Guild Wars 2

Under “Roll Check” section, I found this……

“…and some encounters may even require a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back…”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/designing-challenging-content/

So… … yeah,

Please stick to your original game design with no trinity.

Your apparent confusion seems to be-and this is no personal attack-that you believe not sticking to the current, somewhat flawed, IMHO, PVE model means adhering to a trinity model. The non-trinity, GW2 model can be so much more than DPS, even when lacking clear, defined “roles”-ANet obviously realizes this, and probably wants to do better justice to their own system.

Bishop.7140:

Please stick to your original game design with no trinity.

Because every build in the game (save for an extremely small handful of super-niche specs) should only ever wear one stat combination out of the ~25 available for all PVE content in the game.

Bishop.7140:

Please stick to your original game design with no trinity.

No.
Get out.
PVE content/dungeons is broken as kitten. Comparing it to other similar MMO reveals that instantly.
This game needs to keep what it has and also evolve beyond that. If that requires that we have a form of holy trinity, what’s to hate?
Besides, changing your build/gear is easy and I hear they plan to add gear sets; so it’ll be even easier.

Stop hating on the holy trinity.
It’s great.

Tempest for pve should be able to fill a healing roll. Even in wvw setting tempest can fill an healing roll.

Game was never designed to not have a trinity of some sort. It was designed to not have defined roles per class. It was designed so that any class could be a tank, any class could be dps and any class could be support. Simple misunderstanding of the game’s design in the first place. What they’re doing now IS sticking to their original game design

The trinity is boring to me, and just doesn’t fit GW2, but the status quo is now ancient history. That said, I doubt ANet is implementing any sort of true trinity, so I would tone down my expectations if I really loved trinity-system games. What is missing from current PvE instanced content isn’t a “new” trinity system, but a PROPER, more diverse usage of their current mechanics, which although usable are rarely deemed helpful, and much less necessary.

Until everyone figures out how to complete it with zerker…

Not expecting anything different.

Just because it says toughness gear, doesn’t mean its tanking.

It can mean anything from a largely based ad riddled encounter that has quick, small hitting attacks. This makes toughness mean more…..

Again this game already has a trinity though most people just ignore it entirely. Damage / Control / Support.

Not complex.

People who enjoy playing healing classes are just lazy. :| I don’t see the appeal or desire, it’s so intensely boring in MMOs and waiting around to find people to fill those roles is annoying. Anet were one of the few developers smart enough to understand that.

Considering how much damage enemies in Verdant Brink do, I laugh, outright laugh, at the notion of ‘tanks’ at the moment. And healing power is still in the gutter as a stat, which would be one way for a tank to do more.

Doggie.3184:

People who enjoy playing healing classes are just lazy. :| I don’t see the appeal or desire, it’s so intensely boring in MMOs and waiting around to find people to fill those roles is annoying. Anet were one of the few developers smart enough to understand that.

I like healing stuff, but don’t want standard trinity, nor does ANet, I am sure. How does that make me “lazy”; just because you think DPS is more “active” or “cooler”?

Remember this well, DPS lovers-the false premise spouted everywhere that GW2 is all “DPS-role” because it has no traditional tanking/healing role was indeed never true, nor “intended” for PVE content, regardless whatever pseudo-meta you see on LFG groups’ requirements. Not even true meta players believe that, despite their obvious adherence to optimal DPS setups.

I agree it’s not fun to wait for the right party composition, but that has nothing to do with people being lazy. Maybe they are just different than you, and who knows, they may even play tanks, healers, AND DPSers in the same game with different characters, perhaps being just “part time lazy”.

(Role-wars are silly-glad the current system is so flexible.)

Bishop.7140:

Under “Roll Check” section, I found this……

“…and some encounters may even require a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back…”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/designing-challenging-content/

So… … yeah,

Please stick to your original game design with no trinity.

That is false. You are incorrect and making a lot of very false assumptions. Your biggest mistake is that you think the game was originally not supposed to have a trinity.

The original game design was supposed to have a “soft trinity” which was different from other games in 2 ways. 1st, instead of tank/heal/dps it was supposed to be Control / Support / DPS. 2nd while in other games the trinity was supposed to be necessary to complete content, in GW2 the trinity was supposed to be necessary to complete content in an optimal manner (fastest and easiest), but you could still complete the content without it by it being more difficult to do so and taking longer.

One of the recent dev posts by A-Net stated that currently there is basically a game wide design flaw, which makes it so that only DPS + DPS support matters and they are working to correct that in the future content so that more builds and professions become included rather then excluded. This was maybe a month or so ago or around there, I’m sure you or anyone can dig it up if they really want to.

Personally I would welcome these changes very much as the the whole zerker thing has gone stale for me more then a year ago.

Support can take many forms: tankish, healy, general utility and control can take many forms as well, CC, inturrapts, slow / haste, and many more. It will be nice to see if they can actually pull off what they originally intended.

Doggie.3184:

People who enjoy playing healing classes are just lazy. :| I don’t see the appeal or desire, it’s so intensely boring in MMOs and waiting around to find people to fill those roles is annoying. Anet were one of the few developers smart enough to understand that.

That’s quite the opinion you got there. You do realize babysitting 4+ other players is much more difficult than mashing a set rotation while relying on that lazy healer to make sure you’re still alive to mash that rotation. Then again most dps usually play dps because they can’t wrap their minds around having to multi task.

Back on topic, what others said, toughness doesn’t mean tank.

It seems like ANet is bound and determined to make other gear sets meta in some encounters without making any effort to improve carrying and changing multiple gear sets easier than the current state, which is pathetic. I don’t mind encounters better completed with one player in survival gear, or condi gear for that matter — so long as I’m not the one required to carry all that extra crap around. If it turns out that one needs to carry 3-4 sets around to be able to participate, that will imo be worse than regaearing at the end of a level-up.

Thoigh I do like having different sets of armor with different skins, it is indeed a MAJOR source of frustration carrying these at all times. Inventory space often just doesn’t suffice under these conditions.

I hope “requiring” different sets of gear during the same mission isn’t implemented-it’s just not as “on the fly” as build switching out of combat.

Rauderi.8706:

Considering how much damage enemies in Verdant Brink do, I laugh, outright laugh, at the notion of ‘tanks’ at the moment. And healing power is still in the gutter as a stat, which would be one way for a tank to do more.

With plenty coming from conditions. They will certainly be laughing at the toughness gear.

Tashigi.3159:

Bishop.7140:

Please stick to your original game design with no trinity.

No.
Get out.
PVE content/dungeons is broken as kitten. Comparing it to other similar MMO reveals that instantly.
This game needs to keep what it has and also evolve beyond that. If that requires that we have a form of holy trinity, what’s to hate?
Besides, changing your build/gear is easy and I hear they plan to add gear sets; so it’ll be even easier.

Stop hating on the holy trinity.
It’s great.

No you get out. The entire appeal of this game is there is no trinity. There are literally dozens of MMO’s that have this backward and dated mechanic if you want it, so YOU go play them and let GW2 continue to modernise and redifine the genre.

I am not a big fan of the trinity but I am all for revamping encounters to make different roles more important without every encounter requiring tank/heal/dps and I sure hope Anet will get this right.

Technically, they never said they had no trinity… They said any character could play how they want. From day one, even on their site, they defined 3 roles. Utility (and CC?), Support and Damage. People just forgot about this fairly quickly because none of the previous roles were ever needed, and “play how you want” became “don’t play how you want, only play Berserker, or get out of my group”.

(A while ago this page went missing though, I can’t find it anymore… I wonder if this might have had to do with the internal start up of HoT, but I know it existed.)

ronpierce.2760:

Technically, they never said they had no trinity… They said any character could play how they want. From day one, even on their site, they defined 3 roles. Utility (and CC?), Support and Damage. People just forgot about this fairly quickly because none of the previous roles were ever needed, and “play how you want” became “don’t play how you want, only play Berserker, or get out of my group”.

(A while ago this page went missing though, I can’t find it anymore… I wonder if this might have had to do with the internal start up of HoT, but I know it existed.)

http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

Bishop.7140:

Under “Roll Check” section, I found this……

“…and some encounters may even require a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back…”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/designing-challenging-content/

So… … yeah,

Please stick to your original game design with no trinity.

We have a holy trinity in this game.

Nomad leechers/Zerkers/ressers.

I think it will be more like the Boss sends out a pulse dealing high damage to everything but you can body block it – so all the squishies run behind a tankier character to counter that ability.

I don’t think we’ll have a traditional “take all the aggro” tank.

IndigoSundown.5419:

ronpierce.2760:

Technically, they never said they had no trinity… They said any character could play how they want. From day one, even on their site, they defined 3 roles. Utility (and CC?), Support and Damage. People just forgot about this fairly quickly because none of the previous roles were ever needed, and “play how you want” became “don’t play how you want, only play Berserker, or get out of my group”.

(A while ago this page went missing though, I can’t find it anymore… I wonder if this might have had to do with the internal start up of HoT, but I know it existed.)

http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

That sounded awesome way back when it first came out. Too bad they didn’t follow through in the design of various encounters.

So ANet uses the word “tank” and you think that means traditional trinity? Go ahead and try it in Raids to see how well that works for you.

When Raids begin, people will try all sorts of things and eventually there will be a meta for it, too. However, since this is a game without a traditional trinity, there won’t be specific classes required to complete Raids — the community might end up preferring certain combinations of builds, which is entirely different.

The thing that ANet wanted to eliminate was requiring specific professions for instanced content. And so far, in this game, any profs can complete any content — ANet’s goal is met.

My concern is exactly how much unavoidable damage they’ll be throwing at us. The thing with standard tank/heal/dps games is that the scales between different archetypes are huge.

In GW2, the scales between them are small. The difference between someone running around in full GC as compared to, say, knights gear isn’t that big. It is only about 60% higher effective health, which may seem like a lot until you realize it just means you’ll be taking 37.5% less damage. That is less than the innate difference between some classes.

As much as I am for gear diversity, I can’t forget this fact. Gear diversity is about preference in play more than anything else, because as the game stands it currently can’t handle a traditional trinity setup.

The idea that there are roles and different classes can fulfill those roles to a certain extent is faulty.

There is always going to be one class that can do a certain thing most efficiently, reliably and that class WILL be desired for that role over others. Eventually this leads to the same point where we are now. Now the lfg is full of “1 guard, 1 warrior, 1 thief, 2 ele” posts for this reason. This composition can provide damage, required control and support to beat any 5-man instance.

Now sure, you can bring a mesmer to reflect, cleanse conditions similar to guardian, blind and stealth similar to thief, but you really only take one if you want portal because the dps sucks.
You could bring an engineer for blinding, stealth, projectile defense and condi cleanse/healing also nice dps… but you can’t fit the poor guy in the meta party as all the roles are already filled.
This won’t change in HoT, so eventually we’ll end up with certain class combinations for raids that work best and then no other class will be able to join raids. Since raids will have room for 10 people, it might actually happen that we won’t be running with 2 guards, 1 warrior and 7 eles. But i wouldn’t be surprised if we did eventually.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

My concern is exactly how much unavoidable damage they’ll be throwing at us. The thing with standard tank/heal/dps games is that the scales between different archetypes are huge.

In GW2, the scales between them are small. The difference between someone running around in full GC as compared to, say, knights gear isn’t that big. It is only about 60% higher effective health, which may seem like a lot until you realize it just means you’ll be taking 37.5% less damage. That is less than the innate difference between some classes.

As much as I am for gear diversity, I can’t forget this fact. Gear diversity is about preference in play more than anything else, because as the game stands it currently can’t handle a traditional trinity setup.

That IS a lot. It’s not just more EHP, it’s also more Effective Healing.

Put that toughness on a necro with blood magic, wells healing you for just shy of 200 per tick per enemy and yeah it’s a big deal.

Khristophoros.7194:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

My concern is exactly how much unavoidable damage they’ll be throwing at us. The thing with standard tank/heal/dps games is that the scales between different archetypes are huge.

In GW2, the scales between them are small. The difference between someone running around in full GC as compared to, say, knights gear isn’t that big. It is only about 60% higher effective health, which may seem like a lot until you realize it just means you’ll be taking 37.5% less damage. That is less than the innate difference between some classes.

As much as I am for gear diversity, I can’t forget this fact. Gear diversity is about preference in play more than anything else, because as the game stands it currently can’t handle a traditional trinity setup.

That IS a lot. It’s not just more EHP, it’s also more Effective Healing.

Put that toughness on a necro with blood magic, wells healing you for just shy of 200 per tick per enemy and yeah it’s a big deal.

It really isn’t when comparing thresholds of damage. On paper it seems good in the long term, but in reality that extra amount of EHP frequently won’t mean a thing. While fighting champions in silverwastes and drytop, I will very frequently be hit with an attack that goes for 16k or so in a single strike. That number is 10k in knights gear. The overall takeaway of this? You still die in two hits, and your toughness has gained you nothing.

As much as I’d like to make the necro the tank (BTW, vampiric rituals only heals for 110 per tick), Death Shroud blocking healing makes supporting them inconsistent. You’d be better off with a class that can chain invulnerability skills.

Doggie.3184:

People who enjoy playing healing classes are just lazy. :| I don’t see the appeal or desire, it’s so intensely boring in MMOs and waiting around to find people to fill those roles is annoying. Anet were one of the few developers smart enough to understand that.

That’s just comedy gold, right there. PEOPLE are lazy, so if healing was a lazy job there would be a lot more of them. Instead about 75% of MMO players gravitate to DPS roles, 15%ish to healing, and about 10% to tanking… which should tell you exactly how demanding those roles are relatively speaking.

At least ANet’s raid designers are integrating the hard earned wisdom of enrage timers which serve exactly one purpose in a game without mana-pool management: to make it absolutely clear when it’s the DPSers who are falling short. Not surprisingly most of DPS players don’t like being scrutinized, because in any group of people only one-in-ten is actually in the top 10% percent. Enrage timers separate the self-aggrandizing blowhards from the real alpha predators.

Trinity is better than whatever the hell it is that dungeons have now.

Substatic.6958:

Trinity is better than whatever the hell it is that dungeons have now.

Ok…Why is it better? I can tell you that the thought of having to wait half an hour for a healer for Cof1 and then abandoning the dungeon halfway in leaving us to wait another 30 mins for a healer, or a tank that keeps failing at tanking Alpha in COE; would be beyond frustrating.

They did away with the old mechanics of trinity for a very very good reason. That you prefer the old way of doing things should tell you that GW2 is not the game for you.

Rather than expect Anet to spend time and money developing the game around your personal needs, why not try out SWTOR or a little game called World of Warcraft. One is a sci fi setting, one is a fantasy.

I am sure either of those will be perfectly appropriate for your needs and other people like you.

Why I make the same damage in my Cavalier’S Reaper as Marauder Reaper, so why should not I have toughness gear.

Free yourselves from these cliche’s ‘HoT is coming’.

I really dont get why people are reading so much into it. You can be “tanky” (1600-1800 toughness) with little loss of offensive power compared to a zerker that dies halfway through the battle.

I am fairly certain that Anet arent refering to Guardians with 2300 toughness, 2300 vitality, perma protection and 750+ AoE hps

does toughness help with dmg from condition?

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Khristophoros.7194:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

My concern is exactly how much unavoidable damage they’ll be throwing at us. The thing with standard tank/heal/dps games is that the scales between different archetypes are huge.

In GW2, the scales between them are small. The difference between someone running around in full GC as compared to, say, knights gear isn’t that big. It is only about 60% higher effective health, which may seem like a lot until you realize it just means you’ll be taking 37.5% less damage. That is less than the innate difference between some classes.

As much as I am for gear diversity, I can’t forget this fact. Gear diversity is about preference in play more than anything else, because as the game stands it currently can’t handle a traditional trinity setup.

That IS a lot. It’s not just more EHP, it’s also more Effective Healing.

Put that toughness on a necro with blood magic, wells healing you for just shy of 200 per tick per enemy and yeah it’s a big deal.

It really isn’t when comparing thresholds of damage. On paper it seems good in the long term, but in reality that extra amount of EHP frequently won’t mean a thing. While fighting champions in silverwastes and drytop, I will very frequently be hit with an attack that goes for 16k or so in a single strike. That number is 10k in knights gear. The overall takeaway of this? You still die in two hits, and your toughness has gained you nothing.

As much as I’d like to make the necro the tank (BTW, vampiric rituals only heals for 110 per tick), Death Shroud blocking healing makes supporting them inconsistent. You’d be better off with a class that can chain invulnerability skills.

If the hits are that big you’re supposed to dodge them or use shroud to absorb them when you’re out of endurance. Shroud has 50% damage reduction so you can take 4 of those hits, or 6 of those hits if you have protection on too.

The point I was making is a character can provide their own sustain. A necro doesn’t need external healing. Between blood magic and shroud you have enough.

Vamp rituals is 110, then you get about 40 each from both other siphon traits for the damaging wells, so that is about 190 per enemy per tick. And the non-damaging wells only heal for 110 per tick per enemy. Of course that’s only the wells. The necro gets more siphons in addition to that.

TJgalon.5012:

does toughness help with dmg from condition?

Nope, its why you find Mordrem Husks are tougher to killl with Power than Condi (they have high Toughness).

Coulter.2315:

TJgalon.5012:

does toughness help with dmg from condition?

Nope, its why you find Mordrem Husks are tougher to killl with Power than Condi (they have high Toughness).

since I only fought them with my Engi and Thief, I did not know. Is there a defense for Condi dmg?

TJgalon.5012:

Coulter.2315:

TJgalon.5012:

does toughness help with dmg from condition?

Nope, its why you find Mordrem Husks are tougher to killl with Power than Condi (they have high Toughness).

since I only fought them with my Engi and Thief, I did not know. Is there a defense for Condi dmg?

Only real defense for condi damage is having more health. And obviously condi cleanses

Random.4691:

Doggie.3184:

People who enjoy playing healing classes are just lazy. :| I don’t see the appeal or desire, it’s so intensely boring in MMOs and waiting around to find people to fill those roles is annoying. Anet were one of the few developers smart enough to understand that.

That’s quite the opinion you got there. You do realize babysitting 4+ other players is much more difficult than mashing a set rotation while relying on that lazy healer to make sure you’re still alive to mash that rotation. Then again most dps usually play dps because they can’t wrap their minds around having to multi task.

Back on topic, what others said, toughness doesn’t mean tank.

But… but… I’m winning on damage and the healer is doing no damage and that’s the only metric for laziness!

Tanking and healing are so much less lazy than DPS but you’re right toughness is not the same as tanking.

Building toughness is one of the main ways to draw aggro in GW but it’s not a “hard” tank, far more interesting to me is the ability of all classes to fulfill the the roles of GW2s trinity; control, support and damage. That’s what they need to bring in these new encounters, the need for builds other than might stacking DPS. If they do that then they might succeed in creating challenging content. If these encounters can be beaten by 10 berserker equipped characters who stack and then DPS the bosses down then they’ve failed.

BeckaPL.2670:

TJgalon.5012:

Coulter.2315:

TJgalon.5012:

does toughness help with dmg from condition?

Nope, its why you find Mordrem Husks are tougher to killl with Power than Condi (they have high Toughness).

since I only fought them with my Engi and Thief, I did not know. Is there a defense for Condi dmg?

Only real defense for condi damage is having more health. And obviously condi cleanses

At the rate with which the enemy can spam conditions in this game, the best option against them is “reduction of condition duration”.

The best choices for me are a combiniacion of traits with:

• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Hoelbrak

• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Melandru

• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup

• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loaf_of_Saffron_Bread

After this, you can use condi cleanses skills.

Mitch.4781:

Substatic.6958:

Trinity is better than whatever the hell it is that dungeons have now.

Ok…Why is it better? I can tell you that the thought of having to wait half an hour for a healer for Cof1 and then abandoning the dungeon halfway in leaving us to wait another 30 mins for a healer, or a tank that keeps failing at tanking Alpha in COE; would be beyond frustrating.

They did away with the old mechanics of trinity for a very very good reason. That you prefer the old way of doing things should tell you that GW2 is not the game for you.

Rather than expect Anet to spend time and money developing the game around your personal needs, why not try out SWTOR or a little game called World of Warcraft. One is a sci fi setting, one is a fantasy.

I am sure either of those will be perfectly appropriate for your needs and other people like you.

They removed dedicated healers and tank professions, they renamed those roles to support and control, so the point is that any profession can “heal” (support) or “tank”. So you shouldn’t be waiting 30 minutes for a healer ever as people can switch their builds on the fly. In fact I haven’t played any MMOs where I was waiting 30 minutes for a healer since vanilla wow; they fixed the tank and healer shortage by making other classes effective at tanking and healing in TBC.

Also, this may come as a shock, but you telling people to go play wow or other games will have no effect on whether or not they introduce a need for “tanking” in this game. I know, I know, it’s almost as if they’re not creating this game_ just_ for you, but hey, that’s life.

Pifil.5193:

Mitch.4781:

Substatic.6958:

Trinity is better than whatever the hell it is that dungeons have now.

Ok…Why is it better? I can tell you that the thought of having to wait half an hour for a healer for Cof1 and then abandoning the dungeon halfway in leaving us to wait another 30 mins for a healer, or a tank that keeps failing at tanking Alpha in COE; would be beyond frustrating.

They did away with the old mechanics of trinity for a very very good reason. That you prefer the old way of doing things should tell you that GW2 is not the game for you.

Rather than expect Anet to spend time and money developing the game around your personal needs, why not try out SWTOR or a little game called World of Warcraft. One is a sci fi setting, one is a fantasy.

I am sure either of those will be perfectly appropriate for your needs and other people like you.

They removed dedicated healers and tank professions, they renamed those roles to support and control, so the point is that any profession can “heal” (support) or “tank”. So you shouldn’t be waiting 30 minutes for a healer ever as people can switch their builds on the fly. In fact I haven’t played any MMOs where I was waiting 30 minutes for a healer since vanilla wow; they fixed the tank and healer shortage by making other classes effective at tanking and healing in TBC.

Also, this may come as a shock, but you telling people to go play wow or other games will have no effect on whether or not they introduce a need for “tanking” in this game. I know, I know, it’s almost as if they’re not creating this game_ just_ for you, but hey, that’s life.

So basically you’re advocating the current GW2 system right? So why are you crying? This will obviously come as a shock to YOU, but the point went waaay over your head. The poster was advocating the old trinity system from old gen mmos. That is, the Reintroduction of SPECIFIC Healers and tanks, no doubt removing those functions from dps classes. I don’t know when you last played WOW, but judging by your TBC comment it must be 7 years ago! I played CATA and MOP and guess what, there are STILL queues for healers and tanks. Just like there are STILL queues for healers and Tanks in SWTOR. Fixed the healer and Tank shortage? What utter GARBAGE! The old flaws still remain and guess what…people don’t like waiting for very specific roles. We want to get in and PLAY.

They aren’t creating this game for me, they have created this game for themselves and people like me who were incredibly bored and tired of the old outdated trinity system. I know that sucks for you, but hey, that’s life.

“dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back. "

Notice they mention Condition players in the back? Assuming you wont have the toughness and vitality to take any hits doing direct damage in condi gear? It sounds like they want ranged condi which sucks. What about melee condi roles?

Khisanth.2948:

Rauderi.8706:

Considering how much damage enemies in Verdant Brink do, I laugh, outright laugh, at the notion of ‘tanks’ at the moment. And healing power is still in the gutter as a stat, which would be one way for a tank to do more.

With plenty coming from conditions. They will certainly be laughing at the toughness gear.

I made a cavalier reaper. I was quite easily surviving the enemies in Verdant brink while maintaining over 2400 power, 100% crit chance, and over 200% critical damage while in death shround.

2450 or so toughness, with shrouded removal pulsing condition removal every three seconds, and the option to drop out of it to spam shouts with trooper runes if a condition burst happened.

Life force generation fell dramatically in single target situations, but it’s in single target situations where it becomes a lot easier to just dodge the major attacks.

runeblade.7514:

Bishop.7140:

Under “Roll Check” section, I found this……

“…and some encounters may even require a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back…”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/designing-challenging-content/

So… … yeah,

Please stick to your original game design with no trinity.

We have a holy trinity in this game.

Nomad leechers/Zerkers/ressers.

I thought the current trinity was Might / Fury / Vulnerability ?

Doggie.3184:

People who enjoy playing healing classes are just lazy. :| I don’t see the appeal or desire, it’s so intensely boring in MMOs and waiting around to find people to fill those roles is annoying. Anet were one of the few developers smart enough to understand that.

that depends, look at FFXIV for example:

White Mage is “the traditional healer”, although it can still pump out some serious DPS if asked.

Scholar is a healer that only really gets involved for large “tankbuster” hits or for heavy party damage, the rest of the time it is either doing DPS just under the levels of the actual DPS classes or supporting the tank with buffs, meanwhile its pet is the one healing the party.

Astrologian is the “buff” healer, whilst they are the worst at dealing damage, they have a set of cards that apply fairly powerful buffs to a player or the party (like 10% more damage for 90 seconds).

in ALL three roles, you are EXPECTED to heal AND DPS.

not all healers are lazy, and not all MMOs are WoW

in fact, in FFXIV, the role people tend to have to wait for most is Tanks.

sure, the trinity sucks when it’s enforced, but honestly, the way the game is now is FAR more restrictive than the trinity ever was.

destroying the trinity was supposed to give us freedom to make our own party comps, but instead it’s just switched from Tank/Healer/DPS to DPS/DPS/DPS

the game has no aggro mechanic, so people can’t tank even if they want to, there are almost no targetable heals, so you can’t heal if you wanted to. THIS IS NOT FREEDOM, it’s a cage with a wire mesh instead of bars so you THINK you’re free.

I’d say that the Revenant is actually the truest expression of what the devs wanted: it has a stance that is tankish by having occasional taunts and traits thatmake taunted targets do less damage. it has a stance that is healerish by creating a summonable pet rock that heals people and deflects attacks. it has direct damage and conditions stances. and it has a stance that gives everyone tons of boons. and ALL of these are seperate from the class’s weaponskills. it has clearly defined roles, but you are not locked into them, nor are you pigeonholed into using one… except you are because currently DPS is all that matters.

Tanks aren’t coming, This game has no mechanics that would make tanking a thing that was possible. No way to hold aggro at all. And now we’ll get the uninformed saying they added taunt but taunt is just a backwards fear. It doesn’t draw aggro or threat. It just makes you run in a certain direction for a bit until hit.

Also what condition players sit in the back? Do the people who make this game even play it?

dom.2748:

Tanks aren’t coming, This game has no mechanics that would make tanking a thing that was possible. No way to hold aggro at all. And now we’ll get the uninformed saying they added taunt but taunt is just a backwards fear. It doesn’t draw aggro or threat. It just makes you run in a certain direction for a bit until hit.

Revenant can actually be a somewhat effective tank.

in Legendary Dwarf stance, there is a utility with no cooldown but 50 energy cost that gives a 2s taunt and slow, plus, its other utility skills are a condition removing heal (that grants retaliation), an AoE that causes weakness and grants you stability, anability with an upkeep cost that reduces damage taken by 20%, and the elite is an AoE that grants you an unspecified amount of damage reduction.

in its retribuion traitline there is a trait to make taunt last twice as long and make enemies deal 20% less damage whn under taunt.

there is also a trait that makes you take 10% less damage when under 75% hp, and a bunch of traits that rely on you being hit (endurance on hit, stability and retaliation on dodge, and a choice of either a self heal when you get hit, or to gain might when you get hit with retaliation)

it’s not a traditional “stand over there whilst the enemies hit them” tank, but it does rely on you being the one to get hit, and being able to recover or mitigate that hit.

an act of desperation. Rest assured, you will get mounts and “n00b, y u not hjeal me?!” soon enough