Guild Wars 2

i see im not the only person that dislikes the new hair choices over all, for myself i main a Norn and a big fan of the race because the concept is base off of Norse culture and lore with a light influence with Native American, Mongolian and Samoan culture. The problem is that almost all the hairstyles for Norn male and female don’t portray the concept of the culture of the race there way to much human culture hairstyles to choose from.

So i would like the devs to dig deep into the google to look up Nordic, Native American, Mongolian and Samoan haircuts to base concept off of.

I have allot of hairstyle images on hard drive but i can’t add more then one per post

There are options for cultural hairstyles for norns. What it seems you dislike is that other people want human hair for their Norn characters. I don’t play Norns, so I have no interest in their hair, I have always come down on the side of more customization, not less, if someone wants human hair on their Norn, I don’t see a problem with that.

Intercultural interaction causes people to borrow fashion from each other. The hairdo swap has actually been asked for by players many times.

Humans IRL were once all African and in the Guild Wars lore, all non-Elonians (Africans) were once Canthans(Asians) . If norn should be restricted to Nordic and Pacific ethnicity, then should you likewise not demand that humans be restricted to African and Asian ethnicity?

And by what measure are norn not just the biggest variant of humans? I don’t know if others noticed, but for some reason you can make African heads with norn, unlike with humans.

vonbladewing.5973:

I have allot of hairstyle images on hard drive but i can’t add more then one per post

If you choose ‘More posting and formatting options’, you should be able to add several images to any post.

Good luck.

Will just be sad to see the human female hairstyles appearing on norn now.

Overused and bad.

vonbladewing.5973:

I have allot of hairstyle images on hard drive but i can’t add more then one per post

You can but it’s not intuitive. You have to preview after each attachment to attach the next picture. For example.

However to your point, as cultures interact with one another they do “borrow” elements from one another, easiest being clothing, jewelry and hairstyles.

vonbladewing.5973:

I have allot of hairstyle images on hard drive but i can’t add more then one per post

You can. Do an attachment, hit preview, then add another attachment and repeat as necessary. Just don’t go too overboard

Bazompora.2635:

Humans IRL were once all African and in the Guild Wars lore, all non-Elonians (Africans) were once Canthans(Asians) . If norn should be restricted to Nordic and Pacific ethnicity, then should you likewise not demand that humans be restricted to African and Asian ethnicity?

It’s wrong to assume our ancient ancestors looked like modern Africans. That would be like saying modern Africans hadn’t evolved in all that time but everyone else had.

Tyrian humans arrived in Orr from another world, brought here by the gods. So humans in Tyria are actually an alien race, unlike the norn who are native Tyrians.

Norn also don’t need to follow human ethnic rules. Skin colour among norn can vary in the same way as hair colour and is not a regional marker, like it is with humans, since “black” and “white” norn are both from the shiverpeaks and there is no distinction between them.

Bazompora.2635:

And by what measure are norn not just the biggest variant of humans? I don’t know if others noticed, but for some reason you can make African heads with norn, unlike with humans.

Like I mentioned earlier, humans and norn are from two different worlds. Norn are Tyrians, whose kin include the Jotun and the true giants like Lupicus. Humans were brought by the gods through the mists from their old world and then left behind.

The similarities in appearance appear to be a coincidence, and follow different rules.

I do wish there was more iconic hairstyles for Norn that was not available just through makeover kits.

people have been asking for haistyles to be available cross race for quite some time. I don’t see the problem, there are still many hairstyles that are unique to each race.

I applaud the OP’s ideas for more unique hairstyles fitting a racial theme. However, I think such can be “in addition to” rather than “instead of” shared styles.

Fashions get shared cross-culturally to the degree that the different cultures are accessible to each other. Tyria has multi-cultural cities, shared alliances, and teleportation. While there is no TV or internet to drive globalization of fashion, there is plenty of accessibility, which can accomplish the same.

They look pretty human-like.
They act pretty human-like.

Ashen.2907:

They look pretty human-like.
They act pretty human-like.

They taste pretty human-like, too.

Meatoberfest ftw!

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Ashen.2907:

They look pretty human-like.
They act pretty human-like.

They taste pretty human-like, too.

Meatoberfest ftw!

~EW

I knew that was coming. Kind of thought it might be you.

Cirian.8917:

It’s wrong to assume our ancient ancestors looked like modern Africans. That would be like saying modern Africans hadn’t evolved in all that time but everyone else had.

Can I point out that I did not say modern Africans. But before humans spread out from Africa, they would all been adopted to life in Africa, thus African still.

Cirian.8917:

Tyrian humans arrived in Orr from another world, brought here by the gods. So humans in Tyria are actually an alien race, unlike the norn who are native Tyrians.

Norn also don’t need to follow human ethnic rules. Skin colour among norn can vary in the same way as hair colour and is not a regional marker, like it is with humans, since “black” and “white” norn are both from the shiverpeaks and there is no distinction between them.

Bazompora.2635:

And by what measure are norn not just the biggest variant of humans? I don’t know if others noticed, but for some reason you can make African heads with norn, unlike with humans.

Like I mentioned earlier, humans and norn are from two different worlds. Norn are Tyrians, whose kin include the Jotun and the true giants like Lupicus. Humans were brought by the gods through the mists from their old world and then left behind.

The similarities in appearance appear to be a coincidence, and follow different rules.

Yet, ethnic features in norn do seem to follow human biology to particular extent, as norn in the shiverpeaks tend to be white, while I’ve seen a black norn only in the Maguuma Wastes. And Braham, the child of a white norn and a dark-skinned norn of unspecified origin, has a mix of caucasoid and australoid features.

Norn are also human-like when it comes to sexual dimorphy. Dwarves are even more like giants here, all having their females look like males. Add to that that some norn in GW1 have claimed human ancestry or considered founding a family with the human player character of that series.

And what with the giganticus lupicus being a colossal warg-faced troll, one cannot stick with the assumption that the classification of giants is based on genetic proximity relative to the other races. Giant races seem to be a social construct much like the ‘lesser races’ of GW2. Unless one is going to make a case for hylek, quaggan and skritt descending from the same sapient ancestral species.

In short, norns are human.

kitten sapiens always looked like kitten sapiens, our African ancestors aren’t so long ago for them to look especially different.

Norns are just coincidentally humanlife, evidently there is an evolutionary niche for something like a human on Tyria :p

Bazompora.2635:

Humans IRL were once all African and in the Guild Wars lore, all non-Elonians (Africans) were once Canthans(Asians) .

Technically, all humans were once Canthans as this is the place where humanity arrived after being brought to Tyria (the world, not the continent) by the Human Gods. That doesn’t mean, of course, that all were asians, by the way. Everything points out to humanity being genetically diverse at that point, and consisting of many different tribes, instead of being one united race.

Bazompora.2635:

Yet, ethnic features in norn do seem to follow human biology to particular extent, as norn in the shiverpeaks tend to be white, while I’ve seen a black norn only in the Maguuma Wastes.

Which means nothing, as there are no Norn native to Maguuma Wastes. The one you saw was also of shiverpeaks origin. Remember, they moved out from their ancestral homeland only recently. Very recently – as in, within last century or so (when they got pushed out by Jormag).

Bazompora.2635:

In short, norns are human.

Except they are not. They are a distinct, separate species that’s not tied to humanity in any way. Any similarities are completely accidental.

Norns were given a loooong braid. People have been asking for long braids for the human race. Dervish in Gw1 have a jeweled long braid. So people were asking for a long pretty braid for their human, so they wanted to norn hair (minus the celtic clasps and add ribbon wraps in place) And anet did not deliver so yay!

Astralporing.1957:

Technically, all humans were once Canthans as this is the place where humanity arrived after being brought to Tyria (the world, not the continent) by the Human Gods. That doesn’t mean, of course, that all were asians, by the way. Everything points out to humanity being genetically diverse at that point, and consisting of many different tribes, instead of being one united race.

That only supports my analogy: the Norn were once gathered in the Northern Shiverpeaks, but their nation may have coalesced from various ethnicities from other parts of the world. Hoelbrak is the most recent example of norn bands gathering from all over the Shiverpeaks and perhaps beyond, to face a global threat together.

Astralporing.1957:

Which means nothing, as there are no Norn native to Maguuma Wastes. The one you saw was also of shiverpeaks origin. Remember, they moved out from their ancestral homeland only recently. Very recently – as in, within last century or so (when they got pushed out by Jormag).

It does mean something:

• either norn have a rapid phenotypical adaptation to climate that humans don’t possess (yet, Braham is counterindicative of this);
• either norn have been migrating between places of livelihood in more widespread parts of Tyria and their trade hub in the Shiverpeaks all along and diversified like sinodant and sundadont Asians into differing phenotypes that still have closely related phenotypes (yet, entire non-white families still have to be discovered);
• either some norn mixed with Kahmu and acquired black features into their gene pool , which makes the rare individuals that gathered the genes coding for a black phenotype more suited for adventure in tropical climates (this would explain why black and brown norn were never seen in GW1).

Astralporing.1957:

They are a distinct, separate species that’s not tied to humanity in any way. Any similarities are completely accidental.

That’s nowhere attested. And how much can be attributed to coincidence?

• Norn have the same skin color range as humans (even chimps, our closest IRL extant relatives have an inhumanly grey skin color range), while other giants don’t.
• Norn have the same kind of sexual dimorphism as humans.
• Norn don’t have horns, tusks, claws, cyclopia or anything like other giant races that doesn’t just make them giant humans.
• Norn have the same masculine-feminine gender role pattern as humans when it comes to clothes and make-up.
• Norn are not mentioned among the races at the time of the previous rise of the Elder Dragons and anything we know about them correlates with the time of human history.

The definition of a species says that the members can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. Norn and humans can not interbreed. They cannot produce offspring, not even sterile hybrids, an example of which is a cross between a horse and a donkey (a mule). Therefore Norns are not human but are a separate species.

Norn

Although it is implied by some norn in Guild Wars that the norn are able to interbreed with humans, norn-human hybrids are not possible because the five main races cannot cross-fertilize each other.

Considering that it takes hundreds of thousand of generations for one species to separate into two and humans haven’t been on Tyria for that long, this means that humans and Norns were never the same species but evolved separately and look similar due to Convergent evolution.

A good example of convergent evolution would be dogs and Tasmanian tigers. One is a placental mammal and the other was a marsupial, however the appearance of the two species are very similar even though the last common ancestor of the two was millions of years ago.

Artist depiction of a dog and a Tasmanian tiger.

Ok here the hair styles i was trying to submit earlier

here a few things that sets apart Norns from Humans that i can tell

Body Structure: Norn body is more top heavy then humans with what to seems condensed muscles, because of the size of a Norn and weight of it body you would think there bones are more thicker and condensed then a human.

The Norn can handle extreme cold weather without allot of protection this make me think they have a higher body temperature then a human, this make me question how can a Norn stand being in hot weather.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The definition of a species says that the members can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. Norn and humans can not interbreed. They cannot produce offspring, not even sterile hybrids, an example of which is a cross between a horse and a donkey (a mule). Therefore Norns are not human but are a separate species.

Norn

Although it is implied by some norn in Guild Wars that the norn are able to interbreed with humans, norn-human hybrids are not possible because the five main races cannot cross-fertilize each other.

Considering that it takes hundreds of thousand of generations for one species to separate into two and humans haven’t been on Tyria for that long, this means that humans and Norns were never the same species but evolved separately and look similar due to Convergent evolution.

A good example of convergent evolution would be dogs and Tasmanian tigers. One is a placental mammal and the other was a marsupial, however the appearance of the two species are very similar even though the last common ancestor of the two was millions of years ago.

I shall abide “by word of god” however and hereby incline before the speciation of norns and humans. Despite that, other points of contention remain: convergent evolution considered, the tasmanian wolf still carried its newborn in a pouch like other marsupials, while norns are identical to humans in everything but size and bulk, which corresponds with norn having adapted to cold by being more “top heavy” as vonbladewing calls it. Polar species tend to be sizeable yet stocky in relation to related species from warmer climates. A better analogy would be the differentiation between h. sapiens and h. neanderthalensis, where it is theorised that, like has been confirmed across a spectrum of same-species seagull populations around the world, the most distant ends would have already speciated to the point of genetic incompatibility. With a more clear-cut geographical separation between norns and humans, there would not have been any transitional humans and norn that could still interbreed like the early Out-of-Africa h. sapiens and the Near-East h. neanderthalensis had. This cut-off however did not require “hundreds of thousand of generations”, which wouldn’t fit in the five to eight hundred thousand years of separation between h. sapiens and h. neanderthalensis anyway. That said, speciation can be a much more rapid process as selective pressures accrue. And humans having not been that long on Tyria, the continent, means they have until then been either separate or separated from the norn for an unspecified amount of time. Also, when asked if norn and humans are related, Jeff Grubb stated: “the question of norn origins is something that we — I’d like to basically hop around that for a while.” As far as I know, that while still hasn’t come to pass. Insofar, common origin is not denied like interbreeding is.

Relatedness left to speculation, can we agree on one thing? Norns are not humans, but norns are similar to humans. That was not disputed.

vonbladewing.5973:

i see im not the only person that dislikes the new hair choices over all, for myself i main a Norn and a big fan of the race because the concept is base off of Norse culture and lore with a light influence with Native American, Mongolian and Samoan culture. The problem is that almost all the hairstyles for Norn male and female don’t portray the concept of the culture of the race there way to much human culture hairstyles to choose from.

So i would like the devs to dig deep into the google to look up Nordic, Native American, Mongolian and Samoan haircuts to base concept off of.

Are you seriously implying Samoans and any ethnicties you deem “exotic” are not really human?

It doesn’t even matter if Norn and Humans have a common origin or not.

What matter is that Norn and KRYTAN culture are different. Different enough to have clearly distinguishable aesthetics, and therefore, different enough to need separated hairstyles.

As I said before, this doesn’t imply hairstyles shouldn’t be re-utilized across different playable races. It just imply Anet needs to make the effort to adjust some details here and there to make any re-utilized style properly localized to the culture which will use it.

TLDR: No matter geneticsNorn and Krytan cultures are different. Hairstyles should be shared across races as long as each one is properly adjusted to the new user culture.

I still find it funny that they gave them the anime hairstyles.
I can’t take norn seriously with those two hairstyles.

vonbladewing.5973:

Ok here the hair styles i was trying to submit earlier

I have a hairstyles thread going if you’d be willing to submit those? I’m on my phone so I can’t provide the link

Ardid.7203:

It doesn’t even matter if Norn and Humans have a common origin or not.

What matter is that Norn and KRYTAN culture are different. Different enough to have clearly distinguishable aesthetics, and therefore, different enough to need separated hairstyles.

As I said before, this doesn’t imply hairstyles shouldn’t be re-utilized across different playable races. It just imply Anet needs to make the effort to adjust some details here and there to make any re-utilized style properly localized to the culture which will use it.

TLDR: No matter geneticsNorn and Krytan cultures are different. Hairstyles should be shared across races as long as each one is properly adjusted to the new user culture.

You would have a point, if not for female dreads and war paint, facial tattoos and shaved heads on both men and women originating from Krytan culture,

while only body tattoos and braids — not dreads — in addition to their always unshaven heads were known from norn culture.

i love it tho, all i want now is the really long tail from the norn to the human, that’s the one hair style i wanted ever since beta 1.

oh, and a picture of my bounty hunter

Its a myth that nordics are tall.

Bazompora.2635:

Ardid.7203:

It doesn’t even matter if Norn and Humans have a common origin or not.

What matter is that Norn and KRYTAN culture are different. Different enough to have clearly distinguishable aesthetics, and therefore, different enough to need separated hairstyles.

As I said before, this doesn’t imply hairstyles shouldn’t be re-utilized across different playable races. It just imply Anet needs to make the effort to adjust some details here and there to make any re-utilized style properly localized to the culture which will use it.

TLDR: No matter geneticsNorn and Krytan cultures are different. Hairstyles should be shared across races as long as each one is properly adjusted to the new user culture.

You would have a point, if not for female dreads and war paint, facial tattoos and shaved heads on both men and women originating from Krytan culture,

while only body tattoos and braids — not dreads — in addition to their always unshaven heads were known from norn culture.

Wow, Krytans used to be pretty diverse and had a unique (in the game) aesthetic. Then again, Kryta used to be subtropical before it became a generic North American/European looking fantasy land