Guild Wars 2

Kit.3986:

Dusty Moon.4382:

No game can really FORCE true Team play. Forced grouping, using the Trinity, is NOT TEAM BASED-PLAYING. It is up to the INDIVIDUAL PLAYER to be TEAM based or not. I CHOOSE to be a team player, others do not. It is your choice in this game. At least you have a choice.

Games can, namely by having a complicated enough encounter where players need to communicate and decide upon actions together that will lead to survival and killing the boss in a timely fashion. WvW is a good example of forced teamplay, since if no one plays as a part of the team in that gamemode, they will all die.

I also didn’t point to using the trinity, but at least providing a reason to be any other role than zerker DPS. There are support abilities in the game, there are support builds, there are tankier builds and condition builds, but most groups don’t want to see them or deal with them because it’s simply faster if everyone goes full zerk and stacks on every encounter…. which requires no teamwork besides the occasional rezzing and just pushing out damage: no communication needed, you can even go afk during the fight and still have the boss killed in a timely manner. Putting in a little bit more challenge and getting people to wok together in the dungeon environment would… make it more fun and less like farming events.

And when you go into group content, like a dungeon, shouldn’t a player want to be a team player? What’s the point in doing group content, with a team, if you would rather do solo content?

That IS NOT TEAM PLAY. Team playing is an attitude. When I played Rift, I was forced many times into a group and the other players were not team players. Also saying, I need DPS in X build, healers in Y build and Tanks in Z build or you can’t join is not TEAM PLAY – that is a group of individuals playing together. What is the difference with what GW2 and forcing? At least in GW2, you have a choice.

GW1 GvG and HoM was TEAM play. Dungeons under a Trinity game – sorry no.

Angelica Dream.7103:

@ Bryzy

I will never play a “Holy Trinity” game again. I hated waiting for a healer in GW1 and then hear the group blame them for an even failure.

I do enjoy making my own fate and taking responsibility for how an event turns out. Even soloing impossible odds.

In Fantasy how many heroes needed a a dps, and healer to make them a hero and save the day?

Thanks goodness ANet did away with the “Holy Trinity”

^This

Everyone blames the healer, no matter what. Heck, people used healer heroes in GW1 and still blamed them when they died. Healers were always the scapegoats, whether they were really at fault or not, they just couldn’t win.

Anyways, I still think there is really good team play in this game, as I’ve benefited from traveling with a guardian on many occasions as a thief (that’s just one example).

Seabreeze.8437:

Angelica Dream.7103:

@ Bryzy

I will never play a “Holy Trinity” game again. I hated waiting for a healer in GW1 and then hear the group blame them for an even failure.

I do enjoy making my own fate and taking responsibility for how an event turns out. Even soloing impossible odds.

In Fantasy how many heroes needed a a dps, and healer to make them a hero and save the day?

Thanks goodness ANet did away with the “Holy Trinity”

^This

Everyone blames the healer, no matter what. Heck, people used healer heroes in GW1 and still blamed them when they died. Healers were always the scapegoats, whether they were really at fault or not, they just couldn’t win.

Anyways, I still think there is really good team play in this game, as I’ve benefited from traveling with a guardian on many occasions as a thief (that’s just one example).

My main was a monk, and when I kept the team alive when by all accounts we should have wiped, I was given absolute adoration.
Monks have thick skin anyways, look at the tats
Waiting for a healer was inconsequential compared to just zerg dps everything in the whole game.
GW2 lacks teamwork and synergy between classes.
It is basically a single player game with other people around you.
I still like GW2 but they really need to balance out other game specs, healing being the biggest one.
The game mechanics and balance make for DPS only, which was my fear from before beta

As others have said, trinity is boring.

Djinn.9245:

As others have said, trinity is boring.

But how is it less boring than running around in full zerk and dps everything.
The elimination of the trinity has just caused the game to be DPS only.
This has alot to do with mechanics as well but at least the trinity had depth and teamwork not running around mindlessly tagging baddies for loot.

Bryzy.2719:

TL;DR:

This is NOT a thread requesting the return of the trinity. It well never happen. Read the post before you decide to comment something along those lines. This is a thread to discuss how lack of trinity is affecting GW2.

- Bad balancing + communist style gameplay = boring = loss of players
- If trinity was in place, player skill is still a key factor in winning pvp/wvw

This is a speculative thread and is open to all opinions, not one in which I’m am forcing forward my own – though I do state it.

Note: for newer players, ‘holy trinity’ refers to the profession-specific roles of tank, DPS and healer.

I’ve noticed more players recently giving up this game/logging far fewer hours to pursue real life or other gaming ventures. I’ve no idea if this is a legitimate trend (it most likely isn’t in the scheme of things) as I don’t have access to Anet’s playerbase statistics.

From what I’ve witnessed amongst players, GW2 appears to be a kind of ‘fleeting fancy’ when it comes to gameplay. That is, people will get the game, play for a couple of months, then get bored.

It’s my opinion that the poor profession-balancing skills of the devs [read: Rangers are due for another shafting], combined with the rather communist-esque design of the gameplay [read: no holy-trinity] are completely detrimental to the ‘addictiveness’ of the game. Simply put, comparatively, GW2 just isn’t that addictive meaning it isn’t as fun as other games.

I realise that some are advocates of the “skill factor” (i.e. removing the holy trinity means player skill plays a larger role in pvp/wvw), however I don’t believe this is necessarily the case. If we had the classic DPS/Tank/Healer roles, players’ individual skill would still determine the outcome of a fight. A really good tank would wear down DPS players, a really good DPS player might out-damage a healer’s healing power etc etc.

I have no expectation that Anet will ever incorporate the trinity into the game. The removal of it is, afterall, one of the game’s foundational ideals. It’s just my view that this makes for a weaker game in the long run.

Thoughts?

It’s not for everyone, but fortunately there is no lack of trinity based MMO’s out there so this game is a breath of fresh air for me personally. I don’t agree with your balance statements though as every MMO that has the trinity that I have ever played has balance issues. The thing I like about this game that separates it from the others is that I am not standing around waiting for one of my guild healers to log in so that I can do a dungeon.

Stormcrow.7513:

Djinn.9245:

As others have said, trinity is boring.

But how is it less boring than running around in full zerk and dps everything.
The elimination of the trinity has just caused the game to be DPS only.
This has alot to do with mechanics as well but at least the trinity had depth and teamwork not running around mindlessly tagging baddies for loot.

You confuse trinity games dungeon content with GW2 open world content, so it’s a failed comparisson.

Here goes a trinity fight:

• Press buttons to apply 10/20/30/60 minute raid buffs.
• Tank goes in, generates agro with a few skills.
• DPS starts to deal damage with a few skills.
• Healer press buttons to heal tank(s) with a few skills.
• Heal DPS players if they get unavoidable damage or screw up with sidestepping from red circles.
• Done. Next boss.

It’s much more engaging, right?

I do not want the classic trinity – the tank is a role that exists only in video games because it’s the product of bad AI. It relies on assumptions that break down in PvP and require a huge song and dance to keep both environments running.

BUT, I am really disappointed that the gameplay here is so simplistic it has devolved into a nothing but self-sufficient damage dealers a.k.a. “Lone Wolves” rolling over everything with no deeper strategy than ‘kill it faster!’

Dusty Moon.4382:

That IS NOT TEAM PLAY. Team playing is an attitude. When I played Rift, I was forced many times into a group and the other players were not team players. Also saying, I need DPS in X build, healers in Y build and Tanks in Z build or you can’t join is not TEAM PLAY – that is a group of individuals playing together. What is the difference with what GW2 and forcing? At least in GW2, you have a choice.

GW1 GvG and HoM was TEAM play. Dungeons under a Trinity game – sorry no.

There’s only one role in the game and that’s damage. No one utilizes support, CC, or anything else on the basis that a full zerker damage group will get everything done faster, make everything easier, and result in more reward for time spent than any other group makeup. It’s the same issue in every game: you’re pigeonholed into a specific role, whether you like it or not. (Although, in other games you get a choice — you can make a healer, or a tank, or a damage dealer, or a support class [in some], whereas in GW2 every class may as well say “DPS”).

What choice is there in dungeons? Every group I’ve come across only want full zerker geared players, they require pings in chat to make sure that’s what you’re wearing, then they proceed to stack and avoid tackling any dungeon mechanics (avoiding optional encounters, etc…). Every dungeon is the exact same thing because of this, there is little to no challenge, little to no teamwork, little to no synergy in team-oriented content, it’s all about pushing out as much damage as you can as fast as you can. There’s literally nothing else to think about or to consider half the time. (WvW at least makes use of other class mechanics, like combo fields… which you don’t need to know anything about in the PvE realm).

My point is: Anet needs to make more complicated, harder encounters that can’t be cheesed or simply beaten by a group of glass cannons who just remember to dodge every minute or so.

Nike.2631:

BUT, I am really disappointed that the gameplay here is so simplistic it has devolved into a nothing but self-sufficient damage dealers a.k.a. “Lone Wolves” rolling over everything

Agree for a degree but …

with no deeper strategy than ‘kill it faster!’

Is there an enrage timer in GW2 i’m not aware of? Oh no, thats trinity games …

Bryzy.2719:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Well, Mesmers never really fitted into the Trinity, even in GW1. I think A.Net realized they could capitalize on not having the stale Trinity mechanic.

I think you could have a point there, though I’m getting the impression that that capitalization is now depleting for some of the reasons I mentioned in the OP. They’ve certainly catered to a specific audience with this game, and I don’t think it’s a great long-term business plan.

This sounds Like.." This game is not changeing to what I Like. Therefore it will fail."

People that cannot get their heads out of the trinity box, have been prediciting this game’s failure since Beta.

No trinity was a major selling point of the game sincwe launch. People that bought the game then KNEW it would not have a trinity. So the comment that Gw2 seems to be catering to players that do not like the trinity is spot on.

The fact is…Players that WANT a trinity system In this game…either did no research, since even a little bit of research would have told them.." No trinity here, and that’;s how we like it." or are just hoping that by whining loudly, they can get the devs to abandon a central core of their gaming philosophy for this game.

Do not be surprised with the venomous responces you recieve to your unwanted, undesired comments about one of the main reasons MOST of the players Bought this game… NO TRINITY SYSTEM.

Are the devs " catering" to us? they bloody better be. We bought this game because we did not want a trinity system. The devs launched it saying there would be no trinity system. So no… the devs are not going to cater to as playstyle of players that either did not do their homework…or are just demanding WoW clone # 12,897

Kit.3986:

Dusty Moon.4382:

That IS NOT TEAM PLAY. Team playing is an attitude. When I played Rift, I was forced many times into a group and the other players were not team players. Also saying, I need DPS in X build, healers in Y build and Tanks in Z build or you can’t join is not TEAM PLAY – that is a group of individuals playing together. What is the difference with what GW2 and forcing? At least in GW2, you have a choice.

GW1 GvG and HoM was TEAM play. Dungeons under a Trinity game – sorry no.

There’s only one role in the game and that’s damage. No one utilizes support, CC, or anything else on the basis that a full zerker damage group will get everything done faster, make everything easier, and result in more reward for time spent than any other group makeup. It’s the same issue in every game: you’re pigeonholed into a specific role, whether you like it or not. (Although, in other games you get a choice — you can make a healer, or a tank, or a damage dealer, or a support class [in some], whereas in GW2 every class may as well say “DPS”).

What choice is there in dungeons? Every group I’ve come across only want full zerker geared players, they require pings in chat to make sure that’s what you’re wearing, then they proceed to stack and avoid tackling any dungeon mechanics (avoiding optional encounters, etc…). Every dungeon is the exact same thing because of this, there is little to no challenge, little to no teamwork, little to no synergy in team-oriented content, it’s all about pushing out as much damage as you can as fast as you can. There’s literally nothing else to think about or to consider half the time. (WvW at least makes use of other class mechanics, like combo fields… which you don’t need to know anything about in the PvE realm).

My point is: Anet needs to make more complicated, harder encounters that can’t be cheesed or simply beaten by a group of glass cannons who just remember to dodge every minute or so.

Here is some awesome skillful gameplay in clerics. Just for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMltxyvAvo

Dalanor.5387:

Is there an enrage timer in GW2 i’m not aware of? Oh no, thats trinity games …

Shatterer, the (old) Jungle Worm and shadow Behemoth certainly have timers.

In the case of dungeons kill it faster is mostly a measure of success in an environment with no other challenge. You will finish the dungeon, the only question is ‘how soon?’

Nike.2631:

Dalanor.5387:

Is there an enrage timer in GW2 i’m not aware of? Oh no, thats trinity games …

Shatterer, the (old) Jungle Worm and shadow Behemoth certainly have timers.

In the case of dungeons kill it faster is mostly a measure of success in an environment with no other challenge. You will finish the dungeon, the only question is ‘how soon?’

I tought we talk about dungeons. But indeed those bosses now have timers because of reasons.

A surprisingly big part of the playerbase don’t care about this factor and if they would, all of them would run in zerkers, but they don’t.

I don’t know how dungeons work here, i think there’s a limit right? In that case then you could need teamwork.

In the open worlds, with the Group Events, the big ones, you don’t need any teamwork beacuse of the amount of people making a lot of dps and with some control skills that’s it, you can kill any boss without any problem. See the queensdale Train, people runing around killing bosses just literally spaming all the dps they have and some guys maintaining the monster in it’s place, dies, loot, move on to the next one.

That’s not fun at all, there’s no challenge in that. But also, it’s almost impossible to take the boss by yourself, so yeah.

The elimination of the trinity has just caused the game to be DPS only.
This has alot to do with mechanics as well but at least the trinity had depth and teamwork not running around mindlessly tagging baddies for loot.

Please tell us about how you mindlessly tag Lupicus.

BUT, I am really disappointed that the gameplay here is so simplistic it has devolved into a nothing but self-sufficient damage dealers a.k.a. “Lone Wolves” rolling over everything with no deeper strategy than ‘kill it faster!’

Sounds like trinity to me. DPS’ers spam their rotation, healers heal, tanks tank. It’s all done in order to kill it faster. Decent players drop either the tank or the healer since they’re self sufficient enough to be able to handle becoming off-tank if they have aggro. Also, you don’t just roll over everything in this game. I can link videos at you and explain them all individually until I’m basically blue in the face but you’ll probably just either ignore or dismiss what I write.

There’s only one role in the game and that’s damage. No one utilizes support, CC, or anything else on the basis that a full zerker damage group will get everything done faster,

Nobody uses support or CC! I swear! I could have done this in exactly the same amount of time if I just rolled my face over the keyboard and pressed 1! Oh wait, heavy use of CC is actually extremely relevant for the mesmer in this fight. Thief can perform exactly the same thing, except they just use headshots to get stacks off.

What choice is there in dungeons? Every group I’ve come across only want full zerker geared players, they require pings in chat to make sure that’s what you’re wearing, then they proceed to stack and avoid tackling any dungeon mechanics (avoiding optional encounters, etc…)

Incorrect. I see groups on LFG all day every day just saying !p1" or “p2 anyone welcome”. I even make them myself. The reason you see these zerker groups is because not everyone wants to play berserker and therefore they take longer to fill so they stay up on LFG longer. And if you think stacking and avoiding mechanics works … well I’d like to take you along with me to Arah. See how far we get stacking and avoiding mechanics, after we die for the fiftieth time, maybe you’ll get the message that that isn’t what happens at all – unless the group is bad.

Every dungeon is the exact same thing because of this, there is little to no challenge, little to no teamwork, little to no synergy in team-oriented content,

Here you go, another video:

Might stack at the start of the fight, guardian pops stability for phase 1 > 2 transition, provides aegis because a projectile always goes through reflects in phase 2 and then puts up wall of reflection for the phase 2 > 3 transition because otherwise you can get caught out by stray projectiles smacking you for ~8,000 damage. Mesmer puts up feedback near the end reflecting the spray damage. Would have been more optimal to swap out a warrior for a ranger, and maybe a second warrior for thief or ele – but every player here had their own role. Guardian/mesmer for reflect and defensive support, warriors for offensive support and vulnerability stacking.

(WvW at least makes use of other class mechanics, like combo fields… which you don’t need to know anything about in the PvE realm).

Except … you do the same in dungeons. Fire field + blast for might stacking and whirl finishers in light fields for condition cleansing (it does work, honest). You blast smoke fields for stealth for skipping mobs, you can even blast poison fields for area weakness if your group is short on it for fractals (weakness is extremely relevant at high level fractals).

My point is: Anet needs to make more complicated, harder encounters that can’t be cheesed or simply beaten by a group of glass cannons who just remember to dodge every minute or so.

They already do, people just enjoy (for some reason) simplifying fights in this game as “stack and press 1” – despite the fact that this literally never happens and will cause repeated wipes.

In the case of dungeons kill it faster is mostly a measure of success in an environment with no other challenge. You will finish the dungeon, the only question is ‘how soon?’

Tell that to the groups I solo Lupicus or Alphard. I have screen caps too if you don’t believe me. They would not have finished the dungeon without a solid player to help them finish the fight.

EneERD.4059:

I don’t know how dungeons work here, i think there’s a limit right? In that case then you could need teamwork.

In the open worlds, with the Group Events, the big ones, you don’t need any teamwork beacuse of the amount of people making a lot of dps and with some control skills that’s it, you can kill any boss without any problem. See the queensdale Train, people runing around killing bosses just literally spaming all the dps they have and some guys maintaining the monster in it’s place, dies, loot, move on to the next one.

That’s not fun at all, there’s no challenge in that. But also, it’s almost impossible to take the boss by yourself, so yeah.

You need teamwork and coordination. Just ‘zerging’ everything doesn’t work because you will die and end up paying for armor damage (when you don’t have to pay for armor fixes maybe there will be more just zerg mentality – I don’t know).

Jski.6180:

No.
Your more or less asking for ppl to play the way you want and not let them have the freedom to chose how they play.

You‘ re. (as in you are) Hope I could help!!

Dalanor.5387:

Stormcrow.7513:

Djinn.9245:

As others have said, trinity is boring.

But how is it less boring than running around in full zerk and dps everything.
The elimination of the trinity has just caused the game to be DPS only.
This has alot to do with mechanics as well but at least the trinity had depth and teamwork not running around mindlessly tagging baddies for loot.

You confuse trinity games dungeon content with GW2 open world content, so it’s a failed comparisson.

Here goes a trinity fight:

• Press buttons to apply 10/20/30/60 minute raid buffs.
• Tank goes in, generates agro with a few skills.
• DPS starts to deal damage with a few skills.
• Healer press buttons to heal tank(s) with a few skills.
• Heal DPS players if they get unavoidable damage or screw up with sidestepping from red circles.
• Done. Next boss.

It’s much more engaging, right?

No I played GW1 for 10k hours and was never once bored.
You forgot about protection, hexes, energy management, team synergy, creating builds BEFORE going in the dungeons and the serious risk of actually wiping. GW1 had 10000x more depth to the game than GW2.

GW2 Autoattack, use 100b collect crappy loot. Done. Next boss. 100 people doing the same thing.

Healer, tank, support; the holy trinity is an antiquated cliched gaming mechanic, just about every mmo uses it -but does that mean- that simply because every mmo has used it thus far, that it is therefore a vital feature of all mmos, and in extension, that any game that does not follow this cut and past format is poorly designed, or lacking in some way? Certainly when you’ve spent your entire childhood being spoon-fed the holy trinity, its only natural to have a certain sense of nostalgia. Our minds have been trained to expect a holy trinity and we’ve been conditioned to play in that style… but every kid must eventually give up breast feeding. And I don’t see why a new outlook, why creativity and originality, should be discarded simply because it steps out of the box you’ve been living in.

The simple fact of the matter, is that in GW2 the holy trinity -as a clear, defined team dynamic- is not necessary, because it already exist, balanced(however poorly one might argue) in each class, in the build and trait system. Each character, from skills, to traits, to weapons, even signet and runes; has a natural mix of the trinity, and should the player choose to pursue one aspect over another, may do so at will. What this does for players, is not define them or restrict them to a single role; it allows them to meet the circumstance, and not require cut-and-past party formations to preform a given task; if you want to go in a dungeon with five rangers -a feat that would not be possible in a game that requires a standard healer- you can. More to the point, the balance between the character defined and integrated holy trinity, rather than a party based one, allows for more class diversity; no longer are necromancers, ritualist, and monks the only classes worth playing.

No, GW2 has it own mechanics, and while they may need to be tweaked and refined, by no means are they lacking in comparison to the standard holy trinity, as defined by other MMOs.

GW1 isn’t a classical trinity game, is it? While i didn’t play with the previous game it looks really engaging, even if most players still see it in rose-tinted glasses.

If you do dungeons that way you either only run CoFp1 or get carried by the group.

Lupicus is actually a fun encounter and during the first days of doing Arah most people would mindlessly tag with ranged weapons, and kite. Occasionally using a heal or condi removal.
I did enough Arah that I don’t want to do it anymore and I dont know the current meta, although I do know that people solo it. Is that the new trinity as well? Solo lupi? no need for other team members at all?

Dalanor.5387:

GW1 isn’t a classical trinity game, is it? While i didn’t play with the previous game it looks really engaging, even if most players still see it in rose-tinted glasses.

If you do dungeons that way you either only run CoFp1 or get carried by the group.

GW1 was a trinity game but pretty much digressed to solo perma sins near the end.
I like GW2, I really do. But for the love of god give me a reason NOT to run my zerker warrior…please. My PTV mace/shield guardian sits languishing as a crafting mule….

I think the real issue is so many of our abilities in this game go undervalued. Like if you’re a thief, and you go anything other than 25/30/0/x/x in PvE you’re automatically considered a bad thief.
If you take Withdraw, it’s hard to stack = bad thief
If you take a venom build = bad thief
P/P = Bad thief
x/x/30/x/x = Bad thief
The list goes on.
The only things in the game that are considered useful are those that contribute to the group’s DPS, by way of direct damage, damage buffs, or low cost means of preventing damage. Options that decrease the DPS too significantly or run contrary to the usual stacking tactic are considered worthless.
Lets talk about tactics a sec. This “All for DPS” phenomena spreads to tactics as well, with LoS and Stacking. As enemy AI in this game as no concept of position and flanking, these two tactic have become the ultimate way to handle nearly every PvE encounter in this game. You can’t fault the players for going with what works best, but you should fault the Devs for allowing such a strategy to be optimal with respect to the ratio of offense vs defense. (at least imo, my ideal of optimal combat would be very frantic and dynamic, making full use of all the movement abilities the devs have granted us.)
This extends to gear too. Not talking about armour types mind you, I’m talking about Runes and Sigils. There are so many of them in with game with a multitude of bizarre and interesting effects. What do we all take? Scholar Runes and Ruby Orbs, both upgrades that offer nothing more than damage boosts. This even applies to Foods.

Trinity isn’t necessary, but Zerker Master Race for a year and a half straight doesn’t give me confidence in the future of the game.

Bad Decision Dino.1386:

Trinity isn’t necessary, but Zerker Master Race for a year and a half straight doesn’t give me confidence in the future of the game.

Agreed. The game’s new trinity is an illusion. It is 97% Zerker or GTFO.

Cause stacking and only pressing 1 will get you through spider queen in AC…right..
Cause stacking and only pressing 1 works with mai trin…right..

People’s one-track mind of gw2 being a one-track playstyle are over exaggerating and delusional. I’m all for good change, but these reiterating comments are just..lol

If that’s how some of you people play then there really is a problem.

I would love nothing more that the removal of the players ability to stack but that really is up to the developers to do. You cannot blame the player for using the easiest way through content.

Caelus.7139:

Cause stacking and only pressing 1 will get you through spider queen in AC…right..
Cause stacking and only pressing 1 works with mai trin…right..

People’s one-track mind of gw2 being a one-track playstyle are over exaggerating and delusional. I’m all for good change, but these reiterating comments are just..lol

If that’s how some of you people play then there really is a problem.

Actually it can work, but “sadly” not zerkers are the ones that can pull it off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMltxyvAvo

Stormcrow.7513:

I would love nothing more that the removal of the players ability to stack but that really is up to the developers to do. You cannot blame the player for using the easiest way through content.

Use your WASD buttons to move out from a corner then and search for likeminded people. Enjoy your artifical hard mode.

Caelus.7139:

Cause stacking and only pressing 1 will get you through spider queen in AC…right..
Cause stacking and only pressing 1 works with mai trin…right..

People’s one-track mind of gw2 being a one-track playstyle are over exaggerating and delusional. I’m all for good change, but these reiterating comments are just..lol

If that’s how some of you people play then there really is a problem.

It’s not that a one-track playstyle is the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY to play the game. There are alternatives.

The problem is that given the overall dominance of that one playstyle, and the amount of time it takes to grind gear, you’d be a fool to invest hours and hours and hours on any ascended gear that isn’t Zerker just to support a few couple of niche builds that happen to work in certain fights.

Bad Decision Dino.1386:

Caelus.7139:

Cause stacking and only pressing 1 will get you through spider queen in AC…right..
Cause stacking and only pressing 1 works with mai trin…right..

People’s one-track mind of gw2 being a one-track playstyle are over exaggerating and delusional. I’m all for good change, but these reiterating comments are just..lol

If that’s how some of you people play then there really is a problem.

It’s not that a one-track playstyle is the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY to play the game. There are alternatives.

The problem is that given the overall dominance of that one playstyle, and the amount of time it takes to grind gear, you’d be a fool to invest hours and hours and hours on any ascended gear that isn’t Zerker just to support a few couple of niche builds that happen to work in certain fights.

People see one type of build on the internet and they think that is all there is. There is more, but people would rather copy and innovate.

Not using "zerker’ on my Mesmer and I find the build, I am currently using, more useful than you possibly can know in WvW. My Engineer is currently using Soldiers and can do quite well in WvW also. Know the profession, know what it can do.

You forgot about protection, hexes, energy management, team synergy, creating builds BEFORE going in the dungeons and the serious risk of actually wiping. GW1 had 10000x more depth to the game than GW2.
GW2 Autoattack, use 100b collect crappy loot. Done. Next boss. 100 people doing the same thing.

I want you to go in to Arah and record yourself and a group autoattacking and hundred blades. Please do it. If you’re going to make claims like this at least have the decency to back it up with footage.

I did enough Arah that I don’t want to do it anymore and I dont know the current meta, although I do know that people solo it. Is that the new trinity as well? Solo lupi? no need for other team members at all?

You can solo entire dungeons and bosses in trinity games too. What’s your point? That an extremely small elite is able to solo one of the toughest bosses in the game means that the game is at fault? The fact that us people in this small core of people have basically learnt the fight and our class mechanics like the back of our hands and therefore are able to solo a challenging boss means that the game is bad? Why do you not want to do Arah? You have mobs that have synergies with each other. Sentinels that lock players in positions, illusionists with strong area denial chaos storm, hunters providing stability to their allies plus spawning adds, elementalists which apply protection, chill and use a projectile attack which makes it complete suicide to melee without reflects. You have bosses with varied mechanics that punish players who make mistakes and stops them from “press 1 and faceroll”. Hunter/crusher can catch you out if you dont have an evade or cleanse for immobilise. Lupicus we all are familiar with. Alphard punishes poor positioning extremely heavily. Belka punishes poor positioning by pushing you in to fire fields at certain intervals. Lyssa demands you to be paying enough attention to stop attacking when she hits with 25 stacks of confusion. Simin requires you to watch for people turning to stone so you can pop stability and to apply tears to remove the stoning if people get afflicted with it. You need to avoid lightning fields which deal medium amounts of damage over time.

Agreed. The game’s new trinity is an illusion. It is 97% Zerker or GTFO.

Support, control, DPS.

Support, control, DPS.

You also don’t need to run berserker. Advertise on LFG for a normal group (no mention of DPS or zerker in your LFG) and it will fill quickly.

I would love nothing more that the removal of the players ability to stack but that really is up to the developers to do. You cannot blame the player for using the easiest way through content.

I agree, we should all suffer because you dislike stacking. How about you make your own non-stacking parties, there’s a thread in the dungeon forum with an entire no-stacking guild.

It’s people like you which is why I started recording dungeons, boss kills and solo kills just so I can link proof that the game isn’t just stack and press 1. I’m sick to death of people trivialising the skill involved in clearing content (as in using full glass cannon) efficiently (i.e. no afk range spots, actually interacting with mechanics) by saying it’s just stack and press 1. It isn’t. I want to take all of these people who claim these lies to Arah, stack and press 1 with them and watch ourselves wipe over and over and over again.

Dusty Moon.4382:

People see one type of build on the internet and they think that is all there is. There is more, but people would rather copy and innovate.

If there are 10 encounters, and each has a totally different optimal build that requires a certain niche stat and talent distribution (and might very well get nerfed out of commission in the next patch), but Zerker works 2nd-best for 9 of them and never gets significantly nerfed, then anyone who doesn’t have the time to grind out 10 different gear sets is essentially being forced into Zerker.

This isn’t GW1 where you could try out new things on the fly. Innovation is costly, time-consuming, risky, and frankly, not tremendously rewarding.

If people are leaving the game it’s due to lack of content in general not the combat system. The trinity fans would have left a very long time ago.

Ps I am one of the people who are playing less here now due to the lack of content, especially non combat content and thus I am playing another game while still doing my dailies here now while I wait for new content. And for the record, no I don’t class Living Stories as new content, that’s filler. :P

Bad Decision Dino.1386:

Dusty Moon.4382:

People see one type of build on the internet and they think that is all there is. There is more, but people would rather copy and innovate.

If there are 10 encounters, and each has a totally different optimal build that requires a certain niche stat and talent distribution (and might very well get nerfed out of commission in the next patch), but Zerker works 2nd-best for 9 of them and never gets significantly nerfed, then anyone who doesn’t have the time to grind out 10 different gear sets is essentially being forced into Zerker.

This isn’t GW1 where you could try out new things on the fly. Innovation is costly, time-consuming, risky, and frankly, not tremendously rewarding.

I think it is. It was as expensive in GW1 also. ‘Zerker’ is not the ‘Skeleton Key’ that fits every lock, people would like to think it is but it is not.

Play how you want to play, is all I can say.

Will give you an example from the last part of the LS that just finished, Everyone knows what I am talking about, the Knights. So many people in ’Zerker’s’ just sat there did not move and died because of their ‘superior’ DPS abilities. Many times it is not about using ‘brute force’ but about the fine touch that works the best.

Dusty Moon.4382:

It was as expensive in GW1 also.

If you truly believe this, then I guess we just have a fundamental difference in how we perceive reality.

I dont do arah anymore because there is no reason to. I have my full set of arah and many weapons.

I didn’t use zerker doing arah because it was before zerker was the meta. People were still learning the game.

Agreed that GW2 is very prohibitive in creating different builds, unless of course you trade gems for gold. GW1 armor was cheap and easy to get max level.

I dont do arah anymore because there is no reason to. I have my full set of arah and many weapons.

Here’s a good one:

Challenge. I learnt to solo paths. Getting gold from selling it is nice, but it’s the challenge which drove me to learn it.

People like you complain about uninteresting combat and “stack and press 1” but Arah is probably the furthest you can possibly get from that.

And yet you don’t want to do it.

Well you know what? If you purposely do easy content, then yeah, you will faceroll it. Actually challenge yourself and maybe you’ll realise there are decent fights in this game.

Watching people that know what they are doing is always fun, be with trinity or not. Watching a master tank at work when things get hairy is simply amazing. As with really good healers. Or if you lack the masters, a team that have to distribute aggro, communicate, decide and act in syncronity, where the survival of the team is what matters, because its the only way to win.
Though without the trinity, there is plenty of teamwork in gw2, and its just as fun to see good teams in action, though failure in gw2 rarerly matters that much. A mild annoyance mostly, not several days of xp wasted.
If theres gonna be “interesting” boss mechanics, and condition and cc is to become as viable as dps, its hard to see how Anet can avoid roles. As in spesific proffesions for spesific bosses/dungeons.

Stormcrow.7513:

I would love nothing more that the removal of the players ability to stack but that really is up to the developers to do. You cannot blame the player for using the easiest way through content.

True comment. I was stacking in Daoc (that’s pre-WoW for those who don’t know) and that was with a trinity. We were still able get to that easy stage, and it was still boring.

lol @ anyone who said with a straight face that trinity = boring.

What we have currently is ridiculously boring.

I’m talking strictly PvE here – there is absolutely NO reason to wear any other gear or spec towards anything other than DPS roll.

Tell me one instance where I need PVT/Clerics gear or anything else really?
Every single pve content including high lvl fracs can be beat with a pure DPS spec group/zerkers.

Instead of getting rid of tank/healer/dps/control, its now purely dps dps dps dps.

That is all you need to beat PvE in this game. That is the definition of boring.

There is a reason why majority of the big time successful MMOs have the trinity. It defines roles, it allows indivuals to actual pick a role and learn it, master it, excel at it.
What do you do here? just slap on zerker gear and L2 dodge and learn some easily telegraphed attacks and profit.

The PvE in this game is made simple and easy because of the direct lack of trinity. There is no reason to spec towards anything in pve. No reason to focus on building towards a “support” or “control” spec

Now by no means am I saying GW2 should add trinity to the game, but they need to re-tool and change up the simplistic PvE. Nerfing zerker is not going to change a darn thing. It will STILL remain the best option in terms of DPS because in this game, everything can still be beat in zerker gear and quite efficiently

Kratos.6293:

I agree with you. I recently watched this anime called Log Horizon, it’s about these people trapped in an MMORPG and they had a fight with these monsters with the holy trinty. It looked super fun. Tank Healer DPS. I loved how they coordinated.

So, basically, it wasnt based on reality then by your description?

SkiTz.4590:

lol @ anyone who said with a straight face that trinity = boring.

What we have currently is ridiculously boring.

I’m talking strictly PvE here – there is absolutely NO reason to wear any other gear or spec towards anything other than DPS roll.

Tell me one instance where I need PVT/Clerics gear or anything else really?
Every single pve content including high lvl fracs can be beat with a pure DPS spec group/zerkers.

Instead of getting rid of tank/healer/dps/control, its now purely dps dps dps dps.

That is all you need to beat PvE in this game. That is the definition of boring.

There is a reason why majority of the big time successful MMOs have the trinity. It defines roles, it allows indivuals to actual pick a role and learn it, master it, excel at it.
What do you do here? just slap on zerker gear and L2 dodge and learn some easily telegraphed attacks and profit.

The PvE in this game is made simple and easy because of the direct lack of trinity. There is no reason to spec towards anything in pve. No reason to focus on building towards a “support” or “control” spec

Now by no means am I saying GW2 should add trinity to the game, but they need to re-tool and change up the simplistic PvE. Nerfing zerker is not going to change a darn thing. It will STILL remain the best option in terms of DPS because in this game, everything can still be beat in zerker gear and quite efficiently

Watch this and tell me with a straight face that I’m just DPSing. That there’s no support (stability) or CC (spades and spades of it).

Notice that most parties, especially those doing high level content, have a mix of classes. There’s a reason. While there is no ‘trinity’, a party of mixed classes gains lots of synergies from different professions. I could go on to give endless examples, but longtime players are familiar with this.

FYI there is more than Arah in the game

SkiTz.4590:

Tell me one instance where I need PVT/Clerics gear or anything else really?
Every single pve content including high lvl fracs can be beat with a pure DPS spec group/zerkers.

Same with PVT / clerics, they can do the content too. But tell me, if your statement is true, why do i need 10 minutes to find 4 full berzerker geared player for a single dungeon run?

Instead of getting rid of tank/healer/dps/control, its now purely dps dps dps dps.

That is all you need to beat PvE in this game. That is the definition of boring.

Yeah, because in other games you tank and heal the bosses to death and you don’t need to deal damage. Yeah, all of us know this. Thank you.

There is a reason why majority of the big time successful MMOs have the trinity. It defines roles, it allows indivuals to actual pick a role and learn it, master it, excel at it.

Making an MMO requires a huge amount of money. I’m talking about millions of dollars. So it’s risky to not copy the most succesful MMO of history, namely WoW which surprisingly has the trinity system in their PvE combat.

What do you do here? just slap on zerker gear and L2 dodge and learn some easily telegraphed attacks and profit.

That’s what ordinary humans call skill. Well timed active defenses requires some brain work. Not rocket science but still.

The PvE in this game is made simple and easy because of the direct lack of trinity. There is no reason to spec towards anything in pve. No reason to focus on building towards a “support” or “control” spec

Because you can’t. Support is mostly 100% isn’t gear or trait dependend. Just look at your skillbar. What do you see on the right side. Utility skills, right? Good. Now think about it for a minute and you will get it.

Now by no means am I saying GW2 should add trinity to the game, but they need to re-tool and change up the simplistic PvE. Nerfing zerker is not going to change a darn thing. It will STILL remain the best option in terms of DPS because in this game, everything can still be beat in zerker gear and quite efficiently

If you make content that one type of build, namely berserker can’t beat it, where do the equal footing goes? Zerker has enough mitigation to surivive while burning down the mobs, meanwhile PVT and clerics simply outlast the incoming damage. Simple.

I’ve stopped login in due to boredom, but trinity was not the reason I was bored. The massive grind and lack of PvP focus is what killed this game for me. The devs keep listening to the WoW crowd, instead of their loyal GW fan base.

It’s amazing to me that people can be so out of touch with what can actually happen in GW2 group content with good players who understand their profession and the game’s combat. Hendo gets it. Others seem embedded in the old paradigm where roles were dictated by choice of class/profession and gear. GW2 roles are flexible, change from encounter to encounter and are not bound to gear (which is why gear that increases damage is seen as superior). Do people really think that a change in paradigm could be accomplished without changing the way roles worked?

What is boring about GW2 is that the group content has been around for 19 months, with the exception of one TA path (months old now), a few additions to FotM and a revamped AC that is “only” 14 months old. That is not due to lack of trinity, it is due to ANet’s focus on herd encounters in the persistent world, which has its own problems.

IndigoSundown.5419:

It’s amazing to me that people can be so out of touch with what can actually happen in GW2 group content with good players who understand their profession and the game’s combat. Hendo gets it. Others seem embedded in the old paradigm where roles were dictated by choice of class/profession and gear. GW2 roles are flexible, change from encounter to encounter and are not bound to gear (which is why gear that increases damage is seen as superior). Do people really think that a change in paradigm could be accomplished without changing the way roles worked?

Somewhat related to your comment, it’s a fresh story.
Waited for some help at Tar as a warrior, when one of the other warriors who joined says that “the turrets arent destroyed, so i can’t make it” and leaves the group. The other warrior, the ranger and i was like … wut? Dude, even the ranger could make it! He just should equip Endure pain and a greatsword, but noooo …