New Sigil unique cds - Eles and Engis - wut?

New Sigil unique cds - Eles and Engis - wut?

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Posted by: Ashadow.6874

Ashadow.6874

This refers to each sigil having a unique CD and being able to proc at the same time without their cool-downs interfering with each other in the upcoming ?April? patch.

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I have a VERY interesting point to raise.

With upcoming changes to On Crit and On Swap sigils, each having their own cool-downs. What happens to the two classes who are only allowed 1 weapon set, instead of 2 weapon sets like every other class in the game?

Warrior -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils
Guardian -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils
Thief -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils
Ranger -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils
Necromancer -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils
Mesmer -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils

Elementalist -> no weapon swap -> 2 sigils
Engineer -> no weapon swap -> 2 sigils

Does every other class get to proc 4 sigils (weapon swap) – while the Elementalist and Engineer are only allowed to proc 2 sigils (no weapon swap).

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Is this going to be limited? Or is it fair that 6 of the 8 classes get to do significantly more damage in both WvW and PvE due to being allowed to swap weapon sets?

Have the ramifications to this even been thought out yet? Can something be done about this BEFORE it becomes a huge problem?

I’m really hoping they thought this through, or else it will be a huge problem.

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(Imagine double swapping weapon sets to proc 4 on swap sigils, or swapping after a crit to proc 4 on crit sigils at once. The problem with this is that ELEMENTALISTS and ENGINEERS do NOT have a second weapon set to do this. Unlike all other classes in the game.)

#SAB 2014 plx

#OccupySAB2014

(edited by Ashadow.6874)

New Sigil unique cds - Eles and Engis - wut?

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Posted by: mercury ranique.2170

mercury ranique.2170

I think the biggest change is that 2h weapons are going to be able to use two sigil’s
This eliminates the issue for many weapons you are discussing. This eliminates half of your fears.

I personally dont think that anet is overlooking this and both classes could and should get an nice buff on their skills imo

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New Sigil unique cds - Eles and Engis - wut?

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Posted by: Ashadow.6874

Ashadow.6874

I think the biggest change is that 2h weapons are going to be able to use two sigil’s
This eliminates the issue for many weapons you are discussing. This eliminates half of your fears.

I personally dont think that anet is overlooking this and both classes could and should get an nice buff on their skills imo

Yes, 2 handed wouldn’t be an issue as they are going to change that.

I really hope they are not overlooking it, but in case they are. Hopefully they see this and realize they cannot just leave out two of the classes.

#SAB 2014 plx

#OccupySAB2014

New Sigil unique cds - Eles and Engis - wut?

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

This refers to each sigil having a unique CD and being able to proc at the same time without their cool-downs interfering with each other in the upcoming April? patch.

-

I have a VERY interesting point to raise.

With upcoming changes to On Crit and On Swap sigils, each having their own cool-downs. What happens to the two classes who are only allowed 1 weapon set, instead of 2 weapon sets like every other class in the game?

Warrior -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils
Guardian -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils
Thief -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils
Ranger -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils
Necromancer -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils
Mesmer -> weapon swap -> 4 sigils

Elementalist -> no weapon swap -> 2 sigils
Engineer -> no weapon swap -> 2 sigils

Does every other class get to proc 4 sigils (weapon swap) – while the Elementalist and Engineer are only allowed to proc 2 sigils (no weapon swap).

-

Is this going to be limited? Or is it fair that 6 of the 8 classes get to do significantly more damage in both WvW and PvE due to being allowed to swap weapon sets?

Have the ramifications to this even been thought out yet? Can something be done about this BEFORE it becomes a huge problem?

I’m really hoping they thought this through, or else it will be a huge problem.

-

(Imagine double swapping weapon sets to proc 4 on swap sigils, or swapping after a crit to proc 4 on crit sigils at once. The problem with this is that ELEMENTALISTS and ENGINEERS do NOT have a second weapon set to do this. Unlike all other classes in the game.)

you can only proc on swap skills every 10 seconds, you cant double swap, its not about having the weapon equipped, its about being able to swap. There are some advantages, which mostly have to do with variety, and long cool down sigils, but there are only a few of those.
the advantage that engi and ele have though, is if there are any on swap with short cool downs, they will be the 1 of 3 classes that can take advantage of it.

oh you mean out of combat on swap buffs? hmmm

New Sigil unique cds - Eles and Engis - wut?

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

I was under the impression that when elementalists swap attunement it triggers weapon swap Sigils. Engineers also trigger them when they switch between kits and their actual weapons IIRC. They have fewer Sigils to bounce between, but they have some of the best “on-demand” swapping behaviors.

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

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Posted by: Wanze.8410

Wanze.8410

They get the benefit of being OP to make up for the fact that for the 18 months, 2h weapons could only use 1 sigil instead of 2.

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Posted by: Ulion.5476

Ulion.5476

Attunement swap count as weapon swaps. So it is easy to proc those effects for a elementalist. The kits for engineers tend to be bug when it comes to weapon swaps and only work when you are dropping a kit.

Ele – Tarnished Coast
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New Sigil unique cds - Eles and Engis - wut?

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Posted by: Figment.9356

Figment.9356

I Don’t think most of you are understanding. A Warrior for example can have 4 diff weapons on, with 4 diff sigils. 2 sigils with an on crit, 1 with on swap and 1 as a stacking mechanism like bloodlust. Where elementalist for example, can only have 2 on crit, or 2 on swap, or 1 stacking and one other.

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Posted by: Substance E.4852

Substance E.4852

I Don’t think most of you are understanding. A Warrior for example can have 4 diff weapons on, with 4 diff sigils. 2 sigils with an on crit, 1 with on swap and 1 as a stacking mechanism like bloodlust. Where elementalist for example, can only have 2 on crit, or 2 on swap, or 1 stacking and one other.

They also have twice the skills to use.

Connection error(s) detected. Retrying…

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Posted by: Hydroclasm.8572

Hydroclasm.8572

I don’t really see what’s changed. The other classes have always been able to utilize more sigils than the engie or ele. I think the changes benefit everyone equally – if you believe that engies or eles are at a disadvantage because of sigils and no weapon swaps, that’s a different topic. Also

Imagine double swapping weapon sets to proc 4 on swap sigils, or swapping after a crit to proc 4 on crit sigils at once. The problem with this is that ELEMENTALISTS and ENGINEERS do NOT have a second weapon set to do this. Unlike all other classes in the game.

I’m having difficulty understanding this. On-swap sigils only activate when you’re in combat iirc, so you wouldn’t be able to proc 4 sigils by switching weapon sets twice due to the weapon swap cooldown. I don’t think that swapping after a crit works for on-crit sigils either, because to gain the benefit of the sigil you need to be holding the weapon the sigil is on when you crit (ie you need to crit twice, once with each weapon set to get all the sigil effects).

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Posted by: Meglobob.8620

Meglobob.8620

One thing about the sigil changes coming in that a lot of players seem to have overlooked is they are going to do a balance pass over them…

What does this mean?

Well, from the ‘Ready Up’ it seemed to mean a few existing sigils could get small nerfs to them because they think 2 sigils slotted into 2h weapons would be too powerful.

This means in practice anyone with 1h + offhand could get a nerf to there sigils with no compensation.

2h weapon users won’t mind, they will be happy just to have 2 sigils instead of one.

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Posted by: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Im more concerned with the weaponswap CD triats.

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Posted by: Truthbearer.9708

Truthbearer.9708

Not sure what your point is, looks pretty balanced to me. Ele’s and Engie’s get less equipped sigils than other classes but can proc them more often.
If your point is that every class should have the exact same stuff, then I’m not even going to go into that.

Besides, sigils are getting rebalanced anyway.

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Posted by: Ashadow.6874

Ashadow.6874

Not sure what your point is, looks pretty balanced to me. Ele’s and Engie’s get less equipped sigils than other classes but can proc them more often.
If your point is that every class should have the exact same stuff, then I’m not even going to go into that.

Besides, sigils are getting rebalanced anyway.

My main points, which are not coming across as well as I would have liked it to. Is this:

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Point #1:

War/Guard/Mes/Thief/Necro/Ranger will be able to have 4 sigils in use at once in combat. This may not seem like such a big deal but it means the following:

Weapon swap #1: Fire/Air (damage sigils)
Weapon swap #2: Water/Blood (healing sigils) (or Leeching, or Endurance)

What this means is that using combinations of sigils, all the classes EXCEPT Engineer and Elementalist will be able to use two different sets of sigils in combat.

An Elementalist or Engineer cannot do this without first LEAVING combat and then getting at a distance to weapon swap a new set, and then trying to get back into combat.

Those 6 classes could effectively use the second weapon set for healing, and their main weapon set for damaging.

Using it they effectively can gain both a:

Damage set of weapons
Healing set of weapons

All while in combat and never leaving it.

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Point (example) #2

Using Sigils of Energy on one weapon swap – 6 of the 8 classes – could be running Superior Sigil of Energy (or Hydromancy for chill, Doom for poison, Leeching for lifesteal, Geomancy for bleeds and Battle for might stacks and Intelligence for 100% crit for the next attack) on an offhand.

All of these without leaving combat. All of these without sacrificing any their main sigils.

They gain the ability to use additional conditions and apply them without leaving combat to swap weapons. While still maintaining their Stacking, or Fire, or Air sigils in combat.

The last two classes cannot do this and are forced into choosing which 2 sigils they want to use in combat. While the rest of the classes get double the effective sigil usage.

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Personally my Thief/Warrior/Mesmer would instantly be using:

Set 1#: Sigil of Fire/Sigil of Air
Set 2#: Sigil of Blood/Sigil of Leeching (or Doom, or Energy, or Hydromancy)

Swap in set one and crit until too low, swap to set #2 while in combat and start proc’cing up the heals with Blood until full (and Leech’s first hit) and then swap back to Set #1 and dropping Fire/Air on people with crits.

And I am sure others have already started planning to do this.

So why are Elementalists and Engineers going to be left out in the cold?

#SAB 2014 plx

#OccupySAB2014

(edited by Ashadow.6874)

New Sigil unique cds - Eles and Engis - wut?

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Posted by: thaooo.5320

thaooo.5320

Ele have 20 weapon skills, engis can also have up to 20 weapon skills + toolbelt skills.

You’re not missing out on anything.

Please don’t look at the game in a 1 dimensional way.

ALL IS VAIN.
PvP modes are the “endgame” in all MMOs.
Stop failing at PvE, and fix WvW/SPvP. Thank you.

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Posted by: Ensign.2189

Ensign.2189

This could potentially be an issue, but is unlikely to matter much because sigil cooldowns are short relative to your weapon swap cooldown, and they are all balanced against static cases anyway.

For example, if you had a bunch of very strong proc effects that were balanced by long cooldowns (like pre-nerf Rage), then you could start in one set, get your game changing procs, then swap to the other set and get the benefits of those sigils while your Rage sigil is on cooldown. That is, you get to take full advantage of four long cooldowns, while Eles/Engies only get two.

Of course most sigils in the game are not on very long cooldowns; they are on relatively short cooldowns. This blunts the advantage of running two different sets of sigils, as the first set will finish its cooldowns soon after swapping weapons, and then sitting idle waiting for you to swap back to their set.

The weapon swap sigils follow a similar story; since the weapon swap cooldown is 10s and the sigil cooldown 9 seconds, you will not gain any additional advantage by running 4 weapon swap sigils over an identical pair of sigils on both weapon sets; by the time you are able to trigger them again, the shared cooldown will be up.

The one big exception is Discipline Warriors that can swap weapons every 5 seconds. There is definitely an opportunity for an advantage there in running two different sets of on swap sigils, since you will be able to trigger them both independently. If that does prove to be an integral part of the class it should be balanced accordingly.

But for most classes, and most sigils, this is a non-issue. There may be a very slight advantage in running different proc sigils on different sets, if they are close enough substitutes for each other, but we’re talking about squeezing very small amounts of efficiency here – certainly not enough to hurt the balance standing of Eles and Engies in any meaningful way.