New Infinity Tools Op
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
Fine, then they are mechanically better. Which makes those P2W accusations uncomfortably close to being real. (yeah yeah, gold->gems, don’t really need or whatever counter-fluff) I’m not actually claiming P2W, but I can see how it’d be construed.
As it is, I’m not getting the UM set because I already have unlimited tools, and the ROI to paying 787g to get them is ridiculously low. Also, Watchwork, which has done more than pay for itself since I bought it when it was first released.
And I appreciate my harvesting tool’s improved gathering speed, which is also mechanically better. It also doesn’t make obnoxious clown/o-tron noises…
Aesthetics may play into me buying a glitterbomb one anyway if it goes on sale. The UM isn’t so important to me there.
But I want that logging axe. It is, again, mechanically better, and I don’t overly care what it looks like so long as it can help me fast-forward my alts into stat-choice-selected Ascended trinkets.
All that said, I’m not bitter at ANet for releasing these. Actually, I wouldn’t mind if every tool gained some kind of bonus. Maybe go back through the purchases of the basic tools, drop those to 800gem and return the excess 200gem as an act of good will.
Sounds a bit twisted and P2W-ish, but I don’t mind giving ANet the cash, especially if they revamp the UI to make gathering tools and their infusions worthwhile.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
(edited by Rauderi.8706)
Astralporing, you’re claiming the studio made a formal statement to the effect that there would be no more gathering tool buffs. Can you or anyone else provide that statement?
Not quite. That statement i speak of is older than watchwork pick, and was made at the time the first infinite tool (molten pickaxe) appeared. At that time the cost was considered to be quite high, so people that considered buying it were asking if they can be sure that if it always remain the best mining option. The answer was, that it would. To be honest, the thing people were most concerned then was a possibility of tier 7 nodes, and whether the tools will cover those as well, but the questions were a bit more general. And so was the answer, as far as i remember.
That statement was one of the reasons behind watchwork pick outrage, by the way.
(unfortunately i haven’t found it, it’s rather old at the moment and the search function at this forum is not helping).
Here is a thread from long ago, almost identical to this thread, about Infinite Gathering Tools. It also references the ‘statement’, but it wasn’t a quote by the Devs, but the ‘copy’ that advertised the (specific?) Infinite Gathering Tool(s).
this is the last pick you will ever need to buy
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Refund-on-Molten-Alliance-Mining-Pick/first
Good luck.
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
I have no idea how else to explain this.
They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.
These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.
I just checked my account. Since acquiring the set of UM tools, I’ve collected 1800 UM this week without setting foot in a map that would provide UM. That’s doing basic dailies and spending most of my time in WvW, which ain’t got lots of nodes. I did take a spin through an incredibly empty EotM map, and made sure to gather any nodes that showed on the mini map.
1800 “free” UM in 3 days? They are totally worth the cost to me.
I would cast my vote for separating gathering tools skins and functionality. Like some have stated, I will choose the tools that provide the most benefit. But like others have pointed out, it would be nice if I could choose the look and benefit separately, especially if more benefit choices are offered going forward. I’m not overly concerned with how fast they are, though I like the “multi-hit” of these new tools and hope that gets applied to them all.
Here is the funny part about this thread.
3 years ago we got the Sprocket mining pick and all the complainers made the exact same arguments, going so far as to say the thing should be removed from the game, even at the cost of lost gems to the players. Anyone with a shred of common sense knew that such an item wasn’t going anywhere and if Anet was smart, they would release more.
So be rest assured that if you have a problem with “paying 2 win” or whatever other far out argument you might have against these kinds of items or trying to get a refund/exchange, it’s impact on the devs is very low to absolutely nothing.
It takes so long to break-even with the new infinite gathering tools that players that have other versions are better off using the ones from the LS3 maps.
Using a Gold-per-hour tool the other night, I looked at how much money I would make on a typical harvesting run (which takes roughly an hour).
Currently, according to GW2 Efficiency, it would cost you 786g to purchase 2800gems (100 more than the value of the tools). Going by just the harvested items on my 1 hour run (ignoring any loot gained along the way from mobs or such), the total time it would take to gain the gold required to make up for the purchase would be roughly 1 hour per day for around 120 days. That’s without any gathering boosts.
Yes, you have to make sure you do harvesting runs, or that you harvest any node you come across when out in the open world, and yes doing such things 120days straight is not likely.
Having the tools pay for themselves and move into being profitable however would still take less than a year if you are lazy about it.
I do wish that Anet would make it a company rule that if you design/code/whatever a special harvesting tool, that it does not make it into the game unless it is a full set. The one-offs are nice, but, for example, I’d have loved to see a matching sickle and pick to go with the Frost Wasp logging tool.
Where are my gem sales? I want gem sales! Nerf EVERYTHING!
I have several unlimited mining tools scattered across my various alts, but I never feel compelled to use any of them aside from my watchwork pick. As long as sprockets hold their value, none of my other mining tools will see significant use…and I can’t stand it.
The unbound tools don’t bother me as much, both because I don’t really need that much unbound magic, and because finite versions can be bought with karma.
Dat mining tool tho…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1daGIebkZRc
Those armadillos would be a lot cooler if they looked more like real armadillos. mmm armadillos
-BnooMaGoo.5690
-BnooMaGoo.5690
(edited by Quarktastic.1027)
A large part of this game is centered around cosmetics.
I don’t know if you realise this, but this is the main argument for why something should be done about some infinite gathering tools having better functionality than others. Just like you stated, this game is centered around cosmetics.
This is exactly why we can use transmutation charges to change the looks of our armor and weapons. If this wasn’t the case, you would see a very large portion of the playerbase doing content in a full standard ascended set. In fact, these tools are like the ascended versions of the normal infinite gathering tools, with the only difference being in that you cannot reskin them.
At the very least, gathering tools should unlock their skin, so that you can skin over other gathering tools. Otherwise, an alternative would be to unlock unique gathering tool perks instead. So if I had both a watchwork pick and an unbound one, I could select the get either sprockets or UM from any pickaxe I have in my possession. This would still make UM and watchwork tool purchases the superior choice, but at least more people would use the other tools for their skins.
I admit, I bought the set because I need unbound magic, hate getting one at a time from gliding about LWS3 zones but I’m hooked on unlimited tools so I wouldn’t ever stock up on the karma version. I gathered more UM in 15 minutes than several hours in Bloodstone Fen. My old unlimited tools are now on another level 80 character.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
I have no idea how else to explain this.
They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.
You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.
It takes so long to break-even with the new infinite gathering tools that players that have other versions are better off using the ones from the LS3 maps.
Using a Gold-per-hour tool the other night, I looked at how much money I would make on a typical harvesting run (which takes roughly an hour).
Currently, according to GW2 Efficiency, it would cost you 786g to purchase 2800gems (100 more than the value of the tools). Going by just the harvested items on my 1 hour run (ignoring any loot gained along the way from mobs or such), the total time it would take to gain the gold required to make up for the purchase would be roughly 1 hour per day for around 120 days. That’s without any gathering boosts.
Yes, you have to make sure you do harvesting runs, or that you harvest any node you come across when out in the open world, and yes doing such things 120days straight is not likely.
Having the tools pay for themselves and move into being profitable however would still take less than a year if you are lazy about it.I do wish that Anet would make it a company rule that if you design/code/whatever a special harvesting tool, that it does not make it into the game unless it is a full set. The one-offs are nice, but, for example, I’d have loved to see a matching sickle and pick to go with the Frost Wasp logging tool.
Doubtful. You can’t use gathered items that you would have otherwise gotten using regularly gathering tools.
And yet, with the new expansion there will be some some other form of resource to gather and ANet will dish out another set of Infinite Tools for that resource and the unbound ones will become obsolete too. Perhaps a year from now nobody will have any reason to own these ones and the argument will start all over again.
Nothing changes. This is still an MMO and you can still farm what you need. It’s an extra convenience sure but at some point you’ll have more unbound magic than you can use.
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
I have no idea how else to explain this.
They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.
You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.
What he describes are the only, other than cost, measurable, quantifiable, aspects of the tools’ value.
few weeks ago i was talking to a guildy about this i needed infinity unbound magic tools. and then they finally came to the story. price kitteng 35 euro or 600+ gold.
they are crazy with those prices. we players may not even have some fun without paying so much gold or real life cash. i liked the game very much but i get disappionted very often. treasure mushroom i dont get the boot box. all events i do i get trash loot. i do tequatl i get spoon and no ascended box.
i got angry i go to the forum to check what other think and then i read someone looted the chak egg sac…
my main game is ruined. i go play gw2. but i dont have fun anymore. only thing i like is chatting with guildys. maybe i must take a break.
and someone told me the gathering tools are gone next week. i cant get 600 gold in a week playing.
srry if bad language but with this unlucky playing ppl get angry.
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
I have no idea how else to explain this.
They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.
You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.
So? The tools have one aspect that is subjective, and several aspects that can be objectively judged. The subjective aspect will change from person to person, but the objective aspects will always remain superior to all other tools (except the mining pick, which shares the same problem). There isn’t even a single aspect of the older infinite tools where they’d hold objective superiority. It does not balance at all.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Here is the funny part about this thread.
3 years ago we got the Sprocket mining pick and all the complainers made the exact same arguments, going so far as to say the thing should be removed from the game, even at the cost of lost gems to the players. Anyone with a shred of common sense knew that such an item wasn’t going anywhere and if Anet was smart, they would release more.
So be rest assured that if you have a problem with “paying 2 win” or whatever other far out argument you might have against these kinds of items or trying to get a refund/exchange, it’s impact on the devs is very low to absolutely nothing.
The studio should release more buffs for harvesting tools; players obviously want them. Doesn’t change the fact that this product line is poorly designed. Bundling the buff with cosmetics makes it more difficult for any given player to find optimal value in the product line. As currently designed, the only players that find optimal value are those whose cosmetic choice and buff choice align with how the studio chooses to bundle them. It would be a shame if that argument made no impact.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
I have no idea how else to explain this.
They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.
You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.
You can obfuscate as much as you like, but it is clear that a tool with a gathering buff is functionally superior to a gathering tool without. Given the choice between two similarly priced tools with the same cosmetics, one with and one without a buff, a rational consumer would choose the one with the buff. Your focus on player value finding rings hollow. You are defending a product line that makes it harder for the player base to find value.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
I support suggestions that all infinite tools (except watchwork pic, leave that as is) should be upgraded to give U/B magic to standardize them and bring them on a par. That way, all infinite tools would be equally viable and desirable, instead of basically making the old tools obsolete where no one will want to buy them, except perhaps the unaware. Players then can comfortably choose a set that appeals to them for customizing their look, rather than only buying the one that gives them extra benefits. U/B magic is a pretty standard currency now, required for lot of stuff and it makes sense to upgrade those other tools to match.
P2w game yo, I didn’t sign up for this.
Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
Fine, then they are mechanically better. Which makes those P2W accusations uncomfortably close to being real. (yeah yeah, gold->gems, don’t really need or whatever counter-fluff) I’m not actually claiming P2W, but I can see how it’d be construed.
As it is, I’m not getting the UM set because I already have unlimited tools, and the ROI to paying 787g to get them is ridiculously low. Also, Watchwork, which has done more than pay for itself since I bought it when it was first released.
And I appreciate my harvesting tool’s improved gathering speed, which is also mechanically better. It also doesn’t make obnoxious clown/o-tron noises…
Aesthetics may play into me buying a glitterbomb one anyway if it goes on sale. The UM isn’t so important to me there.But I want that logging axe. It is, again, mechanically better, and I don’t overly care what it looks like so long as it can help me fast-forward my alts into stat-choice-selected Ascended trinkets.
All that said, I’m not bitter at ANet for releasing these. Actually, I wouldn’t mind if every tool gained some kind of bonus. Maybe go back through the purchases of the basic tools, drop those to 800gem and return the excess 200gem as an act of good will.
Sounds a bit twisted and P2W-ish, but I don’t mind giving ANet the cash, especially if they revamp the UI to make gathering tools and their infusions worthwhile.
It MIGHT be construed as pay to win if you couldn’t already get unbound gathering tools with karma, but you can.
Thus there’s no advantage except for the convenience of unlimited.
i worked very hard and i made some gold. en further i bought 2000 gems i finally have the tools now. i am happy with it.
Here is the funny part about this thread.
3 years ago we got the Sprocket mining pick and all the complainers made the exact same arguments, going so far as to say the thing should be removed from the game, even at the cost of lost gems to the players. Anyone with a shred of common sense knew that such an item wasn’t going anywhere and if Anet was smart, they would release more.
So be rest assured that if you have a problem with “paying 2 win” or whatever other far out argument you might have against these kinds of items or trying to get a refund/exchange, it’s impact on the devs is very low to absolutely nothing.
The studio should release more buffs for harvesting tools; players obviously want them. Doesn’t change the fact that this product line is poorly designed. Bundling the buff with cosmetics makes it more difficult for any given player to find optimal value in the product line. As currently designed, the only players that find optimal value are those whose cosmetic choice and buff choice align with how the studio chooses to bundle them. It would be a shame if that argument made no impact.
Perhaps, but that’s what Anet has demonstrated to us for the last 4 years now. I don’t doubt this is a business decision, not a pragmatic one.
P2w game yo, I didn’t sign up for this.
You have been ‘signing up’ for it the day watchwork pick was released … it’s a problem for you just now? That’s not really an honest assessment of what you think is it?
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
I have no idea how else to explain this.
They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.
You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.
What he describes are the only, other than cost, measurable, quantifiable, aspects of the tools’ value.
And? They’re but one aspect that goes towards the value of an item. Look at items such as Rodgort and Flanes of War. A lot of people, including some in this very thread, would argue that one is better than the other and yet neither has a ‘measurable, quantifiable’ difference to the other.
There are people who are treating quantifiable data as the only means to evaluate as item and calling anything that doesn’t match up as inferior. That just isn’t true.
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
I have no idea how else to explain this.
They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.
You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.
You can obfuscate as much as you like, but it is clear that a tool with a gathering buff is functionally superior to a gathering tool without. Given the choice between two similarly priced tools with the same cosmetics, one with and one without a buff, a rational consumer would choose the one with the buff. Your focus on player value finding rings hollow. You are defending a product line that makes it harder for the player base to find value.
Except neither have the same cosmetics and different cosmetics appeal to different people. There are people that hold more way to the aesthetics of an item to its functional value just as there are people that hold more value over it’s function than its aesthetics. You then have people in between.
You obviously are on the side that values functionality over aesthetics and are making a claim that other items are inferior. I’m arguing that that claim is subjective. You can take objective, subjective, or both qualities and and form a subjective opinion about the value of an item.
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
Fine, then they are mechanically better. Which makes those P2W accusations uncomfortably close to being real. (yeah yeah, gold->gems, don’t really need or whatever counter-fluff) I’m not actually claiming P2W, but I can see how it’d be construed.
As it is, I’m not getting the UM set because I already have unlimited tools, and the ROI to paying 787g to get them is ridiculously low. Also, Watchwork, which has done more than pay for itself since I bought it when it was first released.
And I appreciate my harvesting tool’s improved gathering speed, which is also mechanically better. It also doesn’t make obnoxious clown/o-tron noises…
Aesthetics may play into me buying a glitterbomb one anyway if it goes on sale. The UM isn’t so important to me there.But I want that logging axe. It is, again, mechanically better, and I don’t overly care what it looks like so long as it can help me fast-forward my alts into stat-choice-selected Ascended trinkets.
All that said, I’m not bitter at ANet for releasing these. Actually, I wouldn’t mind if every tool gained some kind of bonus. Maybe go back through the purchases of the basic tools, drop those to 800gem and return the excess 200gem as an act of good will.
Sounds a bit twisted and P2W-ish, but I don’t mind giving ANet the cash, especially if they revamp the UI to make gathering tools and their infusions worthwhile.It MIGHT be construed as pay to win if you couldn’t already get unbound gathering tools with karma, but you can.
Thus there’s no advantage except for the convenience of unlimited.
Yes there is an advantage, so much so, i feel shafted for the 2nd time. First when they released the watchwork pick and now this.
I bought multiple infinite tool sets for each of my characters with real money and paid the full price for them, not discounted as these new ones are. Now i’m supposed to keep spending my karma to get the same advantage these new tools offer? And while i’m using these karma tools my other infinite tools just sit there gathering dust? How’s that fair?
These karma tools cost a lot of karma and don’t last long. You may have lot of karma but not everyone does and that’s beside the point. As a player who’s been supporting this company since launch and bought many sets of original infinite tools as well as others since, i actually feel lied to, as Anet assured us those tools will always remain the best. Being able to buy these new tools with karma does not excuse them and even less so when there’s an easy fix. Just as i mentioned in the few posts above, make all tools give u/b magic, that would make everyone happy and create fairness for all.
P2w game yo, I didn’t sign up for this.
You have been ‘signing up’ for it the day watchwork pick was released … it’s a problem for you just now? That’s not really an honest assessment of what you think is it?
Foolish comparison. Watchwork sporcket is a not so valuable currency elsewhere unbound magic is required for the many selectable ascended trinkets and some recipes. Furthermore, the gathering tool purchasable from those vendors are merely half the quantity which signify the value of such a tool. Are you trying hard to justify p2w contents?
Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
(edited by SkyShroud.2865)
Foolish comparison. Watchwork sporcket is a not so valuable currency elsewhere unbound magic is required for the many selectable ascended trinkets and some recipes.
It’s only the secondary currency, the primary currency is still the zone’s specific harvesting material, like winterberries and blood rubies.
Furthermore, the gathering tool purchasable from those vendors are merely half the quantity which signify the value of such a tool. Are you trying hard to justify p2w contents?
It’s never pay to win if an equal substitute already exists ingame, it’s called pay2convenience
Foolish comparison. Watchwork sporcket is a not so valuable currency elsewhere unbound magic is required for the many selectable ascended trinkets and some recipes.
It’s only the secondary currency, the primary currency is still the zone’s specific harvesting material, like winterberries and blood rubies.
Furthermore, the gathering tool purchasable from those vendors are merely half the quantity which signify the value of such a tool. Are you trying hard to justify p2w contents?
It’s never pay to win if an equal substitute already exists ingame, it’s called pay2convenience
You are trying really hard to justify it, you should play f2p game if that’s how you think.
Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
I have no idea how else to explain this.
They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.
You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.
What he describes are the only, other than cost, measurable, quantifiable, aspects of the tools’ value.
And? They’re but one aspect that goes towards the value of an item. Look at items such as Rodgort and Flanes of War. A lot of people, including some in this very thread, would argue that one is better than the other and yet neither has a ‘measurable, quantifiable’ difference to the other.
That’s true when comparing rodgort’s with Flames of War. Previous infinite tools compared to unbound magic ones however do have such quantifable differences.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
I have no idea how else to explain this.
They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.
You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.
You can obfuscate as much as you like, but it is clear that a tool with a gathering buff is functionally superior to a gathering tool without. Given the choice between two similarly priced tools with the same cosmetics, one with and one without a buff, a rational consumer would choose the one with the buff. Your focus on player value finding rings hollow. You are defending a product line that makes it harder for the player base to find value.
Except neither have the same cosmetics and different cosmetics appeal to different people. There are people that hold more way to the aesthetics of an item to its functional value just as there are people that hold more value over it’s function than its aesthetics. You then have people in between.
You obviously are on the side that values functionality over aesthetics and are making a claim that other items are inferior. I’m arguing that that claim is subjective. You can take objective, subjective, or both qualities and and form a subjective opinion about the value of an item.
And the players who prefer one aesthetic option get an objectively superior item. Tbe exact situation that gw2’s wardrobe was designed to avoid.
Want the best numbers ? You’re stuck with this aesthetic.
Kind of the antithesis of what gw2’s cosmetics model was supposed to be about.
Did ArenaNet really say ’These Gathering Tools are the best ever"? Or did they say, “You will never need another set of Gathering Tools” and “These tools will always gather all gathering materials, no matter the Tier”?
Foolish comparison. Watchwork sporcket is a not so valuable currency elsewhere unbound magic is required for the many selectable ascended trinkets and some recipes.
It’s only the secondary currency, the primary currency is still the zone’s specific harvesting material, like winterberries and blood rubies.
Furthermore, the gathering tool purchasable from those vendors are merely half the quantity which signify the value of such a tool. Are you trying hard to justify p2w contents?
It’s never pay to win if an equal substitute already exists ingame, it’s called pay2convenience
You are trying really hard to justify it, you should play f2p game if that’s how you think.
you are trying really hard to justiy this as p2w as he/she said i can get them in game already and unlike the watchsprout ones these i cant sell on the tp for gold ^^
I was thinking after i saw how ppl were crying p2w and other nonsense of an alternative for the bonuses on gathering tools. I came up with infusions for gathering tools. These are only obtainable through the gem store and can be only equiped by infinite gathering tools (i infusion slot).
These will give the um drops or the watchwork sprouts etc (or even other stuff in the future).
The ones that have these effects by defualt could be changed to instead have an infusion bundled with them and then if you dnt like the effect or w/e you can use an infusion exctractor to remove it and add it to some other infinite tool.
These infusions will be sold seperately (or maybe on bundles with certain infinite gathering tools)
I’d like that.
They should have a wardrobe and be selling skins and infusions instead of items. They’d have more sales that way.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
you are trying really hard to justiy this as p2w as he/she said i can get them in game already and unlike the watchsprout ones these i cant sell on the tp for gold ^^
Not quite, I’m afraid. Firstly, the unlimited tools, as I mentioned on page 1 of this thread, differ quite greatly from the “free” tools in terms of harvesting speed:
1. The Mining tool actually harvests 4 times, compared to the usual 3, all in one quick burst near the end of the animation.
2. The Logging tool likewise also harvests 4 times, compared to the usual 3, although the cast time is identical to normal logging tools.
3. The Harvesting tool actually harvests 3 strikes in a single go. You won’t see any difference on normal plant nodes in the wild, but if you’re, say, harvesting from your guild hall plant nodes, it will actually harvest all 3 strikes at once, saving you having to do it three times.
So someone who buys the unlimited tools is actually getting a faster version of the free tools, which work the same as standard tools.
Secondly, you can still turn the UBM into gold by buying Magic-Warped Packets/Bundles and then selling the contents. I’d recommend the Rare version, since they usually give 10 T6 mats, which is an average return of 1.5 – 2g for 500 Unbound Magic.
I have old gathering tools and I’m happy with them. I’m sitting on 300k UM and I don’t think I’ll ever need that many. UM is kind of overrated… Even if we need it in the expansion, I can just run around and eat berries… -shrugs-
Idk about that alot of ppl pay for the convenience the items have tho since they are a godsent if you farm mats regularly.
Foolish comparison. Watchwork sporcket is a not so valuable currency elsewhere unbound magic is required for the many selectable ascended trinkets and some recipes.
It’s only the secondary currency, the primary currency is still the zone’s specific harvesting material, like winterberries and blood rubies.
Furthermore, the gathering tool purchasable from those vendors are merely half the quantity which signify the value of such a tool. Are you trying hard to justify p2w contents?
It’s never pay to win if an equal substitute already exists ingame, it’s called pay2convenience
You are trying really hard to justify it, you should play f2p game if that’s how you think.
no, because ion a F2P game the money store usually sells stuff that gives a boost that ISN’T already available in the game, meaning a UNIQUE boost and not just a convenience boost. and how is applying common sense “trying really hard”
I have old gathering tools and I’m happy with them. I’m sitting on 300k UM and I don’t think I’ll ever need that many. UM is kind of overrated… Even if we need it in the expansion, I can just run around and eat berries… -shrugs-
that’s 600 Magically Warped Packs you’re sitting on. (given you also supply 600 gold) you can potentially net 300-1500g[sup]*1[/sup] depending on your luck.
You don’t even need 600g, since you can buy them in rounds, sell the contents, and have more gold each round.
*1: very rough estimate
Foolish comparison. Watchwork sporcket is a not so valuable currency elsewhere unbound magic is required for the many selectable ascended trinkets and some recipes.
It’s only the secondary currency, the primary currency is still the zone’s specific harvesting material, like winterberries and blood rubies.
Furthermore, the gathering tool purchasable from those vendors are merely half the quantity which signify the value of such a tool. Are you trying hard to justify p2w contents?
It’s never pay to win if an equal substitute already exists ingame, it’s called pay2convenience
You are trying really hard to justify it, you should play f2p game if that’s how you think.
no, because ion a F2P game the money store usually sells stuff that gives a boost that ISN’T already available in the game, meaning a UNIQUE boost and not just a convenience boost. and how is applying common sense “trying really hard”
Then the number of f2p games you have played is limited. There are plenty of f2p games, some of which allow you to purchase things through cash, things that are already available in game thus claiming it is unique is false.
This so-called convenience isn’t just convenience, it is giving players a clear advantage in terms of farming speed. An average player has to go back and forth numerous time, even more times compare to normal tools due to half quantity. The unlimited gathering tool can harvest faster than normal tool. The time difference is already a clear cut advantage.
You are trying hard to justify the tool, even sugar coating it as convenience.
Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
Foolish comparison. Watchwork sporcket is a not so valuable currency elsewhere unbound magic is required for the many selectable ascended trinkets and some recipes.
It’s only the secondary currency, the primary currency is still the zone’s specific harvesting material, like winterberries and blood rubies.
Furthermore, the gathering tool purchasable from those vendors are merely half the quantity which signify the value of such a tool. Are you trying hard to justify p2w contents?
It’s never pay to win if an equal substitute already exists ingame, it’s called pay2convenience
You are trying really hard to justify it, you should play f2p game if that’s how you think.
no, because ion a F2P game the money store usually sells stuff that gives a boost that ISN’T already available in the game, meaning a UNIQUE boost and not just a convenience boost. and how is applying common sense “trying really hard”
Then the number of f2p games you have played is limited. There are plenty of f2p games, some of which allow you to purchase things through cash, things that are already available in game thus claiming it is unique is false.
This so-called convenience isn’t just convenience, it is giving players a clear advantage in terms of farming speed. An average player has to go back and forth numerous time, even more times compare to normal tools due to half quantity. The unlimited gathering tool can harvest faster than normal tool. The time difference is already a clear cut advantage.
You are trying hard to justify the tool, even sugar coating it as convenience.
time doesn’t equal oppertunity, it’s not sugarcoating it, time is a form of convenience. I paid for the MINI-speed boost, I mean, what, 1-2 seconds a rich node? 99.9% of the time in farming will still be the walking between nodes, rather the mining itself. The difference can hardly be felt on a single node. Besides, would you suffer from another player saving 1 second on a rich node? would it harm your farming? no, and why? because nodes aren’t competitive. You can still get all the same resources as the buyers’ do, they just paid 35 euros for a 1 second boost. I really cannot in any justifiable way call it more than convenience
You can also buy swiftness and +5% damage boosts in the gem store, so by your logic this game was p2w since beta.
(edited by Amaimon.7823)
The tools do give give a p2w advantage. Players who buy the tools no longer have to go out of their way to get tools to collect unbound magic or carry an extra set for when they run out. They can just farm as they travel with no thought to UM. Then they can go buy a bunch of Magic-Warped Bundles which usually gives back at least the gold spend and can give over 8 gold if items are sold on the trading post, or be able to craft Legendary items with things bought with UM and sell them on the TP. I am not a smart man and maybe I am seeing this wrong. As soon as I can afford them, I will either be getting the Unlimited Unbound Magic Tools or a new game to play. Haven’t decided yet.
(given you also supply 600 gold) you can potentially net 300-1500g[sup]*1[/sup] depending on your luck
In other words, I could lose Gold. No thanks, I don’t gamble. :P RNG hates me!
(given you also supply 600 gold) you can potentially net 300-1500g[sup]*1[/sup] depending on your luck
In other words, I could lose Gold. No thanks, I don’t gamble. :P RNG hates me!
that’s a very small odd, as more than 50% of the loot table is worth more than 1g.
If statistics are fair, you profit 1.5-2g on every 1g spend, so thats 0.5/1.5g per bag profit.
If you buy that many bags I find it inconceivable to lose money. Statistically speaking, you’d be dancing with rodgort if that happened
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
I have no idea how else to explain this.
They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.
You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.
You can obfuscate as much as you like, but it is clear that a tool with a gathering buff is functionally superior to a gathering tool without. Given the choice between two similarly priced tools with the same cosmetics, one with and one without a buff, a rational consumer would choose the one with the buff. Your focus on player value finding rings hollow. You are defending a product line that makes it harder for the player base to find value.
Except neither have the same cosmetics and different cosmetics appeal to different people. There are people that hold more way to the aesthetics of an item to its functional value just as there are people that hold more value over it’s function than its aesthetics. You then have people in between.
You obviously are on the side that values functionality over aesthetics and are making a claim that other items are inferior. I’m arguing that that claim is subjective. You can take objective, subjective, or both qualities and and form a subjective opinion about the value of an item.
Please stop. Competitive free markets work because rational, informed consumers find value in better quality products, more productive products, more productive product lines. Your argument is of that corrosive to reason type; that opinion rules all.
You are correct that the new harvesting buffs don’t make existing tools without a buff necessarily obsolete to everyone. Instead, the buffs make something more important obsolete; the freedom to choose an aesthetic and maintain optimal harvesting tool productivity. In case you don’t recognize it, the freedom to choose an aesthetic is the quality that you keep mentioning is an important way players find value.
In general, I do value function more than aesthetics. If you ever saw me and how I dress, that would be obvious. That has no bearing on my argument here. My criticism of the harvesting tool product line is directed at how features are bundled.
A gem shop salvaging tool that separates a harvesting buff from its animation priced the same as a stand alone buff would preserve the freedom to choose an aesthetic and maintain optimal harvesting productivity. If a high gem cost, limited time offer is still necessary; then perhaps bundling buffs and skins would serve.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
The gathering tool product line is a humunculus. If harvesting buffs were offered as a separate product, most of the complaints would disappear and players who are invested in the aesthetics of their existing infinite tools would be able to maintain their aesthetic.
With the gem/ gold exchange, gathering tools with buffs are no more P2W than any other item in the game that can be purchased with gold.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
Foolish comparison. Watchwork sporcket is a not so valuable currency elsewhere unbound magic is required for the many selectable ascended trinkets and some recipes.
It’s only the secondary currency, the primary currency is still the zone’s specific harvesting material, like winterberries and blood rubies.
Furthermore, the gathering tool purchasable from those vendors are merely half the quantity which signify the value of such a tool. Are you trying hard to justify p2w contents?
It’s never pay to win if an equal substitute already exists ingame, it’s called pay2convenience
You are trying really hard to justify it, you should play f2p game if that’s how you think.
no, because ion a F2P game the money store usually sells stuff that gives a boost that ISN’T already available in the game, meaning a UNIQUE boost and not just a convenience boost. and how is applying common sense “trying really hard”
Then the number of f2p games you have played is limited. There are plenty of f2p games, some of which allow you to purchase things through cash, things that are already available in game thus claiming it is unique is false.
This so-called convenience isn’t just convenience, it is giving players a clear advantage in terms of farming speed. An average player has to go back and forth numerous time, even more times compare to normal tools due to half quantity. The unlimited gathering tool can harvest faster than normal tool. The time difference is already a clear cut advantage.
You are trying hard to justify the tool, even sugar coating it as convenience.
time doesn’t equal oppertunity, it’s not sugarcoating it, time is a form of convenience. I paid for the MINI-speed boost, I mean, what, 1-2 seconds a rich node? 99.9% of the time in farming will still be the walking between nodes, rather the mining itself. The difference can hardly be felt on a single node. Besides, would you suffer from another player saving 1 second on a rich node? would it harm your farming? no, and why? because nodes aren’t competitive. You can still get all the same resources as the buyers’ do, they just paid 35 euros for a 1 second boost. I really cannot in any justifiable way call it more than convenience
You can also buy swiftness and +5% damage boosts in the gem store, so by your logic this game was p2w since beta.
When time accumulate, it is something, that is logic. Your’s is just personal opinion using logic as a pretense. Furthermore, you don’t understand logic either. While those swiftness and whatever boosts do give advantage to the players, it doesn’t affect the gameplay negatively as it is only usable in pve context elsewhere this gathering tool has long term effects.
Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
Foolish comparison. Watchwork sporcket is a not so valuable currency elsewhere unbound magic is required for the many selectable ascended trinkets and some recipes.
It’s only the secondary currency, the primary currency is still the zone’s specific harvesting material, like winterberries and blood rubies.
Furthermore, the gathering tool purchasable from those vendors are merely half the quantity which signify the value of such a tool. Are you trying hard to justify p2w contents?
It’s never pay to win if an equal substitute already exists ingame, it’s called pay2convenience
You are trying really hard to justify it, you should play f2p game if that’s how you think.
no, because ion a F2P game the money store usually sells stuff that gives a boost that ISN’T already available in the game, meaning a UNIQUE boost and not just a convenience boost. and how is applying common sense “trying really hard”
Then the number of f2p games you have played is limited. There are plenty of f2p games, some of which allow you to purchase things through cash, things that are already available in game thus claiming it is unique is false.
This so-called convenience isn’t just convenience, it is giving players a clear advantage in terms of farming speed. An average player has to go back and forth numerous time, even more times compare to normal tools due to half quantity. The unlimited gathering tool can harvest faster than normal tool. The time difference is already a clear cut advantage.
You are trying hard to justify the tool, even sugar coating it as convenience.
time doesn’t equal oppertunity, it’s not sugarcoating it, time is a form of convenience. I paid for the MINI-speed boost, I mean, what, 1-2 seconds a rich node? 99.9% of the time in farming will still be the walking between nodes, rather the mining itself. The difference can hardly be felt on a single node. Besides, would you suffer from another player saving 1 second on a rich node? would it harm your farming? no, and why? because nodes aren’t competitive. You can still get all the same resources as the buyers’ do, they just paid 35 euros for a 1 second boost. I really cannot in any justifiable way call it more than convenience
You can also buy swiftness and +5% damage boosts in the gem store, so by your logic this game was p2w since beta.When time accumulate, it is something, that is logic. Your’s is just personal opinion using logic as a pretense. Furthermore, you don’t understand logic either. While those swiftness and whatever boosts do give advantage to the players, it doesn’t affect the gameplay negatively as it is only usable in pve context elsewhere this gathering tool has long term effects.
and why do the boosts I mention not have a long term effect?
if a player has 5% more damage, doesn’t that mean he kills everything 5% faster, and therefore has that time to do more stuff which will allow him to get more loot? and you say they don’t affect the gameplay negatively, well, I say, neither do these gathering tools