Guild Wars 2

We need to make bleed unique.

Torment – More damage while moving.
Confusion – Bonus damage when target attacks.
Burn – High dps.
Poison – Reduced heal effects.

What does bleed do differently? Nothing.

Suggested change for bleed.
Bleed increases its own damage. For each stack of bleed, the damage for bleeding increases by 1%. This would be really a gush effect.

So if in some theoretical world, you get 50 stacks of bleed on your own, you would have 50% more bleed damage. It just seems incredibly generic for it to do exactly the same thing as burn, just not as effectively.

Thoughts?

The more bleeds the enemy has on it the more likely it is to slip and fall in a pool of its own blood.

Nah, I am not wanting to add anymore CC. There are plenty of things for that. Bleed is just so generic, it needs a distinguishing function.

Having it act like vulnerability, but only for bleeds, wouldn’t be all that distinguishing.

Actually, you’re missing the point. Vulnerability is a general damage increasing stat. This would be focusing on DPS conditions. The hybridization of conditions is actually something very much in the game already. Chill reduces movement speed and cooldowns, but cripple only affects movement speed and not as punishing as chill. Bleeding compounding on its own stacking would actually still be a distinguishing trait for bleeding for the damaging conditions. There is nothing distinguishing it from burns, but it not being as high damage ratio.

Vulnerability is capped at 25% (because it increases everything), bleeding wouldn’t need a cap if it is only compounding itself. Not all sources of bleed have the same duration and damage ratio either. Maybe 1% is too high? 0.25% would be just as nice but not over powered when stacks hit 1500.

We should have better bleed distinction/stacking for bleeds IMO…

What generally distinguishes bleed from burning is the duration vs. damage. Burn is a high damage low duration condition, while bleed is intended to be a high duration, lower damage DPS condition.

The way stuff has been balanced since the beginning doesn’t exactly reinforce this any more, but if you were going to give it a special mechanic I’d focus on the duration rather than the damage. like, in stead of bleed amplifying the stacks of its own damage, have bleed applications increase in duration for existing stacks, or naturally increase in duration on application if the target’s HP is lower or something.

PopeUrban.2578:

What generally distinguishes bleed from burning is the duration vs. damage. Burn is a high damage low duration condition, while bleed is intended to be a high duration, lower damage DPS condition.

The way stuff has been balanced since the beginning doesn’t exactly reinforce this any more, but if you were going to give it a special mechanic I’d focus on the duration rather than the damage. like, in stead of bleed amplifying the stacks of its own damage, have bleed applications increase in duration for existing stacks, or naturally increase in duration on application if the target’s HP is lower or something.

Problem with that is, outside of bosses and champs, duration increase isn’t that useful. Most things just don’t live that long.

Would be better to have an effect that is useful no matter what you are fighting.

Bleeds could gradually affect a character’s endurance bar. . .The more they bleed they technically become weaker and can’t dodge as much/fast? haha Just a thought. . I definitely would not mind seeing bleed have an additional effect though as OP proposes.

Pockets.3201:

PopeUrban.2578:

What generally distinguishes bleed from burning is the duration vs. damage. Burn is a high damage low duration condition, while bleed is intended to be a high duration, lower damage DPS condition.

The way stuff has been balanced since the beginning doesn’t exactly reinforce this any more, but if you were going to give it a special mechanic I’d focus on the duration rather than the damage. like, in stead of bleed amplifying the stacks of its own damage, have bleed applications increase in duration for existing stacks, or naturally increase in duration on application if the target’s HP is lower or something.

Problem with that is, outside of bosses and champs, duration increase isn’t that useful. Most things just don’t live that long.

Would be better to have an effect that is useful no matter what you are fighting.

Which is why bleed builds are not a good choice for certain content. There’s nothing really wrong with that. Not every build is geared for every type of thing. You wouldn’t take your PvE build to PvP would you?

I am not proposing to make bleed OP, just give it a little something. Just giving the damage a little nudge would force the hand of condition removals a bit more. The long duration is punished by a condition removal/transfer skills.

I guess, perhaps bleed is fine as it is. Just pondering other people’s thoughts. I guess the idea is to have a condition that punishes the longer you ignore it, but not so much as to endlessly be urgent.

PopeUrban.2578:

Pockets.3201:

PopeUrban.2578:

What generally distinguishes bleed from burning is the duration vs. damage. Burn is a high damage low duration condition, while bleed is intended to be a high duration, lower damage DPS condition.

The way stuff has been balanced since the beginning doesn’t exactly reinforce this any more, but if you were going to give it a special mechanic I’d focus on the duration rather than the damage. like, in stead of bleed amplifying the stacks of its own damage, have bleed applications increase in duration for existing stacks, or naturally increase in duration on application if the target’s HP is lower or something.

Problem with that is, outside of bosses and champs, duration increase isn’t that useful. Most things just don’t live that long.

Would be better to have an effect that is useful no matter what you are fighting.

Which is why bleed builds are not a good choice for certain content. There’s nothing really wrong with that. Not every build is geared for every type of thing. You wouldn’t take your PvE build to PvP would you?

Not every profession has a choice. We don’t have equal access to all conditions. If we want to use conditions for damage, we work with what we have.

And really, bleeds currently don’t sound like a good choice for any content. At least on the PVE side.

Pockets.3201:

PopeUrban.2578:

Pockets.3201:

PopeUrban.2578:

What generally distinguishes bleed from burning is the duration vs. damage. Burn is a high damage low duration condition, while bleed is intended to be a high duration, lower damage DPS condition.

The way stuff has been balanced since the beginning doesn’t exactly reinforce this any more, but if you were going to give it a special mechanic I’d focus on the duration rather than the damage. like, in stead of bleed amplifying the stacks of its own damage, have bleed applications increase in duration for existing stacks, or naturally increase in duration on application if the target’s HP is lower or something.

Problem with that is, outside of bosses and champs, duration increase isn’t that useful. Most things just don’t live that long.

Would be better to have an effect that is useful no matter what you are fighting.

Which is why bleed builds are not a good choice for certain content. There’s nothing really wrong with that. Not every build is geared for every type of thing. You wouldn’t take your PvE build to PvP would you?

Not every profession has a choice. We don’t have equal access to all conditions. If we want to use conditions for damage, we work with what we have.

And really, bleeds currently don’t sound like a good choice for any content. At least on the PVE side.

That seems a bit like saying ‘not every profession has access to shatters’

Seems to me if you’re worried about meta-effectiveness or speed clearing or whatnot then you either pick the most efficient build for the profession you like, or you pick the profession that’s most efficient with the condition types you like.

PopeUrban.2578:

Pockets.3201:

PopeUrban.2578:

Pockets.3201:

PopeUrban.2578:

What generally distinguishes bleed from burning is the duration vs. damage. Burn is a high damage low duration condition, while bleed is intended to be a high duration, lower damage DPS condition.

The way stuff has been balanced since the beginning doesn’t exactly reinforce this any more, but if you were going to give it a special mechanic I’d focus on the duration rather than the damage. like, in stead of bleed amplifying the stacks of its own damage, have bleed applications increase in duration for existing stacks, or naturally increase in duration on application if the target’s HP is lower or something.

Problem with that is, outside of bosses and champs, duration increase isn’t that useful. Most things just don’t live that long.

Would be better to have an effect that is useful no matter what you are fighting.

Which is why bleed builds are not a good choice for certain content. There’s nothing really wrong with that. Not every build is geared for every type of thing. You wouldn’t take your PvE build to PvP would you?

Not every profession has a choice. We don’t have equal access to all conditions. If we want to use conditions for damage, we work with what we have.

And really, bleeds currently don’t sound like a good choice for any content. At least on the PVE side.

That seems a bit like saying ‘not every profession has access to shatters’

Seems to me if you’re worried about meta-effectiveness or speed clearing or whatnot then you either pick the most efficient build for the profession you like, or you pick the profession that’s most efficient with the condition types you like.

That is hardly the same thing.

You can’t compare a mechanic that one profession gets to the concept of every profession should be able to have a good condition build.

And I’m not the type to care about the meta, speed runs, or any of that. Bleeds just shouldn’t be burns, but worse.

PopeUrban.2578:

Pockets.3201:

PopeUrban.2578:

What generally distinguishes bleed from burning is the duration vs. damage. Burn is a high damage low duration condition, while bleed is intended to be a high duration, lower damage DPS condition.

The way stuff has been balanced since the beginning doesn’t exactly reinforce this any more, but if you were going to give it a special mechanic I’d focus on the duration rather than the damage. like, in stead of bleed amplifying the stacks of its own damage, have bleed applications increase in duration for existing stacks, or naturally increase in duration on application if the target’s HP is lower or something.

Problem with that is, outside of bosses and champs, duration increase isn’t that useful. Most things just don’t live that long.

Would be better to have an effect that is useful no matter what you are fighting.

Which is why bleed builds are not a good choice for certain content. There’s nothing really wrong with that. Not every build is geared for every type of thing. You wouldn’t take your PvE build to PvP would you?

Bleed is never a good choice over burn, that is the real problem. To actually deal the same DPS as with burning, you need to keep up 5-6 times the burn stacks at all times. Or your fight will just last 5-6 times as long. This is because the burn users can upkeep around 7-8 stacks of burn at all times (ignoring spikes), so it really does not matter that bleeding ticks for longer ; you’d have to keep up ~40 to 48 stacks of bleed by yourself to account for a single dedicated burn user; and as we all know keeping that many bleeding stacks by yourself just is not possible. Ergo burning is better then bleeding in any scenario, and thus should be changed.

Also at the guys coming with the vulnerability reasoning : OP’s suggestion just boosts the bleeding damage by 1%, nothing else. So, no, it isn’t like vuln. Sad thing is, even then bleeding would be subpar to burning.

My personal idea: ~5 stacks of bleeding become one stack of “heavy bleeding” (name subject to change X) ) , which then deals a lot more damage per tick.

The problem with any buff to bleeding though is, that the professions that can “spam” burning also have a pretty good access to bleeding…