Guild Wars 2

Can we pretty pretty please have some kind of update, or even an FYI, on build saving? I already go through 3-4 builds on my elementalist with only one Elite specialization and I know everyone will want to be switching back and forth more easily.

I’d even settle for a ‘we aren’t intending on working on this’, just some kind of indication what ANET’s stance on it is.

Thank you!

I’ve thought about what I would love to see implemented into this game many times. This has basically topped the list every time. Give us the ability to save two specs/gear at the very least. More than that is just gravy.

This has to come. It is annoying and ancient. Even GW1 had build templates. Same with UI – let us change the UI and add additional side bars for food, gizmos, minis etc. (I bring this topic every couple of months).

I am still not sure I’d not go a step further and remove a lot of customization in favor of just having simple picks from a dropdown. I understand build templates are more or less the same thing, but it’d also massively simplify the spec/trait setups and remove a lot of things which can break.

What I mean is, we have millions of options. And yet we pick from a dozen of “builds”. These include runes, sigils, gear stats, traits, skills, everything. So… why are all of these separate options? Why don’t things such as stats, traits etc all get folded?

I’d probably go with Skills, Weapon, Traitlines. Traitlines don’t have further picks inside them, they also each give a fixed amount of stat bonuses and/or procs (to replace sigils/runes). Depending on traitline. So all I have to do to swap things is swap out the traitlines and maybe equip a different weapon.

Carighan.6758:

I am still not sure I’d not go a step further and remove a lot of customization in favor of just having simple picks from a dropdown. I understand build templates are more or less the same thing, but it’d also massively simplify the spec/trait setups and remove a lot of things which can break.

Removing customization isn’t something I’d want at all personally. We already have the much to widespread belief in meta builds even for content that doesn’t need them. Why essentially enforce them even more?

Let’s just focus on what I think everybody would agree on and ask for a way to save builds/equipment at the very least.

If memory serves, I had something similar in EQ2 and prior to that a text-based MUD. However, and please forgive my failing memory, I think the items needed to be in your inventory. If templates came in, it’d be nice to equip/unequip from a bank slot or perhaps a dedicated tab somewhere that’s outside inventory space.

Appreciate builds would be a separate issue.

Carighan.6758:

I am still not sure I’d not go a step further and remove a lot of customization in favor of just having simple picks from a dropdown. I understand build templates are more or less the same thing, but it’d also massively simplify the spec/trait setups and remove a lot of things which can break.

What I mean is, we have millions of options. And yet we pick from a dozen of “builds”. These include runes, sigils, gear stats, traits, skills, everything. So… why are all of these separate options? Why don’t things such as stats, traits etc all get folded?

I’d probably go with Skills, Weapon, Traitlines. Traitlines don’t have further picks inside them, they also each give a fixed amount of stat bonuses and/or procs (to replace sigils/runes). Depending on traitline. So all I have to do to swap things is swap out the traitlines and maybe equip a different weapon.

But if you do that, well over the half the Meta builds wouldn’t be possible if they adhered to the Trait line’s theme. And it makes even less sense since all Especs have Utility for Damage, Control and Support rolled into it.

The narrow meta is symptomatic of the players, not systemic to the buildcraft. Encounter design also drives a lot of the meta; and prior to raids enforcing diversity in roles, dungeon speed clear meta came about because people were farming CoF more then any other dungeon in the game. And born out of the same laziness that created the Zerks meta, the players tried to forcibly apply it to every other part of the game…and would avoid it if the level didn’t cooperate. And rather then mix up the builds, we just kept forcing it until zerks become so prominent, the Devs had to design something that would directly counter it…. which is how we got the first batch of Modrem in Drytop/Silverwastes, and their over the top use of every CC and AOE known in the game.

So no…. binding the trait lines to stats and fixed traits doesn’t fix the problem. If anything, it’ll make it worse, as classes would be shut out due to lacking utility. We’ve already seen what happens when a key trait gets nerfed, resulting in a huge shift in meta that built around it. By making key traits and trait lines the same thing, losing that one thing that makes you useful will cause people to drop classes even more then they do now.

starlinvf.1358:

The narrow meta is symptomatic of the players, not systemic to the buildcraft.

But see, in theory this is correct, yes. Only this assumes an infinite amount of resources to use for balancing purposes and game design.

Even in extremely narrow designs (WoW after the removal of talent trees for example, or with vanilla trees), perfect balance is usually agreed to be impossible. Even the best of balance will still lead to clear favoritism by the community, and in WoW, even with the much much larger money and manpower Blizzard throws at that game, 2%-3% were all it took for one DPSer to be rolled by everyone and their mother.

Guild Wars 2 has… I’d guess easily x1000000 times the possible build options? And yet the balance is so problematic even between the handful of “meta” builds that even speculating about how great all these combinations could be is just … absurd. IMO. There is no value in the variety, and there hasn’t been for 5 years now.

If anything, a narrower choice system would lead to less players running around with extremely weak setups, then clinging to them because of the time invested. Setups they end up with as a result of a deluge of options, a lack of clarity, a lack of balance and an absence of explanations.

As the game hasn’t significantly changed in this regard in, well, 5 years now (and to be fair given the raw amount of options I don’t blame the devs for this, again, WoW struggles to handle a teensy tiny fraction of choices with a much larger company), I don’t see how this would ever improve.

Because while yes, on paper a ton of options and custom setups would be nice, in reality first having 5-6 good setups per class and then as developers end up sitting around bored in the office breaking up elements into new choices, that seems much more sensible to me.

I didn’t think “build templates” referred to pre-made builds to select from which I would not desire. My view on “build templates” would be the ability so save a set of traits and skills (armor and weapons would be nice but rather complicated I think, would be contingent on keeping those in you inventory and what happens if you don’t have them on you?) Basically just the ability to select a set of traits in their trait lines, and utility skills as “build A” and another set for “build B” and a couple more and save them in your hero panel for quick, easy, consistent swapping between depending on situation =)

Carighan.6758:

starlinvf.1358:

The narrow meta is symptomatic of the players, not systemic to the buildcraft.

But see, in theory this is correct, yes. Only this assumes an infinite amount of resources to use for balancing purposes and game design.

Even in extremely narrow designs (WoW after the removal of talent trees for example, or with vanilla trees), perfect balance is usually agreed to be impossible. Even the best of balance will still lead to clear favoritism by the community, and in WoW, even with the much much larger money and manpower Blizzard throws at that game, 2%-3% were all it took for one DPSer to be rolled by everyone and their mother.

Guild Wars 2 has… I’d guess easily x1000000 times the possible build options? And yet the balance is so problematic even between the handful of “meta” builds that even speculating about how great all these combinations could be is just … absurd. IMO. There is no value in the variety, and there hasn’t been for 5 years now.

If anything, a narrower choice system would lead to less players running around with extremely weak setups, then clinging to them because of the time invested. Setups they end up with as a result of a deluge of options, a lack of clarity, a lack of balance and an absence of explanations.

As the game hasn’t significantly changed in this regard in, well, 5 years now (and to be fair given the raw amount of options I don’t blame the devs for this, again, WoW struggles to handle a teensy tiny fraction of choices with a much larger company), I don’t see how this would ever improve.

Because while yes, on paper a ton of options and custom setups would be nice, in reality first having 5-6 good setups per class and then as developers end up sitting around bored in the office breaking up elements into new choices, that seems much more sensible to me.

I agree with your premise, but that isn’t an excuse for why some things remain so broken for so long, or why other skills/traits are absolute garbage and Anet doesn’t care. Or why some classes haven’t yet been allowed a proper DPS spec at all outside of the most niche scenarios in game.

I enjoyed being able to trade builds in GW1.

starlinvf.1358:

in WoW, even with the much much larger money and manpower Blizzard throws at that game, 2%-3% were all it took for one DPSer to be rolled by everyone and their mother.

This is highly exagerated. In PvE most people don’t change their class for 2-3% of DPS increase. And only the “pure” DPS classes (mage, rogue, hunter, lock) change their spec at each patch (and only the players in top guilds). Even in PvP a lot of people, the majority I think, try to keep one class as a main.
In addition, since WOTLK (the third xpac, 2008), you will never be kicked from a group because of your class and spec (except maybe for the “pure” DPS class players wich are sometimes forced to change their spec). During WOTLK I played a spec a bit underperforming in a guild that aimed and succeded to be the first guild on the server, and I never was put aside because “bring the player, not the class” is the creed of Blizzard and the community integrated this on its mentality.
This is the main reason why WoW is still my main MMO today, despite I prefer GW2 in some ways.