Guild Wars 2

So theres a new EULA?

Where can i find this?

login in the game and it pops up

Is there somewhere that ANet calls out the changes between this new EULA and the original one, or do we need to go on a delta treasure hunt?

updated version here as of 8-25-2015
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

ACCOUNT AND PAYMENTS TO ArenaNet

Periodic Payments Related to Accounts, Service and Content – ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, require You to pay to establish or maintain any Account, to use any Service or to use any Content. You acknowledge that if You are required to do so, but do not, then ArenaNet may terminate Your Account under Section 3(b). You additionally acknowledge that ArenaNet may require such payments on any basis it deems appropriate in its reasonable discretion, including but not limited to any per-use or periodic basis (such as a number of hours, days or months). And You acknowledge that ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, establish the timing and form in which such payment must be made, including but not limited to credit cards or online payment services.

A little worrying for the future?

Gaile…help? Alleviate our fears…please?

Peech.3587:

A little worrying for the future?

Maybe, maybe not. The wording of it has nothing to do with GW2 directly. I’d say it may hint at them coming out with something else that’s not GW2. It may tie in with it, but I very strongly doubt that this is for GW2 directly.

I’m sure that if it’s a move to subscription, we’ll hear about it at this Saturday, right?

Mommy, I’m scared! T.T

If they start a monthly sub fee, that will be the day I stop playing. They already get money from me on gems.

Bensozia.8071:

If they start a monthly sub fee, that will be the day I stop playing. They already get money from me on gems.

Some of us have already paid the equivalent of multiple subscriptions via gems over the course of the game. In the off chance this is really a thing that they consider doing, I demand to be given free access for the next 3 years at least.

Peech.3587:

ACCOUNT AND PAYMENTS TO ArenaNet

Periodic Payments Related to Accounts, Service and Content – ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, require You to pay to establish or maintain any Account, to use any Service or to use any Content. You acknowledge that if You are required to do so, but do not, then ArenaNet may terminate Your Account under Section 3(b). You additionally acknowledge that ArenaNet may require such payments on any basis it deems appropriate in its reasonable discretion, including but not limited to any per-use or periodic basis (such as a number of hours, days or months). And You acknowledge that ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, establish the timing and form in which such payment must be made, including but not limited to credit cards or online payment services.

A little worrying for the future?

Not 100% certain here, but I do believe that this paragraph has always been there.

Edit: found this link https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/License-Agreement/first#post1703119

Some games are ditching subs to go f2p heck Wildstar which also falls under NCsoft like GW2 is going F2P this fall.

Seems like GW2 just added the means to go the reverse path and start getting people to pay subs. GW2 15 dollars a month that’s would’ve been like paying for the summer without events we just had or subbing for 3 years without an expac. I suppose they want us to pay for all of that time.

Either that or there adding services that require a sub? or China?

Bensozia.8071:

If they start a monthly sub fee, that will be the day I stop playing. They already get money from me on gems.

Really? This is what you think is going to happen. There has never been a game that went to a subscription after not having one.

Now they may offer something like China where you can pay monthly and get access to things that you would otherwise not have access to. But there is no way they would change a buy to play game to subscription based.

Probably a CYA clause. If GW2 tried to add a mandatory monthly subscription at this point, the anger from the internet outrage machine would make the searing look like a weenie roast.

I could see some sort of optional subscription for special features but I think even that would bother a lot of people. Sadly, a lot of players not only don’t want to have to pay anything, they don’t want other people to pay anything either.

Would be nice if they listed what was changed.

Zohane.7208:

Peech.3587:

ACCOUNT AND PAYMENTS TO ArenaNet

Periodic Payments Related to Accounts, Service and Content – ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, require You to pay to establish or maintain any Account, to use any Service or to use any Content. You acknowledge that if You are required to do so, but do not, then ArenaNet may terminate Your Account under Section 3(b). You additionally acknowledge that ArenaNet may require such payments on any basis it deems appropriate in its reasonable discretion, including but not limited to any per-use or periodic basis (such as a number of hours, days or months). And You acknowledge that ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, establish the timing and form in which such payment must be made, including but not limited to credit cards or online payment services.

A little worrying for the future?

Not 100% certain here, but I do believe that this paragraph has always been there.

Edit: found this link https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/License-Agreement/first#post1703119

Seems like you were right about the age of that paragraph ^^

Gaile Gray

Oh say, that’s been in there since before Guild Wars launched, back in 2005. I guess I’d call it “standard verbiage” and I know that I’ve asked about it, and it’s a corporate thing, but should not be seen as any sort of mechanism to start monthly fees. The entire company is behind the “There is no monthly fee” concept for GW and GW2, and that is not going to change.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/License-Agreement/first#post1706206

It would be nice to have a summary of the changes made to the above that has forced everyone to have to re accept these on log in.

I might have missed it, but didn’t see it mentioned in the patch notes anywhere.

Or do they seriously expect everyone (or even anyone) to read through the pages after page of legalese just to try and spot what changed? Do I need a lawyer now to play the game?

I wonder how many people ever read those things they sign. I’m from the old school of thought that if an agreement has to be more than a couple sides of A4, one of the parties is either trying to hide something or get out of any responsibility for it.

Regarding the changes made in 4b, it appears to be limited to a change in language from NCSoft to ArenaNet. The clause as a whole was already there and a language change like that would seem to bring decision making to a local level.

archive.org to the rescue!

EULA:
Old EULA for US, updated March 26, 2013
Old EULA for europe, updated March 26, 2013
New EULA, updated August 25, 2015

Privacy Policy:
Old Privacy Policy
New Privacy Policy

At first glance, they changed NCSoft to ArenaNet, changed the formatting and merged the region-specific versions into a single document. I’ll take a closer look when time permits.

Peech.3587:

A little worrying for the future?

Huh, that DOES mean that at some point they can make HoT a required purchase to play Gw2.

Like we might have a 3-6 month grace period after it launches before the game stops working without it. Considering the lack of player-base separation built into the design, it would be a matter of time before the non-expansion playerbase is too much of a dev drain to support. (especially if more expansions drop. What if 3 expansions down the line you then have people who still only have the original, people who just have HoT, people with all expansions, etc.) It’d be a heck of a lot easier for A-net to say “all expansions or no access” than deal with that mess.

This is just speculation and that’d be a terrible PR move so I don’t think they’d go through with that though.

Only differences are a bit of verbage, and the one in the link says NCSoft and this one says ArenaNet.

Once again Gaile calms our fears in a post from the past…she’s so mystical…:)

Yeah, these EULAs most games are using these days are a complete atrocity and an insult to their customers. They can’t -honestly- expect people to read the equivalent for 30-40 letter pages for each and every game they are playing. Not even mentioning that these things are written by lawyers and thus are completely incomprehensible for humans anyway. I really think judges should start tossing out in court every EULA more than two pages long and not written in a understandable manner, without even looking at them.

I don’t even get why they are using that many pages to essentially say “You have no rights. We do what we want”, anyway. Because that’s always the gist of these “agreements”.

Yea, like Thorfinnr says, ArenaNet replaces NCSOFT is the most notable change and the EU portion got tacked onto the end being the 2nd most noteable change.

Just a quick question, will I still be able to use shader mods, like Sweetfx/Reshade?

Since the EULA changed, I just want to double check if this is okay.

Gaile Gray.6029:

…
I don’t have the edited version, so
I was not able to make a tracked changes, and
my time doesn’t really allow that now.
I appreciate you doing the check about this
…

neither do I Mrs Gray

Tub.4560:

archive.org to the rescue!

EULA:
Old EULA for US, updated March 26, 2013
Old EULA for europe, updated March 26, 2013
New EULA, updated August 25, 2015

Privacy Policy:
Old Privacy Policy
New Privacy Policy

At first glance, they changed NCSoft to ArenaNet, changed the formatting and merged the region-specific versions into a single document. I’ll take a closer look when time permits.

JediYoda.1275:

Gaile Gray

Oh say, that’s been in there since before Guild Wars launched, back in 2005. I guess I’d call it “standard verbiage” and I know that I’ve asked about it, and it’s a corporate thing, but should not be seen as any sort of mechanism to start monthly fees. The entire company is behind the “There is no monthly fee” concept for GW and GW2, and that is not going to change.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/License-Agreement/first#post1706206

Thanks Tub and JediYoda for doing the research. The tl;dr is: much ado about corporate mumbo-jumbo that has been there for a while.

It’s not about complaining, no matter how worried I am, but about things that it may mean.
in my opinion, Periodic Payments Related to Accounts, Service and Content – ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, require You to pay to establish or maintain any Account, to use any Service or to use any Content. You acknowledge that if You are required to do so, but do not, then ArenaNet may terminate Your Account under Section 3(b). You additionally acknowledge that ArenaNet may require such payments on any basis it deems appropriate in its reasonable discretion, including but not limited to any per-use or periodic basis (such as a number of hours, days or months). And You acknowledge that ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, establish the timing and form in which such payment must be made, including but not limited to credit cards or online payment services. can mean 2 things

Players, who aren’t up for buying HoT might be forced to do so.
In my opinion the most probable option, since there were many flame threads, cries and reddit was filled with “don’t buy HoT”
Monthly subscribtion
The worst idea since Windows Vista, such change would kill game.

What do you think about this change?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-EULA/first#post5415099

This is likely something that NCSoft decided on because HoT isn’t prepurchase selling as well as they want it too…
Thanks for pointing this out.

shejesa.3712:

It’s not about complaining, no matter how worried I am, but about things that it may mean.
in my opinion, Periodic Payments Related to Accounts, Service and Content – ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, require You to pay to establish or maintain any Account, to use any Service or to use any Content. You acknowledge that if You are required to do so, but do not, then ArenaNet may terminate Your Account under Section 3(b). You additionally acknowledge that ArenaNet may require such payments on any basis it deems appropriate in its reasonable discretion, including but not limited to any per-use or periodic basis (such as a number of hours, days or months). And You acknowledge that ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, establish the timing and form in which such payment must be made, including but not limited to credit cards or online payment services. can mean 2 things

Players, who aren’t up for buying HoT might be forced to do so.
In my opinion the most probable option, since there were many flame threads, cries and reddit was filled with “don’t buy HoT”
Monthly subscribtion
The worst idea since Windows Vista, such change would kill game.

What do you think about this change?

IF it was going that way, and it was confirmed its not, then it wouldn’t be as bad a Windows Vista. It would be as bad as Windows ME, or Microsoft Bob. Probably worse.

pdavis.8031:

shejesa.3712:

It’s not about complaining, no matter how worried I am, but about things that it may mean.
in my opinion, Periodic Payments Related to Accounts, Service and Content – ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, require You to pay to establish or maintain any Account, to use any Service or to use any Content. You acknowledge that if You are required to do so, but do not, then ArenaNet may terminate Your Account under Section 3(b). You additionally acknowledge that ArenaNet may require such payments on any basis it deems appropriate in its reasonable discretion, including but not limited to any per-use or periodic basis (such as a number of hours, days or months). And You acknowledge that ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, establish the timing and form in which such payment must be made, including but not limited to credit cards or online payment services. can mean 2 things

Players, who aren’t up for buying HoT might be forced to do so.
In my opinion the most probable option, since there were many flame threads, cries and reddit was filled with “don’t buy HoT”
Monthly subscribtion
The worst idea since Windows Vista, such change would kill game.

What do you think about this change?

IF it was going that way, and it was confirmed its not, then it wouldn’t be as bad a Windows Vista. It would be as bad as Windows ME, or Microsoft Bob. Probably worse.

you’re kinda right, but didn’t want to show Very Big Bad when I could write about Slightly Less Bad.

Don’t know if I wrote this right, sorry for weak english XD

Guys, check the thread Ayrilana linked above. The EULA thing isn’t new and isn’t a threat, as researched in that thread.

Donari.5237:

Guys, check the thread Ayrilana linked above. The EULA thing isn’t new and isn’t a threat, as researched in that thread.

You’re assuming that the conspiracy nuts on these forums are actually interested in the truth. This is why this new thread was created in the first place, because the OP had seen that other thread and tried to run with a new conspiracy long after the original had already been debunked.

section 4 b of the patch/update user agreement. just exactly what does it mean, may require you to pay to establish (i get this means buy the game) but MAINTAIN, and if u dont maintaion they can terminate account. may require payments on any such blah blah it deems appropriate? looks like a loophole to switch to subs.. (not a conspiracy nut, but, the way this is worded is weird.

i understand, pay to buy game, pay to buy expans, buy gems, but what is if deem appropriate, pay to maintain an account, blah blah..

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

Periodic Payments Related to Accounts, Service and Content – ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, require You to pay to establish or maintain any Account, to use any Service or to use any Content. You acknowledge that if You are required to do so, but do not, then ArenaNet may terminate Your Account under Section 3(b). You additionally acknowledge that ArenaNet may require such payments on any basis it deems appropriate in its reasonable discretion, including but not limited to any per-use or periodic basis (such as a number of hours, days or months). And You acknowledge that ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, establish the timing and form in which such payment must be made, including but not limited to credit cards or online payment services. EXCEPT FOR THE LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES OTHERWISE SET FORTH HEREIN, YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ARENANET HAS NO OBLIGATION TO REFUND ANY PAYMENTS, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, RELATED TO AN ACCOUNT WHETHER OR NOT SUCH PAYMENTS WERE MADE OR AUTHORIZED BY YOU, FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO INTERRUPTION OR UNAVAILABILITY OF SERVICE (SEE ALSO SECTION 10). YOU ACKNOWLEDGE, AND FURTHER AGREE, THAT ArenaNet MAY, IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION, TERMINATE UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 3(b) ANY ACCOUNT RELATED TO ANY ATTEMPT TO OBTAIN A REFUND OF ANY PAYMENTS, WHETHER SUCH ATTEMPTS ARE MADE BY CONTACTING AN ISSUER OF CREDIT CARDS OR OTHERWISE, AND THAT ARENANET MAY TAKE ANY OTHER ACTION IT DEEMS APPROPRIATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO RECOURSE BY WAY OF ANY COLLECTION AGENCY AND/OR CREDIT REPORTING AGENCY WHEN A REFUND HAS BEEN OBTAINED WITHOUT SIGNED WRITTEN CONSENT FROM A LEGALLY AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE OF ARENANET.

Not new and already a thread here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-EULA/first#post5414557

If anet tries to switch this game to subs it would be a death sentence for this game. The no sub fee is pretty much it’s main selling point. So I doubt it’ll ever happen.

Aguri.2896:

If anet tries to switch this game to subs it would be a death sentence for this game. The no sub fee is pretty much it’s main selling point. So I doubt it’ll ever happen.

They are not, click and read the link I posted

JediYoda.1275:

Aguri.2896:

If anet tries to switch this game to subs it would be a death sentence for this game. The no sub fee is pretty much it’s main selling point. So I doubt it’ll ever happen.

They are not, click and read the link I posted

I did. Also, notice the word “if” in my post.

tyvm, didnt see that…. /lockdeletethread

Gaile already explained in another thread that’s been in the user agreement since the release of GW1. Like a lot of the user agreement it’s a precautionary thing – it means Anet have the option to decide what payment methods they’ll use on a case-by-case basis, not that they are planning to use all (or any) of them.

There’s also something in there (2a) which says you are responsible for buying and maintaining the computer you use to play GW2. That doesn’t mean anyone has actually tried to make Anet buy them a computer, it’s just a precaution in case they try.

Anyway, a rough summary of section 4 is:

(a) Using the game requires an account. It is your responsibility to set this up and to follow the rules. Anet may make it possible to log into your account via a 3rd party service and if you do then Anet may collect data on you through that service (e.g. profile information). How this information is used is covered in the Privacy Policy. It is your responsibility to safeguard your account and any data related to it like your password. Anet will not ask for your login details by phone or email but you do need to provide it to login to the game.

(b) You may have to pay to set up or keep an account, or to use other content or services. You can be banned if you use content or services without paying. Anet can use any payment model they choose, for example per-use ((like Black Lion Keys)) or periodic (such as a number of hours or days) ((like the VIP system in China)). Anet can decide which forms of payment are allowed. ANET HAS NO OBLIGATION TO REFUND ANY PAYMENT. ANET CAN BAN YOU IF YOU TRY TO GET A REFUND VIA A CREDIT CARD CHARGE-BACK.

© You may be required to pay for patches, upgrades or other changes to the game. If you use these without paying you can be banned.

(d) You may get gems from Anet or authorised 3rd parties. Gems are a virtual currency which can be exchanged for other items, which may not be available otherwise. This system can be changed or discontinued at any time.

• (i) Anet decides the availability of gems and items bought with gems.
• (ii) You may have to pay real money to get gems.
• (iii) When you spend gems they are removed from your account. When you are banned any gems on your account are deleted.
• (iv) Anet decides which quantities of gems are available. You are resonsible for paying any tax required when buying gems.
• (v) Gems may be available as promotional items. Anet decides if purchased gems are used before promotional gems.
• (vi) Anet may choose to only allow accounts which follow all the rules to buy gems and may restict how many promotional gems you can get.
• (vii) Unless you live in Germany you acknowledge that gems have no real-world value, are not your personal property and Anet can add or remove gems from your account as they choose. You have no right to a refund for gems and Anet may restrict your access to gems or items bought with gems.

(e) Anet is not responsible for any payments you make to 3rd parties related to the game.

I find it more fascinating that it seems that instances of NCSoft are being replaced by ArenaNet. Is ArenaNet going to separate itself from NCSoft? They did mention an announcement that will change the future of Guild Wars 2.

I think what people are worried about is Anet have just thrown this out here and we don’t know what changes have been made to the EULA maybe if Anet describe why we had to agree to this new EULA changes people will be less worried.

Wwefan.4982:

I think what people are worried about is Anet have just thrown this out here and we don’t know what changes have been made to the EULA maybe if Anet describe why we had to agree to this new EULA changes people will be less worried.

I think, at least in Europe, it’s a legal requirement. If they change it they have to ask you to accept the new version before you start using the game. I’m not sure but I think they also have to show you the full text and not just the new bits, but I agree it would be helpful to have something showing the changes.

Other people in this thread have found and compared older versions however and they’ve said there are no major changes, it’s just the wording that’s changed, not the actual content.

Don’t ask about laws in Europe the EU are bad at keeping laws public.

Eh if anything changes then just stop playing the game, its that simple :p

they look like they are setting it up for possibly charging monthly!
quote:
Periodic Payments Related to Accounts, Service and Content – ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, require You to pay to establish or maintain any Account, to use any Service or to use any Content. You acknowledge that if You are required to do so, but do not, then ArenaNet may terminate Your Account under Section 3(b). You additionally acknowledge that ArenaNet may require such payments on any basis it deems appropriate in its reasonable discretion, including but not limited to any per-use or periodic basis (such as a number of hours, days or months). And You acknowledge that ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, establish the timing and form in which such payment must be made, including but not limited to credit cards or online payment services.
ALSO I THINK I READ: THAT ONLY ONE PERSON MAY USE THIS GAME, IF A MINOR USES IT, ONLY THAT MINOR CAN USE IT FROM THEN ON.

Kemver.3751:

they look like they are setting it up for possibly charging monthly!
quote:
Periodic Payments Related to Accounts, Service and Content – ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, require You to pay to establish or maintain any Account, to use any Service or to use any Content. You acknowledge that if You are required to do so, but do not, then ArenaNet may terminate Your Account under Section 3(b). You additionally acknowledge that ArenaNet may require such payments on any basis it deems appropriate in its reasonable discretion, including but not limited to any per-use or periodic basis (such as a number of hours, days or months). And You acknowledge that ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, establish the timing and form in which such payment must be made, including but not limited to credit cards or online payment services.
ALSO I THINK I READ: THAT ONLY ONE PERSON MAY USE THIS GAME, IF A MINOR USES IT, ONLY THAT MINOR CAN USE IT FROM THEN ON.

For the Nth time, was already there since the beginning.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-EULA/first#post5414364

Forum bug, she’s on it.