Guild Wars 2

I, for a brief moment, joined a guild. This guild ran AB multi maps. They would anchor the maps for ppl and asked for ppl to tip. (nothing wrong so far).
The commander would gather all the tips, and put it into the bank. He would then give his anchors a flat rate (small flat rate)…. reguardless of the amount he gathered.

He claims that the tips will pay for future runs, letting him give this “flat rate” in the future. No one knows how much he was tipped. (very shady).
If the map fails, the anchor of said map, doesn’t get this “flat rate”.

Does this seem right? Fair?
My first reaction was that everyone anchoring should get an egual share.
Please let us know your opinion on this, because the (very shady) comm will read this later.
Thanks all!

If the guild leader is honest, it’s fine. But there’s no way to cross check that he is. I’d bail, personally. Not my cup of tea.

In all my years of running a guild I never asked for people to fund it, or anything in it.

Thank you Vayne… i bailed as soon as I heard this. Not my cup of tea either.
Actually hoping alot will see this and post.
Just seems like a even split would be best, but as you pointed out, no way to really tell

If it is felt that practices are unfair, one might consider finding a different Guild. These sorts of practices will only be supported by those that are willing.

Edit: If your purpose is to ‘name and shame’ the Guild, you may want to reconsider your thread. Perusal of the Forum Rules (found on the front page) may be in order.

Good luck.

ok… I deleted the post that named the Guild… that was not my intent.

My only question is that in this AB multi map run, is it fair for the commander to keep the tips, instead of splitting it with the anchors…
In this instance, when players tip, it is assumed that it would be split.
Should we have to ask?
I have another guild, but want ppl to think and question the motives behind some peoples actions.
Find a guild that you enjoy.
Best wishes to all

Like I said, if the ‘anchors’ feel they are being treated unfairly, they will likely leave. With no anchors, the practice will soon die away.

Any guild, or party, that charges members for anything is not one to be part of and viewed with suspicion.

A ‘good’ Guild cares for its members and exists to help/support them. Ideally, if members feel involved and identify with their Guild, they will choose to contribute to its growth/development – through active participation or simply by dropping the odd spare change/materials/items into the Bank or Treasury. No Guild should expect this though, the choice on contributions is always voluntary.

Same applies to a Party, I never liked the idea of ‘selling’ Dungeons or even event/mission/adventure runs to make gold. If you can do it easily then do it to help those who can’t – just because, at some time when you started playing, pretty sure someone helped you without expecting/demanding payment.

Tipping, as a gesture of appreciation/thanks, is fine – the person helping has the option of accepting or returning the gift and more importantly if you choose to make the offer you obviously feel comfortable doing it (which makes you a nice person).

Breeze

Agreed. They lost me…
How do you think the “tip” system should be?
Lets say you and 5 friends run and “anchor” diff maps in AB, one person gets all the tips sent to them…
Should said tip gatherer keep, share, split, or give a small “flat rate”?

Anchoring is completely voluntary and tipping is voluntary. People anchor because they want to, not because of tips. That’s literally it, the guild has been farming AB for so long now most members are just burnt out from looting and want to help out other members. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

People have multiple options to tip anchors. They can donate straight to each anchor, or tip straight to the guild bank if they’re uncomfortable sending it to any single individual. Tipping is also completely voluntary. As someone who’s been present on several runs when there weren’t enough tips gathered to cover the cost of the anchors, the method makes sure everyone’s covered.

I honestly don’t understand why you’re upset. Given you were only in guild a couple of hours, the foundation upon which you’ve generated your rage (which, by the way, bystanders, is being expressed in relentlessly flamey fashion to some of the guild commanders) is faulty.

if you are anchoring maps just for money to begin with then you are doing it wrong. if you need money, dont anchor.

back in my day we anchored for free. entitled kids these days

WOW, lmao!!!!! if anyone wants to know what guild it is/was … just look up ^ the names.
Cant you handle people giving thier opinions?
You wanted to know others opinions and begged me to make a post… I did.
I am not upset at all… all good.
Just trying to get others opinions is all

Blacksarevok …. I totally agree.

*[Vial of Salt]

Impretty.7509:

Blacksarevok …. I totally agree.

so then why make this thread? if you dont care about the money then why is a flat rate + the excess going to the bank an issue?

Like the people giving thier opinions here, I found out that that guild was not for me. The actions of some could give the guild a bad name, or a bad taste to those thinking about joining.
I have no rage against the comms, or people in your guild… just with one individual in the guild, but thats all it takes.
When said person, messages me for hours about making a thread, I made one hoping he would stop! He hasnt, and is FULL of this rage you speak of.
One bad apple can ruin the bunch

Blacksarevok…. I was messaged for hours in game. He “knew” he was right and wanted me to make a post to get others opinions, to prove he was correct….
Thats why the thread

If you feel that you are being harassed by someone in game you should take that up with Anet.

Impretty.7509:

Blacksarevok…. I was messaged for hours in game. He “knew” he was right and wanted me to make a post to get others opinions, to prove he was correct….
Thats why the thread

if you were harassed then contact anet in game or via email and they will review the chat log

this doesnt need to be a thread

Blacksarevok.8104:

back in my day we anchored for free. entitled kids these days

you mean a month ago?

Organizing multi-loot and anchoring comes with extra stresses (as evidenced by some of the posts in this very thread: people looking to make money efficiently aren’t always patient about it). I understand the leader and anchors wanting tips for the extra effort they contribute: in effect, everyone is leeching off the good will of those folks.

I can even understand the commander thinking it’s a good idea to have everyone share and distribute a flat rate. That is, in fact, how a lot of restaurants organize tips for non-wait staff (e.g. those that buss tables, wash dishes, prep, etc): everyone pools a portion of the tips and the manager distributes them.

As long as that process is open and everyone can see where the money goes, I see no problem. One run generates 150 shekels and then next 50 — be nice if both sets of anchors get paid the same 100 for doing the same work (again, assuming one agrees that tipping is a good idea).

On the other hand, that system seems ripe for abuse and a good way to generate arguments and drama (again, as evidenced in this very thread).

In short, if I were friends with the commander, I’d say: you know, everyone would probably be just as happy to not have to worry about who gets what for tips. Be easier on you, too.

And for the OP I’d say: you did the right thing dropping. No sense in making things more complicated for a little extra gold.

I’m the Comm in question in this post. I have to say you did pretty well shifting your story to your side. Here are the guild’s rules when it comes to tipping and anchoring, which I hope will clear up some issues. Everyone in our guild knows these rules and we try to ensure when we open up to non-guild members these rules are stated multiple times.

1. If you wish to VOLUNTEER to anchor a map you are paid a set amount of 6g. You are paid this gold no matter how many tips are received
2. Tipping is completely VOLUNTARY. We ask donations for our anchors so we as a guild do not have to reach into our guild bank as often.
3. Tips are to be put into the guild bank or given to commander of the squad via mail if you’re not part of the guild and still wish to donate, whom is delivering the 6g to each anchor.
4. If a map is locked it is anchored please don’t try to switch to it.
5. Run between chests on unanchored maps
6. If map failed please leave and enjoy looting (This discourages giving 6g to people who try to fail a map deliberately)

These are the rules that our guild follows. Most of the time anchors are people from guild who do it for free because we wish for our guild members to have an easier looting experience. I will admit when you anchored you were not told you were only going to be paid 6g. Surprisingly the major problem you had with me is that all tips from that run should be split. In our run we only received 6g total from 50 people (Another surprise not everyone donates all the time hence why extra goes to guild bank). I still sent you and two other anchors 6g from tips and 6g each from my personal pocket (not guild bank) for your troubles. I’ve tried explaining to you multiple times anchoring and tipping are completely VOLUNTARY. Does this sound like something where I make money? No.

You were very rude when I was trying to explain this to you by you resorting to calling me names and threatening me. I was never called you one name and only asked to see your post cause you said people were making fun of me in it since you supposedly wrote a review on a different account 3 hours before this one (surprise you didn’t). You are very immature and am surprised you were able to make a post in a reasonable manner. I have chat logs of all this. So please stop harassing ME by calling me names to me and my other guild members. I have already reported you for verbal abuse from what you have said. I hope everyone reads this far down your post so they can see that you twist words to your favor in a matter that should’ve been resolved without such an immature attitude.

A better sujestion would to be block them… correct?
With the 3 people saying the same thing with contacting Anet… one could assume that they are in the guild in question… which was not mentioned.
You are CORRECT!!! this does not need to be a thread.
Was not my idea…

To KRNelson:
Like I said in game… you dont know the whole story, just the twisted one.
Sorry he is misleading you

Who to trust? The random pug that joined and quit the guild in an afternoon, then fled to forum to qq. Or the guildie that has been helping run smooth af AB runs for the past couple of months?

Yomikoko… I never threatened you, and only “called you names” to ask you to quit messaging.
You are correct in that you never explained the rules before I joined. I wanted to “help” not get paid. In fact, I sent you your “6g” back… The rules are easy to follow. My problem with the run was that you weren’t even going to send me 6g because you thought I was a “volunteering pug” as you stated.
“I already sent it”, “you didnt get”…..
It is 6g?!?!? … omg, its NOTHING!!

QQ on the forum about YOUR guild… was his idea.

Hater’s gonna hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM

I’ve been running and commanding AB meta for long time now and yes mistakes happen. I thought I sent you the 6g when I accidentally sent it to someone else. In the end I said I was sorry and sent you 6g with a message, which is part of the guilds guidelines. I lost 6g from messaging the wrong person and I accepted that loss as my own rather than the guilds.

You have called me multiple names that I dare not repeat just because they are not only extremely hurtful and juvenile but would probably count as verbal abuse towards you. The forum was not my idea because you stated “Im going to put this on the forum and show everyone what you are” (put in a less vulgar way btw). I never use the forum and rather go to Reddit. You however, use the forum to explain issues as you have had before.

And I never “harassed” you. I asked for a link and you said you were busy.
I said “ok I will ask in a little while.”
“ok” you said back
“May I have that link now” I asked 1 hour later
Stop accusing me and trying to make me look bad when you refuse to hold a mirror to yourself a realize you are the real problem.

Even when you joined the guild for the shortime that it was we all welcomed you and after you realized anchors were only paid 6g you said bye then left. I’m sorry you had a horrible experience with me and don’t understand rules, how to be polite, and most of all understand that we all are indeed human and make mistakes.

Anet added the block and report features for a reason. If you think you are being verbally harassed you should block the person and report to Anet. Take a screen shot of the chat log when submitting the report and Anet should have a copy of chat logs for them to review as well.

I’m not taking sides here either. If you are being harassed report it. If our guildie is actually harassing then Anet will take care of it.

I don’t know the full extent of this incident, but I am a leader of [AB] and created this anchoring system.

After April 19, Multi-map became a thing because octovine meta became so popular. Often, people would loot a few maps and then run out of maps/toons and just hold a map for us; ‘volunteer anchoring’ this was known as. Sooner or later, others began to do it from the start of octovines out of the goodness of their hearts.
As a guild, we agreed to donate to them for sacrificing loot to hold maps, and keep our squads completely tidy and easy to use. At the end of each octovine run, I would ask in guild and squad chat, ‘We are accepting donations to give to anchors for sacrificing their loot to hold maps for us’, and many people would send gold. I would put all the donated gold, plus a few extra of my own into the guild bank every time we had anchors. Then when it was time to pay them, I would withdraw it and evenly distribute to each anchor.

Over experiments, and calculating an average on donations, I applied this system for all my officers to use when they lead squads in the off hours. 6g per anchor was the general idea. For half time anchors, 3g, including if the map fails because their map is invalid and the process is cancelled from 20 past, and they are free to loot.
If we have more than 5 anchors, 5g each. If there’s only 1, 10g for that person.

The donations are not forced or pressured on AT ALL. It is entirely voluntary and I constantly mention so. People are aware you can make 20-30g per run, but if they don’t feel like doing the whole thing they’ll just afk and anchor a map, have a relax and come back to 6g in the mail, which I do not have a problem with.
I train my guildies the most efficient methods in making money from octovine, they all know that anchoring gives less money but they do it anyway because they want to help. We donate them because we respect them for the respect they show us.

I mark my anchors with ‘Share Squad Participation’ so it has that little icon next to their name, and when they move out of a locked map because it failed, I can still see who they are. We’ve reviewed these methods and this is the most efficient system we have come up with.

Lately, I’ve been thinking; since all our maps get anchored, and we have plenty of spots in our squads, why not let pugs join as well? It will help find more people who want to join our guild, as well as give 20 pugs a great time, of course closing the squad when population hits 40-45 in reserve for guildies.
This is the Auric Basinist system.

Now to the one causing commotion, I am not familiar with the details, but if you’re going to judge on our anchor fundraisers, here are some questions you need to answer first.

1. Have you ever anchored a map for us?
2. Have you ever donated a single cent for anchors?
3. Is it fair for someone sacrificing half of their loot, to get the same consideration as someone sacrificing all of theirs?
4. Why post on the forum, rather than consult with the guild leader (me), or the any of the other officers, or at least discuss in guild chat?

Regards, Henrik ‘Sakura’ of [AB].

People tend to like anchored multi-maps. It’s nice help out pugs so they don’t have to deal with “ENFORCED LOBBY” multi-map squads advertised on LFG that have kick-happy commanders and lieutenants.

Henrik… very well said.
I will start off by answering your questions.
1. Yes, I have anchored maps for your guild. As a pug, and a guildy.
2. Yes I have, and will continue to donate.
3. ?? Yes ?? everyone should have consideration for others, regardless of loot
4. I “ONLY” posted on the forum after several hours of being “dared” too by someone in your guild.

I am not judging you on your AB fundraiser, .. In fact, I think this is how the AB MM should be run (which I told your officer). That person was spamming in /map for volunteers to anchor. I spoke to a pug that ended up anchoring for AB. They were not compensated at all, even after asking (they anchored the entire time). Is this AB policy?
Are they acting on your behalf?

Wondering if this was the norm, and wanting to see for myself, I joined the guild. I ran as an achor for the next run. After the run, I recieved no mail, so I spoke up. After 10 mins of listening to his banter of “I sent you gold”, blah blah, excuse excuse… he did end up mailing me 6g. It was a one sided convo on his part… all I asked was, “no tips”?

After recieving the 6g (O.o) I asked one of the pug anchors he had /map spammed for if they received any compensation. They had not recieved any. Shouldn’t everyone have consideration for others, like you speak of?

The whole run was littered with quotes of “ENFORCED LOBBY” and “kick-happy comms” in order for the pugs running to “Tip the commander” which was also spammed alot through the run.
Tipping IS voluntary, but also felt mandatoy (I received many messages from ppl as an anchor for AB). Maybe you dont run groups like this, but it does reflect bad on your behalf, your guild, when someone from the guild does.

Like the people that have responded to this thread, that ARENT in your guild… it left a bad taste in my mouth, and I left the guild. After leaving, I stated that I think everyone envolved in anchoring/commanding should get a split share of the tips..
Like in the Restraunt scenario… the waitresses share tips, along with everone participating. The Restraunt doesnt use tips as revenue.
The waitress gets thier share (what they earned) that night, not when the restraunt sees fit to pay. And it seems like your manager is dipping into the till, at the cost of anyone he can.

Nothing was ever explained prior to the run.
I do understand what your doing.. but the person speaking on your behalf, does not shed a good light on you, or your guild.

Again, I do think that an anchored map system is the way AB MM should be ran, I just hope that you surround yourself with trustworthy people that will build your guild up, not drag it down… over something as little as 6g. omfg!!?!?! (which I sent it back to him, I dont want any part of being involved with AB.

As a part of a BIG guild, I know how it is, and I am sorry you have/had to deal with this non sense.

It could go either way. It could be the guild leader is being completely fair and honest and the amount given to the anchors is actually a significant part of what they’re given (after all how many people actually give a tip and how much do they give?)

It could also be that the leader is pocketing the vast majority of the gold. There isn’t really an easy way to tell.

But regardless of whether it’s fair or not it’s not actually against any rules. IMO one of the best and worst things in this game is that guilds are largely unregulated by Anet. With a few exceptions most guilds are free to make up their own rules and the only thing keeping them fair is that members are free to leave at any point and presumably no one is going to stay in a guild they think is unfair.

In theory you could start a guild where every member must “donate” 50g a day to the leader or be kicked, and the leader can do whatever they want with the money, like buy things for their own account, send it to their kid brother who will spend it all on exotics and then decide he wants different stats and delete them…whatever.

The only thing stopping you is that no sane person would join a guild like that, unless you were somehow able to offer some major benefits to offset the cost, which sounds unlikely.

In other words it’s not worth worrying about whether the system they have in place is fair or not. If you don’t like it you leave and find a new guild, if you’re happy with it you stay.

Considering that [AB] has been around since April and people are willing to donate their time and gold to helping out other guildies, I’d say we’re doing something right.

There are many possibilities. I only command octovines twice a day depended on how busy I am. Yes, it is possible people may pocket the money. I certainly don’t have any benefit from doing so, the rest goes to guild stash. The people I have given authority to this permission are those who are well trusted and been serving the guild for a long time now, demonstrating legitimate leadership and contribution. [AB] was first formed in early April, discovering vast and new interesting methods to make the guild happy, richer and a better place for everyone.

Often there is not enough gold directly mailed to those collecting donations. Which means, those distributing to the anchors have to mail out their own pocket money to complete the require amount. Ymikoko mails the anchors evenly, I have witnessed it myself. If people are not paid the correct amount, you kindly whisper the distributor, if they do not respond or agree, you whisper the guild leader >Henrik.7560< and they will deal with it. I do my best to run this guild in the spare time I have, and with the help of my officers, it’s quite successful.

Appologies you had a bad time with [AB]. If you have a problem, speak to me before causing a scene in public.

Regards, Henrik ‘Sakura’ of [AB].

Henrik…. I totally agree with talking to you first, rather then create a scene. No one wants bad light shed. Again I will state that I didnt want to post this thread. Your officer was poking a sleeping bear, so to speak.
Not only is that person shining a bad light on [AB] in game, they are the one that wanted this posted onto the forums.
Thier “all mighty” attitude said and I quote “you will get kitten on, because I am right”.
You also state that “Yes it is possible that people may pocket the money” …..
Isn’t that against your guilds AB “rules”?
With rule breaking, going against what you have tought, and shedding unnessesary bad light and ill will towards you guild…. this is who you want to represent you?

I hope this thread dies… and quickly. It was never my intent, and refrained from pointing the finger. I just hope that your people… I cant say “your people” because others I had talked to seemed like nice people, they were just caught up in backing up a guildy in the wrong situation…… I hope that the certain individual thinks of the guild before himself sometime.
People like that will ultimately in the end, wreck it for all.

My apologies to you back… not for anything I have done, but that this happened.
Please speak to “whoever” and inform them that “the forums” isnt the place to air out laundry.

[Looks like this discussion has come full circle. This thread is now closed. Thanks!]