Guild Wars 2

alcopaul.2156:

But you didn’t got my point that the whole game didn’t depend on the cash shop.

But then that goes without having to be said? lol… good enough.

alcopaul.2156:

Horrorscope.7632:

alcopaul.2156:

Horrorscope.7632:

alcopaul.2156:

cash shop was not pay to win. aesthetic stuffs mostly and other perks such as character slots and make overs, unlock skills and heroes. the game didn’t depend on the cash shop.

Right, but it didn’t stop a cash shop from entering a game that wasn’t designed initially to having one. They had no problem taking the cash.

sure they had the cash shop. but good thing is that they didn’t change the fundamental mechanics of the game drastically within 3 months.

For sure, wasn’t really my point though.

But you didn’t got my point that the whole game didn’t depend on the cash shop.

Well with the drop rates how they are now, it definitely does depend on the cash shop in a big way. gems to gold….that’s what they wanted to increase right? That part is obvious whether nexon was involved or not, because everyone’s been hush hush and the one time they actually snuck in a reddit question for it, they said they’d investigate. Have we seen any fixes since with the two patches or any mentions of what they found since Chris answered that question? No and that’s no theory, the sheer lack of communication speaks volumes imo.

Still waiting on a loot fixing patch.

tigirius.9014:

alcopaul.2156:

Horrorscope.7632:

alcopaul.2156:

Horrorscope.7632:

alcopaul.2156:

cash shop was not pay to win. aesthetic stuffs mostly and other perks such as character slots and make overs, unlock skills and heroes. the game didn’t depend on the cash shop.

Right, but it didn’t stop a cash shop from entering a game that wasn’t designed initially to having one. They had no problem taking the cash.

sure they had the cash shop. but good thing is that they didn’t change the fundamental mechanics of the game drastically within 3 months.

For sure, wasn’t really my point though.

But you didn’t got my point that the whole game didn’t depend on the cash shop.

Well with the drop rates how they are now, it definitely does depend on the cash shop in a big way. gems to gold….that’s what they wanted to increase right? That part is obvious whether nexon was involved or not, because everyone’s been hush hush and the one time they actually snuck in a reddit question for it, they said they’d investigate. Have we seen any fixes since with the two patches or any mentions of what they found since Chris answered that question? No and that’s no theory, the sheer lack of communication speaks volumes imo.

Still waiting on a loot fixing patch.

i was referring to Guild Wars 1 not depending on its cash shop money wise or game play wise.

tigirius.9014:

Well with the drop rates how they are now, it definitely does depend on the cash shop in a big way

Hold on there partner. Are we getting who said what mixed? I thought the cash shop was talking about GW1 and how it didn’t have one, then did have one. No NCSoft, then NCSoft. It was very much an option in GW1 in most ways. Yes GW2, is getting that feeling that it’s jumping over there saying “Use Me! Use Me!” as rules/options in game are changing pointing you that way. NCSoft + Nexon?

Saw this coming when I realized that ANet’s ‘Monetization Producer’ is from Nexon.

(Look it up on LinkedIn)

Volomon.9147:

From what I understand from the investors meeting GW2 did 68% less than the projected profit. In other words GW2 is running in the red. Everything Anet does for the game is for investors. Not for players, they have to make the game profitable or there is no game.

I call bullkitten on that “GW2 did 68% less than the projected profit” number. (no profanity filter here, I really did type “kitten” in lieu of profanity).

I just listened to the entire NCSoft Q3-2012 Earning Release Conference Call. Here’s the highlights…

*Initial sales of Guild Wars 2 outperformed NCSofts expectations
*In-game item sales have successfully developed into a new business model
*Following launch, Guild Wars 2 sold 2 million copies in its first 2 weeks
*Across the board, GW2’s strong performance has exceeded NCSoft’s expectations. Not only with box sales, but in-game items have recorded steady sales
*They are planning to create a steady flow of content updates and new item development to ensure in-game item sales take route as a new business model
*Regarding NCSoft as a whole, the company expects 4th quarter to be their best in history

Nowhere in that investor’s conference call did NCSoft say that GW2 did not meet expectations. And that 68% number was nowhere to be found.

Listen for yourself: http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx#none

Sigh. This is a reference to NCSoft West, the NCSoft Seattle studio that created in 2008 in order to consolidate ArenaNet, NC Austin, NC Europe and NC Interactive, although ArenaNet was always kept apart from the others. The main idea behind the organization was to “westernize” NCSoft Korean produtcs, such as Aion, as well as help with marketing and etc of products in the West.

With the failure of everything other than GW1 and GW2 in this half of the world, NCSoftWest became considerably pointless. Since it was incredibly useless as far as marketing GW2, it doesn’t work well even in the role of a more local publisher. I’m surprised it had not been closed until now, in fact; it’s more dead weigth than anything else.

Does this mean ArenaNet won’t suffer due to the fall in NCSoft’s stocks? No idea. I’m somewhat troubled to see that some important GW2 creators have been silent for so long – where is the Lead Designer, Eric Flannum? Is he still at ArenaNet? However, even if NCSoft West were to close, this would not necessarily mean bad things for ArenaNet.

Manoa.5897:

Nowhere in that investor’s conference call did NCSoft say that GW2 did not meet expectations. And that 68% number was nowhere to be found.

As much as I don’t agree with the poster you were quoting, your summary of the conference call doesn’t explain why NCSoft’s stock options fell so quickly after the call. What were the bad news that made so many investors take their money and run for greener pastures?

Erasculio.2914:

Manoa.5897:

Nowhere in that investor’s conference call did NCSoft say that GW2 did not meet expectations. And that 68% number was nowhere to be found.

As much as I don’t agree with the poster you were quoting, your summary of the conference call doesn’t explain why NCSoft’s stock options fell so quickly after the call. What were the bad news that made so many investors take their money and run for greener pastures?

That’s not a summary about the entire conference call, but only those items related to Guild Wars 2 itself (I threw in that final point because it was at the very end of the call right after some GW2 stuff). The conference call was a LOT of positive about the “successful launches” of GW2 and Blade & Soul. Both have “firmly positioned themselves as main revenue drivers” for NCSoft. In the not-so-hot category was Aion (of course) and they went into some plans on how they intend to turn that game around.

I wouldn’t even be able to explain the drop in stock prices basing it off their Earnings Report and Investor’s call…the report and call were overall both quite upbeat. Perhaps investors are still skiddish about Aion’s continued poor performance? But what I can say is that if you’re looking for any bad news in that conference call related to GW2, you’re not going to find it.

EDIT: Did a bit more research to answer your question. Despite NCSoft doing well during the 3rd Quarter due to the successful launches of GW2 and B&S (and those launches exceeding NCSoft’s expectations), the company’s earnings fell below investor expectations. And investors forecast that NCSoft will be experiencing a slowdown after 4th Quarter. That’s the reason for the stock plunge. GW2’s and B&S’s launches exceeded NCSoft’s expectations. But investors expected more revenue last quarter due to these launches (Perhaps investors had some unrealistic expectations? ‘Cause NCSoft saw 50% jump in operating revenue and for some reason that just wasn’t enough for investors) and investors are skiddish that earnings will experience a slowdown next year. So the stock price suffered as a result.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49736295/Korea_Hot_Stocks_NCsoft_plunges_on_dim_earnings_forecasts

Remember that Investor expectations does not equal NCSoft’s expectations. GW2 exceeded NCSoft’s expectations and it’s among it’s top revenue generators. So GW2 is doing just fine

Erasculio.2914:

As much as I don’t agree with the poster you were quoting, your summary of the conference call doesn’t explain why NCSoft’s stock options fell so quickly after the call. What were the bad news that made so many investors take their money and run for greener pastures?

. . . maybe there was no bad news? Maybe it was fickle traders trying to get enough money to get something bigger?

Or maybe a bunch of investors read the forums, saw the whining and said “oh screw this” and dumped their shares?

“NCsoft is realigning internal publishing resources to better suit the needs of our game development studios,” i would like more info;

is NCsoft losing market share ? or are they just profit oriented? because when a realignment is in place people will lose their jobs

Ok since we have to spell things out to folks that like to assume instead of study what is said let’s spell it out.

per the article:

“NCsoft is realigning internal publishing resources to better suit the needs of our game development studios,” Davis told PC Gamer.

1) publishing resources – this is the printing of the boxes; burning the CDs, and packaging the product

2) to better suit the needs of our game development studios —-- who are the development studios?

Development studios

NCsoft is a developer and publisher of online computer games. NCsoft West is the arm of NCsoft with operating responsibility for North America, Europe, South America and Australia/New Zealand. It houses its publishing headquarters in Seattle, Washington.[citation needed]

The company currently owns development studios on the United States West Coast:

ArenaNet (Bellevue, Washington) – ArenaNet is the creator of Guild Wars, and its sequel, Guild Wars 2.[citation needed]
Carbine Studios (Aliso Viejo, California) – Carbine Studios was founded in 2005 and is working on WildStar.[citation needed]
Game Production Studio (Seattle, Washington) – The NCsoft Game Production Studio brings products from the NCsoft development teams in Seoul to the West, including Lineage, Lineage II, and Aion.[citation needed]

per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCsoft

This clearly states that Anet and Carbine Studios are “development studio”

plus per Manoa’a earlier posting in this thread:
Considering that GW2 is one of NCSoft’s top three earners (actually, the top earner last quarter), I personally doubt the realignment at NCSoft corporate has anything to do with GW2.

And from the NCSoft Q3 2012 earning report…

Strong growth was achieved in US and EU, fueled by successful launch of GW2.
B&S and GW2 have firmly positioned themselves as main revenue drivers for the company.

So wake up smell the coffee and stop panicing over nothing.

Anet is fine.
Guild Wars 2 is fine.

relax take a chill pill and learn how to read or take business classes

ArenaNet it’s owned by NcSoft, and NcSoft is owned by Nexon now.

Then NcSoft still have power in their Studio ArenaNet, that’s quite simple.

Not Sure if Nexon gives orders or it is NcSoft that decides what to do with ArenaNet.

And… Don’t we all know the games where NcSoft did huge mistakes that ruined them? (control the studios for make that X more profit thing and ignore the community, resulted in the games that are F2P now, sold, and closed).

They just closed (about to close?) the City of Heroes world.

Blade and Soul isn’t released to NA/EU yet.

I’d have thought when they closed down CoH franchise, that’d necessarily mean down-sizing a bit. I’m not sure how much activity Lineage2 has had in NA/EU since it dropped subscriptions.

The announcement makes sense to me.

NCsoft is getting rid of MMOs that aren’t generating them any cash.

I’m honestly still impressed that Lineage 2 has lasted so long. I played that game’s beta almost a decade ago and I still have very fond memories of it years after. Hell, Ragnarok Online is still kicking around.

Basically its just going to be Lineage 2, Aion, and Guild Wars 2. I’m not a huge fan of Aion because it was a giant gank and korean grind fest.

Developing MMO cost 100 of millions.
Ncsoft have atleast 3 now, Wildstar, Lineage Eternal and Lineage 3 are sill in development.
I guess NCsoft are being really carefull with their budget after watching a few big companies closed and some are in the red now.

kakipukul.4732:

Developing MMO cost 100 of millions.

Not all MMOs cost that much. SWTOR was rumored to be $200 million because the game was ENTIRELY voice acted with over 200,000 lines. SWTOR failed because of numerous underlying issues that Anet took serious during its development. Why do you think we have free transfer off the bat? SWTOR’s servers got jam packed at release, but then people quit and half the servers turned into ghost towns which caused a lot of people to quit. Also, the World PvP that was promised never came through and the World PvP you had made you lag completely out and that’s why you have culling in WvW.

If GW2 came out before SWTOR I honestly think it would have been much different. More or less everyone is tired of the WoW clones right now.

Raehvyn.4530:

Maybe that means they’re going to fire the crazy moderation brigade and actually leave some breathing room in the forums.

Yes, the primary importance of this news is the effect it may have on forum drama.

But that’s true of almost any news, really.

mulch.2586:

They just closed (about to close?) the City of Heroes world.

Blade and Soul isn’t released to NA/EU yet.

I’d have thought when they closed down CoH franchise, that’d necessarily mean down-sizing a bit. I’m not sure how much activity Lineage2 has had in NA/EU since it dropped subscriptions.

The announcement makes sense to me.

COH is already closed. It sunseted November 30th (last Friday). Paragon Studios (the development studio in charge of COH) was completely shut down and all their employees were laid off when NCSoft announced the sunset back in late August. The reasoning for the sunset was a “realignment of company focus and publishing support.” And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, NCSoft’s Seattle office was in charge of the game between the sunset announcement and the date they shut the servers down.

Again, today’s announcement that “NCsoft is realigning internal publishing resources to better suit the needs of our game development studios” only two business days after COH’s sunset (a sunset which was a result of realignment) does not surprise me one bit.

Did you guys all forget about Wildstar?

http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/

alcopaul.2156:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/08/nexon-invests-6-8m-in-ncsoft-becomes-largest-shareholder/

“largest shareholder”

it doesn’t matter if its 14 point something. Nexon is the “largest shareholder.”

It does matter. 86% of the shares are held by someone else. Frankly; I wouldn’t worry about pay to win, they actually want to make money.

Maldavos.4871:

alcopaul.2156:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/08/nexon-invests-6-8m-in-ncsoft-becomes-largest-shareholder/

“largest shareholder”

it doesn’t matter if its 14 point something. Nexon is the “largest shareholder.”

It does matter. 86% of the shares are held by someone else. Frankly; I wouldn’t worry about pay to win, they actually want to make money.

Your idea of a good way to make money and theirs clearly differs.

Since Nexon bought 15% of NCSOFT’s stock, the price per share dropped by 40%
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=036570.KS

Naturally, something will be done to address this. Nexon might not have total control over NCSOFT, but your largest shareholder, is still your largest shareholder. 15% is a critical amount of shares, as it allows Nexon to peek in all of NCSOFTS books, not just the quarterly reports. It is natural to assume that Nexon aims to take over NCSOFT in the space of 2-5 years, provided they like what they see.

There is also a strange rumor concerning a meeting between Nexon, NCSOFT and Valve with $680 million in the room. Valve was quick to deny that their company was for sale, however, they did not deny the meeting itself.

In any case Nexon does this to broaden their portfolio and revenue models. They won’t expand their customer base by synchronizing new acquisitions. If they just wanted more pay2win, they would just hire more programmers and crank out a new grindfest.

AnonEMouse.7932:

Raehvyn.4530:

You forgot Aion.

No I didn’t, Aion’s no longer run by NcSoft (or at least it isn’t in Europe as Gameforge runs it here).

I’m really really hoping this isn’t going to be another case of a games publisher completely screwing over a game for short term gain… much like EA has done to any of the software houses they’d brought, or even what Perfect World did to Star Trek Online.

Only Aion EU is not run by NCSoft.

Aion in Asia is still a major title, it might vry well be NCSofts biggest title there, bringing great revenue, however it failed on western market so miserably it went F2P and NCSoft decided nto to bother with running it cross-regions themselves.

Dante.1508:

Did you guys all forget about Wildstar?
http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/

Yeah.. it has potential and I was planning to play it because of one of the best trailer in the history of gaming I’ve ever seen (seriously, if they fail at game development, they should make animated movies…) but since it’s NCSoft, after GW2 fiasco of the year (personal oppinion) I am planning on sticking on to Secret World.

I have to say it..

Who gives a kitten..

Speculation is utterly pointless..

Volomon.9147:

alcopaul.2156:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

No, I mean . . . if NCsoft decided to shut down ArenaNet, do you think GuildWars 2 would actually continue? Talk about “pay2win” and other things, but . . .

This idea doesn’t help any of us GuildWars 2 players fans or not.

No. Because GW2 is owned by NCSoft. But if NCSoft sells GW2 to other publishers, then it will continue.

“©2010–2012 ArenaNet, Inc. and NC Interactive, Inc. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.”

Public companies are owned by there share holders, the people working there are elected by a board of trustees. Anyone with a majority share has the most votes, in a company. Effectively if someone can garner enough votes they can do literally anything. Your votes are per stock. As nexxon holds the majority share they have the most weight is where there talking about. Often those with the largest shares hold a seat. That means if Nexxon and a few other major share holders wanted to put a guy that works for Nexxon in NCsofts mists they could.

This is what they mean by Nexxon “owns” NCsoft, technically they don’t they just can push some weight around. It’s exaggerated for sure but you know what they mean. You know they can kind of yank the chain.

hmmm not really the most control a shareholder has is by getting to vote who will be serving on the board. 14% of the shares gives you 14% of the votes so it isnt even enough to put your own man in unless you can convince a lot of others to back you up! Even then decisions need to be taken by the board as a whole so installing 1 or 2 people even if at all posiable is not enough to dictate company policy! And even then the Sarbanes-Oxley act makes a lot of legal requirements that are intentionally designed at fighting the manipulation you’re suggeting such as the majority of directors have to be intedependant not associated with the business itself as well as the directors themselves are personally responsible for such manipulation.

So no I think its very unlikely that a 14% gives total control of ncsoft to nexon!

Honestly the first thought that went through my head was awesome maybe they’ll terminate the ones that decided on Ascended gear and vertical progression. It would really suck for the ones that had the right idea with the ideals from the manifest loosing their job because of the dimwits.

Then the good designers may be able to repair the damage by removing or nurfing the Ascendeds down to the Exotic level. Then they’d only have to figure out how to sell their game to people that have already left.

Maldavos.4871:

alcopaul.2156:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/08/nexon-invests-6-8m-in-ncsoft-becomes-largest-shareholder/

“largest shareholder”

it doesn’t matter if its 14 point something. Nexon is the “largest shareholder.”

It does matter. 86% of the shares are held by someone else. Frankly; I wouldn’t worry about pay to win, they actually want to make money.

no if that 86% are owned by 86 companies, then they have 1% each. so still nexon owns the majority at 14 point something still.

McSlappy.1372:

that decided on Ascended gear and vertical progression… removing or nurfing the Ascendeds down to the Exotic level.

This is a pipe dream that will never happen. Open ended VP is the future.

Keeping in mind that you have to think pessimistic to be realistic at this point in time, I imagine the effects of this realignment benefitting the selection of available items in the gem store more than anything else. Housing features as gem store purchase, boosters for specific kinds of loot, etc.

alcopaul.2156:

Maldavos.4871:

alcopaul.2156:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/08/nexon-invests-6-8m-in-ncsoft-becomes-largest-shareholder/

“largest shareholder”

it doesn’t matter if its 14 point something. Nexon is the “largest shareholder.”

It does matter. 86% of the shares are held by someone else. Frankly; I wouldn’t worry about pay to win, they actually want to make money.

no if that 86% are owned by 86 companies, then they have 1% each. so still nexon owns the majority at 14 point something still.

True, Nexon is their largest shareholder. But 14.7% is hardly a controlling interest. In fact, when the Nexon acquisition occurred, business journals indicated that it was a minority interest (i.e. a significant, but non-controlling interest in the company).

Dante.1508:

Did you guys all forget about Wildstar?

http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/

I have not forgotten City of Heroes. GW2 and the unmentionables who built it got a pass because, hey, GW1. Otherwise, <insert raspberry sound here>.

There’s a ton of baseless garbage here, specifically referring to NCsoft’s stock falling being caused by Nexon’s purchase of stock.

You guys do understand that stock prices are relative with the rest of the market sector, and the stock market as a whole right?

If the whole market drops, everyone who is part of that market also drops.

L2Stock market.