Guild Wars 2

When you water-down and time gate stuff too much to “appeal to new players”, you end up frustrating actual gamers, who enjoy a certain degree of complexity because it makes “figuring the game out” more enjoyable. More importantly, it gives them room to actually use their brains and experiment, which allows them to properly invest in the game and their character(s). Nobody benefits from excessive hand-holding, and if they really need it, it should be coming from friends, or, at most be optional within the game.

One of the major issues that led to many people bailing out of GW2 early on was actually a lack of complexity, not too much of it. Most people liked the large skill selection and build experimentation they could do from GW1 and its absence in GW2 could easily be considered a mark against it.

What’s worse, these methods rarely result in any major influx of new players, simply because non-gamers aren’t often going to randomly pick up and start playing an MMO, much less actually get into it. The few people that would do that likely already have a resource to help them and/or would enjoy the freedom of figuring it out on their own.

Colin has stated a few things over the years in interviews that made me feel like he was under the impression players were a lot dumber than they actually are, such as the comment about LW season 1 not working because of how they released features and content at the same time. Apparently it was a problem because it was really confusing to players, not because it was of very consistently mediocre quality. This kind of thing is very alarming and they need to seriously consider an about-face.

Correction. Old gamers liked complexity.

We now have players that cannot handle things being “too complicated”.

It’s easier to cater to people who love Facebook and Smartphone though.
It doesn’t take as much work and effort.
Difficult, rewarding and interesting content/games requires more work.

No, nobody likes complexity whether they realize it or not. One of the first things you learn in design school. What people do like is depth, which comes at the cost of complexity.

However, there were no permanent mechanical changes made to the game, neither depth nor complexity have in any way been affected. This argument is completely nonsensical.

In reality the problem is they time-gated a bunch of mechanics that didn’t need time gating, claiming that it is because it is better to steadily introduce content than explain it, which any educator (or anyone the least bit studious) can tell you is also complete nonsense.

How do you know how new players react on this system?
Unless you have the metrics, it’s impossible for you, as a biased veteran, to comment on that.

I’m happy with this feature patch. When I bought the game at launch, I unlocked my first utility skill at level 5. So naturally, I panicked. It was quite a traumatic experience.

Einlanzer.1627:

When you water-down and time gate stuff too much to “appeal to new players”, you end up frustrating actual gamers, who enjoy a certain degree of complexity because it makes “figuring the game out” more enjoyable. More importantly, it gives them room to actually use their brains and experiment, which allows them to properly invest in the game and their character(s). Nobody benefits from excessive hand-holding, and if they really need it, it should be coming from friends and not forced by the game itself.

Devil’s advocating here:

Watering down aspects of the game that are not intended to be difficult but are confusing a sufficiently large portion of the playerbase is a good thing. If ANet’s findings on early leveling is accurate, fair enough making changes. I hope this helps.

It’s only a problem because there is no compromise. Players who didn’t want or need to be slowed down don’t get any compensating difficulty while leveling. Let players unlock slots early via challenges or something.

All. I need.
To not have a problem with this.

Is an option to turn it off.

That’s all.

Conncept.7638:

No, nobody likes complexity whether they realize it or not. One of the first things you learn in design school. What people do like is depth, which comes at the cost of complexity.

However, there were no permanent mechanical changes made to the game, neither depth nor complexity have in any way been affected. This argument is completely nonsensical.

In reality the problem is they time-gated a bunch of mechanics that didn’t need time gating, claiming that it is because it is better to steadily introduce content than explain it, which any educator (or anyone the least bit studious) can tell you is also complete nonsense.

You’re being pedantic here. What I’m essentially arguing is the same thing that you’re arguing, except you’re denying that the time-gating affects depth when it clearly does. Depth in the leveling process is as important if not more so than depth at the level cap.

What they really should do, at least, is give you bonus xp for every level 60 you have.

Why do people think they’re experts on this? One of the absolute basic skills designers need to have is getting out of their own (and their peer groups) heads and trying to understand what more users want.

Windsagio.1340:

Why do people think they’re experts on this? One of the absolute basic skills designers need to have is getting out of their own (and their peer groups) heads and trying to understand what more users want.

Because I’m an expert on everything.

Einlanzer.1627:

Conncept.7638:

No, nobody likes complexity whether they realize it or not. One of the first things you learn in design school. What people do like is depth, which comes at the cost of complexity.

However, there were no permanent mechanical changes made to the game, neither depth nor complexity have in any way been affected. This argument is completely nonsensical.

In reality the problem is they time-gated a bunch of mechanics that didn’t need time gating, claiming that it is because it is better to steadily introduce content than explain it, which any educator (or anyone the least bit studious) can tell you is also complete nonsense.

You’re being pedantic here. What I’m essentially arguing is the same thing that you’re arguing, except you’re denying that the time-gating affects depth when it clearly does. Depth in the leveling process is as important if not more so than depth at the level cap.

I am neither being pedantic, nor does this do what you claim at all, let alone do it by an assumption of clarity based on your own viewpoint and that alone.

First, if we’re going to address this issue, address the actual issue, not some nonsensical sidepath inspired by buzzwords that weaken your argument. Complexity is not the issue, and is never a goal in design, it is a cost, controlled by clarity. These changes did no harm to depth, the actual goal, their attempt was at taking away complexity cost by adding clarity. They failed, miserably. Players will not understand a poorly (or not at all) explained mechanic at level one any better than they will understand it at level thirty.

Second, depth is about how far you go in to something. How exactly does an effect limited to the first thirty levels of the game, without any actual permanent changes to any mechanics beyond that, affect depth? It does not. Damage to the introductory experience has no affect on depth of play. It still has an effect on gameplay, just not depth of that gameplay.

And yes, we do agree, your feedback could just be more valuable were you to address the actual issue in whole instead of in part.

Conncept.7638:

Einlanzer.1627:

Conncept.7638:

No, nobody likes complexity whether they realize it or not. One of the first things you learn in design school. What people do like is depth, which comes at the cost of complexity.

However, there were no permanent mechanical changes made to the game, neither depth nor complexity have in any way been affected. This argument is completely nonsensical.

In reality the problem is they time-gated a bunch of mechanics that didn’t need time gating, claiming that it is because it is better to steadily introduce content than explain it, which any educator (or anyone the least bit studious) can tell you is also complete nonsense.

You’re being pedantic here. What I’m essentially arguing is the same thing that you’re arguing, except you’re denying that the time-gating affects depth when it clearly does. Depth in the leveling process is as important if not more so than depth at the level cap.

I am neither being pedantic, nor does this do what you claim at all, let alone do it by an assumption of clarity based on your own viewpoint and that alone.

First, if we’re going to address this issue, address the actual issue, not some nonsensical sidepath inspired by buzzwords that weaken your argument. Complexity is not the issue, and is never a goal in design, it is a cost, controlled by clarity. These changes did no harm to depth, the actual goal, their attempt was at taking away complexity cost by adding clarity. They failed, miserably. Players will not understand a poorly (or not at all) explained mechanic at level one any better than they will understand it at level thirty.

Second, depth is about how far you go in to something. How exactly does an effect limited to the first thirty levels of the game, without any actual permanent changes to any mechanics beyond that, affect depth? It does not. Damage to the introductory experience has no affect on depth of play. It still has an effect on gameplay, but not depth of gameplay.

It does have an effect on depth of gameplay at those levels, which is an important consideration. And, I still think you’re being pedantic.