Guild Wars 2

Kuro Zetsumei.1397:

Melfice.5091:

As someone who is bad at pvp but still pvps on a daily basis I have to say that this community is a lot more forgiving than in other games, and I’ve played it on both eu and na. If you want to see what a real toxic community looks like, play some League of Legends

I play League of legends, although I agree that community is by far the worst, GW2’s isn’t far behind.

GW2 is lightyears behind in toxicity compared to LoL. Have you played and FPS? they are far worse.

WoW once allowed both factions to talk to each other but the amount of toxic behaviour forced them to revert their decision. Even then the amount of toxic behaviour amongst your own team is enough. They are a terrible bunch.

Sure you get the occasional toxic person but normally its when you destroy them in pvp and they complain that whatever class you’re playing is the most OP one currently. To me its a sense of accomplishment – I have got into this person’s head so much he feels like he needs to defend his poor play.

I’ve also played 100’s of pvp matches and nothing really stands out as being overly toxic.

Rauderi.8706:

Aomine.5012:

They’re not any “nicer”.
They just don’t care, that’s why they’re not angry.
This type of attitude is actually even worse than people who gets mad or sad when they lose. They just simply don’t care about pvp in general, that improvement and regret is not necessary at all.

If you put those people in a world boss that’d fail if the people are not coordinate, and the reward is precursor, they’d suddenly become hostile when they fail. That’s the true nature of human being, simple as that.

Stop imposing those hypocritical theories on other people.

You’re comparing the conclusion of a 5-minute match to… an item worth hundreds of gold, hours of play time, and excessive rarity.

Those rewards don’t even compare, so it’s not even hypocritical. Please don’t try to bring flimsy logic just so you can vilify this otherwise wonderful community.

Did you notice you just prove my point right?
Make people care, and things will become toxic.
The reason you PVErs don’t behave in a toxic way in PVP is only because you guys don’t care about losing or winning in PVP, all you care is that daily reward.

There’s no such thing as “nice community” when you make people compete with each other.

Its quite easy to fix it.
PVE
Find 4 friends and do stuff with them.
PVP
Find 4 friends and pvp with them + turn off the map chat

If you can’t find 4 people to do stuff in a MMO with.
Well, maybe you should consider yourself being the rotten egg

xDudisx.5914:

Jerus.4350:

xDudisx.5914:

Harper.4173:

xDudisx.5914:

Open world pve is probably the best community. Followed by wvw. The 2 most toxic communities are spvp and dungeon.

Where skill and individual performance actually matter and you can’t just blob together with 109238129083 other players and be carried to victory by said numbers.

Pve is 90% about bring the right gear+comp and 1 or 2 dodges sometimes. Most dmg is bypassed with reflect+block+ kill the mob to fast before I die.

Even wvw require more skill because you are agaist a player not an npc that does the same skill rotation every time.

Have you ever gotten out of the AC/CoF1/SE1 rotation? I mean, if you do the easiest quick dungeons then, yeah…

Personally I’ve found the Open world PVE community far more insulting than the dungeon one, but of course that may just be because I see more of them so it gets spammed across my screen, where dungeons are generally one guy being a jerk and either I leave or someone else kicks him so… yeah.

Quick list of super easy dungeon that anyone can run in zerker gear even without paying much attention:

ac 1,2 and 3
cm 1,2 and 3
ta up and fw
se 1 and 3
cof 1 and 2
coe 1,2 and 3

I just listed around 75% of the dungeon paths available. Did you just notice that the huge majority of the pve takes no skill? Compare pve dungeons with wvw or spvp is a joke. Do you really think a boss programed to do always the same skill rotation is harder to fight than a real player?

Quick list of WvW maps that anyone can zerg in any gear without even looking at the screen:

All WvW maps

naiasonod.9265:

PvP should never not be included in these games, I conclude. It’s a wonderful cesspit for those that like rolling around in vitriol, and keeps them more often out of everyone else’s hair.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say PvP, but I agree completely that Arena esport esque modes is one of the biggest mistakes a studio can introduce into mmorpg. For all the trouble that ensues mixing esports & mmorpg it seems to be nothing more than a marketing cash grab of customers that enjoy the esport scene that usually would never play a mmorpg.

Nothing would please me more to put the focus back/all into WvW as GW2 sole pvp mode. Take a tip from City Slate CU, it’s the way to go.

The PvP-phobia in this thread is amazing. The community is not THAT toxic, but because of such threads it has come to the point where you think about using team chat twice since you could be labeled a “rager” for saying “please don’t go mid” or “don’t push far”…

Also, if that necro in your example was actually trying necro for the first time and they went to unranked immediately, i can see why people would tell them to go to hot join (or maybe some stronger words).

It’s quite toxic to join unranked/ranked with a class you don’t know how to play because you will be a dead weight for your team to carry.

serenke.4806:

The PvP-phobia in this thread is amazing. The community is not THAT toxic, but because of such threads it has come to the point where you think about using team chat twice since you could be labeled a “rager” for saying “please don’t go mid” or “don’t push far”…

Also, if that necro in your example was actually trying necro for the first time and they went to unranked immediately, i can see why people would tell them to go to hot join (or maybe some stronger words).

It’s quite toxic to join unranked/ranked with a class you don’t know how to play because you will be a dead weight for your team to carry.

Phobia implies fear. In my case, I fear PvP about as much as I fear a screaming toddler at the movie theater.

It’s a nuisance to me, and one that seems to do everything in its power to be unignorable as often as possible.

Not a thing more.

xDudisx.5914:

Do you really think a boss programed to do always the same skill rotation is harder to fight than a real player?

Average wvw player? Ye, pretty much.

Here’s the thing. PvP is competitive. Every competitive aspect of the game will have toxic players, tryhards and sore losers. PvE on the other hand is more chill out in this game so ppl actually start caring more about the social aspect of the game. I havent found a single toxic player outside PvP.

xDudisx.5914:

Jerus.4350:

xDudisx.5914:

Harper.4173:

xDudisx.5914:

Open world pve is probably the best community. Followed by wvw. The 2 most toxic communities are spvp and dungeon.

Where skill and individual performance actually matter and you can’t just blob together with 109238129083 other players and be carried to victory by said numbers.

Pve is 90% about bring the right gear+comp and 1 or 2 dodges sometimes. Most dmg is bypassed with reflect+block+ kill the mob to fast before I die.

Even wvw require more skill because you are agaist a player not an npc that does the same skill rotation every time.

Have you ever gotten out of the AC/CoF1/SE1 rotation? I mean, if you do the easiest quick dungeons then, yeah…

Personally I’ve found the Open world PVE community far more insulting than the dungeon one, but of course that may just be because I see more of them so it gets spammed across my screen, where dungeons are generally one guy being a jerk and either I leave or someone else kicks him so… yeah.

Quick list of super easy dungeon that anyone can run in zerker gear even without paying much attention:

ac 1,2 and 3
cm 1,2 and 3
ta up and fw
se 1 and 3
cof 1 and 2
coe 1,2 and 3

I just listed around 75% of the dungeon paths available. Did you just notice that the huge majority of the pve takes no skill? Compare pve dungeons with wvw or spvp is a joke. Do you really think a boss programed to do always the same skill rotation is harder to fight than a real player?

I’ll give ya PVP, that’s chaotic and makes me stress becuase I’m not used to it yet, WvW though… naw, easy mode.

And, curious, do you range the dredge cart and glitch Turmaine? Also the amount of people I see eating attacks in COE is quite surprising if it’s such brain dead play. Not to mention the insta deaths at Malrona I see almost every time I run it.

And as it said often when claims like that are made, there is a tournament coming up soon, did you sign up for some free gold?

If you stay out of pvp in all aspects yeah it’s a pretty swell community. The reasoning for it is the lack of real progression. There isn’t any real progression, everything is just skins really. Sure you got exotics and legendary’s but lets face it, they’re not THAT much better. People don’t feel forced into some inane gear grind. So the community does whatever they want and get along.

naiasonod.9265:

serenke.4806:

The PvP-phobia in this thread is amazing. The community is not THAT toxic, but because of such threads it has come to the point where you think about using team chat twice since you could be labeled a “rager” for saying “please don’t go mid” or “don’t push far”…

Also, if that necro in your example was actually trying necro for the first time and they went to unranked immediately, i can see why people would tell them to go to hot join (or maybe some stronger words).

It’s quite toxic to join unranked/ranked with a class you don’t know how to play because you will be a dead weight for your team to carry.

Phobia implies fear. In my case, I fear PvP about as much as I fear a screaming toddler at the movie theater.

It’s a nuisance to me, and one that seems to do everything in its power to be unignorable as often as possible.

Not a thing more.

People mentioned that it went that far, that they are nervous pressing the queue button. There’s also a lot of comments mentioning to just stay out of pvp because that’s the root of all evil, so yeah i still claim that the PvP phobia is rampant in this thread. Perhaps not you of course, if you don’t fear the queue don’t feel included in this.

I’ve been around the dreadful place for years and whatever hopeful optimism for the PvP community is uttered here is, while not completely false, is pretty inaccurate. PvP community is incredibly toxic.

I play pretty regularly, definitely not casually, and spanning through many games that include arena like PvP: GW2 has some of the worst.

Granted, you will rarely see this if you play regularly or never speak at all. If you practiced a bit in PvE with your class, chances are you won’t be entirely terrible at it, and will be able to avoid a lot of negativity.

But how dare people try new or fun things in hotjoin! It’s hotjoin, for kittens sake. It’s not even unranked and people expect the greatest players that match their own skill level…

I tried out a troll condi thief, perma stealth, perma dodge roll build and despite being able to occupy 2-3 enemies to a single spot at a time for 4 minutes+ they still have the need to tell me I’m useless and a failure. That’s the kind of people I meet often in PvP. Just angry people. This causes them to stop playing and then blame others even more and it’s just toxic toxic toxic.

I don’t do ranked and unranked often, but from the times I do, there is always someone that needs to open their mouth and whine.

In many other games, people at least try to tell you what you are doing wrong or how to do something right. But here, that never happens when its class specific. “Try running P/D instead” or “what kind of build is that?” is often replaced by “lol so bad” and “cute, please keep trying”. It’s not like I’m trying to win, I’m just trying out random stuff and trying to have fun or I’m new. Btw, this is in hotjoin, where it shouldn’t even matter who’s winning.

Keep in mind: I never try to start anything, I never do random emotes (unless its a friend) I don’t do trolly

I could write a book with all the crap examples of this community yet can barely fill a page with any good stuff. The E-Sports scene is a joke, the community for the PvP side is worse than krait, and over the last two years I have only seen it get worse, rather slowly.

Yes, pretty much all competitive games have something like those kind of people. But in GW2, there’s way more people that only focus on trying to get on people’s nerves or have ultra jotun egos than I normally see.,

Edit: Also, those who say disabling your own chat, using block and what not, no, that tells me you don’t understand what caring about the community is about, because blocking people out is a selfish fix.

Also, those who say disabling your own chat, using block and what not, no, that tells me YOU don’t understand what caring about the community is about, because blocking people out is a selfish fix.

No.

They’re being pragmatic. You have three options really:

• Grow thicker skin and don’t let it bother you. Offense is taken, not given.
• Block the source of the unpleasant noise so you no longer have to hear it.
• Stick to your naive ideal principles while continuing to give power to words that have none.

Dave.2536:

Also, those who say disabling your own chat, using block and what not, no, that tells me YOU don’t understand what caring about the community is about, because blocking people out is a selfish fix.

No.

They’re being pragmatic. You have three options really:

• Grow thicker skin and don’t let it bother you. Offense is taken, not given.
• Block the source of the unpleasant noise so you no longer have to hear it.
• Stick to your naive ideal principles while continuing to give power to words that have none.

If you directed these options to me specifically you did not understand what I was saying.

The PvP community is toxic, and has been getting worse. That’s pretty much it: no solutions or trying to push ideals anywhere, just pulling out my experience with it all.

For some reason, I left out a huge part of that statement concerning added penalties and what not, and that they don’t understand that to care about the community, you need to stop caring about it so much and just have fun with what you got.

Yesterday some guy actually raged over Dragon Ball. It was funny as hell. And I reported.

Wethospu.6437:

xDudisx.5914:

Jerus.4350:

xDudisx.5914:

Harper.4173:

xDudisx.5914:

Open world pve is probably the best community. Followed by wvw. The 2 most toxic communities are spvp and dungeon.

Where skill and individual performance actually matter and you can’t just blob together with 109238129083 other players and be carried to victory by said numbers.

Pve is 90% about bring the right gear+comp and 1 or 2 dodges sometimes. Most dmg is bypassed with reflect+block+ kill the mob to fast before I die.

Even wvw require more skill because you are agaist a player not an npc that does the same skill rotation every time.

Have you ever gotten out of the AC/CoF1/SE1 rotation? I mean, if you do the easiest quick dungeons then, yeah…

Personally I’ve found the Open world PVE community far more insulting than the dungeon one, but of course that may just be because I see more of them so it gets spammed across my screen, where dungeons are generally one guy being a jerk and either I leave or someone else kicks him so… yeah.

Quick list of super easy dungeon that anyone can run in zerker gear even without paying much attention:

ac 1,2 and 3
cm 1,2 and 3
ta up and fw
se 1 and 3
cof 1 and 2
coe 1,2 and 3

I just listed around 75% of the dungeon paths available. Did you just notice that the huge majority of the pve takes no skill? Compare pve dungeons with wvw or spvp is a joke. Do you really think a boss programed to do always the same skill rotation is harder to fight than a real player?

Quick list of WvW maps that anyone can zerg in any gear without even looking at the screen:

All WvW maps

WvW and spvp are not a controled environment like pve dungeons. You don’t know what the enemy in the other side will do. Even if it is a zerg fight in wvw, you might have less players. The difficulty is harder than dungeons. Also below t2/t3 the zergs are not really big and you see a lot of small scale fights.

Also if you are considering any gear, almost all dungeons can be complete in any gear. People made videos of killing bosses naked. Now go try to fight any non kitten player naked.

Kuro Zetsumei.1397:

This is a thorough joke I hope? this community’s pvp side is more toxic then any I’ve ever seen before, save for a few perhaps.

Game after game I meet name callers, general cussers people who think they are absolutely magnificent and feel the need to rub that in everyone’s faces galore(those are the worst.)

PvE maybe!

PvP not by a long shot, the amount of times I’ve reported people should be so many by now I should ask Anet to pay me for it. No wonder Anet doesn’t support this side of the community, I wouldn’t have either.

sorry had to post this, the claim just amuses me to no end.

I strongly suggest to create a League of Legends account (its free) and play a bit. Come here a couple hours afterwards and share your experience. People do not even fathom what “toxic” means before entering the actual cess pool of the worst the internet has to offer. People in PvP will pick on you but its nothing in comparison to actual death wishes, harrasment and borderline disgust you meet over the hill.

xDudisx.5914:

Wethospu.6437:

xDudisx.5914:

Jerus.4350:

xDudisx.5914:

Harper.4173:

xDudisx.5914:

Open world pve is probably the best community. Followed by wvw. The 2 most toxic communities are spvp and dungeon.

Where skill and individual performance actually matter and you can’t just blob together with 109238129083 other players and be carried to victory by said numbers.

Pve is 90% about bring the right gear+comp and 1 or 2 dodges sometimes. Most dmg is bypassed with reflect+block+ kill the mob to fast before I die.

Even wvw require more skill because you are agaist a player not an npc that does the same skill rotation every time.

Have you ever gotten out of the AC/CoF1/SE1 rotation? I mean, if you do the easiest quick dungeons then, yeah…

Personally I’ve found the Open world PVE community far more insulting than the dungeon one, but of course that may just be because I see more of them so it gets spammed across my screen, where dungeons are generally one guy being a jerk and either I leave or someone else kicks him so… yeah.

Quick list of super easy dungeon that anyone can run in zerker gear even without paying much attention:

ac 1,2 and 3
cm 1,2 and 3
ta up and fw
se 1 and 3
cof 1 and 2
coe 1,2 and 3

I just listed around 75% of the dungeon paths available. Did you just notice that the huge majority of the pve takes no skill? Compare pve dungeons with wvw or spvp is a joke. Do you really think a boss programed to do always the same skill rotation is harder to fight than a real player?

Quick list of WvW maps that anyone can zerg in any gear without even looking at the screen:

All WvW maps

WvW and spvp are not a controled environment like pve dungeons. You don’t know what the enemy in the other side will do. Even if it is a zerg fight in wvw, you might have less players. The difficulty is harder than dungeons. Also below t2/t3 the zergs are not really big and you see a lot of small scale fights.

Also if you are considering any gear, almost all dungeons can be complete in any gear. People made videos of killing bosses naked. Now go try to fight any non kitten player naked.

WvW zerging is simply not hard at all… at least not for the zerg. The commander sure, lots of tactical decisions, everyone else, listen and do what the commander says, don’t put yourself in the wrong position, hell I don’t even have to use my dodge key most of the time and that’s running full zerk.

Your last comment is why I take all the WvW (and to a lesser extend PVP, because well, I’m a baddy there still) stuff to be highly exaggerated. Non kitten players aren’t exactly the majority of players, especially in WvW. I’ve gone running around and simply danced around zerg on zerg chewing up players and snatching up bags. The bads are plentiful, if you play well and defensively but seize your opportunities you can mop up half an enemy zerg just on picking off the bads that overextend.

I remember fighting zerg on zerg for what had to be close to an hour strait without any deaths in the core of our zerg (and pretty much the same for them honestly) while farming plenty of bags to make my wallet fat.

Point being, PVP content is highly dependent on the opponent if you want to talk difficulty. PVE it’s pretty static (playing with a bad team can make some things much more challenging, harder than soloing even). Personally I find a good challenge in PUGing Arah in no requirement groups. Even just 1 person trying to range lupi through the second and third phase makes it a much more entertaining fight for anyone meleeing.

Aomine.5012:

Did you notice you just prove my point right?
Make people care, and things will become toxic.
The reason you PVErs don’t behave in a toxic way in PVP is only because you guys don’t care about losing or winning in PVP, all you care is that daily reward.

There’s no such thing as “nice community” when you make people compete with each other.

Actually, no, I didn’t prove anything about your point. Us PvEers, as you so put it, very well do care about the result of a PvP win, if we’re there to PvP. The daily structure just so happens to put quite a few people who don’t care, and won’t bother communicating (so you won’t hear them upset), because those doing dailies just for daily’s sake want it in, out, and over. It sounds like you’re just bitter that the bad PvE choices for dailies are shoving unwilling players into PvP and mucking up the competition.

You cannot use two vastly different rewards to compare behaviors between two different game modes. It would be easier to compare a hypothetical situation where Tequatl is a 5-minute run that respawns every few minutes and every win and dropped dungeon tokens. Would there be a lot of qq-rage then? Probably not, because the progress is meaningless and the turnaround time is short.

I’m mostly pve and people is pretty much nice.
Only time I play pvp is when I do SW reward track for glove and found one of my team trash me to uninstall the game right naw…

But I brought it ._……

Overall though…this commu is the best one I ever join.

xDudisx.5914:

Wethospu.6437:

Quick list of WvW maps that anyone can zerg in any gear without even looking at the screen:

All WvW maps

WvW and spvp are not a controled environment like pve dungeons. You don’t know what the enemy in the other side will do. Even if it is a zerg fight in wvw, you might have less players. The difficulty is harder than dungeons. Also below t2/t3 the zergs are not really big and you see a lot of small scale fights.

Also if you are considering any gear, almost all dungeons can be complete in any gear. People made videos of killing bosses naked. Now go try to fight any non kitten player naked.

Could you define what you mean with controlled?

Most enemies will randomly choose their attacks so how do you know what they will do? Also how do you know what your teammates do?

I will counter your “the difficulty is harder than dungeons” argument with “the difficulty is easier than dungeons”.

If you really want to consider gear, every PvP fight can be won naked. Perhaps you should first make videos about doing dungeons naked. But I guess that at this point it’s pretty evident that you haven’t really done dungeons.

Wethospu.6437:

xDudisx.5914:

Wethospu.6437:

Quick list of WvW maps that anyone can zerg in any gear without even looking at the screen:

All WvW maps

WvW and spvp are not a controled environment like pve dungeons. You don’t know what the enemy in the other side will do. Even if it is a zerg fight in wvw, you might have less players. The difficulty is harder than dungeons. Also below t2/t3 the zergs are not really big and you see a lot of small scale fights.

Also if you are considering any gear, almost all dungeons can be complete in any gear. People made videos of killing bosses naked. Now go try to fight any non kitten player naked.

Could you define what you mean with controlled?

Most enemies will randomly choose their attacks so how do you know what they will do? Also how do you know what your teammates do?

I will counter your “the difficulty is harder than dungeons” argument with “the difficulty is easier than dungeons”.

If you really want to consider gear, every PvP fight can be won naked. Perhaps you should first make videos about doing dungeons naked. But I guess that at this point it’s pretty evident that you haven’t really done dungeons.

dungeon and bosses:

-Bosses dodn’t dodge
-Most of them don’t use boons
-Bosses won’t kite, will sit and take your melee dmg
-Bosses have a fixed set of skills. You don’t know 100% of the enemy build in wvw/spvp. there is some surprise effect there.
-You are always the one that start the fights, there is no risk of been jumped by the enemy. The player knows exactly what is gonna happen when it is gonna happen and where it is gonna happen.
-Npc’s animations normally are much longer than player ones.
-Pve follows always the same linear pattern.

There is no new thing. 100% controled. Always the same old mechanic.

spvp you are not without armor you are using the amulet with stats. Try to unequip the amulet and go with 0 extra stats and see what happens.
go try to duel in wvw with no armor and see what happens.

For what it’s worth, I’ve found ‘toxicity’ (I’m beginning to hate these SJW-esque buzzwords) in both PvP and PvE. People actively trolled the Queensdale champ train when that was a thing. There was constant bickering between the loot farmers and people who wanted to complete Scarlet’s invasions ‘by the book’. Even in Kessex Hills there’s events that some people want to beat, and others just want to farm. Whenever your individual success (however you choose to define that) depends on the actions of others, there’s potential for hostility.

And that’s why PvP seems so much more hostile. Not just competitiveness, but because it takes a team effort.

xDudisx.5914:

Wethospu.6437:

xDudisx.5914:

Wethospu.6437:

Quick list of WvW maps that anyone can zerg in any gear without even looking at the screen:

All WvW maps

WvW and spvp are not a controled environment like pve dungeons. You don’t know what the enemy in the other side will do. Even if it is a zerg fight in wvw, you might have less players. The difficulty is harder than dungeons. Also below t2/t3 the zergs are not really big and you see a lot of small scale fights.

Also if you are considering any gear, almost all dungeons can be complete in any gear. People made videos of killing bosses naked. Now go try to fight any non kitten player naked.

Could you define what you mean with controlled?

Most enemies will randomly choose their attacks so how do you know what they will do? Also how do you know what your teammates do?

I will counter your “the difficulty is harder than dungeons” argument with “the difficulty is easier than dungeons”.

If you really want to consider gear, every PvP fight can be won naked. Perhaps you should first make videos about doing dungeons naked. But I guess that at this point it’s pretty evident that you haven’t really done dungeons.

dungeon and bosses:

-Bosses dodn’t dodge
-Most of them don’t use boons
-Bosses won’t kite, will sit and take your melee dmg
-Bosses have a fixed set of skills. You don’t know 100% of the enemy build in wvw/spvp. there is some surprise effect there.
-You are always the one that start the fights, there is no risk of been jumped by the enemy. The player knows exactly what is gonna happen when it is gonna happen and where it is gonna happen.
-Npc’s animations normally are much longer than player ones.
-Pve follows always the same linear pattern.

There is no new thing. 100% controled. Always the same old mechanic.

spvp you are not without armor you are using the amulet with stats. Try to unequip the amulet and go with 0 extra stats and see what happens.
go try to duel in wvw with no armor and see what happens.

Most of those apply to WvW too.

Also I don’t think you know what 100% means.

Could it be because hardly anyone at Arena Net listens to sPvP and WvW players?
Could it be because of the stagnant meta and 6 month balance cycle?

Wethospu/Jerus, I think youre being cleverly trolled. Or I hope so.

Wethospu.6437:

xDudisx.5914:

Wethospu.6437:

xDudisx.5914:

Wethospu.6437:

Quick list of WvW maps that anyone can zerg in any gear without even looking at the screen:

All WvW maps

WvW and spvp are not a controled environment like pve dungeons. You don’t know what the enemy in the other side will do. Even if it is a zerg fight in wvw, you might have less players. The difficulty is harder than dungeons. Also below t2/t3 the zergs are not really big and you see a lot of small scale fights.

Also if you are considering any gear, almost all dungeons can be complete in any gear. People made videos of killing bosses naked. Now go try to fight any non kitten player naked.

Could you define what you mean with controlled?

Most enemies will randomly choose their attacks so how do you know what they will do? Also how do you know what your teammates do?

I will counter your “the difficulty is harder than dungeons” argument with “the difficulty is easier than dungeons”.

If you really want to consider gear, every PvP fight can be won naked. Perhaps you should first make videos about doing dungeons naked. But I guess that at this point it’s pretty evident that you haven’t really done dungeons.

dungeon and bosses:

-Bosses dodn’t dodge
-Most of them don’t use boons
-Bosses won’t kite, will sit and take your melee dmg
-Bosses have a fixed set of skills. You don’t know 100% of the enemy build in wvw/spvp. there is some surprise effect there.
-You are always the one that start the fights, there is no risk of been jumped by the enemy. The player knows exactly what is gonna happen when it is gonna happen and where it is gonna happen.
-Npc’s animations normally are much longer than player ones.
-Pve follows always the same linear pattern.

There is no new thing. 100% controled. Always the same old mechanic.

spvp you are not without armor you are using the amulet with stats. Try to unequip the amulet and go with 0 extra stats and see what happens.
go try to duel in wvw with no armor and see what happens.

Most of those apply to WvW too.

Also I don’t think you know what 100% means.

You are trying to compare a dumb npc with real players. In every game the pvp part is by far the hardest one. Take a look at fps games for example. Everyone is walking god in the campaing fighting npcs. Then you go to multiplayer and become just the average guy. Same for fighting games, mmos, etc.

Yes pve bosses skills 100% precitable. If you think the old, slow and dumb AI from old dungeons is better than players than you might just know trash tier players.

No, I’m comparing real npc with dumb players. Also I don’t think you know what random means.

DonQuack.9025:

Wethospu/Jerus, I think youre being cleverly trolled. Or I hope so.

I thought I was cleverly trolling here….

Aomine.5012:

Did you notice you just prove my point right?
Make people care, and things will become toxic.
The reason you PVErs don’t behave in a toxic way in PVP is only because you guys don’t care about losing or winning in PVP, all you care is that daily reward.

There’s no such thing as “nice community” when you make people compete with each other.

If this was true, then one would run into the same degree of hostility in WvW that exists in PvP. And that just isn’t the case. WvW is all about winning and losing, and flat out competition, yet people out there are not near as hostile as a lot of the people in pvp.

So I am really not sure what sort of point you’re trying to make with your last sentence.

WEXXES.2378:

Dave.2536:

Also, those who say disabling your own chat, using block and what not, no, that tells me YOU don’t understand what caring about the community is about, because blocking people out is a selfish fix.

No.

They’re being pragmatic. You have three options really:

• Grow thicker skin and don’t let it bother you. Offense is taken, not given.
• Block the source of the unpleasant noise so you no longer have to hear it.
• Stick to your naive ideal principles while continuing to give power to words that have none.

If you directed these options to me specifically you did not understand what I was saying.

The PvP community is toxic, and has been getting worse. That’s pretty much it: no solutions or trying to push ideals anywhere, just pulling out my experience with it all.

For some reason, I left out a huge part of that statement concerning added penalties and what not, and that they don’t understand that to care about the community, you need to stop caring about it so much and just have fun with what you got.

I actually had no issue with your post until that last bit that started lashing back at people offering you realistic solutions on what you could do, given that you had already seemed to give power to those words that didn’t have any.

People also need to be able to distinguish between “stop being useless” and “go die in a fire while your dog gets cancer”. While you may allow your feelings to get hurt by both, only one of them would be considered actionable.

Dave.2536:

WEXXES.2378:

Dave.2536:

Also, those who say disabling your own chat, using block and what not, no, that tells me YOU don’t understand what caring about the community is about, because blocking people out is a selfish fix.

No.

They’re being pragmatic. You have three options really:

• Grow thicker skin and don’t let it bother you. Offense is taken, not given.
• Block the source of the unpleasant noise so you no longer have to hear it.
• Stick to your naive ideal principles while continuing to give power to words that have none.

If you directed these options to me specifically you did not understand what I was saying.

The PvP community is toxic, and has been getting worse. That’s pretty much it: no solutions or trying to push ideals anywhere, just pulling out my experience with it all.

For some reason, I left out a huge part of that statement concerning added penalties and what not, and that they don’t understand that to care about the community, you need to stop caring about it so much and just have fun with what you got.

I actually had no issue with your post until that last bit that started lashing back at people offering you realistic solutions on what you could do, given that you had already seemed to give power to those words that didn’t have any.

People also need to be able to distinguish between “stop being useless” and “go die in a fire while your dog gets cancer”. While you may allow your feelings to get hurt by both, only one of them would be considered actionable.

Edit: Nevermind, just understand that the last part was basically saying “Do what you can with what is given to you, and stop caring so much and it’ll be better”.

You can tell who is part of the solution, and who is part of the problem from the responses in this thread alone.

Thank you ArenaNet for block.

WEXXES.2378:

Dave.2536:

WEXXES.2378:

Dave.2536:

Also, those who say disabling your own chat, using block and what not, no, that tells me YOU don’t understand what caring about the community is about, because blocking people out is a selfish fix.

No.

They’re being pragmatic. You have three options really:

• Grow thicker skin and don’t let it bother you. Offense is taken, not given.
• Block the source of the unpleasant noise so you no longer have to hear it.
• Stick to your naive ideal principles while continuing to give power to words that have none.

If you directed these options to me specifically you did not understand what I was saying.

The PvP community is toxic, and has been getting worse. That’s pretty much it: no solutions or trying to push ideals anywhere, just pulling out my experience with it all.

For some reason, I left out a huge part of that statement concerning added penalties and what not, and that they don’t understand that to care about the community, you need to stop caring about it so much and just have fun with what you got.

I actually had no issue with your post until that last bit that started lashing back at people offering you realistic solutions on what you could do, given that you had already seemed to give power to those words that didn’t have any.

People also need to be able to distinguish between “stop being useless” and “go die in a fire while your dog gets cancer”. While you may allow your feelings to get hurt by both, only one of them would be considered actionable.

How is that lashing out?

I’m just going to say yes.

Let me requote the relevant bit for everyone else to see. Even if you refuse to see it as lashing out, I’m sure others here will disagree.

Also, those who say disabling your own chat, using block and what not, no, that tells me YOU don’t understand what caring about the community is about, because blocking people out is a selfish fix.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

You can tell who is part of the solution, and who is part of the problem from the responses in this thread alone.

Thank you ArenaNet for block.

The ones I agree with are part of the solution, and the ones I disagree with are part of the problem.

Am I doing it right?

Teon.5168:

Aomine.5012:

Did you notice you just prove my point right?
Make people care, and things will become toxic.
The reason you PVErs don’t behave in a toxic way in PVP is only because you guys don’t care about losing or winning in PVP, all you care is that daily reward.

There’s no such thing as “nice community” when you make people compete with each other.

If this was true, then one would run into the same degree of hostility in WvW that exists in PvP. And that just isn’t the case. WvW is all about winning and losing, and flat out competition, yet people out there are not near as hostile as a lot of the people in pvp.

So I am really not sure what sort of point you’re trying to make with your last sentence.

Actually WvW is another example that proves my point.

Normally people DONT CARE about winning in WvW because there’s literally ZERO reward for winning. But then, you see, when Season tournaments come into play, the true toxicity of the community reveals.

Remember in Season 2 when BG is actually losing, how much flame and toxicity, how much rage posts coming from the BG side? It’s not just BG, many servers trash talk each other. In fact, they trash talk each other too much to the degree that Anet has to remove the match-up sub forum entirely from the official site.

Like I said, reason that some people don’t rage about losing is only because they don’t care. People who rage about losing is because they care too much.

As soon as someone uses the word “toxic” to mean “rude” or “hostile” I can’t take what they say seriously.

Wethospu.6437:

No, I’m comparing real npc with dumb players. Also I don’t think you know what random means.

DonQuack.9025:

Wethospu/Jerus, I think youre being cleverly trolled. Or I hope so.

I thought I was cleverly trolling here….

Yes you said “Quick list of WvW maps that anyone can zerg in any gear without even looking at the screen:
All WvW maps”

Trying to push the idea that pvp in this game is at the same braindead lvl as pve.

I think you are the one that either does not know the meaning of words or is just trolling around.

The dungeons follow always the same route. After you chose the path you from A to B to C, etc… It is always the same. The same mobs will spawn in the same place. You complete always the same event. The same bosses, which will use the same skills.

The only 2 things that are not always the same are some optional evens like cave troll in ac and the aggro system. The rest is always the same. Try to put wvw at the same lvl as pve is insulting wvw.

xDudisx.5914:

Wethospu.6437:

No, I’m comparing real npc with dumb players. Also I don’t think you know what random means.

DonQuack.9025:

Wethospu/Jerus, I think youre being cleverly trolled. Or I hope so.

I thought I was cleverly trolling here….

Yes you said “Quick list of WvW maps that anyone can zerg in any gear without even looking at the screen:
All WvW maps”

Trying to push the idea that pvp in this game is at the same braindead lvl as pve.

I think you are the one that either does not know the meaning of words or is just trolling around.

The dungeons follow always the same route. After you chose the path you from A to B to C, etc… It is always the same. The same mobs will spawn in the same place. You complete always the same event. The same bosses, which will use the same skills.

The only 2 things that are not always the same are some optional evens like cave troll in ac and the aggro system. The rest is always the same. Try to put wvw at the same lvl as pve is insulting wvw.

Maybe if ANet mixed up WvW a bit (ok, to be fair we get new maps in the expansion right?) it’d be a bit more interesting. But at this point, I see campX flip. I know there are people there, I see towerY flip, ok they did that quickly probably people there. Get near, ohh a lag spike, there’s a lot of people here. Yup, there are, yay bags.

I’m not in any way trying to insult WvW, I simply don’t feel it’s in any way more challenging than many PVE encounters.

A zerg on zerg almost always starts the same way. Fake push to bait scrubs, both teams clear out their weak links in that initial encounter. Back up, regroup, maybe circle a bit, likely toss a vail and then either attack or have it be another fake push.

It’s pretty methodical. Every once in a while people will do some portal tricks. Maybe call in some backup to assjam the other team, or maybe just the third team comes in and does it on their own. Either way, it’s a methodical, but fun, gameplay. My only complaint about WvW ever has really just been the unreliability of actually getting fun engagements. No one likes when there is either no force on the map or one you literally run over, that’s not entertaining. And the opposite is true, it’s not fun when your team is outnumbered so badly that you can’t even put together more than 10-15 people against a team of 60+, there’s only so much you can do with that in an unorganized pug situation (I’ve seen some guilds take on those odds with surprising success, but those were well organized guild groups vs a pugmander and his army of bags)

Much love for WvW, I had a lot of fun, but after I quit the game for a couple months when I came back I just couldn’t get back into it, it’s too slow for me personally, lots of running yaks to build up waypoints and well… that’s only fun for the first half hour then it’s just like “god, please come and attack us”.

xDudisx.5914:

Wethospu.6437:

No, I’m comparing real npc with dumb players. Also I don’t think you know what random means.

DonQuack.9025:

Wethospu/Jerus, I think youre being cleverly trolled. Or I hope so.

I thought I was cleverly trolling here….

Yes you said “Quick list of WvW maps that anyone can zerg in any gear without even looking at the screen:
All WvW maps”

Trying to push the idea that pvp in this game is at the same braindead lvl as pve.

I think you are the one that either does not know the meaning of words or is just trolling around.

The dungeons follow always the same route. After you chose the path you from A to B to C, etc… It is always the same. The same mobs will spawn in the same place. You complete always the same event. The same bosses, which will use the same skills.

The only 2 things that are not always the same are some optional evens like cave troll in ac and the aggro system. The rest is always the same. Try to put wvw at the same lvl as pve is insulting wvw.

WvW is not PvP.

So in dungeons there are always the same route and stuff but sometimes something else? Also you always play with same people?

Wahaha.7938:

As soon as someone uses the word “toxic” to mean “rude” or “hostile” I can’t take what they say seriously.

What word would work for you?

Wahaha.7938:

As soon as someone uses the word “toxic” to mean “rude” or “hostile” I can’t take what they say seriously.

As soon as someone arbitrarily dismisses an entire argument based on one word that has legitimate contextual meaning that is accurately projected and understood, I can’t take what they say seriously.

Aomine.5012:

Teon.5168:

Aomine.5012:

Did you notice you just prove my point right?
Make people care, and things will become toxic.
The reason you PVErs don’t behave in a toxic way in PVP is only because you guys don’t care about losing or winning in PVP, all you care is that daily reward.

There’s no such thing as “nice community” when you make people compete with each other.

If this was true, then one would run into the same degree of hostility in WvW that exists in PvP. And that just isn’t the case. WvW is all about winning and losing, and flat out competition, yet people out there are not near as hostile as a lot of the people in pvp.

So I am really not sure what sort of point you’re trying to make with your last sentence.

Actually WvW is another example that proves my point.

Normally people DONT CARE about winning in WvW because there’s literally ZERO reward for winning. But then, you see, when Season tournaments come into play, the true toxicity of the community reveals.

Remember in Season 2 when BG is actually losing, how much flame and toxicity, how much rage posts coming from the BG side? It’s not just BG, many servers trash talk each other. In fact, they trash talk each other too much to the degree that Anet has to remove the match-up sub forum entirely from the official site.

Like I said, reason that some people don’t rage about losing is only because they don’t care. People who rage about losing is because they care too much.

You have some truly odd opinions about this game and the people that play it, imo. Not sure what you’re playing, but it most certainly is not the same game I am playing.

Obviously, I have some very, very different opinions than you about this game and the people that play it. Probably has something to do with the players I run with, and the parts of the game I deem to be entertaining or parts that I and the others I play with “care” about.

/shrug

Teon.5168:

Aomine.5012:

Teon.5168:

Aomine.5012:

Did you notice you just prove my point right?
Make people care, and things will become toxic.
The reason you PVErs don’t behave in a toxic way in PVP is only because you guys don’t care about losing or winning in PVP, all you care is that daily reward.

There’s no such thing as “nice community” when you make people compete with each other.

If this was true, then one would run into the same degree of hostility in WvW that exists in PvP. And that just isn’t the case. WvW is all about winning and losing, and flat out competition, yet people out there are not near as hostile as a lot of the people in pvp.

So I am really not sure what sort of point you’re trying to make with your last sentence.

Actually WvW is another example that proves my point.

Normally people DONT CARE about winning in WvW because there’s literally ZERO reward for winning. But then, you see, when Season tournaments come into play, the true toxicity of the community reveals.

Remember in Season 2 when BG is actually losing, how much flame and toxicity, how much rage posts coming from the BG side? It’s not just BG, many servers trash talk each other. In fact, they trash talk each other too much to the degree that Anet has to remove the match-up sub forum entirely from the official site.

Like I said, reason that some people don’t rage about losing is only because they don’t care. People who rage about losing is because they care too much.

You have some truly bizarre opinions about this game and the people that play it. Not sure what you’re playing, but it most certainly is not the same game I am playing. It is like you’re just making stuff up when someone happens to disagree with you.

/shrug

This is NOT my opinion, it is true historical facts happened in WvW.
If you don’t know about it, you should go search for a little more detail.

True competition does not need nice community, they want the feeling of winning and rewarding. That’s exactly why in PVP people are being a little more hostile toward one another, and it is a very common thing.

This type of issue is not exclusive to GW2, it exists across all types of competitive games. (ESPECIALLY those games who’re focusing on Esport, such as LoL)

My main point is, stop criticizing GW2 pvp community as to “meanest community”, or falsely idolize GW2 pve community as to “nicest community”.
Human nature are all the same.

Aomine.5012:

Teon.5168:

Aomine.5012:

Teon.5168:

Aomine.5012:

Did you notice you just prove my point right?
Make people care, and things will become toxic.
The reason you PVErs don’t behave in a toxic way in PVP is only because you guys don’t care about losing or winning in PVP, all you care is that daily reward.

There’s no such thing as “nice community” when you make people compete with each other.

If this was true, then one would run into the same degree of hostility in WvW that exists in PvP. And that just isn’t the case. WvW is all about winning and losing, and flat out competition, yet people out there are not near as hostile as a lot of the people in pvp.

So I am really not sure what sort of point you’re trying to make with your last sentence.

Actually WvW is another example that proves my point.

Normally people DONT CARE about winning in WvW because there’s literally ZERO reward for winning. But then, you see, when Season tournaments come into play, the true toxicity of the community reveals.

Remember in Season 2 when BG is actually losing, how much flame and toxicity, how much rage posts coming from the BG side? It’s not just BG, many servers trash talk each other. In fact, they trash talk each other too much to the degree that Anet has to remove the match-up sub forum entirely from the official site.

Like I said, reason that some people don’t rage about losing is only because they don’t care. People who rage about losing is because they care too much.

You have some truly bizarre opinions about this game and the people that play it. Not sure what you’re playing, but it most certainly is not the same game I am playing. It is like you’re just making stuff up when someone happens to disagree with you.

/shrug

This is NOT my opinion, it is true historical facts happened in WvW.
If you don’t know about it, you should go search for a little more detail.

True competition does not need nice community, they want the feeling of winning and rewarding. That’s exactly why in PVP people are being a little more hostile toward one another, and it is a very common thing.

This type of issue is not exclusive to GW2, it exists across all types of competitive games. (ESPECIALLY those games who’re focusing on Esport, such as LoL)

My main point is, stop criticizing GW2 pvp community as to “meanest community”, or falsely idolize GW2 pve community as to “nicest community”.
Human nature are all the same.

Now you’re starting to put words in my mouth.

There is really no point in discussing this with you, as you are so completely certain that your viewpoint is the only correct one out there on this subject.

My views of this game, and the many other mmorpgs and their playerbases out there that I have played over the last couple decades are entirely different than yours.

It is as simple as that.

Have a nice day.

Teon.5168:

Aomine.5012:

Teon.5168:

Aomine.5012:

Teon.5168:

Aomine.5012:

Did you notice you just prove my point right?
Make people care, and things will become toxic.
The reason you PVErs don’t behave in a toxic way in PVP is only because you guys don’t care about losing or winning in PVP, all you care is that daily reward.

There’s no such thing as “nice community” when you make people compete with each other.

If this was true, then one would run into the same degree of hostility in WvW that exists in PvP. And that just isn’t the case. WvW is all about winning and losing, and flat out competition, yet people out there are not near as hostile as a lot of the people in pvp.

So I am really not sure what sort of point you’re trying to make with your last sentence.

Actually WvW is another example that proves my point.

Normally people DONT CARE about winning in WvW because there’s literally ZERO reward for winning. But then, you see, when Season tournaments come into play, the true toxicity of the community reveals.

Remember in Season 2 when BG is actually losing, how much flame and toxicity, how much rage posts coming from the BG side? It’s not just BG, many servers trash talk each other. In fact, they trash talk each other too much to the degree that Anet has to remove the match-up sub forum entirely from the official site.

Like I said, reason that some people don’t rage about losing is only because they don’t care. People who rage about losing is because they care too much.

You have some truly bizarre opinions about this game and the people that play it. Not sure what you’re playing, but it most certainly is not the same game I am playing. It is like you’re just making stuff up when someone happens to disagree with you.

/shrug

This is NOT my opinion, it is true historical facts happened in WvW.
If you don’t know about it, you should go search for a little more detail.

True competition does not need nice community, they want the feeling of winning and rewarding. That’s exactly why in PVP people are being a little more hostile toward one another, and it is a very common thing.

This type of issue is not exclusive to GW2, it exists across all types of competitive games. (ESPECIALLY those games who’re focusing on Esport, such as LoL)

My main point is, stop criticizing GW2 pvp community as to “meanest community”, or falsely idolize GW2 pve community as to “nicest community”.
Human nature are all the same.

Now you’re starting to put words in my mouth.

There is really no point in discussing this with you, as you are so completely certain that your viewpoint is the only correct one out there on this subject.

My views of this game, and the many other mmorpgs and their playerbases out there that I have played over the last couple decades are entirely different than yours.

It is as simple as that.

Have a nice day.

Well, you are the one whom responded to my post. My original post is responding toward another post who’s claiming PVE community is much nicer than PVP community, which is really not the case. Back in PVE I become my rational self again while doing normal events, just that I care more about winning in PVP, while some PVEr don’t.

My view point always stay the same, just that different people may respond to me for a different argument that I originally do not respond to.

Added note: If you want to prove your point, you have to back up with some evidence instead of dismissing it and think talking to you is pointless. I already gave example of PVErs turning aggressive when a meta event that’s very rewarding fails, or WvWers turn aggressive during Season Tournament, to prove that human nature are identical and there’s no side which is “nicer” than others.

Funny thing is they keep trying to draw PvE only Players into trying PvP so much they’ve had to add a whole section on the POI cast just for that, Imagine how irrate the PvP community would be if they added section at the end of the ready ups explaining anything about PvE (even if it was just a devs explaining balance changes that would have major effects on the mode even if the changes was generally pvp driven)

Playing other games for a while is the best way to appreciate how nice the GW2 community actually is.

In the pvp lobby today the Twitch Stream was being discussed and one player said “if you don’t like it go play WoW” which I personally despise as if everyone did who had an issue with GW2, the game would be in trouble, so I whispered to him (I assume). We had an interesting conversation over several minutes in which I explained why I dislike that phrase and she (to be fair since I didn’t bother to inquire about gender) and I talked about the state of the game, changes we’d like, and generally agreed on many issues and then thanked each other for the convo.

After a ranked pvp match in which my pug was dominated by the other team I suggested to one of my team that he (or she) practice in unranked as the player finished with zero points. The player whispered me and we had a rather long convo about how much that statement hurt his or her feelings as they weren’t a new player and simply had a bad match. I apologized for my statement and offered to Que up for a few matches.

Guild Wars 2 as a whole is a wonderful community of players but if you run into someone who says or does something you disagree with, talk to them. Some people are morons and those you block.