Name an MMORPG better than Guild Wars 2

Name an MMORPG better than Guild Wars 2

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Posted by: Kurakura.7281

Kurakura.7281

Guildwars 1…. srsly, I think trying to make GW2 into a true MMO instead of the instanced semi-MMO killed the game for me.

Tera, Vindictus, Dragon Nest, Star trek online, Eve online,………….

(edited by Kurakura.7281)

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Posted by: Arimahn.3568

Arimahn.3568

Modern WoW has much less clunkly dungeon mechanics.
The Secret World has a much better story and occasionally atmosphere.

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Posted by: Duke Blackrose.4981

Duke Blackrose.4981

Modern WoW has much less clunkly dungeon mechanics.
The Secret World has a much better story and occasionally atmosphere.

I do really love the story and characters of The Secret World. Arenanet (who can’t seem to figure out which characters the community actually LIKES in both Guild Wars games) could really learn a lesson from them in regards to that.

It’s a shame that TSW’s “no levels” system is a blatant lie (gear IS your level) and the gameplay and mob design are just really, really bad in general. The first couple areas are fun (and the college in the second area is REALLY fun and has Hayden Montag, the best character ever) and then you run into the Ak’ab and everything just goes downhill from there and when you think it can’t get any worse, you run into the desert and just want to kill yourself with how ugly and obnoxiously unfriendly it is towards solo players.

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Posted by: Sylv.5324

Sylv.5324

AION’s armor, character editor and jumpgliding were better, but the rest was awful. (I played for two years and joined at launch.) Extremely unpolished, -extremely- grindy, the drop rates were faaaar worse than GW2’s have ever been, and enchantments breaking on a fail (and the odds of failure were higher than success) made gearing extremely difficult. The gating on acquiring PvP gear meant that it took months before you could PvP.

Ardeth, Sylvari Mesmer
Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Teofa Tsavo.9863

Teofa Tsavo.9863

Time will tell. Note that this is an industry peer recognition, not some rabid Fan vote.

http://www.gdconlineawards.com/archive/halloffame.html

LMAO at peer recognition. One MMO stays around for a long time, due to a combination of lauching at the right time, and having a gazillion dollars to advertise, following some very successful franchises and so the industry has recognized it.

If another game had some out instead of WoW and WoW came out in this environment, it would never have gotten off the ground, particularly with how buggy it was at launch.

Saying a ten year old MMO that made a lot of money got an award from industry peers is all very nice…but time will NOT tell. Because at the time WoW launched there were like 4 MMOs, most of which were piddling and underfunded. WoW was in the right place at the right time.

Now, with a hundred MMOs out, how is any one MMO going to find that same niche?

So, recognition by industry peers in 2010, 11, and 12 is invalid. But frothy fan opinion from a former print editor is irrefutable?

And still, Hall of Fame does not mean “best”, the individual consumer defines that. I would assume that people still playing these games, some from launch, would consider them “best”.

But, Ok Vayne. Hilarious. Didn’t even scroll the page, did you? Didn’t know UO and EQ had those “vast advertising budgets”. How are we talking about WOW exclusively when the link shows 3 games?

Whatever, carry on. Crusaders have to Crusade. I’m sad for you, really.

One question though. In your “humble” opinion, is there anyone in the world qualified to have an opinion on MMOs, besides yourself? Im beginning to wonder.

Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.

(edited by Teofa Tsavo.9863)

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Time will tell. Note that this is an industry peer recognition, not some rabid Fan vote.

http://www.gdconlineawards.com/archive/halloffame.html

LMAO at peer recognition. One MMO stays around for a long time, due to a combination of lauching at the right time, and having a gazillion dollars to advertise, following some very successful franchises and so the industry has recognized it.

If another game had some out instead of WoW and WoW came out in this environment, it would never have gotten off the ground, particularly with how buggy it was at launch.

Saying a ten year old MMO that made a lot of money got an award from industry peers is all very nice…but time will NOT tell. Because at the time WoW launched there were like 4 MMOs, most of which were piddling and underfunded. WoW was in the right place at the right time.

Now, with a hundred MMOs out, how is any one MMO going to find that same niche?

So, recognition by industry peers in 2010, 11, and 12 is invalid. But frothy fan opinion from a former print editor is irrefutable?

And still, Hall of Fame does not mean “best”, the individual consumer defines that.

But, Ok Vayne. Hilarious. Didn’t even scroll the page, did you? Didn’t know UO and EQ had those “vast advertising budgets”. How are we talking about WOW exclusively when the link shows 3 games?

Whatever, carry on. Crusaders have to Crusade. I’m sad for you, really.

One question though. In your “humble” opinion, is there anyone in the world qualified to have an opinion on MMOs, besides yourself? Im beginning to wonder.

Nope, my opinion means nothing either. But to hold this industry acknowledgment thing up as an icon to anything….in my industries, industry peer awards are political as hell…re academy awards.

Sure it means “something”, but it’s not so cut and dried as oh this won an award so it’s a good game. I’m relatively sure more people hate WoW than like it. What does that mean? Nothing at all.

But you know…I don’t really think any award means much of anything. Hudson Hawk was an utterly brilliant movie that made the worst movie of all times list for many professional reviewers. What does it mean?

Nothing. Nothing at all.

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Posted by: Sylv.5324

Sylv.5324

WoW is a decent game, but it’s different in focus from GW2. There are things I miss about WoW, but overall I prefer GW2, especially with the polish and fixes going on now.

Ardeth, Sylvari Mesmer
Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

There is one MMO that I liked unquestionably better than Guild Wars 2.

It was City of Heroes. Rest in Peace.

There are several reasons why I liked this game better, and now I will list them:

#1: Your character design was unique. Something I could never really get past in games like WoW, Monster Hunter, and Runescape is how your appearance is wholly dictated by the equipment you are wearing. Because of this, in those games you don’t have an identity, you are Paladin # 3009. Guild Wars 2 helps with this a bit, making personal customization the goal of character progression, but it still heavily limits players via the dye system and that armor choices can be less than stellar (I am sick of trenchcoats on medium classes).

City of Heroes didn’t have this. Your customization didn’t mean a thing toward your performance in game, and you could make nearly everything in that game. I remember taking screen shots of other people’s characters, just because their ingenuity in their design made me laugh out of my seat. You could go with dim, bland colors, or bright and vibrant colors, you could make yourself a simplistic golden-age hero, a gritty 80’s hero, a funhouse rob liefield hero with way too many pouches, you could make yourself an asian samurai elf, a gigantic purple alien, a surreal glowing god, and with so many customization options it was limitless. Every person looked unique, and left a lasting impression when designed right.

#2: Your character build was unique. The way the ability system in City of Heroes worked was like this: You pick your archetype, 14 to choose from with 10 letting you select a primary and secondary power. Then, you selected your primary power from a list of 8 to 12 powersets that were often fairly unique to your archetype. Then you selected a secondary powerset from a list of 8 to 12 powersets, again many specific to your archetype. Then, as you leveled up, you could pick up to 4 from 10 different universal power pools that were available, and then you could choose one of 5 ancillary power pools that were based on the AT, or if you completed the arc you could get one of 4 patron power pools to choose from as well. Among all of this, as you leveled up you picked the powers you wanted from all of your power sets, often skipping out on ones that are lower priority or less interesting. As you leveled up, you could put “slots” into these powers, maximum of 6 minimum of 1, that would let you enhance different aspects of that power, like how much it healed or how quickly it recharged, and you received a lot of these slots. Aside from basic enhancements, there were enhancement sets that would give you bonuses for slotting multiples in the same power.

Seems like a lot, right? Well, it was. All of this customization made it so every character was extremely unique in their abilities. Not only could you accomplish nearly any idea you set forth to do, but the high level of customization made it so the characters you made were wholly unique, even when compared to someone with the same AT, Primary, and Secondary power choices. Compared to all of this, GW2 has nothing on customization and class diversity. Nothing

#3: You were powerful. The whole game was balanced around the idea that you were going to be fighting multiple enemies at the same time. You’d fight mooks 3 to 6 at a time. You’d fight lieutenants 2 to 3 at a time. You’d fight boss enemies 1 to 2 at a time. You fight underlings 12 at a time. When you gathered together a group of 8 players, you’d end up fighting against a sea of enemies near innumerable, and you could plow right through them if done right. The challenge was presented in the enemy’s numbers, and not in their unique stats and abilities, so you played and felt like a kitten while doing it.

Most MMOs, GW2 included, don’t do this. In GW2, you’re group of 5 players has to fight against 3 silver mobs, and often times they’ll decimate you. You feel quite powerless at times, only going “plink, plink” with spells and “pew pew” with guns. Unless you use zerker you don’t feel the impact of the fight. Enemies seem like bastions of health and power that you are dwarfed beneath. Sure, in GW2 there was Archvillains who were designed to take multiple people to fight, but they were rare and were only present after hallways of mooks that you plowed through to get to them.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: LordByron.8369

LordByron.8369

granado espada >.>

completely destroyed by market manipulation but was fun.

And there was no holy trinity also

Mostly because when you use 3 characters at once you can have a dps, a ranged and an healer without problems

GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

#4: There was an adjustable difficulty. While playing the game, you yourself could decide how encounters went. You could make it so you were the “equivalent” of up to 8 players, spawning the respective amount of enemies to fight just yourself. You could increase the levels of enemies up to +4 your own making it so enemies were several times more difficult on an individual level (the level system, like GW2, was a bit inflexible in this regard). You could also make them one level lower than yourself, making them easier.

There was a potion system called “inspirations” which were cheap and allowed you to power up or defense up for content that was too hard to be done for some reason. Ultimately, the game was balanced around using basic enhancements for powers without all of the special effects from higher grade enhancements. This let the game be as easy as you wanted it to be, as hard as you wanted it to be, and it also let you customize yourself to be regular strength, or super powerful.

I’ve never seen an MMO do this before. They all have this “step up or get out of the way” design to them. GW2 Dungeons and bosses are a certain difficulty, and you cannot make them easier or harder, depending on your preference. Because of this, CoH was approachable, and appeased by min/maxers and casuals alike.

#5: It was big. While leveling up my 10 characters, I never went through the same content twice. I never experienced everything, either.

#6: It had a way so you could design quests. There was something called a Mission Architect, which let you design your own string of missions, make your own custom enemies, and write your own stories to fit in them. This. Was. Awesome. Although it was often made just to abuse grinding loopholes (which is hilarious since leveling in that game wasn’t hard), often times you’d come across gems that were intriguing, hilarious, or disturbing. By putting game design into the players hands, near endless content was made, free of charge.

#7: It wasn’t just another fantasy MMO. Look, I gotta level with everyone here: I’m sick and tired of elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, trolls. I’m tired of swords and sorcery. City of Heroes took place in “look out your window” modern day. It combined everything: sometimes you had to fight off wizards. Sometimes, zombies. Sometimes, spec ops. Sometimes, aliens. Sometimes, ninjas. Sometimes, cyberpunk hooligans. Sometimes, eldritch abominations. Sometimes, robots. It was always interesting, and by writing in a modern setting this basically meant everything was possible. You would experience a multitude of concepts and stories without being limited to the generic fantasy setting that everyone and their grandmother uses nowadays.

I was heartbroken when it was shut down. I know games come and games go, but City of Heroes was my game.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: Seyryu.5086

Seyryu.5086

The reason people flock back to WoW is because it doesn’t require a top-notch pc ,whereas GW2 does.

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Posted by: PVStar.3658

PVStar.3658

Thread should be renamed to “MY APPLE IS BETTER THAN YOUR ORANGE”.

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Posted by: DrixTrix.7168

DrixTrix.7168

When Every MMO is released its ’’amazing’’ then a month to two months the true light shines, GW2 has been THE most positive MMO for years, LotrO was slated as being geared too much towards fan’s of the genre and depended on that, as did star wars no matter how good the story that seemed to be there only driving force. Wildstar and ESO are not out yet so there’s no point in mentioning those at this point in time, ESO has great potential but if you ask me (beta) the combat is terrible at the moment feels like a 3rd person FPS with clunky movement.

Aion…argh what a missed opportunity its widely regarded that this could have been such a great MMO instead NCsoft missed the mark almost completely however there concept was fantastic, alas never came to pass.

GW2 Vs WoW comments, to be honest i think GW2 can hold it’s own and will hold its own against this behemoth now WoW has been on a steady decline and i personally know a lot of people when i used to play are getting in contact with me and coming over (or back) to GW2 thats a good sign, however fully comparing the two is futile WoW as old hat as it is GFX wise has had 10 years to polish itself, it did that then started to slowly rub that off, WoW should also be in a league of its own as its an anomaly the player base this had will from subs most likely not repeat itself in decades, if ever. dont forget the majority where still as always form the middle east.

LoL, Neverwinter, D3 ….. i dont think you can put these against GW2 as an MMO neverwinter is heavily instanced just like the diablo series so its not a true MMO more a CO-OPMO which is no problem there great in there own right and LoL is as already stated MOBA and the most played game on the planet.

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Posted by: CobaltSixty.1542

CobaltSixty.1542

You know how I know GW2 is a good game?

People listing games that are “better” than GW2, many of them still playable, are here on the GW2 forums instead of playing those games.

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Posted by: Sylv.5324

Sylv.5324

The reason people flock back to WoW is because it doesn’t require a top-notch pc ,whereas GW2 does.

I’ve noticed that the goes-back-to-WoW crowd always flocks back to WoW no matter which game it is or for what reason. What they really want is WoW with better graphics.

Ardeth, Sylvari Mesmer
Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: PolarisNova.3867

PolarisNova.3867

Shook my head at the first reply in this thread…..Aion is better than GW2? I played Aion for a year and a half, and it was okay, but certainly in no way shape or form better than GW2 in any sense of the word.

Lotro is another favourite of mine, but for GW2 is the most fun and most fascinating MMO I have played yet.

~Lady Amelia of the House of Rose~

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Posted by: Vogue.6305

Vogue.6305

guild wars 1 .

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Posted by: Esplen.3940

Esplen.3940

The reason people flock back to WoW is because it doesn’t require a top-notch pc ,whereas GW2 does.

I’ve noticed that the goes-back-to-WoW crowd always flocks back to WoW no matter which game it is or for what reason. What they really want is WoW with better graphics.

My PC is kitten and I don’t go back to WoW.

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Posted by: Fernling.1729

Fernling.1729

You know how I know GW2 is a good game?

People listing games that are “better” than GW2, many of them still playable, are here on the GW2 forums instead of playing those games.

I play several different mmos and spend an equal amount of time on each forum. I have 4 different tabs up now.

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Posted by: Wryog.5073

Wryog.5073

Some of the posts don’t even make sense. They list probably every MMO that the poster knows and some of them aren’t even out yet. I guess that for some people the best MMOs really are the ones that aren’t out yet.
Also comparing GW2 to games with a vertical progression(WoW, SWToR, I played those 2 myself for some time) is like comparing StarCraft to Heroes of Might and Magic. Both series are Strategy but one is RTS and the other is TBS. I doubt that they have much competition between each other simply because they’re extremely different.

Wryog [WBC] – elementalist
Gunnar’s Hold

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Posted by: Wryog.5073

Wryog.5073

The reason people flock back to WoW is because it doesn’t require a top-notch pc ,whereas GW2 does.

I’ve noticed that the goes-back-to-WoW crowd always flocks back to WoW no matter which game it is or for what reason. What they really want is WoW with better graphics.

I think that’s what a lot of the GW1 players wanted too. People should stop wanting the same game in better graphics. It won’t come out, every new game is different in some way. The most that you can expect is that game’s developers to work on the graphics(for example that was supposed to happen in WoW with the last expansion but then they took that off the list for some strange reason).
Well, it’s either that or some people just like to go “oh, that new game is totally worse than the old games that I’ve played”. I’ve seen in happen even with cases like Heroes 3 and 5 where 5 was basically a clone of 3 with better graphics, better balance, some extra options added in the last expansion and it had cut scenes. Some people still said that the older one was better without really giving a reason.

Wryog [WBC] – elementalist
Gunnar’s Hold

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Posted by: Galen Grey.4709

Galen Grey.4709

This question has no objective answer. I played WoW at launch and well it just didnt click on me, for me personally nearly every MMO is better then WoW. That being said while at this point in time Gw2 is the best MMO for me personally I am sure that for people who like the things WoW does Gw2 can never be the better game. If you like raiding, if you like Vertical progression, If you like hardcore game play Gw2 will never measure up to that because its trying to go the exact opposite direction and just branching in those areas a little bit and nothing else.

I can understand people who find it hard to understand how anyone can think this is anything but a great game. I look at dynamic events and am awestruck at how alive they seem. NPCs running all over the place, incredible attention to detail, Things in the world actually visually change based on whats happening in that dynamic event etc.. Its understandble that a person who really appreciates that sort of thing scratches their head when they hear someone say MMO X is the better game and that game has the usual static quest where a threat of invasion by the most vicious 100ft beast doesnt have anyone in the village fearing for their life move by a single pixel ever. Not to mention that no matter how many times you killed said beast 5 seconds later its there again. But look at it from the other side. Some people dont play MMOs for the story, they play for the action. I am sure you all heard people claims that people dont read quest texts, thats not because they dont know how to read, thats because they dont want to waste time reading text, they want to jump right in the action as quickly as possible. Do you think Dynamic Events are great content for said people? If they’re not willing to spend 30 seconds reading a paragraph do you think these people are willing to wait 30 minutes for an event to spawn? or wait 5 minutes for an NPC to send a pigeon calling for a caravan which spawns at a way point 3 minutes down the road and walks slowly to your location? For said people probably every MMO is better then GW2 just like for me the same was with WoW.

If you like the sort of things Gw2 does you will not be able to name a better MMO at this point of time because none of them do most of the things Gw2 does much less do it better. If you like different mechanics / play styles no matter how great Gw2 might do those things you’ll still hate them because thats not what you like. Therefor depending on what you like or dislike it will be impossible / easy to name a better MMO.

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Posted by: Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

It’s indeed rather pointless to compare games like this, because it’s a matter of personal taste and preference. It depends on what you want, that determines what you like.

For me, I like SWTOR more than GW2. Why SWTOR? I know, there was a lot of negativity around the game last year and it was not unfair criticism, but they have turned things around quite a bit. So what then makes me like SWTOR?

Well it has much better story and voice acting. Much higher quality indeed and I like the feel of the world. So I like being there, there is a pull, an attraction.

Also I can make characters that look good and have lot more armour choices I like than here in GW2.

And yes, vertical progression. To each their own but I like having something to work towards that includes beating content, the challenge. It actually feels like you are rewarded for your efforts, instead of just grinding yourself silly.

Great story telling does mean it’s more linear, but I am ok with that. Character armours do have clipping issues there as well and vertical progression can be frustrating as well. So by no means a perfect game (no MMO is really), but it does some things that appeal to me and work for me.

So why do I play GW2. Well, I also want to play a fantasy setting but I play it now as a casual filler when I wanna do something else. GW2’s world is beautifully crafted, but it doesn’t have that pull into the world that I do have in SWTOR but also had in GW1. The character models in GW2 all look too young for me, so that’s a shame and yes poor design in armour/gear. Story telling/voice acting in GW2 is painful and breaks immersion, so I skip all convo’s here. And well once you’re level 80 there’s very little to do beyond what you were already doing.

I also don’t like the excessive party stuff in GW2 so I steer clear of that. This is not to say that GW2 doesn’t have anything going for it, but when it comes to preferences, GW2 can only be a casual game for me that I visit from time to time. No real attachment like I did have with GW1.

It is odd to me that when I look at NcSoft that already had titles like GW1 and Aion in it, that GW2 just has such poor armour design. I keep coming back to that but it was such a great thing for me to collect elite armour sets in GW1, that it just baffles me how poor the design is in this game. My guardian doesn’t need to do dungeons because I don’t like a single armour set from the dungeons. I don’t see the point in legendaries and WvW I like occasionally….guess that’s the end of my endgame activities lol.

It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

You know how I know GW2 is a good game?

People listing games that are “better” than GW2, many of them still playable, are here on the GW2 forums instead of playing those games.

This isn’t true. The thing with different MMOs is that they provide different experiences, and as much as you like one you’ll go to others to get what they offer.

\
If sales mean nothing, then why is WoW still on the top? Oh, right. It sold a ton of games. People say it sucks all the time, yet sales say that WoW is fantastic, which it is.

The interesting thing about MMOs are that they are in direct competition with themselves. In regular gaming, there isn’t anything wrong with owning Battlefield and Call of Duty at the same time. But MMOs have three issues that cause them to be exclusive to each other.

1)Subscriptions and money investment. The subscription model is falling to the wayside, but nonetheless it still represents the problem perfectly: there’s a finite amount of free time everyone has, and to get their money’s worth they’ll tend to play one MMO at a time.

2)Time investment. MMOs, to keep people playing, have a high ceiling and exponential experience curves to give people a sense of constant progress. To “complete” the game, you’ll often require months or even years of dedication. Starting a new MMO means abandoning all of that work and starting from scratch again, so many people don’t do it.

3)Community investment. You make friends while playing the game, and going to a new game tends to leave your friends behind.

Because of this, eventually one MMO was going to become dominant. The market itself encourages zerg balling.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: Dante.1508

Dante.1508

The Secret World, Neverwinter, Allods Online even Guildwars 1 i’ve had a more meaningful playing experience in all those lately than Guildwars 2 provided..

Yes Guildwars 2 is fun to level up in, after you max out its grind and bordem sorry but that’s my opinion..

Modern WoW has much less clunkly dungeon mechanics.
The Secret World has a much better story and occasionally atmosphere.

I do really love the story and characters of The Secret World. Arenanet (who can’t seem to figure out which characters the community actually LIKES in both Guild Wars games) could really learn a lesson from them in regards to that.

It’s a shame that TSW’s “no levels” system is a blatant lie (gear IS your level) and the gameplay and mob design are just really, really bad in general. The first couple areas are fun (and the college in the second area is REALLY fun and has Hayden Montag, the best character ever) and then you run into the Ak’ab and everything just goes downhill from there and when you think it can’t get any worse, you run into the desert and just want to kill yourself with how ugly and obnoxiously unfriendly it is towards solo players.

Very cool post, totally agree, love TSW honestly the story is top notch but those ak’ab omfg they suck… but honestly compared to GW2 sorry TSW beats it, but it doesn’t hold your hand like GW2 does, it makes you think and use skill, the skill selection process is the best i’ve dealt with since Guildwars 1..

(edited by Dante.1508)

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Posted by: AntiGw.9367

AntiGw.9367

Allods Online

AO is a pay2win grindy kittenfest. Comparing it to GW2 is just… lol

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Posted by: Yaki.9563

Yaki.9563

Time will tell. Note that this is an industry peer recognition, not some rabid Fan vote.

http://www.gdconlineawards.com/archive/halloffame.html

LMAO at peer recognition. One MMO stays around for a long time, due to a combination of lauching at the right time, and having a gazillion dollars to advertise, following some very successful franchises and so the industry has recognized it.

If another game had some out instead of WoW and WoW came out in this environment, it would never have gotten off the ground, particularly with how buggy it was at launch.

Saying a ten year old MMO that made a lot of money got an award from industry peers is all very nice…but time will NOT tell. Because at the time WoW launched there were like 4 MMOs, most of which were piddling and underfunded. WoW was in the right place at the right time.

Now, with a hundred MMOs out, how is any one MMO going to find that same niche?

Ignorance this bad has to be willful.

WoW single handedly grew the MMO market to what it is now. Something that no other game could do. Not even with franchises like Star Wars and LotR to back them (released around the same time). There are 100’s of MMO’s out because of WoW, not in spite of it. WoW drew in millions of players who would, and still don’t, play any other MMO. I know adults who have never played another computer game except WoW. I know (a lot of) kids who wouldn’t touch an MMO with a 10 ft. pole who play WoW. In fact I haven’t met a single person in real life who plays an MMO other than WoW.

And somehow, nearly 10 years later, with these 100’s of other MMO’s you think that WoW still has 5 to 100 times the sub/players only because it was in the right place at the right time? Laughable.

Name an MMORPG better than Guild Wars 2

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Time will tell. Note that this is an industry peer recognition, not some rabid Fan vote.

http://www.gdconlineawards.com/archive/halloffame.html

LMAO at peer recognition. One MMO stays around for a long time, due to a combination of lauching at the right time, and having a gazillion dollars to advertise, following some very successful franchises and so the industry has recognized it.

If another game had some out instead of WoW and WoW came out in this environment, it would never have gotten off the ground, particularly with how buggy it was at launch.

Saying a ten year old MMO that made a lot of money got an award from industry peers is all very nice…but time will NOT tell. Because at the time WoW launched there were like 4 MMOs, most of which were piddling and underfunded. WoW was in the right place at the right time.

Now, with a hundred MMOs out, how is any one MMO going to find that same niche?

Ignorance this bad has to be willful.

WoW single handedly grew the MMO market to what it is now. Something that no other game could do. Not even with franchises like Star Wars and LotR to back them (released around the same time). There are 100’s of MMO’s out because of WoW, not in spite of it. WoW drew in millions of players who would, and still don’t, play any other MMO. I know adults who have never played another computer game except WoW. I know (a lot of) kids who wouldn’t touch an MMO with a 10 ft. pole who play WoW. In fact I haven’t met a single person in real life who plays an MMO other than WoW.

And somehow, nearly 10 years later, with these 100’s of other MMO’s you think that WoW still has 5 to 100 times the sub/players only because it was in the right place at the right time? Laughable.

This isn’t ignorance. This is someone who predated WoW as a gamer and doesn’t LIKE the direction WoW took the MMO genre. I think the MMO genre will need a decade to heal from what WoW (and WoW clones) have done to it.

There’s no ignorance here, just a different point of view. You know, Big Brother has more viewers than WoW has players, but I don’t necessarily like the direction reality TV is going either. Popularity doesn’t guarantee quality.

In my mind, by focusing on the MMO aspect and ignoring the RPG aspect of the genre, WoW has set this industry back a long, long way. By making the game about loot and progression, this is the real bug bear this industry has to deal with.

WoW as indeed an addictive game, but even people I know who played it said they were bored with it all the time, but kept going back to it.

No, I’m not ignorant about this. I feel that if WoW hadn’t become popular this genre might be okay today. As it is, I think it mostly sucks horribly.

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Posted by: Yaki.9563

Yaki.9563

The interesting thing about MMOs are that they are in direct competition with themselves. In regular gaming, there isn’t anything wrong with owning Battlefield and Call of Duty at the same time. But MMOs have three issues that cause them to be exclusive to each other.

Because of this, eventually one MMO was going to become dominant. The market itself encourages zerg balling.

Yes, there was a dominant MMO (or two). And it had 250,000-500,000 subs. Then WoW showed up and nearly overnight it doubled, tripled, and eventually had 20 times the players of those MMOs. Those WoW players didn’t come from other MMOs. They can from everywhere, even from complete non-gamers. This is something that is almost exclusively true about WoW, not other MMOs. Every other MMO scavenges their subs/players from other MMOs, including WoW.

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Posted by: Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

Ignorance this bad has to be willful.

WoW single handedly grew the MMO market to what it is now. Something that no other game could do. Not even with franchises like Star Wars and LotR to back them (released around the same time). There are 100’s of MMO’s out because of WoW, not in spite of it. WoW drew in millions of players who would, and still don’t, play any other MMO. I know adults who have never played another computer game except WoW. I know (a lot of) kids who wouldn’t touch an MMO with a 10 ft. pole who play WoW. In fact I haven’t met a single person in real life who plays an MMO other than WoW.

And somehow, nearly 10 years later, with these 100’s of other MMO’s you think that WoW still has 5 to 100 times the sub/players only because it was in the right place at the right time? Laughable.

I don’t entirely agree with you. WoW was in the right place and the right time, there really is no denying that. However, I do agree that that’s not the whole story.

Blizzard is a company that actually is willing to invest into the future. All the MMOs that followed looked at their sucess and wanted to copy that success and failed. Why? Because they are much more influenced by shareholders whims and being bought out by other companies that have a much more business than developer approach. Not to say that WoW isn’t business like, but they are willing to invest and keep investing. It’s that commitment that I think made the game stay big even to this date.

It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

The interesting thing about MMOs are that they are in direct competition with themselves. In regular gaming, there isn’t anything wrong with owning Battlefield and Call of Duty at the same time. But MMOs have three issues that cause them to be exclusive to each other.

Because of this, eventually one MMO was going to become dominant. The market itself encourages zerg balling.

Yes, there was a dominant MMO (or two). And it had 250,000-500,000 subs. Then WoW showed up and nearly overnight it doubled, tripled, and eventually had 20 times the players of those MMOs. Those WoW players didn’t come from other MMOs. They can from everywhere, even from complete non-gamers. This is something that is almost exclusively true about WoW, not other MMOs. Every other MMO scavenges their subs/players from other MMOs, including WoW.

Many people play Guild Wars 2 that have never played an MMO before and some play Guild Wars 2 having never played a computer game before. I know some of them.

No telling what will happen in the future, but this game has made an impact on the landscape. Possibly the biggest since WoW.

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Posted by: Yaki.9563

Yaki.9563

Time will tell. Note that this is an industry peer recognition, not some rabid Fan vote.

http://www.gdconlineawards.com/archive/halloffame.html

LMAO at peer recognition. One MMO stays around for a long time, due to a combination of lauching at the right time, and having a gazillion dollars to advertise, following some very successful franchises and so the industry has recognized it.

If another game had some out instead of WoW and WoW came out in this environment, it would never have gotten off the ground, particularly with how buggy it was at launch.

Saying a ten year old MMO that made a lot of money got an award from industry peers is all very nice…but time will NOT tell. Because at the time WoW launched there were like 4 MMOs, most of which were piddling and underfunded. WoW was in the right place at the right time.

Now, with a hundred MMOs out, how is any one MMO going to find that same niche?

Ignorance this bad has to be willful.

WoW single handedly grew the MMO market to what it is now. Something that no other game could do. Not even with franchises like Star Wars and LotR to back them (released around the same time). There are 100’s of MMO’s out because of WoW, not in spite of it. WoW drew in millions of players who would, and still don’t, play any other MMO. I know adults who have never played another computer game except WoW. I know (a lot of) kids who wouldn’t touch an MMO with a 10 ft. pole who play WoW. In fact I haven’t met a single person in real life who plays an MMO other than WoW.

And somehow, nearly 10 years later, with these 100’s of other MMO’s you think that WoW still has 5 to 100 times the sub/players only because it was in the right place at the right time? Laughable.

This isn’t ignorance. This is someone who predated WoW as a gamer and doesn’t LIKE the direction WoW took the MMO genre. I think the MMO genre will need a decade to heal from what WoW (and WoW clones) have done to it.

There’s no ignorance here, just a different point of view. You know, Big Brother has more viewers than WoW has players, but I don’t necessarily like the direction reality TV is going either. Popularity doesn’t guarantee quality.

In my mind, by focusing on the MMO aspect and ignoring the RPG aspect of the genre, WoW has set this industry back a long, long way. By making the game about loot and progression, this is the real bug bear this industry has to deal with.

WoW as indeed an addictive game, but even people I know who played it said they were bored with it all the time, but kept going back to it.

No, I’m not ignorant about this. I feel that if WoW hadn’t become popular this genre might be okay today. As it is, I think it mostly sucks horribly.

Your two posts seem to be about two completely different things. In the first, you claim WoW is successful by mere coincidence. In the 2nd you ignore my rebuttal and just say how you hate WoW.

Maybe MMO’s might be better without WoW, but the market would be much, much, much smaller. Orders of magnitude smaller. GW2 would have had less funding and sold 300k copies if WoW had never come along. Sure, it would be a different game and maybe one that you’d like better, but I doubt that ANet would be happier.

Grind-games still exist. They fail (by today’s standards) but you can find them and still play them if you want. You’ll deal with lower budgets, less customer service, less updates, probably even more money-grabbing, etc. but you can’t get your nostalgia for free. The days of 50k sub MMO’s being among the biggest and best are long gone.

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

The interesting thing about MMOs are that they are in direct competition with themselves. In regular gaming, there isn’t anything wrong with owning Battlefield and Call of Duty at the same time. But MMOs have three issues that cause them to be exclusive to each other.

Because of this, eventually one MMO was going to become dominant. The market itself encourages zerg balling.

Yes, there was a dominant MMO (or two). And it had 250,000-500,000 subs. Then WoW showed up and nearly overnight it doubled, tripled, and eventually had 20 times the players of those MMOs. Those WoW players didn’t come from other MMOs. They can from everywhere, even from complete non-gamers. This is something that is almost exclusively true about WoW, not other MMOs. Every other MMO scavenges their subs/players from other MMOs, including WoW.

Customer base growth has nothing to do with anything that I said.

EDIT: All of this talk about Wow reminds me of a rather interesting video I saw once:

Its quite funny, but I think it explains where Vaynes complaints come from. They are, valid viewpoints, after all.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

(edited by Blood Red Arachnid.2493)

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Time will tell. Note that this is an industry peer recognition, not some rabid Fan vote.

http://www.gdconlineawards.com/archive/halloffame.html

LMAO at peer recognition. One MMO stays around for a long time, due to a combination of lauching at the right time, and having a gazillion dollars to advertise, following some very successful franchises and so the industry has recognized it.

If another game had some out instead of WoW and WoW came out in this environment, it would never have gotten off the ground, particularly with how buggy it was at launch.

Saying a ten year old MMO that made a lot of money got an award from industry peers is all very nice…but time will NOT tell. Because at the time WoW launched there were like 4 MMOs, most of which were piddling and underfunded. WoW was in the right place at the right time.

Now, with a hundred MMOs out, how is any one MMO going to find that same niche?

Ignorance this bad has to be willful.

WoW single handedly grew the MMO market to what it is now. Something that no other game could do. Not even with franchises like Star Wars and LotR to back them (released around the same time). There are 100’s of MMO’s out because of WoW, not in spite of it. WoW drew in millions of players who would, and still don’t, play any other MMO. I know adults who have never played another computer game except WoW. I know (a lot of) kids who wouldn’t touch an MMO with a 10 ft. pole who play WoW. In fact I haven’t met a single person in real life who plays an MMO other than WoW.

And somehow, nearly 10 years later, with these 100’s of other MMO’s you think that WoW still has 5 to 100 times the sub/players only because it was in the right place at the right time? Laughable.

This isn’t ignorance. This is someone who predated WoW as a gamer and doesn’t LIKE the direction WoW took the MMO genre. I think the MMO genre will need a decade to heal from what WoW (and WoW clones) have done to it.

There’s no ignorance here, just a different point of view. You know, Big Brother has more viewers than WoW has players, but I don’t necessarily like the direction reality TV is going either. Popularity doesn’t guarantee quality.

In my mind, by focusing on the MMO aspect and ignoring the RPG aspect of the genre, WoW has set this industry back a long, long way. By making the game about loot and progression, this is the real bug bear this industry has to deal with.

WoW as indeed an addictive game, but even people I know who played it said they were bored with it all the time, but kept going back to it.

No, I’m not ignorant about this. I feel that if WoW hadn’t become popular this genre might be okay today. As it is, I think it mostly sucks horribly.

Your two posts seem to be about two completely different things. In the first, you claim WoW is successful by mere coincidence. In the 2nd you ignore my rebuttal and just say how you hate WoW.

Maybe MMO’s might be better without WoW, but the market would be much, much, much smaller. Orders of magnitude smaller. GW2 would have had less funding and sold 300k copies if WoW had never come along. Sure, it would be a different game and maybe one that you’d like better, but I doubt that ANet would be happier.

Grind-games still exist. They fail (by today’s standards) but you can find them and still play them if you want. You’ll deal with lower budgets, less customer service, less updates, probably even more money-grabbing, etc. but you can’t get your nostalgia for free. The days of 50k sub MMO’s being among the biggest and best are long gone.

We have no idea if the market would be much smaller, because no game since Blizzard got in with their gazillion dollar advertising campaigns had a real chance. Everyone that could have been a contender had to launch early for financial reasons, even Guild Wars 2. This game is only now starting to become what it should…and it’s still got a ways to go.

Having deep pockets is what propelled Blizzard to its current heights. Money makes money.

I’m not saying it’s a bad game…I’m saying it’s success has doomed the industry to WoW and a whole bunch of little WoWs. So if you like WoW…fine. If you don’t like WoW, you’re completely screwed. I believe that WoW is bad enough for enough people, that it prevented people who might have played MMOs from coming into the market. It found an audience, but locked out an audience I believe is bigger.

Now MMOs have such a bad name with so many people, it’s an uphill battle for ALL new MMOs.

That’s how I see it.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Back then it was nicknamed Evercrack. But it’s numbers pale in comparison to WoW. WoW blew by them in less than 6 months, 10x the number in only a year.

WoW is a freak. It’s a rogue wave. Nobody is ever going to come near it’s peak ever again short of something like OZ from Summer Wars being created.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Serenity.6149

Serenity.6149

While I’m sure there are anti-GW2 trolls (just as the OP seems to be an anti-WoW troll), just because some people are unhappy with GW2’s direction doesn’t make them haters. This “if you have anything bad to say, go elsewhere” attitude has to stop. Positive opinion isn’t the only valid opinion, and if this game is to continue strong, it needs both sides voiced. Aside from the people who try (miserably) to hold the game hostage (“change this or I’m leaving”), a lot of us are voicing legitimate issues with the game that are causing people we know (friends, family or guildmates) to leave the game. I’ve been in two guilds already that have been decimated by people losing interest. We still have the more casual players popping in every now and then, but all the hardcore players who would be online almost all the time have pretty much left. I’d rather the game address some of its issues so they have a reason to come back, and only singing praises of GW2’s strong points isn’t likely to make that happen.

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Posted by: Justdeifyme.9387

Justdeifyme.9387

As for Lotro, it’s a pretty decent MMO…but it has major flaws as well. Not the least of it is the pay to win aspect. Or pay to unlock this content, pay to unlock that content. You know I’d love to do that area with you, but I haven’t bought it yet.

For a free to play game, that’s one expensive game.

Well LotrO is a fest for Lord of the Ring Fanboys like me, I have some experiences with this game that still melt my heart. But that’s not enough to be blind for what a great game gw2 is.

When Lotro launched, it was an amazing game. When Turbine took over and it went free to play…not so much.

The problem is Lord of the Rings isn’t the game. You love the franchise. But that has nothing to do with Lotro as an MMO. Answer me honestly…if that game had characters and places you didn’t know from Tolkien and it was just an MMO, but with halflings instead of hobbits, generic elves and dwarves…no Rivendale, no Shire, no Mines of Moria…would it still be a great MMO?

No, it probably wouldn’t, I spend more than 150€ for that game to play not even every single content and to have it permantly. While you can earn cash shop points ingame via deeds, it’s still has a poorly handed marketing system. But as I said, that couldn’t keep me off since the game itself is great for fans.

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Posted by: Algreg.3629

Algreg.3629

matter of taste and opinion.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Except to fix the issues lot of the GW2 naysayers have with the game are diametrically opposite to what makes the game popular to those who don’t have a problem with it. They cry bring back the triad, bring back the complex trait/skill system, where’s the expansion. Things that will never be “fixed” because they were intentionally left out/changed when Anet formulated what GW2 was going to be. So there is no satisfying them. They will simply launch thread after thread every time a new living story comes out, every patch about how the game is still horribly broken.

How many of them powered through the entire content of the game in a matter of a month or two, all classes, all races, all zones, all events, all activities? At this point any new content isn’t enough for them. They will blow through it in less than a day assuming they are still playing at all.

If this was a subscription based game they could simply take their money elsewhere as a sign of displeasure but here, they money has been spent already. They can’t unspend it. Sure they can avoid buying gems with cash but they simply don’t have a punitive action they can take other than sit on the forum and complain bitterly how they were led on by that darn seductive YouTube video they all collectively read into way too much, built up expectations to much an extreme, and like an Internet date, find out that disappointed was the only realistic outcome.

And like politics or religion or other polarizing issues, each of these haters will focus on some singular point that if Anet doesn’t fix, no matter what else they may fix or alter about the game, will be the point that makes the game suck for them. So there is no pleasing them. And they will haunt here, being haters, forever.

Sure they think they are helping by being advocates for aspects of an MMO that I personally don’t mind are gone. Things like wanting a way to look at a character’s stats and equipment so they can exclude them from parties. That’s right, the only part of this game that requires forming a party, a part that can have some sweat armor and weapon skins, in a game where every place else you could “solo” and flash mob against bigger challenges, they want a tool to exclude other players who don’t play like them, the “right” way with whatever trait load out or sets of runs or stat bonuses that are the flavor of the week/month for that profession. So why should Anet, who went out of their way to break down the walls that kept players from helping each other in other MMOs, provide a tool of exclusion? Would be kind of bipolar of them you think? And that’s just one example that springs to mind.

But hey, we’re just going to have to put up with this because you can’t get rid of them in a non-subscription game. And after the next “well just you wait till XXX comes out Anet and then you will be in real trouble” MMO ends up being less than their ideal, just maybe we will get lucky and they will decide to haunt that game’s forums.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: CC Jörn.5960

CC Jörn.5960

Hey guys,

as this thread does not invite a constructive discussion and also elicits many posts that can be taken as advertisement for other games, we decided to close it.

Please note that these forums are intended for talking exclusively about GW2, while mentioning or comparing it to other titles may at times be appropriate, having a dedicated thread for comparing it to other games and stating which other games are in your opinion better is considered inappropriate.

Thanks for your understanding.