Guild Wars 2

People don’t know what they want. Most the time they are fickle and wont even decide, then get mad at whatever is given to them.

Thank you OP. You summarized everything that even related to my thoughts on the matter.

Can I +1 this two or three times?

I agree with you that the amount of whine is uncalled for, it’s a pretty sweet item and working for is by no means as impossible as they put it out to be.

However the only problem I have with your statement is that Endless Bat-wing brew will go down in price, that’s an absolute fallacy, it has nowhere else to go but up.

And I’m fairly certain it will reach ridiculous levels over the next 10-ish months, only to slightly drop off for next halloween (assuming it will be available then) and then go back to ramp up.

@Numri; we have known Batwing was required for Nightfury for over a week, and the price inflated at this discovery to settle in the 70-100 gold range. Right now they have spiked about 400%, much like Linseed Oil has. Because they are not as easily got as Linseed Oil, their price will take some time to drop down comparatively, but before too long all the people who MUST HAVE NIGHTFURY RIGHT THIS SECOND will have bought theirs, and the price will normalize again. Probably a bit higher than your average endless tonic, which would put them in the 90-120 gold range. There is no shortage of ToT Bags in the world, which means there will be no shortage of new tonics being added to the economy.

Endless Batwing Brew is the ONLY item hidden behind pure RNG, and even the price of those will drop before long.

Drop before long? You realize Halloween will be over in a week, and then the item from which this is an RNG drop will be further limited, thus further limiting it’s supply. Granted, we can still maize balm farm, but that took one hell of a nerf at the start of this holiday event. So how does limited supply equate to prices going down anytime soon exactly? I think you might be underestimating the demand for this item just a tad.

Still beyond all that….been farming for this item since 2012…. thousands of bags opened…. 0 endless brews. And you wonder why some of us are peeved?

There is also a thing called “Opportunity Cost”.

True, one does not need to spend 3,000 gold buying materials from the trading post to ‘craft’ it if they acquire all of the needed items manually.

However, all of those manually acquired materials are still worth the equivalent to 3,000 gold if they were to be sold. So, in essence, the ‘crafter’ is still spending 3,000 gold to ‘craft’ the item by exchanging these manually acquired items that are worth 3,000 gold for the Night Fury item.

Then there is also value of the time needed to manually acquire all of these items worth 3,000 gold which is more ambiguously valued.

AndyJo.8794:

@Numri; we have known Batwing was required for Nightfury for over a week, and the price inflated at this discovery to settle in the 70-100 gold range. Right now they have spiked about 400%, much like Linseed Oil has. Because they are not as easily got as Linseed Oil, their price will take some time to drop down comparatively, but before too long all the people who MUST HAVE NIGHTFURY RIGHT THIS SECOND will have bought theirs, and the price will normalize again. Probably a bit higher than your average endless tonic, which would put them in the 90-120 gold range. There is no shortage of ToT Bags in the world, which means there will be no shortage of new tonics being added to the economy.

Linseed Oil spiking is natural as it’s needed for a lot of new content, I have no doubt that this will settle in somewhere along the levels of T6 mats before long.

The tonic spiking after the full discovery is really not surprising to anyone as it means that people can make an active decision if they want/can make that investment instead of buying it early and then “maybe” needing another 5k gold to finish the rest.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see it settle at around 90-120g, but I don’t believe that will be the case. Have a look at the documented mass-openings of ToT-bags. If you google “Gw2 open 10000 Trick-or-treat bags” you’ll find a couple of post, neither of the posts record a single endless brew being looted.

Perhaps it was considered “trash” back then and not included, however some of them are pretty detailed.

The rarity in conjunction with the availability is what leads me to believe that your statement is wrong.

Bravo OP.

It’s not hard to get with effort. Those that are complaining about this are just being lazy and entitled. Heck, I’d even be ok with Anet adding the tonic to the cob vendor (100 cobs sounds about right). The point is…..put the effort in!!!

Firebaall.5127:

Bravo OP.

It’s not hard to get with effort. Those that are complaining about this are just being lazy and entitled. Heck, I’d even be ok with Anet adding the tonic to the cob vendor (100 cobs sounds about right). The point is…..put the effort in!!!

And some of us don’t mind the effort. Like I said, I’ve been trying for that stupid potion since 2012. Obviously it wasn’t necessary for anything at that time, just wanted it for my collection. Been farming for hours, including maize balm farming in the off season when that became an option. Been farming pretty much every night that I could be on since Halloween started this year. Guess who still hasn’t got one as a drop? Had the same kitten issue with Gwyn last year, at least this year I can farm100k candy corn for her (still working on that).

The rng might be just a tad much.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Firebaall.5127:

Bravo OP.

It’s not hard to get with effort. Those that are complaining about this are just being lazy and entitled. Heck, I’d even be ok with Anet adding the tonic to the cob vendor (100 cobs sounds about right). The point is…..put the effort in!!!

And some of us don’t mind the effort. Like I said, I’ve been trying for that stupid potion since 2012. Obviously it wasn’t necessary for anything at that time, just wanted it for my collection. Been farming for hours, including maize balm farming in the off season when that became an option. Been farming pretty much every night that I could be on since Halloween started this year. Guess who still hasn’t got one as a drop? Had the same kitten issue with Gwyn last year, at least this year I can farm100k candy corn for her (still working on that).

The rng might be just a tad much.

This, you’re right, everything else can be farmed over the course of a few months… but the tonic is something that will remain extremely high priced because of a) it’s drop rate is absurdly low and b) it now has worth towards a desirable item.

Easy fix would be to implement the recipe for crafting the tonic that was in the patch notes last Halloween but never got activated.

I logged in just to +1 this post. Well said.

NightShadow.1429:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Firebaall.5127:

Bravo OP.

It’s not hard to get with effort. Those that are complaining about this are just being lazy and entitled. Heck, I’d even be ok with Anet adding the tonic to the cob vendor (100 cobs sounds about right). The point is…..put the effort in!!!

And some of us don’t mind the effort. Like I said, I’ve been trying for that stupid potion since 2012. Obviously it wasn’t necessary for anything at that time, just wanted it for my collection. Been farming for hours, including maize balm farming in the off season when that became an option. Been farming pretty much every night that I could be on since Halloween started this year. Guess who still hasn’t got one as a drop? Had the same kitten issue with Gwyn last year, at least this year I can farm100k candy corn for her (still working on that).

The rng might be just a tad much.

This, you’re right, everything else can be farmed over the course of a few months… but the tonic is something that will remain extremely high priced because of a) it’s drop rate is absurdly low and b) it now has worth towards a desirable item.

Easy fix would be to implement the recipe for crafting the tonic that was in the patch notes last Halloween but never got activated.

Crafting recipe
Purchased for cobs
Up the drop rate
Hell, make it a collection reward (account bound)

Or any combination of the above would be nice. Don’t mind ‘earning’ it, or working towards it, but there really should be some alternative to rng that isn’t “just purchase it with gold”

opportunity costs…

whether you spend the gold from your wallet or farmed every single material needed to craft an item, you’re out 3,000 gold.

in fact, the former is probably better because you could maximize your earning potential and collect 3,000 gold faster than farming every material.

Firebaall.5127:

Bravo OP.

It’s not hard to get with effort. Those that are complaining about this are just being lazy and entitled. Heck, I’d even be ok with Anet adding the tonic to the cob vendor (100 cobs sounds about right). The point is…..put the effort in!!!

One should note then, that alot of people are just outraged over the price of this, they are more than willing to put in the time,they just cant afford it.

AndyJo.8794:

Nightfury; Blessed Shoulderguard of the Swagseeker. It doesn’t cost 3,000 gold. It doesnt even cost 500 gold. They said you’d have to work for it, and they’re right. There’s a LOT of complaining on these forums that the ONLY way to gt this item is behind a massive gold wall, which is just nonsense. You can get every single item required to make this item on your own, without ever touching the Trading Post. Some of you just don’t want to, so you blame Arena Net for doing exactly what they said they were going to do: Make a very cool item that requires a lot of work to get for those who want it. If that level of work makes you not want it; dont get it!

Linseed Oil refines from Flax. You can get, pretty easily, 100 flax a day within about 5 minutes, much more if you actively run around and gather it instead of just porting to farms. That’s 5 linseed a day, for zero effort and zero gold. Is that a long farm? Yup! Did they say it would be? Yup! It’s almost as if the price of materials on the trading post are driven by direct supply and demand of items or something; pretty wild concept, right?

Endless Batwing Brew is the ONLY item hidden behind pure RNG, and even the price of those will drop before long.

Tattered bat wings are easily obtainable by running the Mad Thorn dungeon.

Glacial Lodestones drop in several dungeons, from many mobs, and the Cores drop from many more mobs around the world.

Onyx Lodestones are the same as above. Run Twilight Arbor, seriously.

Pristine Spore Samples are, much like Linseed oil, entirely farmable on a daily basis.

The Gift of Ascalon is – you already know it – a dungeon reward for tokens.

Glass is obtainable by doing Silverwaste trains, like half the game already does. Get silky sand, get course sand, go make glass.

Mystic Coins are timegated – you will get all 250 entirely free over time

I have never heard of someone saying they had too little Bloodstone Dust

Powerful Blood is farmable from high level mobs, and can be promoted to using t5 bloods

Orichalicum has been farmable for ages; anyone who has ever had to make the Gift of Metal can tell you that Ori running through Orr is quite a thing.

Which brings us to the leather; I don’t actually know a good, solid way of reliably farming leather of that level, but its also never been expensive. The good money is that, by the time you actually need this, the rest of these activities have gotten you more than enough gold as a side-effect to buy a stack of leather.

Congrats, you have now obtained the skin Nightfury for the low low costs of… playing the game. It’s probably June, right about now, but you did it! Enjoy being one of the few people in the game to put the effort into what can be considered the first legendary shoulder item in the game.

“Endless Batwing Brew is the ONLY item hidden behind pure RNG, and even the price of those will drop before long.”

^While I agree with your post, this is a big glaring issue. They should have taken the RNG out of the equation altogether. It’s precisely what reasonable people didn’t want to have with precursors. Why would they want it in their holiday items? Also, this is a festival item. It shouldn’t require things from HoT. It should be available to all to gather .

Or you could sell all that crap and have 4000 gold instead of a bat animation.

I agree, by and large, with just about everything you said, the only thing I can really point out is the batwing brew, it IS 280 or so gold and looking to get one as a drop is, like expecting to get a precursor drop, in the next week…. not going to happen.

Gold and valuable loot from dungeons and fractals has been nerfed to the floor, maize bomb farming has been castrated and supposedly gold accumulation has taken about a 66% nerf across the board.

Gold is not going to be as easy to farm as it was before the expansion was released so for someone new to the the game, 300 gold is a significant money wall, as is the ~100 gold for the batwings, both of which will be going UP it price after Halloween concludes, not down… the only source for these items disappears in about a week, suggesting that they will become less valuable is ludicrous.

So it is what it is, but you are the one that started out saying FREE, free is NOT happening.

Sure you can eventually farm everything else required, I wouldn’t call getting the tattered batwings from Ascent to Madness easy though, as I have run that at least 40 or 50 times and have yet to get a single one. I have decent RNG, I have had precursor drops in the wild, and gotten them from the forge, I have about a +300 base magic find and was running birthday booster, magic find food, magic find utility so on and so forth so above average RNG with about +500 MF in buffs, 40-50 runs and not a single tattered batwing.

Saying they are easily farmed is quite a stretch, and a misleading one.

While I agree that this item is achievable by those dedicated enough to pursue it, suggesting that is can be 100% farmed is simply untrue.

Are the costs associated with this item exorbitant?

The answer to that is relative to the person being asked.. for me, a shoulder piece that has no physical skin, has a hardcoded stats and requires resources in amounts similar to a legendary weapon.. is NOT worth the cost in terms of time, effort and resources.

Others will feel differently I’m sure.

So yeah if you want to put in the effort then, like everything else, Night Fury is achievable, but certainly not “free” and 99.9% of the time not without a rather significant gold investment.

Firebaall’s suggestion of of putting the tonic on the Halloween vendor for 100 Candy Corn Cobs or so is an excellent idea, and would go a long way towards making the journey to craft it more about effort and less about overcoming a gold requirement hurdle.

Everyone has an opinion and is certainly entitled to it, but, let’s try and keep the rants based in reality, thanks.

By the OPs logic I shouldn’t buy food at a store, I should just become a farmer and grow my own so I can get “free” food.

OP is so blind it gives me headache. The Endless Bottle of Batwing Brew will INCREASE in price as time goes on. It’s the most annoying item they locked behind a huge RNG wall. I get the others, but this single item is just stupid. If only you could forge it, but no, it’s the same scheme as a precursor weapon: a single item locked behind a ridiculous RNG or hundreds of gold (which will increase even more over time). I’m fine grinding my life for all the other items, but this one is just inexcusable…

Blix.8021:

By the OPs logic I shouldn’t buy food at a store, I should just become a farmer and grow my own so I can get “free” food.

The OP doesnt understand opportunity cost whether you buy or farm the mats its still 3,000 gold. Peoples problems lie with the fact that the tonic is RNG locked and bound to increase in price when the event ends, personally ive been farming tattered wings just so I can take advantage of the higher price point it will inevitably hit as supply becomes more limited.

There is also that matter that a “Festive” skin req. HoT items and has the price point of a legendary. I think many were expecting a collection type deal (reminiscent of Mad Memories) but we got more long-term rewards for a limited time event :/

They should just change it to legendary level instead of ascended. Then, and only then, could I justify the cost maybe.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

They should just change it to legendary level instead of ascended. Then, and only then, could I justify the cost maybe.

Thats about the only way it would be proper to justify the cost, at least then it would allow you to change stats on the fly!

Firebaall.5127:

The point is…..put the effort in!!!

So…….just keep praying to RNGesus for the endless brew?

As others have pointed out… opportunity costs.
By your logic everything in the real world is “free” as well. Everything from candy bars to private islands. They are all free!!!!!!

I think the RNG prevents this item from being overused to the point where it isn’t unique anymore. This is a fairly flashy item. Even if the other mats take a while, people will find a way to shorten that time if there is no RNG. Just look at legendary greatswords. They are legendaries, and still they are seen quite commonly.

I wouldn’t want Nightfury to be something seen as commonly as those greatswords are. Would kind of ruin the feeling of awesomeness when you see someone with it.

Dante.1763:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

They should just change it to legendary level instead of ascended. Then, and only then, could I justify the cost maybe.

Thats about the only way it would be proper to justify the cost, at least then it would allow you to change stats on the fly!

That was my general line of thought as well. Given that price tag, it puts it on par with legendary weapons.

SeriousSituation.3462:

I think the RNG prevents this item from being overused to the point where it isn’t unique anymore. This is a fairly flashy item. Even if the other mats take a while, people will find a way to shorten that time if there is no RNG. Just look at legendary greatswords. They are legendaries, and still they are seen quite commonly.

I wouldn’t want Nightfury to be something seen as commonly as those greatswords are. Would kind of ruin the feeling of awesomeness when you see someone with it.

Is mad memories common? No, people wear off the shiny effect of new things as time goes on. That’s a gross generalization my friend

Kill.3458:

SeriousSituation.3462:

I think the RNG prevents this item from being overused to the point where it isn’t unique anymore. This is a fairly flashy item. Even if the other mats take a while, people will find a way to shorten that time if there is no RNG. Just look at legendary greatswords. They are legendaries, and still they are seen quite commonly.

I wouldn’t want Nightfury to be something seen as commonly as those greatswords are. Would kind of ruin the feeling of awesomeness when you see someone with it.

Is mad memories common? No, people wear off the shiny effect of new things as time goes on. That’s a gross generalization my friend

My point is that the “shiny effect” as you put it, is a nice novelty for a game like this and not something that should be tossed aside in favor of convenience in attaining it (when there are already so many other cool skins easily attainable in the game already).

Gathered =/= free

The price of most of the materials will certainly go down or can be gathered over time. That is my plan. Only thing I don’t ‘like’ is the rarity of the exotic tonic. I would love to see a MF recipe to convert rare tonics into the exotic tonics and I am sure people who have loads of rare tonics would love to sell them to me at a higher price.

glad I bought mine when it was 80 gold… geesh… I could make a killing off it now. I already had most the stuff for this, i did spend around 300 gold to aquire some of the other more frustrating mats to get for me. The linseed though is my gate. I need the 6k flax it will take to make those, and im currenty at 300ish farmed so far.

I agree mostly with OP’s cost breakdown, except for batwings and the brew… those are only going to skyrocket. even a year from now, those prices are not gonna drop. The wings will only get rarer, and the people who are selling the brew arent gonna take a 20 gold loss in TP fees just to relist it in a year from now for 80 gold again… sorry, just not gonna happen here.

Something is only free if it’s given to you at no cost. If you have to pay in opportunity cost with time or with loss of income from items you could have sold then it’s not free. It’s just that your costs are not as obvious. But using up mats worth a couple thousand gold and the time spent farming them is still a loss to you.

I don’t even see the atractive of the item. Do people really want it so bad that they can’t stand having to work and wait to get it?

Just made mine …. I love them XD !!!

Did you really say its reasonable to get 250 lodestones just by farming dungeons? Really? Even a serious dungeon runner would take a year to get that many from farming dungeons.

Its a gold wall. Simple as that. Doesnt mean thats bad, the game needs stuff like this to give mats value and to give people something long term to work for. But dont call it something else.

If that endless batwing tonic qualifies as free….why don’t you free me up a winning lotto ticket…much obliged.

LegacyOTS.4681:

Just made mine …. I love them XD !!!

Holy cow! Mastery level 50.

lvl 50 means… i spent 8 hours in COF 1, and 0 time in HoT. Anyone above 50 has done both content farming/lvling.

Ardid.7203:

I don’t even see the atractive of the item. Do people really want it so bad that they can’t stand having to work and wait to get it?

Wait until next halloween?

AndyJo.8794:

Endless Batwing Brew is the ONLY item hidden behind pure RNG, and even the price of those will drop before long.

This is the only thing I’m worried about but everything else is dead on.

Don’t get blinded by the hype. This always happens. For reference, various healing runes and sigils skyrocketed in price within an hour of Druid being confirmed a healing specialization. And now they’re all back down again.

Substatic.6958:

Ardid.7203:

I don’t even see the atractive of the item. Do people really want it so bad that they can’t stand having to work and wait to get it?

Wait until next halloween?

Then open 10K ToT bags, get nothing, wait another year.

Repeat until HL3 comes out.

People screaming to the mighty hilltops about “Opportunity Cost” are, presumably, also the same people who think Flipping doesnt remove gold from the economy.

Quoting the “Opportunity Cost” at 3,000 gold, the hyper-inflated OMFG I HAVE TO HAVE THIS ITEM NOW rate is the same thing as complaining about the gold wall itself. That price is going to be nowhere even vaguely the same as that. If you had the supplies RIGHT NOW to make the item, THEN you would face the idea of a 3K gold “Opportunity Cost.”

By the time these materials are gathered naturally, that price will be much lower. At ANY point, the idea of an opportunity cost means you don’t actually want the item. Plain and simple. This argument strikes me as being bitter about not being able to cash in on the hype frenzy going on right now.

Concerning Lodestones: That’s exactly how I made Twilight, Sunrise, and Infinite Light. So yes, I do think its a pretty simple and straightforward thing to get cores and lodestones from open world content and dungeons. If you don’t want to do it that way, farm gold and buy them; but don’t complain about a gold wall. Nobody is making you buy a single core.

As far as Brews go: I have been an active user of the TP for years now, and there are some rules on it. The biggest of these is that there are more of them out there than you can see right now. There are people who don’t even realize they have it. There are people who are afraid of the undercutting war going on right now. There are people who bought it JUST for this item, but will later decide not to make it. And yes, despite the drop rate being what it is, there are those who are yet to receive one as a random drop.

As these things occur: people deciding not to make the item, people no longer fearing being undercut instantly, people getting new ones; they will either be posted lower than the current market price – sometimes substantially at the aim of a quick sale – or simply sold off to the highest buy order. Over time, the price will drop naturally from this. There are very, VERY few exceptions to this pattern in the game. The only reliable way this would not occur is in the case of open manipulation, where one or two individuals buys them ALL and artificially inflates them.

Afya.5842:

Substatic.6958:

Ardid.7203:

I don’t even see the atractive of the item. Do people really want it so bad that they can’t stand having to work and wait to get it?

Wait until next halloween?

Then open 10K ToT bags, get nothing, wait another year.

Repeat until HL3 comes out.

I hear it’s included with HL3 as a preorder item.

One item to ruin the market.

Can you make a video of where you gather every item and then craft Nightfury for “free”? I’m curious about how long time this will take you.

LOL..OP used the word “Dungeons” several times as a means to attain items…ya good luck with that now :P

SeriousSituation.3462:

I think the RNG prevents this item from being overused to the point where it isn’t unique anymore. This is a fairly flashy item. Even if the other mats take a while, people will find a way to shorten that time if there is no RNG. Just look at legendary greatswords. They are legendaries, and still they are seen quite commonly.

I wouldn’t want Nightfury to be something seen as commonly as those greatswords are. Would kind of ruin the feeling of awesomeness when you see someone with it.

A toy is only cool and fun if NOBODY else has it too. That’s what my friends 4 year old daughter thinks too.

AndyJo.8794:

Nightfury; Blessed Shoulderguard of the Swagseeker. It doesn’t cost 3,000 gold. It doesnt even cost 500 gold. They said you’d have to work for it, and they’re right. There’s a LOT of complaining on these forums that the ONLY way to gt this item is behind a massive gold wall, which is just nonsense. You can get every single item required to make this item on your own, without ever touching the Trading Post. Some of you just don’t want to, so you blame Arena Net for doing exactly what they said they were going to do: Make a very cool item that requires a lot of work to get for those who want it. If that level of work makes you not want it; dont get it!

Linseed Oil refines from Flax. You can get, pretty easily, 100 flax a day within about 5 minutes, much more if you actively run around and gather it instead of just porting to farms. That’s 5 linseed a day, for zero effort and zero gold. Is that a long farm? Yup! Did they say it would be? Yup! It’s almost as if the price of materials on the trading post are driven by direct supply and demand of items or something; pretty wild concept, right?

Endless Batwing Brew is the ONLY item hidden behind pure RNG, and even the price of those will drop before long.

Tattered bat wings are easily obtainable by running the Mad Thorn dungeon.

Glacial Lodestones drop in several dungeons, from many mobs, and the Cores drop from many more mobs around the world.

Onyx Lodestones are the same as above. Run Twilight Arbor, seriously.

Pristine Spore Samples are, much like Linseed oil, entirely farmable on a daily basis.

The Gift of Ascalon is – you already know it – a dungeon reward for tokens.

Glass is obtainable by doing Silverwaste trains, like half the game already does. Get silky sand, get course sand, go make glass.

Mystic Coins are timegated – you will get all 250 entirely free over time

I have never heard of someone saying they had too little Bloodstone Dust

Powerful Blood is farmable from high level mobs, and can be promoted to using t5 bloods

Orichalicum has been farmable for ages; anyone who has ever had to make the Gift of Metal can tell you that Ori running through Orr is quite a thing.

Which brings us to the leather; I don’t actually know a good, solid way of reliably farming leather of that level, but its also never been expensive. The good money is that, by the time you actually need this, the rest of these activities have gotten you more than enough gold as a side-effect to buy a stack of leather.

Congrats, you have now obtained the skin Nightfury for the low low costs of… playing the game. It’s probably June, right about now, but you did it! Enjoy being one of the few people in the game to put the effort into what can be considered the first legendary shoulder item in the game.

while I support you in your approach against the “I deserve things in game” crowd, you clearly do not understand economy. Small hint: Items you acquire and use up are not “free”…

The Tonic can be literally 100% unobtainable regardless of how much work you put into it though so none of that mentality makes sense.