Not acceptable answer
Not all of that 11000 posts was negative. Positive and supporting threads were rolled into it too
The Ashwalker – Ranger
Garnished Toast
Garnished Toast
I don’t believe they were all negative. I posted in it myself. I posted about my concern over this game, having nothing negative to say about it. I believe the community is still due a legitimate response from something to do with the core value of the game.
We aren’t getting a better response. If they wanted to say anything on the matter they would have by now.
This world needs more people being frank and less people being offended.
What are you expecting them say? “sorry we decided the grinders are worth more money to us than you regardless of how we marketed this game”
Anet broke off the relationship. You’re hurt. Confused. You want to know what happened, what went wrong. Like any relationship gone bad, does it really matter in the end? Just time to move on……they have, and so should you.
I would like a response one way or the other. I am pretty sure we will not get one, but I can hope. I may be naive, but I am giving the company a chance to save a customer, and mind you, I am a well paying customer that has put more money in 3 months in to this game, then my 1 year of WoW. That also includes several purchases outside of the monthly fee.
Anet broke off the relationship. You’re hurt. Confused. You want to know what happened, what went wrong. Like any relationship gone bad, does it really matter in the end? Just time to move on……
Very true. I am on the verge of moving on. But in this day of texting and emails, the tone of a what someone is saying can be lost. I want to be certain they have ended a profitable relationship with, what I believe, a large portion of their community.
Their response was “we’re not adding a gear grind”, which they didn’t. That thread amounted to a group of thoughtless, angry players baselessly calling ArenaNet liars a few thousand times, that’s all. Just because people refuse to accept the truth of the matter doesn’t make said truth any less true.
I had not chimed in on the big thread because I was waiting.
I was waiting to see another statement from ArenaNet. I would have accepted any response. Anything to indicate that they recognized the general uproar caused by the introduction of Ascended gear and the complete 180 on their own professed design philosophy.
Now that they’ve locked the thread and coolly dismissed all of the therein stated concerns, I’ve given up the hope that I’d been clinging to. No response would be given.
I’ve been a long time supporter of Guild Wars and waited for years in anticipation of Guild Wars 2. I truly believed in ArenaNet as a company and admired what they accomplished with their products.
But, I’m done. I feel cheated. I feel deceived. And, as much as I really was enjoying the game, my time in Tyria has run it’s course. This is just no way for a company to treat their customers and I’ll not have any further part in it.
Their response was “we’re not adding a gear grind”, which they didn’t. That thread amounted to a group of thoughtless, angry players baselessly calling ArenaNet liars a few thousand times, that’s all. Just because people refuse to accept the truth of the matter doesn’t make said truth any less true.
Also calling the truth by a different name doesn’t make it any less of a truth.
This world needs more people being frank and less people being offended.
Think that after the rage thread they gonna make ascend gear easier to get just like excotics
“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. "
Also think this is the NEW MAX gear cap ever.. atleast i hope so…. you would think after al the rage they learned there lesson.. I am guesing this is the only way to try and salavage it without making the Hamsters rage.
Oh really? Feels like they added a gear grind to me!
1 vial of condensed mist essence
50 ectoes
40 crystals
250 t6 fine crafting materials
Oh right, that should be SO easy for anyone to obtain.
“Not acceptable?”
Unfortunately, you are going to eventually have to accept it and move on.
Their response was “we’re not adding a gear grind”, which they didn’t. That thread amounted to a group of thoughtless, angry players baselessly calling ArenaNet liars a few thousand times, that’s all. Just because people refuse to accept the truth of the matter doesn’t make said truth any less true.
Do you realize that they have taken every means we had to be self dependent in the game and stacked us in a never ending overflow in lions arch, trying to find a group which would take us to FoTM? Who is gonna run any of the other dungeons now? Have you checked the gem store prices right now? Sky rocketed high. Do you really think this is gonna last long? Elitism is already getting in place, people are having a hard time finding groups for FoTM and the gear treadmill already moving forward.
Otherwise, why would a thread get 11k replies? Or are those people bots too?
Commander Athrael ThunderBorn
GM of Crew of Misfits (CoM)
Piken Square, EU
GM of Crew of Misfits (CoM)
Piken Square, EU
Oh really? Feels like they added a gear grind to me!
1 vial of condensed mist essence
50 ectoes
40 crystals
250 t6 fine crafting materialsOh right, that should be SO easy for anyone to obtain.
Exactly, going from 5 Ectos per piece to 50 seems a little like a grind to me. Also going from 5 T6 materials to 250. This is absurd.
This is just for 1 piece. So, to expand on this, going from 60 Ectos for a completed set of Exotics, including Jewelry, to 600 Ectos.
Yeah, no grind. This does not amount to fun for me.
If we go the Karma route, which has not been talked about yet. Baseline of 42k Karma. So, will it be double or ten times as much for a piece of gear? 252k for a full set to 504k or 2,250k (2,520,000) for a full set?
I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
I had not chimed in on the big thread because I was waiting.
I was waiting to see another statement from ArenaNet. I would have accepted any response. Anything to indicate that they recognized the general uproar caused by the introduction of Ascended gear and the complete 180 on their own professed design philosophy.
Now that they’ve locked the thread and coolly dismissed all of the therein stated concerns, I’ve given up the hope that I’d been clinging to. No response would be given.
I’ve been a long time supporter of Guild Wars and waited for years in anticipation of Guild Wars 2. I truly believed in ArenaNet as a company and admired what they accomplished with their products.
But, I’m done. I feel cheated. I feel deceived. And, as much as I really was enjoying the game, my time in Tyria has run it’s course. This is just no way for a company to treat their customers and I’ll not have any further part in it.
Just because you think they’ve reversed their philosophy doesn’t mean they have. Clearly they don’t feel the same way, and in the end, it’s their philosophy, not yours. It’s not ArenaNet’s fault that you fail to/refuse to understand their design goals. They know what they’re doing with their game, you do not, no matter how much you want to believe that you do. Just because you think they’re going down a road of endless gear-grinding and player-ignoring doesn’t mean they are.
But, if people can’t accept that, try thinking of it this way:
Prior to this patch, I bet you thought ArenaNet would never introduce your idea of a gear grind, right? But then they did. Therefore, going purely by past precedent, you have terrible judgment. Now you think they’re going to add an endless gear treadmill, right? Chances are, you’ll be wrong about that, too. So calm down!
A ridiculous argument? Yes. But then again, so is most of the rage over this issue.
Just because you think they’ve reversed their philosophy doesn’t mean they have. Clearly they don’t feel the same way, and in the end, it’s their philosophy, not yours. It’s not ArenaNet’s fault that you fail to/refuse to understand their design goals. They know what they’re doing with their game, you do not, no matter how much you want to believe that you do. Just because you think they’re going down a road of endless gear-grinding and player-ignoring doesn’t mean they are.
But, if people can’t accept that, try thinking of it this way:
Prior to this patch, I bet you thought ArenaNet would never introduce your idea of a gear grind, right? But then they did. Therefore, going purely by past precedent, you have terrible judgment. Now you think they’re going to add an endless gear treadmill, right? Chances are, you’ll be wrong about that, too. So calm down!
A ridiculous argument? Yes. But then again, so is most of the rage over this issue.
By your own logic, you have called them Liars. They have told us on several occasions they would do one thing, and now they have done another.
If I tell you I am baking you a cookie and you get excited for a cookie, then I hand you a carrot, does that mean you should not have gotten excited for the cookie? Are you going to eat the carrot when you were told you would get a cookie? Or do you look at the person giving you the carrot and ask why?
Oh really? Feels like they added a gear grind to me!
1 vial of condensed mist essence
50 ectoes
40 crystals
250 t6 fine crafting materialsOh right, that should be SO easy for anyone to obtain.
Exactly, going from 5 Ectos per piece to 50 seems a little like a grind to me. Also going from 5 T6 materials to 250. This is absurd.
This is just for 1 piece. So, to expand on this, going from 60 Ectos for a completed set of Exotics, including Jewelry, to 600 Ectos.
Yeah, no grind. This does not amount to fun for me.
If we go the Karma route, which has not been talked about yet. Baseline of 42k Karma. So, will it be double or ten times as much for a piece of gear? 252k for a full set to 504k or 2,250k (2,520,000) for a full set?
It’s not just going from 5->50 ectos and 5->250 t6 fine mats
What’s worse is they nerfed Orr drop rates to the ground so you can’t log in for an hour or two everyday and get a couple of ectos/gold. The grind for an Ascended item(even exotics) is much tougher now.
(edited by Izaya.2906)
Just because you think they’ve reversed their philosophy doesn’t mean they have. Clearly they don’t feel the same way, and in the end, it’s their philosophy, not yours. It’s not ArenaNet’s fault that you fail to/refuse to understand their design goals. They know what they’re doing with their game, you do not, no matter how much you want to believe that you do. Just because you think they’re going down a road of endless gear-grinding and player-ignoring doesn’t mean they are.
But, if people can’t accept that, try thinking of it this way:
Prior to this patch, I bet you thought ArenaNet would never introduce your idea of a gear grind, right? But then they did. Therefore, going purely by past precedent, you have terrible judgment. Now you think they’re going to add an endless gear treadmill, right? Chances are, you’ll be wrong about that, too. So calm down!
A ridiculous argument? Yes. But then again, so is most of the rage over this issue.
By your own logic, you have called them Liars. They have told us on several occasions they would do one thing, and now they have done another.
If I tell you I am baking you a cookie and you get excited for a cookie, then I hand you a carrot, does that mean you should not have gotten excited for the cookie? Are you going to eat the carrot when you were told you would get a cookie? Or do you look at the person giving you the carrot and ask why?
Except they haven’t. Incrementally adding a single new tier of gear is not something they never said they’d do. Just because people say this is going to result in a philosophy-shattering chain of more and more new tiers, despite the fact that ArenaNet said this isn’t what they intend to do doesn’t make it true.
Except they haven’t. Incrementally adding a single new tier of gear is not something they never said they’d do. Just because people say this is going to result in a philosophy-shattering chain of more and more new tiers, despite the fact that ArenaNet said this isn’t what they intend to do doesn’t make it true.
While not talking about a vertical progression, which I don’t care about if it is small, is more about the goals of being more casual and being able to leave the game for periods of time and come back not having to try and get more gear that would take a significant amount of time to acquire. This is what I am talking about. If they added a vertical progression that was easy to get, say 1 more mat per tier or something silly, I would not care about as much as it would be VERY easy to acquire. But now I will not be able to stop playing that game for a significant amount of time and come back to the same level of power I had and experience potential new content.
“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time.”
Translation: Hardcore gear-grinders get to beat up you casual lamers for the time being out at WvW, until we take pity on you to let you, who don’t have the dedication to grind you life away at FotM, have some toys later on. (At which time, FotM2 grind will drop Supreme gears)
I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
They are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in the same sense that a Chinese restaurant would be, if they decided to snatch up your chow mein mid-meal and replace it with a burger instead, because the burger business is more lucrative.
I have no sympathy for them at all. There is no reasonable argument for them being “stuck”.
I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
They are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in the same sense that a Chinese restaurant would be, if they decided to snatch up your chow mein mid-meal and replace it with a burger instead, because the burger business is more lucrative.
I have no sympathy for them at all. There is no reasonable argument for them being “stuck”.
Ridiculous. If anything, they’re putting a burger on the table next to your chow mein. They’re taking nothing away. If you think they are, that’s a problem with your own perception, not with the game itself.
Just because you think they’ve reversed their philosophy doesn’t mean they have. Clearly they don’t feel the same way, and in the end, it’s their philosophy, not yours. It’s not ArenaNet’s fault that you fail to/refuse to understand their design goals. They know what they’re doing with their game, you do not, no matter how much you want to believe that you do. Just because you think they’re going down a road of endless gear-grinding and player-ignoring doesn’t mean they are.
But, if people can’t accept that, try thinking of it this way:
Prior to this patch, I bet you thought ArenaNet would never introduce your idea of a gear grind, right? But then they did. Therefore, going purely by past precedent, you have terrible judgment. Now you think they’re going to add an endless gear treadmill, right? Chances are, you’ll be wrong about that, too. So calm down!
A ridiculous argument? Yes. But then again, so is most of the rage over this issue.
By your own logic, you have called them Liars. They have told us on several occasions they would do one thing, and now they have done another.
If I tell you I am baking you a cookie and you get excited for a cookie, then I hand you a carrot, does that mean you should not have gotten excited for the cookie? Are you going to eat the carrot when you were told you would get a cookie? Or do you look at the person giving you the carrot and ask why?
It makes no sense to engage with the pro-gear grind treadmill crowd. They got what they wanted so of course they are going to come on the forums and defend the despicable act. Ignore them. Our issue is with Anet. Personally, my dissent is not so much because they compromised their integrity by totally doing an about face in what they sold the game to be, but the fact that they refuse to honestly address the matter and be honest with the community, many of us who have been loyal supporters of Anet until this fiasco. All they had to do was be sincere with the reason for their sudden change of game philosophy. Instead what we are getting is infracted, censored, deleted, banned, and just basically ignored. This is no way to treat a customer. Their treatment of this community has been nothing short of abhorrent.
We are not hamsters!
(edited by Curlybaby.6258)
I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
They are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in the same sense that a Chinese restaurant would be, if they decided to snatch up your chow mein mid-meal and replace it with a burger instead, because the burger business is more lucrative.
I have no sympathy for them at all. There is no reasonable argument for them being “stuck”.
Ridiculous. If anything, they’re putting a burger on the table next to your chow mein. They’re taking nothing away. If you think they are, that’s a problem with your own perception, not with the game itself.
You can’t have it both ways. It’s either grinding game or it’s not.
This world needs more people being frank and less people being offended.
You missed where the chow mein was snatched away. In this case, the casual play of this game. Or the ability to play alts and not be stuck playing one toon forever to maintain the top level of gear.
You missed where the chow mein was snatched away. In this case, the casual play of this game. Or the ability to play alts and not be stuck playing one toon forever to maintain the top level of gear.
Again, this is a problem with your perception, not with the game. They are taking nothing away from you. The feeling of needing to play a single character to be “the best” (an entirely subjective concept) is entirely self-inflicted. It is a result of not thinking logically about or acting upon the things that make the game fun for you.
I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
They are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in the same sense that a Chinese restaurant would be, if they decided to snatch up your chow mein mid-meal and replace it with a burger instead, because the burger business is more lucrative.
I have no sympathy for them at all. There is no reasonable argument for them being “stuck”.
I disagree. It’s more like they offered you an all you can eat over a five hour period – but you got through it in two hours.
Given that you had already allowed another 3 hours of time to be spent at the restaurant – they offered you drinks as well.
I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
They are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in the same sense that a Chinese restaurant would be, if they decided to snatch up your chow mein mid-meal and replace it with a burger instead, because the burger business is more lucrative.
I have no sympathy for them at all. There is no reasonable argument for them being “stuck”.
I disagree. It’s more like they offered you an all you can eat over a five hour period – but you got through it in two hours.
Given that you had already allowed another 3 hours of time to be spent at the restaurant – they offered you drinks as well.
You can’t be serious with that analogy.
This world needs more people being frank and less people being offended.
I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
They are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in the same sense that a Chinese restaurant would be, if they decided to snatch up your chow mein mid-meal and replace it with a burger instead, because the burger business is more lucrative.
I have no sympathy for them at all. There is no reasonable argument for them being “stuck”.
Ridiculous. If anything, they’re putting a burger on the table next to your chow mein. They’re taking nothing away. If you think they are, that’s a problem with your own perception, not with the game itself.
You are fooling yourself if you believe the social comparison aspect of MMO’s is something you can just throw out the window as unimportant. It is not a problem with anyone’s perception; it is a trait inherent to this type of game. Not even going to bother mentioning all the objective problems this grind creates because it’s been covered by thousands of posts already.
You cannot separate human nature and people’s perceptions of things in the game from the game itself. The game LIVES purely because of peoples perception of whether it is enjoyable or not. Games have no objective value that people do not give them.
The fact is that the very existence of a stat based gear grind is mutually exclusive with a game that isn’t based on that grind. Telling someone to stop half-way and imagine it’s not a grind is meaningless. Nobody thinks that way in reality.
They finally locked the huge thread.
But that will not stop the discussion here or now on other sites. They really do need to come out with a statement soon. A statement from the Arenanet President or Lead Content Designer would be preferred.
Can you feel it? HOT HOT HOT
I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
They are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in the same sense that a Chinese restaurant would be, if they decided to snatch up your chow mein mid-meal and replace it with a burger instead, because the burger business is more lucrative.
I have no sympathy for them at all. There is no reasonable argument for them being “stuck”.
I disagree. It’s more like they offered you an all you can eat over a five hour period – but you got through it in two hours.
Given that you had already allowed another 3 hours of time to be spent at the restaurant – they offered you drinks as well.
You can’t be serious with that analogy.
Why not?
I think the ‘answer’ to the 11000+ thread was not acceptable. We all read the message from Chris Whiteside. Many of the posts were after this response. I believe many of us would like an answer to why the game has taken a drastic turn away from the Manifesto and rhetoric that brought us to buy this game. We want to continue to support this company and game but the answer provided only leaves us with feelings of insecurity, doubt, and regret.
Provide the community with a better response.
If it was done the thread would slide down to the next page, then fade away.
Anet you guys are really swimming up stream now. Telling your community that the discussion is done, is another mistake.
Stop talking down to these guys. They have supported you for years through think and thin. Anet you’ve lost a lot of goodwill, don’t lose their respect.
I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
They are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in the same sense that a Chinese restaurant would be, if they decided to snatch up your chow mein mid-meal and replace it with a burger instead, because the burger business is more lucrative.
I have no sympathy for them at all. There is no reasonable argument for them being “stuck”.
I disagree. It’s more like they offered you an all you can eat over a five hour period – but you got through it in two hours.
Given that you had already allowed another 3 hours of time to be spent at the restaurant – they offered you drinks as well.
You can’t be serious with that analogy.
Why not?
Because it’s not related to the current situation in any way. At least not in any way that I can see.
This world needs more people being frank and less people being offended.
I’m also in the very disappointed crowd, I will not try for a refund as I have a sweet charr statue guarding my pc. But i have a very serious question for ArenaNet.
So to ArenaNet after this tornado of negativity the ascended gear and implied gear treadmill. Do you think this move was worth the risk?
“We don’t need to make gear treadmills”
Colin Johanson on how arenanet measures success
Colin Johanson on how arenanet measures success
Mark my words the game we have now will be the free-2-play version the P2P version will be incoming very soon, remember this day.
It makes no sense to engage with the pro-gear grind treadmill crowd. They got what they wanted so of course they are going to come on the forums and defend the despicable act. Ignore them. Our issue is with Anet. Personally, my dissent is not so much because they compromised their integrity by totally doing an about face in what they sold the game to be, but the fact that they refuse to honestly address the matter and be honest with the community, many of us who have been loyal supporters of Anet until this fiasco. All they had to do was be sincere with the reason for their sudden change of game philosophy. Instead what we are getting is infracted, censored, deleted, banned, and just basically ignored. This is no way to treat a customer. Their treatment of this community has been nothing short of abhorrent.
I’m sorry to use you as an example of what I see is a problem with these sorts of threads, but I see multiple instances of statements that the company is refusing to be honest with it’s customers. What leads you to believe this? There was a blog post where they stated their reasons, and all the people in an uproar decided that it was just a PR exercise.
While you may disagree with the reasoning (and I’ve seen some good examples of this), what has lead you to think the blog post wasn’t sincere?
I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
They are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in the same sense that a Chinese restaurant would be, if they decided to snatch up your chow mein mid-meal and replace it with a burger instead, because the burger business is more lucrative.
I have no sympathy for them at all. There is no reasonable argument for them being “stuck”.
I disagree. It’s more like they offered you an all you can eat over a five hour period – but you got through it in two hours.
Given that you had already allowed another 3 hours of time to be spent at the restaurant – they offered you drinks as well.
You can’t be serious with that analogy.
Why not?
Because it’s not related to the current situation in any way. At least not in any way that I can see.
As far as I know, Anet haven’t taken away any content – have they? Anet themselves have stated that players essentially progressed (primarily in relation to acquisition of Legendary weapons) far faster than they expected. They therefore tried to provide additional content so that players would have something else to work towards.
Exactly what else did you think they were going to do? Have players reach the maximum ever possible gear limit within three months of release and have everyone stuck with that until they ceased to play?
I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
They are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in the same sense that a Chinese restaurant would be, if they decided to snatch up your chow mein mid-meal and replace it with a burger instead, because the burger business is more lucrative.
I have no sympathy for them at all. There is no reasonable argument for them being “stuck”.
I disagree. It’s more like they offered you an all you can eat over a five hour period – but you got through it in two hours.
Given that you had already allowed another 3 hours of time to be spent at the restaurant – they offered you drinks as well.
You can’t be serious with that analogy.
Why not?
Because it’s not related to the current situation in any way. At least not in any way that I can see.
As far as I know, Anet haven’t taken away any content – have they? Anet themselves have stated that players essentially progressed (primarily in relation to acquisition of Legendary weapons) far faster than they expected. They therefore tried to provide additional content so that players would have something else to work towards.
Exactly what else did you think they were going to do? Have players reach the maximum ever possible gear limit within three months of release and have everyone stuck with that until they ceased to play?
So I was right. It’s not connected in any way.
What you’re asking is what has been talked, raged, yelled, discussed, argued in that 11k-posts topic that was just closed. Make a cup of coffee and start reading. Horizontal progression. Not vertical.
This world needs more people being frank and less people being offended.
It makes no sense to engage with the pro-gear grind treadmill crowd. They got what they wanted so of course they are going to come on the forums and defend the despicable act. Ignore them. Our issue is with Anet. Personally, my dissent is not so much because they compromised their integrity by totally doing an about face in what they sold the game to be, but the fact that they refuse to honestly address the matter and be honest with the community, many of us who have been loyal supporters of Anet until this fiasco. All they had to do was be sincere with the reason for their sudden change of game philosophy. Instead what we are getting is infracted, censored, deleted, banned, and just basically ignored. This is no way to treat a customer. Their treatment of this community has been nothing short of abhorrent.
I’m sorry to use you as an example of what I see is a problem with these sorts of threads, but I see multiple instances of statements that the company is refusing to be honest with it’s customers. What leads you to believe this? There was a blog post where they stated their reasons, and all the people in an uproar decided that it was just a PR exercise.
While you may disagree with the reasoning (and I’ve seen some good examples of this), what has lead you to think the blog post wasn’t sincere?
Their response to date simply insults the intelligence of those of us who know better. Which is all the more disdainful.
We are not hamsters!
Oh man I can’t believe they closed the thread with that answer…..I mean really it was like 10k+ posts and 100k+ views you would have thought they would have taken it more serious instead of just closing it.
I have been checking these forums more than I have been playing the game just looking for some feedback about that huge thread just some answer but I guess we got our answer.
It makes no sense to engage with the pro-gear grind treadmill crowd. They got what they wanted so of course they are going to come on the forums and defend the despicable act. Ignore them. Our issue is with Anet. Personally, my dissent is not so much because they compromised their integrity by totally doing an about face in what they sold the game to be, but the fact that they refuse to honestly address the matter and be honest with the community, many of us who have been loyal supporters of Anet until this fiasco. All they had to do was be sincere with the reason for their sudden change of game philosophy. Instead what we are getting is infracted, censored, deleted, banned, and just basically ignored. This is no way to treat a customer. Their treatment of this community has been nothing short of abhorrent.
I’m sorry to use you as an example of what I see is a problem with these sorts of threads, but I see multiple instances of statements that the company is refusing to be honest with it’s customers. What leads you to believe this? There was a blog post where they stated their reasons, and all the people in an uproar decided that it was just a PR exercise.
While you may disagree with the reasoning (and I’ve seen some good examples of this), what has lead you to think the blog post wasn’t sincere?
Their response to date simply insults the intelligence of those of us who know better. Which is all the more disdainful.
Baselessly calling their response a lie is equally disdainful and insulting.
It makes no sense to engage with the pro-gear grind treadmill crowd. They got what they wanted so of course they are going to come on the forums and defend the despicable act. Ignore them. Our issue is with Anet. Personally, my dissent is not so much because they compromised their integrity by totally doing an about face in what they sold the game to be, but the fact that they refuse to honestly address the matter and be honest with the community, many of us who have been loyal supporters of Anet until this fiasco. All they had to do was be sincere with the reason for their sudden change of game philosophy. Instead what we are getting is infracted, censored, deleted, banned, and just basically ignored. This is no way to treat a customer. Their treatment of this community has been nothing short of abhorrent.
I’m sorry to use you as an example of what I see is a problem with these sorts of threads, but I see multiple instances of statements that the company is refusing to be honest with it’s customers. What leads you to believe this? There was a blog post where they stated their reasons, and all the people in an uproar decided that it was just a PR exercise.
While you may disagree with the reasoning (and I’ve seen some good examples of this), what has lead you to think the blog post wasn’t sincere?
Their response to date simply insults the intelligence of those of us who know better. Which is all the more disdainful.
Baselessly calling their response a lie is equally disdainful and insulting.
Whatever. Like I said, I have nothing for you pro gear-grind treadmill players. Believe what you want, enjoy your game. My issue is with Anet. My post is directed at them. If they read it, it has served its purpose. If not, fine. It matters not. They have lost this customer regardless.
We are not hamsters!
I’m sorry to use you as an example of what I see is a problem with these sorts of threads, but I see multiple instances of statements that the company is refusing to be honest with it’s customers. What leads you to believe this? There was a blog post where they stated their reasons, and all the people in an uproar decided that it was just a PR exercise.
While you may disagree with the reasoning (and I’ve seen some good examples of this), what has lead you to think the blog post wasn’t sincere?
Their response to date simply insults the intelligence of those of us who know better. Which is all the more disdainful.
Really? I /bow before your superior intellect then…
Seriously though, how does it do this? I can understand the disagreement with the decisions the developers have made and the (assumed) direction that this leads the game into, but you aren’t exactly making your own point in a cogent manner.
As far as I know, Anet haven’t taken away any content – have they? Anet themselves have stated that players essentially progressed (primarily in relation to acquisition of Legendary weapons) far faster than they expected. They therefore tried to provide additional content so that players would have something else to work towards.
Exactly what else did you think they were going to do? Have players reach the maximum ever possible gear limit within three months of release and have everyone stuck with that until they ceased to play?[/quote]
So I was right. It’s not connected in any way.
What you’re asking is what has been talked, raged, yelled, discussed, argued in that 11k-posts topic that was just closed. Make a cup of coffee and start reading. Horizontal progression. Not vertical. [/quote]
I was responding to this:
Auum.3410:I agree. It’s amazing how effective the words ’I’m sorry’ can be to mend a disagreement or issue when given genuinely. From my own observations, I’m glad that Anet are trying some different approaches and being creative with their events, gear etc – but it can be risky. The major problem is that in some cases the concerns of the most important stakeholder – the player/customer are not fully considered. Mind you, it doesn’t help when there are such polar opposites in player opinion on almost all the current issues – Anet are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place….
Shindar the Reaver.2518: They are stuck between a rock and a hard place, in the same sense that a Chinese restaurant would be, if they decided to snatch up your chow mein mid-meal and replace it with a burger instead, because the burger business is more lucrative.
I have no sympathy for them at all. There is no reasonable argument for them being “stuck”.
So therefore I was using the same analogy – regardless if the actual point from Shindar was off topic.
Simply put, nothing physical has been removed. BUT, the core value of the game has changed. We are wanting a response to this change.
I think at this point we’d settle for a statement as simple as “We changed our vision, what was said before no longer applies, Ascended gear stays.” Unless of course, that’s still on the table. We don’t have to dramatize it by calling it lying.
Ascending gear. Descending game.
It makes no sense to engage with the pro-gear grind treadmill crowd. They got what they wanted so of course they are going to come on the forums and defend the despicable act. Ignore them. Our issue is with Anet. Personally, my dissent is not so much because they compromised their integrity by totally doing an about face in what they sold the game to be, but the fact that they refuse to honestly address the matter and be honest with the community, many of us who have been loyal supporters of Anet until this fiasco. All they had to do was be sincere with the reason for their sudden change of game philosophy. Instead what we are getting is infracted, censored, deleted, banned, and just basically ignored. This is no way to treat a customer. Their treatment of this community has been nothing short of abhorrent.
I’m sorry to use you as an example of what I see is a problem with these sorts of threads, but I see multiple instances of statements that the company is refusing to be honest with it’s customers. What leads you to believe this? There was a blog post where they stated their reasons, and all the people in an uproar decided that it was just a PR exercise.
While you may disagree with the reasoning (and I’ve seen some good examples of this), what has lead you to think the blog post wasn’t sincere?
Their response to date simply insults the intelligence of those of us who know better. Which is all the more disdainful.
Baselessly calling their response a lie is equally disdainful and insulting.
Their response is riddled with lies and betrayal. From Chris Whiteside’s post:
“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. " – What can be said about this other than it’s a flat out lie? That it’s technically a truth because the gear treadmill is a means to an end (attracting a different demographic) rather than their primary goal? That’s about the best you’ll do. They have stated their intentions to continue along this same path of stat-based gear progression and gated content. It is a lie. No amount of word-twisting will change that reality.
“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. " – An intentionally misleading statement, attempting to justify the stat-grind by subtly, purposely confusing the two separate ideas of a cosmetic reward and a stat based reward. There was no massive jump in stat based rewards that had to be ‘fixed’, but that’s what they’re trying to make you think. Intentionally misleading someone is as good as lying.
“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” – Another thing that may be technically true, if stretched to its limits, and yet is practically false. They are adding ascended gear bit-by-bit, so yes, there will periodically be new stat improvements that you will have to chase after. Today it is back pieces and jewelry. A few months from now maybe it will be weapons and chest pieces. After that, maybe helms and pants. There is no practical difference between that and there being an actual new tier beyond ascended. Heck, maybe once they reach 6 months from now they will add a whole new tier beyond ascended and start the cycle anew. Technically it wouldn’t lying. Practically, it is.
And the biggest lie of all was the manifesto. The promises that none of this nonsense would come to pass in the first place.