Guild Wars 2

Poledo.3256:

Poplolita.2638:

Poledo.3256:

It always amuses me when I see stuff like this. What does it matter if all the majority of people do is run CoF p1? That’s what they have decided they want to do, and that it gives them the best reward vs time. Instead of looking at something to create interest in other dungeons, they decide to nerf it across the board.

I look at it like this; if you own a restaurant and you have 10 menu choices and 90% of the people order 1 specific choice all the time, and the others sell sporadically what does this lead you to believe? That the other choices are just as good as choice 1 and that people just don’t know it so you need to force them to try the other ones? So you purposefully make your best selling dish less tasty and appealing to encourage more people to eat other meals. Seems like you would need to look at your other dishes and realize they aren’t as good as you thought and make them more tasty and appetizing to people.

kitten backwards thinking and I would fire someone who proposed to that me if I ran the business.

I think you should rethink your analogy. There is difference between “buy” and “gain”. As in you are in a restaurent to “buy” and not to gain. And in a dungeon to “gain” and “sell”. The only think remotely close to this dungeon change … well nothing.

My analogy is fine you are just trying to apply the wrong parameters to it. Basically if you design multiple things, and people only like 1, you don’t change the 1 to make it worse you change the others that people aren’t interested in.

“you don’t change the 1 to make it worse you change the others that people aren’t interested in.”

Not sure where you are going at. By changing the reward, they did not make the “option” 1 worse, its still the same, but make the other options more appealing for Pve players in general.

If we go back to your analogy, it’s still bad. I didn’t know most of us “grind” option 1 in a restaurent until we exploid…

Edit: At this point, R.I.P cof 1 farmer. You will be missed.

To the restaurant analogy, I guess a fair question would be is do the people running CoF1 over and over on their main/alts truly enjoying themselves the way customers in said restaurant preferred the one dish over the other nine? Or are the people running Cof1 over and over doing so because it is the established belief that is the only viable, time-efficient way of generating income in-game?

To use your analogy wouldn’t it be rather that CoF1 for awhile now has been the quickest way to feel like your hunger had been satisfied, and they’re now trying to expand the palette and let people realize that there are other, just as tasty ways of satisfying that hunger?

Not that it phases me one way or the other … unless they suddenly decide to make dungeons scalable so they can be soloed by anyone who would like to stroll them at an exceptionally leisurely pace.

It’s become clear over time that this game hates alts. Good thing the only characters I care about have all the armor they need, it will take forever to grind tokens for gear now.

Why i didnt make my Alts just for running dungeons i certainly enjoy doing so with them. I enjoy all my alts as well as my main. To me it seems way more repetitive to be rewarded for only 1 character on multiple paths then to repeat the same path on a multiple characters.
If this is Account bound instead of Character then they need to change their patch preview to read… Now you have even more incentive for braving the hazards of the dungeons of Tyria unless you have alts in which case you now have far less!!!!
This is billed as buff not a nerf, if it was going to “CHANGED” to “NOW” be restricted as account bound this is a nerf and needs posted as such.

Unknown.3672:

I think if they want to do things account based why not go all the way with it. Lets see dungeon story modes, fractal level, WvW Ranks, and skins all be account bound.

i’m not trying to get all “conspiracy theory” on you, but i wouldn’t be a single bit surprised if it had to do with the gemstore. it takes a lot of time to level and gear an alt, time that can be shortened if you use the gemstore. anything that prolongs the discomfort just a bit would ultimately benefit them.

Poplolita.2638:

Poledo.3256:

Poplolita.2638:

Poledo.3256:

It always amuses me when I see stuff like this. What does it matter if all the majority of people do is run CoF p1? That’s what they have decided they want to do, and that it gives them the best reward vs time. Instead of looking at something to create interest in other dungeons, they decide to nerf it across the board.

I look at it like this; if you own a restaurant and you have 10 menu choices and 90% of the people order 1 specific choice all the time, and the others sell sporadically what does this lead you to believe? That the other choices are just as good as choice 1 and that people just don’t know it so you need to force them to try the other ones? So you purposefully make your best selling dish less tasty and appealing to encourage more people to eat other meals. Seems like you would need to look at your other dishes and realize they aren’t as good as you thought and make them more tasty and appetizing to people.

kitten backwards thinking and I would fire someone who proposed to that me if I ran the business.

I think you should rethink your analogy. There is difference between “buy” and “gain”. As in you are in a restaurent to “buy” and not to gain. And in a dungeon to “gain” and “sell”. The only think remotely close to this dungeon change … well nothing.

My analogy is fine you are just trying to apply the wrong parameters to it. Basically if you design multiple things, and people only like 1, you don’t change the 1 to make it worse you change the others that people aren’t interested in.

“you don’t change the 1 to make it worse you change the others that people aren’t interested in.”

Not sure where you are going at. By changing the reward, they did not make the “option” 1 worse, its still the same, but make the other options more appealing for Pve players in general.

If we go back to your analogy, it’s still bad. I didn’t know most of us “grind” option 1 in a restaurent until we exploid…

Edit: At this point, R.I.P cof 1 farmer. You will be missed.

They are making the change to encourage others to try something else. I’m sorry that you are being to literal to understand what I am getting at.

I’m sorry for the design that no one wants to run there other dungeons, but that’s not my fault so fix what’s wrong with the other dungeons and don’t make changes to discourage players to run the one they want. As long as people are playing the game what does it matter if someone runs the same dungeons repeatedly, runs multiple dungeons or runs into a wall the whole time they are online?

Hint: It doesn’t matter.

Poledo.3256:

Poplolita.2638:

Poledo.3256:

Poplolita.2638:

Poledo.3256:

It always amuses me when I see stuff like this. What does it matter if all the majority of people do is run CoF p1? That’s what they have decided they want to do, and that it gives them the best reward vs time. Instead of looking at something to create interest in other dungeons, they decide to nerf it across the board.

I look at it like this; if you own a restaurant and you have 10 menu choices and 90% of the people order 1 specific choice all the time, and the others sell sporadically what does this lead you to believe? That the other choices are just as good as choice 1 and that people just don’t know it so you need to force them to try the other ones? So you purposefully make your best selling dish less tasty and appealing to encourage more people to eat other meals. Seems like you would need to look at your other dishes and realize they aren’t as good as you thought and make them more tasty and appetizing to people.

kitten backwards thinking and I would fire someone who proposed to that me if I ran the business.

I think you should rethink your analogy. There is difference between “buy” and “gain”. As in you are in a restaurent to “buy” and not to gain. And in a dungeon to “gain” and “sell”. The only think remotely close to this dungeon change … well nothing.

My analogy is fine you are just trying to apply the wrong parameters to it. Basically if you design multiple things, and people only like 1, you don’t change the 1 to make it worse you change the others that people aren’t interested in.

“you don’t change the 1 to make it worse you change the others that people aren’t interested in.”

Not sure where you are going at. By changing the reward, they did not make the “option” 1 worse, its still the same, but make the other options more appealing for Pve players in general.

If we go back to your analogy, it’s still bad. I didn’t know most of us “grind” option 1 in a restaurent until we exploid…

Edit: At this point, R.I.P cof 1 farmer. You will be missed.

They are making the change to encourage others to try something else. I’m sorry that you are being to literal to understand what I am getting at.

I’m sorry for the design that no one wants to run there other dungeons, but that’s not my fault so fix what’s wrong with the other dungeons and don’t make changes to discourage players to run the one they want. As long as people are playing the game what does it matter if someone runs the same dungeons repeatedly, runs multiple dungeons or runs into a wall the whole time they are online?

Hint: It doesn’t matter.

I’m sorry, but you lost all credibility the moment you made that anology. It clearly shows you are obviously against grind nerf. This is one step in the right direction, and there should be no arguing in that. Sometime, there is a need to be dogmatic against player like you that argue for the sake of arguing. And could you please remplace “players” by “I” for god sake. Stop assuming every players want to play the way you want. I have no sympathy for people defending cof1.
“don’t make changes to discourage players to run the one they want.” Obviously, cof1 design iz that best in tha game, we don care ‘bout reward!, why would arena Net forces us to not run it more than once per day? Oh wait… I’m might sometime be literal. You sure are deluded in the other hand.

R.I.P. cof1 farmer. You will be missed.

I would be very surprised if its not account bound. They are clearly trying to cut down on using easy dungeons for gold farming.

Poledo.3256:

It always amuses me when I see stuff like this. What does it matter if all the majority of people do is run CoF p1?

Cause it creates inflation.

morrolan.9608:

Poledo.3256:

It always amuses me when I see stuff like this. What does it matter if all the majority of people do is run CoF p1?

Cause it creates inflation.

So we’re not supposed to make money at a decent rate unless we are screwing others out of their money by flipping items on the TP and being leeches on the system?

SynfulChaot.3169:

So we’re not supposed to make money at a decent rate unless we are screwing others out of their money by flipping items on the TP and being leeches on the system?

COF path 1 does not make you money at a decent rate, it makes it at an accelerated rate, out of kilter with the rest of the game bar TP flipping. FWIW I don’t like TP flipping either.

This looks like another farm nerf. It’s fairly obvious by now that Anet hates farming since each one is nerfed in turn. Making sure the majority of players can’t make money quickly compared with TP prices on higher end items ensures players are buying enough in-game gold with actual money rather than earning it in-game.

morrolan.9608:

SynfulChaot.3169:

So we’re not supposed to make money at a decent rate unless we are screwing others out of their money by flipping items on the TP and being leeches on the system?

COF path 1 does not make you money at a decent rate, it makes it at an accelerated rate, out of kilter with the rest of the game bar TP flipping. FWIW I don’t like TP flipping either.

Yes. But that accelerated rate is needed if you don’t want to spend months for a single rare item.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Making sure the majority of players can’t make money quickly compared with TP prices on higher end items ensures players are buying enough in-game gold with actual money rather than earning it in-game.

If that is indeed the case, then I will be losing all respect for a company that I do highly respect (except for the economist). I really, really hope that is not the case.

Xhyros.1340:

Infernia.9847:

If it is an account wide reward then please allow achievements to be account wide as well. Ie. Story mode is completed on your main, it’s counted as completed for all characters.

edit: grammatical error

Why not go all the way and make every single stat/skin account bound. If I unlock dungeon armor for one char, make me able to use it for every other char, if they do make all these reward changes accountbound.

I would love something along these lines but with legendaries make them like the zenith weapons and let use withdraw the skins for our account, is this so unreasonable?

Lol we should be careful with all these requests a mod will come by here and (delete) move the posts the the graveyard that is the suggestions sub forum.

It’s not a nerf to alts. The only things that can be considered nerfs to alts are concepts along the lines of time gated gear and non tradable one time acquisitions.

If it’s per character, then suddenly it’s more rewarding to play multiple characters for equal amounts of time than playing your favorite character the whole time because the rewards aren’t soul bound.

Navzar.2938:

It’s not a nerf to alts. The only things that can be considered nerfs to alts are concepts along the lines of time gated gear and non tradable one time acquisitions.

If it’s per character, then suddenly it’s more rewarding to play multiple characters for equal amounts of time than playing your favorite character the whole time because the rewards aren’t soul bound.

We don’t yet know if it will or won’t be. It will depend on if the gold reward chests are chara-bound or account-bound. Because if it is account-bound, this will be the latest in a long, long string of ANet punishing us for deigning to play more than one chara. I mean, it’s not like we want to actually gear our alts, right? Right?

Personally I hope that the rewards for dungeon paths are per character, but I expect that it will be account-wide. As an altoholic myself, I’ve kinda resigned myself to the fact I will just have to accept it taking a lot longer to gear up alts.

Zaxares.5419:

Personally I hope that the rewards for dungeon paths are per character, but I expect that it will be account-wide. As an altoholic myself, I’ve kinda resigned myself to the fact I will just have to accept it taking a lot longer to gear up alts.

Yeah. It’s disheartening. They gave us 5 chara slots to begin with, enough for one of each race, and many achievements are linked to race-specific personal stories. And then they keep punishing us for using said alts by rewarding us less despite the fact that we already must play more to have and gear the alts in the first place. And then we must play even more as we get rewarded less for playing them.

I think the gold reward should be account bound, so that you get the normal reward once per account per day… but the tokens rewards should be character bound, so that you can get 66 piece for each character you play the dungeon with.

This way you can gear your alts more easy, but it won’t be completely unfair to people with just 1 character. I think this would be doable with 2 chests; one with the tokens and one with the gold. Just make the gold-one account bound and the token-one character bound.

Onis.2418:

I think the gold reward should be account bound, so that you get the normal reward once per account per day… but the tokens rewards should be character bound, so that you can get 66 piece for each character you play the dungeon with.

This way you can gear your alts more easy, but it won’t be completely unfair to people with just 1 character. I think this would be doable with 2 chests; one with the tokens and one with the gold. Just make the gold-one account bound and the token-one character bound.

What if dungeons don’t have the skins or stats you’re looking for? What if you’re running the dungeons for money to afford to buy the skins/stats. Then you’re still held back and must take many days to do what you should be able to do in far fewer.

All i can say is, if the changes do not agree with you move on to games where they do, i did and i don’t regret it, also if enough move on things obviously will change back to keep people playing..

Why would anyone play a game they do not enjoy is beyond me.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Onis.2418:

I think the gold reward should be account bound, so that you get the normal reward once per account per day… but the tokens rewards should be character bound, so that you can get 66 piece for each character you play the dungeon with.

This way you can gear your alts more easy, but it won’t be completely unfair to people with just 1 character. I think this would be doable with 2 chests; one with the tokens and one with the gold. Just make the gold-one account bound and the token-one character bound.

What if dungeons don’t have the skins or stats you’re looking for? What if you’re running the dungeons for money to afford to buy the skins/stats. Then you’re still held back and must take many days to do what you should be able to do in far fewer.

To me that sounds more like something you do for fun, not out of necessity since you don’t need to be pretty in order to be useful… and if I remember correctly there’s only 3 sets that dungeons don’t have (x-mas set, the new crystal set and the karka set). In my opinion the tokens should be character bound, because they will let you have good, basic exotic armor so that you can be useful for others in group.

The problem is that if you do get gold, which is a currency used for most things in this game and not account bound – it influences other people, you will automatically be in a better position than other players who opt only for 1 character.

Everyone keep saying its a nerf but to read the update its a buff. Let us look….

“Each day when you finish a unique path for any explorable or story dungeon, you’ll receive a bonus reward for completion—1 to 3 gold for explorable dungeons depending on their length and difficulty, 50 silver for story dungeons. Guaranteed coin rewards that previously dropped from bosses in dungeons have been removed in lieu of these new rewards for dungeon completion; all other drops off of bosses have not been changed. Now you have even more incentive for braving the hazards of the dungeons of Tyria!”
It clearly says more incentive not less.

Onis.2418:

SynfulChaot.3169:

What if dungeons don’t have the skins or stats you’re looking for? What if you’re running the dungeons for money to afford to buy the skins/stats. Then you’re still held back and must take many days to do what you should be able to do in far fewer.

To me that sounds more like something you do for fun, not out of necessity since you don’t need to be pretty in order to be useful… and if I remember correctly there’s only 3 sets that dungeons don’t have (x-mas set, the new crystal set and the karka set). In my opinion the tokens should be character bound, because they will let you have good, basic exotic armor so that you can be useful for others in group.

There is no point to me playing a chara if they will be stuck in ugly armor. Expecting otherwise is to impose your playstyle on me. I’d like it if you wouldn’t do that.

As for non-event acquired stats, dungeons are also missing Valkyrie, Explorer, and Apothecary stats for all equipment and Cavalier and Wayfarer for trinkets.

Onis.2418:

The problem is that if you do get gold, which is a currency used for most things in this game and not account bound – it influences other people, you will automatically be in a better position than other players who opt only for 1 character.

But you are forgetting that by running multiple charas, my costs for equipping them are that much higher. I have a higher cost just to get to the same level of equipment across all my charas. So just because I choose to run multiple charas and have that higher cost just to equip them, I should be fine with the same money income as a player that only needs to equip one chara?

Basically as a player who runs only one, it seems you believe that noone else should be able to as easily equip their alts. That seems quite selfish, honestly.

Ballads.2509:

Everyone keep saying its a nerf but to read the update its a buff. Let us look….

“Each day when you finish a unique path for any explorable or story dungeon, you’ll receive a bonus reward for completion—1 to 3 gold for explorable dungeons depending on their length and difficulty, 50 silver for story dungeons. Guaranteed coin rewards that previously dropped from bosses in dungeons have been removed in lieu of these new rewards for dungeon completion; all other drops off of bosses have not been changed. Now you have even more incentive for braving the hazards of the dungeons of Tyria!”
It clearly says more incentive not less.

It’s a buff if you only run a path once a day. But for those that grind dungeons for the money rewards, it’s a massive nerf.

… but I have 9 characters, from which 5 are lvl 80 with exotics and few of them have ascendeds. They would probably all be lvl 80 with exotics/ascendeds, if I didn’t spend so much on making them look pretty. I also happen to have so many alts, because not only do I like having different looking characters that I can buy different clothes, I enjoy the different playstyles and frequently switch them in dungeons.

However, I do realize that it is also something I chose.
I don’t believe just because I like my alts to be pretty or want a special stat set, I should get it automatically just because I have more characters. I’m fine with getting a set that works decently for them – and if it doesn’t, I’ll just work more to get one that is more interesting to me. To me it just makes more sense that if I myself choose to have multiple characters, equipping them also should take a little extra compared to others – since they do have obvious positive effects also such as leaving them on JP or getting tokens easier.

I think you’re completely ignoring the effect it would have on people who opt for 1 character if people with alts would get the gold gain as well. In most cases people would just create alts so they can switch it on dungeons, then use the gold for 1 character, there would be immediate inflation on gold and you would be again weeping because some people use their 8 characters to get 1 character have all the cool things, while you’re still left equipping your own 8 characters.

If it’s dungeon tokens, which are account bound, they will not mess with the normal currency used (gold), and they will be efficient for people with alts as well. I suppose it would be fair if they added those stat combinations to dungeon sets though.

this is great. take that elitist minmaxing nerds for kicking me out of cof parties because i refuse to roll a class i find extremely boring! anyway now all anet has to do is to make it worthwhile to take other builds besides full zerk dps into dungeons.

I don’t see why they should make it accountbound instead of characterbound.
To spread people more over the dungeons? The money makers are going to find a most profitable sequence within a couple of days anyway.

Making it characterbound would still introduce more profession diversity in dungeons. After all, how many players have 8 lv.80 warriors? We might actually see some necro’s and engineers in dungeons gasp

Evans.6347:

Making it characterbound would still introduce more profession diversity in dungeons. After all, how many players have 8 lv.80 warriors? We might actually see some necro’s and engineers in dungeons gasp

I know, right? I run nine charas and if it’s account-bound, then you’ll rarely see any of my alts as it simply won’t be worth my time to pull them out.

Evans.6347:

I don’t see why they should make it accountbound instead of characterbound.
To spread people more over the dungeons? The money makers are going to find a most profitable sequence within a couple of days anyway.

Making it characterbound would still introduce more profession diversity in dungeons. After all, how many players have 8 lv.80 warriors? We might actually see some necro’s and engineers in dungeons gasp

You forget that making it character bound is open to abuse. Someone can have a fully geared character and a bunch of alts that aren’t even properly geared. They run the dungeon with the fully geared character and switch at the end to one of the alts to receive the gold reward for that alt. Rinse and repeat for the next alt. Assuming no DR is involved, this essentially yields 1g+ per run (and becomes a cof farmer’s heaven). Profession diversity is just a ruse. Making the gold reward account bound would prevent this abuse. Tokens and such should still be character bound.

ITT:

Those that play multiple charas and those that think they should not get any benefit from it as those players only play one chara. Aka, I can’t have it so you shouldn’t have it either.

More like, people whining cause they can’t farm CoF anymore.

Manuhell.2759:

More like, people whining cause they can’t farm CoF anymore.

I don’t see whining.

I do, however, see many people trying to figure out if dungeons got rewards nerfed enough that they are no longer viable for repeated farming.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Manuhell.2759:

More like, people whining cause they can’t farm CoF anymore.

I don’t see whining.

I do, however, see many people trying to figure out if dungeons got rewards nerfed enough that they are no longer viable for repeated farming.

I would say that’s kinda the point of the whole update – nerfing the rewards you get for doing the same path repeatedly, especially if they’re considered easy (thus CoF 1 will have, like, the minimal reward). And giving better rewards to dungeons that aren’t being used much cause they aren’t easy and farmable as CoF 1.

Manuhell.2759:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Manuhell.2759:

More like, people whining cause they can’t farm CoF anymore.

I don’t see whining.

I do, however, see many people trying to figure out if dungeons got rewards nerfed enough that they are no longer viable for repeated farming.

I would say that’s kinda the point of the whole update – nerfing the rewards you get for doing the same path repeatedly, especially if they’re considered easy (thus CoF 1 will have, like, the minimal reward). And giving better rewards to dungeons that aren’t being used much cause they aren’t easy and farmable as CoF 1.

I see it this way as well. You want to farm dungeons? Farm them in a cycle instead of a single one over and over.