Guild Wars 2

GW2 has the most fanatic item and progression hater I’ve ever seen in any MMORPG.

Someone dare to criticise the lack of rewards for certain activities in GW2, seconds later one of these fanatics chime in and instruct you how you play GW2 the right way – just for the fun.

It´s not that I partly understand this people, they don’t want the next raid item progression grinder but come on, this is getting aggravating.

Of course you should play a game because it’s fun for you but nearly everyone loves to get better items, it’s natural for humans and part of the fun, we like to get rewarded for what we do, even it’s a game.

I don’t need you to lecture me how I have to enjoy this game or how I´m wrong if I expect some reward I can use for whatever I do in this game.

If you want a reward and that’s your primary driving factor to doing something, only participate in activities that reward you with something at your desired level.

If you’re in this game for loot and that’s all you care about, doing a jumping puzzle isn’t a good idea.

The best way to describe it is to use Mass Effect analogy. It is fun to go through all of it’s content, but in the end you’re left disappointed because there is something important missing. That’s all.

what about the people who enjoyed Mass Effect, endings included?

if this game doesn’t meet your personal tastes in games then you don’t have to play it. I don’t see how this is a hard concept to grasp. You’re not paying a monthly fee, you can always play when you’re not bored of it/they introduce some changes you find interesting.

Colin Johanson

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

That was posted on June 19th, just over two months before the game’s release. If you bought this game thinking that post-80 was going to be an endless cycle of getting better items, you bought the wrong game.

zydal.2790:

If you want a reward and that’s your primary driving factor to doing something, only participate in activities that reward you with something at your desired level.

If you’re in this game for loot and that’s all you care about, doing a jumping puzzle isn’t a good idea.

Hey, I actually like doing the jumping puzzles. They are the hardest PvE content in this game.

Dungeons are not fun. DE’s are not fun. Their rewards are also poorly designed. The reward system could easily be tweaked, yet they chose to butcher it. Baffling.

If you don’t find the gameplay fun without rewards, don’t play. People play other genres of video games for the fun regardless of whether they are rewarded. Why people take the workplace mentality towards MMOs is frankly beyond me. I have one workplace and it pays real money, and I don’t take that approach to my gaming.

Stop calling it progression.
The real term is “time barricade”.

“raid progression” does not grow your character, all it does it barricade you from content.
Thanks.

knightblaster.8027:

If you don’t find the gameplay fun without rewards, don’t play. People play other genres of video games for the fun regardless of whether they are rewarded. Why people take the workplace mentality towards MMOs is frankly beyond me. I have one workplace and it pays real money, and I don’t take that approach to my gaming.

You can’t honestly be so naive as to think that the reward should be completely divorced from the fun-factor. If that were the case, why level up? Why have gear differentiation at all? Why isn’t the game just random content for you to do?

On that note, the current dungeon content is quite frankly so poorly designed, I have absolutely no desire to repeat any explorable paths. They just aren’t fun at all. No, it’s not due to difficulty either. I have not died more than a couple of times in any dungeon and I have yet to fail one.

People farmed CoF because it was the path of least resistance. Sure you can nerf that particular path into the ground, but there’s something very fundamental that Anet was missing the entire time. Making CoF less attractive didn’t make the other dungeons more attractive. They’re still the same terrible dungeons. The diffrence now is I just don’t feel like running any dungeon at all.

Untouch.2541:

Stop calling it progression.
The real term is “time barricade”.

“raid progression” does not grow your character, all it does it barricade you from content.
Thanks.

Exactly. Anet said the same thing a while ago as well, and -what a shock- stuck to their word.

Do you “super 1337 hardcore raziderz” even know that something you insist should be changed is one of the very things that made us buy this game in the first place? You might as well be asking for eight-way run in a Street Fighter game.

DusK.3849:

Colin Johanson

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

That was posted on June 19th, just over two months before the game’s release. If you bought this game thinking that post-80 was going to be an endless cycle of getting better items, you bought the wrong game.

And yet that is exactly what it is, only in the least fun form possible.

ZannX.4058:

knightblaster.8027:

If you don’t find the gameplay fun without rewards, don’t play. People play other genres of video games for the fun regardless of whether they are rewarded. Why people take the workplace mentality towards MMOs is frankly beyond me. I have one workplace and it pays real money, and I don’t take that approach to my gaming.

You can’t honestly be so naive as to think that the reward should be completely divorced from the fun-factor. If that were the case, why level up? Why have gear differentiation at all? Why isn’t the game just random content for you to do?

It basically is that. The levels in the game could very easily have been removed, or kept at a low cap like GW1 was. The idea is to play all of the content, which is why there is a downlevel system in the game. Rewards have never motivated me in MMOs — I don’t understand the mindset. I don’t feel “unrewarded” when playing other games if the content doesn’t spit out a reward at me.

Birdy

And yet that is exactly what it is, only in the least fun form possible.

Please give me one example of max-level content that you’re unable to do unless you run other max-level content to gear for it.

And if this game is so awful at its core, why are you still here? ArenaNet isn’t going to change ideas this game was founded on three years ago just to appease the people who are addicted to the crap this game was meant to break away from.

DusK.3849:

Birdy

And yet that is exactly what it is, only in the least fun form possible.

Please give me one example of max-level content that you’re unable to do unless you run other max-level content to gear for it.

And if this game is so awful at its core, why are you still here? ArenaNet isn’t going to change ideas this game was founded on three years ago just to appease the people who are addicted to the crap this game was meant to break away from.

Why is gearing for further content bad?

I waste 100s hours on this grinding exotic gear for hard dungeons. then if i want to switch roll I do it all again, only in a boring form.

Birdy

Why is gearing for further content bad?

Colin Johanson

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

Untouch

Stop calling it progression.
The real term is “time barricade”.

“raid progression” does not grow your character, all it does it barricade you from content.
Thanks.

Thats not what i asked. since you know there is ALOT of 5 man progression in Wow prior to that point.

Ok so there is a reward system in place, there are items, an economy, everything already in GW2. Anet put it there. So what is the basis for the argument that player’s who want to receive a reward for running content are somehow doing it wrong? That makes no sense. From the first event in your character’s story you get rewards for completing content. At the end, you get items, exp, karma, and coin. Every event, everything gives a reward, so at what point are all the player’s who have bought into this system that Anet put into place suddenly wrong for expecting it to continue? I truly don’t find any logic in the argument against this. If from jump street logging in there were no rewards, loot, exp anything I would totally understand, but it seems completely insane to argue that player’s shouldn’t expect a reward when that is exactly the expectation that Anet has established from the beginning. Given this, I certainly don’t think it is outlandish for player’s to expect the trend to continue, and for the rewards to be commensurate with the task. In lower level zones you get lower xp than you would in higher level zones, even if you are over level. So the player’s didn’t magically manifest this expectation from having played other MMO’s, it was established right here in this one. So the argument that they are wrong for having the expectation is complete…kitten kitten kitten.

Birdy.4816:

Thats not what i asked. since you know there is ALOT of 5 man progression in Wow prior to that point.

What part of “it locks players out of content” do you not understand?

My reward is the sparkly sound effects and twinkly gold bars on my screen that occur after every step I take in the world. I wish I had something like that at work.

Sometimes I even get a bouncing chest and it lets me look at a picture of a heap of gold!

All that stupid Karma and gold and stuff is just an extra bonus.

DusK.3849:

Colin Johanson

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

That was posted on June 19th, just over two months before the game’s release. If you bought this game thinking that post-80 was going to be an endless cycle of getting better items, you bought the wrong game.

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

Oh, telling people they bought the wrong game or go back to xyz is eventually going to lead to some very empty servers.

No one wants to play a game where all they hear is ‘go away’…

Azzras

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

And that I see no problem with; hell, that’s already in the game.

It’s these people coming into this forum saying that the game should have “progression gearing” post-80 to get to certain content so you can do even more “progression gearing” to access certain content that just aren’t getting it. ANet said it wouldn’t be in the game. Those of us who were following what ANet was saying and looking forward to this game for the many reasons, one of which being that there’s no pointless carrot-chasing to get to otherwise accessible content after max level, would rather see than unchanged simply because a bunch of people decided not to read anything about this game and then bought it thinking that certain stuff would be in it.

If they want that, they can go get that somewhere else; we bought the game because we think that progression raiding crap is hardcore boring.

Dusk, that’s probably because this game, yes GW2, has conditioned them while leveling to expect better gear for their efforts.

I doubt that I’ll stick around to much after level capping a few alts if some type of guild oriented PvE isn’t implemented…ie raiding

In the mean time, loving the game thus far.

Edit:
And if ANet did implement raiding with gear progression, no one is forcing you to do it. See what I did there?

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

Thats not what i asked. since you know there is ALOT of 5 man progression in Wow prior to that point.

What part of “it locks players out of content” do you not understand?

So what if it does? Guild Wars doesn’t have to follow the “timer” part of raiding, nobody every said it did, why are you even brining it up?

Oh right, its the only thing you can legit complain about on WoW. everything else is farmable.

DusK.3849:

Azzras

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

And that I see no problem with; hell, that’s already in the game.

It’s these people coming into this forum saying that the game should have “progression gearing” post-80 to get to certain content so you can do even more “progression gearing” to access certain content that just aren’t getting it. ANet said it wouldn’t be in the game. Those of us who were following what ANet was saying and looking forward to this game for the many reasons, one of which being that there’s no pointless carrot-chasing to get to otherwise accessible content after max level, would rather see than unchanged simply because a bunch of people decided not to read anything about this game and then bought it thinking that certain stuff would be in it.

If they want that, they can go get that somewhere else; we bought the game because we think that progression raiding crap is hardcore boring.

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

GW1 was never about power progression, and this is, oh, GW2.

There is a ton of aestethic and prestige progression, which is the only thing that makes sense.

Birdy.4816:

DusK.3849:

Azzras

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

And that I see no problem with; hell, that’s already in the game.

It’s these people coming into this forum saying that the game should have “progression gearing” post-80 to get to certain content so you can do even more “progression gearing” to access certain content that just aren’t getting it. ANet said it wouldn’t be in the game. Those of us who were following what ANet was saying and looking forward to this game for the many reasons, one of which being that there’s no pointless carrot-chasing to get to otherwise accessible content after max level, would rather see than unchanged simply because a bunch of people decided not to read anything about this game and then bought it thinking that certain stuff would be in it.

If they want that, they can go get that somewhere else; we bought the game because we think that progression raiding crap is hardcore boring.

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

Because a raiding system requires you to have certain gear progression before even seeing the content. The gear progression grind is required in order to see content — the content is locked behind that grinding gate. That’s a totally different story from optional grinding for item skins.

DusK.3849:

Azzras

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

And that I see no problem with; hell, that’s already in the game.

It’s these people coming into this forum saying that the game should have “progression gearing” post-80 to get to certain content so you can do even more “progression gearing” to access certain content that just aren’t getting it. ANet said it wouldn’t be in the game. Those of us who were following what ANet was saying and looking forward to this game for the many reasons, one of which being that there’s no pointless carrot-chasing to get to otherwise accessible content after max level, would rather see than unchanged simply because a bunch of people decided not to read anything about this game and then bought it thinking that certain stuff would be in it.

If they want that, they can go get that somewhere else; we bought the game because we think that progression raiding crap is hardcore boring.

I hope for you that “we” is enough to sustain this game after most people got to 80 and wonder what they should do because they don’t like to grind hundreds of hours for item skins or do jumping puzzles for the lulz or dps-race pointless dynamic events.

Besides, in my original post i never wrote I´m pro raiding. In fact I didn’t raid in any game I’ve played (and I played a lot over the years). But I think every MMO need a form of item or character progression (progression does not necessarily mean raiding) and this game has none…

knightblaster.8027:

Birdy.4816:

DusK.3849:

Azzras

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

And that I see no problem with; hell, that’s already in the game.

It’s these people coming into this forum saying that the game should have “progression gearing” post-80 to get to certain content so you can do even more “progression gearing” to access certain content that just aren’t getting it. ANet said it wouldn’t be in the game. Those of us who were following what ANet was saying and looking forward to this game for the many reasons, one of which being that there’s no pointless carrot-chasing to get to otherwise accessible content after max level, would rather see than unchanged simply because a bunch of people decided not to read anything about this game and then bought it thinking that certain stuff would be in it.

If they want that, they can go get that somewhere else; we bought the game because we think that progression raiding crap is hardcore boring.

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

Because a raiding system requires you to have certain gear progression before even seeing the content. The gear progression grind is required in order to see content — the content is locked behind that grinding gate. That’s a totally different story from optional grinding for item skins.

I don’t agree with you. Raiding does not have to have a stat increase gear progression to be fun, challenging, and rewarding.
The artists at ANet are pretty darn good. I’m sure they could put out some epic looking gear that would get raiders salivating.

Birdy.4816:

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

Uh, PvE is practically all I do in this game. So you’re wrong there. What’s to stop me taking part in progression raiding? The unnecessary grind it would require to access otherwise inaccessible content. Ya know, that thing ANet changed when they released this game because a lot of people don’t like that crap in MMO’s? That crap.

Also, no, you’re not a large audience. A “large audience” didn’t buy this game thinking it was going to be WoW 2 like you did. A lot of them saw that GW2 wasn’t going to have an end-game gear-locked content months ago, decided it was not for them, and stuck with WoW. That’s where that “large audience” is; playing WoW.

Like you should be, instead of whining on these forums trying to turn our game into that.

knightblaster.8027:

Birdy.4816:

DusK.3849:

Azzras

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

And that I see no problem with; hell, that’s already in the game.

It’s these people coming into this forum saying that the game should have “progression gearing” post-80 to get to certain content so you can do even more “progression gearing” to access certain content that just aren’t getting it. ANet said it wouldn’t be in the game. Those of us who were following what ANet was saying and looking forward to this game for the many reasons, one of which being that there’s no pointless carrot-chasing to get to otherwise accessible content after max level, would rather see than unchanged simply because a bunch of people decided not to read anything about this game and then bought it thinking that certain stuff would be in it.

If they want that, they can go get that somewhere else; we bought the game because we think that progression raiding crap is hardcore boring.

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

Because a raiding system requires you to have certain gear progression before even seeing the content. The gear progression grind is required in order to see content — the content is locked behind that grinding gate. That’s a totally different story from optional grinding for item skins.

IT can be modified. that is only WoW’s model.

All we ask is for alot more variety and challenge and reward in this game’s PvE endgame.

Guild Wars 1 allowed 8 players and this only allows 5 in all its content. we experiance large raids in the world, why not some inside aswell? they can offer more structured and interesting mechanics.

At the moment ther eis barely anything for gods sake the bosses don’t even have move variety or phases.

Its a clear sign that they had no PvE end-game ready for release, buit it IS intended.

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

Uh, PvE is practically all I do in this game. So you’re wrong there. What’s to stop me taking part in progression raiding? The unnecessary grind it would require to access otherwise inaccessible content. Ya know, that thing ANet changed when they released this game because a lot of people don’t like that crap in MMO’s? That crap.

Also, no, you’re not a large audience. A “large audience” didn’t buy this game thinking it was going to be WoW 2 like you did. A lot of them saw that GW2 wasn’t going to have an end-game gear-locked content months ago, decided it was not for them, and stuck with WoW. That’s where that “large audience” is; playing WoW.

Like you should be, instead of whining on these forums trying to turn our game into that.

So what do you do PvE wise? do tell, im sure its a fascinating read.

I do all the content you skipped racing to 80 to get to the “endgame”. I’d list it, but it’d be a very long, boring, repetitive trip along a keyboard.

Kinda like a typical WoW raid!

Azzras.8041:

knightblaster.8027:

Birdy.4816:

DusK.3849:

Azzras

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

And that I see no problem with; hell, that’s already in the game.

It’s these people coming into this forum saying that the game should have “progression gearing” post-80 to get to certain content so you can do even more “progression gearing” to access certain content that just aren’t getting it. ANet said it wouldn’t be in the game. Those of us who were following what ANet was saying and looking forward to this game for the many reasons, one of which being that there’s no pointless carrot-chasing to get to otherwise accessible content after max level, would rather see than unchanged simply because a bunch of people decided not to read anything about this game and then bought it thinking that certain stuff would be in it.

If they want that, they can go get that somewhere else; we bought the game because we think that progression raiding crap is hardcore boring.

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

Because a raiding system requires you to have certain gear progression before even seeing the content. The gear progression grind is required in order to see content — the content is locked behind that grinding gate. That’s a totally different story from optional grinding for item skins.

I don’t agree with you. Raiding does not have to have a stat increase gear progression to be fun, challenging, and rewarding.
The artists at ANet are pretty darn good. I’m sure they could put out some epic looking gear that would get raiders salivating.

The poster I was replying to was talking about “progressional content”, not raids with aesthetic rewards. I would have no issue at all with aesthetic reward raids. I doubt, however, that most raider types would happy with that: “Lol, Anet, why should I bother with organizing a raid to get a kitten skin. What kind of kitten is that?” kind of thing.

So… if an item has +5 better stats (so called progression) “grinding for hundreds of hours”
suddenly is fun Cephei? Well in my opinion it is not and your lot should go and see a doctor for your severe gaming addiction. And I don´t say that to insult you.

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

Uh, PvE is practically all I do in this game. So you’re wrong there. What’s to stop me taking part in progression raiding? The unnecessary grind it would require to access otherwise inaccessible content. Ya know, that thing ANet changed when they released this game because a lot of people don’t like that crap in MMO’s? That crap.

Also, no, you’re not a large audience. A “large audience” didn’t buy this game thinking it was going to be WoW 2 like you did. A lot of them saw that GW2 wasn’t going to have an end-game gear-locked content months ago, decided it was not for them, and stuck with WoW. That’s where that “large audience” is; playing WoW.

Like you should be, instead of whining on these forums trying to turn our game into that.

Ok Dusk, if you are against raiding the you should also be against the current 5man dungeons in the game. The dungeons promote gear progression, therefore you should be against it even though it is in game.

DusK.3849:

I do all the content you skipped racing to 80 to get to the “endgame”. I’d list it, but it’d be a very long, boring, repetitive trip along a keyboard.

Kinda like a typical WoW raid!

99% map rank 14 PvP, Done quite abit of Realm v Realm, all dungeon story modes done and a good ammount of explorables.

about 60% of jump puzzles, 400jewel 400 chef.

All standard things I can do in any mmo (besides jump puzzles… I guess.)

So please, stop lying through your teeth to try and make a point, I havn’t skipped anything.

But if you deep down really mean:

“So desperate to make out this game has heavy PvE content because of common things all mmos share and fine-tooth-combing boring zone content” then so be it. denial must be a wonderful thing.

You couldnt even answer my question.

Athaulf.1530:

So… if an item has +5 better stats (so called progression) “grinding for hundreds of hours”
suddenly is fun Cephei? Well in my opinion it is not and your lot should go and see a doctor for your severe gaming addiction. And I don´t say that to insult you.

Well, you twist my words and you have to be some sort of genius because you can diagnose gaming addiction over the internet…

Deith.7596:

The best way to describe it is to use Mass Effect analogy. It is fun to go through all of it’s content, but in the end you’re left disappointed because there is something important missing. That’s all.

If this game was meant to be nothing but a massive online version of say Mass Effect, for example, then it is pretty much nothing more than a DRM based multiplayer game.

I don’t think that is what they intended however. I think they want people to keep playing the game, but honestly just adding new DE’s and monsters every month isn’t enough.

Loot in most RPG’s is a big deal honestly. It is apparently a big deal in this game as well, but fanatics seem to be saying that it isn’t at all. Tell me, is it fair that a level 80 with full exotics and the best runes in the game gets to fight a level 10 player in WvW. Yes, they get upscaled in base stats and level, but the level 80 keeps all the stats from their gear, plus all utility and elite skills. That isn’t fair, and thus promotes the idea of power in order to compete and be efficient.

knightblaster.8027:

Azzras.8041:

knightblaster.8027:

Birdy.4816:

DusK.3849:

Azzras

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

And that I see no problem with; hell, that’s already in the game.

It’s these people coming into this forum saying that the game should have “progression gearing” post-80 to get to certain content so you can do even more “progression gearing” to access certain content that just aren’t getting it. ANet said it wouldn’t be in the game. Those of us who were following what ANet was saying and looking forward to this game for the many reasons, one of which being that there’s no pointless carrot-chasing to get to otherwise accessible content after max level, would rather see than unchanged simply because a bunch of people decided not to read anything about this game and then bought it thinking that certain stuff would be in it.

If they want that, they can go get that somewhere else; we bought the game because we think that progression raiding crap is hardcore boring.

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

Because a raiding system requires you to have certain gear progression before even seeing the content. The gear progression grind is required in order to see content — the content is locked behind that grinding gate. That’s a totally different story from optional grinding for item skins.

I don’t agree with you. Raiding does not have to have a stat increase gear progression to be fun, challenging, and rewarding.
The artists at ANet are pretty darn good. I’m sure they could put out some epic looking gear that would get raiders salivating.

The poster I was replying to was talking about “progressional content”, not raids with aesthetic rewards. I would have no issue at all with aesthetic reward raids. I doubt, however, that most raider types would happy with that: “Lol, Anet, why should I bother with organizing a raid to get a kitten skin. What kind of kitten is that?” kind of thing.

LOL, Anet, why should I bother doing all of these 5mans to get a kitten skin? (see how that can already work in the game?)

Raiders want challenge. They want to be the first to say “We downed that boss”.
Do you think the hardest core raiding guilds in the world care about the loot drops other than min/maxing…NO. They want to meet the challenge the devs throw at them and be the first to do it.

I too find it incredibly fun to play games where the numbers go up.

I tried a sports game the other day, but found that my athletes did not level up. I grinded dozens of matches, and they were still the same level. Some of the older guys even got worse. I threw it in the bin. Trash game.

Then I tried a shooter. I shot hundreds of guys, but my gun didn’t do any extra damage. I thought I should have at least a +25 gun by then, but no. Just the same gun, shooting the same guys in the same way. Mindless grinding! I threw it out the window. Horrible.

Then I tried an RPG. I grinded through the story and grinded some love interests and grinded the themes, and then it just ended. I thought there would at least be an opportunity to keep improving my character at end game, but no. I guess they don’t want my business. I demanded a refund for this junk game.

I sat down for a game of chess later that night with my cousin, and found out that no matter how many times my knights took a pawn, they never got any better. I flipped the board over. Rubbish.

If numbers are not perpetually going up, ad infinitum, I don’t even know how you can call it a GAME. Disgusting.

Azzras.8041:

The dungeons promote gear progression

No they don’t. If you’re of the level required for the dungeons and have gear at least 5 levels below your character level, you can finish the dungeon. If you’re 80, and are decked out in level-80 whites, you can definitely finish a dungeon. You don’t need to do some dungeon solely to get gear so you can do some other dungeon; once you’re at the level cap, everything’s open to you, and everything possible to complete with a skilled group.

And that’s how it should be.

Birdy.4816:

So desperate to make out this game has heavy PvE content

I’m not desperate for anything; I can prove that it has heavy PvE content. All you’d have to do is post your /age.

DusK.3849:

Azzras.8041:

The dungeons promote gear progression

No they don’t. If you’re of the level required for the dungeons and have gear at least 5 levels below your character level, you can finish the dungeon. If you’re 80, and are decked out in level-80 whites, you can definitely finish a dungeon. You don’t need to do some dungeon solely to get gear so you can do some other dungeon; once you’re at the level cap, everything’s open to you, and everything possible to complete with a skilled group.

And that’s how it should be.

So why have levels at all? why can’t I just go straight to orr and do what I like? oh whats that? Levels give stat and progression? oh whats this? its one of the fun things found in pretty much every RPG on the planet?

Azzras.8041:

knightblaster.8027:

Azzras.8041:

knightblaster.8027:

Birdy.4816:

DusK.3849:

Azzras

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

And that I see no problem with; hell, that’s already in the game.

It’s these people coming into this forum saying that the game should have “progression gearing” post-80 to get to certain content so you can do even more “progression gearing” to access certain content that just aren’t getting it. ANet said it wouldn’t be in the game. Those of us who were following what ANet was saying and looking forward to this game for the many reasons, one of which being that there’s no pointless carrot-chasing to get to otherwise accessible content after max level, would rather see than unchanged simply because a bunch of people decided not to read anything about this game and then bought it thinking that certain stuff would be in it.

If they want that, they can go get that somewhere else; we bought the game because we think that progression raiding crap is hardcore boring.

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

Because a raiding system requires you to have certain gear progression before even seeing the content. The gear progression grind is required in order to see content — the content is locked behind that grinding gate. That’s a totally different story from optional grinding for item skins.

I don’t agree with you. Raiding does not have to have a stat increase gear progression to be fun, challenging, and rewarding.
The artists at ANet are pretty darn good. I’m sure they could put out some epic looking gear that would get raiders salivating.

The poster I was replying to was talking about “progressional content”, not raids with aesthetic rewards. I would have no issue at all with aesthetic reward raids. I doubt, however, that most raider types would happy with that: “Lol, Anet, why should I bother with organizing a raid to get a kitten skin. What kind of kitten is that?” kind of thing.

LOL, Anet, why should I bother doing all of these 5mans to get a kitten skin? (see how that can already work in the game?)

Raiders want challenge. They want to be the first to say “We downed that boss”.
Do you think the hardest core raiding guilds in the world care about the loot drops other than min/maxing…NO. They want to meet the challenge the devs throw at them and be the first to do it.

Lol, I have had this argument before with the so-called “raider community”. Almost all of them (no, I’m not talking about Paradigm or EJ, but your average Joe Raider donk) say repeatedly that raiding should have the best rewards (meaning stat gear) because it is the most challenging content, and that setting it up any other way would just mean people would do the other/easier content to get the same rewards as raiding gives, stat-wise, and not bother with the increased coordination, organization and difficulty that raiding presents. I’ve never once heard an actual Joe Raider normal player admit that he would be satisfied if 5-mans or crafting provided gear with the same stats as raiding did. Not. Even. Once.

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

So desperate to make out this game has heavy PvE content

I’m not desperate for anything; I can prove that it has heavy PvE content. All you’d have to do is post your /age.

was 80 with most of my above stats at 86 hours. now 140 because of token grind that. amazing truly.

DusK.3849:

Azzras.8041:

The dungeons promote gear progression

No they don’t. If you’re of the level required for the dungeons and have gear at least 5 levels below your character level, you can finish the dungeon. If you’re 80, and are decked out in level-80 whites, you can definitely finish a dungeon. You don’t need to do some dungeon solely to get gear so you can do some other dungeon; once you’re at the level cap, everything’s open to you, and everything possible to complete with a skilled group.

And that’s how it should be.

Wait, so you’re saying that I have to progress my gear to complete these dungeons?
And the reward for completing enough of these dungeons is….wait for it…gear?

Birdy.4816:

So why have levels at all?

Because having an RPG that rested solely on its gameplay would be too much of a shock for you kitten graspers.

Leveling in the game was a side-effect of playing. That’s the way they intended it, and (I can’t believe I’m saying this again) you’d know this if you had read anything ANet has been saying about the game for the past three years. It’s cool and all, but power plateau means power plateau, and that’s something we knew would be in the game around the time they gave us the elementalist reveal.

Deal with it, or go back to your gear treadmill. I honestly don’t care which, because they’re not going to turn a 180 on their entire philosophy on this game just to please a few whiners.

knightblaster.8027:

Azzras.8041:

knightblaster.8027:

Azzras.8041:

knightblaster.8027:

Birdy.4816:

DusK.3849:

Azzras

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

And that I see no problem with; hell, that’s already in the game.

It’s these people coming into this forum saying that the game should have “progression gearing” post-80 to get to certain content so you can do even more “progression gearing” to access certain content that just aren’t getting it. ANet said it wouldn’t be in the game. Those of us who were following what ANet was saying and looking forward to this game for the many reasons, one of which being that there’s no pointless carrot-chasing to get to otherwise accessible content after max level, would rather see than unchanged simply because a bunch of people decided not to read anything about this game and then bought it thinking that certain stuff would be in it.

If they want that, they can go get that somewhere else; we bought the game because we think that progression raiding crap is hardcore boring.

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

Because a raiding system requires you to have certain gear progression before even seeing the content. The gear progression grind is required in order to see content — the content is locked behind that grinding gate. That’s a totally different story from optional grinding for item skins.

I don’t agree with you. Raiding does not have to have a stat increase gear progression to be fun, challenging, and rewarding.
The artists at ANet are pretty darn good. I’m sure they could put out some epic looking gear that would get raiders salivating.

The poster I was replying to was talking about “progressional content”, not raids with aesthetic rewards. I would have no issue at all with aesthetic reward raids. I doubt, however, that most raider types would happy with that: “Lol, Anet, why should I bother with organizing a raid to get a kitten skin. What kind of kitten is that?” kind of thing.

LOL, Anet, why should I bother doing all of these 5mans to get a kitten skin? (see how that can already work in the game?)

Raiders want challenge. They want to be the first to say “We downed that boss”.
Do you think the hardest core raiding guilds in the world care about the loot drops other than min/maxing…NO. They want to meet the challenge the devs throw at them and be the first to do it.

Lol, I have had this argument before with the so-called “raider community”. Almost all of them (no, I’m not talking about Paradigm or EJ, but your average Joe Raider donk) say repeatedly that raiding should have the best rewards (meaning stat gear) because it is the most challenging content, and that setting it up any other way would just mean people would do the other/easier content to get the same rewards as raiding gives, stat-wise, and not bother with the increased coordination, organization and difficulty that raiding presents. I’ve never once heard an actual Joe Raider normal player admit that he would be satisfied if 5-mans or crafting provided gear with the same stats as raiding did. Not. Even. Once.

So basically what you’re saying is you are against social interaction with more than 4 other players in regards to PvE?

Didn’t GW even have some form of raids?

Azzras.8041:

Wait, so you’re saying that I have to progress my gear to complete these dungeons?
And the reward for completing enough of these dungeons is….wait for it…gear?

Cosmetic gear. Prestige. It’s not gear that’s necessary to run some other dungeon so you can get gear that’s necessary to run some other dungeon.

How are you not understanding the difference? It’s a really simple concept.

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

So why have levels at all?

Because having an RPG that rested solely on its gameplay would be too much of a shock for you kitten graspers.

Leveling in the game was a side-effect of playing. That’s the way they intended it, and (I can’t believe I’m saying this again) you’d know this if you had read anything ANet has been saying about the game for the past three years. It’s cool and all, but power plateau means power plateau, and that’s something we knew would be in the game around the time they gave us the elementalist reveal.

Deal with it, or go back to your gear treadmill. I honestly don’t care which, because they’re not going to turn a 180 on their entire philosophy on this game just to please a few whiners.

Leveling is a side effect…. Ive read everything you have and seen the ridiculous apple-like marketing… and as you can see with other posts cropping up showing the flaws in their advertising.

All this gear-treadmill crap as if it is an insult. It takes less grind to gear up in 5 mans on wow (because they are actually well designed) than it does to do a few explorables on this.

You won’t realize that ofcourse because your a fanboy.