this is exactly a “play as you want” situation: do any content you like; sell what you don’t need; use the coin to pay for the stuff you really want, including more coins than ANet gives us for free.

If this is how you like to play, is OK. But, I like another play style: Do any content you want, sell what you don’t need, gather MC as any other crafting material without waiting ANet mercy in the form of few coins per months. You can sell items/materials and buy MC – is OK, this is how you want to play. I want to be able to gather MC without buying. Why do you think you have the right to play the game as you want and I don’t have this right?

Noone is stoping you from playing how you want. But playing your way and getting every reward the way you want it was never in discussion.

Example, ascended equipment:

Can be aquired through raids, fractals, WvW, sPvP, crafting, specific open world events, achievements. Multiple ways to get it, some better than others but not locked into a specific area of the game.

Legendary items and mystic forge skins do not follow this rule as they are cosmetic equipment (legendary = ascended with fancy skin).

You have multiple dungeons with the same stat combinations but to get a specific skin you need the corresponding dungeon. But you are not locked into one dungeon for the stats, only the skin.

You can also get mystic coins with the ley anomaly events, daily mystic forger and rnd chance nightmare fractal challenge mode. Multiple ways to get them, not only login rewards or TP.

ArchonWing.9480

Actually the replacement would lead to the logic that if Artistole promised me a soda and didn’t deliver, then he is also lying about the Earth being round.

Yes, indeed. IF Aristotel promised you a soda, and didn’t deliver, he is indeed a liar. But do you want to tell us that indeed Aristotel, the greek philosopher/physicist/writer, dead over 2 000 years ago promised you a soda?

Miellyn.6847

Noone is stoping you from playing how you want. But playing your way and getting every reward the way you want it was never in discussion.
Example, ascended equipment:

Can be aquired through raids, fractals, WvW, sPvP, crafting, specific open world events, achievements. Multiple ways to get it, some better than others but not locked into a specific area of the game.

Legendary items and mystic forge skins do not follow this rule as they are cosmetic equipment (legendary = ascended with fancy skin).

You can also get mystic coins with the ley anomaly events, daily mystic forger and rnd chance nightmare fractal challenge mode. Multiple ways to get them, not only login rewards or TP.

From everything you wrote, I understand that for any item/material you mention exists at least one method to acquire it by playing the game and not by waiting for ANet to give it to you piece by piece, in small portions.

“But playing your way and getting every reward the way you want it was never in discussion.” – are you serious ? How do you know I don’t deserve to obtain what I want by playing the game? Who you are to decide what I deserve and what I don’t deserve to obtain? Or, with other words, how can you even think you can decide what I can get and what I cannot get in this game ?

I don’t ask a Legendary item. I don’t ask for Mystic Forge fancy skins (although some of these skins are required to complete the specialization collection – I don’t think you consider an exaggeration to want to complete your specialization collection? )

I ask for a crafting material to be released ingame without any absurd time gate. And with this we are at your last part of the statement – the highlighted one:

The mystic forger is 3-4 times per month. The Anomaly is once per day. Not all players are able to do the CM on Nightmare fractal. Even if they want, they cannot. And, as you can see, all the methods are time gated. What do you say about one of the T6 crafting mats being gated in this way? Vicious Claw for example? 20 per month. With the chance to have 50 if you farm a certain event – but only once per day? Or all the T6 materials gated in this way? You need only 30 for armor and 10, max 20 for 2-4 weapons. Then, according to your own logic you won’t need other materials anymore, because Legendary and MF skins are not mandatory.

Cristalyan.5728:

From everything you wrote, I understand that for any item/material you mention exists at least one method to acquire it by playing the game and not by waiting for ANet to give it to you piece by piece, in small portions.

Every method to aquire ascended armor and weapons is time gated.

“But playing your way and getting every reward the way you want it was never in discussion.” – are you serious ? How do you know I don’t deserve to obtain what I want by playing the game? Who you are to decide what I deserve and what I don’t deserve to obtain? Or, with other words, how can you even think you can decide what I can get and what I cannot get in this game ?

Your argument was the ArenaNet quote ‘Play how you want’. That never included all rewards for any content. There were and will be always rewards that are limited to certain content.

I don’t ask a Legendary item. I don’t ask for Mystic Forge fancy skins (although some of these skins are required to complete the specialization collection – I don’t think you consider an exaggeration to want to complete your specialization collection? )

I ask for a crafting material to be released ingame without any absurd time gate. And with this we are at your last part of the statement – the highlighted one:

Have a look what need mystic coins.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Recipe_sheets
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Other
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Equipment

Convinience and luxury skins.

The mystic forger is 3-4 times per month. The Anomaly is once per day. Not all players are able to do the CM on Nightmare fractal. Even if they want, they cannot. And, as you can see, all the methods are time gated. What do you say about one of the T6 crafting mats being gated in this way? Vicious Claw for example? 20 per month. With the chance to have 50 if you farm a certain event – but only once per day? Or all the T6 materials gated in this way? You need only 30 for armor and 10, max 20 for 2-4 weapons. Then, according to your own logic you won’t need other materials anymore, because Legendary and MF skins are not mandatory.

You can not compare T6 materials and mystic coins.
Mystic coins are sololy used for convinience items as armor boxes, feast recipes or luxury skins like the elementalist weapons, legendaries or shoulder skins.
T6 materials are used for all T6 and T7 crafting recipes and legendaries.

Mystic coins are supposed to be a premium crafting material. They were always timegated. Yes even in the past days of cheap mystic coins.

What actually changed is the number of coins used in legendaries (core legendaries ~230 coins, HoT legendaries ~480 coins), the number of players considering getting legendaries and specialisation skins (requires mystic forge skins).

You can actually earn more potenial coins per month than under the old system.
Old system:
- 20 coins monthly achievement
- 30 coins daily achievement
= 50 coins

Actual situation:
- 20 coins login rewards
- 30 coins ley anomaly
- mystic forger (3-4 times)
- daily 100 cm (1-3 coins, 3 chances, multiple coin rewards possible)
- chance from daily fractal chests
- chance from Fluctuating Mass (ascended material eaters)
= minimum 53 coins

@Miellyn.6847 – please look at what the OP initially wrote:

jonemirant.1653

Mystic Coin’s prices have risen from 10 silver to over 1 gold since early 2016.

Unlike other materials which can be grinded (even Amalgamated Gemstone can be grinded), Mystic Coin has a very limited supply, namely:

1. Chance for 5 to 50 from Mystic Clover crafting

2. Common reward from bosses of the Nightmare Fractal challenge mode

3. Rewarded once a day from completing the Defeat the Ley-Line Anomaly to disperse its destructive energy before it overloads event.

4. 20 received through every 28 day login rewards cycle; 2/4/6/8 on the first day of every week.

And let’s be honest:

No.1 – strictly a gamble and unreliable
No.2 – most people lack skills/time/AR to do it
No.3 – don’t even know wtf is that, and it only gives 1 per day!
No.4 – takes a whole year to accumulate a full stack of 250!

Every method you wrote about was already analyzed by OP. The point of this post is to find other methods. More reliable and a little bit faster. Fast enough to complete once the items needing MC in less than 23 years (the time you need now to do the same thing by accepting that playing the game brings no rewards for you and your playstyle (‘Play how you want’. That never included all rewards for any content.) and waiting for ANet to give you the coins).

Miellyn.6847

You can not compare T6 materials and mystic coins.
Mystic coins are sololy used for convinience items as armor boxes, feast recipes or luxury skins like the elementalist weapons, legendaries or shoulder skins.
T6 materials are used for all T6 and T7 crafting recipes and legendaries.

Mystic coins are supposed to be a premium crafting material.

You can very well compare MC with the T6 mats. Both are used to craft legendary weapons, both are used to craft exotic weapons, both are used to craft WvW auras etc.
I can say that the quantities of MG are larger than T6 in crafting. A full set of ascendant armor cost you 30 T6. Less than MC needed for one food: Pot of Artichoke Soup = 47 MC. The food is not Ascendant. It is Masterwork tier.

So, why MC should be “premium crafting material” and T6 not? Do you have any valid reason?