Guild Wars 2

What’s going on with being unable to view the replies of a thread every couple replies anyway…once again I click the thread and nothing than the title shows up…does anyone know if there is a fix to it?

Soulwatcher.2604:

I love this game its the best game that I have played in a long time. Having said that Anet should not dictate how players should play a game. Games are meant to be played any way a player see’s fit. The way they are handling things right now is killing off the player base and I don’t want to see this game die.

This is what hits the spot. And this is how I see the game in its current light.
My question though: Is GW2 the only prominent/recent game that has a diminishing returns system?

It just does not rub the right way that they introduced this silently 2weeks in and not during the beta’s when everyone could decide on its merit.

I always thought forums were hilarious. It’s nice to see some differing opinions going on, but for the most part it’s just a back-and-forth between a couple of people arguing against someone else’s opinion. These are OPINIONS people. Don’t take them to heart because it’s just what that person thinks. You don’t need to anxiously reply with some trite response that contains no relevant data except for, guess what, YOUR opinion.

Regardless, the game has its flaws. No game is perfect. It’s kind of funny that people are talking about DR left and right though. While i’ve been playing, I didn’t actually notice it that much, but you know what? I can honestly say that i’ve been jaded. Once I read about DR, I began to notice it (thanks a lot). It didn’t even bother me at the time because I was busy having fun with the game. Maybe it’s because i’m not constantly comparing one game to another or looking for problems and just trying to relax, hang out with some friends in a game, and maybe kick some butt here and there.

The game hasn’t even been out that long. Why is everyone giving up on it so easily? Have we been programmed to instinctively give up on something just because it isn’t going our way? The game is FREE TO PLAY. Give it some time to become something. You could always take a break and come back to it when content has been fixed/updated. It’s almost like everyone has A.D.D, I swear.

Also, I enjoy the fact that we even have the option to complain about something, whether or not the “devs” (probably more of a business analyst) are even looking at the forums. We don’t need everyone jumping on the “horrible game” bandwagon. If the game has problems, then post your issue and leave it be. You shouldn’t need to defend your opinion against everyone and their mom. I only say this because it seems like the more back and forth banter that goes on, the more people feel the need to input themselves in the situation and then it continually chains from there, much like a domino effect.

So, what’s the verdict? Well, the game is pretty fun and awesome. I have 5 characters already, each a different profession. If I get tired of playing on one, then I go play on another. It may not be that simple for you, but i’m a pretty simple person.

Disclaimer: THIS IS ALL OPINION. I may be right, or I may be wrong. Yes, you have the right to correct me, but could you do it constructively and not condescendingly or with belligerence.

I would like to ,put a few points clear about the insults here:

if all the ‘wowtards’ leave GW2 than this game dies… it really will.
That has nothing to do with the fact which game is better, but it has everything to do with the simple fact that most MMO’ers play (or played) both.

If all of these wowtards leave, than no: GW2 will not be a better and more adult place… it will be an empty place where lonely true fans are forced to group up with the leftover elitist fanboys who they likely don’t like that much in the first place.

No one makes up being a father of 3, mentioning his job, and syaing he’s 33 on a gaming forum… It’s not like this is a cool thing to say or anything.
If you don’t belive him, don’t… but don’t make yourself a kitteny little fool by calling him a liar. Why the hell would he lie to the likes of you? I wouldn’t… you’re simply not worth it.

Now on topic:

this DR system isn’t liked, that much is clear. Even if it can be considered fair to some, or even is certain players think others shouldn’t farm that much (why the heck not…?) than still this is a contorversial decision to say the least.

Now look at the bigger picture:
WoW has been increadibly smart to force their MoP launch about a month after GW2… just when the novelty wears of and the real complaints (aside bugs) begin.
This DR system that’s implemented, pvp imbalance with mesmers and thiefs, unkillable guardians, still loads of bugs… the forums are filled with it.

At this very moment WoW has it’s named expansion, panda’s and all. WoW is far from the best game, true, but it is the one with the biggest player base. Including LOADS of GW2 players, like it or not.

To take such a measure like this DR system, which is bound to be screamed over (correct or not), at a time where WoW became interesting again for the first time in about half a year… This will really hurt GW2.
It will, and I’m not happy about that at all.

The elitists will rejoice at this: no more WoWtards! But they will end up in a game not having the playerbase it deserves.

Finalchrono.5023:

Maybe it’s because i’m not constantly comparing one game to another or looking for problems and just trying to relax, hang out with some friends in a game, and maybe kick some butt here and there.

My friends have quit.

Apos.5184:

lagrangeify.5641:

“Trust me on this once the damage has been done and a player quits 99% of the time they are not coming back!”

Oh I don’t know, WoW’s chock full of resolute quitters, I’ve met plenty of them.

Seriously though, why does it matter to you that people out there don’t agree with your sentiment that the mechanic is horrible? I’ve always been curious about that, it’s a very odd way of looking at things. So they don’t care about it as much as you do. Why pull out that old, tattered, terribly tired pejorative “fan boy”?

Oh yeah, tribalism.

Your question goes both ways: Why do you defend a mechanism that doesn’t affect you in any way?

If you enjoy doing various things and the diminishing returns do not affect you, then what is your problem against someone who actually wants to do that? And why do you have to go as far as assuming they are wow fanboys as well and calling them “wowtards”?

Oh yea, elitism…

We don’t dictate your play, why do you feel the urge of dictating ours?

Nope, not guilty as charged, I’m probably a lowest common denominator gamer, someone who just gets on with it, and if I dislike something enough I just move on.

What gets on my wick is every single counter-argument on both sides of an argument being reduced to name calling. But that’s MMO forums for you, why have a debate when you can just pull at the hair of your opponent instead?

Maybe it’s just my age and a little wisdom that’s gathered on this old rolling stone, but I realised a while ago that when MMOs are run like a democracy it becomes an exercise in polishing a kitten I choose instead to work with what I’m given. Some things are worth having a debate about, ANet’s decision to employ DR in an effort to combat bots that literally sit in a single area for hours on end seems reasonable to me, especially considering that it’s so easy for a non-bot like me to entirely circumvent with some good old fashioned circulating around the maps.

Far be it for me to suggest some of you try a different approach when you’d evidently prefer to keep chucking fuel on the fire and cause a conflagration. Carry on.

Gauradan.8361:

My friends have quit.

Well, sorry they can’t find some redeeming qualities in the game. There’s still plenty of people playing, why not gain some new friends? It is called GUILD wars :P. I’ll play with you.

Hmm, maybe i’m just a glass half full kind of guy.

@lag if I want to sit in one spot and kill the same mob over and over and its fun for me then I should be able to do it. Developers should never dictate a way a player should play. FFXIV tried that and look where that got them!

lagrangeify.5641:

Nope, not guilty as charged, I’m probably a lowest common denominator gamer, someone who just gets on with it, and if I dislike something enough I just move on.

What gets on my wick is every single counter-argument on both sides of an argument being reduced to name calling. But that’s MMO forums for you, why have a debate when you can just pull at the hair of your opponent instead?

Maybe it’s just my age and a little wisdom that’s gathered on this old rolling stone, but I realised a while ago that when MMOs are run like a democracy it becomes an exercise in polishing a kitten I choose instead to work with what I’m given. Some things are worth having a debate about, ANet’s decision to employ DR in an effort to combat bots that literally sit in a single area for hours on end seems reasonable to me, especially considering that it’s so easy for a non-bot like me to entirely circumvent with some good old fashioned circulating around the maps.

Far be it for me to suggest some of you try a different approach when you’d evidently prefer to keep chucking fuel on the fire and cause a conflagration. Carry on.

So, because you don’t have the urge to complain ,everyone who does obviously is a tosser kid, right?

First of all, the DR system is not something that was dictated upon the playerbase and the playerbase has every right to reach to something they don’t like.

Working with what you are given? Sure, sounds fun, unless the game decides to eventually give you nothing in return for your work, which is exactly what the diminishing returns do.

If you don’t want bots, then have a dedicated team on banning bot accounts. The DR system is like bombing an entire skyskrapper in order to dispose of a few select people that are inside.

Finalchrono.5023:

Gauradan.8361:

My friends have quit.

Well, sorry they can’t find some redeeming qualities in the game. There’s still plenty of people playing, why not gain some new friends? :P I’ll play with you.

Hmm, maybe i’m just a glass half full kind of guy.

I’m still playing the game, despite all these issues, because I’ve been waiting for it for 4 years. The game is awesome, that much is not questioned. I still get the occasional moment that makes me smile, like the quaggan humming in Caledon Forest.

The problem is this heap of bad decisions from ArenaNet is killing it. Every patch breaks more and more of the game, instead of fixing issues. The Arah opening event has been bugged on my server ever since the last patch and nobody’s done anything about it.

However, adding systems that work against the player, while also being unable to fix those bugs (for which I’m not blaming them, because I understand fixing bugs can be a pain) really does make them look bad. When those systems are bugged (like the dungeon DR system) it’s even worse.

Yes, it’s B2P and you can come back and check on it later, but how many people will actually return, even if they manage to get their act together? First impressions are always the strongest. If word gets around that Guild Wars 2 is a mess, it’s going to be hard to change that mentality.

Ronin.8095:

UndeadRufus.6832:

It’s dictatorial and quickly ensures the demise of a game shortly thereafter.

That must be why the original Guild Wars up and died.

Oh, wait….

That doesn’t mean this game won’t be affected.

Of course not. I was merely offering a counter-example to the claim that if X, then Y. However, if we’re going down the path of logic you adopt here, then your point about FFXIV is equally moot.

There’s far too much wrong with it right now.

Here you proffer yet another unqualified statement. “Too much” relative to what? Frankly, I’ve found Guild Wars 2 one of the smoother month-in MMOs, early trading post and server load issues notwithstanding.

It’s bugged so very badly.

There are bugs, some worse than others, but I wouldn’t rate the status of the game as “bugged so very badly.” That’s just arm-flapping histrionics.

Bots are everywhere and the presence of bots severly restricts the amount of loot and rewards you can get in a busy DE, as they’re all sword swinging melees right at the front.

Report them. ArenaNet is working on the problem. I’m not fully on board with the diminishing returns they’ve implemented, but the doom and gloom on this forum is just silly. Again, we’re a mere month into this thing.

As for all the other complaints you decided to shoehorn in there, you’re welcome to have your opinions. I think there are already umpteen threads about those issues. Guild Wars 2 isn’t built around collecting bundles of pixels with labels on them. You can strive for that end-goal if you so choose, but the driving philosophy of the game is centered on an overarching experience, not gear treadmills, dangling carrots or what have you.

UndeadRufus.6832:

As for all the other complaints you decided to shoehorn in there, you’re welcome to have your opinions. I think there are already umpteen threads about those issues. Guild Wars 2 isn’t built around collecting bundles of pixels with labels on them. You can strive for that end-goal if you so choose, but the driving philosophy of the game is centered on an overarching experience, not gear treadmills, dangling carrots or what have you.

No, Guild Wars 2 is about playing your way. If I want to farm hundreds upon hundreds of gold I should be able to do so in a manner which doesn’t make me feel like I’m wasting my time.

Auron.2657:

Your taking this out of proportion for what it really is.

Gw2 fanboy looks like the Honeymoon is over….

@Undead your right were a month in and that’s when people start to give up on a game and by they 90-day mark they are ghost towns. Now is not the time to upset your player base!

Kimbald.2697:

I would like to ,put a few points clear about the insults here:

if all the ‘wowtards’ leave GW2 than this game dies… it really will.
That has nothing to do with the fact which game is better, but it has everything to do with the simple fact that most MMO’ers play (or played) both.

Let me explain. You have WoW players, and then you have a small but vocal subset of WoW players we professional WoWtard observers call “WoWtards”. Most WoW players are perfectly normal and sane, WoWtards on the other hand are the sort of player that any MMO would be better off without.

Unfortunately they are usually over-represented on new MMO forums.

How to recognize them? Principally by the fact that they’re unable to play a new game on its own terms, and constantly compare this or that aspect of any new game to WoW.

If it’s similar to WoW, it’s copying WoW, if it’s different from WoW, it’s also fail. The enunciation of that peculiar double bind is the primary distinguishing mark of WoWtard-ery.

Gauradan.8361:

No, Guild Wars 2 is about playing your way. If I want to farm hundreds upon hundreds of gold I should be able to do so in a manner which doesn’t make me feel like I’m wasting my time.

If your play-style goes against the core design philosophy of the game, then I see no reason why ArenaNet should endeavor to entertain it. If enough people decide they don’t like this, and the numbers reflect widespread dissatisfaction among the player base, then of course they miscalculated and will need to reexamine this approach. Personally, I’ve yet to be bothered by it. A mere month in, I don’t think we can jump to any conclusions except that there is a bot/spam problem, and ArenaNet is seeking a long-term solution.

Southwatcher

@Undead your right were a month in and that’s when people start to give up on a game and by they 90-day mark they are ghost towns. Now is not the time to upset your player base

I don’t think it’s been conclusively established that ArenaNet has “upset [the] player base.” I think some people are upset, and the forum rage is evident, but then that’s going to be the case every time a skill is changed, a boss is nerfed/buffed, or just about any other change is implemented.

I’m curious as to what you’re basing your give-up / ghost town claim on. I suspect that any game, regardless of its success or long-term viability, is likely to see a steady or even abrupt drop-off after a month or so. The shiny wears off. Humans are rather skritt-like after all, it would seem.

@Undead look at Star Wars Bioware spent $300 million developing the game and by 90 days it was a ghost town and now its going free to play. That’s just one example! Just because a game is free to play doesn’t mean players are going to keep playing if there unhappy.

P.S. if you want proof of a unhappy player base go to the 1~70 zones they are ghost towns which means lack of new sales and people not happy enough with the game to make new alts!

Soulwatcher.2604:

@Undead look at Star Wars Bioware spent $300 million developing the game and by 90 days it was a ghost town and now its going free to play. That’s just one example! Just because a game is free to play doesn’t mean players are going to keep playing if there unhappy.

Yeah, that’s one example, and SWTOR also happens to be subscription-based. I wouldn’t have paid monthly for that game even if it had been good. So not a very good example. In any case, you’ve run into the same wall that Ronin inadvertently built with the FF parallel.

P.S. if you want proof of a unhappy player base go to the 1~70 zones they are ghost towns which means lack of new sales and people not happy enough with the game to make new alts!

I have five characters, all of them still in lvl 1-70 areas. I haven’t found myself in a ghost town yet, so I have to say that my experience doesn’t square with your prophecy o’ doom.

Undead if you want to see a dead f2p game look no further then D3! Like I said just because a game is free doesn’t mean people will keep playing;

I’m good at games and succeed in MMOs, but I have more fun in the forum than the game. I’ve discovered this after 2 weeks of playing.

That’s the death-knell and it really appears to be the case for lots of people.

The difference is, with other recent big releases, is that this is a bonafide MMO. Not an ARPG or any other variation.

It plays like a stand-alone single player console game just that there’s bots in it and some other people.

Also have you had a look around the areas of the world, I was on Gandara, before I moved to a less populated server to try and get some Orr DE action with less bots, but the same was the case on the new server. The other areas of the game are desolate.

It’s quite shocking.

I’ll go back to EVE once I get confirmation that the DR will never be taken out. No histrionics, I’ve lost more than ~$100 before to folly. It doesn’t mean I can’t walk away disappointed and feeling lied to. Which I do right now.

You’ll probably say, “Good riddance!” when I say I’m going to leave, but I know it’s going to be a very similar pattern in the next few months.

Drastic changes need to be made and ANet are far too rigid in their stance on things like DR and anti-farming measures.

You can never punish your players because of a tiny minority of other players that exploit your game.

DR is a lazy, blanket, easily-applied, low maintenance, cheap way of appearing to try to do something about botting.

What it really actually does it move the bots elsewhere and to places where they really get in our way.

That’s so badly though out, I want to laugh.

Imagine if they introduce a storyline or a quest of some kind that means getting an item that drops from a specific mob. It’s very common in MMOs. Where’s your DR then?

You’ll be stopped from farming that essential storyline item effectively.

It hasn’t happened yet, but that’s a massive oversight with DR. It’ll affect every else except the bots and turn the game into a laughing stock.

I keep saying this, I’ve seen it happen, have first-hand experience of it happening and the longer a dev team ignores the problem they bigger the hole becomes.

So here’s to something changing, but I already have a feeling, from all the feedback from people supporting the game, sanely or insanely, that it won’t change and ANet feels like it’ll never need to change.

That’s fair enough. You’re entitled to your opinions and to express them as much as I am.

Don’t expect to have a popular title to play that will last any amount of time, though. That won’t change.

Soulwatcher.2604:

Undead if you want to see a dead f2p game look no further then D3! Like I said just because a game is free doesn’t mean people will keep playing;

You said games start to die in a month without catering to a list of nebulously-defined demands. I asked what you base this on, and you gave the “example” of SWTOR (which we can dismiss for my stated reasons).

You said to look at the level 1-70 areas to see the ghost town GW2 is becoming. I replied that I have spent nearly all of my in-game time in those areas, and I don’t observe any such thing.

So now you’re invoking D3? Really?

I never said people would play a game just because it’s free. Nobody here has said that, as far as I can recall. Why do you find it necessary to continue countering a position that no one has actually taken?

UndeadRufus.6832:

Soulwatcher.2604:

Undead if you want to see a dead f2p game look no further then D3! Like I said just because a game is free doesn’t mean people will keep playing;

You said games start to die in a month without catering to a list of nebulously-defined demands. I asked what you base this on, and you gave the “example” of SWTOR (which we can dismiss for my stated reasons).

You said to look at the level 1-70 areas to see the ghost town GW2 is becoming. I replied that I have spent nearly all of my in-game time in those areas, and I don’t observe any such thing.

So now you’re invoking D3? Really?

I never said people would play a game just because it’s free. Nobody here has said that, as far as I can recall. Why do you find it necessary to continue countering a position that no one has actually taken?

Actually, D3 is the perfect example of the fate a game has when the developers decide to invoke how its playerbase should play the game.

Not only was the drop rates crap on their own, but the developers decided that they wanted their playerbase to kill the rare/elite packs instead of bosses in order to get decent loot. Packs that had random affixes and were insanely hard,oftenly one shotting people.

Then the playerbase abandoned the game. A lot of the playerbase. And they never returned, even when they reduced the difficulty of these packs.

See the pattern? Some mistakes are better fixed back, otherwise they are not reversed easily, if at all.

GW2 wasn’t meant to be played for months and months and months. It’s been acknowledged by Anet that they fully expect people to finish and then leave and then maybe come back later for new content or expansions or what have you. So, sure, people are leaving, and people will continue to leave — working as expected, really. It isn’t a game that is dependent on subs, and as you can tell from what they put in the CS, it isn’t dependent on that either. It’s an overwhelmingly box sale centric business model. So, yes, people will leave when they are done, or are bored, or don’t like this or that. That’s an expected thing — unlike SWTOR, which expected millions of subs on a stabilized basis.

Apos.5184:

UndeadRufus.6832:

Soulwatcher.2604:

Undead if you want to see a dead f2p game look no further then D3! Like I said just because a game is free doesn’t mean people will keep playing;

You said games start to die in a month without catering to a list of nebulously-defined demands. I asked what you base this on, and you gave the “example” of SWTOR (which we can dismiss for my stated reasons).

You said to look at the level 1-70 areas to see the ghost town GW2 is becoming. I replied that I have spent nearly all of my in-game time in those areas, and I don’t observe any such thing.

So now you’re invoking D3? Really?

I never said people would play a game just because it’s free. Nobody here has said that, as far as I can recall. Why do you find it necessary to continue countering a position that no one has actually taken?

Actually, D3 is the perfect example of the fate a game has when the developers decide to invoke how its playerbase should play the game.

Not only was the drop rates crap on their own, but the developers decided that they wanted their playerbase to kill the rare/elite packs instead of bosses in order to get decent loot. Packs that had random affixes and were insanely hard,oftenly one shotting people.

Then the playerbase abandoned the game. A lot of the playerbase. And they never returned, even when they reduced the difficulty of these packs.

See the pattern? Some mistakes are better fixed back, otherwise they are not reversed easily, if at all.

Except D3 was an ARPG and was really played as a stand alone by the majority of its populace. People did team up, but the average player would play alone.

It had the totally insane DRM which also exacerbated its problems.

This, this mess here, is an MMO. That makes me laugh. Out loud.

How on Earth it intends to survive with DR, the incessant bugs (it’s not teething problems, sorry) and the increasing and increasinly aggressive bots, I have no idea.

It’s like they sat around a table and devised the anti-MMO. They took every bad aspect and concept and made sure they were in this game.

DR does not stop the bots, it moves them elsewhere and stop us.

That’s the truth.

@knight your only fooling yourself if you don’t think Anet likes Gem sales. They want to keep you in the game as long as possible and they want you to buy lots of gems. With out Gem sales sooner or latter they would be forced to shut the game down because of lack of funds!

knightblaster.8027:

GW2 wasn’t meant to be played for months and months and months. It’s been acknowledged by Anet that they fully expect people to finish and then leave and then maybe come back later for new content or expansions or what have you. So, sure, people are leaving, and people will continue to leave — working as expected, really. It isn’t a game that is dependent on subs, and as you can tell from what they put in the CS, it isn’t dependent on that either. It’s an overwhelmingly box sale centric business model. So, yes, people will leave when they are done, or are bored, or don’t like this or that. That’s an expected thing — unlike SWTOR, which expected millions of subs on a stabilized basis.

A box-sale centric business model for a Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game is a really really bad idea at conception.

It’s actually quite stupid. There’s no incentive for the development team to tend to the game or even give the slightest kitten about it.

It puts the focus on selling the box and making the idea and advertising for the game as glossy as possible, but not continuing content after that. What’s the point?

At least I know of say, EVE or other subs I’ve paid that it is this money that keeps the development team pushing for better gameplay for me. It makes them cater to my needs as a gamer, which is exactly how it should be.

Here, I’ve got stuck in the crossfire in a losing battle against some bots, that’s going to take the game down.

As you say, it’s a box-oriented business model. You get my money when I’m in the door and then I either like it or go away after that!? That’s the deal here?

Yeah, good luck with that business model for a fluid MMO, which this officially advertises itself as.

It’s dead in the water if it’s only about box sales and saddens me to learn that.

Ronin.8095:

I’m good at games and succeed in MMOs, but I have more fun in the forum than the game. I’ve discovered this after 2 weeks of playing.

That’s the death-knell and it really appears to be the case for lots of people.

That definitely seems like a fundamental issue to consider. I’m not on these forums much. The only reason I was here to find this thread is that I wanted to make sure it was safe to take the attached copper now being sent by gold spammers, so I could delete the message. I’d much rather play the game than fight about it.

It plays like a stand-alone single player console game just that there’s bots in it and some other people.

I’m not even sure what this means, or what you think an MMO is or should be.

The other areas of the game are desolate.

I’ve played almost every day since release, and I have yet to observe this.

It doesn’t mean I can’t walk away disappointed and feeling lied to. Which I do right now.

You weren’t lied to. ArenaNet’s philosophy has been abundantly clear for years, and I don’t think they’ve done anything to go against it. Maybe you expected one thing and go something else. If that’s the case, you simply didn’t learn enough about the game before diving in.

You’ll probably say, “Good riddance!” when I say I’m going to leave, but I know it’s going to be a very similar pattern in the next few months.

While I think your dissatisfaction is probably your own doing in large part, I’m not inclined to say “good riddance” to a non-troll. In general, I prefer players in the game to not.

Drastic changes need to be made and ANet are far too rigid in their stance on things like DR and anti-farming measures.

Possibly. I’m willing to give them more time.

You can never punish your players because of a tiny minority of other players that exploit your game.

Forcing you to relocate after farming the crap out of one area isn’t a punishment.

DR is a lazy, blanket, easily-applied, low maintenance, cheap way of appearing to try to do something about botting.

Possibly, but it isn’t a punishment.

What it really actually does it move the bots elsewhere and to places where they really get in our way.

Report them. If you don’t think ArenaNet can/will eventually solve the problem, or at least mitigate it, then I don’t know what to say.

That’s so badly though out, I want to laugh.

I disagree, but okay.

Imagine if they introduce a storyline or a quest of some kind that means getting a item that drops from a specific mob. It’s very common in MMOs. Where’s your DR then?

You’ll be stopped from farming that essential storyline item effectively.

Story missions are contained within instances, so that isn’t an issue.

Renown missions and events do sometimes unfold in this manner, and the necessary quest items will drop from the specific enemies in the mission area every single time.

It hasn’t happened yet, but that’s a massive oversight with DR. It’ll affect every else except the bots and turn the game into a laughing stock.

If ArenaNet introduced a mission or event that required an item that has been nerfed by anti-farming code, then I agree, that would be extremely stupid. Of course, if that were to happen, you could type “/bug” in the chat window, tick the “Blocking Progress” box, and report the issue.

I doubt they would deliberately do such a thing, but I suppose there’s a remote chance of them being pure evil as some of the people on this forum seem to believe.

I keep saying this, I’ve seen it happen, have first-hand experience of it happening and the longer a dev team ignores the problem they bigger the hole becomes.

You do keep saying it. That much is true.

So here’s to something changing, but I already have a feeling, from all the feedback from people supporting the game, sanely or insanely, that it won’t change and ANet feels like it’ll never need to change.

ArenaNet is going to keep their cash cow alive. If they see definitive evidence that the player-base is waning beyond expected norms, I suspect they’ll change as necessary.

That’s fair enough. You’re entitled to your opinions and to express them as much as I am.

Don’t expect to have a popular title to play that will last any amount of time, though. That won’t change.

I think Guild Wars 2 will be around for a long time, as was the original Guild Wars. These same sorts of discussions came up surrounding the first game, at various points across its [continuing] lifespan. For whatever reason, MMO players are such a flighty bunch, with Chicken Littles around every corner.

@knight your only fooling yourself if you don’t think Anet likes Gem sales. They want to keep you in the game as long as possible and they want you to buy lots of gems. With out Gem sales sooner or latter they would be forced to shut the game down because of lack of funds!

Sure, they like people to buy gems — this is one reason why money is so tight in the game. But that’s very different from saying they are financially reliant on it. If they were, the entire thing (game, gem store, etc.) would have been designed in a very different way. And it isn’t hard to figure out how it would have been designed differently — just look at a F2P game with a CS. That’s what it looks like when a game is dependent on CS financially — and that isn’t GW2.

Apos.5184:

Actually, D3 is the perfect example of the fate a game has when the developers decide to invoke how its playerbase should play the game.

Actually, D3 is a perfect example of what happens when a classic ARPG franchise turns into an online-only cash shop.

Not only was the drop rates crap on their own, but the developers decided that they wanted their playerbase to kill the rare/elite packs instead of bosses in order to get decent loot. Packs that had random affixes and were insanely hard,oftenly one shotting people.

True, ’twas garbage.

Then the playerbase abandoned the game. A lot of the playerbase. And they never returned, even when they reduced the difficulty of these packs.

See the pattern? Some mistakes are better fixed back, otherwise they are not reversed easily, if at all.

No, I really don’t. You said that “D3 is the perfect example,” but then went off about something else.

gurugeorge.9857:

Kimbald.2697:

I would like to ,put a few points clear about the insults here:

if all the ‘wowtards’ leave GW2 than this game dies… it really will.
That has nothing to do with the fact which game is better, but it has everything to do with the simple fact that most MMO’ers play (or played) both.

Let me explain. You have WoW players, and then you have a small but vocal subset of WoW players we professional WoWtard observers call “WoWtards”. Most WoW players are perfectly normal and sane, WoWtards on the other hand are the sort of player that any MMO would be better off without.

Unfortunately they are usually over-represented on new MMO forums.

How to recognize them? Principally by the fact that they’re unable to play a new game on its own terms, and constantly compare this or that aspect of any new game to WoW.

If it’s similar to WoW, it’s copying WoW, if it’s different from WoW, it’s also fail. The enunciation of that peculiar double bind is the primary distinguishing mark of WoWtard-ery.

I understand fully what you mean by this, I really do.

My argument is that the terms ‘wowtard’ is mostly used by people defending their own game (in this case GW2) against anyone who critises it. Very often without anything in the critised post actually doing what you describe as a Wowtards behaviour.

And I’m not saying you do that…

If someone writes a post about him wanting to grind without the DR system,another pops up saying he’s a wowtard simply because grinding is a big (unavoidable) deal in WoW.
But that has nothing to do with the one writing the post about wanting to grind in GW2…

That is why I am going against the term, simply because it’s misused more as an random insult than it is against actual wowtards revealing themselves

Well, I appreciate and can understand most of what you say, even if I don’t agree with you either. I’ll defend your right to say this to the death!

That’s the problems with opinions, they’re like kitten holes, everyone has one!

Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick then about GW2. Either way I don’t like it.

I’m no fly-by-night Chicken Little, I’m loyal to a game if I enjoy it. I played one title exclusively for 7 years.

You’re basically inferring that most of the problem lies with me and not the game and that GW as a title has been this way since time immemorial and shouldn’t have to change. Rubbish. It’s not me. It’s the game. It should have to change. It’s reluctance to change will be its downfall.

For all the shiny shiny advertising and fanfare, it has little substance, little to make you want to come back and it definitely won’t make me a convert in its current incarnation.

I don’t want the game to be more like anything else. I’m not even slightly suggesting that. I want it to stop being punitive to me. You say it’s not a punishment. That’s not your decision to make on my behalf.

I am caught, as a player, in a crossfire between the devs and the bots. The DR isn’t affecting bots, they’ve moved, they’re doing other things. I’ve been playing the game and I’ll argue the devs haven’t been monitoring it. Not to any extent.

I don’t want to have the measures they roll out against bots ruin the game for me.

GW2 isn’t what it advertises itself as and it’s quite a large disappointment.

A week 1-80 XP curve? That’s even with moderate play time. Really!? That’s not sustainable.

Let alone all the other glaring other problems.

It’s a mess. That’s genuinely my opinion.

And having played WoW from vanilla till last week (when i picked up GW2 instead…) I can assure you I’ve seen my share of Wowtards they’re very prominent in WoW’s trade channel, bashing other games they ‘tried’. Believe me

I just checked the servers (by choosing “world selection” at character select, if you want to try some real data instead of dooming n glooming):

NA Mostly Full and heavy with 3 medium
EU Some Full, mostly High and some medium

Yep, everyone has left

i proposed permanent costumes , instead of consumable. i played cabal online 5 years and bought 15-20 weapon and character(armor) sets. at 4-30 euros ea,its alot of money. i wont buy primeval for my wa each time ill change set! but arenanet doesnt seems to care about players,they are so happy they make this game different from other games! ok,i wont gave them any other money

@muthax Server capacity is based on the number of accounts on the server, not on the number of people playing on that server at a given time. When a server is full, you can’t choose that server anymore. It’s not like you can choose the server, then you have to wait in some queue like in WoW.

muthax.4720:

I just checked the servers (by choosing “world selection” at character select, if you want to try some real data instead of dooming n glooming):

NA Mostly Full and heavy with 3 medium
EU Some Full, mostly High and some medium

Yep, everyone has left

I said people start leaving around the 30 day mark and leave by the masses @90day mark. Favorite this thread and check the population in 60 days and then do a comparison.

UndeadRufus.6832:

Apos.5184:

Actually, D3 is the perfect example of the fate a game has when the developers decide to invoke how its playerbase should play the game.

Actually, D3 is a perfect example of what happens when a classic ARPG franchise turns into an online-only cash shop.

Not only was the drop rates crap on their own, but the developers decided that they wanted their playerbase to kill the rare/elite packs instead of bosses in order to get decent loot. Packs that had random affixes and were insanely hard,oftenly one shotting people.

True, ’twas garbage.

Then the playerbase abandoned the game. A lot of the playerbase. And they never returned, even when they reduced the difficulty of these packs.

See the pattern? Some mistakes are better fixed back, otherwise they are not reversed easily, if at all.

No, I really don’t. You said that “D3 is the perfect example,” but then went off about something else.

Then you refuse to see the patern, it’s not that you don’t understand it. You just refuse to accept it.

The fundamental flaw is the same,the details are not. In the end of the day it’s about how a bunch of developers tried to force the players their way of how a game should be played and then the players reacted and abandoned them.

You know what your problem is? You think that we bash GW2 just for the sake of bashing it and that you feel the urge to defend it, which is wrong. No, we just don’t want to see the above example happen again, doesn’t matter whether it’s different genres or not.

Gauradan.8361:

@muthax Server capacity is based on the number of accounts on the server, not on the number of people playing on that server at a given time. When a server is full, you can’t choose that server anymore. It’s not like you can choose the server, then you have to wait in some queue like in WoW.

Then why do “full” servers go down to “high” early in the morning, then back to “full?” Are you saying that thousands of people cancel their accounts every day, then thousands more replace them with brand new accounts?

At $60 a box that kind of turnover is tremendous… Arenanet must have pulled in over $1 billion gross by now…

But seriously, they did this in the beginning to keep certain servers from being overcrowded and others underpopulated, but they seem to have gone back to a more traditional method of controlling populations.

If I understand the situationn correctly, several Skill Points in the game are not resetting correctly, and people have been transferring to other servers where (hopefully) the SP reset and they can activate it, then transfer back later. They can do this even when the original server is “full” because the pop eventually drops to the point where they can transfer back.

Ronin.8095:

I’m no fly-by-night Chicken Little
…
You’re basically inferring that most of the problem lies with me and not the game and that GW as a title has been this way since time immemorial and shouldn’t have to change.

I’m not inferring anything. Your own words tell me you bought GW2 expecting one thing, when all of ArenaNet’s marketing since announcement day should have told you something else. I think you kinda are a Chicken Little in this case, making a lot of speculative claims that are seemingly rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of the game you purchased. Farming isn’t part of ArenaNet’s paradigm. You can farm if you want to, but they aren’t going to reward you for it. If enough players hue and cry, maybe they will change their stance. As of yet, I have not seen the desolate servers that you people keep citing as evidence of this alleged mass rebellion.

Apos

Then you refuse to see the patern, it’s not that you don’t understand it. You just refuse to accept it.

Wow, what an unassailable argument. Just paint your opponent as a closed-minded brick. QED.

it’s about how a bunch of developers tried to force the players their way of how a game should be played

You seem to be of the opinion that the game is effectively an on-rails shooter because it doesn’t make farming profitable. I truly don’t understand that type of thinking.

and then the players reacted and abandoned them.

If ArenaNet sees evidence of this happening, I suspect they will react accordingly.

You know what your problem is?

I have a few, but something tells me you’re about to propose one I’m not familiar with.

You think that we bash GW2 just for the sake of bashing it

Wrong. I think you’re genuinely frustrated. I just also think most of you are being Chicken Littles about it, which is neither beneficial to the community nor conducive toward helping ArenaNet solve the problem.

and that you feel the urge to defend it, which is wrong.

I have defended ArenaNet in the sense that “we’re only a month in, they’re juggling a lot of pins, give them some time.” I don’t think I’ve defended the DR itself even once, because I don’t really agree with it.

No, we just don’t want to see the above example happen again, doesn’t matter whether it’s different genres or not.

That’s fine, and there’s something to be said for that. However, there’s a difference between coming on the forum with a sensible argument as to why something should or should not be, and the arm-flapping hysteria that pervades many of the posts here.

tolunart.2095:

Gauradan.8361:

@muthax Server capacity is based on the number of accounts on the server, not on the number of people playing on that server at a given time. When a server is full, you can’t choose that server anymore. It’s not like you can choose the server, then you have to wait in some queue like in WoW.

Then why do “full” servers go down to “high” early in the morning, then back to “full?” Are you saying that thousands of people cancel their accounts every day, then thousands more replace them with brand new accounts?

At $60 a box that kind of turnover is tremendous… Arenanet must have pulled in over $1 billion gross by now…

But seriously, they did this in the beginning to keep certain servers from being overcrowded and others underpopulated, but they seem to have gone back to a more traditional method of controlling populations.

If I understand the situationn correctly, several Skill Points in the game are not resetting correctly, and people have been transferring to other servers where (hopefully) the SP reset and they can activate it, then transfer back later. They can do this even when the original server is “full” because the pop eventually drops to the point where they can transfer back.

People are transferring to different servers everyday.
We do not know the population cap but when you know a large portion of your player base at level 80 is at penitent and shelter camp, there is obviously something wrong.

i agree with OP why? because i actually farm materials to craft with…guess what i cant do anymore? grind materials to craft with… which means i have to buy it off market and i’m a cheap kitten refuses to spend my cash on those over priced goods.

lagrangeify.5641:

Apos.5184:

lagrangeify.5641:

“Trust me on this once the damage has been done and a player quits 99% of the time they are not coming back!”

Oh I don’t know, WoW’s chock full of resolute quitters, I’ve met plenty of them.

Seriously though, why does it matter to you that people out there don’t agree with your sentiment that the mechanic is horrible? I’ve always been curious about that, it’s a very odd way of looking at things. So they don’t care about it as much as you do. Why pull out that old, tattered, terribly tired pejorative “fan boy”?

Oh yeah, tribalism.

Your question goes both ways: Why do you defend a mechanism that doesn’t affect you in any way?

If you enjoy doing various things and the diminishing returns do not affect you, then what is your problem against someone who actually wants to do that? And why do you have to go as far as assuming they are wow fanboys as well and calling them “wowtards”?

Oh yea, elitism…

We don’t dictate your play, why do you feel the urge of dictating ours?

Nope, not guilty as charged, I’m probably a lowest common denominator gamer, someone who just gets on with it, and if I dislike something enough I just move on.

What gets on my wick is every single counter-argument on both sides of an argument being reduced to name calling. But that’s MMO forums for you, why have a debate when you can just pull at the hair of your opponent instead?

Maybe it’s just my age and a little wisdom that’s gathered on this old rolling stone, but I realised a while ago that when MMOs are run like a democracy it becomes an exercise in polishing a kitten I choose instead to work with what I’m given. Some things are worth having a debate about, ANet’s decision to employ DR in an effort to combat bots that literally sit in a single area for hours on end seems reasonable to me, especially considering that it’s so easy for a non-bot like me to entirely circumvent with some good old fashioned circulating around the maps.

Far be it for me to suggest some of you try a different approach when you’d evidently prefer to keep chucking fuel on the fire and cause a conflagration. Carry on.

Maybe its just me but my opinion is that some if not many of those who are complaining that DR is ruining their game. I think they are the botter them self and its effecting their ability to bot.

kittenido.8436:

Maybe its just me but my opinion is that some if not many of those who are complaining that DR is ruining their game. I think they are the botter them self and its effecting their ability to bot.

This made me giggle. But if that is your opinion, have at it bud. Never heard of a case of actual bot operators jumping on a game forum to defend their ability to use bots. I dont think I could possibly comment beyond that without getting an infraction for it.

Well, maybe not botters, but I think it’s fairly inarguable that a substantial portion of the people complaining about DR “ruining their game” are farmers of one item or another.

I consider myself as a minority speaker. I think I have made about 5-10 posts on these forums. As someone who wants to gather the materials to craft their own lvl 80 exotic gear this mechanic is crippling.

I was so looking forward to this game. I have told people this game will be awesome and caters to players. The DR mechanic cats in the face of that statement. (cat>kittens)

I have stopped playing. I will not play this game until this kitten mechanic is removed. No if’s or but’s, I will NOT play until I can play how I want. Simple.

ArenaNet, do you really want to know why Guild Wars 2 became popular? Because of /v and /b! That’s right, 4Chan, and then word of mouth spread from there over on to game forums, how PvP wasn’t a gear grind like WoW and for fun, and actually needing skill to do stuff no matter what level you are or where you are. Then, you slap on this DR system and anons everywhere are disappointed.

@joe

DR does not affect botters at all. It forces them to create more accounts to get around the DR.

It affects us only. Which makese no sense at all.

Why run the risk of annoying your player base? The annoyance is two-fold as it encourages bot growth, does nothing to curb their activities, pushes them into other areas of the game like DEs and all of these things really do have an impact on the game.

If they’d never even addressed the problem of bots and just left the game alone, they’d have less of a hole to dig themselves out of than they do now.

There’s no way a blanket policy that affects all players in all instances across all servers is ever going to work as intended. It will amost definitely have unintended and nasty side-effects, which is exactly what we’re seeing now.

You want to deal with bots, you pay for the staff, you check them on enough reports in-game and in real time and you ban them on the spot if they exhibit the properties of a bot to someone who is employed by ANet.

It’s not a fantasy scenario, it’s a real one the other dev teams have used to great effect. The only problem is it costs money. Ah yes, money. We don’t want to spend of that now, do we ANet?

Anyway, here’s some more proof of the DR hurting non-farmers…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-post-that-you-must-read-before-you-complain/first#post298258

“All DR does is hurt the legimate players. I entered a personal story, the cave complex was like 50% grubs. I killed 1 of them and got the red lettered message to come back later. At first I thought my account was being hacked, or that I was glitched. So I went from scared to irritated. Thought I wouldn’t get credit completing the instance. Then i realized that i was not getting any XP as well as loot… 50% XP and loot from an instance…gone???? Not fair to legimate players. Not cool at all.”

There’s lots of more cases like this if you’d do some research and look at other forums. Like the bug forum right here. You want more examples, I have more, don’t make me quote them and make even longer posts than necessary!

So no, it’s not an inarguable point joe. It’s a very arguable point that it affects the innocent, non-farmer just trying to go about his normal GW2 business.

You want more proof, have a look at other places in the forum it’s on just General that exists.

Do your research. It will help you more in coming to a resonable conclusion about what the “substantial people complaining about DR” are actually complaining about.

It seems to me you haven’t even bothered to see what they are complaining about at all and then seem to want to force over some inarguable point.

Have a read first. You might see things differently.

EDIT: Heathenite right below you has said the mechanic is crippling his attempts to gather the mats for his exotic. So there’s another example right there for you. Oh no that’s FARMING. Sorry, naughty! You’re a naughty naughty Heathenite for wanting to upgrade your gear.

When in the kitten did “farm” become such a dirty word? It isn’t and never has been. It’s just the process of collecting resources from the world, hence the word “farm”. Farm has no direct implication of nefarious actions and never will.

Heathenite.4185:

No if’s or but’s, I will NOT play until I can play how I want. Simple.

You are playing a game made by their philosophy and game design, don’t like it, then indeed don’t play. It amazes me to see alot of these self-entitled mmo gamers who feel the need to dictate game designers to change a game that revolves solely around their own needs.

Their philosophy is different, the game design might not be for you, move on perhabs? Just as with many things in life, things are not always what you want them to be. But just stop with the “i want” nonsense, the world doesn’t spin around you.

joe.7684:

Well, maybe not botters, but I think it’s fairly inarguable that a substantial portion of the people complaining about DR “ruining their game” are farmers of one item or another.

Of course they are! I want to craft my self an exotic piece of armour. For this I need 5 Lizard Bumholes. Lizard Bumholess are rare, in 30 mins of killing lizards I might get 1 lizard bumhole. Add in the DR and that means I cannot legitamately get my lizard bumhole armour without jumping through rediculous hoops that should not be there in the first place.

Bot killin 101: Hire 3 people on minimum wage to look at player reports of botting over every server. BKer (bot killer) recieves report. watches player for 5 mins. messages them with a random question, such as " hey there, I’m from arenanet, I think you are a bot. If you are not a bot answer this question: what colour is the sun"

change the question every day. Is fire hot (yes/no) what is 6+2 (8) what does GW stand for (really is this needed)

You could do this with 1 person. If the player fails to respond at all, it’s a bot. ban it.

kittenido.8436:

Maybe its just me but my opinion is that some if not many of those who are complaining that DR is ruining their game. I think they are the botter them self and its effecting their ability to bot.

It’s just you.

You haven’t done any reading about the subject even on these very forums and it shows in what you just said.

Just because the DR is not affecting you doesn’t mean it’s not affecting other people in game-breaking ways. If you’d bother to read and learn about it, you’d already know this.

But no, don’t bother to do that….

Just say whatever rubbish is in your head if you think it makes sense.

We don’t want to be a bot and the DR isn’t even affecting bots right now. ANet are making this game a haven for bots!

If you can’t see this you’re sadly deluded.