Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

You’re acting like this new gear is so significant a portion of the game, but it’s really not. It’s a couple of rings, an amulet you can get from dailiys and a couple of earrings…and a backpiece.

That’s all there is, so far. You’re making it sound like this will just keep getting worse. What I think is likely is this is a stopgap measure to keep people playing while more content is developed.

I don’t know if it’s going to get worse, but I am concerned that it will. They’ve already indicated that there are Ascended weapons and armor planned. They’ve left the door open to increasing the level cap.

What this means is, are they going to go the cheap and easy route of keeping players, rather than focusing on really, really good content? From a management and creativity perspective, it’s probably easier to just throw in some shiny new gear.

I realize they’re battling short attention spans as well, and every time a new game releases they’re going to have to deal with a new competitor. There’s enough brilliance at ArenaNet, however, that I should think they’d be able to keep the creative engines rolling, rather than falling back on gear grind to keep players. Supposedly we’re getting a “Super Adventure Box” soon. THIS is the kind of thing that’ll keep me interested and playing. Add some tier gear and I’ll get bored and annoyed and go play something else.

But hey, maybe I’m not the kind of player they care to keep playing. Time will tell.

Edit: I’m really enjoying this conversation with you, Vayne.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

You’re acting like this new gear is so significant a portion of the game, but it’s really not. It’s a couple of rings, an amulet you can get from dailiys and a couple of earrings…and a backpiece.

That’s all there is, so far. You’re making it sound like this will just keep getting worse. What I think is likely is this is a stopgap measure to keep people playing while more content is developed.

I don’t know if it’s going to get worse, but I am concerned that it will. They’ve already indicated that there are Ascended weapons and armor planned. They’ve left the door open to increasing the level cap.

What this means is, are they going to go the cheap and easy route of keeping players, rather than focusing on really, really good content? From a management and creativity perspective, it’s probably easier to just throw in some shiny new gear.

I realize they’re battling short attention spans as well, and every time a new game releases they’re going to have to deal with a new competitor. There’s enough brilliance at ArenaNet, however, that I should think they’d be able to keep the creative engines rolling, rather than falling back on gear grind to keep players. Supposedly we’re getting a “Super Adventure Box” soon. THIS is the kind of thing that’ll keep me interested and playing. Add some tier gear and I’ll get bored and annoyed and go play something else.

But hey, maybe I’m not the kind of player they care to keep playing. Time will tell.

Edit: I’m really enjoying this conversation with you, Vayne.

I’m enjoying this convo too.

The thing is, they said before launch they would likely raise the level cap with an expansion, and I went in knowing this…and I don’t mind. Because really what is leveling in this game? How long did it take to get from 70 to 80 for example? It seems to me that the higher I leveled the faster I leveled.

More to the point, if you want more achievement points, that’s one way to get them. They open up new achievements and thus more interesting build varieties. And of course, an expansion should come with more skills, and possibly more weapons.

I’m not worry about raising the level cap, particularly in a game with level scaling.

In other games, level means a whole lot more than it does here.

Had to log in after reading most of the thread. @ Vayne and Clay; you both express things very well and from what I see are not far off the same viewpoint (did like the chocolate break too ;-). Purely on a personal level, I dod not find GW2 a grind and probably fall into that category of player who will accept pretty much anything added to GW2 as long as it is not too game changing. A gear stat treadmill will cause me to leave. Ascended gear is tolerable in that if it is the last level added, it will be a longer term goal.
@ Chuo; I am with you on this. Just hoping the adventure box is not an April Fool thing.
I play every day, have logged over 600 hours but still have not done everything and still find new things around in PvE. Just playing the game is fun in itself. Sometimes having no goal in mind can be the best aspect of playing.

Vayne.8563:

The thing is, they said before launch they would likely raise the level cap with an expansion, and I went in knowing this…and I don’t mind. Because really what is leveling in this game? How long did it take to get from 70 to 80 for example? It seems to me that the higher I leveled the faster I leveled.

I wasn’t concerned about raising the level cap for the same reason. Catching up on level difference didn’t seem to be much of a problem. The same was true of regearing to the new BiS equipment. Now however, replacing obsolete top equipment with new one (if the new one will follow in current ascended footsteps – and i see no reason to thing it won’t be) is going to be a long and tedious process. Process i already know i will not enjoy.
Thus, the existence of ascended gear changed possible level cap expansion from something I might even have enjoyed to something i’m likely going to hate.

The thing that bothers me is that this game is supposed to be a cosmetic gear grind but where are all the rare/unique/region specific/boss specific/event specific cosmetic gear?
(Okay Mad King and Wintersday had some event specific but I mean events like Taidha Covington where the boss has a chance to drop rare gear or recipe for rare gear – some sort of risen pirate theme) Adding more rare recipes would actually make crafting useful
You want people to go after something unique & rare well you have to put it in there. Look at Final Rest. It was an epic Derrr in the end but up until it dropped from Behemoth the interest in finding it was huge.
I simply don’t feel the cosmetics are worth the grind atm because we have stat progression taking priority. Even without the ascended I didn’t see many skins I liked and those I do require far too many lodestones to make for exotic stats. And if I need that many lodestones I might as well just go for a legendary which will have better stats.

I am also waiting for the game to come out that is based on Character progression not gear progression. It doesn’t have to be levels either. It could be levels of skill with weapon type/armor type/magic-melee-ranged/multi weapon combos. I am sure the creative brains of many can keep that list flowing endlessly.
A game where the character’s skill, training, experience determines the stats on the gear not the other way around.

Gear treadmills are an archaic method used by game devs to cheaply add new “content” while putting in the least amount if effort possible. It works for a small time but after a while, it can really start to take its toll on the population of the game.

I went through a phase where I loved gear grinders. I played WoW for 5 years, Aion for 2, Rift for 2 (all consecutively, none concurrently. Minor break in between WoW and Aion). I was a raider who always had to have the best stuff, and i loved every second of it. But after playing EVE online for a while and then GW2, I had a hard time looking back. I returned to Rift not long ago and had a raider buddy send me links to some of his new, “awesome” gear… And I couldn’t see the allure anymore. All I saw was just an item exactly like mine, except with arbitrarily bigger numbers just for the sake of them being bigger.

For me, I can’t go back to a gear grinder. They were awesome in the late 90s with EQ, and early 2000s with WoW… But for me, their time has passed and the MMO genre would do well to leave them behind. I can say with all honesty that if GW 2 ever truly implemented a gear treadmill, deleting the game and never looking back would be one of the easiest things I’ve ever done.

killcannon.2576:

I’m curious, because I’ve never played, could you go through guild wars 1 and complete all the content with the skills you would normally acquire just by leveling to twenty (no buying skills, getting them from dungeons, doing quests for them, etc etc) ? If so, would this be a wise play choice? Would a character who did do this be considered underpowered? Did you need certain skills to do certain content? Did having certain skills make content easier? In pvp?

Noticed that no one answered any of the questions, any input would be great.

killcannon.2576:

killcannon.2576:

I’m curious, because I’ve never played, could you go through guild wars 1 and complete all the content with the skills you would normally acquire just by leveling to twenty (no buying skills, getting them from dungeons, doing quests for them, etc etc) ? If so, would this be a wise play choice? Would a character who did do this be considered underpowered? Did you need certain skills to do certain content? Did having certain skills make content easier? In pvp?

Noticed that no one answered any of the questions, any input would be great.

Yes to content completion (although the Doppleganger would have seriously challenged you)..

This would be an unwise play choice because you would be missing out on the best part of the games’ content…

Yes, such a character would be underpowered because said character would have many fewer choices at hand, and therefore the inability to deal with very many situations effectively and efficiently…

Having certain skills was not technically required for any content, although groups of people often required them…if you had friends who weren’t fussed, you could do just about anything…but this leads into the last question…

Yes, having certain skills and builds made things easier. Read Sun Tzu. Basically, if you knew your enemy, you could choose your weapons beforehand. Therefore, if you fought a nuker, an interrupter would be nice…if you had to deal with knockdown, then stability skills would help…you get the idea…

Basically, in GW, you had hundreds of tools to choose from…and what you did with them could make or break you. A random selection of skills that hadn’t been thought through might work, but using your brain really helped…

Tolmos.8395:

I can say with all honesty that if GW 2 ever truly implemented a gear treadmill, deleting the game and never looking back would be one of the easiest things I’ve ever done.

prepare for deleting
for me, even if it remains as it is in this moment, it’s already a treadmill.
first only ascended accessories, then 500-crafting and armor and weapons…
next…new level cap? xD
that’s what players want…a new tier just to start over grinding.
and reading forums our mates are satisfied with it.

uninstall incoming…

Best necro I ever seen so far, better than in the Dungeons sub’.

Quote for entertainement :
Return to Orr…

i think that the contraposition between that words… and what really happened next, was really really suggestive!
maybe he/she just ragequitted…xD

As this discussion has run its course, the thread is now closed.