Guild Wars 2

15 = 1
30 = 2
300 = 20… (you already lost 10% just from traiting what about the gear?)

To be honest, we’ve known this was going to happen for months now. There’s nothing surprising about it, but at least now we know how many points of ferocity = 1% of crit damage.

“We decided that our boring big-sack-of-hit-points bosses went down too quickly so what we decided to do for the community is to reduce everyone’s damage so that boss fights are longer and more tedious.”

- Anet

nicknamenick.2437:

Jski.6180:

Fenrir.3609:

Jski.6180:

Can i have your gold? Crit dmg was too much this will not comply fix it but its a good start.

A good start for what exactly, having cheesy condi bunkers everywhere?

In what setting? (mind you the main post that from is from an “I quit” post so i responded in kind.) Spvp is not changing wvw already was like that so still no changes and pve never had that it would be a nice chose for ppl to try out though i do not think it will work all that well.

do you really believe this doesn’t affect wvw also? where all zerkers builds build around full damage and zero defensive stats losing 30% crit damage is not a big deal?

REally??

where you can still build around with a simple dire stat combo going FULL defensive and still doing insane damage!

-30% crit damage is huge!

That the thing it was condition meta already so no it realty should not effect wvw at all because it was already that way in effect. WvW is not made to be a fair formant of combat its open field and nearly any thing goes. Its up to the players to exploited every thing that giving to them as best as they can if they chose not to then that is there chose but the other side should never be given less chose because of that.

Are you talking more from a GvG stand point? If so it will make the hammer tarn less effect at out putting dmg and cc you will have to make a chose when making your hammer tarn group. A thf / mez gank group still going to down ppl in a hart beat the eles will still do big aoe dmg with there staffs. You may see more necro but then you will see more hammers gurds to counter this with PF. That kind of the idea there are hard counters to every thing but crit dmg because it was the highest effect you could get in the game from your gear with out losing that much.

Jski.6180:

Fenrir.3609:

Jski.6180:

Can i have your gold? Crit dmg was too much this will not comply fix it but its a good start.

A good start for what exactly, having cheesy condi bunkers everywhere?

In what setting?

In every setting.

I try to sound neutral but in all honesty im trepidating at the change as it blurs the line between pure damage and damage hybrids who dont necesarily runs on critical hits. This makes all build who dont overely on critical hits in pve look better altrought i guess its at the detriment of the critical spammers.

It won’t change much. The reason berserker gear is mandatory for PvE content is not that it deals outstanding damage. The core game, including boss / mob AI, “stacking”, the “one hit or you are dead no matter what” mechanisms, everything together just doesn’t makes a NEED for other builds. 5 crit based players will always overcome any other party composition. Condition users are simply in a different league here, thanks to the cap on how much condition can be stacked on a target. They are out. Tanks? Who need a tank if most dungeon and bosses can be exploited via stacking or another way, those that are excluded (aetherpath endboss for example) will take down everyone the same 1 hit way, no matter if you are a tank or a papermade dps role in your party. Self sustain is always more important than supporting others – if you are dead, no you support noone. Since every class can achieve self sustain, there is no need for healers either. Yep, that’s what we used to call holy trinity, and it was entitled as holy for a good reason, IMHO. Guild Wars 2 choose to deny it by design, which I have nothing against – but reducing a specific build’s effectiveness for the sake of build diversity won’t change anything as long as the content we fight against requires no other builds. Everyone will keep going on with berserker for PvE, with a twist thanks to the new runes and traits. But that’s it. We told this to ANet countless times the moment they announced crit build changes, but they didn’t seem to listen. They’ll see it from the statistics anyway.

Blizzard used to do the same, took them a year of burning hate against them to realize balance is NEVER about hurting a build, but increasing the effectiveness of all the others to match in value, and rebalancing the PvE enviroment to match the new possible builds, creating a confortable enviroment that makes you feel like your build (if done well, no matter what purpose it serves) is viable and NEEDED as a part of a team. As long as there is no need for others, everyone will go berserk. Now it will take 10 more seconds to deal with the targets, that’s all.

wolfpaq.7354:

This is some of the most idiotic nerf reasoning I’ve ever heard.

“we’re going to nerf berserkers to encourage build diversity”

Yet they proceed to change NOTHING about condi damage / healing power / toughness. These stats will still be total garbage in PvE unless arenanet does something that will ACTUALLY encourage build diversity which they have proven incapable or unwilling to do.

When you start to understand that the dps meta is about the game mechanics, not stats, I will consider explaining for you how MMOs work.

kyubi.3620:

I try to sound neutral but in all honesty im trepidating at the change as it blurs the line between pure damage and damage hybrids who dont necesarily runs on critical hits. This makes all build who dont overely on critical hits in pve look better altrought i guess its at the detriment of the critical spammers.

There’s hardly a “damage hybrid who doesn’t run on critical hits”. As long as condition damage remain useless (from a PvE PoV), there are just 3 offensive stats and one of them, Power, is present in pretty much every stat combination while the other two are critical related.
Soldier/Berserker and Knight/Cavalier mixes could be considered hybrids; any build that doesn’t rely on critical hits is pretty much a defensive build (unless, idk, they go wildly into offense through runes and trait).

SaltyDave.7346:

reducing a specific build’s effectiveness for the sake of build diversity won’t change anything as long as the content we fight against requires no other builds.

Are you reading this, Anet?

Empowering those 3 other specialisation would only results into them becoming dangerous to the game balance itself (more heal = even stronguer bunkers, better dots = keep them even more as supremacy in pvp, thoughness couldnt be dealth with without making the game even easyer) , the only real way to make this right without messing the whole thing up would be to reinforce critical damage gain in spvp and weaken it in pve or create a totaly new stat. Sadly weakening it in pve also means killing it in WVW wich was somewhat unavoidable.

Lots of specialisation such as minion master/rangers (most of them)/enginers all run on multiple damage source wich may or may not depend on critical damage.

You say about zerker and stuff like traits…. I did the math – got full celestial ascended gear (which now i can just destroy or transmutate). With only this i’m gaining (6% buff) 28 point to all stats (wow nice), loosing 28% CRIT DMG. So much hybryd so useless wow. Let me change stats at least pls anet. Better just remove celestial from the game.

The players asking for balance changes, complaining about them simply don’t understand that how the game works ISN’T connected to how the stats are but what you do with the stats like the lovely person above explained properly.

Atm, there are option to build high tank/healing builds but for what? You gonna be 1-shot anyhow and neither healing or tanking will ever be useful.

The game is constructed that way and people were happy with how it was until they got bored and want balance changes which won’t help. Now, what is Anet doing? It is one of two, either they are willing to change the mechanics and pull the game more towards a soft holy trinity and therefore these changes are just there to intrduce something in the future or they basically just giving players what they want to make them shut up.

The result is one of two basically, either stay with an action-focused combat heavily focused on dodging and playing the game on your terms or pulling the game towards a less action-combat oriented, more holy-trinity focused enviourment. There will never come again that great diversity and yet not end up being holy trinity. Players won’t care about experimenting and playing for fun becasue they never do, they will just go with tanks, healers and dps’s and we don’t need to see someone dodge ever again.

panzer.6034:

SaltyDave.7346:

reducing a specific build’s effectiveness for the sake of build diversity won’t change anything as long as the content we fight against requires no other builds.

Are you reading this, Anet?

It dose up diversity with out just simply making mobs so easy to kill that you just need to look at them and die. That would happen if they buffed condition dmg it would of made the game simply too easy. Its best to make crit dmg on the level of condition dmg for build diversity with out comply making the game super easy mode.

Jski.6180:

panzer.6034:

SaltyDave.7346:

reducing a specific build’s effectiveness for the sake of build diversity won’t change anything as long as the content we fight against requires no other builds.

Are you reading this, Anet?

It dose up diversity with out just simply making mobs so easy to kill that you just need to look at them and die. That would happen if they buffed condition dmg it would of made the game simply too easy. Its best to make crit dmg on the level of condition dmg for build diversity with out comply making the game super easy mode.

This is never about diversity…

Non zerk groups can and do run all the dungeon content each and every day. It is safe to say that here are far more non zerk groups going through them right at this very moment, than there are full zerk, experienced, speedruns.

There are videos of people no dodge, facetanking Arah P2. There are videos of clerics users semi afking and 1 spamming to death dungeon bosses.

This is about lolfacetanks and heal spammers crying about the fact that they are not part of the speedrun meta and that certain PUGs don’t want them. Funnily enough, this nerf will do nothing to change that at all.

If the people in PVT and clerics, or condi spammers are so concerned about diversity, why are they not on here asking for self nerfs due to their dominance in wvw and spvp?

Condi bunkers everywhere, what a gloriously diverse future we will have!

Fenrir.3609:

Jski.6180:

panzer.6034:

SaltyDave.7346:

reducing a specific build’s effectiveness for the sake of build diversity won’t change anything as long as the content we fight against requires no other builds.

Are you reading this, Anet?

It dose up diversity with out just simply making mobs so easy to kill that you just need to look at them and die. That would happen if they buffed condition dmg it would of made the game simply too easy. Its best to make crit dmg on the level of condition dmg for build diversity with out comply making the game super easy mode.

This is never about diversity…

Non zerk groups can and do run all the dungeon content each and every day. It is safe to say that here are far more non zerk groups going through them right at this very moment, than there are full zerk, experienced, speedruns.

There are videos of people no dodge, facetanking Arah P2. There are videos of clerics users semi afking and 1 spamming to death dungeon bosses.

This is about lolfacetanks and heal spammers crying about the fact that they are not part of the speedrun meta and that certain PUGs don’t want them. Funnily enough, this nerf will do nothing to change that at all.

If the people in PVT and clerics, or condi spammers are so concerned about diversity, why are they not on here asking for self nerfs due to their dominance in wvw and spvp?

Because going all in zerk and being zerk only is promoting build diversity right? Please ppl CAN do a lot of things but they tend to want to do the BEST thing by bring down the best way of doing things allows for other ways for doing things to start to seem better. Crit dmg still is the king but now it “seems” to be weaker giving room to other builds and ideals for running pve. Its called perfidy imbalanced.

Jski.6180:

Because going all in zerk and being zerk only is promoting build diversity right? Please ppl CAN do a lot of things but they tend to want to do the BEST thing by bring down the best way of doing things allows for other ways for doing things to start to seem better. Crit dmg still is the king but now it “seems” to be weaker giving room to other builds and ideals for running pve. Its called perfidy imbalanced.

You know that “best” by definition can only include one thing? You can’t have 2 completely different playstyles being the best.

wolfpaq.7354:

This is some of the most idiotic nerf reasoning I’ve ever heard.

“we’re going to nerf berserkers to encourage build diversity”

Yet they proceed to change NOTHING about condi damage / healing power / toughness. These stats will still be total garbage in PvE unless arenanet does something that will ACTUALLY encourage build diversity which they have proven incapable or unwilling to do.

Mmm… it’s both. By now you should know that Anet only know how to nerf stuff into the ground. It’s the only thing they’re good at.

“Balance” for them doesn’t entail build diversity. Improving something requires too much thought, and is destined for the too-hard basket. We’re gonna sock you a bunch of crit so you’ll go for something else that is weaker. This isn’t balance, this is nerfed-out garbage.

haviz.1340:

Jski.6180:

Because going all in zerk and being zerk only is promoting build diversity right? Please ppl CAN do a lot of things but they tend to want to do the BEST thing by bring down the best way of doing things allows for other ways for doing things to start to seem better. Crit dmg still is the king but now it “seems” to be weaker giving room to other builds and ideals for running pve. Its called perfidy imbalanced.

You know that “best” by definition can only include one thing? You can’t have 2 completely different playstyles being the best.

I get that but your making the “best” way of doing something seem weaker giving room for other ways to go about doing things.

haviz.1340:

You know that “best” by definition can only include one thing? You can’t have 2 completely different playstyles being the best.

But you can close the gap between 1st and 2nd place.

Some sports they actually have to track down to the 100th of a second because differences in performance are just that tight .

nicknamenick.2437:

Rudy.6184:

You say about zerker and stuff like traits…. I did the math – got full celestial ascended gear (which now i can just destroy or transmutate). With only this i’m gaining (6% buff) 28 point to all stats (wow nice), loosing 28% CRIT DMG. So much hybryd so useless wow. Let me change stats at least pls anet. Better just remove celestial from the game.

now see and get a FULL zerker set and you will lose 30% crit damage..
Talking about ZERKER stats.. NO DEFENSIVE stats.

This just promotes more condi bunker builds in YES also wvw (think about roaming, 1vs1 situations or even small groups..)

Ok i thought it would be less (like they said around 10%), but it is 21% less critical dmg on full zerker set (not 30%). Still very big impact on the game – clearly not 10% less dmg in auto criting builds (or almost auto) builds. I only hope they nerf condi bunkers too (as they said erlier). Now best set on wvw will be soldier/knight/condi.

Nike.2631:

But you can close the gap between 1st and 2nd place.

Some sports they actually have to track down to the 100th of a second because differences in performance are just that tight .

You can close the gap but people still might complain.

When do people not complain?

But good players adapt.

Nike.2631:

When do people not complain?

But good players adapt.

So you are saying that anyone that didn’t adapt to the dps meta before this announcement is bad?

I would agree.

Indeed – you play the game that IS. Right now the dungeons game is very much Berserker friendly… and still will be.

So many people bad at math and raging without knowing anything.
Ascended armor gives 235 points in their minor stats, now we know that 15 ferocity = 1% crit damage, so 235/15 = 15.6, currently we get 16% crit damage with asc armor.

Ascended trinkets gives in total 268 points as minor bonus, 268/15 = 17.8, currently we can get 20% crit damage.

Ascended weapon gives 128 points in the minor stats, 128/15 = 8.53, currently we get 10%

Resuming:
After the update we can get 235 + 268 + 128 = 631 ferocity = 42% crit damage
Before the update we can get 16 + 20 + 10 = 46% crit damage

That is a difference of 4% crit damage from ascended gear … and you guys are saying it is a “HUGE nerf” ?

Ferocity design meeting:

“Why does everybody use offensive instead of defensive gear in dungeons?”

“Because every single boss in the game relies on one shot mechanics that are so spaced out they always have an evade on hand to dodge it”

“So why does nobody use condition builds?”

“Because we put arbitrary restrictions on condition builds in PvE for no reason”

“So how do we fix this?”

“More varied boss mechanics, e.g. faster hits for less damage and removing/reworking the restrictions on condition damage”

“Nerf crit damge but keep it top in terms of damage so the only change that is mad is that it takes longer to plow through our damage sponge bosses, you say? Brilliant!”

panzer.6034:

“We decided that our boring big-sack-of-hit-points bosses went down too quickly so what we decided to do for the community is to reduce everyone’s damage so that boss fights are longer and more tedious.”

- Anet

Can’t wait to kill Maw with 100 clerics. That is going to be glorious -_-

Also, I can’t wait for the next super champ immune to conditions . Maybe another “kill under 6 minutes” achievement (easily done with clerics ans soldiers of course).

I like those changes. As a fully casual player I will now be able pay less attention when running my healer elementalist thanks to more healing efficiency. Water autoattack with staff can now heal for about 1100 hp. Lovely!

Belzebu.3912:

So many people bad at math and raging without knowing anything.
Ascended armor gives 235 points in their minor stats, now we know that 15 ferocity = 1% crit damage, so 235/15 = 15.6, currently we get 16% crit damage with asc armor.

Ascended trinkets gives in total 268 points as minor bonus, 268/15 = 17.8, currently we can get 20% crit damage.

Ascended weapon gives 128 points in the minor stats, 128/15 = 8.53, currently we get 10%

Resuming:
After the update we can get 235 + 268 + 128 = 631 ferocity = 42% crit damage
Before the update we can get 16 + 20 + 10 = 46% crit damage

That is a difference of 4% crit damage from ascended gear … and you guys are saying it is a “HUGE nerf” ?

wut?? 46%? wut? On full set you now have 71%, on celestial 61%, after patch you’ll have 50 % (745 minor points) on zerk and 33% (500 points) on celestial. http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ type it here and see it

This nerf will just make dungeon groups more hostile towards non beserker builds. As they will be struggling to complete the dungeon efficiently, they will no longer be able to afford a player who is not giving the required damage.

The alternative is that dungeon speed groups simply collapse and then dungeons will be so tedious as to be not worth entering.

The laugher in all this is the change is being made ‘so the stat is easier to understand.’ Instead of a straight percentage, which anyone with a 4th grade education can quickly calculate, they are changing it to a fictitious value, which both the game engine and you and I have to convert back to a percentage to understand. I’m not sure how this is in concert with the rest of the sweeping “simplifying” changes that are about to be made.

Just say, “We are reducing critical damage to curb the abundance of berserker builds”. Practice in front of a mirror if necessary.

With this change, yes only time of doing dungeon will change in terms of pve. Look at the wvw side, where for example take thief vs guardian. After patch thief will be dying on his defence and retaliation. Or take any other build which is about to burst something (scepter ele, gs/rifle warrior, shortbow ranger, shaterring mesmer, axe warrior). With this change duels / small fights are going to be long and more about sustain; burst spec can desappear. On the other hand it can add this diversity in wvw, but i’m not sure if it can be done with a single patch, which is in the middle of tournament.

Yeah, my only problem with this patch is as others have said, bunkers become even more powerful to all builds with critical damage in them. Pvp will be a nightmare against bunkers, absolute and truly a bad move to let it spill into pvp like that. PvE is fine.

Rudy.6184:

wut?? 46%? wut? On full set you now have 71%, on celestial 61%, after patch you’ll have 50 % (745 minor points) on zerk and 33% (500 points) on celestial. http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ type it here and see it

I’m not counting traits or foods.
EDIT: I ended counting trinkets with exotic … my bad.