Guild Wars 2

A lot of Warriors & Necro’s are toting this patch as their ‘Last Hope’ to see them become viable in competitive play, yet we get slapped in the face with this New Condition: Torment.

Which supposedly does periodic damage, and even more damage if the target is moving around.

Necro will be happy of course, since they will be getting access to it via Death Shroud #5, but to give it to Thieves & Mesmers also is utterly mind blowing.

These two Professions already have a strong pressence in TPvP as Roamers or Bunker Busters, and giving them acess to another condition which supplements their burst potential is ridiculous.

Warrior who are also suffering from sustain issues in PvP have yet another condition to deal with, one that attacks our greatest strengths as a class so far; Mobility.

I am curious on the design behind this decision, as it seems like an unnecessary buff to professions already on the top of the proverbial ‘pile’.

I dont complain much, and I usually have faith in the development team to do what is right for the game, but this new condition just has me screaming “WTF?!”….

Disappointed.

Mesmers won’t be using Torment in TPvP.

Also, most of the changes won’t affect sPvP Mesmers. It basically makes non-Shatter builds less viable.

Kreedz.8127:

but to give it to Thieves & Mesmers also is utterly mind blowing.

If the leaked notes are true:

- The condition isn’t really strong. It hits for 0.75 of a bleed if you don’t move and 1.5 of a bleed if you do.

- The Thief would only have access to it through Skale Venom, and unless the number of charges will change too, it will still be as completly useless as before so you won’t see it too much around. At best (assuming you move all the time) it will be a 4.5*bleed. Considering the Ranger already has a venom (works exactly like venoms, same mechanic, same time active, same cooldown) that applies 5 bleeds without needing you to move it isn’t like Skale would be a big thing.

Most people are screaming about this condition when really it isn’t that strong and there aren’t reliable ways to put many of them on your target. It will be an extra punishment if you move, but not that big of a deal.

They probably are introducting it in small bits to see how the meta reacts.

People tend to blow things out of proportion. Remember FotM? Yea.

You know, I actually have no idea the purpose of this new condition. To discourage moving? Even if the damage is minimal, what is the purpose of the additional DoT? You’re either in…

1) Damage is significant enough that players would try to los and remain stationary.
2) Damage is insignificant that players will just ignore it.

Arcturus.5846:

2) Damage is insignificant that players will just ignore it.

This.

Also obligatory SLAP IN TEH FACE! comment.

Lokheit.7943:

They probably are introducting it in small bits to see how the meta reacts.

This is probably nearest the mark. Good opportunity to see how its interwoven into blending with other condition types as well as its ability to rejuvenate certain build types/weapons across certain classes.

I cant see, in its current form, it being much more of a second confusion in terms of threat. If infact that. Of course thats supposition but the current amount of it, combined with its location on certain weapons, like scepter, seem more like an attempt to annoy glass cannons (with more need for mobility) than much else.

Arcturus.5846:

You know, I actually have no idea the purpose of this new condition. To discourage moving? Even if the damage is minimal, what is the purpose of the additional DoT? You’re either in…

1) Damage is significant enough that players would try to los and remain stationary.
2) Damage is insignificant that players will just ignore it.

In PvP it adds thought and strategy. Someone has to figure out if it’s worth moving or not. The very idea that some people won’t even notice in and others will and have that moment if indecision will change the way people play…which I suspect is the idea.

As the game stands now, many say it’s too simple. Adding a bit of complexity (and admittedly that’s all it is) isn’t a bad thing in my opinion.

There will be limits on how you can use it. People are panicking as though Thieves and Mesmers will all just have free access to Torment, another skill button on their bar for free or something. That isn’t how it’s going to work. It’s meant to balance less viable builds, and isn’t all that strong in and of itself. Seriously, I think after about a week or so, people will not even notice it half the time.

Yeah I’m thinking less people who play thieves spec into condition thieves than direct damage thieves, and most won’t change that. This just gives some people who want it another option.

1.50 of a bleed dmg if you move..
How many condition thiefs and condition mesmers do you see in the game lol..

Even if the damage is minimal,the point is that we’re gonna be punished for moving now…While warriors being in need of more sustain,rely heavily on mobility..and now our leg specialist is being cut down ( Why actually…is 1 sec immobilize Really that Op to be having for a warrior..? ) ,ontop of it we’re being punished for walking aswell..Prob,some kitten will jump in saying,well then just dont move untill the condition is gone…So,we stand there not moving,also not attacking because retal hits like a truck,confusion hitting you aswell…I think in about 4 patches warriors will be just sitting ducks standing around being worthless because were probably gonna be punished for breathing in air aswell.

This is a rather typical “why are they buffing a powerful profession” topic. They’re not buffing Mesmers. They’re buffing Scepter, which no one uses because it sucks.

Skale Venom is on a 30 second CD untraited. It will inflict 3 stacks of torment at 5 seconds of duration, modified by condition duration. At most, it will have 10 seconds of duration. Condition thieves typically have around 135 damage/tic, so you’ll see 5 to 10 seconds of ~550-600 damage. That’s similar to burn damage.

I’d be more worried about necromancers and them getting both torment and burn damage. Just those two conditions are good for ~1K/second, not counting bleeds, poisons and whatever else they may spec for.

I’ll probably try it out as a thief, but I think I’ll stick with caltrops instead, unless torment proves to be worthwhile.

There was absolutely no reason to add yet another condition to the game.

Caedmon.6798:

Even if the damage is minimal,the point is that we’re gonna be punished for moving now…While warriors being in need of more sustain,rely heavily on mobility..and now our leg specialist is being cut down ( Why actually…is 1 sec immobilize Really that Op to be having for a warrior..? ) ,ontop of it we’re being punished for walking aswell..Prob,some kitten will jump in saying,well then just dont move untill the condition is gone…So,we stand there not moving,also not attacking because retal hits like a truck,confusion hitting you aswell…I think in about 4 patches warriors will be just sitting ducks standing around being worthless because were probably gonna be punished for breathing in air aswell.

Leg specialist was limited because you now have a lot of cripple access if you read the whole leaked notes. If they’re right a S/A Warrior can get REALLY nasty, inmobilizing you a lot and getting Fury when applying Inmob too, to then unleash the new Axe #5 that is 50% better than before while the target can’t move or is slowed and you have perma fury.

All of this is if the leaked notes are all right, of course.

Fade.7658:

Skale Venom is on a 30 second CD untraited.

45 untraited, 36 traited in fact so the scenario is even worse for the venom. I’ve been playing a sharer build for quite a loooooong time now and I don’t think I will take this one after the chance. If the charges are aumented to 5 then I will, but not really for the torment but for the leeching (that’s why spider venom is good on sharer builds).

Caedmon.6798:

Even if the damage is minimal,the point is that we’re gonna be punished for moving now…While warriors being in need of more sustain,rely heavily on mobility..and now our leg specialist is being cut down ( Why actually…is 1 sec immobilize Really that Op to be having for a warrior..? ) ,ontop of it we’re being punished for walking aswell..Prob,some kitten will jump in saying,well then just dont move untill the condition is gone…So,we stand there not moving,also not attacking because retal hits like a truck,confusion hitting you aswell…I think in about 4 patches warriors will be just sitting ducks standing around being worthless because were probably gonna be punished for breathing in air aswell.

I get your point. However, I Warriors don’t just rely on mobility, but DPS as well. That hasn’t changed. So many people complain about how OP the Warrior is and then suddenly, when something happens that might, for a very small amount of time and damage, detract from that a bit, they are all up in arms about it.

To be clear, I’m not singling you out as one of these people, just that your particular post segued nicely into that point. But you can’t have it both ways. I hardly think the damage from Torment will be so spectacular that you will be one-hit (or two, first Torment then whatever DPS attack is used) killed by Thieves and Memsers from now on. Remember also, that in order to use Torment, it’s likely these other classes will have had to spec out of a DPS build and into condition damage builds. Keep a condition clearing skill to hand, which you should really have anyway, and you can brush it off no problem.

It will take a bit of time, sure, to learn to play to accommodate for this new condition, but I really doubt we’ll see a major shift to Warriors being completely useless, immobile, harmless classes while Thieves and Mesmers suddenly become the only classes anyone plays.

give mes a new condition, Panic. Target 5 Foes in the area gain panic, whenever they are balled up together (130 – melee range), they will rupt each others skills when activated. Also give enemy mes this abiilty to cast on players.

:D Gimme dat condition, its like this hex from GW1, and that was supposedly your inspiration. Make it that using a skill dazes all people in a very close range for like 1/4 or 1/8 second. Making it not a perm dazer but really only an interrupter.

Thanks, i´m heading to the suggestions forum (maybe not a condition but a utility skill?… Oooooh! A new glamour! It wont be a real condition, more like GS5 from the guardian, an icont that pops up and does crazy stuff… Oooooh, give it to diversion shatter in some unlikely grandmaster trait. “People hit by diversion panic for 3 seconds.”)

Edit: No sarcasm, this sounds insane, but if put into a narrow trait line or… OOOOOOH An long CD elite!!!!

JJBigs.8456:

give mes a new condition, Panic. Target 5 Foes in the area gain panic, whenever they are balled up together (130 – melee range), they will rupt each others skills when activated. Also give enemy mes this abiilty to cast on players.

I could just see the chaos this would cause with a world boss mes. Would be great to fraps!

I just love how doom prophets start announcing end of all even before things have happend. Unless op is coming from future and has seen patch already…

They way I understood Torment is similar to what Confusion did, only the intensity stacks when you move rather than attack.

Imagine this scenario for a Necro in WvW. You drop Torment on an enemy, swap back out of DeathShroud and pop Epidemic to spread it, then use Staff #5 to Fear your enemy. Suddenly a group of people are stacking damage from Torment unless they can break out of it.

Necro also has trouble chasing enemies down when they try and flee. If I’m in WvW and I’m winning its usually pretty easy for my opponent to just turn and run away from me. With Torment, and the speed buff to DeathShroud, hopefully that will make it at least possible for me to prevent my prey from running away.

Caedmon.6798:

Even if the damage is minimal,the point is that we’re gonna be punished for moving now…While warriors being in need of more sustain,rely heavily on mobility..and now our leg specialist is being cut down ( Why actually…is 1 sec immobilize Really that Op to be having for a warrior..? ) ,ontop of it we’re being punished for walking aswell..Prob,some kitten will jump in saying,well then just dont move untill the condition is gone…So,we stand there not moving,also not attacking because retal hits like a truck,confusion hitting you aswell…I think in about 4 patches warriors will be just sitting ducks standing around being worthless because were probably gonna be punished for breathing in air aswell.

Leg Specialist is being changed because the third attack in the main hand sword combo string is being changed to a 1 second cripple, so to be able to apply a 1 second cripple that applies a 1 second immobilize ever 1.2 seconds means you can perma-immobilize anyone without certain traits/runes/food which would be ridiculous.

As far as torment goes it is really designed around the buff to Necro Death Shroud adding the new skill that will torment an area and start a timer that if the effected opponents don’t leave in time with cause them to be immobilized.

“Death shroud: New ability #5 – Dark Binding: You tether all enemies within a 600 range, constantly dealing Torment to them over time. At the end of the cast, Dark Binding immobilizes all affected enemies still within the radius.”

Basically this forces the opponents effected to decide do I move out and take the damage or do I stay in and take the loss of mobility and the immobilize at the end. However if they added the condition only to Necros people would have whined, so they used it to make a slight buff to a couple other condition builds. (Thief Venoms and Mesmer Scepter which wakitten hard by the confusion nerf)

Venoms and conditions are so vastly inferior to crit builds that anyone who takes torment as a thief will be seriously gimping themselves.

There are plenty of ways to make venoms viable, but so far none of them have been implemented. Instead we get these bizarre changes that don’t actually do anything.

venoms used to be really good with venomsharing and the stone one since team would get it too but ofc it was nerfed. he was still critical damage though, its just utilities. since the nerf he stopped running it