Guild Wars 2

Grind the Silverwastes for a chance at getting 1000g drops
Grind fractals for a chance at the fractal tonic
Grind fractals for a chance at the fractal weapon skins

Grind the Silverwastes for a chance at getting into the beta

So fed up of this.

Anet does grind very well, I admit, but then most MMOs have plenty of it overall.

Broken Arietta.4631:

So fed up of this.

Then… stop?

~20G for near-best gear in PvE/WvW (except for high-level Fractals)
Free best ‘gear’ in PvP

So much grind!

Broken Arietta.4631:

Grind the Silverwastes for a chance at getting 1000g drops
Grind fractals for a chance at the fractal tonic
Grind fractals for a chance at the fractal weapon skins

Grind the Silverwastes for a chance at getting into the beta

So fed up of this.

Think this has come up a few times already, but here’s my take: grind – mandatory, needed for progress (level grinding, gear grinding etc). Farming – optional, needed to gain items not necessary for progression (skins, tonic etc.).
So you’re farming not grinding.

From your list i can tell you only call the grind upon yourself. You want skins tonics and probably a precursor so yeah, it is a “grind” aka fighting rngesus.

Of course, farming can FEEL like grinding if the drop rate for the item you want is very low or the costs for something you want are very high.

As long as you can work directly towards something by farming for the item you like (when the drop-rate is doable) and you mix it in with other items you be rewarded directly by completing something (like completing a dungeon or some quest) it’s still oke.

Problem in GW2 is that most things are grind, grind, grind gold and then buy it. That gets extremely boring and devalutates the item. Then you can have the best movement system of any mmo and come with many other interesting and innovating things. This part of the game will stay boring.

The tonic would imho be one of the better ‘ways’ to have farms in a game (while still, direct ways of obtaining items is the best, some farming will always be there for re-playability) because you would be able to directly work towards it without the gold grind in the way. But the problem here is that it has drop-rate of about 1 / 344 and its time-gated because it drops from the daily chest. So after you reach level 41 you would still need to do Fractals every day for over half a year to have a 1 / 2 drop chance. What makes it go over the top after-all making it indeed just another boring grind.

It’s really sad that for many cosmetics these grinds (and then mainly gold grinds) are what GW2 is about. It’s funny that when talking about this specific element of the game, when I say I prefer cosmetics over stats and I like to hunt them down or collect them people say “well maybe this game is not for you” and for this part of the game that is true I guess.

But the sad part is, that it should be my game. You make a game all about cosmetics that you promote with a no grind philosophy, where stats are less of a thing… and then make those cosmetics a boring grind, meaning the game is not really for people who like to collect or hunt down these cosmetics if they are not the type of people who like to brainlessly grind all day.

I get the thinking process from a commercial viewpoint. Attract people who like cosmetics and dislike grind. Then make that part a grind (the excuse is then that there is no grind for stats so then that grind does not count.. whatever) then give a players the option to skip the grind by spending money.
The only problem is that that only works very well for a while.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Of course, farming can FEEL like grinding if the drop rate for the item you want is very low or the costs for something you want are very high.

And when the task are boring (while a good reward can reduce that a little), and when there is a similar grind for the next item you like, and the next, and the next and the next.

none.9681:

~20G for near-best gear in PvE/WvW (except for high-level Fractals)
Free best ‘gear’ in PvP

So much grind!

But then again, who cares for near-best gear?

My point is, you might but for other BiS gear is something they don’t care about. They care about cosmetics, skins, toys. Basically the things this game focuses on. You could say, for them, near-best gear is not defined by stats but by looks.

People who leave comments like you do seem to think stats is what it’s all about and should be all about for everybody, but thats simply not how it works in an MMO. Many people care more for a cool looking mini then ascended stats.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Anet does grind very well, I admit, but then most MMOs have plenty of it overall.

other mmos add new content and then rewards to make playing it not only fun (if it is fun), but also rewarding.

Anet adds new rewards to old content so you keep playing the same thing over and over and over again. And on top of that Anet gets to bash other games for being grindy.

Machiavelli would be proud.

Aenesthesia.1697:

other mmos add new content and then rewards to make playing it not only fun (if it is fun), but also rewarding.

To be fair, just because content is new doesn’t make it non-grindy. I have played lots of NEW content in MMOs and been annoyed by how grindy it is. And yeah, GW2 is like the king of taking what they already have and trying to get players to go out and use it again, but the new expansion will (presumably) be entirely new content added to the game.

I just hope not every zone in the Maguuma Jungle plays exactly like the Silverwastes. That’s gonna get very old very quickly.

Everything the OP lists is a CHOICE….you don’t have to do any of those. If you’re sick of it you can STOP doing it at any point.

I would choose Anet’s type of “grind” (fully optional) over other developers that REQUIRE you do the GRIND to advance the game…..

CureForLiving.5360:

Broken Arietta.4631:

Grind the Silverwastes for a chance at getting 1000g drops
Grind fractals for a chance at the fractal tonic
Grind fractals for a chance at the fractal weapon skins

Grind the Silverwastes for a chance at getting into the beta

So fed up of this.

Think this has come up a few times already, but here’s my take: grind – mandatory, needed for progress (level grinding, gear grinding etc). Farming – optional, needed to gain items not necessary for progression (skins, tonic etc.).
So you’re farming not grinding.

I like this, I’m saving it for later.

if ya want grind try ff14 >.> when they give you a 50% exp boost to lvl up the other classes and give resets exp bonus there is major grind. the last 10 levels even with boost takes hours to do vs here. as some state near best gear (exotics) are cheap/free to get depending on how you go about it.

Celtic Lady.3729:

To be fair, just because content is new doesn’t make it non-grindy. I have played lots of NEW content in MMOs and been annoyed by how grindy it is. And yeah, GW2 is like the king of taking what they already have and trying to get players to go out and use it again, but the new expansion will (presumably) be entirely new content added to the game.

ANet design philosophy seems to be to try and not spread their playerbase too thin or producing dead / playerless content (which commonly occurs in other MMOs when an expansion drops). It’s why LW S1 was primarily focused on revisiting and updating old areas instead of adding new. Mind you with S2 and now the expansion they seem to be moving away from that design philosophy.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Of course, farming can FEEL like grinding if the drop rate for the item you want is very low or the costs for something you want are very high.

Farming and grinding amounts to the same thing.

You only do them if you want something from the activity.

Problem is this game tends to push collecting sets of items as an activity, so if someone wants or is compelled to collect then they have no choice.

Drop rates are generally poor but then again this game is heavily into gambling. Just look at trick-or-treat bags, the shadow dyes, even miniature sets, all are really bad odds and are more about gambling rather than buying a product.

Miniature set 1, had 15 required at the start of the offer, but worked it out, for what it would cost for 10 sets (no guarantee I’d get them all) in gems I could buy the 15 with gold and it would cost about the same. So purchased 14 off of the Black lion Market as 1 I got from a sample set (I tried my luck).

I thought the odds for Shadow Dyes were pretty good; 1 in 2 1/2. That’s nearly 50/50. Surely the best we’ve seen in Gem Store Dyes…at least I think it’s been the best. Regardless, pretty good. I got one from every Kit I obtained.

As for the Beta Portals, we really have no idea, yet, how elusive they will be. Hopefully, they won’t be too difficult to obtain. =)

Good luck to all!

Brother Grimm.5176:

I would choose Anet’s type of “grind” (fully optional) over other developers that REQUIRE you do the GRIND to advance the game…..

Irrelevant. You are not “REQUIRED” to advance the game. You aren’t even “REQUIRED” to play the game at all.

In fact, it’s ironic that people point at mandatory grind to raid as an example of required grind, when articles about MMORPGs show how only a very small percentage of the playerbase bothers with raids at all.

The issue with grind in GW2 is that ArenaNet is focusing most of their resources on grind and the Gem Store. Just take a look at the new maps they have introduced – the Silverwastes is just a massive grind, the Pavillion was farming central, and so on.

Soon, the options in this game will be “grind” or “stop playing”.

disclaimer: I’m describing my best understanding of ANet’s definition, not my own.

ANet has been very specific about what they mean by grind and none of the situations in the OP’s post fit. When ANet uses the word, they mean repeating the same content in order to maintain parity with other players as the game evolves.

Thus, from their point of view, the following do not count as “grinding” because they aren’t required to keep pace with the game or other players:

• Anything to do with skins, including minis or legendaries. This includes opening 10k wintersday or halloween bags for a mini or other shiny, repeating the silverwastes main event for carapace armor, or rolling the dice in the Mystic Forge for a precursor.
• Anything to do with gearing up, as the game is currently setup. From their perspective, it’s a one time activity per character to set up ascended gear, not something you have to do every time a new Living Story or expac is released.

Now, personally, I think that’s an odd niche for the word, given its common usage by most MMO players to refer to any repetitious content (although players will differ about how repetitive things need to be to count).

I’d agree with them that gearing up isn’t grindy (since sure, it’s a one time thing, mostly). But I wouldn’t agree about acquiring carapace armor or mini gwyn — sure, it’s a choice to get skins, but the process offers no alternative to repeating identical content. I also think the current trait system is pure grind: if you have 8 characters (on for each prof), then you are required to run the same JPs and same events on each, which is imo textbook grind.

Still, regardless of my personal feelings on the topic, we can’t impose our definitions on their terminology. When they promised no grind, they meant only that we wouldn’t have to stay on a permanent treadmill for leveling gear (and characters). And, with some quibbling, GW2 fits that ideal.

tl;dr using ANet’s definition of grind, the game isn’t grindy. (Using our own, of course there is grind, although it pertains almost entirely to cosmetics.)

Brother Grimm.5176:

Everything the OP lists is a CHOICE….you don’t have to do any of those. If you’re sick of it you can STOP doing it at any point.

I would choose Anet’s type of “grind” (fully optional) over other developers that REQUIRE you do the GRIND to advance the game…..

Required grind does not exist in a game because a game is optional. A lot of people say WoW is one of those grindy games because you ‘had to grind’ to do the highest level raids.

Thing is, I did not care for the highest level raids, so I did not need to grind.

With grind in a game it’s always an ‘if’. IF you want X you need to grind. If you want to do the highest level raids in WoW you need to grind, if you want cosmetics, toys (and so on) in GW2 you need to grind.

You might find completing those highest level gear ‘advancing’ other find getting a full collection of toys, or the best looking armor ‘advancing’.

Would we want to point one of the two type of grind at worse, for a game that is so much focused on cosmetics ans GW2, I would consider the grind for those cosmetics worse.

Broken Arietta.4631:

Grind the Silverwastes for a chance at getting 1000g drops
Grind fractals for a chance at the fractal tonic
Grind fractals for a chance at the fractal weapon skins

Grind the Silverwastes for a chance at getting into the beta

So fed up of this.

I’m not sure you fully understand Anet’s “No Grind” philosophy.

CureForLiving.5360:

Broken Arietta.4631:

Grind the Silverwastes for a chance at getting 1000g drops
Grind fractals for a chance at the fractal tonic
Grind fractals for a chance at the fractal weapon skins

Grind the Silverwastes for a chance at getting into the beta

So fed up of this.

Think this has come up a few times already, but here’s my take: grind – mandatory, needed for progress (level grinding, gear grinding etc). Farming – optional, needed to gain items not necessary for progression (skins, tonic etc.).
So you’re farming not grinding.

Thats the difference between horizontal progression and vertical progression, only you then forget horizontal progression is also progression.

The definitions are kinda hard but when you grind for some currency to get what you want (being it an item, or a level) I consider it grinding. While if you work direly towards getting what you want without some currency in the way I consider it farming.

Then again, the drop-rate can also say something about it. If people want to get mats for a craft and can get it in half a hour they usually say “gonna farm some mats” but when they need a lot of it and it takes days they say “I’m grinding mats” On the other hand, if you need a lot of mats the mats become more of a currency. Also if a farm for a single item takes forever they usually say something like “This is an never ending grind”. So it’s a little vague.

It’s an Internet term so it has no exact definition but it’s something along those lines.

Devata.6589:

Required grind does not exist in a game because a game is optional.

I’m sorry but that’s inaccurate and flawed reasoning. Stating a game is optional has no bearing as to whether content locked behind a repetitive method of acquisition is in fact a grind or not.

Think of it in another way. Let’s say that in order for players to even start the game, they have to left click 1 million times. Then upon each level they get, they have to left click another 1 million times. All of this clicking is in order to progress in the game. Now by your argument, this game contains no grind because that game is optional.

I understand that there are people that tend to use the “game is optional” argument but it is flawed. Anything that is optional can still have grind that is required in order to experience some or all of the content within.

Here we go again…

Lets be perfectly clear:

The “no grind” policy extends to a full set of Exotic gear. Full Stop. Done. Finito.

EVERYTHING beyond that does and is intended to require MASSIVE investment of playtime or real money.

And as far as that goes they’ve succeeded brilliantly. Putting exotic gear on a freshly minted 80 is trivial. Mission accomplished. Job well done.

Ascended tier was added specifically to provide a gear progression activity that takes ages or heaps of money for people who like chasing that type of carrot. Rare skins like Infinite Light or Mjolnir have always required monumental effort, mostly gated through lodestones. Rare minis are truly rare. High end Achievement point skins take months if not years of dedication to unlock. Cultural armor is a serious investment in gold for the casual player.

This is not an accident, and it’s not going to change.

Curious in wtf you would do in an mmo w/o any grind at all? Just like play barbie and look at yourself in town hubs for a few hours a day?

Sounds like genre burn out for ya, play some new stuff when/if you get mad/frustrated with what you are playing.

The “no-grind” philosophy has always been in relation to stats, not to aesthetics. You should expect to grind your butt off (or trading-post it off) to get cool looking gear.

ANet, as has been stated, uses a very narrow definition of grind. By their definition, there is no grind in this game. By some player definitions, there is. It would be better to post about your perceived grind than to taint your post by referring to the philosophy. ANet will discount the topic because of their definition, whereas there’s a small chance they won’t if you talk about perceived grind and leave the “blame and shame” of references to the philosophy out of it.

It has also been said that MMO’s all have grind of one sort or another, whether it’s “optional” (cosmetic, very minor stat increases) or “required” (gear progression tiers to access content). It’s the nature of the beast.

Anyone who played the original GW extensively should be able to tell you that ANet follows a philosophy of exceptionally long-term goals and low-chance RNG for cosmetic items but avoids the gear tier gates for content seen in some (many) MMO’s.

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Required grind does not exist in a game because a game is optional.

I’m sorry but that’s inaccurate and flawed reasoning. Stating a game is optional has no bearing as to whether content locked behind a repetitive method of acquisition is in fact a grind or not.

Think of it in another way. Let’s say that in order for players to even start the game, they have to left click 1 million times. Then upon each level they get, they have to left click another 1 million times. All of this clicking is in order to progress in the game. Now by your argument, this game contains no grind because that game is optional.

I understand that there are people that tend to use the “game is optional” argument but it is flawed. Anything that is optional can still have grind that is required in order to experience some or all of the content within.

“I’m sorry but that’s inaccurate and flawed reasoning.” No it’s not.

“Stating a game is optional has no bearing as to whether content locked behind a repetitive method of acquisition is in fact a grind or not.” You are completely right. But making this out of what I said is flawed reasoning.

I simply said it was by definition not ‘required’. I do not talk about content being locked behind something. Not to mention that ‘content’ can be explained in many ways. Collecting those cosmetics is also considered ‘content’ by many and that is locked behind a repetitive method of acquisition. What makes in double flawed.

“Let’s say that in order for players to even start the game, they have to left click 1 million times.” While this would come the closes to definition of ‘required’ in a game it’s a completely unrealistic example (I don’t know any game where you would need to grind before you would be able to get into the game itself).

“Then upon each level they get, they have to left click another 1 million times.” That is only ‘if’ you want to get to the second level. There is always stuff you can do at level 1 and maybe that’s just fine for you. Getting to the next level is always a choice.

“Now by your argument, this game contains no grind because that game is optional.” Wait whut? I did not say it was not grind, I said it was not required! That is something else! What btw does not make it any better, let me also be clear about that.

The problem is that some people tent to consider grind to reach their personal goals as ‘required’ grind while the grind other people need to do to achieve their goals as optional grind they choose to do.

“Anything that is optional can still have grind that is required in order to experience some or all of the content within.” Yes, I never said this was not the case. In fact, that is my point. All grind is optional, that does not make one type of grind worse than another type of grind by definition. It’s a personal thing. It’s bad for you if it locks what you want.

Test.8734:

Irrelevant. You are not “REQUIRED” to advance the game. You aren’t even “REQUIRED” to play the game at all.

You’re mixing context here. I do believe ‘required’ here is placed within the context of the game itself and its mechanics.

Devata.6589:

With grind in a game it’s always an ‘if’. IF you want X you need to grind. If you want to do the highest level raids in WoW you need to grind, if you want cosmetics, toys (and so on) in GW2 you need to grind.

Since most new content in WoW takes the form of raids you’d be excluded from a large potion of content if you do not grind for better gear. Access to gameplay content is being walled off. You can’t really liken not being able to play content in the game with having a fancy weapon skin. The only grind in GW2 is fractals and technically leveling, in all other regards there is no content with a barrier to entry that requires grinding.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’m not sure you fully understand Anet’s “No Grind” philosophy.

Oh, i do. They achieve “No Grind” state, by using a grind definition so narrow to exclude most forms of grind, and pretending that since it doesn’t fit their definition, it doesn’t exist.

Strill.2591:

The “no-grind” philosophy has always been in relation to stats, not to aesthetics. You should expect to grind your butt off (or trading-post it off) to get cool looking gear.

Yeah, right. And Ascended are not a thing. Pure aestethics here…

Nike.2631:

Lets be perfectly clear:

The “no grind” policy extends to a full set of Exotic gear. Full Stop. Done. Finito.

EVERYTHING beyond that does and is intended to require MASSIVE investment of playtime or real money.

And as far as that goes they’ve succeeded brilliantly. Putting exotic gear on a freshly minted 80 is trivial. Mission accomplished. Job well done.

Ascended tier was added specifically to provide a gear progression activity that takes ages or heaps of money for people who like chasing that type of carrot. Rare skins like Infinite Light or Mjolnir have always required monumental effort, mostly gated through lodestones. Rare minis are truly rare. High end Achievement point skins take months if not years of dedication to unlock. Cultural armor is a serious investment in gold for the casual player.

This is not an accident, and it’s not going to change.

But it is bad nonetheless.

CureForLiving.5360:

Test.8734:

Irrelevant. You are not “REQUIRED” to advance the game. You aren’t even “REQUIRED” to play the game at all.

You’re mixing context here. I do believe ‘required’ here is placed within the context of the game itself and its mechanics.

Devata.6589:

With grind in a game it’s always an ‘if’. IF you want X you need to grind. If you want to do the highest level raids in WoW you need to grind, if you want cosmetics, toys (and so on) in GW2 you need to grind.

Since most new content in WoW takes the form of raids you’d be excluded from a large potion of content if you do not grind for better gear. Access to gameplay content is being walled off. You can’t really liken not being able to play content in the game with having a fancy weapon skin. The only grind in GW2 is fractals and technically leveling, in all other regards there is no content with a barrier to entry that requires grinding.

New content being mainly raids? Every expansion they add new toys, mini’s, mounts, armor and weapons (skins), toys, ranger pets and so on, all having their own content behind it.

With MoP they added a type of Pokémon system for mini’s, so a complete new game mechanic mainly targeting these type of players. They have ‘fun crafts’ (that lets you create this sorts of items) like engineering, that get expanded every expansion. All those things can keep people busy until the next expansion.

So no, most new content is not raids. It’s also all these things. It is exactly what GW2 missis or has as a big grind, and for a game that is so focused on cosmetics and ‘casual players’ that is a big problem.

“You can’t really liken not being able to play content in the game with having a fancy weapon skin.” Linken? You mean ‘compare’ right? No maybe you can’t, for example for me not being able to do the highest level raids would be less of a problem then having the fancy weapon skin behind an never ending brainless grind.

Devata.6589:

“You can’t really liken not being able to play content in the game with having a fancy weapon skin.” Linken? You mean ‘compare’ right? No maybe you can’t, for example for me not being able to do the highest level raids would be less of a problem then having the fancy weapon skin behind an never ending brainless grind.

Liken not linken. Liken is another word for compare and was used in the correct sense there.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liken

you don’t have to grind anything. just play the game how you like. full exotic gear is strong enough for the content and very easy to get.

now ofc if you need ascended gear or badly need a legendary, you’ll have to “grind” for it.

it’s like irl. if you want that big house and expensive car, you have to grind it.

Hidori.3472:

you don’t have to grind anything. just play the game how you like. full exotic gear is strong enough for the content and very easy to get.

now ofc if you need ascended gear or badly need a legendary, you’ll have to “grind” for it.

it’s like irl. if you want that big house and expensive car, you have to grind it.

And when people play a game they don’t want to have it like irl. It being a challenge is fine, smaller farms are also acceptable but a never-ending currency grid like irl is not what many people are looking for in a game.

Hidori.3472:

you don’t have to grind anything. just play the game how you like. full exotic gear is strong enough for the content and very easy to get.

now ofc if you need ascended gear or badly need a legendary, you’ll have to “grind” for it.

it’s like irl. if you want that big house and expensive car, you have to grind it.

One of the reasons why we play escapist virtual games is because we don’t want them to be “like irl”. What would be the point of that?

Devata.6589:

Hidori.3472:

you don’t have to grind anything. just play the game how you like. full exotic gear is strong enough for the content and very easy to get.

now ofc if you need ascended gear or badly need a legendary, you’ll have to “grind” for it.

it’s like irl. if you want that big house and expensive car, you have to grind it.

And when people play a game they don’t want to have it like irl. It being a challenge is fine, smaller farms are also acceptable but a never-ending currency grid like irl is not what many people are looking for in a game.

hm.

would you call it grinding when I do all the world bosses every day and the dailies? maybe throw in a few fast dungeon runs, too?

Doing this gives me enough gold and items and I’m happy.

But if I need something fast, I’ll have to grind it. there’s no way around, besides buying gold.

There’s just no need for grinding in this game. It’s all up to oneself and how desperate he is for a particular item.

As I said earlier, full exotic gear is easy to obtain and can be done casually without spending time grinding it.

it’s the nature of things. if we want to have something in a shorter period of time, we have to put in more effort. that’s true on this planet and all others out there.

Devata.6589:

Required grind does not exist in a game because a game is optional. A lot of people say WoW is one of those grindy games because you ‘had to grind’ to do the highest level raids.

One would assume that you play a game because you want to play a game which makes playing the game anything but optional. If you’re not interested in playing the game then the whole grind argument is superfluous.

It only becomes relevant when you actually want to play the game which is where mandatory or optional grind becomes an issue. Do I have to grind in order to play the game? Yes / No… Its a problem were as If I dont follow a specific grind at some point in time I will be prevent from playing anything further the game has to offer. Kinda like a paywall but with grind rather then money.

How is optional grind different then mandatory grind ?

as I said, I want to play the game thats my primary goal. If I need to grind the same content until I am able to progress more in the game I am stuck. Imagine having to get a full set of nightmare armor and weapons until you’re allowed in drytop for example and until you get to drytop and get full set of amberite weapons you cannot get to silverwastes which in turn until you get a full set of biolumen armor you cannot move on to heart of thorns.

I want to get to drytop, I want to experience the living story but unless I stick to the torture it will be impossible to ever play with my friends again. I have no choice I need to stick to the schedule and keep up.

lets compare this with actually getting nightmare court armor set, amberite weapons and biolumen armor with it being a requirement for anything. essentially its the same thing but from a game experience point of view its night and day. I do a couple of runs of TA and take a break, go farm a little dry top for those fossils… nahh but I dont feel like it today so let me go work a bit towards the biolumen armor but hey this all getting old so off I go exploring some old zones for something I missed or go level up a new alt with a friend and hey one night guild is organizing a TA run and are 1 down… lets go.

so yes required grind most certainly exists we all play a game an invest so much time in a game cause we want to play that game. grind that prevents you from playing said game is most certainly required grind and you cannot stop the grind or it will become impossible to catch up which ultimately turns the mmo into a single player game for the most part making it very hard for you to catch up with your buddies and thus forever segregating you from them unless you put in an inhuman level of grind to make up for the “slaking” or the game is kind enough to eventually put in some catch up system.

Hidori.3472:

you don’t have to grind anything. just play the game how you like. full exotic gear is strong enough for the content and very easy to get.

now ofc if you need ascended gear or badly need a legendary, you’ll have to “grind” for it.

it’s like irl. if you want that big house and expensive car, you have to grind it.

OK, i’ll bite.

How is exotic gear “very easy” to get?

PvE only asks for berserk gear, and a draconic chest piece with PPF costs 5G, berserk gear is the second most expensive, how is that easy to get?

Do yout think people will run dungeons with you if your character is using rares? Really? Even in guilds people don’t go with you if you are using rares, plus you don’t want to go with rares for dungeons, because rare gear is horrible in dungeons.

I agree with the ascended one.

aophts.9862:

Hidori.3472:

you don’t have to grind anything. just play the game how you like. full exotic gear is strong enough for the content and very easy to get.

now ofc if you need ascended gear or badly need a legendary, you’ll have to “grind” for it.

it’s like irl. if you want that big house and expensive car, you have to grind it.

OK, i’ll bite.

How is exotic gear “very easy” to get?

PvE only asks for berserk gear, and a draconic chest piece with PPF costs 5G, berserk gear is the second most expensive, how is that easy to get?

Do yout think people will run dungeons with you if your character is using rares? Really? Even in guilds people don’t go with you if you are using rares, plus you don’t want to go with rares for dungeons, because rare gear is horrible in dungeons.

I agree with the ascended one.

- If you are in a dungon group which asks you to ping your gear, leave the group.
- And yes I ran dungeons with a mix of masterwork, rare and exotic (lvl 70) gear

You can easily level up to 80 and then do world bosses every day and a few easy dungeons. And each day you can at least buy one exotic piece.

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Required grind does not exist in a game because a game is optional.

I’m sorry but that’s inaccurate and flawed reasoning. Stating a game is optional has no bearing as to whether content locked behind a repetitive method of acquisition is in fact a grind or not.

Think of it in another way. Let’s say that in order for players to even start the game, they have to left click 1 million times. Then upon each level they get, they have to left click another 1 million times. All of this clicking is in order to progress in the game. Now by your argument, this game contains no grind because that game is optional.

I understand that there are people that tend to use the “game is optional” argument but it is flawed. Anything that is optional can still have grind that is required in order to experience some or all of the content within.

“I’m sorry but that’s inaccurate and flawed reasoning.” No it’s not.

“Stating a game is optional has no bearing as to whether content locked behind a repetitive method of acquisition is in fact a grind or not.” You are completely right. But making this out of what I said is flawed reasoning.

I simply said it was by definition not ‘required’. I do not talk about content being locked behind something. Not to mention that ‘content’ can be explained in many ways. Collecting those cosmetics is also considered ‘content’ by many and that is locked behind a repetitive method of acquisition. What makes in double flawed.

“Let’s say that in order for players to even start the game, they have to left click 1 million times.” While this would come the closes to definition of ‘required’ in a game it’s a completely unrealistic example (I don’t know any game where you would need to grind before you would be able to get into the game itself).

“Then upon each level they get, they have to left click another 1 million times.” That is only ‘if’ you want to get to the second level. There is always stuff you can do at level 1 and maybe that’s just fine for you. Getting to the next level is always a choice.

“Now by your argument, this game contains no grind because that game is optional.” Wait whut? I did not say it was not grind, I said it was not required! That is something else! What btw does not make it any better, let me also be clear about that.

The problem is that some people tent to consider grind to reach their personal goals as ‘required’ grind while the grind other people need to do to achieve their goals as optional grind they choose to do.

“Anything that is optional can still have grind that is required in order to experience some or all of the content within.” Yes, I never said this was not the case. In fact, that is my point. All grind is optional, that does not make one type of grind worse than another type of grind by definition. It’s a personal thing. It’s bad for you if it locks what you want.

I was not talking about the type of grind that either exists or doesn’t exist in this game. What I was talking about was your usage of the argument that because a game is optional, there is no grind whether it be optional or required. This is incorrect.

GRIND is for end game gear and that not hard to get,other stuff like gold,epic skins are are meant to be hard to get or it would just be meaningless as everybody would have them.

aophts.9862:

Hidori.3472:

you don’t have to grind anything. just play the game how you like. full exotic gear is strong enough for the content and very easy to get.

now ofc if you need ascended gear or badly need a legendary, you’ll have to “grind” for it.

it’s like irl. if you want that big house and expensive car, you have to grind it.

OK, i’ll bite.

How is exotic gear “very easy” to get?

PvE only asks for berserk gear, and a draconic chest piece with PPF costs 5G, berserk gear is the second most expensive, how is that easy to get?

Do yout think people will run dungeons with you if your character is using rares? Really? Even in guilds people don’t go with you if you are using rares, plus you don’t want to go with rares for dungeons, because rare gear is horrible in dungeons.

I agree with the ascended one.

Full set of exotic armor and first weapon set comes to about 70-80g without runes (and you can got with cheap runes first). At about 10-15g per hour farming Silverwastes or even doing other things you’ll have the gold in about 4-5 hours tops. Maybe 10 hours if you do other stuff like dungeons etc.

How is this not considered “easy to get”?

none.9681:

~20G for near-best gear in PvE/WvW (except for high-level Fractals)
Free best ‘gear’ in PvP

So much grind!

20g how? Where I’m standing it looks like 7g per piece for Orange Zerk (ignoring jewellery), and that’s before runes. 6 armour slots + 2 weapons @7g is 56g.

56g is definitely a big grind to acquire unless you’re a pro.

It is grind if you make it a grind.

Its a game dude, so you should enjoy what you are doing. If you hate grinding I would rather go to factory and work there, as well get some money in return lol. Of course everyone wants best coolest looking gear, to show off, thats human nature, but if its your only goal, I would stop cause its waste of time

Cyninja.2954:

Full set of exotic armor and first weapon set comes to about 70-80g without runes (and you can got with cheap runes first). At about 10-15g per hour farming Silverwastes or even doing other things you’ll have the gold in about 4-5 hours tops. Maybe 10 hours if you do other stuff like dungeons etc.

How is this not considered “easy to get”?

Because you need good gear and great game knowledge to farm remotely near that efficiently?

You can’t even reliably get into dungeons with exotic gear so…

Hylgeriak.8250:

It is grind if you make it a grind.

what he said.

Non grindy way:
do world bosses which give you two bonus chests and two dungeons of your choice.
if you’re up for it, do one complete silverwastes run.

This will take you a few days, but there you go: not grindy.

The grindy way:
silverwastes weekend
and you’re done