No Subscription Fees: Pros and Cons

No Subscription Fees: Pros and Cons

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Posted by: Arnox.5128

Arnox.5128

What would you say are the advantages of having no sub fee and the disadvantages as well, especially in the context of GW2?

ArenaNet, please give us more skills!

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Posted by: Diva.4706

Diva.4706

The advantage of no sub for GW2 for my family, is it doesn’t cost us $60 a month to play. (yes we have 4 players in the home).

We don’t play standard F2P MMOs, because of the game breaking restrictions most of those impose

So for us GW2 B2P is perfect with no downside.

Edit: Also you can buy GW2 as a gift, unlike sub based MMOs : Here is a gift ,oh and btw you have to pay $15 a month

(edited by Diva.4706)

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Posted by: Arnox.5128

Arnox.5128

The advantage of no sub for GW2 for my family, is it doesn’t cost us $60 a month to play. (yes we have 4 players in the home).

We don’t play standard F2P MMOs, because of the game breaking restrictions most of those impose

So for us GW2 B2P is perfect with no downside.

Edit: Also you can buy GW2 as a gift, unlike sub based MMOs : Here is a gift ,oh and btw you have to pay $15 a month

Very true.

On the other hand, anyone know any cons at all. Possible risks?

ArenaNet, please give us more skills!

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

For me the big advantages are that it saves me money and gives me much more flexibility in playing.

I could probably afford a subscription fee most months – my gem store purchases average out to about £10 a month anyway. But some months I need that money for other things, maybe I’m going on holiday or Christmas is coming up or the washing machine broke down. If it was a subscription I’d then have to choose between playing the game or spending the money on something else. (Or cutting back on other things to afford both.)

Also I’d much rather play for free and spend that money on in-game items than spend it purely for the “privilege” of playing and then spend more on top of that for in-game items. (I don’t think there are MMOs without a cash shop these days.)

Also if I was paying a subscription fee I’d want to make sure I got my moneys worth in play-time that month. Which means either planning my month to make sure I have plenty of time to play or only paying when I know I’ll have time. Without a subscription I can play as and when I have time and feel like it without worrying about it.

So far I haven’t seen a downside either. Although I admit I haven’t played subscription games in a long time so I’m just going off what other people have said. But I don’t feel like I’m forced to buy things from the gem store when I don’t want them and we get regular updates with free content (temporary true, but I think that’s a choice rather than a limitation of the business model) and bug fixes.

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Pros? There are no “pros” with subscription fees – only cons.

The thing is, there nothing that stops Anet from saying “hey if you buy 1000 or more gems in a month, you also get 500 gems for free the next month if you buy 1000 or more again that month!”. Voila. A “subscription” many people want to use without the give-us-your-credit-card-and-kitten kittentery of forced subscription games. Many people in GW2 already pay MORE a month than a subscription game, no doubt.

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Posted by: Arnox.5128

Arnox.5128

Pros? There are no “pros” with subscription fees – only cons.

The thing is, there nothing that stops Anet from saying “hey if you buy 1000 or more gems in a month, you also get 500 gems for free the next month if you buy 1000 or more again that month!”. Voila. A “subscription” many people want to use without the give-us-your-credit-card-and-kitten kittentery of forced subscription games. Many people in GW2 already pay MORE a month than a subscription game, no doubt.

Is that really A.Net’s fault or problem? In fact, I think, as Beckett would say, that that’s just good business. There absolutely nothing forcing you to go buy some gems. You can still very much enjoy the full game without buying more than just the game. So, it’s really nobody’s problem but their own if they so desperately need to buy gems.

ArenaNet, please give us more skills!

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Posted by: Meglobob.8620

Meglobob.8620

No subscription is all pro, no downside at all…

A monthly subscription is all CON…

Never, really understood why someone would pay $15 a month subscription fee when over a year that’s 4 $60 games…

4 $60 games will always have more content, variety than 1 game costing $240 per year…

On steam foe $240 you could easily get 10-20 good games…no problem…

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Posted by: Naus the Gobbo.5172

Naus the Gobbo.5172

Not having a subscription fee is only pros.

If you pay every month you expect a certain quality of updates and quality content on a regular basis – this leads to nothing but dissapointment.

If you only have to buy the box you appreciate the content added an awful lot more because you wouldn’t nessecarily expect it since you aren’t paying for it.

Plus, if you don’t pay a subscription you actually want to give the developers money because you appreciate them a lot more and want to support the game more.

Having a subscription fee for an MMO is a thing of the past.

Think of GWII as Minecraft. Perhaps you only play it every now and then, but it is there for you whenever you feel like it, without you having pay for it.

What we do in life echoes in eternity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6zkT2uZAGA – GW2 – A world of wonder

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Posted by: Siigari.6587

Siigari.6587

The bias in this thread is mind-boggling.

Having a subscription brings quite a few benefits to a game. For starters, GENERALLY most things that mean anything can only be acquired in-game.

That’s just scratching the surface. There are plenty more benefits, but that’s the main one. Everyone starts and ends on the same playing field.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

The bias in this thread is mind-boggling.

Having a subscription brings quite a few benefits to a game. For starters, GENERALLY most things that mean anything can only be acquired in-game.

That’s just scratching the surface. There are plenty more benefits, but that’s the main one. Everyone starts and ends on the same playing field.

That is true to an extent, but even sub models are starting to adopt these shop models where shop stuff is exclusive. Is it game breaking stuff? Well that varies. Gw2 has nothing in the shop that you need to play the game. You cant buy an advantage over another player. In lotro, you can and thats a sub.

The gap between sub and no sub is narrowing. Sub accounts used to have the advantage by unrestrictive content, but now the norm is becoming no sub and full access. Thats the big sell for this game. After box price, you never need to spend money again. If you do, it is purely social and cosmetic reasons.

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Pros? There are no “pros” with subscription fees – only cons.

The thing is, there nothing that stops Anet from saying “hey if you buy 1000 or more gems in a month, you also get 500 gems for free the next month if you buy 1000 or more again that month!”. Voila. A “subscription” many people want to use without the give-us-your-credit-card-and-kitten kittentery of forced subscription games. Many people in GW2 already pay MORE a month than a subscription game, no doubt.

Is that really A.Net’s fault or problem? In fact, I think, as Beckett would say, that that’s just good business. There absolutely nothing forcing you to go buy some gems. You can still very much enjoy the full game without buying more than just the game. So, it’s really nobody’s problem but their own if they so desperately need to buy gems.

Err… In case you missed it, that was exactly my point. I am against subscriptions and enjoy the game alot because of it… BUT it would be just as good buisness for Anet to give some incentive for spending monthly on the gemstore (such as a hefty free bonus to gems). Its still just gems, you dont get more content than the ones not buying it anymore than you get today. And yes, the fact that this option is missing is Anets fault. Unlikely to change of course.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

For starters, GENERALLY most things that mean anything can only be acquired in-game.

So suddenly awesome looking skins are things that “mean anything” or cause an advantage over other players? No they do not.

Also, last I checked you can convert gold to gems and get literally everything in-game, without using any cash.

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Posted by: Pirlipat.2479

Pirlipat.2479

I try to compare those models from a general perspective. Ofc thats my personal opinion.

I’d like to remind you that A-Net is not entirely F2P. Everyone of us already spent 50 Euro at least on the game. So however if you buy the game you still have the risk that you might not like the game and wasted your money. I’m not saying I did but that’s a risk of that model in general.

In general F2P games tend to be pay to win. The cash-shops usually sell stuff that is relevant to proceed. Either XP-Boosts for grinder or improvement for equip or certain maps or what ever so if someone wants to enjoy the whole game in other F2P he usually has to pay. If someone play alot he might as well be able to finance this cash-shop content by exchanging ingame currency into chash-shop currency. (But that does not work for everyone ofc.) At least these are my experiences with those kind of games.

If you do not care so much for a steady progression you can play F2P games very well for free, but many people tend to invest more than they would have spent on a subscription based game.

Subscription based games on the other hand, well they bind you by a subscription. Usually there is nothing wrong with it when you like the game. But if you want to take a break well you will pay your subscription for nothing. you are somehow bound to the game.

So I would say from my perspective GW2 is a good compromise. You buy the game and the rest is F2P but because they already got money they can afford to sell rather cosmetic items but do not have to rely on game relevant stuff.

(edited by Pirlipat.2479)

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Posted by: Karizee.8076

Karizee.8076

I think the B2P model is the best I’ve seen. I am never locked out of my account for lack of a sub fee and I can choose to purchase gems when I want to show my support for what they are doing with the game.

It’s the only way to play MMOs now

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Yes, I am biased against games that require a subscription. Why? Because these games all copy the gear-progression repetitive-content mechanics refined by Blizzard, which are essentially designed to keep people p(l)aying every month. I will no longer rent MMO’s. If I want to rent a game I’ll buy a console and go to Redbox.

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Posted by: Arnox.5128

Arnox.5128

Thanks for the well thought out replies, everyone. I am now enlightened. :\

ArenaNet, please give us more skills!

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Posted by: starwatto.4527

starwatto.4527

My point of view…
+ Saves me alot of money (I am poor student)

+ Saves me alot of time -> I used to play World of Warcraft on official servers (mostly because private servers sucked alot) and paying for game was making daily login as some kind of “must” -> it forced me to get rid of other hobbies. I don’t want that.

- ArenaNet has to make much more RNG kitten because people love to gamble with their money -> and ArenaNet needs money, the game needs money

- Support doesn’t have as high quality as in P2P MMOs (again, I am comparing to Blizzard and their WoW)

- Content is more likely temporary, because it makes people login more often than permanent content -> they have to find some way to force us to play, anyway, I find this much more “natural” and friendly than payment way…

- If you want to look so kittening good with the newest weapon, you just have to buy it via the real money (if you are not crazy farmer)

As you can see, I have 2 pros and 4 cons… but don´t take it in direct comparsion, because these 2 pros are very important to me and it makes me play Guild Wars 2 instead of any monthly payed MMO game. Maybe I could find any other pros and cons, but I wanted to write in only the most imporatnt ones (to me).

And one important point – Guild Wars 2 crushes every (EVERY) other no-payment MMORPG game on the market, these “free to play” kittens in which you have “pay to win” system just can’t be compared to really fine GW2 system, which isn’t forcing us to pay for… well, just being able to play.

Casually hardcore since 2012
Aurora Glade
[rddt]

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Posted by: Wildman.9641

Wildman.9641

When the Devs Nerf my favorite toon it hurts less than when they Nerf you and also give you a monthly bill after doing it!

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Posted by: Creeper.9360

Creeper.9360

I see no pros with a subscription fee

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Posted by: SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453

SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453

F2P sucks in this game in the regard that Anet enforces horrible RNG mechanics and DR restrictions. Think about it. They want you to grind the game and play for the long haul so you’ll want to buy the next expansion. More money in their pockets. When you P2P you support a dev company that has a steady income from their player base and therefore creates more player-friendly content that nearly everyone appreciates. Something in exchange for paying to play that you take for granted until you play GW2 for a while and you realize how cruddy the rewards are.

So F2P loses to P2P in my opinion. And if you ask me if the rewards could be better and DR taken away I’d play more alot more often but it’s not really about that is it? I’ve already stopped buying gems and I probably won’t buy the next expansion if there ever is one and that hurts you, Anet, the most. Thanks for everything but if your wvw patch doesnt spice things up than I’m uninstalling. Have a nice day

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

When you P2P you support a dev company that has a steady income from their player base and therefore creates more player-friendly content that nearly everyone appreciates. Something in exchange for paying to play that you take for granted until you play GW2 for a while and you realize how cruddy the rewards are.

Got a nice laugh from this. P2P encourages the development of repetitive content as much as if not more than B2P. That crap is no more “player-friendly” than stuff I see in F2P games, never mind GW2. And no, nearly everyone does not appreciate it. No player base is ever content with what’s put out, no matter which game you’re talking about. For example, look at Rift. In its first year TW put out new content every month, and the forums were a constant sea of discontent about nothing to do.

I’m not saying GW2 is perfect – it isn’t. I still find it far superior to every other MMO I’ve played. You don’t. That’s fine, but it does not mean that one business model is better.

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Posted by: SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453

SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453

It’s grindy to the point of depression. That’s a bad business model. Maybe that puts it down better to you.

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Posted by: Geotherma.2395

Geotherma.2395

All things being equal-

B2P
Less RMT, no further costs, full functionality. Dependent on cash shop, cash shop should NOT be part of the in game economy ie. should not be able to sell item 1 in game for in game currency. There is some room for this, but once 50% or more of the shop becomes available in game it causes serious problems. However, because of the one time bulk price some players who we generally want in game may shy away. But at the same time so do the ones we don’t.

P2P
More frequent updates, generally better support than F2P, and less RMT than F2P. Usually niche games are P2P, they know their loyal fans will support the game. If they have a store it continues to support the game as well. P2P may even have in game GM’s who can support the game internally aside from Community Coordinators. P2P usually has a close knit community who are respectful and helpful. Of course this depends greatly on the game. Downside is a monthly fee that makes some shy away from joining, again though also holds true for RMT and “bad crowd”.

F2P
Brings in large amounts of players, has no needed costs involved. Shops support the game and may be flooded with items for your choosing. Downside is you generally get less support than the other models, less in game support, and less action against the unruly crowd that follows this model. You also may get less updates depending on funds. This model draws in players seeking to try the game, but unfortunately because of the free ticket for RMT, trolls, and generally unwanted types, those players will experience a difficult community regardless of how amazing the game is.

There are hybrids of all of these types. Some B2P/P2P games eventually go F2P because of numbers or dwindling sales. This is usually the last effort to revive the game, but sadly is usually the reason it falls below expectations. In any model it is very important for the games creators to understand how to run their shop and in game economy. Also very important is how customer service is handled in every aspect. And again gold sinks are needed, cash shop can not be kitten -in game $$ win. Even if the game is entirely against P2W, a badly marketed and managed cash shop can turn even a fluff shop into a P2W shop.

A few quick personal opinions:

Tera-F2P with Elite option. Elite option is a huge advantage over F2P version, cash shop is used to make money in-game, and the overall community is the worst I’ve ever seen in MMO’s and is hardly monitored. Store makes you rich, trolls make you sad. The game itself is actually “ok” but does not stray much away from the old styles of trinity and other aspects that most MMO’s are stuck on.

Aion-F2P Overrun with RMT, games balancing issues because lack of support anymore, many closed down offices. Virtually 0 customer support and RMT handling available. Community somewhat dreadful. Gear and store runs this game.

GW2-B2POverall good experience, cannot use many gem items to heavily overrun the in game economy. Living story updates supplement expansions until they arrive, developers respond with feedback very often, and moderators of the game and forums are very strict to keep everyone in line-even at times maybe a little too much. Support is great and community is great overall. Lacking a little more content as far as core for those who burned through the game quickly, needs a little balancing. RMT are almost entirely never seen or heard aside from nod tele-ing ones. Could use some more free trials to get people to experience the game, with the same strong restrictions and temporary availability to thwart RMT’s from entering the game in masses.

Upcoming MMO’s that may introduce innovated designs like GW2’s various aspects, Tera’s targeting, and graphics- TESO,FFXIV,Destiny(Not grouped with MMOs but has some concepts),Wildstar and many others. I expect them to bring things to the table we have never thought of, or have wished for. I think MMO’s are heading in a new direction, one that listens and responds to players, rather than responding to making cash and losing cash. The models listed have so many variations it is hard to list them all, but great leaps and bounds are being made to ensure the future of MMO’s stays strong. With the introduction of the new generation of consoles, I see MMO’s also being available for many more people, which may help struggling or new games become what they set out to be.

Intel i7 3.9ghz processor 16GB Ram 2TB HDD
Nvidia GTX 650 Win 7 64bit FFXI 4+yrs/Aion 4+ years Complete Noob~ Veteran OIF/OEF
http://everyonesgrudge.enjin.com/home MY GW2 Music http://tinyurl.com/cm4o6tu

(edited by Geotherma.2395)

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Posted by: eisberg.2379

eisberg.2379

See no advantage to Subscription at all. Take GW2 and WoW as an example, GW2 has already introduced more new content in 8 months, then WoW did in any 8 month period. And that is just 1 example.

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Posted by: dcypher.2590

dcypher.2590

What would you say are the advantages of having no sub fee and the disadvantages as well, especially in the context of GW2?

biggest con in a non sub game is RNG boxes

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Posted by: pullnointer.1476

pullnointer.1476

cons: a kittening sub game gets upgraded every once in while

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Posted by: Geotherma.2395

Geotherma.2395

What would you say are the advantages of having no sub fee and the disadvantages as well, especially in the context of GW2?

biggest con in a non sub game is RNG boxes

They are in F2P games as well as P2P games. Also:
con 4 (kn) Slang
tr.v. conned, con·ning, cons
To swindle (a victim) by first winning his or her confidence; dupe.
n.
A swindle.
adj.
Of, relating to, or involving a swindle or fraud: a con artist; a con job.

Boxes hold items of various rarities, those rarities have been known by players. If you pick the wrong cup you still get an item. Not a con, a chance. And really wish people would stop putting RNG boxes into every single thread, it has its own threads, stop bleeding into every other one.

Intel i7 3.9ghz processor 16GB Ram 2TB HDD
Nvidia GTX 650 Win 7 64bit FFXI 4+yrs/Aion 4+ years Complete Noob~ Veteran OIF/OEF
http://everyonesgrudge.enjin.com/home MY GW2 Music http://tinyurl.com/cm4o6tu

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Posted by: dcypher.2590

dcypher.2590

What would you say are the advantages of having no sub fee and the disadvantages as well, especially in the context of GW2?

biggest con in a non sub game is RNG boxes

They are in F2P games as well as P2P games. Also:
con 4 (kn) Slang
tr.v. conned, con·ning, cons
To swindle (a victim) by first winning his or her confidence; dupe.
n.
A swindle.
adj.
Of, relating to, or involving a swindle or fraud: a con artist; a con job.

Boxes hold items of various rarities, those rarities have been known by players. If you pick the wrong cup you still get an item. Not a con, a chance. And really wish people would stop putting RNG boxes into every single thread, it has its own threads, stop bleeding into every other one.

You’re joking right? F2P, B2P..same thing if you ask me, besides the initial purchase. The cash shops are the same..the unlocking of bag space..etc. I’ve never experienced an RNG box in a sub game. RNG in loot off bosses? Sure..but not RNG boxes, designed to get you to purchase as many as possible. You can hide it under the guise of having a chance all you want…if it was a sub game that chance would turn into you can get it by playing straight up.

Transmog gear (which are skins) in wow are locked behind content…like challenge mode dungeons and darkmoon festivities. In this game tho? You have to just keep buyion and buyin and buyin…or farming and farming and farming (isn’t that funny? You’re comeback will be about being able to obtain it in game…by contradicting all the other apologists about how this game isn’t about farming. lols)

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Only pro I can see with a subscription fee is forum access is usually tied to game access.

This way those who’ve quit the game for some reason will have to pay to keep telling us how bad the game is and how everyone he knows has already left and the rest of you are all doomed.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Geotherma.2395

Geotherma.2395

What would you say are the advantages of having no sub fee and the disadvantages as well, especially in the context of GW2?

biggest con in a non sub game is RNG boxes

They are in F2P games as well as P2P games. Also:
con 4 (kn) Slang
tr.v. conned, con·ning, cons
To swindle (a victim) by first winning his or her confidence; dupe.
n.
A swindle.
adj.
Of, relating to, or involving a swindle or fraud: a con artist; a con job.

Boxes hold items of various rarities, those rarities have been known by players. If you pick the wrong cup you still get an item. Not a con, a chance. And really wish people would stop putting RNG boxes into every single thread, it has its own threads, stop bleeding into every other one.

You’re joking right? F2P, B2P..same thing if you ask me, besides the initial purchase. The cash shops are the same..the unlocking of bag space..etc. I’ve never experienced an RNG box in a sub game. RNG in loot off bosses? Sure..but not RNG boxes, designed to get you to purchase as many as possible. You can hide it under the guise of having a chance all you want…if it was a sub game that chance would turn into you can get it by playing straight up.

Transmog gear (which are skins) in wow are locked behind content…like challenge mode dungeons and darkmoon festivities. In this game tho? You have to just keep buyion and buyin and buyin…or farming and farming and farming (isn’t that funny? You’re comeback will be about being able to obtain it in game…by contradicting all the other apologists about how this game isn’t about farming. lols)

If you think B2P=F2P I can’t help you. I’ve played far too many years of MMO’s to be ignorant to the differences in the models, but I’m not going to further derail someones threads so you can inject your RNG complaints into every discussion.

Intel i7 3.9ghz processor 16GB Ram 2TB HDD
Nvidia GTX 650 Win 7 64bit FFXI 4+yrs/Aion 4+ years Complete Noob~ Veteran OIF/OEF
http://everyonesgrudge.enjin.com/home MY GW2 Music http://tinyurl.com/cm4o6tu

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Posted by: dcypher.2590

dcypher.2590

What would you say are the advantages of having no sub fee and the disadvantages as well, especially in the context of GW2?

biggest con in a non sub game is RNG boxes

They are in F2P games as well as P2P games. Also:
con 4 (kn) Slang
tr.v. conned, con·ning, cons
To swindle (a victim) by first winning his or her confidence; dupe.
n.
A swindle.
adj.
Of, relating to, or involving a swindle or fraud: a con artist; a con job.

Boxes hold items of various rarities, those rarities have been known by players. If you pick the wrong cup you still get an item. Not a con, a chance. And really wish people would stop putting RNG boxes into every single thread, it has its own threads, stop bleeding into every other one.

You’re joking right? F2P, B2P..same thing if you ask me, besides the initial purchase. The cash shops are the same..the unlocking of bag space..etc. I’ve never experienced an RNG box in a sub game. RNG in loot off bosses? Sure..but not RNG boxes, designed to get you to purchase as many as possible. You can hide it under the guise of having a chance all you want…if it was a sub game that chance would turn into you can get it by playing straight up.

Transmog gear (which are skins) in wow are locked behind content…like challenge mode dungeons and darkmoon festivities. In this game tho? You have to just keep buyion and buyin and buyin…or farming and farming and farming (isn’t that funny? You’re comeback will be about being able to obtain it in game…by contradicting all the other apologists about how this game isn’t about farming. lols)

If you think B2P=F2P I can’t help you. I’ve played far too many years of MMO’s to be ignorant to the differences in the models, but I’m not going to further derail someones threads so you can inject your RNG complaints into every discussion.

Ok, you do that. While you’re at it go look through my post history before you point fingers about who is doing what. Makes you look like a fool.

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

What would you say are the advantages of having no sub fee and the disadvantages as well, especially in the context of GW2?

biggest con in a non sub game is RNG boxes

They are in F2P games as well as P2P games. Also:
con 4 (kn) Slang
tr.v. conned, con·ning, cons
To swindle (a victim) by first winning his or her confidence; dupe.
n.
A swindle.
adj.
Of, relating to, or involving a swindle or fraud: a con artist; a con job.

Boxes hold items of various rarities, those rarities have been known by players. If you pick the wrong cup you still get an item. Not a con, a chance. And really wish people would stop putting RNG boxes into every single thread, it has its own threads, stop bleeding into every other one.

Erm…you do realise people listing things in this thread as ‘cons’ mean negative aspects, as in pros and cons, not scams, right? No one has claimed that the RNG box, or any of the other ‘cons’ are a scam.

“In Latin “pros and cons” is a shortening of “pro et contra”, which means “for and against”.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pros_and_cons

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: Geotherma.2395

Geotherma.2395

What would you say are the advantages of having no sub fee and the disadvantages as well, especially in the context of GW2?

biggest con in a non sub game is RNG boxes

They are in F2P games as well as P2P games. Also:
con 4 (kn) Slang
tr.v. conned, con·ning, cons
To swindle (a victim) by first winning his or her confidence; dupe.
n.
A swindle.
adj.
Of, relating to, or involving a swindle or fraud: a con artist; a con job.

Boxes hold items of various rarities, those rarities have been known by players. If you pick the wrong cup you still get an item. Not a con, a chance. And really wish people would stop putting RNG boxes into every single thread, it has its own threads, stop bleeding into every other one.

You’re joking right? F2P, B2P..same thing if you ask me, besides the initial purchase. The cash shops are the same..the unlocking of bag space..etc. I’ve never experienced an RNG box in a sub game. RNG in loot off bosses? Sure..but not RNG boxes, designed to get you to purchase as many as possible. You can hide it under the guise of having a chance all you want…if it was a sub game that chance would turn into you can get it by playing straight up.

Transmog gear (which are skins) in wow are locked behind content…like challenge mode dungeons and darkmoon festivities. In this game tho? You have to just keep buyion and buyin and buyin…or farming and farming and farming (isn’t that funny? You’re comeback will be about being able to obtain it in game…by contradicting all the other apologists about how this game isn’t about farming. lols)

If you think B2P=F2P I can’t help you. I’ve played far too many years of MMO’s to be ignorant to the differences in the models, but I’m not going to further derail someones threads so you can inject your RNG complaints into every discussion.

Ok, you do that. While you’re at it go look through my post history before you point fingers about who is doing what. Makes you look like a fool.

I’m looking at your post in this thread, keep trying, done feeding the troll. Try posting something constructive without the word RNG Box in it. Not worth arguing with people who have little knowledge of what they speak of. Have fun.

Intel i7 3.9ghz processor 16GB Ram 2TB HDD
Nvidia GTX 650 Win 7 64bit FFXI 4+yrs/Aion 4+ years Complete Noob~ Veteran OIF/OEF
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Posted by: dcypher.2590

dcypher.2590

What would you say are the advantages of having no sub fee and the disadvantages as well, especially in the context of GW2?

biggest con in a non sub game is RNG boxes

They are in F2P games as well as P2P games. Also:
con 4 (kn) Slang
tr.v. conned, con·ning, cons
To swindle (a victim) by first winning his or her confidence; dupe.
n.
A swindle.
adj.
Of, relating to, or involving a swindle or fraud: a con artist; a con job.

Boxes hold items of various rarities, those rarities have been known by players. If you pick the wrong cup you still get an item. Not a con, a chance. And really wish people would stop putting RNG boxes into every single thread, it has its own threads, stop bleeding into every other one.

You’re joking right? F2P, B2P..same thing if you ask me, besides the initial purchase. The cash shops are the same..the unlocking of bag space..etc. I’ve never experienced an RNG box in a sub game. RNG in loot off bosses? Sure..but not RNG boxes, designed to get you to purchase as many as possible. You can hide it under the guise of having a chance all you want…if it was a sub game that chance would turn into you can get it by playing straight up.

Transmog gear (which are skins) in wow are locked behind content…like challenge mode dungeons and darkmoon festivities. In this game tho? You have to just keep buyion and buyin and buyin…or farming and farming and farming (isn’t that funny? You’re comeback will be about being able to obtain it in game…by contradicting all the other apologists about how this game isn’t about farming. lols)

If you think B2P=F2P I can’t help you. I’ve played far too many years of MMO’s to be ignorant to the differences in the models, but I’m not going to further derail someones threads so you can inject your RNG complaints into every discussion.

Ok, you do that. While you’re at it go look through my post history before you point fingers about who is doing what. Makes you look like a fool.

I’m looking at your post in this thread, keep trying, done feeding the troll. Try posting something constructive without the word RNG Box in it. Not worth arguing with people who have little knowledge of what they speak of. Have fun.

Wow you sound so intelligent, it’s blowing my mind. First, you accuse me of putting RNG in every thread on the forums..and then you claim to be only looking at this thread….

Why don’t you try this one on for size then… Non-sub games require you to purchase storage and character slots. Non-sub games take away any streamlined way of farming because they’d rather you buy the gold from them instead.

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Posted by: Mirta.5029

Mirta.5029

disadvantages- Gem store driven bland game, & brings in a whole playerbase that shouldn’t be playing MMO’s in the first place if they think $15/month is to much.

advantages-keeps game leeches in one place & happy, a generation that believes free=quality as long they don’t have to pay.

1. We already payed for the game, so it’s not “free”.
2. You’ll either have enough money to pay a sub fee or enough time to catch up with the gear progression in a game that has a sub fee. You can’t have both.
3. The age of the people playing this varies. Most of us were there for the sub based MMOs, some of us were here for the start of video games, so saying that it’s a generation is kind of wrong.
And if you like MMOs with a sub fee, why are you here?

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Posted by: Geotherma.2395

Geotherma.2395

Not every MMO falls under the same conditions, many vary so greatly that they can’t be lumped into one category or another. Many even change from their original concepts and thus push them into even more varied varieties. There are pros and cons to all of them, but because of the huge variety of differences it isn’t fair to state one is 100% this way or that way.

Intel i7 3.9ghz processor 16GB Ram 2TB HDD
Nvidia GTX 650 Win 7 64bit FFXI 4+yrs/Aion 4+ years Complete Noob~ Veteran OIF/OEF
http://everyonesgrudge.enjin.com/home MY GW2 Music http://tinyurl.com/cm4o6tu

No Subscription Fees: Pros and Cons

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Posted by: Geotherma.2395

Geotherma.2395

What would you say are the advantages of having no sub fee and the disadvantages as well, especially in the context of GW2?

biggest con in a non sub game is RNG boxes

They are in F2P games as well as P2P games. Also:
con 4 (kn) Slang
tr.v. conned, con·ning, cons
To swindle (a victim) by first winning his or her confidence; dupe.
n.
A swindle.
adj.
Of, relating to, or involving a swindle or fraud: a con artist; a con job.

Boxes hold items of various rarities, those rarities have been known by players. If you pick the wrong cup you still get an item. Not a con, a chance. And really wish people would stop putting RNG boxes into every single thread, it has its own threads, stop bleeding into every other one.

You’re joking right? F2P, B2P..same thing if you ask me, besides the initial purchase. The cash shops are the same..the unlocking of bag space..etc. I’ve never experienced an RNG box in a sub game. RNG in loot off bosses? Sure..but not RNG boxes, designed to get you to purchase as many as possible. You can hide it under the guise of having a chance all you want…if it was a sub game that chance would turn into you can get it by playing straight up.

Transmog gear (which are skins) in wow are locked behind content…like challenge mode dungeons and darkmoon festivities. In this game tho? You have to just keep buyion and buyin and buyin…or farming and farming and farming (isn’t that funny? You’re comeback will be about being able to obtain it in game…by contradicting all the other apologists about how this game isn’t about farming. lols)

If you think B2P=F2P I can’t help you. I’ve played far too many years of MMO’s to be ignorant to the differences in the models, but I’m not going to further derail someones threads so you can inject your RNG complaints into every discussion.

Ok, you do that. While you’re at it go look through my post history before you point fingers about who is doing what. Makes you look like a fool.

I’m looking at your post in this thread, keep trying, done feeding the troll. Try posting something constructive without the word RNG Box in it. Not worth arguing with people who have little knowledge of what they speak of. Have fun.

Wow you sound so intelligent, it’s blowing my mind. First, you accuse me of putting RNG in every thread on the forums..and then you claim to be only looking at this thread….

Why don’t you try this one on for size then… Non-sub games require you to purchase storage and character slots. Non-sub games take away any streamlined way of farming because they’d rather you buy the gold from them instead.

First, sub games do have costs involved in character additions etc, not all but some. Example-FFXI.

Your second reply is an opinion, not a fact, so I’ll leave it at that. But aside, not every game has a gem>cash/cash>gem converter or equivalent.

And for clarification of reading: “And really wish people would stop putting RNG boxes into every single thread, it has its own threads, stop bleeding into every other one.” Not EVERY person, but various people pushing it into almost every thread we see.

Intel i7 3.9ghz processor 16GB Ram 2TB HDD
Nvidia GTX 650 Win 7 64bit FFXI 4+yrs/Aion 4+ years Complete Noob~ Veteran OIF/OEF
http://everyonesgrudge.enjin.com/home MY GW2 Music http://tinyurl.com/cm4o6tu

(edited by Geotherma.2395)

No Subscription Fees: Pros and Cons

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Posted by: Karizee.8076

Karizee.8076

From my experience, sub games have horrendous gear grinds behind onerous time gates, before you actually get to play to keep players paying the fee longer. Things like weekly instance lockouts or weekly caps on points you can earn.

Most of them have vanity cash shop items also so it’s the same thing as a B2P game.

Never again paying a sub fee.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

It’s grindy to the point of depression. That’s a bad business model. Maybe that puts it down better to you.

This is also subjective. If you find inability to get a shiny now to be depressing, then I doubt you will get a better experience in P2P, because they do make people grind if they want to play every aspect of the game.

In case you’re not clear on the P2P grind I’m referring to, see Karizee’s post below mine.

(edited by IndigoSundown.5419)

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Posted by: Karizee.8076

Karizee.8076

From my experience, sub games have horrendous gear grinds behind onerous time gates, before you actually get to play to keep players paying the fee longer. Things like weekly instance lockouts or weekly caps on points you can earn.

I almost forgot item levels :P
In sub games you cannot play content until you’ve grinded for some months to attain a certain ilevel. This ilevel is of course gated behind RNG and the aforementioned weekly caps.

Ridiculously horrendous style of gaming.

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Posted by: SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453

SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453

How do you know I have a “shiny” or not? You know what? Next time you post another incessant and pompous reply and I don’t troll you… remember that. Think about it.

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Posted by: Palador.2170

Palador.2170

Someone that’s a game dev (NOT with ANet or anything else involving NCSoft) gave me this to think on:

Subscription games tend to have a steadier income. Once someone is subscribed, the easy thing to do is stay subscribed. In a game supported by a store, the easy thing to do is to NOT break out the credit card and buy stuff all the time.

So, F2P and B2P based games need to focus on the store. They need to put big, flashy stuff in there so people will go through the effort and actually buy it. When it comes to profits, the store drives the game.

In a subscription game, the game itself is what drives the game. They can afford to take a few risks, as it takes more to make people not give them money. This can allow devs more room to take risks with new things, and allows them to spend time focusing on the game, not on things that they hope you’ll pay more money for.

The death of the P2P model makes it harder for new, innovative games to get out there and stay afloat. No, being P2P does NOT mean that a game’s going to be good, but P2P gives the devs more chances to deliver a good game, instead of just a good cash shop.

Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.

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Posted by: dcypher.2590

dcypher.2590

I think people are confusing grinding in sub games with farming in this game. You need to farm, whether it be mats or gold to obtain their carrot on a stick. In sub games, you need to grind out content..dungeons..raids..etc. I’d rather have the latter. Tho I guess you can make the argument that CoF farm runs are technically grinding out a dungeon even tho you skip most of it because what matters doesn’t come off bosses.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

How do you know I have a “shiny” or not? You know what? Next time you post another incessant and pompous reply and I don’t troll you… remember that. Think about it.

I have no idea what you have. I suspect you want a Legendary or other hard-to-get skin. If I’m wrong, I apologize. If I am wrong, I have no idea what you find grindy, because those are the the only things players cannot get rather easily in this game.

I remember when grind meant being forced to do stuff over and over in order to progress to the next part of a game, like grinding mob kill XP for level after level because there were no quests, or putting raids on farm for week after week until the raid group had the gear to move on. I guess the term has mutated over time.

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Posted by: Uruz Six.6594

Uruz Six.6594

I’ll just repeat what I posted to Massively a few days ago:

“…the real heart of the issue: That the school kids that grew up on UO or WoW grew up, got jobs, bought homes, started a family, and don’t have the time to commit to MMORPGs like they used to. And the next generation of school kids now have hundreds of MMO options including not-so-Massivelies like MOBAs, Minecraft, and the DayZ mod. The market that spawned UO, DAoC, and WoW just isn’t there anymore.”

Skoryy, sylvari thief: “Act now, figure out ‘with wisdom’ later.”
Nanuchka, norn mesmer: “BOOZEAHOL!”
Tarnished Coast – Still Here, El Guapo!

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Posted by: scerevisiae.1972

scerevisiae.1972

The biggest issue I see with B2P is the company has far less incentive to listen to players and to upgrade their game regularly. Once they have your money, why should they care about you? In fact, to maximise their profits they’re better off if you stop playing.

Eg: who can truly say the whole ascended items thing was not a carefully calculated move to kitten off a chunk of their casual player-base in order to reduce operational costs, as well as introduce grind for more hardcore players who are likely to spend money in the cash shop?

It is certain that in a B2P game, your value as a customer is entirely spent in the moment of purchase, whereas a P2P they need to work to retain your business.

Something I certainly can see with GW2 vs other P2P games – the pace of development here is really slow and players are rarely listened to. There have been posts with 1K+ posts here since release about various aspects of the game that should be changed. These are routinely ignored and rarely even responded to.

Not saying B2P is bad, only that there are definite downsides as well as upsides and you’d be foolish to pretend otherwise.

downed state is bad for PVP

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

The biggest issue I see with B2P is the company has far less incentive to listen to players and to upgrade their game regularly. Once they have your money, why should they care about you? In fact, to maximise their profits they’re better off if you stop playing.

Except for that annoying cash shop. In which case they want as many people around as possible because only a certain % will ever use a cash shop for boosters and and not for win items.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Tru Reptile.6058

Tru Reptile.6058

After playing FF11 and WoW, sub fees aren’t worth it IMO. Forking out $15 a month in the hopes that the content being developed is relevant to my interests is a huge gamble. I don’t care about The Living Story crap, and will never do it, but I don’t feel bad because I didn’t pay for it.

If developers feel their MMO needs a sub, then things like character name changes, server transfers, expansions, and any other services should be included in that fee. Even then I still probably wouldn’t pay.

(edited by Tru Reptile.6058)

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Posted by: Villious.8530

Villious.8530

Someone that’s a game dev (NOT with ANet or anything else involving NCSoft) gave me this to think on:

Subscription games tend to have a steadier income. Once someone is subscribed, the easy thing to do is stay subscribed. In a game supported by a store, the easy thing to do is to NOT break out the credit card and buy stuff all the time.

So, F2P and B2P based games need to focus on the store. They need to put big, flashy stuff in there so people will go through the effort and actually buy it. When it comes to profits, the store drives the game.

In a subscription game, the game itself is what drives the game. They can afford to take a few risks, as it takes more to make people not give them money. This can allow devs more room to take risks with new things, and allows them to spend time focusing on the game, not on things that they hope you’ll pay more money for.

The death of the P2P model makes it harder for new, innovative games to get out there and stay afloat. No, being P2P does NOT mean that a game’s going to be good, but P2P gives the devs more chances to deliver a good game, instead of just a good cash shop.

Well written, logical post……and from a horses mouth (so to speak).

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Posted by: Nuka Cola.8520

Nuka Cola.8520

Pros: Im playing the game. If it had a monthly fee i would’ve never even bothered trying gw2

Cons: Crappy monthly content/updates

Fact: every Thief tells you to “l2p” when the subject is to nerf stealth.