Guild Wars 2

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

I am up to date with the conversation. We are discussing your thoughts internally and continuing to work on the story steps. Once I have some more new I will update the thread.

Meanwhile I just want to communicate with certainty that NPE was not implemented in order to increase monetization from the BLT. It was designed for brand new players to the game. And it is for that reason that we are working with you to understand how to better refine the system.

Chris

Chris
I know you’ve probably read this already or are already aware about it, but please think about this.
Why has each new character to overcome the leveling process, when you only want to educate new players?
New players might need help with the game mechanics once, but not every time they create a new alt.

I know you want to make leveling more rewarding, but instead you’ve made it feel more like something that has to be done as quickly as possible to become somewhat potent. Leveling feels like work that has to be done before we get to the fun stuff.
Not only that, but you’re even empowering this mindset. It’s like:
“Oh you don’t like leveling? Let’s make leveling quicker, so you don’t have to deal with it that long.”
That’s an easy way to fix the unrewarding and boring leveling experience, but it’s definitely not the best one.

Asmodeus.5782:

Be careful what you wish for, eyestrain, for the catacombs might get nerfed once again. Right now the right amount of 80lvl players for this dungeon is 3. 2 will do too, most likely.

ughh god i shouldn’t have said anything PLEASE do not nerf more content T_T
If anyone wants to change AC please make it something other than “exterminate the rats in the basement”

(also story has been nerfed hard since the last time i played it, there was no need to know any enemy behaviors or mechanics since we could just stand on them and 1111.)

I have decided based upon my impression of this thread and recent comments from Chris that changes are closer to their actual design. I do not know everything in relation to the NPE as I have veteran goggles on. However I am in a unique position to have a wife that recently picked up the game.

Due to this I will revise my feedback I posted in in the following thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Learning-Curve/first#post4389552

Revamped Hints

These are extremely useful. However I am unsure about their effectiveness. Your testing should have proved if it is true or not.

Gating of Weapon skills

I understand why this was done to reward the player. I think that gated systems are not vary rewarding they always feel restrictive. Nor do I find it educational. I do not feel that it teaches me the profession. I was leveling up a elementalist from level 1 in the new system I understand the mechanics of fire well. The reason behind this was that I was required to go a entire level focusing on that single skill.

However for the remaining elements of the elements I don’t understand them well at all and find myself going back to fire frequently. I have not had the focus with the other elements like I have on fire.

I think the old weapon unlock system excelled in this area. On my thief I learned what the skills did as I unlocked them. However they unlocked a bit too fast if I was not paying attention. Perhaps return the old unlock system and slow down the progress of unlocking them.

I do think this may annoy some veteran players I am not sure how to satisfy them. Perhaps once you have unlocked a weapon for a profession on the account it is unlocked for the entire account for that profession.

Frequency of events
I think the events in the beginning areas need to be increased a tad. This is to keep refine the pacing in the starting areas.

Bundles and changes to starter areas
I understand why it was done. You don’t want to front-load a player who is just learning their skills. However now some of them are quite silly or feel toyish. Entertaining a cow, fumbling with a toolbox. Also some interesting ones were outright removed. Protogy and Golem chess in Metrica province. I feel that the cows and repairing golems should actually be collector heart events. And the events that were removed should be re-added elsewhere. Please add the flavor back to the beginning areas.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

I am up to date with the conversation. We are discussing your thoughts internally and continuing to work on the story steps. Once I have some more new I will update the thread.

Meanwhile I just want to communicate with certainty that NPE was not implemented in order to increase monetization from the BLT. It was designed for brand new players to the game. And it is for that reason that we are working with you to understand how to better refine the system.

Chris

Chris
I know you’ve probably read this already or are already aware about it, but please think about this.
Why has each new character to overcome the leveling process, when you only want to educate new players?
New players might need help with the game mechanics once, but not every time they create a new alt.

I think every character made once a character hits level 80 should get a free level 20 scroll, and every level 20 scroll should instead turn into a random mini.

In the case of people who have hit 1/2 years of age, allow them to trade their scroll for a miniature box of some sort. For people that already used their scrolls, well – at least they got use out of them. Cut losses and let it ride.

P.S. The NPC that will trade scrolls for minis will look up character age, so someone couldn’t keep trading in scrolls by making new characters.

I really want to stress my support of the NPE system only going into effect for the first character a player creates. There is no reason why a player with a lvl 80 character that creates a new character should have to use this new system.

I don’t know if it is at all possible to revert to such a system, but that is what I would want as a player.

hannah mee.7925:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

I am up to date with the conversation. We are discussing your thoughts internally and continuing to work on the story steps. Once I have some more new I will update the thread.

Meanwhile I just want to communicate with certainty that NPE was not implemented in order to increase monetization from the BLT. It was designed for brand new players to the game. And it is for that reason that we are working with you to understand how to better refine the system.

Chris

Chris
I know you’ve probably read this already or are already aware about it, but please think about this.
Why has each new character to overcome the leveling process, when you only want to educate new players?
New players might need help with the game mechanics once, but not every time they create a new alt.

I think every character made once a character hits level 80 should get a free level 20 scroll, and every level 20 scroll should instead turn into a random mini.

In the case of people who have hit 1/2 years of age, allow them to trade their scroll for a miniature box of some sort. For people that already used their scrolls, well – at least they got use out of them. Cut losses and let it ride.

P.S. The NPC that will trade scrolls for minis will look up character age, so someone couldn’t keep trading in scrolls by making new characters.

Your idea deals with the problem that many players don’t enjoy leveling. It gives them the opportunity to simply “skip” this part. I think that this is the wrong approach. People should be able to enjoy leveling. So first we have to determine why players don’t like leveling. The most obvious answer would be that it’s tedious and not rewarding.
Players try to make gold to get the things they want. Doing the personal story, or completing maps isn’t very rewarding. So I think that the reward porcess should be altered instead of giving players the opportunity to skip all the boring or unsatisfying stuff.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

I am up to date with the conversation. We are discussing your thoughts internally and continuing to work on the story steps. Once I have some more new I will update the thread.

Meanwhile I just want to communicate with certainty that NPE was not implemented in order to increase monetization from the BLT. It was designed for brand new players to the game. And it is for that reason that we are working with you to understand how to better refine the system.

Chris

I will grant that nothing in the NPE seemed to be about the BLT. But is this also a true statement for Traits?

Just something that has been building up steam in my head. What about using a ‘soft-lock’ system instead of level gate hard locks?

What I mean is, instead of skill challenges being unlocked at level ## automatically, they would only be unlocked at this level if a player hasn’t opened them up already by completing a skill challenge.

If a player completes a skill challenge before level ## everything that would normally occur (popups, info, unlocks etc) occurs once complete. If a player doesn’t complete a skill challenge before level ##, then at level ## everything pops up / unlocks.

The same type of soft-lock could be used for vista’s, point of interest, traits, basically everything.

sirian.4981:

I am up to date with the conversation. We are discussing your thoughts internally and continuing to work on the story steps. Once I have some more new I will update the thread.

Meanwhile I just want to communicate with certainty that NPE was not implemented in order to increase monetization from the BLT. It was designed for brand new players to the game. And it is for that reason that we are working with you to understand how to better refine the system.

Chris

Hey there, thanks for the above. Unfortunately, although I am an extremely satisfied player, I do believe that there are many pitfalls that can occur to a game that has our model. I point out places where I think some of these might be occurring and the business reasoning behind them. If nothing comes of them, great! However, if we see one step towards something, then another step falls in line, it becomes harder to ignore. I also understand that things change and that lofty goals have to be changed in the face of reality.

However, some goal shifts, although necessary for a successful continuation of a venture, will cause shifting loyalties to a brand. The more basic the goal, the larger the shift. The discussion I’ve been involved with, dealing with monetization practices in the industry, is one shift that would be so different to the basic design philosophy of this game to actually break it for many that have been with you since the beginning…and that players should be aware of its existence.

I mean no harm in the discussion and am very pleased to hear your affirmation above dealing with the NPE.

It would be extremely calming for the community to hear you say the same thing about the trait system.

Thank you for all the time you put into the game, our community, and these forums. Your family is extremely supportive and I personally thank them for allowing you to take the time with us.

Bundles

Would it be possible to make it so that some bundles, but not all, would get dropped automatically when you enter combat? I think this might be useful for low level bundles in areas (like Diel’s Farm) where combat is uncommon. In this way, if you are feeding cows and the bandits attack and start hitting you, you would automatically drop the cow food, allowing you to fight back.

I believe that some players may have been confused by this, and the change would make sense for non-combat bundles in low level areas. It would also help if a large tutorial popped up for every low level bundle that points at the “weapon swap arrow” and lets you know to press it or the “~” key in order to drop the bundle and return to your normal toolbar. It would also be a decent idea to replace all “empty” slots in a bundle with the “drop bundle” options, so if a bundle only has 1-2 moves of its own, then slots 3-5 would be to drop it.

With those changes, I can’t imagine anyone reasonably complaining about bundles.

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

Ohoni.6057:

Bundles

Would it be possible to make it so that some bundles, but not all, would get dropped automatically when you enter combat? I think this might be useful for low level bundles in areas (like Diel’s Farm) where combat is uncommon. In this way, if you are feeding cows and the bandits attack and start hitting you, you would automatically drop the cow food, allowing you to fight back.

I believe that some players may have been confused by this, and the change would make sense for non-combat bundles in low level areas. It would also help if a large tutorial popped up for every low level bundle that points at the “weapon swap arrow” and lets you know to press it or the “~” key in order to drop the bundle and return to your normal toolbar. It would also be a decent idea to replace all “empty” slots in a bundle with the “drop bundle” options, so if a bundle only has 1-2 moves of its own, then slots 3-5 would be to drop it.

With those changes, I can’t imagine anyone reasonably complaining about bundles.

Pretty good analysis on this.

Also, can I get my help archive back?

anzenketh.3759:

I have decided based upon my impression of this thread and recent comments from Chris that changes are closer to their actual design. I do not know everything in relation to the NPE as I have veteran goggles on. However I am in a unique position to have a wife that recently picked up the game.

Due to this I will revise my feedback I posted in in the following thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Learning-Curve/first#post4389552

Revamped Hints

These are extremely useful. However I am unsure about their effectiveness. Your testing should have proved if it is true or not.

Gating of Weapon skills

I understand why this was done to reward the player. I think that gated systems are not vary rewarding they always feel restrictive. Nor do I find it educational. I do not feel that it teaches me the profession. I was leveling up a sentimentalist from level 1 in the new system I understand the mechanics of fire well. The reason behind this was that I was required to go a entire level focusing on that single skill.

However for the remaining elements of the elements I don’t understand them well at all and find myself going back to fire frequently. I have not had the focus with the other elements like I have on fire.

I think the old weapon unlock system excelled in this area. On my thief I learned what the skills did as I unlocked them. However they unlocked a bit too fast if I was not paying attention. Perhaps return the old unlock system and slow down the progress of unlocking them.

I do think this may annoy some veteran players I am not sure how to satisfy them. Perhaps once you have unlocked a weapon for a profession on the account it is unlocked for the entire account for that profession.

Frequency of events
I think the events in the begening areas need to be increased a tad. This is to keep refine the pacing in the starting areas.

Bundles and changes to starter areas
I understand why it was done. You don’t want to front-load a player who is just learning their skills. However now some of them are quite silly or feel toyish. Entertaining a cow, fumbling with a toolbox. Also some interesting ones were outright removed. Protogy and Golem chess in Metrica province. I feel that the cows and repairing golems should actually be collector heart events. And the events that were removed should be re-added elsewhere. Please add the flavor back to the beginning areas.

I agree with this post a lot. I don’t know if you guys read the thread I posted with my other half and I’s thoughts about the NPE when we made our new character duo but my biggest problem was the Utility/Elite Skill gating. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/NPE-Feedback-and-GATLING-FISTS/first#post4414100
for reference
Weapon skill gating is irritating and extremely unfair to certain weapon skills for some professions (Like Staff Mesmer, as I mentioned).

I saw a post the outlined changes or bug fixes (Was it actually a bug? What did you guys think to yourselves when you saw that the skills unlocked so late? No malice intended, I’m genuinely curious) to when Utility Skills and Elite skills level unlocks and that seems good enough to me. I overall liked the rest of the changes, as I stated in my thread. Except the golems killing us instantly haha.

I don’t like that you guys removed some of the fun ways to do the hearts, I was saddened to see the golem chess gone. I instead opted to just cause the golem to break itself and revive it repeatedly to get it over with quickly, since the interesting avenue was gone the path of least resistance seemed the next option.

I’m a bit saddened to see people in here trying to paint everyone who didn’t like certain aspects of the NPE as “trolling” or something similar. It’s a really low thing to do.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

I will grant the guild bank changes all seem to have hte purpose of pushing people to buying bank/bag slots with gems.

Can we fix having to unlock the traits? That part of the system sucks, or at least make it that if I did the trait unlock on a toon, I don’t have to do the whole process all over again on the alts.

Aidenwolf.5964:

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

Sure, they sold airship passes. And I had fourteen drop while I was doing the events. So . . .? I suppose they opened the Crown Pavilion in order to sell Royal Terrace passes too . . .

Also, the major services aren’t spread out further than they used to be, from what I looked at. The crafting area is actually laid out a little better, with the Mystic Forge and Black Lion merchants/bankers being closer.

The contested waypoint is, to note, destroyed. I suspect that’s part of the LW work, and will be replaced by whatever new tech Taimi developed to make Waypoints less appealing to Elder Dragons.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

You’re going to need to explain how DR was done for monetization when it was in Guild Wars 1 also.

Here’s a couple other things for you guys to keep in mind:

With your weapon abilities being locked out it makes it seem like there are “better” classes to start out as. Letting starting players be able to do whatever they want and feel useful is important. Again, compare being a Warrior with a rifle early in to being a Mesmer with a staff early on. Or maybe being a Thief with a sword versus being a Ranger with a sword starting out.

It’s a lot more fun to be able to play around with weapon combos early in and feel that customization and say “Look at all these cool abilities I can do”

You get one chance to impress new players. It’s better for them to be blown away than for them to feel underwhelmed in my opinion.

Also, please be a little more lenient on Warrior adrenaline. It’s really frustrating to feel like it’s better to run into combat at half health than to risk your adrenaline draining.

Edit2: I get that some people feel like it isn’t helpful for the same people to continue wanting to make their points, but honestly guys to me it smacks of “Yeah we heard you so just shut up about it okay?”

HHR LostProphet.4801:

This idea deals with the problem that many players don’t enjoy leveling. It gives them the opportunity to simply “skip” this part. I think that this is the wrong approach. People should be able to enjoy leveling. So first we have to determine why players don’t like leveling. The most obvious answer would be that it’s tedious and not rewarding.
Players try to make gold to get the things they want. Doing the personal story, or completing maps isn’t very rewarding. So I think that the reward porcess should be altered instead of giving players the opportunity to skip all the boring or unsatisfying stuff.

I am behind this 100%. As much as I knock WoW anymore, I will give them one thing – every time I made a new character, I enjoyed the experience so much of just going out and fudging around until my character eventually hit max level.

I like the leveling in GW2 a lot, but there are some points where it just gets really tedious. I would love to see that change, and people to be able to enjoy the leveling experience the whole way through.

sirian.4981:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

I will grant the guild bank changes all seem to have hte purpose of pushing people to buying bank/bag slots with gems.

If this was no so very sad it would be funny. He just flat out told you your conspiracy does not stand up. Good thing about conspiracies is that people who believe them never ever need to change their minds.

Yargesh.4965:

sirian.4981:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

I will grant the guild bank changes all seem to have hte purpose of pushing people to buying bank/bag slots with gems.

If this was no so very sad it would be funny. He just flat out told you your conspiracy does not stand up. Good thing about conspiracies is that people who believe them never ever need to change their minds.

Even when they disagree they admit something smells in Chinatown

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yargesh.4965:

sirian.4981:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

I will grant the guild bank changes all seem to have hte purpose of pushing people to buying bank/bag slots with gems.

If this was no so very sad it would be funny. He just flat out told you your conspiracy does not stand up. Good thing about conspiracies is that people who believe them never ever need to change their minds.

Even when they disagree they admit something smells in Chinatown

The he I was referring to is Chris Whiteside.

Yargesh.4965:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yargesh.4965:

sirian.4981:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

I will grant the guild bank changes all seem to have hte purpose of pushing people to buying bank/bag slots with gems.

If this was no so very sad it would be funny. He just flat out told you your conspiracy does not stand up. Good thing about conspiracies is that people who believe them never ever need to change their minds.

Even when they disagree they admit something smells in Chinatown

The he I was referring to is Chris Whiteside.

Yes, but you’re forgetting something. The assumption there is a conspiracy comes along with the need for those involved in keeping it to lie or spread disinformation to maintain that conspiracy. In other words, any denial is only supporting evidence there is a conspiracy, by the logic of the conspiracy existing in the first place.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Meanwhile I just want to communicate with certainty that NPE was not implemented in order to increase monetization from the BLT.

And the trait system? Can you say the same thing about it?

It’s also a distraction from worthwhile discussion. What’s important is talking about the gameplay itself.

I can only speak for myself, but I’m much more interested in how people feel about the changes to when Utility skills are gained (Which seems great now if the notes I read are correct, makes me happy how about others?) and what the devs think about Adrenaline draining super-quick.

Our alts have passed the point where the NPE matters anymore, so all I can do is post about the impressions I got during it.

Roybe.5896:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

duckideva.6358:

Something has been tickling the back of my mind since the April update, which became clear focus after the 9/9 update.

It is my contention that Anet has brought economic behaviorists on board, and has attempted to overlay the reward/punishment monetization/skinner-box system of F2P games on top of the existing infrastructure, and these current changes are a precursor to skills and traits being available on the gem store.

Before I get elbows deep, it’s only fair to mention that I studied this type of industrial psychology while pursuing my PhD in bioethics, ergo I may be seeing shadows in the cave, and assigning malice to actions that may just be incompetence. Also fair to point out that I’m on the board of a software publisher, (one that shares no market space with Anet), and we constantly get pitched by monetization “gurus” who talk about their methodologies, so I have more than a passing acquaintance with this type of game theory.

Monetization and Skinner-Boxing of games can range from things like Zynga’s CEO’s theory of “fun-pain”, which we don’t see much of in GW2, to premium currencies, which all MMOs have always had, to pay-to-win like Korean grinders, but the most powerful of all the skinner-box techniques is Reward Removal. (See Puzzle and Dragon as an example of a masterfully designed money extraction skinner box. )

Research has shown that humans like getting rewards, but they hate losing what they already have much more than they value getting the reward. The effect is more powerful the longer the person has had the reward.

Traits are an example of this playing out; Players who have had the game for long enough that they have leveled a character in the original system valued the trait system. Traits were a reward for playing the character. Therefore, when traits were “removed”, i.e., placed behind artificial barriers, players felt “robbed”, “cheated”, and as though “Anet hates it’s players”. (To borrow phrases I’ve seen lobbed about the forums.) Hiding the story quest until lvl 10 is another example, as is removing all the fun stuff to do in the starter zones.

To effectively monetize your playerbase with this technique, you have to tell the player they have earned something, and then later tell them that they did not. The longer you allow the player to have the reward before you take it away, the more powerful the effect becomes.

If, for example, traits went on sale in the gem store today, we all know that people would buy them. Sure, people would complain, and some people would quit the game, but the vast majority of people who are not going to do 65 different things to unlock their traits would just buy them, or ignore traits all the way around except for accidental unlocks.

Therefore, my premise is that the reason 400 response threads about traits have been completely ignored, while pushback on level gating skills resulted in changes, is that traits are going to be a monetized part of the game.

Anything that is a huge gold sink is already monetized.

Confusing faucets and sinks for the economy do not equate to monetization, unless you are making the point of purchasing gems to convert to gold, which IS monetization. The 300 gold cost of Commander tags MIGHT be monetization IF the ultimate outcome is that people forego the opportunity cost of time in lieu of gems. I’ll predict that this won’t be the case, since Commander Tags are not useful to most people and that 300 gold should only take about 40 hours of game time to accrue, if you maximize your mat farming/champ runs properly.

I was making that point. Anytime there’s something really expensive in game, there will inevitably be a number of people who, maybe due to work or IRL obligations, would rather just pull out the credit card. There is a reason the new TP now says “GET MOAR GOLD” in big letters. It’s convenient for some.

Edit: Let me just add I like profit. Profit is good. I want(ed) ANET to profit. It’s especially nice when ANET can profit on things that I don’t feel obligated to spend money on.

The changes to Commander tag prices seemed good to me to be honest. It raised the threshold so that people already playing the game for some time can use the tag, they’re experienced players at least. I tend to get frustrated with Commanders when they aren’t doing anything useful (and leave their tag up, which clutters up my minimap), or when an entire map of players swarm around one Commander leaving people doing other Group Events understaffed so to speak.

You know what would be cool? A UI option to disable Commander Tags.

Gaile Gray.6029:

The devs have been reviewing your feedback on the New Player Experience. While some bug fixes have already been made, the team will be making other updates in the future to address:

• Plot holes and story inconsistencies that may have been introduced with story realignment
• Replacing the missing profession mechanics UI for the Ranger and Mesmer professions
• Investigating issues that prevent players from retaining some skills (heal, utility, and elite) that they had previously unlocked
• Addressing an issue with bundles that prematurely unlocked utility and elite skills

Other aspects of the NPE are being examined, and your constructive feedback is welcome and appreciated.

There hasn’t been much reference to the ‘Plot holes and story inconsistencies that may have been introduced with story realignment’ point that you mentioned at the beginning of the thread Gaile. Apologies but I was wondering what you meant by that (it was very vague in my opinion).

For example some players have been wondering what happened to the ‘Fear Arc’ that was in the personal story, why it has been cut and the consequences it has led to (confusing storyline in the last chapters).

Now many players haven’t always expressed their ‘love’ for the Personal Story but many players feel that cutting out this portion of the storyline has not only made it confusing to new players but also has led to a loss of a very important part of the personal story, something which new players will never experience.

Here is the forum in question: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Tonn-Apatia-cut-from-Personal-Story

The plot holes and story inconsistencies is not a major issue compared to the others on this thread but many players and I want to know what exactly Arenanet is going to do about it, but also what are your thoughts about it as well.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

In a way we do have to read tea leaves. However, in business, you do have one constant. Companies will look for ways to increase profits. There are numbers of ways to do this. Obviously is increase your customer base. This is what is currently happening. By increasing poor retention numbers in the recent new player update, they can on board more players successfully, they have better chances for more ‘box sales’ as well as sales through the BLT. This is logical.

Other changes, commander tags with saleable colors, the trait system, etc. bring up issues that should make people stop and think. Although the tags were changed, the initial offering WAS the plan. This was interesting because there was cover for the company in that the players wanted this, it came directly from the CDI, i.e. a way to delineate commanders in WvW easily. The increased gold cost for the base tag (some consider a monetization issue since gold=gems=real money) with even more gold being spent on the different colors went against the spirit of the request, a minor change to the system to allow a better QoL in game, particularly for a time sensitive part of the game, mainly WvW. I had no problem with the increased overall cost of the tag, being it went from soulbound to account bound. I was not happy about the extra gold required for the colors themselves. As the overall cost came close to require a BLT purchase rather than in game play, since there is more immediacy to WvW than having one for PvE.

The traits are a different issue, dealing with opportunity costs. By changing the way the players obtain their traits, hunting for all of them, the opportunity costs are tipping towards cash purchase rather than in game play. This is a major departure from one of the base goals of this game, i.e. no one should have to do unnecessary grind to access content. Is this the same as grinding for raid quality gear? No. Nowhere near as bad. However, is it similar to be required to complete a map for access to one trait? Yes. Thus the discussion we’ve been having today. By giving someone access to something and then removing it, you are adjusting a players evaluation of the opportunity costs involved. By having something and then losing it, you are made aware of how valuable something is. By adding the ability to buy back that item with either in game gold or direct sales of gems, the game maker is expecting that this ‘new realization’ will bring a sale. It’s a poor way to make a sale, but it does work.

As I stated earlier, I enjoy this game. I am also a person with a degree in business. I am fascinated with the different aspects of monetization and the psychology, merchandising, and morality dealing with it. I am trying to avoid making illogical claims about the path the game is taking, as much as I am trying to be a reasonable person understanding what will be expected of me as a player to provide some level of support to the game. In these discussions I am also hoping that the devs can see why we are concerned and how their actions could be misconstrued in level headed conversations, let alone when those around are screaming that the ‘End of the world is nigh!’

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yargesh.4965:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yargesh.4965:

sirian.4981:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

I will grant the guild bank changes all seem to have hte purpose of pushing people to buying bank/bag slots with gems.

If this was no so very sad it would be funny. He just flat out told you your conspiracy does not stand up. Good thing about conspiracies is that people who believe them never ever need to change their minds.

Even when they disagree they admit something smells in Chinatown

The he I was referring to is Chris Whiteside.

Yes, but you’re forgetting something. The assumption there is a conspiracy comes along with the need for those involved in keeping it to lie or spread disinformation to maintain that conspiracy. In other words, any denial is only supporting evidence there is a conspiracy, by the logic of the conspiracy existing in the first place.

This is just too bizarre to contemplate in a legal state of mind.

Sadly, Roybe, I’m an engineer by education, a customer service rep by employment, and a writer by hobby, not someone who does much with psychology or economics. So I do have a different . . . limited . . . perspective on the details.

The way I see it about the Commander tags is how they anticipated people getting them in the first place – either through working the gold or getting donations from people who really and truly wanted them to get it. If a good commander said “Hey guys, if you want to donate whatever you can spare I’ll start saving it up for a new color tag so I can differentiate myself better” . . . I think they’d get roughly half the value in donations. But then, I also watch good commanders get siege donated to them so . . . I expect the price was to discourage the same sort of thing we saw increasingly: vanity Commander tags. “I have it because I have money, and don’t really use it”.

I think the Trait Mastery (that is what they are, I had to stop and check) overhaul was not malicious or even greed in primary intent. I think they left the “buy it” option for people who didn’t want to spend time going out to do the tasks in question (especially since I recall that was something also asked for – an “opt out” of sorts from needing to go chase them down – another thing which GW1 had in their cash store from what I recall).

I think with the Trait Mastery . . . they didn’t do enough thought and polish on what events should be chosen. Which is how we get “Gates of Arah” and “Overgrown Grub” in the mix of things to do.

I do not think it was a nefarious and intentional psychological ploy on the part of the developers who made the system. (However, higher than that, I can’t begin to guess.) I think it is something which wasn’t thought out well enough, which is . . . as I say repeatedly and unfortunately . . . rather par for the course with the developers.

Good ideas, interesting vision . . . questionable implementation.

Yargesh.4965:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yargesh.4965:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yargesh.4965:

sirian.4981:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

I will grant the guild bank changes all seem to have hte purpose of pushing people to buying bank/bag slots with gems.

If this was no so very sad it would be funny. He just flat out told you your conspiracy does not stand up. Good thing about conspiracies is that people who believe them never ever need to change their minds.

Even when they disagree they admit something smells in Chinatown

The he I was referring to is Chris Whiteside.

Yes, but you’re forgetting something. The assumption there is a conspiracy comes along with the need for those involved in keeping it to lie or spread disinformation to maintain that conspiracy. In other words, any denial is only supporting evidence there is a conspiracy, by the logic of the conspiracy existing in the first place.

This is just too bizarre to contemplate in a legal state of mind.

No, it’s working backwards through the logic of how a conspiracy needs to operate. It’s also why most conspiracy theories start to unravel when you look too closely – there’s too many people who would have to be involved and not one who would crack and unmask it with solid and supportive proof rather than innuendo and “take my word for it”.

Not saying it’s impossible, merely . . . implausible.

Yargesh.4965:

sirian.4981:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

I will grant the guild bank changes all seem to have hte purpose of pushing people to buying bank/bag slots with gems.

If this was no so very sad it would be funny. He just flat out told you your conspiracy does not stand up. Good thing about conspiracies is that people who believe them never ever need to change their minds.

I don’t think the leveling changes are trying to get people to buy gems, but the guild bank changes obviously are. There is no other reason for the repeated nerfs to accessing your guildbank.

Edit: I dont necessarily disagree with the guild bank nerfs either. Personal guild banks are too powerful for how cheap they are.

sirian.4981:

Edit: I dont necessarily disagree with the guild bank nerfs either. Personal guild banks are too powerful for how cheap they are.

My issue with this is that it isn’t ONLY affecting personal guilds, it’s affecting regular guilds too. I see no reason to go out of their way to inconvenience legitimate guilds just to hurt personal guilds. Having to go out of my way to run to my guild vault to grab something like buff food, whether it’s a personal guild or a “real” guild, is still incredibly inconvenient.

Roybe.5896:

It’s a gold sink, not a revenue stream. Revenue stream implies that there is some level of profit. Trading gems for gold is an appeasement tactic that costs the company profits because the exchanger did not supply the business real money.

This is a problem for this model because, I believe, more people play the ‘avoid to pay’ game, more than they offer money to buy in game gold. To maintain profitability, the ‘avoid to pay’ game necessarily has to become painful enough to warrant the exchange for opportunity cost, i.e. make it so long to reach your goal that it’s less painful to pay 2-6 hours of paid labor than the 50 hours of gameplay to make your goal. By increasing uncertainty in the availability of products in the gem store, you also increase this pressure.

My problem right now is that there is no way to gauge how far this monetization plan will go. This is one reason why the devs have to hold their cards so close to the vest…remembering it might not be their choice to do this, NCSoft is running the show. If they are moving down this path, and they tip their hand to soon, the ‘smart money’ will abandon ship immediately.

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

They need people to want to buy gold with money
this is actually not necessarilly true.
“IF” they have a good exchange rate system going.

I know most people wont believe me, but the way it actually breaks down, is that it doesnt make much difference whether gold to real money is 10 to 1 or 1 to 1.
As long as their exist people who sell gold, and people who buy gold. Because the real money comes from players desire for gem store items.

Essentially, whether you buy gem store items with real cash, or you buy it with gold, at the end of the day anet still gets paid.

Point is, the price of gold has more to do with how much gold selling players value their time, versus gold buying players value their time, in conjunction with how valuable the gem store items seem.

Anet profits as long as people want to buy stuff with gems, irregardless to how hard they have to work for it.

Now this doesnt mean monetization has no effect, it just means the primary concern is getting people to want to buy gems, not getting people to not want to trade gold. I actually think they would make more money if the rate was lower, and the value of gold and gems was more balanced.

problem is, doing that means creating really effective, or highly desirable gold valued items. Which in general would probably annoy people as well, and make the game feel more farmy.

Anyhow, i doubt these changes are tied to the gem store. I know companies make descions based in part by monetary concerns, but you dont really have to look deeply to see that keeping more players playing would help generate income.

problem is, they cannot do that at the expense of the existing resource of players, as well, i dont truely feel these systems will help retain players.

I think what they should have done, was create a new mini area tutorial/adventure for levels 1-10, that are skippable by veteran players, that act as a prequel. This short area could be a real starter/tutorial area for the basics.

Now, as for progression/direction, that is a different beast, they kind of connected the two, but i dont think they are should be connected in this way.

phys.7689:

I think what they should have done, was create a new mini area tutorial/adventure for levels 1-10, that are skippable by veteran players, that act as a prequel. This short area could be a real starter/tutorial area for the basics.

While it would be a really good idea, based o their current content release rate they simple don’t have the resources to do that.

Its much cheaper to take stuff away than it is to add it in.

sirian.4981:

phys.7689:

I think what they should have done, was create a new mini area tutorial/adventure for levels 1-10, that are skippable by veteran players, that act as a prequel. This short area could be a real starter/tutorial area for the basics.

While it would be a really good idea, based o their current content release rate they simple don’t have the resources to do that.

Its much cheaper to take stuff away than it is to add it in.

its true that this is cheaper, but is it effective? I dont really feel these changes will retain more players overall, because while it is easier, it is less engaging. You may have gained some players who quit because stuff was happening too fast, but you lost a bunch of players who felt that it was too slow/boring.

The best thing they could do is create a really exciting and interesting tutorial area. This may be hard to design, but if they can, it will pay for itself by greatly increasing the retention rate, by teaching people well, and entertaining them at the same time.

I guess the big problem would be, if this was a super good interesting design, there may be some drop off/dissapointment when people get to the main world, if its less interesting.

But yeah, its probably too late now, they spent a whole bunch of time/resources on this already, to do it again is probably not worth the cost in what else they could be doing.

but its something to think about for next time.

The question that needs answering, is when arena net did the player testing for the new player experience, what audience was targeted?

What should have been done, is to determine what types of players spend money on guild wars 2, and a test audience of that type of player selected for new player testing.

Just guessing, but going by the reaction to the rather extreme dumbing-down of guild wars 2 NPE, the wrong audience was tested.

I have to agree with another comment — guild wars 2 lost a lot of its “character”. If the new player doesn’t experience the real guild wars 2, and instead just gets yet another mmorpg, how can the new player differentiate between guild wars 2 and the rest of the crowd?

Obviously some of the changes are ok — weapon skills per level instead of use — many players just aren’t used to the new model, and any change can be upsetting.

Some of the other changes — no map completion stats when the zone map is displayed — are simply bizarre.

I dont know if it whas mentioned before. There seems to be missing a ton of Juvinile Pets from the 1-15 maps. I’’m rolling out a new ranger. But cant find many pets who where there before. Still stuck at 2 pets now :-) Noticed it in Norn and Charr areas. Confirmed missing By myself: Brown Bear, Hyena, Black Bear, Red moa. Heard people that a lot more are missing on the chat. Did they migrate somewhere else :-) ?

eyestrain.3056:

From my experience playing a new character:

1. Unlocking skills all at once per weapon was more confusing for me, and more boring. Previously fights didnt feel like grind because I was unlocking skills along the way, and I had more time with one skill to feel what it did. Now I get a bunch at once and am slowed down by having to read every tool tip over and over and I don’t remember what each skill does as well.

2. Not gaining skill points each level… even with the big message saying i’m being rewarded and that i’ve “unlocked” things (many things arent locked to begin with) I dont feel each level is giving me progress toward new abilities.

3. The level up menu gives vague, incomplete information and if I want it off the screen quickly there’s no way for me to figure out later what it was telling me. It takes up the whole screen so if you impulse click on it in combat there’s no time to hover your mouse or click the things it wants you to. In my opinion a true tutorial in controlled instances would be better than these obtrusive, only half-informative, and easily missed pop ups.

4. Some world-building dialogue/heart quest options have been removed (the inquest no longer try to recruit you, no golem chess, you can’t feed bear cubs or play as a sylvan hound). What drew me to gw2 was its world, characters, visuals. These charming details help it stand out from the “kill 45 crawfish to proceed” competitors. Their absence is missed.

5. I am seriously not looking forward to buying/unlocking all of my traits.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/first

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!

I completely agree with this post. This is how I felt playing the NPE.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

hannah mee.7925:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

I am up to date with the conversation. We are discussing your thoughts internally and continuing to work on the story steps. Once I have some more new I will update the thread.

Meanwhile I just want to communicate with certainty that NPE was not implemented in order to increase monetization from the BLT. It was designed for brand new players to the game. And it is for that reason that we are working with you to understand how to better refine the system.

Chris

Chris
I know you’ve probably read this already or are already aware about it, but please think about this.
Why has each new character to overcome the leveling process, when you only want to educate new players?
New players might need help with the game mechanics once, but not every time they create a new alt.

I think every character made once a character hits level 80 should get a free level 20 scroll, and every level 20 scroll should instead turn into a random mini.

In the case of people who have hit 1/2 years of age, allow them to trade their scroll for a miniature box of some sort. For people that already used their scrolls, well – at least they got use out of them. Cut losses and let it ride.

P.S. The NPC that will trade scrolls for minis will look up character age, so someone couldn’t keep trading in scrolls by making new characters.

Your idea deals with the problem that many players don’t enjoy leveling. It gives them the opportunity to simply “skip” this part. I think that this is the wrong approach. People should be able to enjoy leveling. So first we have to determine why players don’t like leveling. The most obvious answer would be that it’s tedious and not rewarding.
Players try to make gold to get the things they want. Doing the personal story, or completing maps isn’t very rewarding. So I think that the reward porcess should be altered instead of giving players the opportunity to skip all the boring or unsatisfying stuff.

You forgot to mention that some veteran players have several 80s and want to skip to 80 because they are sitting on a plethora of cash, want to get their exotic/ascended equipment and want to do the open world as a level 80. There is virtually no amount of rewards that I would expect from leveling while maintaining reward balance to level 80 that would make me enjoy the leveling process, and I imagine many altaholics feel the same way. Leveling up, at first, was fun – but by Round 7 I just wanted to have a free 80 tome.

Made a new character today.

Everything was going pretty smoothly until level 6 at the lv7 heart(help Lexi Price) then it seems like all the XP fell off a cliff. Part of the problem might be one of the worse heart in the game(train with the militia at Claypool). This is not a new problem since that heart has always been terrible. It just doesn’t help since nothing you do there give any experience whereas most other hearts you will do a bit of fighting as well.

Gated weapons skills was pretty annoying since I could usually unlock 1 full set by around level 5 or 6. Now it requires level 10. In theory this wouldn’t matter if the leveling pace is supposed to be faster but it doesn’t feel any faster. The only part that seemed faster was once the PS unlocks the exp seems very high. Went from 10 to almost 13. Not a particularly smooth experience, more like a roller coaster.

I probably wouldn’t have cared on a staff elementalist since Meteor Shower is an awful skill most of the time.

For weapon unlocks a combination of the old and new would be better.
1) remove the level gating or at least move it lower
2) unlock by slots across all weapon sets simultaneously like the new system

Level 15 for weapon swap might be fine for someone’s first character but for an alt this feels very far away.

NitricRose.1863:

The question that needs answering, is when arena net did the player testing for the new player experience, what audience was targeted?

What should have been done, is to determine what types of players spend money on guild wars 2, and a test audience of that type of player selected for new player testing.

Just guessing, but going by the reaction to the rather extreme dumbing-down of guild wars 2 NPE, the wrong audience was tested.

I have to agree with another comment — guild wars 2 lost a lot of its “character”. If the new player doesn’t experience the real guild wars 2, and instead just gets yet another mmorpg, how can the new player differentiate between guild wars 2 and the rest of the crowd?

Obviously some of the changes are ok — weapon skills per level instead of use — many players just aren’t used to the new model, and any change can be upsetting.

Some of the other changes — no map completion stats when the zone map is displayed — are simply bizarre.

I am really curious about the focus group they tested on too. We know nothing about them or who they are. I haven’t heard from anyoen who was in the focus group or what exactly they did.

Did the focus group actually test these changes out? Or was the focus group polled and Anet assumed this is the content they would enjoy based on polls?

sirian.4981:

I am really curious about the focus group they tested on too. We know nothing about them or who they are. I haven’t heard from anyoen who was in the focus group or what exactly they did.

Did the focus group actually test these changes out? Or was the focus group polled and Anet assumed this is the content they would enjoy based on polls?

A proof that such a focus group actually existed would be nice.

Stars.2179:

sirian.4981:

I am really curious about the focus group they tested on too. We know nothing about them or who they are. I haven’t heard from anyoen who was in the focus group or what exactly they did.

Did the focus group actually test these changes out? Or was the focus group polled and Anet assumed this is the content they would enjoy based on polls?

A proof that such a focus group actually existed would be nice.

How will we be sure, if proof is delivered, you won’t then claim it is fabricated?

sirian.4981:

Did the focus group actually test these changes out? Or was the focus group polled and Anet assumed this is the content they would enjoy based on polls?

This sort of thing is often farmed out to a third-party testing/polling company. Arena net may actually have no idea who was polled (other than the focus group is interested in gaming). Yes, the responses from the pollees can be believed to some extent, but I’m suspecting the focus group was the entirely wrong audience.

As a new player who had a level 7 as my highest character prior to the patch, I’d like to put in my two cents about my leveling experience so far (I’ve since leveled a few characters to around level 20). Please note: I do not have much time to play, so I’ve only spent a couple hours on each of my characters trying out the changes.

Things I liked:

1. Weapon skill unlocks tied to slots rather than weapons. This was exciting for me as it felt less like I had to grind out each weapon, and more that I could freely test out new weapons as I learned my class. I’m one who often switches out and try new weapons, even prior to all the slots being unlocked, so it made it nice that once I unlocked say slot 4 for a weapon, I could unlock it on the rest of the weapons I had on me as well.

2. Dodge tutorial and other hints. It seemed very hand-holding at first, because I like figuring out games on my own, but some of the tips that popped up were very useful, even if not fully clear. It made me look up and learn about these aspects of gameplay properly.

3. Leveling up feels rewarding. I love being able to pick on the little diamond every time I level up. It feels more rewarding and it is very clear to me now when I level up, even if all it does is show me hints about something or another.

4. It feels much faster going between levels. I used to have to go out of my way to other hearts and areas in order to keep my level on par in the area of the map I want to explore. Now it seems to properly pace itself.

5. The compass pointing to new events, vistas, points of interest and skillpoints. It’s a bit buggy, but I really do enjoy this feature. It encourages me to wander in directions that will reward me for completing the content.

Things that have been changed:

1.1 Profession Skills, Weapon Swap, Downed State Skills and Utility Skill Unlocks feel too far out of reach. After having a character gain his weapon swap at level 7 (I think), all of a sudden having it locked because he’s only level 9 was off-putting. Utilities that I was looking forward to using seemed so far out of reach because I could only have 1 utility for the longest time. I wish these would get reset to a lower level again. As an elementalist, I’m also struggling with my attunements which I previously had now being locked. I WANT to be able to use all of my skills faster and have more time to practice with them, not be forced to learn them so far down the road after just mashing the same set of buttons all the time.

1.2 Levels for the Utilities, Weapon Swap and Profession Skills have now been lowered. I am playing right now and it definitely feels less grindy and restricted knowing that in a couple of levels I’ll have an elite. Plus I have access to a lot more utilities now. I am very pleased.

2.1 Skillpoints, Vistas, Points of Interest and “Diving Goggles” being locked to levels. I heard this was getting changed to being account bound, so I suppose this is okay, but I remember trying to interact with an NPC with the skillpoint above his head, only to find out that I couldn’t do anything with him. This just confused me even more. It’d be nice if it was introduced at an earlier stage so that I don’t run around wondering what these things are prior to them being fully explained. Maybe it can be done in an instanced tutorial instead?

Things that still concern me:

1. Beginning hearts are rather boring. Part of what drew me to this game was that “you don’t have to kill 10 of X and turn the drops in to an NPC”. I enjoy having choice and being able to use actions, such as delivering food to a cow. Now all I’m doing is interacting with things over and over again. While you still have some choice with your hearts, there’s no more variety in your actions. Hopefully this can be changed back.

2. Personal Story chapters locked behind levels. I really enjoyed being able to do the personal story whenever I wanted to, whether I was too low level or over, and liked that I could do it in small bunches. Now I don’t even know when I can see my next personal story chapter, and I’m stuck doing stuff to level so that I can see it. I’d much rather this not be the case. I also heard that some chapters have some plotholes now due to the rearrangement of some storylines?

Overall Impression

There are some good changes that have made my experience better, but the things I didn’t like took away from it enough that it became very difficult to enjoy playing, especially when I had just started the game at the end of August. I’m glad the level-gated unlocks for skills have been fixed up, as that was the most off-putting concern preventing me from playing.

Is there any menu where I can look for past feature descriptions? I’m missing the old Hints menu where you could see the hints discovered. I think it would be useful to new players to check how a specific feature works if they missed the pop up message when it was unlocked.

I don’t like the idea of weapon skills being locked and all of them automatically unlocking as you level up.

I liked it the way it was before, being able to unlock them myself. When I was a new player to this game I saw it as an incentive to unlock all weapon skills for my profession as soon as possible. While working to unlock weapon skills it made me stick with a weapon for a while causing me to familiarize myself with it. By the time I had all weapon skills unlocked for all weapons I was able to decide which type of weapon is best for my playstyle.

Now with weapon skills automatically unlocking for each weapon as you level up, there is no incentive for a new player to ever try out a different weapon. Some players may just use whatever type of weapon their character starts with and stick with it for a very long time before they decide to ever try out anything else.

versidia.4520:

Is there any menu where I can look for past feature descriptions? I’m missing the old Hints menu where you could see the hints discovered. I think it would be useful to new players to check how a specific feature works if they missed the pop up message when it was unlocked.

Apparently the hint system was retired with the September 9 feature pack. I can’t seem to find any kind of “help” system in the game that keeps track of tips and suggestions on game play. I can see this as a problem for new players who may have forgotten about something and want to refresh their memory.

I never completed the achievement for hints but I did have most hints done. The retired achievement doesn’t show how many hints I obtained, unlike other historical achievements which shows the max progress I made for what I made progress in.