Guild Wars 2

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

So why have levels at all?

Because having an RPG that rested solely on its gameplay would be too much of a shock for you kitten graspers.

Leveling in the game was a side-effect of playing. That’s the way they intended it, and (I can’t believe I’m saying this again) you’d know this if you had read anything ANet has been saying about the game for the past three years. It’s cool and all, but power plateau means power plateau, and that’s something we knew would be in the game around the time they gave us the elementalist reveal.

Deal with it, or go back to your gear treadmill. I honestly don’t care which, because they’re not going to turn a 180 on their entire philosophy on this game just to please a few whiners.

You know Dusk, as much as I’ve been enjoying myself in GW2 it’s people like you that make me want to quit. Seriously, demeaning over a video game? You’d fit right in with the current WoW community.

Azzras.8041:

knightblaster.8027:

Azzras.8041:

knightblaster.8027:

Azzras.8041:

knightblaster.8027:

Birdy.4816:

DusK.3849:

Azzras

Better doesn’t have to mean a stat increase. It could still be aesthetics.

And that I see no problem with; hell, that’s already in the game.

It’s these people coming into this forum saying that the game should have “progression gearing” post-80 to get to certain content so you can do even more “progression gearing” to access certain content that just aren’t getting it. ANet said it wouldn’t be in the game. Those of us who were following what ANet was saying and looking forward to this game for the many reasons, one of which being that there’s no pointless carrot-chasing to get to otherwise accessible content after max level, would rather see than unchanged simply because a bunch of people decided not to read anything about this game and then bought it thinking that certain stuff would be in it.

If they want that, they can go get that somewhere else; we bought the game because we think that progression raiding crap is hardcore boring.

We get it, you don’t like PvE, instead of progressional content you just like doing a dungeon once.

Whats stopping you just not taking part in raiding? I thought it was for the fun, not competition, challenge and reward?

If you don’t like it, why do you want to deny it to such a large audiance?

You are a hypocrit to the core.

Because a raiding system requires you to have certain gear progression before even seeing the content. The gear progression grind is required in order to see content — the content is locked behind that grinding gate. That’s a totally different story from optional grinding for item skins.

I don’t agree with you. Raiding does not have to have a stat increase gear progression to be fun, challenging, and rewarding.
The artists at ANet are pretty darn good. I’m sure they could put out some epic looking gear that would get raiders salivating.

The poster I was replying to was talking about “progressional content”, not raids with aesthetic rewards. I would have no issue at all with aesthetic reward raids. I doubt, however, that most raider types would happy with that: “Lol, Anet, why should I bother with organizing a raid to get a kitten skin. What kind of kitten is that?” kind of thing.

LOL, Anet, why should I bother doing all of these 5mans to get a kitten skin? (see how that can already work in the game?)

Raiders want challenge. They want to be the first to say “We downed that boss”.
Do you think the hardest core raiding guilds in the world care about the loot drops other than min/maxing…NO. They want to meet the challenge the devs throw at them and be the first to do it.

Lol, I have had this argument before with the so-called “raider community”. Almost all of them (no, I’m not talking about Paradigm or EJ, but your average Joe Raider donk) say repeatedly that raiding should have the best rewards (meaning stat gear) because it is the most challenging content, and that setting it up any other way would just mean people would do the other/easier content to get the same rewards as raiding gives, stat-wise, and not bother with the increased coordination, organization and difficulty that raiding presents. I’ve never once heard an actual Joe Raider normal player admit that he would be satisfied if 5-mans or crafting provided gear with the same stats as raiding did. Not. Even. Once.

So basically what you’re saying is you are against social interaction with more than 4 other players in regards to PvE?

Didn’t GW even have some form of raids?

Where did I say that?

In this same thread above, I specifically said I have no issue with raiding per se, it’s stat-gear progression raiding I have an issue with, and I then noted that most raiders would similarly have an issue with raiding that is not stat-gear progressive, as they see this as one main point of raiding. Aesthetic raids are not an issue for me — stat progression raiding with gated content is a big issue for me.

Azzras.8041:

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

So why have levels at all?

Because having an RPG that rested solely on its gameplay would be too much of a shock for you kitten graspers.

Leveling in the game was a side-effect of playing. That’s the way they intended it, and (I can’t believe I’m saying this again) you’d know this if you had read anything ANet has been saying about the game for the past three years. It’s cool and all, but power plateau means power plateau, and that’s something we knew would be in the game around the time they gave us the elementalist reveal.

Deal with it, or go back to your gear treadmill. I honestly don’t care which, because they’re not going to turn a 180 on their entire philosophy on this game just to please a few whiners.

You know Dusk, as much as I’ve been enjoying myself in GW2 it’s people like you that make me want to quit. Seriously, demeaning over a video game? You’d fit right in with the current WoW community.

Not only that, why doesn’t he go tell EVERY major RPG developer out there big and small that leveling/grinding and progression is bad. and watch him and the entire communities laugh in his face.

Hes the most obsurd person I have every seen.

People love RPGs for progression, custimization and the more enthusiasts love the number crunching and tactics.

All which are very absent from this and the result is a mindless zerg fest for the lowest common denominator.

Cephei.2610:

GW2 has the most fanatic item and progression hater I’ve ever seen in any MMORPG.

Someone dare to criticise the lack of rewards for certain activities in GW2, seconds later one of these fanatics chime in and instruct you how you play GW2 the right way – just for the fun.

It´s not that I partly understand this people, they don’t want the next raid item progression grinder but come on, this is getting aggravating.

Of course you should play a game because it’s fun for you but nearly everyone loves to get better items, it’s natural for humans and part of the fun, we like to get rewarded for what we do, even it’s a game.

I don’t need you to lecture me how I have to enjoy this game or how I´m wrong if I expect some reward I can use for whatever I do in this game.

Yes, the fanboism is INSANE. They basically serve as a defensive army for ArenaNet’s inept and naive construction of an MMO.

DusK.3849:

Azzras.8041:

Wait, so you’re saying that I have to progress my gear to complete these dungeons?
And the reward for completing enough of these dungeons is….wait for it…gear?

Cosmetic gear. Prestige. It’s not gear that’s necessary to run some other dungeon so you can get gear that’s necessary to run some other dungeon.

How are you not understanding the difference? It’s a really simple concept.

Nevermind, Dusk. I’m done chatting with you.

Go on white knighting the game.

Birdy.4816:

Leveling is a side effect…. Ive read everything you have and seen the ridiculous apple-like marketing… and as you can see with other posts cropping up showing the flaws in their advertising.

All this gear-treadmill crap as if it is an insult. It takes less grind to gear up in 5 mans on wow (because they are actually well designed) than it does to do a few explorables on this.

You won’t realize that ofcourse because your a fanboy.

You never told me of any post-80 content that’s unavailable unless you run some other post-80 content to gear for it in this game, btw.

It’s because you know that it doesn’t exist, and where most of the people find that a blessing, you find that bad, because you don’t feel relevant unless you can run some dungeons solely so you can get that +10 needed for some other dungeon.

You won’t realize that, of course, because you’re a WoW zombie. Go back to that instead of chewing on our game trying to turn us into you.

I’m done. I’m clearly talking to walls, walls that I hope won’t be here on the 25th when they go back to their grear treadmills in pandaland. But I’ll leave you with a little bit of insight from one of ANet’s game designers, a quote from about two years ago:

“Too many MMOs are satisfied with basing their game content solely on ‘This is your sword. This is its pointy end. Now go stick it in things until your numbers don’t go up anymore.’” -John Stumme

I’m glad to be playing something that’s more than numbers going up. Enjoy your Excel with fantasy graphics, Birdy.

Azzras.8041:

Go on white knighting the game.

You’ve got a couple of other people vigorously black hatting the game in this thread as well. This is just attitude polarization. It’s not enough to say ‘Dungeons aren’t quite to my taste, here are some suggestions" when you can say “GW2 gave me herpes and is the worst MMO in history”. It’s not enough to say “I think the game made some good steps in providing alternatives to X” when you can say “Go back to your crap game, crapsuckers”.

And honestly, with Birdy bringing his little hategasms to every single thread on the main page, you aren’t going to get anything resembling a fair discussion, it’s just going to be name calling and poop flinging from the third post in.

For my part, I am getting ALLERGIC to MMOs with infinite progression. There are already a dozen prominent treadmills on the market. Someone brings in an elliptical and everyone is all “Nuh uh, treadmill or GTFO.” It’s exhausting.

Azzras.8041:

DusK.3849:

Azzras.8041:

Wait, so you’re saying that I have to progress my gear to complete these dungeons?
And the reward for completing enough of these dungeons is….wait for it…gear?

Cosmetic gear. Prestige. It’s not gear that’s necessary to run some other dungeon so you can get gear that’s necessary to run some other dungeon.

How are you not understanding the difference? It’s a really simple concept.

Nevermind, Dusk. I’m done chatting with you.

Go on white knighting the game.

In my initial post I was not sure if the word “fanatic” was justified. After reading Dusks posts, well, let’s say I don’t regret it

http://surlygamer.net/2012/06/05/raiding-sucks-why-guild-wars-2-doesnt-need-this-endgame/

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

Leveling is a side effect…. Ive read everything you have and seen the ridiculous apple-like marketing… and as you can see with other posts cropping up showing the flaws in their advertising.

All this gear-treadmill crap as if it is an insult. It takes less grind to gear up in 5 mans on wow (because they are actually well designed) than it does to do a few explorables on this.

You won’t realize that ofcourse because your a fanboy.

You never told me of any post-80 content that’s unavailable unless you run some other post-80 content to gear for it in this game, btw.

It’s because you know that it doesn’t exist, and where most of the people find that a blessing, you find that bad, because you don’t feel relevant unless you can run some dungeons solely so you can get that +10 needed for some other dungeon.

You won’t realize that, of course, because you’re a WoW zombie. Go back to that instead of chewing on our game trying to turn us into you.

I’m done. I’m clearly talking to walls, walls that I hope won’t be here on the 25th when they go back to their grear treadmills in pandaland. But I’ll leave you with a little bit of insight from one of ANet’s game designers, a quote from about two years ago:

“Too many MMOs are satisfied with basing their game content solely on ‘This is your sword. This is its pointy end. Now go stick it in things until your numbers don’t go up anymore.’” -John Stumme

I’m glad to be playing something that’s more than numbers going up. Enjoy your Excel with fantasy graphics, Birdy.

One last comment: IT’S NOT YOUR GAME IT’S ANET’S GAME AND WE PAID JUST AS MUCH IF NOT MORE TO PLAY IT AS YOU DID!

Ok, now I’m done.

TaskeR.7063:

http://surlygamer.net/2012/06/05/raiding-sucks-why-guild-wars-2-doesnt-need-this-endgame/

Oh whats this, a guild wars fan blog stating the obvious?

Everybody knows its designed to bring you back. but his opinion on it not being fun is HIS ALONE. the Millions that do clearly do enjoy it.

And it IS the height of PvE content for social, challenge and reward. it always has been. just some burnt out guy who will play guild wars to 80 then quit.

Azzras.8041:

One last comment: IT’S NOT YOUR GAME IT’S ANET’S GAME AND WE PAID JUST AS MUCH IF NOT MORE TO PLAY IT AS YOU DID!

Ok, now I’m done.

You did, and your feedback is valid. It does not mean, though, that I need to endorse or support it in any way.

Perhaps I love pay to win. Perhaps I want a game where I can buy the best items and all my levels right off the store just by swiping my platinum card. I bought the game too! Would you want them taking my feedback into account?

The problem with infinite progression gear-creep raid models and…what Dark or whatever his name is argues for…is that the two systems are anathema to one another. Of course you’re going to disagree.

I think most ppl saying the reward is not rewarding enough are using the wrong word.
Cuz atm ppl saying you need to play for fun dont understand that the issue issent all about the loot. It is about the a steady income of currency that is lacking in this game and the massive amounts of time and gold sinks.

My lvl 80 ranger is pretty much on hold since there is no incentive to do anything in this game cuz the income from [input activity] issent rewarding enough for the time and cost investment put in.

• i cant craft cuz there is no relible income for gold → TP
• i cant farm for crafting due to the anti farming code
• orange karma gear is around 42k per piece wtf???
• i cant run dungeons cuz they drop only blue’s and green’s and very sometimes a yellow
• i cant farm dungeon gold due to anti farming code
• i cant farm for dungeon gear due to the 13k tokens needed to get a full set
• i cant farm dungeons cuz there to time consuming for the reward given, loot as intellectual rewarding wise.
• events are also not a reliable source of income anymore due to the massive zergs
• i cant play the TP becuz every item is almost at vendor price.
• did i forget something [input here]

So if anyone knows what is FUN and dosen’t require gold or a huge amount of time
plz let me know, cuz am at a lose here.

SpectacularYak.6518:

For my part, I am getting ALLERGIC to MMOs with infinite progression. There are already a dozen prominent treadmills on the market. Someone brings in an elliptical and everyone is all “Nuh uh, treadmill or GTFO.” It’s exhausting.

I agree. The reason why it’s such a heated issue is that is a meta-debate in the MMO community — like a war, really, that is waged in the community on the battlefront of each and every MMO that is released. These “differing opinions” have been around now for years and years. GW2 is just the most recent battlefield, and since it has been designed without stat-gear progression raiding, of course that “side” in the war is going to try to raise Cain to get the developer to change the game so that it does involve what they want. It’s just another front in the war that has been going on between these groups of players for years, just another battlefront.

From my perspective, I feel good about GW2 because I know that Anet feels very strongly about its opinions and vision for the game and the MMO industry in general — to the point where many players in the opposition camp see them as arrogant, know-it-all, or whatever other derogatory terms they can come up with to describe their approach to things in terms of stat caps in particular and a studied disinterest in stat progressive raiding. So I feel comfortable that my side in this war is going to fare well on this specific front, particularly in light of the Pandas release in a week causing the Eye of Mordor to get distracted, to say the least.

I don’t get…and probably never will get, what it is that drives ppl like the OP and other users to this game.

There’s apparently very little they enjoy and what they do enjoy isn’t good enough so they want it to be what they imagine it should be.

I get some of the things some ppl wish, I don’t share those opinions…but I get them, yet being so many other games that offer them, why should a game that other ppl enjoy for what it is change everything so a minority is happy with it and stays? Which in the end will turn it into X generic MMO out in the market…it only shows that some are alergic to any sort of change in their routine.

Yes, gear progression might not be the huge transformation from Guild Wars 2 to X generic MMO…but in combination with it and stuff like mounts, 25man raids, factions and other stuff which has been mentioned several times in other threads will transform the game into something most ppl in GW2 do not want…something we did not look forward to when buying the game.

tl;dr: The game was advertised a certain way, ppl bought for it and love/hate it for it…if u don’t like the game the way it is, there’s no shame in finding something u like…but don’t go ahead trying to “ruin” it for others.

Adakhar.5386:

I get some of the things some ppl wish, I don’t share those opinions…but I get them, yet being so many other games that offer them, why should a game that other ppl enjoy for what it is change everything so a minority is happy with it and stays? Which in the end will turn it into X generic MMO out in the market…it only shows that some are alergic to any sort of change in their routine.

Because if it doesn’t change to suit their preferences it will FAIL! DOOM! BLARGELFARGLEARGLEBARG! And I have proof, because of that one time an unrelated product underperformed for unrelated reasons. Disagree? You’re a fanboy.

The end.

I do a lot of stuff for fun.
You know how you sometimes get tired of doing the same fun thing a lot?
Yeah.

Adakhar.5386:

I don’t get…and probably never will get, what it is that drives ppl like the OP and other users to this game.

There’s apparently very little they enjoy and what they do enjoy isn’t good enough so they want it to be what they imagine it should be.

I get some of the things some ppl wish, I don’t share those opinions…but I get them, yet being so many other games that offer them, why should a game that other ppl enjoy for what it is change everything so a minority is happy with it and stays? Which in the end will turn it into X generic MMO out in the market…it only shows that some are alergic to any sort of change in their routine.

Yes, gear progression might not be the huge transformation from Guild Wars 2 to X generic MMO…but in combination with it and stuff like mounts, 25man raids, factions and other stuff which has been mentioned several times in other threads will transform the game into something most ppl in GW2 do not want…something we did not look forward to when buying the game.

tl;dr: The game was advertised a certain way, ppl bought for it and love/hate it for it…if u don’t like the game the way it is, there’s no shame in finding something u like…but don’t go ahead trying to “ruin” it for others.

I can speak only for me but what do you do if you are happy with 80% of the game and unhappy with the remaining 20%?

You try to give feedback. Bad idea in this game, you are swarmed by fanboys and… well I ranted about that in my original post. The level of fanboyism in this community is extreme, it’s destroying every form of constructive feedback.

The game has very dedicated devs behind it, it has wonderful graphics and introduces some nice concepts to the MMORPG genre. But it lacks progression in any form and if you give feedback why it’s boring you are bitten by rabid fanboys.

Well, that’s why I created this thread…

Cephei.2610:

Adakhar.5386:

I don’t get…and probably never will get, what it is that drives ppl like the OP and other users to this game.

There’s apparently very little they enjoy and what they do enjoy isn’t good enough so they want it to be what they imagine it should be.

I get some of the things some ppl wish, I don’t share those opinions…but I get them, yet being so many other games that offer them, why should a game that other ppl enjoy for what it is change everything so a minority is happy with it and stays? Which in the end will turn it into X generic MMO out in the market…it only shows that some are alergic to any sort of change in their routine.

Yes, gear progression might not be the huge transformation from Guild Wars 2 to X generic MMO…but in combination with it and stuff like mounts, 25man raids, factions and other stuff which has been mentioned several times in other threads will transform the game into something most ppl in GW2 do not want…something we did not look forward to when buying the game.

tl;dr: The game was advertised a certain way, ppl bought for it and love/hate it for it…if u don’t like the game the way it is, there’s no shame in finding something u like…but don’t go ahead trying to “ruin” it for others.

I can speak only for me but what do you do if you are happy with 80% of the game and unhappy with the remaining 20%?

You try to give feedback. Bad idea in this game, you are swarmed by fanboys and… well I ranted about that in my original post. The level of fanboyism in this community is extreme, it’s destroying every form of constructive feedback.

The game has very dedicated devs behind it, it has wonderful graphics and introduces some nice concepts to the MMORPG genre. But it lacks progression in any form and if you give feedback why it’s boring you are bitten by rabid fanboys.

Well, that’s because I created this thread…

Very well, I understand what u mean, and it’s completely valid to give your feedback to try and improve the game, but u have to accept that what u consider an improvement will clash with what others consider an unwelcome change.

For example, u say it lacks progression in any form, but some might not see that as a need for the game to improve. I for example, played Guild Wars for many years, and there’s no progression beside a cosmetic one…even less so than in GW2 since u get max stats very early on. And yet me and many others considered progress, to get better looking gear to make our characters look and feel stronger…even though it didn’t improve our stats at all. U might say that’s just an illusion, but it felt like it was enough for me.

I didn’t like how in say…Aion or Swtor…u had to get better gear to be accepted in certain content “FORCING” me to do content I didn’t want to do in order to see the one I wanted.

What I’m trying to say is, the game was intended to be this way as a similarity to what the original GW had in the game and as such there is no actual gear progression, which ppl like me actually enjoy :/…it’s just a different game for ppl with different tastes.

Weeee Dances around because this is another useless thread To those against raiding and whatnot (which raiding is fine and dandy but raiding has been dead since, what EQ? Sorry, there is no raiding in the “other game” unless you consider having 10-25 idiots avoiding fire and scripted fights challenging) why argue about it? AeNet is NOT going to introduce Raids to GW2. Guild Wars 1 wasn’t about raiding and did extremely well, GW2 is everything GW1 was and more.

Adakhar.5386:

Cephei.2610:

Adakhar.5386:

I don’t get…and probably never will get, what it is that drives ppl like the OP and other users to this game.

There’s apparently very little they enjoy and what they do enjoy isn’t good enough so they want it to be what they imagine it should be.

I get some of the things some ppl wish, I don’t share those opinions…but I get them, yet being so many other games that offer them, why should a game that other ppl enjoy for what it is change everything so a minority is happy with it and stays? Which in the end will turn it into X generic MMO out in the market…it only shows that some are alergic to any sort of change in their routine.

Yes, gear progression might not be the huge transformation from Guild Wars 2 to X generic MMO…but in combination with it and stuff like mounts, 25man raids, factions and other stuff which has been mentioned several times in other threads will transform the game into something most ppl in GW2 do not want…something we did not look forward to when buying the game.

tl;dr: The game was advertised a certain way, ppl bought for it and love/hate it for it…if u don’t like the game the way it is, there’s no shame in finding something u like…but don’t go ahead trying to “ruin” it for others.

I can speak only for me but what do you do if you are happy with 80% of the game and unhappy with the remaining 20%?

You try to give feedback. Bad idea in this game, you are swarmed by fanboys and… well I ranted about that in my original post. The level of fanboyism in this community is extreme, it’s destroying every form of constructive feedback.

The game has very dedicated devs behind it, it has wonderful graphics and introduces some nice concepts to the MMORPG genre. But it lacks progression in any form and if you give feedback why it’s boring you are bitten by rabid fanboys.

Well, that’s because I created this thread…

Very well, I understand what u mean, and it’s completely valid to give your feedback to try and improve the game, but u have to accept that what u consider an improvement will clash with what others consider an unwelcome change.

Yes, I can accept that. What I can’t accept is told to leave or go back to WoW everytime someone criticises “their” game. Funny, first they tell you to leave, a few months later they whine about empty servers…

I thought I was having fun until I found out GW2 gave me herpes.

Cephei.2610:

I can speak only for me but what do you do if you are happy with 80% of the game and unhappy with the remaining 20%?

You try to give feedback. Bad idea in this game, you are swarmed by fanboys and… well I ranted about that in my original post. The level of fanboyism in this community is extreme, it’s destroying every form of constructive feedback.

The game has very dedicated devs behind it, it has wonderful graphics and introduces some nice concepts to the MMORPG genre. But it lacks progression in any form and if you give feedback why it’s boring you are bitten by rabid fanboys.

Well, that’s why I created this thread…

Cephei, I’m completely sympathetic to this, and I have a list of improvements about a mile long I think the game needs, but there’s an issue with the specific concept of perpetual item based progression. It’s not something you’re tweaking, it’s a core element of the game’s design. It’s part of the bedrock. It’s equivalent to going to WoW and telling them to remove classes and item progression. It’s going to be a contentious point.

Cephei.2610:

Adakhar.5386:

Cephei.2610:

Adakhar.5386:

I don’t get…and probably never will get, what it is that drives ppl like the OP and other users to this game.

There’s apparently very little they enjoy and what they do enjoy isn’t good enough so they want it to be what they imagine it should be.

I get some of the things some ppl wish, I don’t share those opinions…but I get them, yet being so many other games that offer them, why should a game that other ppl enjoy for what it is change everything so a minority is happy with it and stays? Which in the end will turn it into X generic MMO out in the market…it only shows that some are alergic to any sort of change in their routine.

Yes, gear progression might not be the huge transformation from Guild Wars 2 to X generic MMO…but in combination with it and stuff like mounts, 25man raids, factions and other stuff which has been mentioned several times in other threads will transform the game into something most ppl in GW2 do not want…something we did not look forward to when buying the game.

tl;dr: The game was advertised a certain way, ppl bought for it and love/hate it for it…if u don’t like the game the way it is, there’s no shame in finding something u like…but don’t go ahead trying to “ruin” it for others.

I can speak only for me but what do you do if you are happy with 80% of the game and unhappy with the remaining 20%?

You try to give feedback. Bad idea in this game, you are swarmed by fanboys and… well I ranted about that in my original post. The level of fanboyism in this community is extreme, it’s destroying every form of constructive feedback.

The game has very dedicated devs behind it, it has wonderful graphics and introduces some nice concepts to the MMORPG genre. But it lacks progression in any form and if you give feedback why it’s boring you are bitten by rabid fanboys.

Well, that’s because I created this thread…

Very well, I understand what u mean, and it’s completely valid to give your feedback to try and improve the game, but u have to accept that what u consider an improvement will clash with what others consider an unwelcome change.

Yes, I can accept that. What I can’t accept is told to leave or go back to WoW everytime someone criticises “their” game. Funny, first they tell you to leave, a few months later they whine about empty servers…

U don’t have to leave the game, but if u don’t like it u probably will. That doesn’t mean u “HAVE” to like it the way it is either. In my case I said u could find a different game as a suggestion, not an attack.

I can only recommend to see the game as what it is, and either enjoy or hate it for it. A free to play MMO to play with ur friends, socialize, explore a “magical” world and obtain pointless cosmetic gear for ur character. At the same time u can play a different game which offers a different play style that u might prefer at the time. But currently (and I hope that doesn’t change) there’s no such thing as gear progression other than a cosmetic one…in MY personal opinion…that’s just the way I like it.

Our opinions differ…but so does the game from what it is that u suggest.

No no no.

Jesus people.

“Fun” is in the eye of the beholder. Some like the grind for gear, some like the grind for looks. Some like jumping puzzles. Some like to pwn noobie zones like a demi-god. Some like… well you get the idea.

anet has an opportunity to change everything by CHANGING NOTHING here, and they won’t/can’t do it because they want to appear to be changing things more than they want to do what’s necessary: allow people to do what they enjoy.

This game has magnificent potential. The problem is that they promised a lot of things that they can’t deliver on because they’re trying to be different, rather than simply allowing the player base to do what they enjoy.

I’m no rocket psychologist, but I understand that people enjoy doing different things for their amusement, but there seems to me to be a pair of hugely important factors in games that are overlooked these days:

1) games are about fun. Fun = choices between rewarding and challenging activities, not choices between the least painful possibilities to participate in those possibilities.

2) kitten economies. If they’re broken, it’s just a game. If somebody has a bazillion gold, who cares? Ban them for exploits if you catch them, warn you players that if they’re stupid enough to buy unofficial currency that they get banned (and follow up) but otherwise, leave kitten alone. Simply make it POSSIBLE for someone to enjoy the game without other’s involvement, and let those who want to dabble in the in-game markets/economies do so. If I want to NEVER touch the auction house, I should be able to happily “finish” the game without doing so. Yes, this will cause item drop rates to be too high. Who gives a kitten? Let the auctioneers play their auction tycoon game. It’s what makes them happy, so why stand in the way?

Ok, so I haven’t thought #2 through as thoroughly as I should, and maybe not #1 either, but… just give us choices between fun options.

That’s all. Really guys. That’s all it takes. Choices between fun options.

/rant off

Like others have said, you should play a video game mainly because you ENJOY playing it, not because you want to get better gear just so you can seem “better” than everyone else. Same as leveling, you don’t try to level up just so you can reach max level as soon as possible just so you can be “better” than everyone else; you level up because you enjoy doing stuff in the game. Seriously, if you are spending so much time at a video game just to achieve higher stats on your character or virtual prestige, you need to get a life.

Deadly Toy.2630:

Like others have said, you should play a video game mainly because you ENJOY playing it, not because you want to get better gear just so you can seem “better” than everyone else. Same as leveling, you don’t try to level up just so you can reach max level as soon as possible just so you can be “better” than everyone else; you level up because you enjoy doing stuff in the game. Seriously, if you are spending so much time at a video game just to achieve higher stats on your character or virtual prestige, you need to get a life.

I enjoy getting in-game copper for my activities. Why should I have to pay out in game copper for waiting for loading screens when I hit a waypoint?

Sure, this is a slippery slope (like why should I have to pay for repairs, or upgrades etc.) but the fact remains some costs are truly optional (getting a new skin for your weapon) while others are not (taking a waypoint to join your guildies before they all log off or find someone else).

Do I need to go on?

A game with a cash shop that features the ability to exchange the currency bought with said cash for in-game currency is of course going to be designed in a way that minimizes the ease of acquiring in-game currency in the game itself. This is why the “easy” ways of getting reliable stacks of cash are being nerfed. It has to do with the gold/gem exchange rate and the gem pricing for things in the cash shop as much as it has to do with controlling inflation per se. To expect that a game with this model would be indifferent as to how quickly players can accumulate in-game currency through normal gameplay is pretty nonsensical, I think.

Except… this game- GW2- is a grind until max level, which is unnaturally high all things considered. This game feels exactly like any other grind- except it’s a grind without a reward to it.

It really feels like they’ve missed their mark, and badly.

fungihoujo.8476:

Except… this game- GW2- is a grind until max level, which is unnaturally high all things considered. This game feels exactly like any other grind- except it’s a grind without a reward to it.

It really feels like they’ve missed their mark, and badly.

There is a reward to the “grind” as u call it…it’s cosmetic gear…just because u don’t see it fitting to be called a reward for ur effort doesn’t mean that everyone else doesn’t either.

And if u know anything about Guild Wars 1 u’d know that they actually did not miss their mark…

Dungeons award tokens…which u exchange for cosmetic gear…so…there’s ur reward, can’t comment on WvW cuz I don’t PvP much…but then again, when I do, I don’t do it for rewards.

Once again…a reward is not always gear with better stats…a reward is what a person deems worthy of getting for doing a certain activity…what might not seem a reward to u, could be a reward for someone else.

I have always thought the word grind is associated with something repeatitive that you don’t enjoy. If I found anything to be a grind I simply avoid it.

That being said, there are some things in GW2 that I consider a grind and subsequently avoid. Some examples of this would be Dungeons and their token rewards, personal story quests and sPvP. These are a grind to me because I dislike token systems, I prefer RNG drops when it comes to doing something for a loot reward. Other people love
the things that I consider grind. I find things fun that others consider grind. I love
crafting, I love WvW even though they have the same token farm that dungeons do, I enjoy it because each time I go in there the experience is different (for dungeons it’s not imo).

Arenanet said from the beginning that there would be no raiding style progression, no gear progression or Holy Trinity combat in the way standard themepark MMOs implement them. They delivered on what they said they would and would not do.

Cephei.2610:

GW2 has the most fanatic item and progression hater I’ve ever seen in any MMORPG.

Someone dare to criticise the lack of rewards for certain activities in GW2, seconds later one of these fanatics chime in and instruct you how you play GW2 the right way – just for the fun.

It´s not that I partly understand this people, they don’t want the next raid item progression grinder but come on, this is getting aggravating.

Of course you should play a game because it’s fun for you but nearly everyone loves to get better items, it’s natural for humans and part of the fun, we like to get rewarded for what we do, even it’s a game.

I don’t need you to lecture me how I have to enjoy this game or how I´m wrong if I expect some reward I can use for whatever I do in this game.

/agreed

Where is the loot? Where are the random drop exotics with a unique skin that i can sell for some cash? Wheres my dead sword or ele blade. Wheres something usefull or nice looking? That doesnt require me to grind dungeons or de’s for karma till im blue in the face. Im all for elite armor you must seriously earn. But does every kitten piece of half decent looking gear need to be grinded for? I guess so.

Cik.6479:

There is a significant lack of rewards for many activities in GW2, particularly WvW and dungeons.

I liken it to most socialist society sways….socialist societies evenly distribute small amounts of entitlements to everyone, while not enabling those that output more effort for a more rewarding outcome, with, well….a better reward.

/vomit

There’s nothing socialist about GW2 and nothing socialist about your take on socialism which you clearly haven’t studied; let me fill you in. It was never meant to be a real thing. It was a experiment in “what could be if we weren’t all self-serving kittens.”

But we are. So no point in digging deeper into what was never meant to be.

Now to your “point”, which is… truly ignorant of both reality and fantasy worlds…

“more output” in these cases doesn’t actually mean more productivity. That’s something that can ONLY be measured by personal gains (duh). It means merely that basic participation in a system guarantees a survivable return.

This is how EVERY game works. At least every one that has any kind of fan base.

The reality is that basic participation (mouth breathing) has to reward at some level. True excellence must also be rewarded at a much higher level.

In every game, and every society, this happens. Guess what, even in communist countries it still happens. The distinction is that in communist countries, “excellence” has a more fluid definition.

Please. Learn something. You appear to be one of the ignorant masses that are destroying our future through ignorance. I’d rather have a socialist future operating under reality than an imagined future as you seem to see it operating under ignorant beliefs…

The facts are this game is a great experience and if you don’t rush through to lvl80. Some parts of the game a breathtaking and the combat is satisfying. Problem is when you hit that lvl80. What will you do grind Orr? Do dungeon runs for cosmetic items that seem very grindy, pay high amounts to travel around way points and look for events? play PvP with only capture the point mode available, no TDM or DM. WvW can be fun on the winning Zerg side or going around in small groups taking caravans, supply etc… just seems it all leads to not much with a flat feeling.

The typical response to a thread like this is to bring up WoW and how this game is not WoW 2..No one ever said anything about WoW, other than comparisons..

There could be raids and the bosses could be scaled depending on hidden values for the gear the party has. The gear level system is actually good, each piece has a hidden value..Add up all of the parties values and the monsters in the dungeon get scaled accordingly. That took me longer to type it than to think it.. Seriously with all these “This isn’t WoW2, go back to WoW” posts it just proves how not open-minded you are about changing the obvious problems with this game

I personally am in for any good suggestions that could make a great game even better. But it’s also good to note that I think they made a great job at spreading the challenges among all levels instead of putting generic raid system a top of max levels.

I find it interesting how people view cosmetic rewards versus stat rewards. In a generic mmo a stat reward allowed you to progress in to even harder place which would in turn reward you with even more powerful item which in turn again allowed you to enter….you get the picture of a vicious cycle.

However what ArenaNet has done here is something refreshing which might or might not work in a long run. It is quite certain that they will add extra challenges later on to keep us having fun and being busy.

The most base problem in mmo design is that player feel they have a infinite amount of challenge, no matter how much they play they never hit the top. However it’s not the case. Putting new raid places one after another is a very lazy and worn out way to keep people “happy” which ends up being work instead of having fun.

I hope this game will never fall in to that formula. I’m in for all extra challenges though