Guild Wars 2

Azure.8670:

good nerf. champ farming is corny but effective. looks like world events might actually get done now

Why would they? They were nerfed already, hence the champ trains.

aliksyian.7642:

I never did champ trains because they seem boring, and I try not to spend hours doing boring kitten so I can get some external reward. I’m okay with them nerfing champ trains.

If nerfing champion rewards means people who only play to farm leave, and people who want actual content stay, maybe the game will be better off.

Except we’re right back at the original champ problem. Not worth the kittening time to kill. So they wont be. Which is why they were buffed in the first kittening place. So people would bother with them.

rizzo.1079:

Zerole.7306:

Champions died regularly long before the champ bags were introduced.

Not really…

No. No there weren’t. That’s why they increased the rewards for them. That’s why all the waypoints they close were NEVER open. Hell, Nageling may as well not even have one. Tho that is a pop issue now more then loot. Well, it was. Now it wont be worth the bother even if the numbers are in map.

Again.

GoldenTruth.2853:

Malediktus.9250:

Good change, champion loot is still more than generous for the effort it takes to do them.

2nd this.

They should have posted the changes, but for how mindless and non-risky champ farming is they were right to lower the rewards.

As opposed to those risk filled trash mobs running solo.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

While it is unfortunate some people have lost something they enjoyed doing, the easiest thing to do in the game should not be the most profitable. It’s bad game design and truthfully should have been nerfed much sooner.
There is also the issue with Frostgorge Sound specifically when they redo Claw of Jormag the same way as Tequatl. If you can’t even get into the map due to a champ train how are you going to get enough people to do the revamped event?

Don’t worry. You’ll have no more problem getting into Frostgorge to do the “imporved” Claw, then you do now getting into Sparkfly Fen. IE: Ignored after they kitten that event up too.

Azure Prower.8701:

John Smith.4610:

Hello all, I looked into this because we intended to have a release note for the changes to the champion loot.
We did modify the gold and bloodstone dust coming from champion bags, and a release note will be added shortly.
What I can tell you is that we made a mistake, this one fell through the cracks and I’m truly sorry. I’ve promised before that we won’t make stealthy economic changes without notes and I mean to stick to that promise.
Thank you all for pointing out the error, we will be more vigilant in the future.
Good luck in your adventures.

Whilst very noble of you to come out and apologize. It’s stuff like this that hampers player trust in your company to keep their word and fulfill promises. Thus we as players expect it’s going to happen again and ‘conspiracy theories’ with finger pointing will run wild in result.

Noble? It’s about as noble as yet another apology from a politician for the umpteenth repeat of the same offense. This “sorry, oops we forgot” has been going on for a year. So it’s either ‘their style’ or their incompetence. Pick one, but noble, it ain’t.

haviz.1340:

Bright.9160:

If it takes 0 skill, why don’t you do it?

Also, oh the irony… A champ train farmer complaining that dungeon running takes 0 skill. It’s almost painfully ironic…

You realize you have been showered with gold for 0 skill for months now, right?

I still don’t get why they are still playing. Pressing 1 gets boring eventually, at least for me.

Playing the same kitten DE for a silver gets boring…… and doesn’t take much more then 1 either.

Huck.1405:

John Smith.4610:

Hello all, I looked into this because we intended to have a release note for the changes to the champion loot.
We did modify the gold and bloodstone dust coming from champion bags, and a release note will be added shortly.
What I can tell you is that we made a mistake, this one fell through the cracks and I’m truly sorry. I’ve promised before that we won’t make stealthy economic changes without notes and I mean to stick to that promise.
Thank you all for pointing out the error, we will be more vigilant in the future.
Good luck in your adventures.

Can we quote you on this after the next stealthy economic change?

Only if you screenshot it for later. Otherwise, well, you know they like deleting posts they don’t like. Like the videos of the AP abuse that went on in WvW in ruins and kitten.

Beldin.5498:

Qaelyn.7612:

Why should something that is simple, fast and has no risk provide top-notch rewards?

Because a game should be fun and not actually work ?

I know that concept is hard to get for some.

Brain bendingly difficult.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

GW2 isn’t supposed to be about grinding or farming, so this change is a positive step to help move away from that.

If it isn’t supposed to be about grind and farm, then they shouldn’t have put in time gated crafting, nor recipes that require a hundred or more of A item to craft ONE item of, never mind a kittening set. Times how ever many alts you have the temerity to roll.

THEY created the grind. THEY created the REQUIREMENT to farm to feed it. THEM. WE don’t have access to the code.

Some players wanted vertical progression in items. So the devs caved but threw a time gate on them saying “Hey, you want them then grind for them. And if you don’t like grinding, maybe you should rethink your position on wanting vertical progression, hmm.”

Bright.9160:

When we’re doing it, it’s not really a risk, because we usually burn it down before it can get more than 2 or 3 hits in, and those are usually negated by our Guardian’s Aegis. In PUG groups however, this fight is not as easy as it looks, because their DPS is usually a lot lower, and they have the risk of taking too many hits and get downed.

Now, let’s forget about this Spider Queen fight all together for a second. You still haven’t answered my question, although I’ve asked it 3 times now.

In general, no fight in particular, do you feel that if you stack in melee so that a boss does not use a hard-hitting ranged attack an exploit?

1) PUG groups may be weaker in the terms of dmg, but they must be completely dumb to get killed by the queen when stacking. (aka they deserve to die)

2) make the boss not-using an ability is different from avoiding that ability, and that’s the difference between tactical positioning and exploiting a badly designed AI. (Queen does not use her AOE at all when LoSed + melee stacked, however Lupicus still uses his melee attack, if he manage to get to melee range – he obviously won’t use it to hit air, but that ability is not disabled by kiting him from range. Is that clear enough? Also, kiting a boss to keep him from reaching melee is kinda different to just stand in a stack and faceroll a boss to death….

STRanger.5120:

2) make the boss not-using an ability is different from avoiding that ability, and that’s the difference between tactical positioning and exploiting a badly designed AI. (Queen does not use her AOE at all when LoSed + melee stacked, however Lupicus still uses his melee attack, if he manage to get to melee range – he obviously won’t use it to hit air, but that ability is not disabled by kiting him from range. Is that clear enough? Also, kiting a boss to keep him from reaching melee is kinda different to just stand in a stack and faceroll a boss to death….

Kiting at range also makes foes not use their melee abilities.

Also, rushing up to a foe so he doesn’t use a ranged attack is just as much tactical positioning as staying at range. For example, if you’re confronted with an archer with a bow and a knife (the bow obviously being the more dangerous one), and you rush up to him, the archer would be foolish to keep using his bow when confronted with your melee weapon.

You’re just using special pleading to say ‘well, kiting at range is just different’, you have not given me a logical reason why it’s different.

Bright.9160:

STRanger.5120:

2) make the boss not-using an ability is different from avoiding that ability, and that’s the difference between tactical positioning and exploiting a badly designed AI. (Queen does not use her AOE at all when LoSed + melee stacked, however Lupicus still uses his melee attack, if he manage to get to melee range – he obviously won’t use it to hit air, but that ability is not disabled by kiting him from range. Is that clear enough? Also, kiting a boss to keep him from reaching melee is kinda different to just stand in a stack and faceroll a boss to death….

Kiting at range also makes foes not use their melee abilities.

Also, rushing up to a foe so he doesn’t use a ranged attack is just as much tactical positioning as staying at range. For example, if you’re confronted with an archer with a bow and a knife (the bow obviously being the more dangerous one), and you rush up to him, the archer would be foolish to keep using his bow when confronted with your melee weapon.

You’re just using special pleading to say ‘well, kiting at range is just different’, you have not given me a logical reason why it’s different.

Ok, let me explain this again:

1) There is difference between avoiding and disabling the ability to.
2) Where is your source of the fact that Spider Queens AOE poison is a ranged-only ability? It’s like you said that when I’m playing a Staff Elementalist, I can’t use my Lava Font when in melee range…. And that’s just nonsense….

Conclusion?
Spider Queen not using her AOE poison is a flaw in the AI, which can be exploited easily to make the fight significantly easier, to the point that 4 of 5 party members can just AFK-autoattack her, while one Ele/Guardian just casting AOE condition removal + heals and the group will survive and profit.

Try to do this on the Lupicus, we’ll see how it goes….

Edit: About that archer of yours, I haven’t met such a mythical intelligent creature in GW2 so far….
Even players usually don’t care, because some of them have this:http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Point_Blank_Shot, and the rest knows that there is no difference in damage received while holding a ranged weapon in comparison to melee weapon, they just use what suits them/their build the best.

STRanger.5120:

Ok, let me explain this again:

1) There is difference between avoiding and disabling the ability to.
2) Where is your source of the fact that Spider Queens AOE poison is a ranged-only ability? It’s like you said that when I’m playing a Staff Elementalist, I can’t use my Lava Font when in melee range…. And that’s just nonsense….

Conclusion?
Spider Queen not using her AOE poison is a flaw in the AI, which can be exploited easily to make the fight significantly easier, to the point that 4 of 5 party members can just AFK-autoattack her, while one Ele/Guardian just casting AOE condition removal + heals and the group will survive and profit.

Try to do this on the Lupicus, we’ll see how it goes….

If you’re at range you’re also tricking the AI into not using it’s melee attack, just like you trick the AC Spider Queen into not using her ranged attack when in melee. And yes, I realize this is different for players, but it makes sense design wise to do so.

What is my source that her poison attack is ranged only? The fact that she only uses it when people are at range?

Also, I can do the same thing you did at the end.

Conclusion?
Lupicus not using his kick is a flaw in the AI, which can be exploited easily to make phase 1 significantly easier, to the point that 4 of 5 party members can just AFK-autoattack him, while one guy just kills the grubs and the group will survive and profit.

Ranging Lupicus in phase 1 is confirmed an exploit.

Also, about that last bit..

Bright.9160:

STRanger.5120:

Ok, let me explain this again:

1) There is difference between avoiding and disabling the ability to.
2) Where is your source of the fact that Spider Queens AOE poison is a ranged-only ability? It’s like you said that when I’m playing a Staff Elementalist, I can’t use my Lava Font when in melee range…. And that’s just nonsense….

Conclusion?
Spider Queen not using her AOE poison is a flaw in the AI, which can be exploited easily to make the fight significantly easier, to the point that 4 of 5 party members can just AFK-autoattack her, while one Ele/Guardian just casting AOE condition removal + heals and the group will survive and profit.

Try to do this on the Lupicus, we’ll see how it goes….

If you’re at range you’re also tricking the AI into not using it’s melee attack, just like you trick the AC Spider Queen into not using her ranged attack when in melee. And yes, I realize this is different for players, but it makes sense design wise to do so.

What is my source that her poison attack is ranged only? The fact that she only uses it when people are at range?

Also, I can do the same thing you did at the end.

Conclusion?
Lupicus not using his kick is a flaw in the AI, which can be exploited easily to make phase 1 significantly easier, to the point that 4 of 5 party members can just AFK-autoattack him, while one guy just kills the grubs and the group will survive and profit.

Ranging Lupicus in phase 1 is confirmed an exploit.

Also, about that last bit..

Ok, just one more question to you. Do you know the difference between the words avoiding and denying the ability?
Because what are you saying here quite proves that you don’t, which is sad, but I can’t do anything to explain it more clearly to you…. sorry

My two cents bout the discussion wether or not champfarming is desirable or not.
I dont care!
Any MMO needs some kind of grind. (new and refreshing content cant be develloped as quick as players can play through it) In the CD thread devs have explained very clearly they have trouble finding a good reward system.

My issue and anger is not cause I’m claiming that champfarming is the best system. But it is a good enough system to cover TILL they find something better.

At the moment when it comes to owPvE (open world PvE) they are struggling very hard since launch to get a good reward system. So far every experiment they tried leaded to an undesriable effect and they nerfed it. Where other activity’s like dungeons and WvW got upgraded in rewards hugely. So they are using the owPvE community asa labrats. They should stop that and reverse things untill they figured their things out to do properly. Dont use the people to experiement. It is not unreasonable to call champfarming to easy for the reward. But it is also unreasonable to not give any good alternative owPvE reward. Some people dont like dungeons (and dont give me the crap that I’m a bad player, I got dungeon master, I just dont want to do more then 3 paths per day). So their should be a good alternative.

Too bad that Anet doesnt take the owPvE community serious and let John Smith slap us in the face like he did here without any proper more serious comment. I do see that you care, so step out to show it in here.

Sleel.8365:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

GW2 isn’t supposed to be about grinding or farming, so this change is a positive step to help move away from that.

If it isn’t supposed to be about grind and farm, then they shouldn’t have put in time gated crafting, nor recipes that require a hundred or more of A item to craft ONE item of, never mind a kittening set. Times how ever many alts you have the temerity to roll.

THEY created the grind. THEY created the REQUIREMENT to farm to feed it. THEM. WE don’t have access to the code.

People still don’t understand that the “no grind” thing was just about leveling and get maybe exotic gear, that was the best gear at release. And for that you really don’t have to grind.

Everything else is optional, only for the looks. But for that ANet created of course receipes that need so much stuff that you have of course to grind/farm if you want to get them. But Grind/Farm is needed in every MMO else you play it 2-3 months and have finished.

The only difference is the form of the grind. In other MMOs its mainly run Dungeon / Raid T1 1000 times to get Gear so that you can run Raid T2 1000 to get gear to run T3 1000 times .. and so on and so on ..

Here its more farm money to buy whatever you want .. since i don’t like raiding i still prefer that.

Well the best way to make money in this game is still to do dungeon speed runs.

cesmode.4257:

rizzo.1079:

Adam.4103:

Charak.9761:

So instead of buffing other methods of gold acquisition, they nerfed one of the viable options.

Great, back to TP flipping cause Anet doesn’t understand how proper rewards should be rewarded.

Why should mindless farming in a zerg reward people? If you want good money do dungeons.

Because I have more fun running with the zerg in FG than I do trying to memorize the unfun dungeons. Because the game is about fun, not making good money.

How is running with a zerg fun? Im really curious

Because I’m running around shooting fireballs at monsters with a whole bunch of other people…viola, fun!

rizzo.1079:

cesmode.4257:

How is running with a zerg fun? Im really curious

Because I’m running around shooting fireballs at monsters with a whole bunch of other people…viola, fun!

Great answer .. made my day

Much needed update for the game, thanks John.

Azure.8670:
“good nerf. champ farming is corny but effective. looks like world events might actually get done now”

Nope. I don’t get why people think this. Farmers, like myself when I’m in the mood, will move onto the next farm that is more profitable. If world events chain together fast enough to make it more profitable than to farm the FG, then yeah. I’ll hit the events.

At least make champs so hard that crappy random zerg can’t kill them.

Junkpile.7439:

At least make champs so hard that crappy random zerg can’t kill them.

Hard? No, Changed? Yes… at least one has a new skill and all have more HP, it looks like tonight.

I read all topic, and i so sad. Ppl what a u tolking about? Its good nerf, coz easy money not good for economy. And u think 7.3g per hour its too small reward for 11111 with Zerg?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/For-Science-Champ-Farming-7-3-gold-per-hour/first#post3139735
Champ farm after nerf. Man get 7.3 per hour with it.
Dungeon reward its to hight? Ok, lets see. For example, we get 5h for farm today. One man go to train, and other go to dungeon speed runs.
First hour train man get his 7.3g, nothing can happen, he cant fail, his Zerg cant be bad.
First hour dungeon man. Found exelent group, and run AC 1,3+CoF 1,2 without fails and earn something about 6-7 with champs bags, dung rewards,boss loot.
Ok they earn same amount of gold.
Second hour train man get his 7.3g
Second hour dungeon man with his amazing group done Arah p1 and HoTW p1 without fails and earn something about 5g
Third hour train man get his 7.3g
Third hour dungeon man with his remarkable group done Arah p2 and AC p2 and earn something about 5g
Fourth hour train man get his 7.3g
Fourth hour dungeon man cant earn more then 2-3g per with his group. And train man can get his 7.3g every hour till he die on his chair. And if dungeon man dont find good group he can earn much less then in example.
And ofc its dungeon man choice to do dungeons, and some ppl like farm champs, nothing bad in this, till dungeon man dont decides to buy some gems or skins in TP.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem
+100% for 1 mounth from 4g per 100 to 8g per 100, legendary prices reach 4 000g.
3 mounth ago dungeon man could buy 800 gems for 10 arah runs, now he need 20-25. U trains killing fun and game for all ppl who dont farm with zerg all day, and after few mounth its kill fun for u, coz u cant farm more then 24h per day, and prices will grow up till ppl can make guaranteed easy afk money.
Sorry for my bad English, but i think u understand my point.

7.3g is VERY generous as far as what can be made in an hour on the train. It’s more like 2-3g max generally.

Gem prices have been rising steadily at least for the year I’ve been playing. More gold is in the economy in general, meaning more people buying gems with gold and higher conversion rates. Nothing to do with the champ train, they’re inflating the economy on purpose and this is not a bad thing.

There is link on my post with 6 days statistic and screens. So some1 get this 7.3 per hour, if u know how to run 1 dungeon p more then 1 per day with bonus chest, tell me, i will run it
40 min for arah runs is not guaranteed, u can run it all day actualy and dont get anything at end, coz ragequits. And it a bit harder then 111 anyway.
When u buy gems its destroy u gold, u dont give it to man who sell gems for gold. So its must regular amount of gold in system. And prices start grow so fast after champs trains apper. ppl got toons of easy money, and easy money easy to spend.

Anapxist.5314:

There is link on my post with 6 days statistic and screens. So some1 get this 7.3 per hour, if u know how to run 1 dungeon p more then 1 per day with bonus chest, tell me, i will run it
40 min for arah runs is not guaranteed, u can run it all day actualy and dont get anything at end, coz ragequits. And it a bit harder then 111 anyway.
When u buy gems its destroy u gold, u dont give it to man who sell gems for gold. So its must regular amount of gold in system. And prices start grow so fast after champs trains apper. ppl got toons of easy money, and easy money easy to spend.

Actually, prices went up after Ascended weapons were introduced. This increased the demand for a lot of mats, rares (for ecto salvage) and exotics (for dark matter salvage).

And buying gold with gems does not destroy either the gems or the gold. It’s a straight transfer.