Guild Wars 2

Finally a MMO, were I can breathe, were I am not getting out geared by people who play more than me. Finally a MMO with an actual narrative ending. The other MMOs I played didn’t launch with a story that concluded.

It’s funny. Not being forced to do something, strangely enough encourages me to want to play more. In prior MMOs were the carrot-on-a-stick was uber-gear that dropped from long repetitive dungeon crawls fueled by players spamming their stupid rotations, made me not want to participate.

It took very few hours once I had gotten to lvl 80 to buy my exotic (max stats) armor from the TP, and then transmuted it, and bought some nice dye, to get the coolest looking character I’ve ever had in a RPG.

I can put this game on the shelf, or play a little without, a subscription fee or worrying about my friends outgearing me a month from now. Gear treadmill is terrible and exhausting and feels like a second job.

I love that the carrot in GW2 is optional. I don’t think a legendary at this point is viable, but it’s more fun to pursue when you are not being forced to do it. Nobody likes to be forced to do something just to be competitive in the pvp sphere, or to be allowed by the community to run the content.

I hope they will make semi legendary armors and weapons. Mid long term tangible rewards to work towards. And I hope working for those will require me to run through some of my favorite zones levelling up, like Arathi highlands (centaur genocide!!)

“I can put this game on the shelf, or play a little without, a subscription fee or worrying about my friends outgearing me a month from now. Gear treadmill is terrible and exhausting and feels like a second job.”

Amen, brother. Wholeheartedly agreed.

I feel the same way. That’s why I look forward to playing this for a looong time. No pressure, no mindless grind. Skill beats gear. It’s a good place to be.

Cheers!

I’m glad you voiced your thoughts OP.
I just hope that ArenaNet will prove wiser than your average game company
and build the game such that it’ll last for many many many years and that in the
end, should there come a GW3, that you’ll be able to transfer something from your
GW2 adventures too. So it’s like a lineage you can build or what have you. So each game feels like part of the puzzle and not 1 seperate entity.

I think so too, but strangely enough, I can’t stop playing…

GW2 is actually what we’ve been waiting to see for years, a MMO that is meant to be played for fun rather than being another field where companies produce and cultivate OCD game addicts.

I love that this is a game where I don’t feel guilty for not playing every day. I love even more that it’s a game that I want to play every day!

Well I really hope you know the difference between optional carrots and mandatory ones.

Carrots are great and this game needs more of them.

Legendaries are a carrot.

@Knote,

I wholeheartedly agree with you. The only optional long term carrot is Legendaries for players who have reached 80. I do not want the game to become something that people just log on to because they felt like it. I want people to be really hooked with the Gw2 universe….and that requires many carrots.

@Sad Swordfish.9743: Agreed. This is the type of game I’ve been waiting for. A game that you can take breaks from to do other things without feeling you lose out on points, items or something else.

Aslong as they bring some optional carrots to the table I’m happy. It’s always good with carrots, aslong as they arent mandatory to keep playing or being competative.

I just love GW2!

In terms that the OP is using with Carrot = Endgame gear grind, I can’t agree more. I do however think it’s a great idea to add in more (OPTIONAL) fluff items or achievements be that in the way of skins, mounts, non-combat pets, housing or guildhalls.

The game is just bloody fun to play and I can’t set it down.

Well, there is a little carrot on a stick(a very tiny one) that makes you work slightly to deck yourself out in max stat armor and weapons, but I don’t mind that. GW1 had that too with their inherent mods you couldn’t change and had to buy or play long enough to get one of the most “optimal” ones. I’m only saying that because I haven’t had a max-statted(pardon the bad English) item drop yet on me, but with three maxed crafting professions it’s easy to build your own.

Hey OP! You hit the feelings of every player (not being annoying by bugs ofcourse).
But my believe is there is a company called (you know) let people play and pay every month in wich ArenaNet is doing a very well job.
A company that seems to love balancing classes every month lol, it is gonna get their lifestyle i think. Well they are being payed every month to figure out balance etc.
Fanbois are loving and hating it but cant leave it……..And im NOT talking about Arenanet in this matter.

Just my 5 cts.

I’m almost done with one of three dungeon sets I want for different spec set ups.

I’m nowhere near thinking about even starting the legendary grind yet.

I want to grind out some gold to buy gems for account upgrades.

I’d like to level up and gear some alts when all that is done.

If those aren’t carrots, I don’t know what is.

But still being a MMO and if you’re in a guild, taking a break for a few months, then coming back basically makes you a stranger. The OP is right. You don’t have to play constantly, but sad to say, there isn’t enough content to make you want to play for months on end. Other MMOs I’ve liked, I played for well over 6 months minimum to years. I’ve really enjoyed playing GW2, but I “beat it” after just about 1 month of casual play. Got my Necro to 80. Now, all there is to do run a dungeon around 40 times to get a set of gear that actually looks good and for what…to go WvW, since that’s really the only good you’ll see out of it. And with the terrible draw in problems, WvW is just a mess anyway.

Vlaxitov.5693:

I’m almost done with one of three dungeon sets I want for different spec set ups.

I’m nowhere near thinking about even starting the legendary grind yet.

I want to grind out some gold to buy gems for account upgrades.

I’d like to level up and gear some alts when all that is done.

If those aren’t carrots, I don’t know what is.

The point the OP was making is that these carrots are optional. GW2 doesn’t have a huge gear gap between their tiers like so many other games so we aren’t forced to constantly upgrade to stay afloat. We can drop and pick it up as we feel, and that’s a really great thing. Games shouldn’t be like jobs.

I agree! There is so much less elitism in this game because those ‘required’ carrots don’t exist. It reminds me of when I first picked up GW1 and just enjoyed exploring and trying to get all bonus objectives on missions. Eventually I got ‘elite’ gear, but the only reason to get it was because I wanted it, not because I needed it to access a particular dungeon or keep up with the ‘status-quo’.

I find the game stale and frankly boring as hell once you hit 80, leveling was fun the first time though.

I hear what you guys are saying and agree to an extent but the double-edged sword is that their really isn’t any incentive to play after lvl 80. Especially if you don’t PVP.

Under the above reasoning one has to ask… what is the point of getting to level 80 if there is nothing to do once you get there?

Loot, rewards, incentives? Like it or not these are the things that keep the vast majority of people playing.

I love the fact that I can chase my own carrots, I am not forced by the game to get the golden carrot ;P
I can just set my own goals- it is sooo liberating.
I can play however I want and still be useful and competitive.
Now I get stuff I want- I can completely ignore the stuff I don’t want- AC I’m looking at you ;P

Sad Swordfish.9743:

It’s funny. Not being forced to do something, strangely enough encourages me to want to play more. In prior MMOs were the carrot-on-a-stick was uber-gear that dropped from long repetitive dungeon crawls fueled by players spamming their stupid rotations, made me not want to participate.

I feel exactly the same way. In other games I would often lose interest and quit even before max level, because I knew there was nothing for me to do once I got there. Here, I can play when I want and not worry about falling behind or not being able to pvp without being far behind the curve.

Agree with mostly everyone here.

Carrots are good, but the fact that it’s not mandatory to chase one to participate in content is even better. Still, rewards are important, and I can’t wait to see what sort of other rewards Anet’s looking to dish out other than cosmetic gear. (this is why we need mounts :O)

OP

I can put this game on the shelf, or play a little without, a subscription fee or worrying about my friends outgearing me a month from now. Gear treadmill is terrible and exhausting and feels like a second job.

This is what got me from The Secret World. Every time I had free time, but I didn’t feel like playing, I felt guilty, like I was wasting money.

It’s what I really liked about Guild Wars 1, and I can enjoy once again in Guild Wars 2.

It makes YOU not want to participate. But you know, there’s a reason why WoW has been, and will continue to be the biggest and most successful MMO.

GW2 will not even have a fraction of the players, nor will it have made a single percent of the amount $$ WoW has. All because there is absolutely nothing to do after 300-400hrs when you have full exotics and full map completion.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Finally a MMO, were I can breathe, were I am not getting out geared by people who play more than me. Finally a MMO with an actual narrative ending. The other MMOs I played didn’t launch with a story that concluded.

It’s funny. Not being forced to do something, strangely enough encourages me to want to play more. In prior MMOs were the carrot-on-a-stick was uber-gear that dropped from long repetitive dungeon crawls fueled by players spamming their stupid rotations, made me not want to participate.

It took very few hours once I had gotten to lvl 80 to buy my exotic (max stats) armor from the TP, and then transmuted it, and bought some nice dye, to get the coolest looking character I’ve ever had in a RPG.

I can put this game on the shelf, or play a little without, a subscription fee or worrying about my friends outgearing me a month from now. Gear treadmill is terrible and exhausting and feels like a second job.

I love that the carrot in GW2 is optional. I don’t think a legendary at this point is viable, but it’s more fun to pursue when you are not being forced to do it. Nobody likes to be forced to do something just to be competitive in the pvp sphere, or to be allowed by the community to run the content.

I hope they will make semi legendary armors and weapons. Mid long term tangible rewards to work towards. And I hope working for those will require me to run through some of my favorite zones levelling up, like Arathi highlands (centaur genocide!!)

Just want to add that I agree with this post 100% and feel the exact same way. Thanks for posting this.

EXAR.7963:

I hear what you guys are saying and agree to an extent but the double-edged sword is that their really isn’t any incentive to play after lvl 80. Especially if you don’t PVP.

Under the above reasoning one has to ask… what is the point of getting to level 80 if there is nothing to do once you get there?

Loot, rewards, incentives? Like it or not these are the things that keep the vast majority of people playing.

It depends on if you view things as journey or the destination. If I had fun doing something, I don’t feel like I need to ask what was the point?

Whats the point of life if all you do is die? I think the answer is that you, simply enjoy things while doing them and try to live in the now, instead of always thinking in terms of predicting the future, or whatever. Be present now. If you don’t feel like anything to do at lvl 80, just play some other games until they make new stuff.:)

Ambrosiaa.6054:

It makes YOU not want to participate. But you know, there’s a reason why WoW has been, and will continue to be the biggest and most successful MMO.

GW2 will not even have a fraction of the players, nor will it have made a single percent of the amount $$ WoW has. All because there is absolutely nothing to do after 300-400hrs when you have full exotics and full map completion.

Most people I know personally who still engage in these types of games are very pessimistic and bitter about those games end games.

I believe a game with an ending, a logical and more laid out ending point is better than the forever-never style of WoW. The complains I hear is that the raids and mechanics are all the same, they just tweak the damage and hp. I believe the reason for that WoW won’t give you an actual ending is because they don’t want you to stop playing enough for you to cancels your subscription.

There is almost an element of real life capitalism in some of these MMOs, of people not wanting to play or participate if they do not get anything out of it. I’ve never been a completionist type person, but I’ve found more challenge in pursuing the 100% world completion, doing the jumping puzzles and completing the WvW maps that I’ve had in any other MMO ever.

ArenaNet doesn’t mind us exhausting the content and then doing dungeons, Orr, WvW until we don’t like it anymore.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

EXAR.7963:

I hear what you guys are saying and agree to an extent but the double-edged sword is that their really isn’t any incentive to play after lvl 80. Especially if you don’t PVP.

Under the above reasoning one has to ask… what is the point of getting to level 80 if there is nothing to do once you get there?

Loot, rewards, incentives? Like it or not these are the things that keep the vast majority of people playing.

It depends on if you view things as journey or the destination. If I had fun doing something, I don’t feel like I need to ask what was the point?

Whats the point of life if all you do is die? I think the answer is that you, simply enjoy things while doing them and try to live in the now, instead of always thinking in terms of predicting the future, or whatever. Be present now. If you don’t feel like anything to do at lvl 80, just play some other games until they make new stuff.:)

Ambrosiaa.6054:

It makes YOU not want to participate. But you know, there’s a reason why WoW has been, and will continue to be the biggest and most successful MMO.

GW2 will not even have a fraction of the players, nor will it have made a single percent of the amount $$ WoW has. All because there is absolutely nothing to do after 300-400hrs when you have full exotics and full map completion.

Most people I know personally who still engage in these types of games are very pessimistic and bitter about those games end games.

I believe a game with an ending, a logical and more laid out ending point is better than the forever-never style of WoW. The complains I hear is that the raids and mechanics are all the same, they just tweak the damage and hp. I believe the reason for that WoW won’t give you an actual ending is because they don’t want you to stop playing enough for you to cancels your subscription.

There is almost an element of real life capitalism in some of these MMOs, of people not wanting to play or participate if they do not get anything out of it. I’ve never been a completionist type person, but I’ve found more challenge in pursuing the 100% world completion, doing the jumping puzzles and completing the WvW maps that I’ve had in any other MMO ever.

ArenaNet doesn’t mind us exhausting the content and then doing dungeons, Orr, WvW until we don’t like it anymore.

Yes, the i have to admit that the journey was very, very enjoyable. But the thing is like i said, 400hours is more than enough to do have done every single thing GW2 has to offer, and it won’t really be fun again to do it a second time.

What does this remind you of? Single player games of course. If i wanted a finishing point, a single player game like Skyrim of half life would have satisfied me as much.

The reason most people play MMO games is for the constant progression. People like to feel that their efforts are paying off, making their character stronger. Believe it or not, a little bit of grinding can actually make a game fun. GW2 has none of that. It’s just a glorified single player game IMO.

EXAR.7963:

Loot, rewards, incentives? Like it or not these are the things that keep the vast majority of people playing.

Even if the “vast majority” needs that gear carrot to keep playing, I would not want that for GW2. I am perfectly fine with GW2 being a niche game, same as GW1. Let those who do not enjoy the gear treadmill play GW2, and let the rest play every other MMO out there. Because honestly, if you do not like the gear thingy, you don’t have a lot of MMO’s to choose from.

Gear inflation is bad.
Restrictive PvE with artificial barriers to entry is bad.

However, these things are not the only carrots or methods to acquire them.

So carrots that are not these things are good, and more of them are welcome.

The carrot still arround, just change its form, its disguised, as the holy trinity or the “old quest system” or even the “long booring grind”. They just morphed, into something far more fun, but still there.

The problem is that in games there is a lot of types of people. Among these types, most seem to be play for fun gamers, that just play for fun, not anything else, they do things that makes them happy and then leave, they dont think much about the mechanics involving those activities or the psychology behind their behavior, they just have fun.

And there is the progresist gamers, that like to archive things, completionist that like to have all in the game and competitors, that like to show their supremacy (through skills, equipment, time invesment, or the most common, forum warfare). And there is NOT a single game on the MMO market that can make this 2 opposite poles live together…

Why would this game be different? Is obviusly more focused to “fun for fun” gamers, casuals or semihardcore, EVEN hardcore games that don`t like gear treadmill games… And the most hard debate here is the “incentive” so unclear, so metaphysich, so abstract…

Do we need an incentive to do things? What kind of incentive is a good incentive? Grind overpowered gear, pwn the face of the others, have fun just cause its fun, not having an incentive is a good incentive? There is not a single awnser for this question, and mostly not a single game ever would awnser to everyone, just as not even the ninth symphony is considered for everyone as the most perfect thing mankind as ever produced…

Its our nature, to not like anything, there is always a “but” in there, we search for perfection, but we will never archive it… So does this game. Trying to aim to everyone, not hiting anything… Yet.

GW2 is just as much spamming rotations as any other MMO. Only exception is it lacks actual challenging content which requires teamwork between 10+ people, and lacks competitive PvP, and lacks any community. Sorry but GW2 has been a huge disappointment.

Well my guild died and friends left because of no carrot.
Poor endgame.

Will your friends be here when you get back? That is the issue Anet must deal with.

Narkosys.5173:

Well my guild died and friends left because of no carrot.
Poor endgame.

Will your friends be here when you get back? That is the issue Anet must deal with.

MY friends will be. Because they, like me, enjoy a carrotfree game. As I said before, this game simply is not for everyone. Doesn’t mean it’s a bad game. It simply means that it’s a niche game, and that is fine as well.

Narkosys.5173:

Well my guild died and friends left because of no carrot.
Poor endgame.

Will your friends be here when you get back? That is the issue Anet must deal with.

Why would a game programing company deal with you and your friends leaving cause you weren`t having fun to do something that is more fun? It`s like a fisherman dealing with you and your friends cause you dont like fish.

Alexander Dragonfang.1759:

Kooglie.7380:

GW2 is just as much spamming rotations as any other MMO. Only exception is it lacks actual challenging content which requires teamwork between 10+ people, and lacks competitive PvP, and lacks any community. Sorry but GW2 has been a huge disappointment FOR ME.

Fix`d

Not fix’d. GW2 was supposed to blow our socks off. Become the CLEAR CUT #1 MMO, the WoW Killer. It’s a good game, some people love it some don’t just like any other, but looking at the high volume of responses so soon after release that people were upset with the game really leads to it not living up to bold predictions. The release reminds me like a baby version of Diablo 3s horrid release.

Very well said, Op. I agree

Alexander Dragonfang.1759:

Narkosys.5173:

Well my guild died and friends left because of no carrot.
Poor endgame.

Will your friends be here when you get back? That is the issue Anet must deal with.

Why would a game programing company deal with you and your friends leaving cause you weren`t having fun to do something that is more fun? It`s like a fisherman dealing with you and your friends cause you dont like fish.

Also quit trolling, let people have their own opinion. Just because you are in love with the game doesn’t mean others are.

You do know that the only ones who said it was going to be a WoW killer were either a) crazy fanbois or b) disillusioned Wowers hoping for a new fix, because the devs themselves actually said “nothing can kill wow but wow itself”.

Never believe hypes, it always makes you disappointed.

Kooglie.7380:

GW2 was supposed to blow our socks off. Become the CLEAR CUT #1 MMO, the WoW Killer.

Quote that from any mayor member of NCsoft or Anet, and show a screen of the papers you put your name on. You can`t? Another hiperhyped dissapointed gamer.

Kooglie.7380:

Alexander Dragonfang.1759:

Narkosys.5173:

Well my guild died and friends left because of no carrot.
Poor endgame.

Will your friends be here when you get back? That is the issue Anet must deal with.

Why would a game programing company deal with you and your friends leaving cause you weren`t having fun to do something that is more fun? It`s like a fisherman dealing with you and your friends cause you dont like fish.

Also quit trolling, let people have their own opinion. Just because you are in love with the game doesn’t mean others are.

Im not trolling, im just correcting you so your opinion looks like what it is, an opinion. And im not in love with the game, maybe im in love with my rythlock, but not the whole game…

Advice for life: NEVER EVER buy a thing cause people claim to be the exact oposite or the new better faster stronger harder thing, you DONT buy a BWW cause is NOT a Ferrari, you DONT eat pizza cause is NOT a hot-dog. You DONT buy a game cause is NOT that game.

Ambrosiaa.6054:

Yes, the i have to admit that the journey was very, very enjoyable. But the thing is like i said, 400hours is more than enough to do have done every single thing GW2 has to offer, and it won’t really be fun again to do it a second time.

What does this remind you of? Single player games of course. If i wanted a finishing point, a single player game like Skyrim of half life would have satisfied me as much.

The reason most people play MMO games is for the constant progression. People like to feel that their efforts are paying off, making their character stronger. Believe it or not, a little bit of grinding can actually make a game fun. GW2 has none of that. It’s just a glorified single player game IMO.

Well, you need to keep your own play style in perspective. Most players…in fact the vast majority, don’t come anywhere close to playing games 200+ hours a month. Therefore, if we accept your premise that the game launched with 400 hours of really fun play (I actually think it’s much more than that), then we’re talking about 4-6 months’ worth of content or more for an average player.

Then consider the fact that they are adding additional content starting next week. Most players will likely never exhaust all the fun play, because ArenaNet will be adding more faster than the average player consumes it.

Because of this, adding a gear progression treadmill for that very small minority of players who devote massive numbers of hours per month to the game…would be (and has been in previous games) a fairly massive waste of resources for the developer. Continually creating content and new time sinks to try and keep the super-consumers happy has always been a failed concept. For those who don’t enjoy the type of play that GW2 offers, I seriously doubt that any addition of a treadmill would make them enjoy the game in the long-term. If you like playing GW2, there’s a TON of content that will likely never run out for the average player. If you don’t like playing GW2, I’m not sure why you’d want to continue playing.

I disagree that most players play MMORPGs for constant progression. Or at least I disagree that most players WANT to play these games for constant progression. I think they have played for constant progression in the past, simply because that’s all that has been offered. It was a very limiting choice – either keep up with the Joneses in order to continue to enjoy new content, or else quit. As is evident from many of the responses in this thread (with which I whole-heartedly agree), there are plenty of players who have been waiting a long time for a game like this, and are thoroughly enjoying it now that it’s arrived.

Gear progression endgame not only forces players into a play style they may not enjoy, but it forces them into a culture and community they may not wish to be a part of (the militaristic raiding culture of guilds and competition, etc). It creates a massive divide between the players willing to follow the required play style and those who choose not to. It causes all previous content and game world space to be trivial, and turns the open world of most MMOPRGs into a ghost town. I’m very glad GW2 is doing it differently. I’m really excited to see the content they will be adding, and all the things there are to do and see…all of which are open to me as a player, without changing my “wander and explore and do a bit of everything” play style.

Fozzik,

Did you.. did you just read my mind? I need a thicker tin foil hat..

Ambrosiaa.6054:

there is absolutely nothing to do after 300-400hrs when you have full exotics and full map completion.

sure there is! wait for more exotics to grind and more map to complete! just like you do when you are done with every other game you play…

Kooglie.7380:

GW2 is just as much spamming rotations as any other MMO. Only exception is it lacks actual challenging content which requires teamwork between 10+ people, and lacks competitive PvP, and lacks any community. Sorry but GW2 has been a huge disappointment.

No way. When I am in a explorable dungeons, it takes the most of me, switching between weapon sets, accuring the correct runes for my shout builds, healing myself, trying to get conditions off me, having the responsible of rezzing, dodging constantly, always dodging or trying to kill the line of sight by hiding behind objects, switching back to other weapon sets. For that a lot there is no spamming rotation, as you swap your skill bar constantly.

I get more of my own skill here, than any MMO I’ve played before. I don’t claim to be an amazing player but I am pretty sure, that a lot of skill is required in PvP.

Narkosys.5173:

Well my guild died and friends left because of no carrot.
Poor endgame.

Will your friends be here when you get back? That is the issue Anet must deal with.

Most people in my guild are adults, and they have a lot of other stuff going on in their lives. They are here because this is not like World of Warcraft, and they don’t want to a second job just to have fun doing WvW.

In other MMOs I had to grind the same content to get better stats

In GW2 I have to grind the same content to get gear that looks cooler than my older gear

I don’t know why some people think one is better or worse than the other, to me it’s the same.

Kooglie.7380:

Alexander Dragonfang.1759:

Kooglie.7380:

GW2 is just as much spamming rotations as any other MMO. Only exception is it lacks actual challenging content which requires teamwork between 10+ people, and lacks competitive PvP, and lacks any community. Sorry but GW2 has been a huge disappointment FOR ME.

Fix`d

Not fix’d. GW2 was supposed to blow our socks off. Become the CLEAR CUT #1 MMO, the WoW Killer. It’s a good game, some people love it some don’t just like any other, but looking at the high volume of responses so soon after release that people were upset with the game really leads to it not living up to bold predictions. The release reminds me like a baby version of Diablo 3s horrid release.

I want to make it clear – That ArenaNet has never said they intended to “kill WoW”. They never tried to beat WoW or offer the same thing.

They wanted to make a MMO building on the philosophy of Guild Wars 1. That philosophy was making a game that encouraged skill > time investment, thus not having the mandatory-carrot-on-a-stick of raid-or-die mentality, with no OMG NEW UBER ARMOR every 3th month.

That was what Jeff Strain intended.
—-

They wanted to make a game you could log in and play for 5 minutes. they have no interest or investment in keeping players occupied for 8-15 hours every day.

Two things happen when you do that;
1) content gets fleshed out so quickly it becomes meaningless and poor. you suffer quality to make vast quanitites of grinding content to just waste players time.
2) you make a barrier between players who play little versus who plays a lot.

If you look at other games like WoW, you will see that they have their fans who love their style. Nothing wrong with being a raider and seeing validation in stats on gears as a instant-win.
But Guild Wars 1 was an escape from that. And 7 million players bought that series of games and hopefully quite a few of them also enjoyed it. GW2 doesn’t need to be like that. It doesn’t make it dissappointing because it was never the intent.

I know lots of people in RL who hated MMOs for their time wasting and and time consuming qualities. GW2 is not as longly durationed, but it doesn’t waste the players time by exerting or extending the progression towards the end game, which always should be optional and not feel like a job or get hammered down someones throat.

People you see complaining over lack of end game, are complaining over their own projections, which has nothing to do with reality. ArenaNet never spoke much about end game, and this concluded a lot of people on Guru, Reddit and Neogaf, that meant that they would have limited content.
but they delivered a lot of the things they said they would, in terms of end game. Observer mode, mini games, mobile app and a few other things aside, GW2 has delivered more on realease than I can remember any MMO do for a very long time.

@ Cerise: It’s the same with one difference: cooler looking stuff does not let you beat the living kitten out of players who might be better than you, but simply don’t have the time to grind as much as you do. (time>skill)

In other words: if you want to compete in GW2, you don’t have to grind. In other games it’s not if you want to compete.

There is no MUST in the grind. I alone decide if the looks are worth grinding for. If they’re not, I don’t have to bother and I can still enjoy all aspects of the game AND be competetive.

Well,

Optional carrots;

people have speculated on semi-tier legendary armors and weapons. A new tier of unique items that are not as extreme or time consuming, as the current Legendary Weapons.
——

Others have talked about end-game PvE. A valid discussion to have is about Orr, and how fun those three zones are. How do you make a zone and bosses that are fun to fight?
Do you let players obtain towns, or hold lands, or leave their mark in some way? How do you give them impact in the PvE world and let guilds bolster their supremacy?
——
WvW is a wonderful game system, but it of course have bugs and problems and balancing issues that will take time to fix. It’s obviously a catalyst for both PvE and PvP, and it’s a big component of the current end game. But it’s separated from the open world, and some PvE players do not want to do PvE activities, and events in the Mists because of fear of getting killed by players.
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Another optional carrot could be guild houses. ArenaNet have hinted on that they have something planned. Could this be en an expansion on the home instance, or the idea of a guild capital airship that floats above the world? Could it be open zones in Cantha or Elona were players can just plant their guild halls in a sandbox SWG style world?
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Another carrot could be the decking of the home instanced. A lot of people were wondering how big an impact the home instance would have, and I think some people were sad to see how little they could change.
I always imagined it would be like animal crossing, of recruiting your own people, designing your houses, helping the people in your district. Skies of Arcadia-ish. (brilliant game).
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I harvested some carrots and I picked up a stick, Mystic Forge here I come!

On a serious note: In other, more competitive progression games I’ve just never seen the point in worrying about who got further faster. Here I feel we were just given everything too easily and I’m left wanting more.

What Fozzik said!

Having been driven out of my last two MMOs by the cancerous spread of gear progression, I can only hope that this refuge manages to stay free.