Guild Wars 2

“At the core of Guild Wars 2 is this simple concept. Respect for the player’s intelligence, respect for the player’s time, respect for the player’s investment, and respect, even reverence, for the genre.”

http://www.realmofgaming.com/reviews/pc/guildwars2/838.html

Respect for your intelligence: They tell you ascended is there to “fill the ‘gap’ between exotics and legendary”. Uhuh, right, all the sudden there’s a gap to be filled, folks! Then their initial response says a lot but gives no hard information on the future of the game. Don’t you find the double talk disrespectful?

Respect for your time: You follow the game for years, keep reading all that awesome “no grind” “is it fun?” “game we’d like to play” talk. It launches, it’s great, you invest 600+ hours into it thinking you’ll be playing an awesome game for years and BAM they bail on the game’s core ‘design philosophies’.

Respect for the player investment: Fully supportive players who have pre-purchased it after reading all the pretty blog posts can’t get a refund now they have decided to change the game.

Another link for your amusement:
http://www.arena.net/blog/the-golden-rules-of-guild-wars-2

“Respect the player

We respect you—as a player, as a human being. This game we’re making may end up competing with your real life. It might fight for your free time alongside your friends, your family, your work, and whatever else you might be doing. Because of that, we want to give you a meaningful experience, not one that is a vapid waste of your time. Whatever your reasons for spending time in Tyria, we don’t want to waste it by doing stuff that isn’t fun.

Purpose: To keep us honest"

If we can’t have the game that was sold, I think they should at least show us some respect in the coming communication.

Let’s see how long it lasts.

dirtyklingon.2918:

you are about to learn the full power of their respect for quoting and linking their own words bro, nevermind using their holy names in vain.

LMAO! The sad part is that it’s true.

Adding new rings and back pieces that are slightly better then existing ones certianly changed the whole philosphy of the game huh.

bigbobpataki.4796:

Adding new rings and back pieces that are slightly better then existing ones certianly changed the whole philosphy of the game huh.

I’m guessing you don’t know the game’s philosophy prior to grinding treadmill was introduced.
Yes – it did change the philosophy of the game.

one of another million or so threads of this nature that will never get answered by an employee.

Ballistic.4531:

bigbobpataki.4796:

Adding new rings and back pieces that are slightly better then existing ones certianly changed the whole philosphy of the game huh.

I’m guessing you don’t know the game’s philosophy prior to grinding treadmill was introduced.
Yes – it did change the philosophy of the game.

I do, and I was why I bought the game. That philosophy is not dead, at least not yet. The new ring/back pieces are as much of a “treadmill” as legendaries are. Now, if we had full sets of ascended gear I would agree that the philosophy has been changed, but until that day arrives, I think speculating one what is to be on little to no evidence is sillly. Yes they have said that they will eventually add full sets, but who knows when that is, and even if they plan on doing that still with all the outrage.

That last bit you add at the end hit a cord for me, regarding respect for the player that IMHO I think they have abandoned.

But on the gear gap bit, let me explain, it not that there was a gap in power it’s that there’s a huge gap in what it takes to obtain an Exotic item vs a Legendary weapon.

The problem is it’s a convoluted path of combining crap in the mystic forger obtaining the precursor weapon and then combining more stuff to get the gifts and it all feels more like crafting then actually winning a fight and getting a trophy.

Because most people just want to go kill stuff following a step by step spread sheet of hoops to jump through just isn’t fun for a cosmetic upgrade and therefore most people just saw Exotics as the end of the road.

IMHO …what they should have done was not make it any easier to get an legendary but instead made the path to them a little less convoluted and more based on rare drops in the world.

bigbobpataki.4796:

Adding new rings and back pieces that are slightly better then existing ones certianly changed the whole philosphy of the game huh.

I don’t consider 20% plus improvements to be slight.

bigbobpataki.4796:

Ballistic.4531:

bigbobpataki.4796:

Adding new rings and back pieces that are slightly better then existing ones certianly changed the whole philosphy of the game huh.

I’m guessing you don’t know the game’s philosophy prior to grinding treadmill was introduced.
Yes – it did change the philosophy of the game.

I do, and I was why I bought the game. That philosophy is not dead, at least not yet. The new ring/back pieces are as much of a “treadmill” as legendaries are. Now, if we had full sets of ascended gear I would agree that the philosophy has been changed, but until that day arrives, I think speculating one what is to be on little to no evidence is sillly. Yes they have said that they will eventually add full sets, but who knows when that is, and even if they plan on doing that still with all the outrage.

What’s the difference between introducing few better items and full sets? You still have to go after better gear, be it full set or “just” a few items. Better stats are still better stats.
It doesn’t really matter how long it will take them to introduce entire sets, but it is coming. No doubt about it. They said so. It’s not a speculation.
So, the philosophy is broken with just a single item, it doesn’t require full set to break. You either do as you say you will, or you don’t. It’s that simple.

Columba.9730:

bigbobpataki.4796:

Adding new rings and back pieces that are slightly better then existing ones certianly changed the whole philosphy of the game huh.

I don’t consider 20% plus improvements to be slight.

Where are you seeing that?

bigbobpataki.4796:

Columba.9730:

bigbobpataki.4796:

Adding new rings and back pieces that are slightly better then existing ones certianly changed the whole philosphy of the game huh.

I don’t consider 20% plus improvements to be slight.

Where are you seeing that?

Multiple threads where people have done the side by side math.

It doesn’t really matter how long it will take them to introduce entire sets, but it is coming. No doubt about it. They said so. It’s not a speculation.

They made a comment a week or two back that they plan on adding full sets. Until I see pictures of the set, or they say that after all of this community outrage they still plan on doing that, it is speculating to me. You do not know their plans after a patch like this.

That being said, they have been doing a very poor job at communcating with us.

bigbobpataki.4796:

They made a comment a week or two back that they plan on adding full sets. Until I see pictures of the set, or they say that after all of this community outrage they still plan on doing that, it is speculating to me. You do not know their plans after a patch like this.

That being said, they have been doing a very poor job at communcating with us.

Well, they can pretty much say anything they want at this point, I won’t trust them.
They said that this game won’t have a traditional end-game, gear treadmill, content gating… But we do, and I got burned. But not again.

bigbobpataki.4796:

That philosophy is not dead, at least not yet.

Lol denial at its finest. So they’ve introduced new gear, they cut down the way to acquire the ‘best in slot’ gear to a single path, and they are allowing that gear and it’s infusions to be used in WvW and other dungeons. This creates a situation where everyone is going to focus on FotM, on top of that they segmented the population with the ridiculous difficulty scale. Have you seen all the “LF1M – full exotics – lvl 5+” sort of shouts in LA? You think that sort of ridiculously divisive behavior gels with the overall design philosophy of the game? How is that in line with their goal of removing all points of pve contention? How is that good for the game? What about all the quotes about new content in 3mo, this being the ‘just the start of our gear progression’ etc? Just going to cross your fingers and hope that doesn’t happen? Because Anet listened so much to us about this change…. no wait, they just announced it ~10 days before it was going to go live and pushed it out ignoring the outcry. They didn’t even postpone the patch to explain what it was, they also left out things like the fact that they introduced new prefixes and that drop rates were higher for rare/exotic in FotM.

Old path to best in slot:
Karma
Gold
Dungeons
Pvp
Crafting/Gathering

New path to best in slot:
Fractals

No change in philosophy here.

It seems to me that if this keeps going on, then WoW actully has more respect for players’ time. WoW is vertical progression, but the cross-realm LFG and LFR mechanism (cross-realm LFR was implemented this year) at least makes it not too time-consuming for casual players to see the content of the entire game.

Multiple threads where people have done the side by side math.

Ok, let do the side by side math.

Ascended ring: http://www.gw2db.com/items/71363-yakkingtons-ring

Yakkingtons Ring
51 Power
51 Precision
%10 Magic Find
+18 Precision
+18 Power

Unused Infusion Slot.

Total of 69 Power, 69 Precision, 10% magic find.

Exotic Ring: http://www.gw2db.com/items/58007-opal-orichalcum-ring

Opal Orichalcum Ring
+48 Power
+48 Precision
+3% Magic Find
and with an Exquiste opal Jewel
+15 Power
+15 Precision
+4% Magic find

Total of +63 Power, +63 Precision, +7% Magic find.

The ascended has 6 more power and precision and 3% more magic find.

63/69=.91

or the ascended has 9% more stats then the exotic, aside from the magic find. Its a boost, but not a major one, nor 20%

bigbobpataki.4796:

Multiple threads where people have done the side by side math.

Ok, let do the side by side math.

Ascended ring: http://www.gw2db.com/items/71363-yakkingtons-ring

Yakkingtons Ring
51 Power
51 Precision
%10 Magic Find
+18 Precision
+18 Power

Unused Infusion Slot.

Total of 69 Power, 69 Precision, 10% magic find.

Exotic Ring: http://www.gw2db.com/items/58007-opal-orichalcum-ring

Opal Orichalcum Ring
+48 Power
+48 Precision
+3% Magic Find
and with an Exquiste opal Jewel
+15 Power
+15 Precision
+4% Magic find

Total of +63 Power, +63 Precision, +7% Magic find.

The ascended has 6 more power and precision and 3% more magic find.

63/69=.91

or the ascended has 9% more stats then the exotic, aside from the magic find. Its a boost, but not a major one, nor 20%

Now look up the stats on an infusion

Hi,

Remember to keep this discussion civil and constructive.

Thanks for your understanding !

Civility can only mask anger so well. I suspect we have angry players. Facing the truth is sometimes uncomfortable.

Nice post, OP.

Now look up the stats on an infusion

ok: http://www.gw2db.com/items/72483-versatile-vital-infusion

+5 vitality, +5 agony resistance.

the +5 vitality will not make or break your character, and the agony resistance is useless outside of FotM since agony is not found anywhere else. Most of these infusions follow this pattern of +5 X state, +5 agnoy resistance.

bigbobpataki.4796:

Multiple threads where people have done the side by side math.

Ok, let do the side by side math.

Ascended ring: http://www.gw2db.com/items/71363-yakkingtons-ring

Yakkingtons Ring
51 Power
51 Precision
%10 Magic Find
+18 Precision
+18 Power

Unused Infusion Slot.

Total of 69 Power, 69 Precision, 10% magic find.

Exotic Ring: http://www.gw2db.com/items/58007-opal-orichalcum-ring

Opal Orichalcum Ring
+48 Power
+48 Precision
+3% Magic Find
and with an Exquiste opal Jewel
+15 Power
+15 Precision
+4% Magic find

Total of +63 Power, +63 Precision, +7% Magic find.

The ascended has 6 more power and precision and 3% more magic find.

63/69=.91

or the ascended has 9% more stats then the exotic, aside from the magic find. Its a boost, but not a major one, nor 20%

You should go look at the infusions and some of the non-MF gear stats ;-) Don’t forget to compare the new prefixes too.

Nice post OP and you stated all the reasons why I pre-purchased GW2.
I really really loved this game until this change was announced and I logged on to play even though I felt it was a really bad move.
This weekend proved all my fears as you can already see this change affecting the game.
The vibe in the game was always fun and players where happy to be there. Now the mood is ugly, players are angry and rude. The world map is dead, you cannot complete events.
I missed out on GW1, so today I went and bought two accounts.
I am hoping that that might be my new home and that it lasts longer than 3 months.
Sadly it is the same company so who knows.

Take this into the math btw. Way higher:
http://www.gw2db.com/items/71382-lunaria-circle-of-the-moon-infused

At any rate the point of this topic is not how higher the stats, but the mandatory grind and it will keep coming according to them: Gear grind is gear grind, it was not the expectations they set. They tell you something and do something else, you buy something and get something else. This is disrespectful. Being left in the dark is also disrespectful (not to mention it makes it look like they don’t know what they’re doing).

bigbobpataki.4796:

Now look up the stats on an infusion

ok: http://www.gw2db.com/items/72483-versatile-vital-infusion

+5 vitality, +5 agony resistance.

the +5 vitality will not make or break your character, and the agony resistance is useless outside of FotM since agony is not found anywhere else. Most of these infusions follow this pattern of +5 X state, +5 agnoy resistance.

so clearly more than 9% and it’s just the beginning. 9% is not trivial.

And thats only for 1 item. Someone with full ascended will have a massive advantage in WvW.

Totally agree.

GW2 is a failure. That is when compared to the Masterpiece called GW.

Why change a succesful formula ANET ?

Look at the playability of the original.

I have started playing it gain because i got bored with GW2

EVERYTHING THAT MADE THE ORIGINAL GREAT WAS REMOVED !!!

Henchmen
Missions
Customization
Inter character and interskill mixing
Unpredictability
Playability
Teams and Guilds

Now we have a game that will become Obsolete by New Years.

The orignal one has lasted almost a decade !

Sad, if you think how long it took them to develop GW2.

Ahhhhh…. back to GW.

bigbobpataki.4796:

Multiple threads where people have done the side by side math.

Ok, let do the side by side math.

Ascended ring: http://www.gw2db.com/items/71363-yakkingtons-ring

Yakkingtons Ring
51 Power
51 Precision
%10 Magic Find
+18 Precision
+18 Power

Unused Infusion Slot.

Total of 69 Power, 69 Precision, 10% magic find.

Exotic Ring: http://www.gw2db.com/items/58007-opal-orichalcum-ring

Opal Orichalcum Ring
+48 Power
+48 Precision
+3% Magic Find
and with an Exquiste opal Jewel
+15 Power
+15 Precision
+4% Magic find

Total of +63 Power, +63 Precision, +7% Magic find.

The ascended has 6 more power and precision and 3% more magic find.

63/69=.91

or the ascended has 9% more stats then the exotic, aside from the magic find. Its a boost, but not a major one, nor 20%

WRONG

Statistics with % are COMPOUNDING

It is a 9% increase on EACH Stat, and they have a 60% increase on Crit damage/ MF

It turns out to be a 50% increase on total stats, and a 60% increase on % based multipliers. NOT counting infusions either…

If I add 5% more lettuce to a Big Mac, it is now at 105% Ingredients.
If I add 5% more lettuce, bread, and meat to a Big Mac, it is now at 115% ingredients

Further explanation:
Take a game where the PVE gear and the PVP gear are the same except the PVE gear not only does 10% more damage to players but takes 10% less damage. That means players with the PVE gear have a 20% stat advantage over the PVP players. This is very related to our current situation in wvwvw.

If I am 6 feet tall and my calves grew 1 inch, now I am not 6 Foot 1 Inch, this means I grew 1 Inch. If my torso, thighs, neck, and calves grew 1 inch, you would not say I grew 1 inch, you would say I grew 4 inches.

This game is a complete grind. Even large scale events are turning into a grind.

I remember smiling like a little kid in a candy store when I first watched the Manifesto video…I feel lied to and betrayed quite honestly.

Harbard.5738:

“At the core of Guild Wars 2 is this simple concept. Respect for the player’s intelligence, respect for the player’s time, respect for the player’s investment, and respect, even reverence, for the genre.”

http://www.realmofgaming.com/reviews/pc/guildwars2/838.html

Respect for your intelligence: They tell you ascended is there to “fill the ‘gap’ between exotics and legendary”. Uhuh, right, all the sudden there’s a gap to be filled, folks! Then their initial response says a lot but gives no hard information on the future of the game. Don’t you find the double talk disrespectful?

Respect for your time: You follow the game for years, keep reading all that awesome “no grind” “is it fun?” “game we’d like to play” talk. It launches, it’s great, you invest 600+ hours into it thinking you’ll be playing an awesome game for years and BAM they bail on the game’s core ‘design philosophies’.

Respect for the player investment: Fully supportive players who have pre-purchased it after reading all the pretty blog posts can’t get a refund now they have decided to change the game.

Another link for your amusement:
http://www.arena.net/blog/the-golden-rules-of-guild-wars-2

“Respect the player

We respect you—as a player, as a human being. This game we’re making may end up competing with your real life. It might fight for your free time alongside your friends, your family, your work, and whatever else you might be doing. Because of that, we want to give you a meaningful experience, not one that is a vapid waste of your time. Whatever your reasons for spending time in Tyria, we don’t want to waste it by doing stuff that isn’t fun.

Purpose: To keep us honest"

If we can’t have the game that was sold, I think they should at least show us some respect in the coming communication.

Respect – a one time event that drops precursors and amazing accessories at a very very high rate that not everyone that plays gets a chance to do because it’s in such a narrow time frame. The event is one time only.

For me the Henchmen system is what ruined Guild Wars for me. It was nice in the Alpha when they didn’t have that system in place yet. kitten good memories from back then!

Guild Wars 2 on the other hand is amazing, but there’s a lot of things missing imo, but GW2 is still young and I bet in a year or two it’ll be a better title. I don’t really care if they’ll add gear progression or not to GW2, I love hunting for gear (everyone is different). Most of my friends (if not all of them) left GW2 for WoW like they did with GW1 because GW2 (and GW1) didn’t have any character progression which I agree with, the progression is shallow.

What I miss from GW though is the skill capture system and dual class system, those were great!

Very nice post OP.

They need to address the problems at hand before adding anything else.

Basically the problems I face with this game’s current design are:

Horizontal progression is gone: When this game launched I like many others were very happy to see here’s a company that won’t manipulate the numbers and will allow those of us who absolutely HATE dungeon crawling to be able to progress in the game without ever setting foot in a single dungeon.

So let’s recap: Magic Find gets murdered quietly without a single patch note warning us.The items normally used to gather resources for exotics from mobs in the open world are quietly removed or reduced to nothing. A special armor “Infused” is added and only drop from fractals as well as any parts needed to make Infused armors/weapons. The parts for making the new chests that we supposed to give us a chance at getting infused armor/weapons only come from chests or drop from inside the fractals or from the store. ALL of this happened in the past month and 1 week of updates.

So exactly how is this the manifesto again? Exactly how are those of us who despise dungeon runs, you know the majority of mmo players today, whom you attracted with the manifesto, how are we supposed to progress exactly? How is forcing us into doing dungeons giving us more options in gameplay? How is that giving us a broader progression? And more importantly how is preventing us from getting the materials we need to continue our crafting of these new items supposed to help us progress horizontally at the same rate that those who dungeon crawl are progressing?

And I’m not even touching on how broken Engineers are atm because there are bugs in this class that have been there since BWE that no one has addressed.

So exactly what is attractive about your game anymore Anet? Why should I as a PVE gathcraftsplorer login at all? Why have you done these things to completely make a 180 from your original design that was focused primarily on attracting players like me?

Heck I used to like ALL the content, especially WvW and dungeons. The new stuff is also brilliant, i loved the new dungeon. You see, it’s not hurting only your playstyle. It’s reaching just about EVERYONE who read those blog posts and thought “hey, finally a DIFFERENT mmo” in fact they were like “hey you’re gonna love it even if you hate mmos”. I mean geez, i just played all events and couldn’t have much fun anymore… all i see is how much potential wasted to this, erm “change of vision”.
RESPECT arenanet, RESPECT!

Nice post OP.

There’s a lot of respect being lost over here too. It’s a shame, because I looked forward to this game and had a lot of faith in what ANet said they were trying to achieve.

I just wish they would actually listen and fix the game before adding fluff, which seems to disappoint more than anything. ANet if you read this, please start by actually adding some variety to class builds! Your latest changes pigeon holing all thieves back into the FotM D/D BS build is almost game breaking for me.

I’ve totally lost interest in PvP at this point.