Guild Wars 2

First: Yes, the title of the thread is poo, but I couldn’t figure out how to put the entire question into the title. Sorry. Now, on with the post.

I’m sure we’re all aware that many people (not saying all or most, just “many”) would like a new class to try. Part of the problem with that is that ANet covered most of the bases already with the existing 8 classes. Efforts to think up a new class will often run into the problem of copying an area covered by an existing class.

But is that really a problem that we care about?

If ANet came out with a class that was very similar to one of the existing classes in play, or felt more like a mix of two of them, would that actually be a bad thing if the style of the class is still different? If they came out with a class that (for example) was basically a warrior with a magic and spirits theme, would anyone want it or would it be rejected?

I realize that the price you would have to pay for such a thing may matter and influence your decision, but on the basic level, do we care or would we rather have the new class to play with?

I’d kind of like to hear people’s opinions on this.

Palador.2170:

First: Yes, the title of the thread is poo, but I couldn’t figure out how to put the entire question into the title. Sorry. Now, on with the post.

I’m sure we’re all aware that many people (not saying all or most, just “many”) would like a new class to try. Part of the problem with that is that ANet covered most of the bases already with the existing 8 classes. Efforts to think up a new class will often run into the problem of copying an area covered by an existing class.

But is that really a problem that we care about?

If ANet came out with a class that was very similar to one of the existing classes in play, or felt more like a mix of two of them, would that actually be a bad thing if the style of the class is still different? If they came out with a class that (for example) was basically a warrior with a magic and spirits theme, would anyone want it or would it be rejected?

I realize that the price you would have to pay for such a thing may matter and influence your decision, but on the basic level, do we care or would we rather have the new class to play with?

I’d kind of like to hear people’s opinions on this.

I honestly hate that argument.
Sorry but in many other MMOs that have many classes each with different functions.
People forget that its not about roles covered, since all classes suppose to be able to play roles. its all about how the class play. All classes have their own mechanics, so no class is a copy of another.

Look at Warriors and Guardians. They both wear plate armor, and have melee weapons but nothing alike in gameplay.

Same thing for Rangers and Thiefs.

So that argument that Anet covered everything is flawed.

We still dont have Shadow Knights, Shape Shifters, Golem Mancer, and thats just to name a few.

Paragons. Its that simple lol. Heavy armor ranged class that use shouts. Heck maybe this way warriors don’t have to use bows so much and can actually be used as pure melee class.

And we don’t need for everything a seperate new Class.
Just a new seperate 3rd soldier class is enough ,what GW2 needs.
What GW2 needs also is alot more Character Progression, heck exactly therefore Anet made for this especially the very first CDI about and yet we haven’t seen any fruits coming out from that first CDI.
The Character Progression of this game is currently non existing, completely stagnant since Game Release and the only Progression that we have in this Game so far is only reaching Level 80 to max out your Traits and collect all Traits and the very few Utility Skills/Elites from collecting the required amounts of Skill Points with Skill Points becoming quickly obsolete basically due to the lack of new Skills, or any unlockable Talents, Expertises and other character progressive visual things for example.

People should finally forget that Nonsense, that was the Paragon, this junk will never return, this class has been basically completely absorbed as good as possible into the Warrior and the Guardian. Heck, the Guardian has even a PVP Achievement, thats called Paragon. The only thing that is missing from the old Paragon Gameplay are the Songs (Hymns, which are something that fits alot better to a Bard, which is the reaspon why Paragons were always for me stupid Wannabe-Bards and in that case, this Role is basically already covered by the Mesmer as they are the Class, which showed from begin on already signs to cover that Music Artist Style that makes usage of Sound in Combat (Underwater Auto Attack Trident Sirens Call)
The other thing missing are just Polearm Weapons (Spears on Land and for that Anet would have to do best only these 4 Steps)

• Copy Spears from Underwater Combat for on Land Combat
• Rename Underwater Spears to Harpoons and Harpoon Guns to Bolt Guns (or redesign them into Crossbows)
• Merge Tridents with Staffs (Tridents are such an obsolete Weapon Category, when they could be just in fact Staff Reskins with Staff Stats)
• Add more Underwater Weapons, like Daggers, Focus, Torch (Magnesium burns under water), Axes, Maces, Swords…seriously, when we can wield large 2h harpoons under water, then we should also have no problems with Daggers, Swords ect. which are easier to handle. Underwater Gameplay needs seriously more love!
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Back to Topic.
More Character Progression – best done with adding Sub Classes, as they will allow ANet do add alot more depth to each Class. Such nonsense like Golem Mancers will never happen, because that is basically a racial Class that only Asura could be.
It was in my honest opinion already a massive wrong decision, to give this game even at all Racial Skills, cause they will always be useless, just to guarantee, that they don’t will give any of the playable races any advantages over the other playable races, so that players create characters with certain races only for their skills, for their classes, for their traits and so on.. this junk creates nothing else, than only discrimination among players if too much of such crap design finds into the game.

So in my opinion, the best thing that ANet should do is to remove all the Racial Skilsl from the game and exchange them with class based Utility Skills, so that all classes get a hand full of new universal good Utility Skills instead which are same as good, like the other Utility Skills, regardless of which Class you play! As this step would help to create a bit more better Build Diversity.

Sub Classes together with adding constantly new Utility Skills, new Healing Skills, new Elite Skills and a redesign of the complete Trait System into a splitted up version consisting out of Traits, Talents and Expertises.
Thats what would give this game alot more depth and character progression.

The final Step after that which Anet would need to do to help making it easier to balance the game is to split all Skills/Traits between at least PvP Version and PvE/WvW Version and to add finally for Underwater Combat their own Traits/Talents7Expertises then and change some Skills, so that they become useable also under water, so that certain Classes like the Thief, Engineer or the Elementalist don’t get crippled so much in their Gameplay, once they go into water, compared to how you can play the classes on land.

With Sub Classes, GW2 could have basically each Niche filled easily with Character Progression, which you can think of:

Necromancers:
- Ritualists
- Witchers
- Visionaries
- Bellicists

Thieves
- Rogues
- Infiltrators
- Saboteurs
- Striders

Rangers
- Hunters
- Scouts
- Tamers
- Druids

Elementalists
- Arcanists
- Benders
- Summoners
- Sorcerers

Engineers
- Pioneers
- Alchemists
- Machinists
- Inventors

Warriors
- Berserkers
- Legionnaires
- Duelists
- Crusaders

Guardian
- Patrons
- Templars
- Clerics
- Inquisitors

Mesmer
- Chronomancers
- Bards
- Fencers
- Theurgists

These 4 named Subs per Main Class are all specializations in different directions based from what the Classes can do currently, what for Expertises they have and which Talents their own, where either the existing Talents and Expertises get advanced further or new ones get added to progress in a certain direction further to learn new Gameplay Aspects, like wielding new different Weapons that the Main Class solely wasn’t able to use before, learning lots of new healing, Utility and Elite Skilsl that would be unique to your chosen Sub Class to further develop your Character Progression to get a unique and individual Character Build.

The Game must get away a bit from this “You can do with your Class everythign jack of all trades-mentality” Only then you can create proper Class Roles that feel unique, that feel individual and which give the player also the feelign of getting Character Progression, that feels depthful as like also meaningful.

When the goal of the game for character progression is only to reach Level 80 as quickly a possible and call this then at the end of the day proper character progression, then there is something massively running wrong in this game, as such a kind of Character Progression will really quickly become very boring.
Especially when there naturally exist items, that can quickly boost your Levels Up and the whole game is by design so easy, that you can reach Max Level in no time compared to other MMOs (which is imo also the reason, why GW2 seems to have flopped in China to the point, that they already had to do there Server Merges, the game is simply too easy for their taste)

The new class is death knight.

If you didn’t realize Rytlock jumps into the whole on the ground. I’m sorry to tell you, but Rytlock died.

Fortunately he come back to life and become a death knight. The next living story serves as an introduction to the new class.

laokoko.7403:

The new class is death knight.

If you didn’t realize Rytlock jumps into the whole on the ground. I’m sorry to tell you, but Rytlock died.

Fortunately he come back to life and become a death knight. The next living story serves as an introduction to the new class.

Lol, those WoW’lers and their wishful thinkings.
There will never be a Class in GW2 that will be named “Death Knight”, just by the kind of way how ANet names all of their classes with single words and not with two word names. Like Paladin = Ok, Holy Knight = Nope

Sorry to burst your little dream bubble

LMAO wow Orpheal thanks for your colorful comments. X.X but tbh I don’t really get subclasses. Reminds me of just getting new skills but making them in “sets” lol which I wouldn’t mind getting new skill but I don’t see why they have to have like a set name for them (Ritualist/witcher) but idk thats just me. Builds are already subclasses like hambow or shoutbow etc… I’d prefer a prestige mode type thing for player progression more then subclass. Maybe subclass one day when we already have the game properly balanced and have enough different actual classes.

Zoso, we have already enough different Base Classes. All that is missing is just only a final 3rd soldier class, like a Partizan kind of Class, that brings Polearm Weapons into the Game like Halberds, Glaives, Lances ect.

If you don’t get Sub Classes, just take a look at Games like Ragnarok Online (ancient old game, but still up until today one with the bets and most simplest Sub Class Systems ever), or to actual Games like Final Fantasy 14, where Sub Classes are called “Disciplines”, where you just progress with your initial Character Class further to a new Profession, that is more advanced, than your earlier Base Class, progressed in the kind of what that you learned by then new Skills special to your chosen path of progression, which you weren’t able to use before, learned how to wield new types of weapons, that could define your Character Build completely into different ways, unable to use for your before, which change completely the visuals of your Class, improving the visuals of your Skills to let them look mightier/different than before.
Thats what you can reach only with a Sub Class System.

What you describe here are no Sub Classes, You just simply talk about only “Build Names” like “Hambow”, which is just a simple stupid given Build Name for a Character, that plays just only with Hammers and Bows.

A Sub Class defines alot more things, than just which weapons a Character uses.
A Sub CLass completely deefines the whole Gameplay Mechanics of a Class, to the point, that it even can completely change the Gameplay Mechanics of a Class to something totally new, so that playing the Sub Class over the earlier Base Class from which the Sub orignated from feels completely different.

Example:

Mesmer progresses to Bard

While the Mesmer uses Illusions to create Clones to shatter their Illusions to cause Damage that way. A Bard would use Sound to create Illusions which either support Allies our control Enemies and instead of shattering these Illusions, the Bard alterates the Clones through changing Rhythms and Melodies through F1-F4.

Thats what just only a Sub Class System can do, to expand the Gameplay Mechanics and also change them if needed for a certain Sub Class to improve the gameplay for that class and make it trustworthy about what you woulds expect from what such a Sub Class should be able to do, while still not losign the Base Mechanics/Skills/Traits in this case of the Mesmer, but instead gaining just new things on top of that, that you can use only, because you have chosen for yourself to follow the Path of the Bard with your Character, making it possible for your Chaarcter to learn new Bard Special Traits/Skills and Gameplay Mechanics as alos becoming able to wield new Bard specific Weapons, like for example Instruments, turning Harps into Bows, or using Flutes as Halberds or using Guitars as Axes and so on…

Look for this creativity for Music Instrument Weapons for example at games like Shining Resonance.
Just for the lols
http://www.infendo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/guitaraxe-495x274.jpg
Weapon Illusions one could say, Weapons that look like Music Instruments, but are in real just Weapons ^^

One of the Shining Characters using a Flute Lance(Antagonist)
http://assets.rpgsite.net/images/images/000/029/849/original/SR_Sep212014_A01.jpg

Artwork of their Music Instrument Weapons from other Characters
http://www.gameguyz.de/sites/default/files/pictures_images/03.06.2014/1401791081_1.jpg

I dont hate the idea of subclasses but idk if we are there yet. How would this affect PvP? Celestial Meta is still not considered balanced by the majority of the community subclasses could add to a bigger balance issue.

Anet could use Sub Classes also just to balance the game better.
however, I know what you mean and where you are coming from with these concerns.
First and foremost, before I think also that something like Sub Classes could be put into the game – ANet would need to have to completely redesign the Trait System first as a preparation step towards for Sub Classes, because the Trait System under its new design would be used then also to unlock later for your chosen Class the various Sub Classes through learning new Talents and new Expertises.

Thats why I want that ANet should split up the Trait System into Traits, Talents and Expertises, so that Character Progression becomes more depthful and receives this way also the required mechanics, so that they can introduce Sub Classes in a proper way.