Guild Wars 2

This is not a topic of MegaServer feedback. I have already given my feedback on this topic in relation to Map chat in the appropriate thread. It is related to MegaServers however and this topic is designed more for a discussion. Also because I am curious about other cultures. I am a American so I have no idea what the culture is in Europe. I am also not multi-Langual.

I have read a lot about the problems happening with the MegaServer in relation to the non-English Home servers. I am genuinely curious now.

I am wondering if there is some sort of manner rule in Europe that in multi-language countries that a common language like English be defaulted to when speaking in public. Reason why I ask is multiple things that I have read gave me the impression that there is. If you say there is how did you come to the conclusion that was the case?

I know in America Spanish and other languages are spoken quite frequently especially in some areas. It does annoy some people it often used to annoy me. But there is no courtesy rule in regards to manners to only speak English in public. So the people that get annoyed listening to another language not knowing what they are saying generally have to just ignore it. I do and it used to bother me but does not anymore because I realized if you don’t understand the conversation you were not the intended recipient of the conversation anyways.

If there is a common courtesy rule for speaking a common language in public should that same common courtesy be followed in map chat on the MegaServer maps? If not why?

I can see it now for gaming communities in the USA; type 1 for english, 2 for spanish. -LOL, just had to go there, sorry.

I’m an European and no it’s not common in real life at all to speak English at a public place where people with different mother tongues are, except when talking to each other (simply because for example Italians don’t speak French and vice versa).

However, at least on the English servers it was always seen as common courtesy to type in English in map chat. No one got angry when there was a guild recruit message in another language every now and then, but generally map chat was always English. I guess people just need to get used to seeing different languages in map chat and maybe not everyone has realized yet that there are people from Spanish, French and German servers grouped with them in the same map and that those people are used to speaking Spanish/French/German in mapchat.

I’m hoping people will get over it, because I prefer a multilingual mapchat over an empty mapchat (even if I can’t read it – I can read a little French and decently German but not Spanish).

Some people (quite incredibly) at least in Spain, can’t speak English, by age or because they are still too young or because they refuse to learn. I do not know if it’s the same in France, Germany.

Guild Wars 2 has 4 official languages established for text (3 for audio), no one should get angry if other players write in their native language. If a Spanish or French player bought the game was maybe because pretend play on a server with the native language, if this has now changed unilaterally by ArenaNet, must be respect to all players.

anzenketh.3759:

If there is a common courtesy rule for speaking a common language in public should that same common courtesy be followed in map chat on the MegaServer maps? If not why?

A common courtesy rule ?
not really…

It’s better to speak english on international maps such as Megaserver maps or the former overflow maps because coordination is a lot easier. And I often speak english on chat just to avoid the typical clichés about my country -France- (frenchmen go surrender….. blabla…. white flags……).

But you can’t make it a rule… People will still use their native language. Why ?

• Gw 2 is rated Pegi 12. As a consequence, there are probably some 12-years-old players in EU. You can’t expect from them to speak fluently English.
  Even among the older players, speaking English isn’t that common.

• Some puns and play on words are actually a lot better in other languages.

• Because they can.

anzenketh.3759:

I am wondering if there is some sort of manner rule in Europe that in multi-language countries that a common language like English be defaulted to when speaking in public.

Well, I only know of one multi-language country (a country with more than one official language) in Europe, which is Switzerland.

The default for speaking in public is the official language (example: German in Germany) of the Country. And it is some kind of “manner rule” to try to speak the language of the Country you stay at the moment, especially if you are a guest in another Country, is considered as politeness. (“When in rome, do as the romans do”).

However, this is only a short overview. The language and cultural diversity is very high in Europe, so there are a lot of “specialities” and also some “animosities” between some cultures/countries/languages.

Greetings.

GW2 has a select number of supported languages, so it is useful to know at least one of them. It is preferred and considered courteous to publicly speak the native language of your server, but it’s common for players to seek out same-language guilds if you speak a language not supported by ArenaNet.

I don’t mind which languages people speak, ‘long as they don’t expect me to understand it. I wasn’t raised bilingual, unfortunately, and learning a new language at this point in my life would take time and effort I can’t commit to.

The main problem with the language on the megaserver is that not everyone can speak english. If they have a question they just ask in their native tongue.

I really don´t mind people using their mothertongue in mapchat, but witnessing someone getting insulted for not speaking english, that is where i draw the line.
For example: Someone asked something in german and got the answer which i will quote: “Sorry i don´t speak kitten, speak english.” OC that player got reported, but we all know that this is useless. Escpecially if it escalates to that level.
There is a reason some ppl choose an french, spanish or german server to begin with.

(Filter knows that word that got changed to kitten, for those who don´t get it: really evil people that did really evil things 70-75 years ago)

Another problem with this babylonian language mess is organising events like Teq or 3H-Wurm.
If your event zerg is split into 4 main fractions (english, french, german, spanish – all of these used to have their own servers) where a lot of people do not understand what the other 3 are saying, the event is destined to fail. And then the blaming and hate starts. This already used to happen a lot on the overflows for the living story events like scarlet’s marionette, now this is the standard game mode on the main maps.

Also don’t forget that there is a game mode called WvW that is a source of rivalry between servers that naturally carries over into PvE.
It’s like expecting fans of Real, PSG, Bayern and ManU to support a mixed european football team. Not going to happen.

And of course european history with thousands of years of intermittent wars (2 of theam spreading all over the world) and longstanding enmities does not help this cause.

Well i am a native german, but i have always stuck to the english speaking servers.
The current possibility of being put onto a german server is very much against my interest and therefor i see it a bit different.
At least for the german speaking part of the community i can say that a lot of them seem to ignore any languages except for german. Even if people group up with them and try to get them to speak english they refuse and ignore it.
It my have been that it was/is the same for french/spanish communities, but i can´t tell because i can´t read those languages.

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Another problem with this babylonian language mess is organising events like Teq or 3H-Wurm.
If your event zerg is split into 4 main fractions (english, french, german, spanish – all of these used to have their own servers) where a lot of people do not understand what the other 3 are saying, the event is destined to fail. And then the blaming and hate starts. This already used to happen a lot on the overflows for the living story events like scarlet’s marionette, now this is the standard game mode on the main maps.

Also don’t forget that there is a game mode called WvW that is a source of rivalry between servers that naturally carries over into PvE.
It’s like expecting fans of Real, PSG, Bayern and ManU to support a mixed european football team. Not going to happen.

Are there not other ways or tools to communicate though. If I am talking to someone who does not know English well I use my body language. Or get a translator.

Could I not do the equivalent of Body language using the Waypoint marker system. I would also not be surprised that there are people on the map willing or at least able to translate.

Reminder: This thread is not to give feedback for the MegaServer System the correct thread for that is https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Guild-World-Events-Megaservers-WvW/

The purpose of this thread is for understanding reactions and the correct way to respond in accordance with culture when confronted with Non-English speech and ways to deal with it.

Should not what language you use be determinant on your audience and what you speak?

Melanie.1240:

However, at least on the English servers it was always seen as common courtesy to type in English in map chat.

On a spanish server its common courtesy to speak spanish, german for a german server. Now megaserver maps are not english maps by default. The problem is most players bought the game to play a localized version using the language they selected. Now the new system is forcing them to deal with different languages.

The point that there are a lot players that have no knowledge of a second language was already mentioned a few times but there are thoose people that simply want to play the game using their language. While guesting on an english server i do it because i decided to play there but on megaserver no one gets asked if they want to switch to another language and i do understand thoose players that still want to use their native language.

The problem seems to be that there are 4 official languages supported by the game and now people of all those languages get mixed together expecting their “official” language to be official for that megaserver.

I am a native german too and I play on an international server but I have never encountered much hostility towards other languages used in chat, while english is used to be understood by the biggest possible audience. But I think people are maybe a bit more relaxed because they know what to expect when joining an international server which isn’t the case for those who just get mixed together without having an influence on which server they get placed.

Edit: Btw I wouldn’t be all to happy if I got placed on a german only speaking server too even if this is my mother tongue because I choose an international/ english speaking server for a reason.

It is considered a matter of courtesy to speak the language that everybody present can understand, be it English or something else, depending on the situation – in real life. If you and your friends can all speak Italian, for example, you will use Italian if even one Italian who cannot understand your native language is present, even when speaking with each other and even when the discussion does not involve the guest. Not doing so is rude. For the most part, that’s how it is on TeamSpeak as well. My German friends speak English when I’m on their channel, even when there are 10 of them and 1 of little me. In mapchat tho, you’ll see anything. You’re expected to use the official language in the home maps of a “regional” server (German, French, Spanish), whereas international servers are a free-for-all, though English is the de facto language of choice, simply because that’s what most people understand. Those who don’t, might have a bad time with this megaserver business. As for the insults… yeah. Anonymity can bring out the worst in people. Eventually, the bratwurst and baguette jokes will grow old.

Name.9625:

Well i am a native german, but i have always stuck to the english speaking servers.
The current possibility of being put onto a german server is very much against my interest and therefor i see it a bit different.
At least for the german speaking part of the community i can say that a lot of them seem to ignore any languages except for german. Even if people group up with them and try to get them to speak english they refuse and ignore it.
It my have been that it was/is the same for french/spanish communities, but i can´t tell because i can´t read those languages.

I second that, the day I will be forced into a german speaking environment by IP is the day I will quit. As for our countrymen in international groups and maps: EVERY german has english as a first foreign language right after elementary school, the trend is even going younger. Ignorance is no excuse here, it is just arrogance.

For me, having lots of different languages in mapchat makes it harder to follow the english comments I look for, when organising or following an event. Maybe Im not used to it, that it will be easier with time, I dont know.
I have nothing against other languages or people who speak them, as I am a “foreigner” too. English isnt my first language.
As for courtesy or rules, I find it very rude to use language not all understand in partychat. As in real life, for me it is normal to use a language all around a table can understand, excuse myself if I need to talk my language for some reason, and explain what was said afterwards.
I understand that not all can or like to speak english, theres a lot of things I find hard to explain in english. That someone want to ask/clarify something in their native tounge is natural. But a long conversasion would for me best be taken in privat. Wich of course is impossible when there is whole communities sharing chat.

Algreg.3629:

Name.9625:

Well i am a native german, but i have always stuck to the english speaking servers.
The current possibility of being put onto a german server is very much against my interest and therefor i see it a bit different.
At least for the german speaking part of the community i can say that a lot of them seem to ignore any languages except for german. Even if people group up with them and try to get them to speak english they refuse and ignore it.
It my have been that it was/is the same for french/spanish communities, but i can´t tell because i can´t read those languages.

I second that, the day I will be forced into a german speaking environment by IP is the day I will quit. As for our countrymen in international groups and maps: EVERY german has english as a first foreign language right after elementary school, the trend is even going younger. Ignorance is no excuse here, it is just arrogance.

This is not true. You can still pick Latin or French as the 1st foreign language in a lot of schools, then continue with e.g. Spanish as the 2nd. And some decades ago it was possible to get your Abitur without ever attaining a single English lesson.

Also there are a lot of people aged 30+ that play this game. Their last English lesson (if they even had any) is decades ago and let’s be honest, if you never use a foreign language outside of school, you forget it very fast.
Being forced to speak a language they don’t know or hardly remember makes most people feel very uncomfortable or embarassed. Especially when there was no need to do it before the patch.

Using a language that isn’t understood by all people around you is mostly considered impolite. So let’s say you’re living in germany and you go to a bar with some friends and one of them would show up with his new girlfriend, who is from france and doesn’t know german – and yes, I really had a similar situation some months ago. Even if those two usually spoke french when they were alone, the whole group would probably switch to english, as it probably would be the most common language. You don’t want to exclude anyone from the conversation.

But let’s say that bar had its “spanish evening” today, where all the spanish folks living in the city gather up to chat in their mother tongue. Would you expect from them to switch to english, too? Especially if your group is the minority? What if suddenly a large group of guys comes in, who speak nothing but english?

As made up that last paragraph sounds, that’s the experience I currently have with megaservers. It’s neither impoliteness nor arrogance that causes all these problems, it’s the constant change of the environment that causes confusion and frustration.

I’m an American living in China, and have had numerous experiences of language barriers, mostly because I’m in an area where few people speak any other language than Mandarin, or the local dialect. While I can get by with a few words (girlfriend is slowly teaching me Mandarin) most of communication is by hand movements, such as pointing. On the megaservers, it’s going to happen where some people don’t speak English, the generally accepted global language, will not be able to communicate. They don’t have the luxury of hand movements that do to try to communicate. Instead, they will be stuck with following the zerg to whatever. Now, as I play on the NA servers, I’m not likely to come across these people as often, but, it WILL be a problem on the EU servers.

aRestless.6213:

Using a language that isn’t understood by all people around you is mostly considered impolite.

No language is understood by all people, that’s the whole issue.

The part i don´t get is the rudeness of some people and their use of stereotypes.
If it is in an friendly teasing way then it is ok. On our Alliance teamspeak for example, we have people from around the world but mostly from europe present. The understanding of the english language is an requirement there, as for the simple fact that when we organise an event everybody needs to understand what the Commanders say. As long as thats a given, everybody is welcome.
For those who can´t understand english, there are other language specific communities out there with the same goal.
When we guest on an language specific server for our event we point directions for the indeginous people in two different languages, english and the native one wich is either french or german.
If it is in german i don´t require a interpreter from our guild, i write it in german and english in the say-/mapchat. Today for example we guested on an french server and some kind soul from our Alliance translated everything i wrote in the mapchat into french so no one feels left out.
On an overflow or international server we just stick to english for obvious reasons.
There were never any problems, flame or hate about that approach.
A few puns here and there but that´s about it. Nothing hostile.
But what i witnessed on the Megaserver today is unbearable.
As far as i am concerned we will never do our events on a megaserver map.
First of all because we need a empty map to fit between 100-150 people in, which is impossible there.
Second, we will not translate everything we say in french, polish, german, czech, portugese, greek, spanish, russian and whatnot so no one feels left out. Too much hassle and there still will be someone who moans then.

As for the english thing, i am well aware that not everyone is able to speak english. I know enough people in the real world that have this problem. Some, especially the older ones never learned it, some of the younger ones simply do not care, some between 30 and 50 forgot it because they never used it.

I myself grew up with three different languages, none of it english. That i had to learn in school.
But to be honest, the english you learn there is pretty much useless. After i finished school i had a 5 year period in which i never came in contact with english, so i forgot almost everything. I learned it out of necessity and personal interest again and i am fluent now (with an accent of course).
But that is the exception.
From the people in my surroundings are only around 5-10% fluent, ~20% able to speak english (if you can call it that) and another ~20% that can at least understand it a bit. The rest speaks for itself. Pardon the pun.
I think this pretty much mirrors the conditions we have on the megaserver right now with all these languages mixed together.

The best we can do is just ignore what you can´t understand and be friendly.
Sooner or later Anet will hopefully fix this issue. At least they said so already.
No one needs nationalist or racist comments in the chat.
I will just report everyone that does that and admonish everyone to be at least civil.

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Algreg.3629:

Name.9625:

Well i am a native german, but i have always stuck to the english speaking servers.
The current possibility of being put onto a german server is very much against my interest and therefor i see it a bit different.
At least for the german speaking part of the community i can say that a lot of them seem to ignore any languages except for german. Even if people group up with them and try to get them to speak english they refuse and ignore it.
It my have been that it was/is the same for french/spanish communities, but i can´t tell because i can´t read those languages.

I second that, the day I will be forced into a german speaking environment by IP is the day I will quit. As for our countrymen in international groups and maps: EVERY german has english as a first foreign language right after elementary school, the trend is even going younger. Ignorance is no excuse here, it is just arrogance.

This is not true. You can still pick Latin or French as the 1st foreign language in a lot of schools, then continue with e.g. Spanish as the 2nd. And some decades ago it was possible to get your Abitur without ever attaining a single English lesson.

Also there are a lot of people aged 30+ that play this game. Their last English lesson (if they even had any) is decades ago and let’s be honest, if you never use a foreign language outside of school, you forget it very fast.
Being forced to speak a language they don’t know or hardly remember makes most people feel very uncomfortable or embarassed. Especially when there was no need to do it before the patch.

Well I tend to disagree. I am located close to the french border, so my first foreign language was french in elementary school. Tho with the approach of the 5th grade i was taught english up to my A-levels. During that period you usually have the choice of another foreign language.
What you mean is the situation when you approach some of the schools that teach greek/latin from grade 5 and then switch to english on grade 7. Tho during my school time english was taught on every school in the entire country.

And for the point that some may had their last english lesson 15+ years ago i can´t really say that i am sorry. If they don´t understand english while playing with the possibilities of encountering non-german speakers, then they have more than one reason to learn it. I generally find it hard to believe that some people here in germany don´t understand or speak any english at all. It may be broken at times and very very basic, but it still gets the point.

But i stand with Algreg here, the day Anet is forcing me into a native german Megaserver i´ll stop playing. Even in GW1 i was already not playing in the german parts of the game and i deliberately continued that in GW2.

Algreg.3629:

EVERY german has english as a first foreign language right after elementary school, the trend is even going younger.

That’s not exactly true for some “older” players. When I was at school I could have chosen French as my first language and English two years later.

To make it short and I think most of the German (or French or Spanish) players will think the same. If you are on a German server you want to speak German and they don’t care if they are on a megaserver and there could be people from other countries who don’t understand German.

Algreg.3629:

Name.9625:

Well i am a native german, but i have always stuck to the english speaking servers.
The current possibility of being put onto a german server is very much against my interest and therefor i see it a bit different.
At least for the german speaking part of the community i can say that a lot of them seem to ignore any languages except for german. Even if people group up with them and try to get them to speak english they refuse and ignore it.
It my have been that it was/is the same for french/spanish communities, but i can´t tell because i can´t read those languages.

I second that, the day I will be forced into a german speaking environment by IP is the day I will quit. As for our countrymen in international groups and maps: EVERY german has english as a first foreign language right after elementary school, the trend is even going younger. Ignorance is no excuse here, it is just arrogance.

I have to disagree with you.
1) It is not the first foreign language for every pupil.
2) Claiming that people are to arrogant to talk in english itself is quite arrogant; I am able to fluently speak english, having worked for an english company for several years, knowing a lot of english people, I am the guy doing english translations in my company. I chose to play this game because it is available with a german UI, I chose to play on a german server because it is my mother tongue. I cannot see something arrogant in there, only something self-identifying.

It is funny to me reading that when somebody talks in a language that you don’t understand, it bothers you… XD. Man, you should learn another languages, not complain about that you don’t understand them.
Do you know that the language more used in the world is chinese, followed by spanish and english is just the 3rd one?

In europe we are very used to that language/culture differences: in a relative small place like europe, we have soooo many different cultures and languages, and we have sooooo many years of history (good and bad) behind us that is pretty ussual to be curious about your neighbours, their culture and their languages. Im from Spain, so my mother tongue is spanish, but I also know english and if somebody talks to me in french, portuguese and italian, probably I will understand what they are saying (thought I have to admit that i would not be able to reply in those languages). And i am just a random spanish guy. German to me is a lot more different (and complicated) so i can only say and understand words whithout context XD.
But if somebody talks in german, it wont bother me. I just would wish to know german.
Just talking about Spain, only in Spain there are 4 official languages (spanish, gallego, catalan and euskera) and a lot of different accents and modified words: even talking spanish, a person will speak differently if they are from northen areas than if you are from the south, like happens in USA with southern areas and northern ones.
A similar thing happen to the rest of europe, france have more languages tahn french, belgium has 2 languages…

So, the thing is that we all in europe are aware of the different cultures and languages since we born. So the first thing we do is to learn our mother tongue, and then the others until the point you decide is enough.

As you comented in your post, i think is a cultural thing: all the english speaker people that I know (from UK, New Zealand and USA) only knew english. thats it. And only the ones from UK were a little ashamed about it XD.
I undersand why english people don’t bother to learn something outside of english: they don’t need it, because the rest of the world knows that language (it is pretty easy to learn).
But we live in a global world…
In any case, dont believe that english is a common language in the world… it is just the easiest to learn, and a garantee that you will be able to comunicate with others, if you dont know their language.

I use to watch a lot of US tv, and i am remembering “The amazing race” and how fustrated and even kittened off some contestants get when they go for example to china and they dont know or dont whant to speak in english…. XD. Information is power, and to be able to comunicate and understand other languages is part of that. I think all europe knows that (except UK)

Said all that, I think my point is clear: megaserver wont be a mayor issue. in overflows people speak english if they want to be understood by anyone, and in megaservers i think it will be exactly the same.

it depends on the country/region. the Scandinavian and Nordic countries usually speak and write very good English, and that has to do with the fact that imported TV shows are not dubbed, they’re subtitled. i.e. every time you watch an American blockbuster or a hit tv show, you hear English and read the translation at the same time. However, in France, Germany, Italy and Spain they’re dubbed. People just don’t hear English in their everyday life. Then, when you move more eastward, there the “lingua franca” is either German or Russian, though it’s shifting rapidly to English nowadays.

Also, having been born in the Soviet Union, I can say from experience that most people do NOT take well to “govorite po chelovechesky” (=“speak like a human being”) as a response to speaking one’s mother tongue, whatever language that statement is made in. Yes, having a common language to communicate in is convenient. No, forcing it on people is not acceptable.

anzenketh.3759:

I am wondering if there is some sort of manner rule in Europe that in multi-language countries that a common language like English be defaulted to when speaking in public.

Not really. You have to understand, that a majority of Europeans in general (and a large part of EU internet users) simply do not understand english at all. And using english would hardly be considered a manner rule if you happened to be in a country with different native language (which is almost all of them).

Using english is usually considered good manners in network communities, assuming the community is international, and no language options exist This is not the case in GW2 EU – there are 3 other “official” options: german, french and spanish. Each of those language options has at least one server dedicated to it (and on those servers good manners would mandate speaking in said language, not english).

anzenketh.3759:

If there is a common courtesy rule for speaking a common language in public should that same common courtesy be followed in map chat on the MegaServer maps? If not why?

First, as i said, there’s no real general common courtesy rule. If megaserver merged only international servers, there might have been a basis for considering speaking english as good manners, but since they are made up of people from all possible language servers, it’s simply not viable. Lot of german, french and spanish players do not even know english (and they shouldn’t be expected to know it – they signed on their language server, after all).

Halvorn.9831:

Algreg.3629:

Name.9625:

Well i am a native german, but i have always stuck to the english speaking servers.
The current possibility of being put onto a german server is very much against my interest and therefor i see it a bit different.
At least for the german speaking part of the community i can say that a lot of them seem to ignore any languages except for german. Even if people group up with them and try to get them to speak english they refuse and ignore it.
It my have been that it was/is the same for french/spanish communities, but i can´t tell because i can´t read those languages.

I second that, the day I will be forced into a german speaking environment by IP is the day I will quit. As for our countrymen in international groups and maps: EVERY german has english as a first foreign language right after elementary school, the trend is even going younger. Ignorance is no excuse here, it is just arrogance.

I have to disagree with you.
1) It is not the first foreign language for every pupil.
2) Claiming that people are to arrogant to talk in english itself is quite arrogant; I am able to fluently speak english, having worked for an english company for several years, knowing a lot of english people, I am the guy doing english translations in my company. I chose to play this game because it is available with a german UI, I chose to play on a german server because it is my mother tongue. I cannot see something arrogant in there, only something self-identifying.

Well i am speaking about the servers that were not marked as German Servers. And out of the same reason you chose a german UI, i decided to go with an english one. And i always stayed on the english/international servers. Tho with the new update i am put back into megaservers crowded with germans.
And i can´t say that i like that.

Name.9625:

Halvorn.9831:

Algreg.3629:

Name.9625:

Well i am a native german, but i have always stuck to the english speaking servers.
The current possibility of being put onto a german server is very much against my interest and therefor i see it a bit different.
At least for the german speaking part of the community i can say that a lot of them seem to ignore any languages except for german. Even if people group up with them and try to get them to speak english they refuse and ignore it.
It my have been that it was/is the same for french/spanish communities, but i can´t tell because i can´t read those languages.

I second that, the day I will be forced into a german speaking environment by IP is the day I will quit. As for our countrymen in international groups and maps: EVERY german has english as a first foreign language right after elementary school, the trend is even going younger. Ignorance is no excuse here, it is just arrogance.

I have to disagree with you.
1) It is not the first foreign language for every pupil.
2) Claiming that people are to arrogant to talk in english itself is quite arrogant; I am able to fluently speak english, having worked for an english company for several years, knowing a lot of english people, I am the guy doing english translations in my company. I chose to play this game because it is available with a german UI, I chose to play on a german server because it is my mother tongue. I cannot see something arrogant in there, only something self-identifying.

Well i am speaking about the servers that were not marked as German Servers. And out of the same reason you chose a german UI, i decided to go with an english one. And i always stayed on the english/international servers. Tho with the new update i am put back into megaservers crowded with germans.
And i can´t say that i like that.

Which can be summed up easily: both of us do not like to be forced into an environment we originally decided to stay away from. ANet failed on both of us.

Zok.4956:

anzenketh.3759:

I am wondering if there is some sort of manner rule in Europe that in multi-language countries that a common language like English be defaulted to when speaking in public.

Well, I only know of one multi-language country (a country with more than one official language) in Europe, which is Switzerland.

The default for speaking in public is the official language (example: German in Germany) of the Country. And it is some kind of “manner rule” to try to speak the language of the Country you stay at the moment, especially if you are a guest in another Country, is considered as politeness. (“When in rome, do as the romans do”).

However, this is only a short overview. The language and cultural diversity is very high in Europe, so there are a lot of “specialities” and also some “animosities” between some cultures/countries/languages.

Greetings.

Just wanted to add, Ireland is also a multi-national language country ..with both English and Irish being spoken here.
__
@ OP;
Id say the majority of people in game speak English(if not fluently) so its generally easier for communicatio if everyone speaks English.
But anet really didnt consider EU and multi-languages in one region with their megaserver……

It’s not true that English is a or the common language you learn in school – not now, not then. Not eg. in former Eastern Germany nor in Italy or France. It may be polite to select English as language if you have a big group of people from different countries, but it also may polite to chose French, German, Russian or Italian – depends on the given situation. Most people from France speak English in a way you have biiig problems to understand at all – or even recognize it as English, most – if not all – people from UK don’t know anything but English. Italians understand Spanish quite well, but it’s just because Spanish and Italian are closely related to each other. Those languages are romance unlike English, which is.. a mixture of germanic, romanic, slavic, celtic and Anglo-Saxon. Esp. people from UK are completely lost if the map chat is french or german and often start to get very.. uncouthly.
If those megaservers stay as they are now, Anet MUST implement some kind of language specific map channels or split those megaservers to the four default languages the game offers and give players a choice to switch to an international mega-instance.
After all, Anet won’t save the amount of server instances as they expected, but well, Europe is simply a more complex and fragile entity as the US-focused developers thought.. ^^

Algreg.3629:

As for our countrymen in international groups and maps: EVERY german has english as a first foreign language right after elementary school, the trend is even going younger.

Maybe you should broaden your horizon a little outside of your peer group.

I know of two dozen german players myself who can read a little bit of english but are not fluent enough that they can write in english, so I have to do some translating for them (I am not that good myself). Writing in english takes more time than in the mother tongue. Translating takes time. Typing takes time. In some events there is not enough time for this without beeing killed.

Algreg.3629:

Ignorance is no excuse here, it is just arrogance.

Yes. totally. But this goes both ways.

Greetings.

anzenketh.3759:

Are there not other ways or tools to communicate though. If I am talking to someone who does not know English well I use my body language. Or get a translator.

All this takes time. time that gets you killed by a mob/boss.

anzenketh.3759:

The purpose of this thread is for understanding reactions and the correct way to respond in accordance with culture when confronted with Non-English speech and ways to deal with it.
Should not what language you use be determinant on your audience and what you speak?

Yes. Some example:

When I call someone in the netherlands on the phone, of course I try first some words in dutch and ask then later if we could change to english.

It then happens a lot that the person on the phone, realising that I am german (a lot of people in the netherlands understand german), switches to german and then we speak german.

This is a friendly und polite manner of both sides.

If I called someone in the netherlands and talk german right from the start, this could be realised as really bad manner/behaviour and the person on the other side, of course, does not understand german (even if he/she does).

On the other hand, If someone calls me and wants to sell me something, I expect him/her to try to speak german with me. It is then up to me to “allow” to switch to english.

But the relationship is not only “player vs player” but also “game vs player”.

GW2 “promised” (in some way) that this game is (also) in german with a german speaking community and with servers in german language. So people play this game that have problems with english. And now the megaserver technology forces (in some way) this players to use english. So it is less fun and more “work” (because of languages problems). And people feel also betrayed.

Greetings.

Taygus.4571:

Just wanted to add, Ireland is also a multi-national language country ..with both English and Irish being spoken here.

Belgium as well. The official languages in Belgium are French, Dutch and German.

Halvorn.9831:

Name.9625:

Halvorn.9831:

Algreg.3629:

Name.9625:

Well i am a native german, but i have always stuck to the english speaking servers.
The current possibility of being put onto a german server is very much against my interest and therefor i see it a bit different.
At least for the german speaking part of the community i can say that a lot of them seem to ignore any languages except for german. Even if people group up with them and try to get them to speak english they refuse and ignore it.
It my have been that it was/is the same for french/spanish communities, but i can´t tell because i can´t read those languages.

I second that, the day I will be forced into a german speaking environment by IP is the day I will quit. As for our countrymen in international groups and maps: EVERY german has english as a first foreign language right after elementary school, the trend is even going younger. Ignorance is no excuse here, it is just arrogance.

I have to disagree with you.
1) It is not the first foreign language for every pupil.
2) Claiming that people are to arrogant to talk in english itself is quite arrogant; I am able to fluently speak english, having worked for an english company for several years, knowing a lot of english people, I am the guy doing english translations in my company. I chose to play this game because it is available with a german UI, I chose to play on a german server because it is my mother tongue. I cannot see something arrogant in there, only something self-identifying.

Well i am speaking about the servers that were not marked as German Servers. And out of the same reason you chose a german UI, i decided to go with an english one. And i always stayed on the english/international servers. Tho with the new update i am put back into megaservers crowded with germans.
And i can´t say that i like that.

Which can be summed up easily: both of us do not like to be forced into an environment we originally decided to stay away from. ANet failed on both of us.

They most definitely did. And with the current state of the megaservers i find it absolutely outrageous that i would have to transfer over to an NA server to get back into that kind of community i want to be in. Not only considering the costs for transfering 2 accounts, but also the lag.

Zok.4956:

Algreg.3629:

As for our countrymen in international groups and maps: EVERY german has english as a first foreign language right after elementary school, the trend is even going younger.

Maybe you should broaden your horizon a little outside of your peer group.

I know of two dozen german players myself who can read a little bit of english but are not fluent enough that they can write in english, so I have to do some translating for them (I am not that good myself). Writing in english takes more time than in the mother tongue. Translating takes time. Typing takes time. In some events there is not enough time for this without beeing killed.

Algreg.3629:

Ignorance is no excuse here, it is just arrogance.

Yes. totally. But this goes both ways.

Greetings.

broaden your horizon rather applies to people not willing to engage a conversation in a language they should know in this case. I am not talking about writing a thesis on the power pattern in Shakespeare´s Tempest here, but the very basic language that is used in a mmorpg. And yes, there are a few schools that choose french first, but that does not change the fact that no German can bypass english lessons at an early age. As for eastern germans – well, that applies to people past a rather high age as of now, english has replaced russian in importance by far and long ago.

Taygus.4571:

Just wanted to add, Ireland is also a multi-national language country ..with both English and Irish being spoken here.

Heh, so’s the UK, with Welsh, Scots Gaelic and Irish Gaelic recognised as official regional languages. There’s also Scots, though that’s just a broader Geordie dialect!

Oh, and there’s also Manx and Cornish which are starting to regain ground in their respective regions though they’re not official languages yet – probably due to the fact that’s there’s only 300 or so speakers of each and no real push made for official recognition.

Algreg.3629:

Zok.4956:

Algreg.3629:

As for our countrymen in international groups and maps: EVERY german has english as a first foreign language right after elementary school, the trend is even going younger.

Maybe you should broaden your horizon a little outside of your peer group.

I know of two dozen german players myself who can read a little bit of english but are not fluent enough that they can write in english, so I have to do some translating for them (I am not that good myself). Writing in english takes more time than in the mother tongue. Translating takes time. Typing takes time. In some events there is not enough time for this without beeing killed.

Algreg.3629:

Ignorance is no excuse here, it is just arrogance.

Yes. totally. But this goes both ways.

Greetings.

broaden your horizon rather applies to people not willing to engage a conversation in a language they should know in this case. I am not talking about writing a thesis on the power pattern in Shakespeare´s Tempest here, but the very basic language that is used in a mmorpg. And yes, there are a few schools that choose french first, but that does not change the fact that no German can bypass english lessons at an early age. As for eastern germans – well, that applies to people past a rather high age as of now, english has replaced russian in importance by far and long ago.

So basically you’re saying:

- “high age” people have no place in this game
- people from the former Warsaw pact countries have no place in this game
- the required language for a game that has been localized to a specific language and even has dedicated servers is english?

You sir are the one who needs to broaden your horizon.

And as a side note, I work for an American company here in Germany, and even they, who are usually accused of forcing “their” language unto others , have realised that there is a lot more profit to be made if you speak the local language, especially past the EU’s eastern borders.
There is a reason software companies spend lots of resources and money to localize games.

Algreg.3629:

broaden your horizon rather applies to people not willing to engage a conversation in a language they should know in this case.

If you are fine with english, good. I do not force you to play in german. If others are fine with german, why do you want to force them to use a language, they are not comfortable with? “they should know” seems like some form of “Oberlehrer” behaviour.

This discussion would not exist, if GW2 was “all english only” from the start on. Everyone who wanted to play and buy this game, but was not comfortable or able to use english, would have stayed away from the game and would not have bought it.

Algreg.3629:

well, that applies to people past a rather high age as of now, english has replaced russian in importance by far and long ago.

When I was 12, a 18 year old was “rather high age”, when I was 18, a 30 year old was “rather high age”, when I was 30, a 50 year old was “rather high age”.

I see people from 12 to around 50 (and above) are playing this game and some of them have definitely problems to express themselves in english und use the language actively.

These language problems may not fit in your world view, but they exist nonetheless.

Greetings.

Name.9625:

But i stand with Algreg here, the day Anet is forcing me into a native german Megaserver i´ll stop playing. Even in GW1 i was already not playing in the german parts of the game and i deliberately continued that in GW2.

You say that you will stop playing if you are forced into a german server but at the same time others are not allowed to have a similar attitude for being forced into an english server? That doesn’t seem to be fair.

..and back to the topic of english at school. Most players form eastern germany that are 35+ had russion at school and hardly any english. The number for younger players gets smaller but i still know a few people 20+ that hardly had english at school. Some of them just 3 years and thats hardly sufficient for a decent communication. In addition we have the younger players at 12+. At the age of 12 you have your first english lesseons. You can’t expect thoose players to speak english.

@Malkav, i might add that nowadays most of the german “youglings” can´t even speak proper german (don´t even ask about the written language). From them i really don´t expect to speak english at all.

Thareen.5471:

@Malkav, i might add that nowadays most of the german “youglings” can´t even speak proper german (don´t even ask about the written language). From them i really don´t expect to speak english at all.

“yah, mon, plz tell teh groop abut grammer. fekin fancy pants, I killz all teh mobz wit mah awsumness”

it’s not only a German problem For that matter, it’s not even a problem of the gaming world. The times I’ve had to tell new employees that txtspiik is not acceptable in the office…

I feel i’m in a different game and excluded from the Community when everybody where i am is speaking French or Deutsche.

As they now don’t care to respect other players speaking English on the global chats, other players may remain silent because there’s people speaking their mother languages on the global chats.

I worked with tourists for several years and the chance of finding a German who spoke English was fairly small, this was also true of Spanish groups that I had contact with. The younger (late teens/early twenties) ages had a higher chance with both German and Spanish and older than 70 German speakers also had working English. Outside those groups and you where stuck with pantomime. That said I am really glad I did not need to learn English later in life because frankly it is not easy.

Anzenketh, you asked about how we deal in real life in a multi-lingual environment.

I think I can answer that.

I’m a Belgian of nationality and I live in Belgium. In Belgium there three official languages: Dutch (mostly in its Flemish variant), French and German. English is also known amongst the younger generation (aged under 40).

I, personnally, can speak fluently French, Flemish and English.

When I go somewhere, I first listen and check what language is used. I adapt to that and use that language. When I don’t understand the people because they use another language, I ask if we can use a middle-ground, usually by naming the three languages I know in the language they use (because I learned the names). Then if we can agree on one language, we go further. But this is a whole concept of negociation between willing people.

The problem here is not that people use different languages: it’s that when people are at home, they mostly want to use their language. People had a hard day, translating for some is a real work for the brain and they just cannot afford that at that moment. We often forget that: people are at home playing to relax. Okay, they want to do some challenging content that requires coordination and people in their own language are not present in high numbers to do that content, so they are a little forced to use another language. So they adapt, but not really willingly: it’s only because their will to do the content is bigger than their will to stick to one language.

The language negociation is something quite complex that relies on the knowledge of the people, the interest they have in speaking another language and their will to do so.

Come the megaservers.

Suddenly their map chat is not understandable. People are comfy at home and the game puts on them a whole level of language negociation that was not something they are used to. Most know some words in the other languages, but they don’t want to use that language (because they didn’t have to before that) or they don’t know enough of that language. Why the hell should they use another language when they bought the localized game in their local store with a box in their local language, and on top of that ArenaNet gave them language-specific servers (it’s one of the first thing they see when they install and play the game).

Now ArenaNet is removing the language-specific servers. How should people react? Well, they’re still comfy at home and their preference isn’t taken in account anymore: they registered on a language-specific server to be able to not have to speak another language and they are forced into that. If I didn’t know English, I’d thought ArenaNet would have broken a promise and I would strongly ask for a refund of the game. Yes, even 1.5 years in the game.

Now people are trying to settle this issue by forcing people into their language of preference (usually English) as middle-ground. This is bad. People are still comfy in their chair and you are forcing them to make efforts they didn’t have to do and they now don’t want to do. So you should think about those people: why shouldn’t the other people speak their language? Oh, but everybody is making an effort to speak English, isn’t that some middle ground? No, not everybody is making an effort to speak English: Brits are the first amongst those, so they come back to their first question: why should they make any effort as well?

The main thing with the megaserver here isn’t that there is some discussion about what language to use, but rather that such a choice has to be made. ArenaNet is removing something granted for more than 1.5 years.

This, of course, doesn’t apply to people who are already on international servers because they consciously made the choice to play a game that was available only in 4 languages and potentially not theirs, but that’s only a bit more than half the people of EU (assuming the same number of people on each server).

I think it is very bad for us players to not respect players who bought this game in their local language and choose a homeworld in their local language. They should be able to use that language in map chat. It does not hurt us. It only increases the problems already existing with the megaserver (like organising events) if we do not respect this. And I think it is rather arrogant of the English speaking players to request of the other players to speak English as well. Do you change to French, German or Spanish when the majority of the players on the map are speaking that language? Are you capable to do so?

In overflows and megaserver maps I have no issue seeing one of those 3 languages or guild recruitment in any language. I am not able to write well enough in any of those 3 languages, but when I understand a question that is asked in that language I will answer in English just in case the person speaks that. Sometimes ended up having quite nice conversations that way.

I understand the issue of having several languages piled together on a map, but lets not increase this problem with our attitude of English > other languages.

Malkav.9867:

..and back to the topic of english at school. Most players form eastern germany that are 35+ had russion at school and hardly any english. The number for younger players gets smaller but i still know a few people 20+ that hardly had english at school. Some of them just 3 years and thats hardly sufficient for a decent communication. In addition we have the younger players at 12+. At the age of 12 you have your first english lesseons. You can’t expect thoose players to speak english.

This is absolutely true, the minimum three years are far from enough for working communications, especially if those people have a hard time with foreign languages anyway. Furthermore, school english and what you need for an everyday conversation are often … misaligned.
I’ve also got the impression that Germany is still in a quite good spot concerning english as a foreign language. If I think of what I experienced in France both in school at the age of ~16 and in university in master courses (in biosciences, where decent english is absolutely required for survival!), that was worse than anything I’ve experienced here, by a fair margin.

So, in short: Anyone expecting/postulating that everyone on the european megaservers must speak english is either extremely stupid, highly ignorant or boundlessly arrogant. The old language-specific servers have been here for good reason.

I am on a multinational european server from start and there it was usual people asking questions in different languages in map chat and hoping for an answer, if they can not speak english.

There are/were guilds catering for different languages, advertising their guild in their language and doing activities in their respective language.
Spanish, French, Italian, German, Russian, Polish, Serbian I think and Hungarian, Dutch and maybe some other I am sorry I can not identify.

If you liked that atmosphere and the mix, you would pick a Server like that.

I do.

But I do have friends who migrated off to or started specifically on a national language server, because they felt more immersed there with the game and more comfortable with it.

So now I get confuddled, when we talk Gamestats or Maplocations and stuff and they use the national name an I use the english one [I find the translations quite uhm…weird] – and the other way round is the same.

I totally can understand that it makes people very uncomfortable, if they chose not to be in this situation.
and if people are uncomfortable they often react agressively or unfriendly.

not nice but true.

aRestless.6213:

Using a language that isn’t understood by all people around you is mostly considered impolite.

……

But let’s say that bar had its “spanish evening” today, where all the spanish folks living in the city gather up to chat in their mother tongue. Would you expect from them to switch to english, too? Especially if your group is the minority? What if suddenly a large group of guys comes in, who speak nothing but english?

As made up that last paragraph sounds, that’s the experience I currently have with megaservers. It’s neither impoliteness nor arrogance that causes all these problems, it’s the constant change of the environment that causes confusion and frustration.

What happens if it is a mixture of both and you have no idea who is in the majority. Should you not speak in reference to your audience. If your audience is both languages should you not get a interpreter. However I understand that it may not be optimal. For that reason I am glad ArenaNet is looking for a solution to the problem.

Silicato.4603:

It is funny to me reading that when somebody talks in a language that you don’t understand, it bothers you… XD. Man, you should learn another languages, not complain about that you don’t understand them.

Do you know that the language more used in the world is chinese, followed by spanish and english is just the 3rd one?

…….

I understand why English people don’t bother to learn something outside of English: they don’t need it, because the rest of the world knows that language (it is pretty easy to learn).
But we live in a global world…
In any case, don’t believe that English is a common language in the world… it is just the easiest to learn, and a guarantee that you will be able to communicate with others, if you don’t know their language.

….

Said all that, I think my point is clear: Megaserver wont be a mayor issue. in overflows people speak English if they want to be understood by anyone, and in Megaservers i think it will be exactly the same.

If your post is directed at me. I said it did(past tense) bother me. I don’t feel it does anymore for reasons stated in my first post. If it does it is mostly due to it is something unusual. It is possible as more Spanish speakers immigrate to our country that America will start making it a requirement to learn another language. It is also possible that America may in time get a official language and it will likely be English. They currently do not. It sounds like in Europe another language is learned more as a requirement due to culture and business reasons. In America there is no such need.

Currently in most Schools in America learning a language is treated as a Art form. I actually do plan to learn another language eventually. Not necessarily out of any requirement of understanding but more for broadening my horizons and understanding one’s culture.

I would however argue that English is not the most easy to learn. It is actually one of the most complex languages to speak and write properly. We break our rules all the time. Not to mention the multiple meanings for one word. The only reason why it feels easy is you have plenty of people to practice with. People who speak English are ok most of the time with the blatant disregard of proper grammar in a casual setting. I do however feel that English is the common language of the Internet. However I do not feel it should be required. I feel the language spoken should be determined based upon the audience.

Speak whatever language you want. It’s map chat, not a kittening social engagement.

“Oh no! There are people who exist in the world who do not speak the same language as me!” Get over it. You don’t have to know everything that everyone is saying in map chat. You aren’t that important.