Guild Wars 2

Rongy.2569:

In addition to the new mystic forge recipe, anyone figure out the other new one that seems to promote the sigil/rune to the next tier?

So far for the Major Sigil/Rune I have found:
Mystic Coins
Major Sigil/Rune
Pristine Snowflake

I have no idea what the last piece is, has anyone figured this out?

t5 dust for that one

replace with t1 mats for minors→majors

Lishtenbird.2814:

Gaile Gray.6029:

while it usually will produce a gift box, may produce one of those valuable tonics, instead!

I wonder which part of this 15 page thread about RNG and this 13 page thread about Halloween mini, or the multiple threads about Black Lion Chests, Mystic Forge and Tequatl weapons made the designers think that players love RNG.

Because even if they made it a guaranteed item if you put in [x] number of items for, players would complain that it’s too grindy.

Make it an item easily attainable, and people complain it’s not special when everyone has it.

What’s your suggestion that pleases everyone? Because I (and I’m sure Arena.net) would love to hear it.

Liadri was reward behind challenge….novel concept.

Essence Snow.3194:

Liadri was reward behind challenge….novel concept.

And how many people were pitching a fit because it was “too hard?” I remember several threads complaining about it.

Most of those complaints stemmed from artificial difficulty, things like bad camera angles with the dome.

What old recipe? I just crafted all of my tonics today (without the hassle of RNG!). Is there a reason why people can’t craft the tonics (barring the ones that were mystic forge only already)?

chemiclord.3978:

Make it an item easily attainable, and people complain it’s not special when everyone has it.

We can ignore those people and have fun. Honestly, I figured that out as a kid when it came to toys.

Palador.2170:

chemiclord.3978:

Make it an item easily attainable, and people complain it’s not special when everyone has it.

We can ignore those people and have fun. Honestly, I figured that out as a kid when it came to toys.

That would be great, wouldn’t – it?

Yet I have yet to see ANY MMO developer go that route consistently. I suspect it’s because far too many people demand rarity and exclusiveness. Too many people want to feel special and unique.

chemiclord.3978:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Gaile Gray.6029:

while it usually will produce a gift box, may produce one of those valuable tonics, instead!

I wonder which part of this 15 page thread about RNG and this 13 page thread about Halloween mini, or the multiple threads about Black Lion Chests, Mystic Forge and Tequatl weapons made the designers think that players love RNG.

Because even if they made it a guaranteed item if you put in [x] number of items for, players would complain that it’s too grindy.

Make it an item easily attainable, and people complain it’s not special when everyone has it.

What’s your suggestion that pleases everyone? Because I (and I’m sure Arena.net) would love to hear it.

this guy gets it

chemiclord.3978:

Palador.2170:

chemiclord.3978:

Make it an item easily attainable, and people complain it’s not special when everyone has it.

We can ignore those people and have fun. Honestly, I figured that out as a kid when it came to toys.

That would be great, wouldn’t – it?

Yet I have yet to see ANY MMO developer go that route consistently. I suspect it’s because far too many people demand rarity and exclusiveness. Too many people want to feel special and unique.

Guess what, most of those people won’t be unique and special either way – for obvious reasons. In the end RNG based rarity derived value is something that satisfies the few at the cost of the many – and that’s by the design. The only reason why it’s still employed it’s because “it has always been this way”. And because it’s simple and doesn’t require thinking. What it doesn’t take into consideration, is that the system originates from a source (pen & paper RPG) that did have a correction mechanism, which (as many other things from the same source) has been lost on conversion to computer versions.

Serophous.9085:

chemiclord.3978:

Because even if they made it a guaranteed item if you put in [x] number of items for, players would complain that it’s too grindy.

Make it an item easily attainable, and people complain it’s not special when everyone has it.

What’s your suggestion that pleases everyone? Because I (and I’m sure Arena.net) would love to hear it.

this guy gets it

Oh, because obviously, there can never be a middle ground! Items either drop like trash (skulls/nougats/rotten eggs and new runes/sigils), or are an Ultra Rare Drop (ghost mini and black glow jewel), nothing in between. /sarcasm

Like with craftable precursors, tokens for Tequatl weapons, tokens for fractal skins and so on, having a high but guaranteed price with the RNG option would be perfectly fine. Ever heard complaints about dungeon gear for tokens? Ascended rings for relics which also drop as RNG from daily chests? Buyable gemstore items which also drop from BLC chests? Silverwastes items which can be bought with tokens but also drop as RNG? No?

Here’s why: you can play a lottery voluntarily to save money or for the thrill of it only when you can also go and buy it after doing guaranteed X actions. Only then it is “voluntarily”. And by “buy it” I do mean the creation of item (precursor or tonic), and not changing its owner by getting from TP.

Here’s how it could be done here. Recipe 1, RNG:

• 10 t2-t5 snowflakes for a chance of tonic.

Recipe 2, guaranteed (can be adjusted to the desired average cost, since any activity has a gold equivalent of time spent):

• 10 Jumping Snowflakes (1 is a guaranteed drop from Winter Wonderland JP)
• 10 Dinging Snowflakes (1 is a guaranteed chest reward for a round of Bell Choir)
• 10 Toypocalyptic Snowflakes (1 is a guaranteed chest reward for a round of Toypocalypse)
• 100 some expensive-tier snowflakes

Want it cheaper? Try RNG and risk. Want it guaranteed? Go and earn it. And both worlds are happy!

Wanze.8410:

Lothirieth.3408:

Gaile Gray.6029:

• As with everything, this is a voluntary activity. Nothing requires a player to do this. No one “needs” one of these tonics to play. But if they want one, they now have a means to get it.

You know what? No one “needs” to play this game. People do so for fun. And they just might want one of the tonics for fun. But crazy RNG really isn’t fun for the majority of people.

I do know of one entity that needs something though. ANet needs customers. But hey, go ahead and tell them how they don’t need anything in the game, because that will help.

I do realise this is a bit of a pointed and strong post, but I really found your response and reasoning to be pretty unhelpful and ignoring the ever-present problems with RNG and awards in this game. :/

Nothing is about need considering we don’t even need to play this game. It’s all about fun.

Currently, you can get a stack of consumables from 6/7 wintersday transformations on the tp for less than 20 silver. If you plan on having fun with the transformation all year round, just buy a stack. It takes as much space as the permanent one and seems to be way less hassle to obtain. So there really isnt a functional need to get the 5 single endless toy tonics, just get a permanent toymaker tonic and a stack of gift dolyak and you got 6/7 transformations covered for a year or beyond with only 2 inventory slots.
As great as some people might find the chritmas box tonic from the collection achievement, I can hardly see anybody getting more than a couple of hours of fun out of it over the year. If its too much hassle to you to complete this achievement to have 5 hours of fun next year, you shouldnt do it. As you said, you seem to have better things to do in game than “grind” wintersday for the tonic, so I am confident that you will also find something else to occupy yourself with in the game next year for an additional 5 hours.

Aaaand “whoooooosh” goes the point over your head.

They rely on RNG because they cannot develop difficult PvE content whatsoever. They. Simply. Can’t. This game isn’t really for all people, it is for casuals or kids in that matter. If you see other posts this is the only major thing I’m frustrated about Guild Wars 2 since launch, and as the problem lies deep within game core it’s likely we’ll never see a real fix; only badly-worded band-aids.

Palador.2170:

We can ignore those people and have fun. Honestly, I figured that out as a kid when it came to toys.

But what about those people that get their fun from having rare items? Shouldn’t they be allowed to have fun then?

chemiclord.3978:

Essence Snow.3194:

Liadri was reward behind challenge….novel concept.

And how many people were pitching a fit because it was “too hard?” I remember several threads complaining about it.

And I remember a german youtuber, which honestly isn’t that good at the game, beating Liadri with her lvl 70 necro.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Please understand: I do hear the concerns about RNG. I do not profess to be a master of the subject of game economies but sure, I understand the concerns. I just want to point out that this thread isn’t about RNG and the items in questions are available in the TP, so I think we’re covered. (Meaning, let’s keep the RNG discussion in the appropriate thread, please. )

I just want to say that as a long-time gamer, I totally understand and embrace the concept of rarity as an important factor in games and their economies. Maybe come would dispute it, but as far as I understand it, RNG is part of the system that ensures that items hold value. Until I’m convinced there’s a viable alternative (and yes, in the other threads, which I will read!) I can’t view RNG as the demonic system that it’s claimed to be… even while I’ve spent far, far too many hours trying to score the rare items myself!

If you take on board that rare items should be rare, and if you want your own rare items to hold value, then… Ah, but as I said, this thread isn’t about RNG. I’m happy we were able to share the recipe and I wish everyone the best of luck in scoring the nice Wintersday items, whether they choose to seek them or buy them on the TP.

But, at some point, you have to reward the character with something other than things that let you build other things – and grind for more mats. Forget economy for a second, and realize that, in the lore, the character is getting shafted with each “reward” for doing what, in the game world, amounts to saving Tyria. “You just saved the Summit attendees, here’s some goop and talons. Oh, and a yellow weapon you won’t use.” The character kills Zhaitan, and gets crap. Frankly, in an RPG setting, this is insulting.

You’re correct in that this particular thread is discussing something that isn’t necessary. In fact, playing GW2 isn’t, technically, necessary. Rewarding players with something substantial without the need for RNG and grind won’t affect the economy. It will appease many player complaints, however.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Serophous.9085:

chemiclord.3978:

Because even if they made it a guaranteed item if you put in [x] number of items for, players would complain that it’s too grindy.

Make it an item easily attainable, and people complain it’s not special when everyone has it.

What’s your suggestion that pleases everyone? Because I (and I’m sure Arena.net) would love to hear it.

this guy gets it

Oh, because obviously, there can never be a middle ground! Items either drop like trash (skulls/nougats/rotten eggs and new runes/sigils), or are an Ultra Rare Drop (ghost mini and black glow jewel), nothing in between. /sarcasm

Like with craftable precursors, tokens for Tequatl weapons, tokens for fractal skins and so on, having a high but guaranteed price with the RNG option would be perfectly fine. Ever heard complaints about dungeon gear for tokens? Ascended rings for relics which also drop as RNG from daily chests? Buyable gemstore items which also drop from BLC chests? Silverwastes items which can be bought with tokens but also drop as RNG? No?

Here’s why: you can play a lottery voluntarily to save money or for the thrill of it only when you can also go and buy it after doing guaranteed X actions. Only then it is “voluntarily”. And by “buy it” I do mean the creation of item (precursor or tonic), and not changing its owner by getting from TP.

Here’s how it could be done here. Recipe 1, RNG:

• 10 t2-t5 snowflakes for a chance of tonic.

Recipe 2, guaranteed (can be adjusted to the desired average cost, since any activity has a gold equivalent of time spent):

• 10 Jumping Snowflakes (1 is a guaranteed drop from Winter Wonderland JP)
• 10 Dinging Snowflakes (1 is a guaranteed chest reward for a round of Bell Choir)
• 10 Toypocalyptic Snowflakes (1 is a guaranteed chest reward for a round of Toypocalypse)
• 100 some expensive-tier snowflakes

Want it cheaper? Try RNG and risk. Want it guaranteed? Go and earn it. And both worlds are happy!

Afaik, the pvp reward track offers you a choice of one tonic upon completion and is repeatable, NO RNG involved.

lordkrall.7241:

Palador.2170:

We can ignore those people and have fun. Honestly, I figured that out as a kid when it came to toys.

But what about those people that get their fun from having rare items? Shouldn’t they be allowed to have fun then?

Those people derive fun from denying it to others. Now, in the real world, your freedom stops when it starts infringing on mine. I don’t see a reason why it should be different in the game.

Astralporing.1957:

lordkrall.7241:

Palador.2170:

We can ignore those people and have fun. Honestly, I figured that out as a kid when it came to toys.

But what about those people that get their fun from having rare items? Shouldn’t they be allowed to have fun then?

Those people derive fun from denying it to others. Now, in the real world, your freedom stops when it starts infringing on mine. I don’t see a reason why it should be different in the game.

Brb, going to let people who run/win lotteries irl know they’re infringing on mah freedoms and should send me cash as compensation.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Santa “RNG” Claus will make many people angry this christmas.

He is a very evil entity in GW2.

Krampus as we’ve all been naughty this year.

I’ve been hammering on this MF recipe like crazy and still haven’t gotten any hits yet.

Serophous.9085:

chemiclord.3978:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Gaile Gray.6029:

while it usually will produce a gift box, may produce one of those valuable tonics, instead!

I wonder which part of this 15 page thread about RNG and this 13 page thread about Halloween mini, or the multiple threads about Black Lion Chests, Mystic Forge and Tequatl weapons made the designers think that players love RNG.

Because even if they made it a guaranteed item if you put in [x] number of items for, players would complain that it’s too grindy.

Make it an item easily attainable, and people complain it’s not special when everyone has it.

What’s your suggestion that pleases everyone? Because I (and I’m sure Arena.net) would love to hear it.

this guy gets it

The balance is hard to get now is that it should be grindy/hard/require lots of resources during the event and then there should be an easy means to get after the event/next season.

This is a much broader topic and doesn’t belong in this thread though as it could be stretched to precursor and original Halloween skins for instance.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Gaile just announced this as being a “good thing”.

Yes, I believe it is a good thing. Here’s why:

• The items needed to make the recipe from prior years no longer are fully available. This means that that players could have been locked out of highly-sought-after items (unless someone happened to retain items from previous years).
• With the new recipe, those who choose to do so may try for the popular tonics and other rewards. As you can see in this thread, both tonics are confirmed as available and forge-able.
• As with everything, this is a voluntary activity. Nothing requires a player to do this. No one “needs” one of these tonics to play. But if they want one, they now have a means to get it.

In the end, this recipe is voluntary. The item is desirable but not essential. Players may decide for themselves if going for a particular item is right for them. In the end, I believe that it really is that simple.

Word of advice, take a post-it note out, write on the top, “Words to never use while posting”, underline it, and then write “Voluntary” underneath it. And then attach the post-it on the bottom of your monitor or in eye-view of your machine. It’s like talking about religion or politics on the internet. It’ll never end up with anything accomplished in a positive manner.

Have a great day!

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I’ve been hammering on this MF recipe like crazy and still haven’t gotten any hits yet.

Considering that one forge attempt costs about 6o silver atm, if you buy the flakes on buy order and the gift dolyak tonic goes for 130/200g on the tp, i wouldnt be surprised to get no tonic for the the first 200-300 attempts.

I found Endless Toy Soldier Tonic & Magnanimous Choir Bell in my first 200 tries. =)

Yoroiookami.3485:

I found Endless Toy Soldier Tonic & Magnanimous Choir Bell in my first 200 tries. =)

Is the Magnanimous Choir Bell an intended drop for this recipe or did it drop from a Giant Wintersday Gift? I doubt that players going after the tonics want to hear that the rng chance for the tonics is diluted by an item that is offered by an NPC trader.

off-topic:

Preserving value through rng-rarity only benefits the player looking to sell the item not use it.

I am ReinPurr. My lucky hat and I shall triumph!

Psientist.6437:

Yoroiookami.3485:

I found Endless Toy Soldier Tonic & Magnanimous Choir Bell in my first 200 tries. =)

Is the Magnanimous Choir Bell an intended drop for this recipe or did it drop from a Giant Wintersday Gift? I doubt that players going after the tonics want to hear that the rng chance for the tonics is diluted by an item that is offered by an NPC trader.

off-topic:

Preserving value through rng-rarity only benefits the player looking to sell the item not use it.

I got it from a Giant Wintersday Gift.

BooDuh.2841:

I am ReinPurr. My lucky hat and I shall triumph!

He doesn’t look too happy. XD

Gaile Gray.6029:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Gaile just announced this as being a “good thing”.

Yes, I believe it is a good thing. Here’s why:

• The items needed to make the recipe from prior years no longer are fully available. This means that that players could have been locked out of highly-sought-after items (unless someone happened to retain items from previous years).
• With the new recipe, those who choose to do so may try for the popular tonics and other rewards. As you can see in this thread, both tonics are confirmed as available and forge-able.
• As with everything, this is a voluntary activity. Nothing requires a player to do this. No one “needs” one of these tonics to play. But if they want one, they now have a means to get it.

In the end, this recipe is voluntary. The item is desirable but not essential. Players may decide for themselves if going for a particular item is right for them. In the end, I believe that it really is that simple.

If you think really remote RNG is a good thing, then you are out of touch. If I want a poor RNG game, I will go blow my money on the junk coming out of Korea.

Seriously – you folks are really piling up the bad decisions.

Guhracie.3419:

C’mon, guys. Ms. Gray is just relaying the information she’s given in the most positive light she can. That’s her job. Let’s not be nasty to her.

Why not? She can relay the response to the folks that feed her the lines to give us.

Is there any intent to have this recipe still work?
Checking the wiki for any snowflake shows it’s still viable.
However it gives a “Giant” winterday gift which has been discontinued.
Is it simply the word “Giant” that is now causing a bug,
or has the wiki just not been updated?

Is there a recipe to let us skip the stupid JP for the shoulders?

That would be a good thing!

Or a recipe for the alcohol and candy canes. Cause 10k drinks and 2.5k canes is a lot.

That would be a good thing!

Or you could post another thread about it, even though there’s plenty already.
I agree with you. But let’s not bury each individual issue under a ton of problems so maybe they will actually notice and respond to those individual issues “simply requesting a clarification” and not a ton of work for them.