Guild Wars 2

I really enjoy playing Guild Wars 2, but the November Monthly Achievement is not something myself, or many other casual players will be able to complete.

The single chunk of time to complete 1 dungeon is more than I am able to invest. Dungeons aren’t designed for casual players from the perspective of time investment and difficulty. I saw an interview near launch that stated the Daily and Monthly Achievements were design to help casual players keep up by getting fast experience every day — this is no longer true .

This change alienates a significant portion of your player base so you should strongly consider the time investment task you put into the Monthly Achievement for December.

As far as i understand – noone forces you to do the achievements. I play for 1-2 hours a day if i have time, so you can call me pretty casual – and i am not stressing as much about not being able to complete everything.

Not everything should be designed for casuals ONLY.

There will always be people that “can’t finish the monthly achievement”.
They are supposed to take most, if not all, of the month to complete, and they should involve every part of the game.

Going by this logic it would be much more annoying for people only wanting to play WvW, seeing as they can’t finish even half of the achievement.

There will always, no matter what they do, be people that would miss out.

Most dungeon runs don’t even take up 1 hour. You can run Ascalonian Catacombs in less than 30 minutes even. Don’t tell me you can’t spare 30 minutes for 5 times a day in 1 month.

Or if you want an even faster run, go do Citadel of Flames in 15-20 minutes.

Could someone list the monthly achievement objectives? I haven’t actually looked yet, to my embarrassment.

The only achievement on my monthly sitting at 0 is the Monthly Dungeon Participation, but I don’t think asking the player base to do 5 dungeon paths a month (75-150 minutes over a span of 28-31 days) is really asking too much.

I’ve only avoided it because I would rather run dungeons with people also experiencing them for the first time rather than finding a pick-up-group which is going to be focused on mechanical efficiency rather than enjoying the experience.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monthly

I don’t know…I’m a ‘casual’ and I don’t think the monthly is that hard.
1. WvW 50 kills.
2. 5 dungeon runs
3. 200 karka killed — easy if you did the event.
4. 7 Fractals run (only having trouble with this one because someone always dc’s in our group so I’ve only gotten credit for 2 completions despite running around 10 times)

5 dungeons a month is incredibly easy.

everyone is running CoF 1/2, AC 1/2/3 almost every day because they are very easy dungeons.

i dont understand how even casual players struggle to do 5 dungeons a month, i can understand if your put off by the difficulty of storymode, but the vast majority of Explorables are actually easier than Story.

It’s an achievement, not an entitlement.

But if you think you don’t have time for a dungeon, I think you’re incorrect. Cuz you can run a lot of dungeons twice in the amount of time just to get into wvw for that side of the achievement. And 200 karkas. And 7 fractals.

Dailies are for casuals. Short-lenght goals that can be done in less than an hour.

Monthlies are there to focus the playerbase on certain tasks. Not enough people go to WvW in several worlds? WvW Objective. Not enouh people is trying dungeons? Dungeon objective. They want people to try the new areas? Karka kill and fractal objective.

See the trend?

I’ve posted this in similar threads, and I’ve seen other make the same suggestion.

Daily and Monthly achievements should be a grab bag of items, and you choose a subset to complete it. Here’s 10 things you could do, finish any 5 and you are done. Mix and match things you enjoy doing.

The sad thing is I ‘hate’ dungeons, but early this month I gritted my teeth and went and did the 5 needed. I figured the two ‘surprise’ ones were going to be some fun, cute event-y type thing, much like the Mad King monthly was (certain number of events or something?). One of them was, kill lots of karka. I got some doing the first and second one time events. I skipped the third, I didn’t feel like it, and the rewards didn’t seem like they were going to go in the direction of actually getting something useful, guess I lost out there. The other one is fractals. I have no interest in that sort of testosterone-filled activity, so I won’t be doing my monthly. And that’s fine. Hopefully next month.

I will be sad not to get that 60 copper though.

Separate Fractals and Dungeons? Well poo, I thought that my Fractal runs would have me covered. Hmm… to dungeon, or not to dungeon… that is the question. Whether tis nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous bosses…

I really really hope ANet doesn’t listen and respond to this post. The monthlies are perfect how they are. Casuals are casuals… meaning they play casually and don’t have time to worry about things like monthlies.

Wouldn’t be a problem if there was a proper LFG tool.

Lots of definitions of what casual means.
It takes an hour to do a dungeon run. If you cannot commit to it that is fine but not everything in the game needs to be targeted to the <1 hour gamer demographic.

Leave things in for lots of playstyles. I hate sPvP but I am happy they now have achievements for them even though I will never get them myself.

i m a casual player too

And one of those reallysad for the ascended gear thing…

but
Lvl 1 fractal is not too difficult for lvl 80 players.
Whereas
WvWvW monthly requirement is far worse expecially for people with lower requirements pc (i.e. most casual).

The difficult part is finding a lvl 1 group .-. (but trust me is worse to look for lvl 2+)

Why does the PvE monthly contain PvP achievement when there already is a PvP monthly. That needs to be addressed.

I am not able to complete monthlies any more as I don’t do dungeons. My fault? maybe, but there are a lot of players I have come across who don’t do dungeons, mainly because they feel the rewards are not worth the effort.

I am on 16% of the monthly which is 16% more than I expected to get, I have little to no interest in WvW atm, hate dungeons, haven’t even been to ‘new area’, if they gave me a year I still would probabley be on 16% and it’s fine by me.
Mind you, even if they made one of next monthsachievements to kill xxx Risen in Orr I still wouldn’t be all that inclinded to go there, well, not till the risen mobs are taken off steroids xD

Wow, people will complain about everything!!!!!! It’s an achievement. You don’t get direct gear or major bonuses by doing it. You get Karma and Mystic Coins. It’s meant to be a small reward (and not game changing) to those who concentrate their efforts at doing this.

Hell, I’m a REALLY casual player and you know what? I just completed the November achievements yesterday. The first time since launch that I complete a monthly.

I suppose I’m a casual player, although I am able to commit upwards of 6 hours of play some days. I don’t get swept up in the constant call to arms for dungeons or pvp — there’s more to the game than that and kitten it I’m going to find it.

My problem with the current monthly is partly disinterest and partly game mechanics.

For some reason I don’t get tagged for killing people in WvW even though I directly contribute to sieges and skirmishes. I’ve watched myself land the killing blow on a target and still not get a monthly progress point, and as a result I’m struggling along at 15 for the month so far.

Unfortunately I don’t care enough about the rewards (as I’m not using the Mystic Forge or building a legendary) to do anything about it, and if I do need karma I make enough from the dailies. It’s this same apathy and disinterest that has prevented me from going into Fractals (and I honestly doubt that I will do so this month).

All in all, it’s been a pretty meh month for this casual.

Not everyone plays like everyone else, Id like to see some options in that list.

Like 5 dungeons and 7 Fractals “OR” 100 Dynamic Events …. things like that keep more people happy.

They have to start looking for ways to give players incentive to participate in the open world or there group Dynamic events just fail.

Tusuri.3178:

First: you are mistaking casuals with noobs.

Well, that’s a whole other argument.

I’m ‘casual’ in my play style. I have been playing for a lot of years. I have over the years had (or found) a lot of time to play. I don’t care for elitism. I don’t care to be told how to play, what to wear, what my stats should be, how I should be spec’d, at what precise second I have to press 3, what my rotation should be, or the mentality of those that go along with it. I don’t really care what sort of label you want to put on it, I don’t like to be around people like that.

So, I’m just ‘guessing’ here, you’d probably call me a noob besides a casual.

But on the other hand, I play a lot, so I’m able to gather lots of resources and do ‘some’ things that people who only play an hour or two a night can do, so now what am I?

Yet, I still only have 21 gold. All the time that I’ve played, that’s all I have. I haven’t bought ‘that’ much on the TP. Most of my purchases were pre-bot removal, when prices were reasonable. I made my own Exotics, that kept my outflow down. I don’t see, even with my /age, how people have 100s of gold? I guess they aren’t crafters? I’m a resource hoarder. As soon as I get all my crafting up and don’t need resources any more, I’ll start selling them.

So what does that make me in your eyes?

Labels are dangerous things.

Why do you feel the need to classify yourself as a casual?

If you are a casual (since you already labeled yourself as one), does missing the monthly reward really affect you? I don’t think it should.

Kerithlan.1659:

I suppose I’m a casual player, although I am able to commit upwards of 6 hours of play some days. I don’t get swept up in the constant call to arms for dungeons or pvp — there’s more to the game than that and kitten it I’m going to find it.

Oy, that’s not casual at all — you could do the entire month’s worth of dungeons in one play session, plus a couple fractals.

I think it’s fine if you don’t want to wvw and/or dungeon. Myself, I don’t anticipate getting many of the jumping puzzle achievements. But neither do I feel entitled to get credit for them if I don’t do them.

“don’t see, even with my /age, how people have 100s of gold? I guess they aren’t crafters?”

Don’t forget whipping out the old Visa card.

I don’t know the stats for Guild Wars but I have seen on other games where you can buy gold some people will spend upwards of $1000 a month on a game without blinking thier eye’s ….

notebene.3190:

Tusuri.3178:

First: you are mistaking casuals with noobs.

Well, that’s a whole other argument.

I’m ‘casual’ in my play style. I have been playing for a lot of years. I have over the years had (or found) a lot of time to play. I don’t care for elitism. I don’t care to be told how to play, what to wear, what my stats should be, how I should be spec’d, at what precise second I have to press 3, what my rotation should be, or the mentality of those that go along with it. I don’t really care what sort of label you want to put on it, I don’t like to be around people like that.

So, I’m just ‘guessing’ here, you’d probably call me a noob besides a casual.

But on the other hand, I play a lot, so I’m able to gather lots of resources and do ‘some’ things that people who only play an hour or two a night can do, so now what am I?

Yet, I still only have 21 gold. All the time that I’ve played, that’s all I have. I haven’t bought ‘that’ much on the TP. Most of my purchases were pre-bot removal, when prices were reasonable. I made my own Exotics, that kept my outflow down. I don’t see, even with my /age, how people have 100s of gold? I guess they aren’t crafters? I’m a resource hoarder. As soon as I get all my crafting up and don’t need resources any more, I’ll start selling them.

So what does that make me in your eyes?

Labels are dangerous things.

What I see is that you don’t like snobs (me neither), you consider yourself a noob (which is the equivalent of “not too competitive” player, to put it in a friendly manner) and that you play a lot (hardcore gamer by the time you invest), although you’re not a farmer/grinder neither pull too much from your Credit Card by the amount of gold you have (a thing that imo honours you).

Just to clarify one point: casual/hardcore terms are usually used in relation with the amount of TIME you commit to a particular game. Which are as valid as any etiquettes can be (don’t forget that we (EU and USA at least) live in a rationalistic culture that is fond of clasifying and putting etiquettes ).

((EDIT: typos))

mulch.2586:

Kerithlan.1659:

I suppose I’m a casual player, although I am able to commit upwards of 6 hours of play some days. I don’t get swept up in the constant call to arms for dungeons or pvp — there’s more to the game than that and kitten it I’m going to find it.

Oy, that’s not casual at all — you could do the entire month’s worth of dungeons in one play session, plus a couple fractals.

I think it’s fine if you don’t want to wvw and/or dungeon. Myself, I don’t anticipate getting many of the jumping puzzle achievements. But neither do I feel entitled to get credit for them if I don’t do them.

Note that I did say some days, not all the time. Note that I did not say (or even imply) that I am entitled to rewards I don’t obtain. Quite the opposite, if I recall.

Not to be cranky and contrary (I seem to be stuck in a rut right now, sorry).

On the days that I can commit that much time it goes mostly to exploring with guild mates. We make a conscious effort to move on from something if we can’t get it at least going within 20 minutes. For things like mini dungeons and jumping puzzles that sometimes means 2-3 hours getting it done, or it means an hour of putzing around and ultimately achieving nothing beyond a social meetup. We’re not super committed to anything beyond the social.

Pradton.8576:

Why do you feel the need to classify yourself as a casual?

If you are a casual (since you already labeled yourself as one), does missing the monthly reward really affect you? I don’t think it should.

Excellent point. Would a casual care about missing one monthly achievement?

Pradton.8576:

Why do you feel the need to classify yourself as a casual?

If you are a casual (since you already labeled yourself as one), does missing the monthly reward really affect you? I don’t think it should.

As I explained in my post, it doesn’t affect me. So at least for me it’s not a concern.

Kerithlan.1659:

mulch.2586:

Kerithlan.1659:

I suppose I’m a casual player, although I am able to commit upwards of 6 hours of play some days. I don’t get swept up in the constant call to arms for dungeons or pvp — there’s more to the game than that and kitten it I’m going to find it.

Oy, that’s not casual at all — you could do the entire month’s worth of dungeons in one play session, plus a couple fractals.

I think it’s fine if you don’t want to wvw and/or dungeon. Myself, I don’t anticipate getting many of the jumping puzzle achievements. But neither do I feel entitled to get credit for them if I don’t do them.

Note that I did say some days, not all the time. Note that I did not say (or even imply) that I am entitled to rewards I don’t obtain. Quite the opposite, if I recall.

Not to be cranky and contrary (I seem to be stuck in a rut right now, sorry).

On the days that I can commit that much time it goes mostly to exploring with guild mates. We make a conscious effort to move on from something if we can’t get it at least going within 20 minutes. For things like mini dungeons and jumping puzzles that sometimes means 2-3 hours getting it done, or it means an hour of putzing around and ultimately achieving nothing beyond a social meetup. We’re not super committed to anything beyond the social.

Right, I got that. I thought I was agreeing with you about not feeling entitled.

IME w/ GW2 (and most other games) — go out and have fun, usually you get rewarded for it. Whereas if you go out and try to get rewarded, you don’t always have fun.

Edit: A side note that’s related to the thread — yall should note that each path counts as a separate dungeon run for the achievement.

mulch.2586:

Kerithlan.1659:

mulch.2586:

Kerithlan.1659:

I suppose I’m a casual player, although I am able to commit upwards of 6 hours of play some days. I don’t get swept up in the constant call to arms for dungeons or pvp — there’s more to the game than that and kitten it I’m going to find it.

Oy, that’s not casual at all — you could do the entire month’s worth of dungeons in one play session, plus a couple fractals.

I think it’s fine if you don’t want to wvw and/or dungeon. Myself, I don’t anticipate getting many of the jumping puzzle achievements. But neither do I feel entitled to get credit for them if I don’t do them.

Note that I did say some days, not all the time. Note that I did not say (or even imply) that I am entitled to rewards I don’t obtain. Quite the opposite, if I recall.

Not to be cranky and contrary (I seem to be stuck in a rut right now, sorry).

On the days that I can commit that much time it goes mostly to exploring with guild mates. We make a conscious effort to move on from something if we can’t get it at least going within 20 minutes. For things like mini dungeons and jumping puzzles that sometimes means 2-3 hours getting it done, or it means an hour of putzing around and ultimately achieving nothing beyond a social meetup. We’re not super committed to anything beyond the social.

Right, I got that. I thought I was agreeing with you about not feeling entitled.

IME w/ GW2 (and most other games) — go out and have fun, usually you get rewarded for it. Whereas if you go out and try to get rewarded, you don’t always have fun.

My apologies then.

What is it that you don’t like about dungeons?

It might sound strange, but other than the Dredge fractal, I don’t get a “dungeon” vibe from them at all. Maybe it’s because they are so short and linear. Dungeon has a connotation of being this long involved thing where one person can dramatically affect the run. Fractals feel more like isolated dynamic events or story mode missions and are significantly easier than any of the dungeons.

Does a one off challenge-mode type scenario automatically qualify something as a casual-unfriendly dungeon? I thought these were much more accessible. Casuals can stick to lower difficulty levels and the people that want that extra difficulty can level themselves up to make it harder. Aren’t casuals the entire reason you can pick a difficulty below the lowest level achieved by the party before you start?

I actually really like the Monthly, it always has something different in it which shows everyone different parts of the game. I generally don’t have too much impetus to do Dungeons (Even though I enjoy them a lot) but this month has been different. Gives me mini goals.

Not everyone can complete the monthlys, I’m pretty sure there will be ones in the future which I won’t be able to complete but that’s the way it goes. You can’t expect everything to be tailored directly at your play style.

Furthermore you can run a dungeon in less an hour, I find it hard to believe people can never play for more than an hour.

Yeah, I’m not big on dungeons, so I may not get this monthly done. But so what? It’s just an achievement, and not a permanent one at that. Obviously they included the Fractals as a way to advertise them.

Just don’t do the monthly, problem solved. =D

Caelib.2497:

The single chunk of time to complete 1 dungeon is more than I am able to invest. Dungeons aren’t designed for casual players from the perspective of time investment and difficulty. I saw an interview near launch that stated the Daily and Monthly Achievements were design to help casual players keep up by getting fast experience every day — this is no longer true ..

If you can’t invest 20 minutes five times over the course of 1 month, you don’t deserve the monthly achievement. Yes, some CoF and AC paths can be easily done in 20 minutes. They’re laughably easy too.

Daily’s are there to get you to play each day, and monthlies are there to get you to play it even more. The more/longer you play, the more likely you are to buy gems, thus more profit.

Caelib.2497:

The single chunk of time to complete 1 dungeon is more than I am able to invest.

You can’t spend at least 1 hour to do them? wha…er… what do you do in game then? o.O Or do you log in everyday for 5 minutes, say hello to everyone, then leave?

Xaxir.3562:

Not everything should be designed for casuals ONLY.

My opinion exactly.
While I used to be an elitist, I don’t have the time to be one anymore. I rest easy knowing that it is me myself that prevents me from achieving everything this game has to offer. If the game pukes everything out to the casuals, well… anyone with a little more time 100% completes it no time.

Xaxir.3562:

As far as i understand – noone forces you to do the achievements. I play for 1-2 hours a day if i have time, so you can call me pretty casual – and i am not stressing as much about not being able to complete everything.

Not everything should be designed for casuals ONLY.

Watch the manifesto, this game was originally for casuals, not for dungeoneers.

Secondly, making the monthly require this dungeon for the monthly is the same slap in the face they gave crafters by making the important expensive mats only drop in the dungeons.

Completely opposite of their manifesto and completely against their main player base.

tigirius.9014:

Xaxir.3562:

As far as i understand – noone forces you to do the achievements. I play for 1-2 hours a day if i have time, so you can call me pretty casual – and i am not stressing as much about not being able to complete everything.

Not everything should be designed for casuals ONLY.

Watch the manifesto, this game was originally for casuals, not for dungeoneers.

Secondly, making the monthly require this dungeon for the monthly is the same slap in the face they gave crafters by making the important expensive mats only drop in the dungeons.

Completely opposite of their manifesto and completely against their main player base.

Tigirius, would you mind scrolling up and reading my post and giving me your response. Because I really don’t see how anyone was slapped in the face. Fractals was designed for casual players. Everything about it is casual. The people that want a more hardcore or challenging experience have to put time in to bring it up to that level.

CoF path 1 can be done in 15 minutes with a pug. I don’t see the issue here?

The 5 dungeons really isn’t a big deal but if you don’t like it, it’ll probably be something different next month.

As for time investment, you have time to do AC or CoF explore modes. They’re like 20-30 minutes.

Just from a game design standpoint, wouldn’t it make more sense to use the Monthly Achievement to incentivize the things that aren’t currently the flavor of the month?

So the month you release a new dungeon, the achievement revolves around WvW.

The month you make a big WvW update, the achievement reolves around dungeons.

That way you encourage the population to continue to spread out over the game’s areas rather than all concentrating on the hot new thing, and making the other areas a ghost town.

Casual, hardcore, whatever. Just a thought.

The hell with monthly , weekl, daily achievments….just play the game. If they happen to pop…cool. If not, so what? Just my opinion anyway.

Monthly achievemnnt? What is this didnt even notice I dont even……

I must be very casual didnt even know this existed. Oh well. OP two hours a night ofr nmore that some of us are doing is not casual it is an obsession. Hold your head up high and be happy with your well balanced life. Dont waste your time worrying about this junk. And Ive logged 500 hours probably so I classify myself in the obsessed.

I respect those of you at level 35 etc. Be proud of your self control.

tigirius.9014:

Xaxir.3562:

As far as i understand – noone forces you to do the achievements. I play for 1-2 hours a day if i have time, so you can call me pretty casual – and i am not stressing as much about not being able to complete everything.

Not everything should be designed for casuals ONLY.

Watch the manifesto, this game was originally for casuals, not for dungeoneers.

Secondly, making the monthly require this dungeon for the monthly is the same slap in the face they gave crafters by making the important expensive mats only drop in the dungeons.

Completely opposite of their manifesto and completely against their main player base.

I just went and re-watched the manifesto. There’s nothing in there that it’s for casuals not dungeoneers. There’s nothing in there about achievements, monthly or otherwise.

The only thing possibly relevant is CJ’s line about having to do a bunch of boring things to get to the fun stuff. In a game with 32(?) different dungeon runs, asking you to do 5 for an optional monthly achievement isn’t requiring a grind. It’s just giving you the option to earn an achievement for participating in a variety of the game’s content.

Caelib.2497:

I really enjoy playing Guild Wars 2, but the November Monthly Achievement is not something myself, or many other casual players will be able to complete.

The single chunk of time to complete 1 dungeon is more than I am able to invest. Dungeons aren’t designed for casual players from the perspective of time investment and difficulty. I saw an interview near launch that stated the Daily and Monthly Achievements were design to help casual players keep up by getting fast experience every day — this is no longer true .

This change alienates a significant portion of your player base so you should strongly consider the time investment task you put into the Monthly Achievement for December.

Serious?. It takes like 20-25 minutes to do 1 path of CoF that would count to your monthly. Same with TA and HoTW takes about 1 hour tops. These forums are filled with a bunch of whining kitten people i swear. How easy do they have to make the instances to satisfy people like you?

We are not this games demographic. They dont want us or our money. It is very clear now who they want – see Lindsays post.
They want uber elite grinders who spend hour after hour/day grinding in the dungeon for shiny +5 stats.
Why else would they implement dungeon based on gating and treadmill. Not for the casuals I can tell you that.Why spend dev time if it wasnt a priority right?

They are who Anet want – we dont belong here and that is made clear by the silence.
WOT got a nice investment of $200 since Anet doesnt want me or my money.

Casuals don’t care much about the monthly achievements. If you’re overly concerned with the monthly achievements, chances are, your not casual.

Narkosys.5173:

We are not this games demographic. They dont want us or our money. It is very clear now who they want – see Lindsays post.
They want uber elite grinders who spend hour after hour/day grinding in the dungeon for shiny +5 stats.
Why else would they implement dungeon based on gating and treadmill. Not for the casuals I can tell you that.Why spend dev time if it wasnt a priority right?

They are who Anet want – we dont belong here and that is made clear by the silence.
WOT got a nice investment of $200 since Anet doesnt want me or my money.

Could you be more of a drama queen. This game is about as casual as an mmorpg could be. The only thing that would take a while is legendary weapons and some of the unique mystic weapons/armor skins.