Guild Wars 2

Fixing forum bug.

tramwajarz.2369:

When I create a party and make requirements for it, it is my right to moderate my own party. Those people who joined me agreed to be my guests.

You are mistaken. You have no such right.

Anet owns the game and they do not grant you that right. In fact they have specifically chosen to deny the existence of that supposed right.

Where do people agree to be your guests? Is there a form they sign?

Seera.5916:

At this point, anything that forces the two groups of players to play together will be doomed to fail.

They’ll either argue in chat over what method to use or what skills or traits to use. The experienced fast and smooth run players complain about how the players are slowing them down. The play how I want players will complain about how the players are trying to force them to play another way.

Eventually most everyone is aware of the external LFG site again and dungeon LFG’s move out of the game. Because they’d rather wait than get paired with players who do not share their philosophy.

Except for new players and true casuals. Because there may be times when players want to run with people who have done the dungeon at least one time and not be completely new to the dungeon. Or want to have silly requirements to just have fun on the run.

TBH, you’re probably right, in a lot of cases.

Which is why I think the only answer is to make the game more far more intuitive and well balanced and far less formulaic.

Classes should, obviously, be equally viable.

There will always be differences, of course, but no one should ever have reason to say, to an entire group, as the OP did; “All swap to heavy armour.”.

As it is a) totally wrong that heavy armour classes should have that type of advantage, anyway (especially in a, supposedly, trinity-free game), b) not everyone will even have a heavy armour class to swap to and c) people, invariably, have a lot more fun if they can play on their favourite class.

Weapon types should obviously be equal, too.

No one should be forced to melee, due to a DPS advantage.

If necessary, give non-heavy armour melee roles a little more passive defence/heals, in PVE and/or chuck a bit more boss damage at ranged, if it’s found to be genuinely unfair.

Get rid of stacking for buffs ASAP (make them group-wide), get rid of/change anything else that makes perma-stacking and meleeing better (downed state?).

Make perma-stacking worse than the alternative.

Throw a ton of random aoe into areas where groups typically try to perma-stack.

Make them move, at least a bit.

Stop mobs in dungeons resetting.

If you pull it (which you will), you all have to fight it.

Pay people a little more gold per dungeon, if necessary, to make up for extra time taken.

Get rid of all red herrings – make each traitline (and the future specs) equally viable.

Make trait choices only choices between equally effective and similar things.

So, the choice in each equivalent spot, of each DPS traitline, should affect either DPS, or passive heals, or defence, or whatever (not a potentially random mixture of all 3, where some of those “choices” may be virtually useless).

Work out a similar thing for utilities.

Then it will be far less a case of older players feeling obliged to lecture and mould new players (whether they want to have to do so, or not), or simply avoid them altogether and far less a case of newer players feeling forced to follow very boring set rules and methods (rather than just having fun), or simply avoid dungeons altogether.

Then it will be far more a case of everyone just playing their chosen role to the best of their ability and perhaps just giving/asking for the odd pointer, here and there, if absolutely necessary.

I know some people won’t like this idea, as they have got used to the status quo, but the truth is that the current system is unsustainable.

Not least, because the very future of a game like this relies on most older players at least not minding playing with newer players and vice versa.

When you get to the point (as this game has) where the two groups seem to be largely intent on remaining virtually segregated, if at all possible and the only (unintended) interaction they have is fraught with issues (and group kicks), you have a major problem.

Would be nice if they created a split system — Where there are parties like we see now and then there are parties with a designated party leader, in which all members that join the latter party are given a warning that they have no voting rights within that group.

Perhaps that would solve many of these issues?

They could make it so that person who creates lfg cannot be kicked. Solves basically all usual problems

Nyx.7342:

They could make it so that person who creates lfg cannot be kicked. Solves basically all usual problems

Until a troll starts a party and waits until midway through to start causing problems. Knowing the group will have to decide between wasting the time they’ve spent or put up with him as he’s immune to being kicked.

Seera.5916:

Nyx.7342:

They could make it so that person who creates lfg cannot be kicked. Solves basically all usual problems

Until a troll starts a party and waits until midway through to start causing problems. Knowing the group will have to decide between wasting the time they’ve spent or put up with him as he’s immune to being kicked.

S’why I made the suggestion that a warning be given in the LFG system to all those thinking of joining that they’re joining a party with a clearly designated leader OR they’re joining a party with none. So they know what they’re getting into beforehand?

it should be impossible to kick the creator of the party, if the party creator started a party it belongs to THEM, any1 else there is a helping hand, dont like it? start ur own party

i personally have given up on dungeons/ fractals after the “update” that removed instance ending for party owner leaving (not that i think thats the only solution, the instance should continue if the party owner LEAVES OF HIS OWN FREE WILL)

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Short of simply removing the ability to kick people all together, there isn’t really an abuse-free method available.

removing the ability to kick would allow plenty of opportunities to be a jerk without risk. I wouldn’t call that abuse-free.

i stopped reading at “3k ap”

Khisanth.2948:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Short of simply removing the ability to kick people all together, there isn’t really an abuse-free method available.

removing the ability to kick would allow plenty of opportunities to be a jerk without risk. I wouldn’t call that abuse-free.

the instance owner has every right to be a “jerk” its the instance they started, you are free to leave, every mmo with parties has worked that way and its always fine, nobody complains, i dont remember asking for a democratic party system, i dont remember reading it on the back of the gw2 box and saying “boy iv always wanted that in my mmo” i dont, i dont trust the common rabble and my suspicions have been confirmed time and time again

Vix.6730:

sMihaly.1492:

what if… ppl with insufficient AP would’nt be able to see AP restricted LFGs

I love this idea. Create AP levels, if your account doesn’t have it too bad you can work your way up like the rest of us.

Useless. AP means NOTHING as an indicator of skill. Does having a low AP count on my alt account mean I “dont know” how to run dungeons or fractals? No, it just means I dont feel the need to AP-kitten my alt account to catch up with my 1+ year old account. Same thing for other players with single accounts. They could have low AP, and know how to solo dungeons that some 20k+ AP person dies at every turn in.

Achievements are a bunch of mindless kitten anyone can do that dont promote actual skill in the game.

Ashen.2907:

tramwajarz.2369:

When I create a party and make requirements for it, it is my right to moderate my own party. Those people who joined me agreed to be my guests.

You are mistaken. You have no such right.

Anet owns the game and they do not grant you that right. In fact they have specifically chosen to deny the existence of that supposed right.

Where do people agree to be your guests? Is there a form they sign?

your wrong he does have that right, it is an intrinsic agreement of entering the party, its very simple to understand that you are entering someone Else’s party, dont over analyze it

Aidan Savage.2078:

Vix.6730:

sMihaly.1492:

what if… ppl with insufficient AP would’nt be able to see AP restricted LFGs

I love this idea. Create AP levels, if your account doesn’t have it too bad you can work your way up like the rest of us.

Useless. AP means NOTHING as an indicator of skill. Does having a low AP count on my alt account mean I “dont know” how to run dungeons or fractals? No, it just means I dont feel the need to AP-kitten my alt account to catch up with my 1+ year old account. Same thing for other players with single accounts. They could have low AP, and know how to solo dungeons that some 20k+ AP person dies at every turn in.

Achievements are a bunch of mindless kitten anyone can do that dont promote actual skill in the game.

Think of it this way, would you want to join a group that thinks AP is a measure of skill anyway? The filter does the skilled players who have lower AP a favor. Removes the clutter from their LFG.

gaspara.4079:

This system has been discussed a lot. I have on at least one occasion suggested that an afk feature be added, that if a player fails to deal any damage(to prevent slight movement or chat botting from preventing the flag) for some period of time (say 15 minutes so that it is long enough not to just be planning how to tackle a boss but short enough that people aren’t waiting forever for an afk) they get a flag that lets them be kicked with 2 votes, if not flagged it takes all 4 other members of the group voting to kick.

Since there are no dedicated healers in this game the only type of person that should be kicked that would get out of it was two people working together to actively troll which while annoying would be a much smaller issue than the system currently has.

That system probably wouldn’t have helped the OP since they would have been the ones standing around waiting for the other people to catch up.

Perhaps instead of doing the dungeon itself, you could get free runs like me!

^ this right here

ahh youth..youth and kittenbag ism. Anything dealing with LFG brings that crowd which isn’t new to any mmorpg. Except in FFXIV ARR. I haven’t encounter too many kittenbags in that game besides tank rushers.

New party mechanic is perfectly fine.

Might want to try being in a party of 3 so this doesnt happen.

Duke Nukem.6783:

i dont remember asking for a democratic party system

Oh, the irony.

This could be a fix: upon a kick request, all the other party members should vote for that kick, so, if you have a friend in the party, then you won’t get kicked no matter what as all the other 4 votes need to be against that player

simple, clean, no hassle and no issues arising from this…

BlueBerry.7918:

This could be a fix: upon a kick request, all the other party members should vote for that kick, so, if you have a friend in the party, then you won’t get kicked no matter what as all the other 4 votes need to be against that player

simple, clean, no hassle and no issues arising from this…

except that it does still cause problems.

That’s why it was changed to a simple majority in the first place.

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

tramwajarz.2369:

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

That field says “description” not “requirements”. The problem is that you are using it wrong.

mtpelion.4562:

tramwajarz.2369:

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

That field says “description” not “requirements”. The problem is that you are using it wrong.

It is a description where I can write my requirements. No player is entitled to party with me if I don’t want to as well as I am not entitled to go into someone’s party if I’m not up to their requirements.

Duke Nukem.6783:

it should be impossible to kick the creator of the party, if the party creator started a party it belongs to THEM, any1 else there is a helping hand, dont like it? start ur own party

i personally have given up on dungeons/ fractals after the “update” that removed instance ending for party owner leaving (not that i think thats the only solution, the instance should continue if the party owner LEAVES OF HIS OWN FREE WILL)

Then party leaders could behave like total psychos, if they wanted, safe in the knowledge that they couldn’t be kicked.

You may say that not many people are like that, so it wouldn’t be much of a risk…

However, if you think of the type of people who, typically, set themselves up as leaders (both IRL and in things like games), the likelihood that they are overly self confident, arrogant, selfish types is far higher than it would be in a random cross section of people, who don’t set themselves up as leaders.

Duke Nukem.6783:

Khisanth.2948:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Short of simply removing the ability to kick people all together, there isn’t really an abuse-free method available.

removing the ability to kick would allow plenty of opportunities to be a jerk without risk. I wouldn’t call that abuse-free.

the instance owner has every right to be a “jerk” its the instance they started, you are free to leave, every mmo with parties has worked that way and its always fine, nobody complains, i dont remember asking for a democratic party system, i dont remember reading it on the back of the gw2 box and saying “boy iv always wanted that in my mmo” i dont, i dont trust the common rabble and my suspicions have been confirmed time and time again

No “every MMO” does not work that way.

The biggest MMO (in the West, anyway) doesn’t, for a start.

Yes, it works like that if you make your own group, privately (either with friends/guildies, or via shouting on Trade chat), but the LFG (LFD/LFR) groups don’t work that way.

…and yes, people complain about horrible group leaders, behaving selfishly (or otherwise badly), in other games; they complain all the time.

As for the rest of it, you are clearly one of the people I’m referring to.

You are the reason group leaders being given more control would be a disaster.

tramwajarz.2369:

mtpelion.4562:

tramwajarz.2369:

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

That field says “description” not “requirements”. The problem is that you are using it wrong.

It is a description where I can write my requirements. No player is entitled to party with me if I don’t want to as well as I am not entitled to go into someone’s party if I’m not up to their requirements.

Actually, every player in the game has the right to join any party that is listed in the LFG. That’s the nature of using the LFG, you actually have literally no say whatsoever in who decides to click join.

mtpelion.4562:

tramwajarz.2369:

mtpelion.4562:

tramwajarz.2369:

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

That field says “description” not “requirements”. The problem is that you are using it wrong.

It is a description where I can write my requirements. No player is entitled to party with me if I don’t want to as well as I am not entitled to go into someone’s party if I’m not up to their requirements.

Actually, every player in the game has the right to join any party that is listed in the LFG. That’s the nature of using the LFG, you actually have literally no say whatsoever in who decides to click join.

That’s why Party Leader system is a must be to eradicate those who have no respect to other prople’s requirements and ignore simple information given in the description.

tramwajarz.2369:

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

Do you even know what socialism is?

I doubt it.

Try at least googling it, before you mention it again, please.

Tigaseye.2047:

tramwajarz.2369:

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

Do you even know what socialism is?

I doubt it.

Try at least googling it, before you mention it again, please.

Google told me socialism is evil and I don’t want it in GW2.

What’s this idea that whoever starts the instance/party somehow is more important, all knowing, gets choice of life and death (okey exaggerating a bit but the underling point stands) ?

Your party members are your companions, your team etc.. they’re not your employees or your personal soldiers. (talking in general not to anybody specific).

When someone Joins your team, you’re not doing them a favor by allowing them to tag along… if anything they’re doing you a favor by helping you out with whatever your doing.

This talk of I should dictate who joins or not, or I should be able to kick people off the team but they cannot do the same to me and stuff is frankly exactly what thank gods of game design Arenanet made sure to avoid.

As for OP I dont know what happened but I have a feeling those 3 additions were not friends… if 3 friends want to do dungeons they’d start their own party most likely and the chances that they all join the same group at the same time is kinda difficult.

As for why they all agreed to kick you off the team is probably because you made them feel like you were going to kick them off the team for not fitting your criteria and they did it preemptively themselves. You probably made them feel insecure when you asked them to change to heavies one of them start the kick, the other two figured it may be unfair but if they dont agree probably it will be them off the team hence they agreed.

Galen Grey.4709:

What’s this idea that whoever starts the instance/party somehow is more important, all knowing, gets choice of life and death (okey exaggerating a bit but the underling point stands) ?

Your party members are your companions, your team etc.. they’re not your employees or your personal soldiers. (talking in general not to anybody specific).

When someone Joins your team, you’re not doing them a favor by allowing them to tag along… if anything they’re doing you a favor by helping you out with whatever your doing.

This talk of I should dictate who joins or not, or I should be able to kick people off the team but they cannot do the same to me and stuff is frankly exactly what thank gods of game design Arenanet made sure to avoid.

As for OP I dont know what happened but I have a feeling those 3 additions were not friends… if 3 friends want to do dungeons they’d start their own party most likely and the chances that they all join the same group at the same time is kinda difficult.

As for why they all agreed to kick you off the team is probably because you made them feel like you were going to kick them off the team for not fitting your criteria and they did it preemptively themselves. You probably made them feel insecure when you asked them to change to heavies one of them start the kick, the other two figured it may be unfair but if they dont agree probably it will be them off the team hence they agreed.

He got kicked from his own half finished instance. he’s the victim, not those 3 stealing instance rats.

This is why current system is terrible. You start an instance, you look for a party on lfg, you get kicked. This is madness, a crime to logic and rational thinking.

Hopefully the upcoming change to dungeons so that they scale to any size party, 1 – 5, will solve all these issues. The OP will not need to call in 3 more members to the party to finish the dungeon. Players who do not have a band of friends or belong to a guild will not need to form a party with possible jerks and trolls.

Edit: That was completely wrong. I misunderstood some comments made in another thread. This sticked thread explains that the Arah storied dungeon will be scaled for 1 – 5 not any explorable dungeons. So it looks like kick mechanics we have now will still be in effect. Too bad.

Galen Grey.4709:

As for why they all agreed to kick you off the team is probably because you made them feel like you were going to kick them off the team for not fitting your criteria and they did it preemptively themselves. You probably made them feel insecure when you asked them to change to heavies one of them start the kick, the other two figured it may be unfair but if they dont agree probably it will be them off the team hence they agreed.

Too many “probably”.

Galen Grey.4709:

As for OP I dont know what happened but I have a feeling those 3 additions were not friends… if 3 friends want to do dungeons they’d start their own party most likely and the chances that they all join the same group at the same time is kinda difficult.

Not if they wanted to mess with people in lfg.

tramwajarz.2369:

Galen Grey.4709:

What’s this idea that whoever starts the instance/party somehow is more important, all knowing, gets choice of life and death (okey exaggerating a bit but the underling point stands) ?

Your party members are your companions, your team etc.. they’re not your employees or your personal soldiers. (talking in general not to anybody specific).

When someone Joins your team, you’re not doing them a favor by allowing them to tag along… if anything they’re doing you a favor by helping you out with whatever your doing.

This talk of I should dictate who joins or not, or I should be able to kick people off the team but they cannot do the same to me and stuff is frankly exactly what thank gods of game design Arenanet made sure to avoid.

As for OP I dont know what happened but I have a feeling those 3 additions were not friends… if 3 friends want to do dungeons they’d start their own party most likely and the chances that they all join the same group at the same time is kinda difficult.

As for why they all agreed to kick you off the team is probably because you made them feel like you were going to kick them off the team for not fitting your criteria and they did it preemptively themselves. You probably made them feel insecure when you asked them to change to heavies one of them start the kick, the other two figured it may be unfair but if they dont agree probably it will be them off the team hence they agreed.

He got kicked from his own half finished instance. he’s the victim, not those 3 stealing instance rats.

This is why current system is terrible. You start an instance, you look for a party on lfg, you get kicked. This is madness, a crime to logic and rational thinking.

The world is not black and white.

Sure he its not fair that he got kicked out of his own instance. 100% agreed.

Would it be fair if he kicked those 3 off for the simple reason they didnt play the classes he approved off? dont think that would be fair either.

Do I believe it was fair for them to kick him out if he was going to kick them off himself? no, they should have at least discussed it first. Thats exactly the thing here. No one should act like they own a party because no one owns a party. A team has to work together and there shouldnt be any demands of any kind.

The system is designed to support exactly that. There is no madness or crime to logic here. The party starting the group was likely perceived as trying to abuse his standing by demanding changes of them and the party protected themselves by kicking him out. I still dont think OP deserved to be kicked out, especially after doing so much work already but I do think he shouldnt have demanded that everyone should bring a heavy.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Galen Grey.4709:

As for why they all agreed to kick you off the team is probably because you made them feel like you were going to kick them off the team for not fitting your criteria and they did it preemptively themselves. You probably made them feel insecure when you asked them to change to heavies one of them start the kick, the other two figured it may be unfair but if they dont agree probably it will be them off the team hence they agreed.

Too many “probably”.

Galen Grey.4709:

As for OP I dont know what happened but I have a feeling those 3 additions were not friends… if 3 friends want to do dungeons they’d start their own party most likely and the chances that they all join the same group at the same time is kinda difficult.

Not if they wanted to mess with people in lfg.

I am not clairvoyant so sorry I can only tell you what I feel is what most likely happened not what actually happened.

If they wanted to mess with people in lfg, why kick just OP and not his friend? and why even attempt the fight at all?

Galen Grey.4709:

tramwajarz.2369:

Galen Grey.4709:

What’s this idea that whoever starts the instance/party somehow is more important, all knowing, gets choice of life and death (okey exaggerating a bit but the underling point stands) ?

Your party members are your companions, your team etc.. they’re not your employees or your personal soldiers. (talking in general not to anybody specific).

When someone Joins your team, you’re not doing them a favor by allowing them to tag along… if anything they’re doing you a favor by helping you out with whatever your doing.

This talk of I should dictate who joins or not, or I should be able to kick people off the team but they cannot do the same to me and stuff is frankly exactly what thank gods of game design Arenanet made sure to avoid.

As for OP I dont know what happened but I have a feeling those 3 additions were not friends… if 3 friends want to do dungeons they’d start their own party most likely and the chances that they all join the same group at the same time is kinda difficult.

As for why they all agreed to kick you off the team is probably because you made them feel like you were going to kick them off the team for not fitting your criteria and they did it preemptively themselves. You probably made them feel insecure when you asked them to change to heavies one of them start the kick, the other two figured it may be unfair but if they dont agree probably it will be them off the team hence they agreed.

He got kicked from his own half finished instance. he’s the victim, not those 3 stealing instance rats.

This is why current system is terrible. You start an instance, you look for a party on lfg, you get kicked. This is madness, a crime to logic and rational thinking.

The world is not black and white.

Sure he its not fair that he got kicked out of his own instance. 100% agreed.

Would it be fair if he kicked those 3 off for the simple reason they didnt play the classes he approved off? dont think that would be fair either.

Do I believe it was fair for them to kick him out if he was going to kick them off himself? no, they should have at least discussed it first. Thats exactly the thing here. No one should act like they own a party because no one owns a party. A team has to work together and there shouldnt be any demands of any kind.

The system is designed to support exactly that. There is no madness or crime to logic here. The party starting the group was likely perceived as trying to abuse his standing by demanding changes of them and the party protected themselves by kicking him out. I still dont think OP deserved to be kicked out, especially after doing so much work already but I do think he shouldnt have demanded that everyone should bring a heavy.

Actually he did half the path on his own. If those 3 didnt want to at least try to appeal to his request, he should be able to deal with them OR AT LEAST BE IMMUNE TO THEIR KICK FROM HIS OWN INSTANCE.

tramwajarz.2369:

Galen Grey.4709:

tramwajarz.2369:

Galen Grey.4709:

What’s this idea that whoever starts the instance/party somehow is more important, all knowing, gets choice of life and death (okey exaggerating a bit but the underling point stands) ?

Your party members are your companions, your team etc.. they’re not your employees or your personal soldiers. (talking in general not to anybody specific).

When someone Joins your team, you’re not doing them a favor by allowing them to tag along… if anything they’re doing you a favor by helping you out with whatever your doing.

This talk of I should dictate who joins or not, or I should be able to kick people off the team but they cannot do the same to me and stuff is frankly exactly what thank gods of game design Arenanet made sure to avoid.

As for OP I dont know what happened but I have a feeling those 3 additions were not friends… if 3 friends want to do dungeons they’d start their own party most likely and the chances that they all join the same group at the same time is kinda difficult.

As for why they all agreed to kick you off the team is probably because you made them feel like you were going to kick them off the team for not fitting your criteria and they did it preemptively themselves. You probably made them feel insecure when you asked them to change to heavies one of them start the kick, the other two figured it may be unfair but if they dont agree probably it will be them off the team hence they agreed.

He got kicked from his own half finished instance. he’s the victim, not those 3 stealing instance rats.

This is why current system is terrible. You start an instance, you look for a party on lfg, you get kicked. This is madness, a crime to logic and rational thinking.

The world is not black and white.

Sure he its not fair that he got kicked out of his own instance. 100% agreed.

Would it be fair if he kicked those 3 off for the simple reason they didnt play the classes he approved off? dont think that would be fair either.

Do I believe it was fair for them to kick him out if he was going to kick them off himself? no, they should have at least discussed it first. Thats exactly the thing here. No one should act like they own a party because no one owns a party. A team has to work together and there shouldnt be any demands of any kind.

The system is designed to support exactly that. There is no madness or crime to logic here. The party starting the group was likely perceived as trying to abuse his standing by demanding changes of them and the party protected themselves by kicking him out. I still dont think OP deserved to be kicked out, especially after doing so much work already but I do think he shouldnt have demanded that everyone should bring a heavy.

Actually he did half the path on his own. If those 3 didnt want to at least try to appeal to his request, he should be able to deal with them OR AT LEAST BE IMMUNE TO THEIR KICK FROM HIS OWN INSTANCE.

Why? strictly speaking he needed “them” more then they needed him. its “them” cause naturally it could have been any other 3 people.

Its like your car breaks down and you need a lift to somewhere but when someone offers to take you, you tell them to get a different type of car. (not a perfect analogy since naturally those 3 benefited from helping him more then someone giving you a lift would benefit) but still they’re helping him out and without help he is likely stuck. Why should he be entitled to any special treatment? (demanding stuff / Untouchable)

Gw2 is a game designed to be as inclusive as possible, people just shouldnt force other players to focus on 2 professions and ignore the other 6 or they just cant join the fans. That is just wrong. Now most of the times they get their way. Sometimes they dont. This was one case where they didnt.

Now maybe its not the case, maybe OP never intended to kick anyone even if they refused to change and if thats the case then this is really sad, but if he did intend to kick anyone refusing to comply then this is more like poetic justice.

Galen Grey.4709:

tramwajarz.2369:

Galen Grey.4709:

tramwajarz.2369:

Galen Grey.4709:

What’s this idea that whoever starts the instance/party somehow is more important, all knowing, gets choice of life and death (okey exaggerating a bit but the underling point stands) ?

Your party members are your companions, your team etc.. they’re not your employees or your personal soldiers. (talking in general not to anybody specific).

When someone Joins your team, you’re not doing them a favor by allowing them to tag along… if anything they’re doing you a favor by helping you out with whatever your doing.

This talk of I should dictate who joins or not, or I should be able to kick people off the team but they cannot do the same to me and stuff is frankly exactly what thank gods of game design Arenanet made sure to avoid.

As for OP I dont know what happened but I have a feeling those 3 additions were not friends… if 3 friends want to do dungeons they’d start their own party most likely and the chances that they all join the same group at the same time is kinda difficult.

As for why they all agreed to kick you off the team is probably because you made them feel like you were going to kick them off the team for not fitting your criteria and they did it preemptively themselves. You probably made them feel insecure when you asked them to change to heavies one of them start the kick, the other two figured it may be unfair but if they dont agree probably it will be them off the team hence they agreed.

He got kicked from his own half finished instance. he’s the victim, not those 3 stealing instance rats.

This is why current system is terrible. You start an instance, you look for a party on lfg, you get kicked. This is madness, a crime to logic and rational thinking.

The world is not black and white.

Sure he its not fair that he got kicked out of his own instance. 100% agreed.

Would it be fair if he kicked those 3 off for the simple reason they didnt play the classes he approved off? dont think that would be fair either.

Do I believe it was fair for them to kick him out if he was going to kick them off himself? no, they should have at least discussed it first. Thats exactly the thing here. No one should act like they own a party because no one owns a party. A team has to work together and there shouldnt be any demands of any kind.

The system is designed to support exactly that. There is no madness or crime to logic here. The party starting the group was likely perceived as trying to abuse his standing by demanding changes of them and the party protected themselves by kicking him out. I still dont think OP deserved to be kicked out, especially after doing so much work already but I do think he shouldnt have demanded that everyone should bring a heavy.

Actually he did half the path on his own. If those 3 didnt want to at least try to appeal to his request, he should be able to deal with them OR AT LEAST BE IMMUNE TO THEIR KICK FROM HIS OWN INSTANCE.

Why? strictly speaking he needed “them” more then they needed him. its “them” cause naturally it could have been any other 3 people.

Its like your car breaks down and you need a lift to somewhere but when someone offers to take you, you tell them to get a different type of car. (not a perfect analogy since naturally those 3 benefited from helping him more then someone giving you a lift would benefit) but still they’re helping him out and without help he is likely stuck. Why should he be entitled to any special treatment? (demanding stuff / Untouchable)

Gw2 is a game designed to be as inclusive as possible, people just shouldnt force other players to focus on 2 professions and ignore the other 6 or they just cant join the fans. That is just wrong. Now most of the times they get their way. Sometimes they dont. This was one case where they didnt.

Now maybe its not the case, maybe OP never intended to kick anyone even if they refused to change and if thats the case then this is really sad, but if he did intend to kick anyone refusing to comply then this is more like poetic justice.

So the game designed for inclusive doesnt allow me to control MY party, however 3 random rats can come and steal MY instance and MY progress? Wow, that’s kitten good argument against democracy.

Galen Grey.4709:

Its like your car breaks down and you need a lift to somewhere but when someone offers to take you, you tell them to get a different type of car. (not a perfect analogy since naturally those 3 benefited from helping him more then someone giving you a lift would benefit) but still they’re helping him out and without help he is likely stuck. Why should he be entitled to any special treatment? (demanding stuff / Untouchable)

He would still be able to choose if he wanted to go in that car or not with that person (unlike LFG system) and it would be perfectly fine and normal if the driver went on his way leaving him behind. Picking him up, driving him all the way back to where he started, then leaving him there is not alright.

Tigaseye.2047:

tramwajarz.2369:

Tigaseye.2047:

tramwajarz.2369:

After reading all the posts filled with no respect to anyone, people entitled to have a spot in parties even though they don’t match requirements, people that demand to cater to new/bad players like it’s a job I get the feeling nothing is going to change. The mentality of so many people is broken to the level of socialism.

Do you even know what socialism is?

I doubt it.

Try at least googling it, before you mention it again, please.

Google told me socialism is evil and I don’t want it in GW2.

Clearly trolling.

BTW, listening to Fox News and your relatives isn’t “googling”.

Try finding an unbiased definition.

For those curious, socialism is a social and economic system characterized by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy, as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.

Also, assuming someone who whimsically says socialism is evil must be a Fox News viewer and/or only follows what their parents/relatives tell them is extremely close-minded and only exposes your own biases.

tramwajarz.2369:

Oxidia.8103:

I guess everybody is so fast to forget so many times in the past when party leader rage quit and everybody was kicked from the instance. Also the fact instance owners had tendency to be gluteuses just because they couldn’t be kicked.

On the other hand situation like presented in the OP most likely wouldnt happen because kids that joined OP didnt want to loose half finished instance.

That is just playing musical chairs with the various problems.

Khisanth.2948:

tramwajarz.2369:

Oxidia.8103:

I guess everybody is so fast to forget so many times in the past when party leader rage quit and everybody was kicked from the instance. Also the fact instance owners had tendency to be gluteuses just because they couldn’t be kicked.

On the other hand situation like presented in the OP most likely wouldnt happen because kids that joined OP didnt want to loose half finished instance.

That is just playing musical chairs with the various problems.

No it isnt

I can’t believe there are a bunch of replies here saying that OP was wrong, and or that they had what was coming to them.

No one has the right to come in and steal your progress in any instance, or any manner. Dungeons included.

No one is obligated to carry any tier of bad player through anything. There are many good to mediocre players who just don’t have the time or will to teach others, and they shouldn’t be forced to.

Party leaders having ultimate say would mean you could just not join their party if they have the priority leader function enabled.

@Galen Grey
You missed the whole point of him asking them to bring heavies. They were evidently new and would extend his 2 am dungeon trip even longer so he suggested they bring heavies as it would make the path doable. Why does he have to help 3 newer players in the middle of the night? Also he doesn’t have to start the dungeon earlier, he can play when he wants.

Evidently his duo didn’t go as planned, and he wanted 3 others to help them finish it so they could resume whatever practice another day. Instead, thanks to the party system, 3 players came in, stole his instance then squandered it by leaving anyway which is even more infuriating.

Just because LFG is there, it doesn’t mean you have to accept playing with anyone. When did this become a thing? If a matchmaking service set you up with random people you’d have to date every single one? No, you can pick and choose, LFG is like said above a platform to ALLOW co-operation, not an obligation to co-operate.

Yes Elitists who are wholly too extreme exist, but the opposite does also,which are ‘dowhatIlike’ players who not only refuse to fulfill set requirements but also choose to be carried by those Elitists. They are both as rotten as each other, the rest of us shouldn’t have to suffer for their BS.

Pickles.9436:

i stopped reading at “3k ap”

I wish they did too, and kept on going past my post, instead of joining.

3k ap is not an obnoxious request. Unless you had your account lost/stolen/banned and had to restart, I feel like majority of people don’t know how to play their class well until they’re past 3k AP. This was an LFG for Arah not AC I didn’t ask to show gear, I just wanted someone who knew how to dodge grubs and not die from one kick on Lupi, and you think that was too much to ask for.

PistolWhip.2697:

I can’t believe there are a bunch of replies here saying that OP was wrong, and or that they had what was coming to them.

What I can’t believe is why the OP, someone who clearly was not prepared to accept random people into the party, posted to the LFG in the first place. If you’re not willing to play with random people, why invite random people? Don’t like it? THEN DON’T PUG

PistolWhip.2697:

Just because LFG is there, it doesn’t mean you have to accept playing with anyone. When did this become a thing?

It became a thing when LFG was invented? You have to accept them if you’re inviting them. That’s how inviting works. Don’t want to accept them? Then don’t invite them. This is really, really simple. If you’re not willing to play with them, then leave the party.

PistolWhip.2697:

I can’t believe there are a bunch of replies here saying that OP was wrong, and or that they had what was coming to them.

No one has the right to come in and steal your progress in any instance, or any manner. Dungeons included.

No one is obligated to carry any tier of bad player through anything. There are many good to mediocre players who just don’t have the time or will to teach others, and they shouldn’t be forced to.

Party leaders having ultimate say would mean you could just not join their party if they have the priority leader function enabled.

@Galen Grey
You missed the whole point of him asking them to bring heavies. They were evidently new and would extend his 2 am dungeon trip even longer so he suggested they bring heavies as it would make the path doable. Why does he have to help 3 newer players in the middle of the night? Also he doesn’t have to start the dungeon earlier, he can play when he wants.

Evidently his duo didn’t go as planned, and he wanted 3 others to help them finish it so they could resume whatever practice another day. Instead, thanks to the party system, 3 players came in, stole his instance then squandered it by leaving anyway which is even more infuriating.

Just because LFG is there, it doesn’t mean you have to accept playing with anyone. When did this become a thing? If a matchmaking service set you up with random people you’d have to date every single one? No, you can pick and choose, LFG is like said above a platform to ALLOW co-operation, not an obligation to co-operate.

Yes Elitists who are wholly too extreme exist, but the opposite does also,which are ‘dowhatIlike’ players who not only refuse to fulfill set requirements but also choose to be carried by those Elitists. They are both as rotten as each other, the rest of us shouldn’t have to suffer for their BS.

Thank you, though I can’t tell if you’re calling me out on being Elitest, I don’t feel like I am, and don’t think it was elitist of me to know my limitations, like the ability to carry 3 inexpereanced light armored players in Arah. (Arah is not my beach yet, still trying to tame her)

Also I do take on newbies to dungeons I know well and am willing to teach, even this expereance doesn’t turn me off from that, but when I don’t feel like carrying/teaching I think I should be able to find other players of similar skill set to mine.

P.S. Not like it matters very much, I, OP is a lady not a dude.

cthaeh.2168:

PistolWhip.2697:

I can’t believe there are a bunch of replies here saying that OP was wrong, and or that they had what was coming to them.

What I can’t believe is why the OP, someone who clearly was not prepared to accept random people into the party, posted to the LFG in the first place. If you’re not willing to play with random people, why invite random people? Don’t like it? THEN DON’T PUG

PistolWhip.2697:

Just because LFG is there, it doesn’t mean you have to accept playing with anyone. When did this become a thing?

It became a thing when LFG was invented? You have to accept them if you’re inviting them. That’s how inviting works. Don’t want to accept them? Then don’t invite them. This is really, really simple. If you’re not willing to play with them, then leave the party.

Exactly, no one is inviting them. If I make an LFG looking for experienced players Im inviting experienced players, not new ones. Thus new ones aren’t invited.

@Nadya
My bad, I just assume all players are male till told otherwise, habit. Yeah no I meant elitism in general, not your situation.

Khisanth.2948:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Short of simply removing the ability to kick people all together, there isn’t really an abuse-free method available.

removing the ability to kick would allow plenty of opportunities to be a jerk without risk. I wouldn’t call that abuse-free.

i never said that that specific method would be abuse free either, honestly. but looking at just the available methods of implementing a kick system, there is no abuse free method. be it party leader, majority vote, or w/e. yes removing kicking all together is abuseable too, because now your only option is to leave when someone is being a kitten.

though, I suppose my wording can be misleading. I should have qualified that there would have to be a serious amount of limitations imposed in a no-kick system to make it even remotely non-abuseable. Honestly, in order to overcome the base issue here (people) the only way to curb abuse would be to start imposing stricter limitations on what players can and cant do. To better control what is considered acceptable behavior. At which point we start straying into other issues…

Despite the 3 pages of venting that seem to be going on, I cannot even remember if I have ever been kicked from a LFG group…and I mostly run in LFGs for fractals (even 50s) and dungeons. I know I have quit parties with toxic wanna-be leaders. I have also helped friends/people on occasion in Arah too and have never had an instance ‘stolen.’

What I can tell you is that I remember all too well having to redo fractals when, under the old system, the friend that started the instance DC’d. Since ‘aussie-net’ was pretty unreliable then (not sure about now), I started initiating instances but even I would suffer an occasional DC. That is why I really like the new system the way it is now.

My suggestion is don’t let it put you off, Nadya. Despite the occasional troll there are a LOT of great people in game. Some lessons are tough but focus on the positive. It is a game after all and we should be having fun. ^^