Guild Wars 2

Mjgander.1905:

Turgut.4397:

Not to mention NCsoft take in all the income from bought gems.. the money is spread out through their games. There will be an expansion, but when? NCsoft need to get their kitten in gear, and focus on their most successful MMO.. GUILD WARS.

Wildstar? Wow, player housing, that’s not been done before. Aion was a flop. Tabula Rasa lasted 2 years. How will Wildstar be any different? They need to pump all their cash into GW2 and Anet, so we start getting good, enjoyable, and lasting content.

To be honest neither of the living stories have caught my interest. Haven’t done anything for them, maybe spent 30 mins wandering around, got bored, and went back to doing my own thing..

I wouldn’t be surprised if Wildstar destroys Guild Wars 2, because let’s be honest, gw2 really isn’t a holy grail of an mmo that so many people make it out to be. As much as I like this game, and trust me, I do, it has so many problems it’s unreal.

And the living story stuff? How is this in gods name “content”?

Go fix some signs!! Deactivate mines and drag an immortal “boss” into them to kill him!
Here’s a silly gimmick of a mini game that only get’s played for the achieves and skins that you can win if you’re lucky! And the actual stuff that can be classed as “meaty content” like that flame dungeon? JK let’s remove it! I don’t know if the super adventure box has been removed, but if it has then just…/facepalm….

Wildstar’s got:

-Raids
-Battlegrounds
-Arena’s
-Player housing
-Path system
-Double jump and sprint!
-Warplots
-8 races
-Action combat
-6 classes
-Open world PvP

That is absolutely nothing to scoff at for a game to have at launch.

Not entirely sure why i went off on a rant, I guess it’s because each month Anet release these poorly made and quite honestly poor excuses for content that Wildstar has massively grabbed my attention I guess :/

TESO, Wildstar, ….

Before them was Neverwinter and yeah, that went great … I’m still going back to GW2 …

All games looks fantastic in the per-release (GW2 too), but this one is still only one that delivered at least a good portion of promises for me.

TheProphetOmega.3596:

@killcannon you say
“Customer feedback is important, one of the big three. Feedback, metrics, and listening (or communication). These three things are the key to improving any service. And an MMO is not a point of sale thing, but a service.”

but this game is both, its not an MMORPG in the traditional sense, it has a buy once model of distribution, and the added content could be considered a plus in the bundle, since the game does not have a monthly payment component any extra features are nothing more than nice extras, they are not bound to give us anything else, they already have our money anyway, besides reading the ToS, we don’t even “own” the software, and even if we did “own” it, it would be sold AS IS, and again, by accepting the ToS they could not be held liable under any means, even if using the software somehow affected you negatively in any way, so…

oh and about that comment on entropy, well its not that some people “just like entropy” and if we define entropy as the wearing down of the component parts of a CLOSED system because of heat, then everything is in a way moving towards entropy, change is the way the universe moves forward, that change means things will eventually wear down and pass away, nothing is eternal, we all die in the end, so moving on is actually the most efficient way of change, attrition can and has won wars, but its not as efficient as say, nuking or just letting things go.

Payment models have little to do with whether a game is an mmo or not. MMO’s are defined by the words Massively Multiplayer. Think about those words…Massively and Multiplayer. When a developer makes one of these, they are selling you an idea, and a world. The idea is tons of people to play with in an interesting and engaging world. It is a service that they provide you with this world and try to keep people in it, it’s alive in few ways other games can be, regardless if it’s sandbox or theme park. The game world and the way the population perceives and interacts with it change over time. If it doesn’t, the game and the population stagnate and die. Entropy. It’s the developers AND the players job to fight entropy and keep these worlds alive and interesting. In this way it is a service, and not a point of sale product. The developers job doesn’t end just because you bought the game, on the contrary, it’s just beginning.

When NCSoft decided to market this game as a buy to play experience, you didn’t just buy the world that came in the box or the download. You also bought any updates, patches, and people that came along with it. That was their choice in going for the model they chose, and it was and is a very good model. It made many buy the game who may not have otherwise.

Free advice: Don’t go with the ToS argument, it comes off really badly.

I too am interested in wildstar. I am curious though why people think wildstar which is a NCsoft game will have any less problems attributed to the parent company than GW2 which is a NCsoft game? Am I missing something?

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

People resort to hyperbole and outbursts most often when they feel like they aren’t being listened to. Staying with the steak analogy, if the first customer calmly asked for the steak to be taken back and redone in a calm, polite manner, and then received the steak back and it was still undercooked, that customer would then be more likely to respond in an outburst.

Going with your story analogy, did you open a line of communication with your 5 detractors? Did you discuss the why’s of their critique, and then after the discussion, not changing the entire idea of your story or vision of it, adjust certain things to make it a better work for all of your intended audience? According to your small focus group, you sold a story that slightly appealed to all of them, but greatly appealed to none of them. Communicating and adjusting one’s work to appeal to your audience is a great way to increase overall appeal, while still retaining vision and personal control.

Communication after feedback opens up even more possibilities for improvement and increases customer retention and a feeling of empowerment, which increases your brands overall loyalty. Something that seems to be slipping recently.

You’ve obviously never been in a critique group before.

Of course there was a dialogue…and a lengthy one. The point is that three of the people in that group didn’t feel the central plot was “worthy” of longer treatment. Two people in that group thought the central plot was. They were completely diametrically opposed. Both couldn’t be right.

My own personal opinion of that story was that it could have been shorter (and in fact I tried writing both longer and shorter versions of it after, based on the critiques) but neither of those versions was better than the original, so that was the one I submitted.

The critiquing did help me put stuff into perspective, but didn’t end up changing the final product all that much. And as I said, the piece sold. Someone liked it enough to have bought it, which is one of the things that you have to have if you’re going to write professionally. Had I made any of the suggested changes, there’s no guarantee it would have sold.

And also no guarantee it wouldn’t have sold for more, landed you a 20 book deal somewhere, and you could be making your own MMO. What if’s rarely go anywhere though. What happened, happened.

It breaks down to this is Anet’s choice to listen to their customers or not and open up feedback. If they do, there’s more proof to support the idea that things change for all involved for the better. If not, there is ample proof of businesses who have decided to go that route left along the wayside. Their choice, and the players choice. I support the players who wish to give voice to their ideas over the ones who wish to keep them muzzled.

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

People resort to hyperbole and outbursts most often when they feel like they aren’t being listened to. Staying with the steak analogy, if the first customer calmly asked for the steak to be taken back and redone in a calm, polite manner, and then received the steak back and it was still undercooked, that customer would then be more likely to respond in an outburst.

Going with your story analogy, did you open a line of communication with your 5 detractors? Did you discuss the why’s of their critique, and then after the discussion, not changing the entire idea of your story or vision of it, adjust certain things to make it a better work for all of your intended audience? According to your small focus group, you sold a story that slightly appealed to all of them, but greatly appealed to none of them. Communicating and adjusting one’s work to appeal to your audience is a great way to increase overall appeal, while still retaining vision and personal control.

Communication after feedback opens up even more possibilities for improvement and increases customer retention and a feeling of empowerment, which increases your brands overall loyalty. Something that seems to be slipping recently.

You’ve obviously never been in a critique group before.

Of course there was a dialogue…and a lengthy one. The point is that three of the people in that group didn’t feel the central plot was “worthy” of longer treatment. Two people in that group thought the central plot was. They were completely diametrically opposed. Both couldn’t be right.

My own personal opinion of that story was that it could have been shorter (and in fact I tried writing both longer and shorter versions of it after, based on the critiques) but neither of those versions was better than the original, so that was the one I submitted.

The critiquing did help me put stuff into perspective, but didn’t end up changing the final product all that much. And as I said, the piece sold. Someone liked it enough to have bought it, which is one of the things that you have to have if you’re going to write professionally. Had I made any of the suggested changes, there’s no guarantee it would have sold.

And also no guarantee it wouldn’t have sold for more, landed you a 20 book deal somewhere, and you could be making your own MMO. What if’s rarely go anywhere though. What happened, happened.

It breaks down to this is Anet’s choice to listen to their customers or not and open up feedback. If they do, there’s more proof to support the idea that things change for all involved for the better. If not, there is ample proof of businesses who have decided to go that route left along the wayside. Their choice, and the players choice. I support the players who wish to give voice to their ideas over the ones who wish to keep them muzzled.

Actually there is a guarantee that it wouldn’t have landed me a book deal. Book deals don’t come from short stories. The particularly subject of this short story would have never made a great book…not even a novella. It wouldn’t have sold for more because there are limited markets in which to submit. They all pay roughly the same amount. So yeah, there is a guarantee here. I got what I could get for it, and I probably couldn’t have gotten any more from it.

As for those who voice their concerns, if their concerns are wildly different from each other, who does Anet listen to? The problem is not that they listen or don’t listen, the problem is what’s mostly being asked for is contradictory to other stuff being asked for.

It’s like the ascended gear issue. Some people asked for it. Anet provided it. Some people left the game over it. It’s not always so easy to say listen to your customers. This is a far more complex issue than you’re making it out to be.

It really goes to show how greedy people have gotten and how much they take things like mmos for granted. Everyone seems to forget that we get a lot of new content every 2-4 weeks!! I can’t name any other game that gets that level of updates, especially in their first year. However everyone has already got so used to that, that they demand more, and more, and more! Very few expansions have been released in the first year of a game being released, even single player console games don’t get that. We’ve had a lot of fixes, changes etc on top of living story, some of which is permanent, and every 2-4 weeks!

I get how some can be disappointing, but take a second to put it in perspective. WoW for example (just a good example to choose, because everyones heard of it) has its content that gets stale and stays that way for months until they release a new expansion. And before everyone comes along saying “well WoW has raids” it’s not much different from the amount of content we have, but its different. Seems to me there are a lot of people who really don’t like change. I don’t really understand that because WoW is still out there to be played and I reckon that game in particular will take a LOT of time to actually die, so you could just go give it a try rather than complain. And if you complain so much about GW2 yet continue to play it, there’s no helping you so I almost feel sorry for you. On a last note most other mmo’s have been out for at least twice as long as GW, so there really is no comparison.

Edit – Also in WoW you have to pay full game retail price for every expansion. This content we get is free!

Players need to manage their expectations with reality. Not every piece of content is meant to tell some grandiose story. Spend less time attacking what we do have, and focus on what you as a gamer think they need to focus on in the future as far as vision and content. This destructive gamer personality of this OR that, and not this AND that has corrupted many healthy communities.

Also, feel lucky that you belong to a game that sees content generation at this fast of a rate. I’ve only seen content produced this quickly in some java based games like runescape for heavens sake. Have some gamers just had it too well over the past years? Be glad you didn’t come from a game with no content future and have to rely on a strong community.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

People resort to hyperbole and outbursts most often when they feel like they aren’t being listened to. Staying with the steak analogy, if the first customer calmly asked for the steak to be taken back and redone in a calm, polite manner, and then received the steak back and it was still undercooked, that customer would then be more likely to respond in an outburst.

Going with your story analogy, did you open a line of communication with your 5 detractors? Did you discuss the why’s of their critique, and then after the discussion, not changing the entire idea of your story or vision of it, adjust certain things to make it a better work for all of your intended audience? According to your small focus group, you sold a story that slightly appealed to all of them, but greatly appealed to none of them. Communicating and adjusting one’s work to appeal to your audience is a great way to increase overall appeal, while still retaining vision and personal control.

Communication after feedback opens up even more possibilities for improvement and increases customer retention and a feeling of empowerment, which increases your brands overall loyalty. Something that seems to be slipping recently.

You’ve obviously never been in a critique group before.

Of course there was a dialogue…and a lengthy one. The point is that three of the people in that group didn’t feel the central plot was “worthy” of longer treatment. Two people in that group thought the central plot was. They were completely diametrically opposed. Both couldn’t be right.

My own personal opinion of that story was that it could have been shorter (and in fact I tried writing both longer and shorter versions of it after, based on the critiques) but neither of those versions was better than the original, so that was the one I submitted.

The critiquing did help me put stuff into perspective, but didn’t end up changing the final product all that much. And as I said, the piece sold. Someone liked it enough to have bought it, which is one of the things that you have to have if you’re going to write professionally. Had I made any of the suggested changes, there’s no guarantee it would have sold.

And also no guarantee it wouldn’t have sold for more, landed you a 20 book deal somewhere, and you could be making your own MMO. What if’s rarely go anywhere though. What happened, happened.

It breaks down to this is Anet’s choice to listen to their customers or not and open up feedback. If they do, there’s more proof to support the idea that things change for all involved for the better. If not, there is ample proof of businesses who have decided to go that route left along the wayside. Their choice, and the players choice. I support the players who wish to give voice to their ideas over the ones who wish to keep them muzzled.

Actually there is a guarantee that it wouldn’t have landed me a book deal. Book deals don’t come from short stories. The particularly subject of this short story would have never made a great book…not even a novella. It wouldn’t have sold for more because there are limited markets in which to submit. They all pay roughly the same amount. So yeah, there is a guarantee here. I got what I could get for it, and I probably couldn’t have gotten any more from it.

As for those who voice their concerns, if their concerns are wildly different from each other, who does Anet listen to? The problem is not that they listen or don’t listen, the problem is what’s mostly being asked for is contradictory to other stuff being asked for.

It’s like the ascended gear issue. Some people asked for it. Anet provided it. Some people left the game over it. It’s not always so easy to say listen to your customers. This is a far more complex issue than you’re making it out to be.

Listening and providing feedback isn’t complex, the decisions that arise from that feedback and communication may be. If someone is not willing or able to make tough decisions, then game development may have been the wrong career choice.

Take for example the Ascended gear debacle. That whole situation could have been handled a thousand times better by opening up lines of communications with the players, listening to their concerns and providing feedback. Round tables could have been made, question and answer sessions could have been created, or a few other things. What happened instead? An impersonal, shoddily made, blanket statement. How many players did they lose over that one simple thing they did not do? How much trust as a development studio will they never get back? How much negative pr are they still seeing from it? Even if they had made the exact same decision in the end, it would have put them on a much better footing with their players, but they didn’t. And now they are paying the price every day.

Jaall.3420:

It really goes to show how greedy people have gotten and how much they take things like mmos for granted. Everyone seems to forget that we get a lot of new content every 2-4 weeks!! I can’t name any other game that gets that level of updates, especially in their first year. However everyone has already got so used to that, that they demand more, and more, and more! Very few expansions have been released in the first year of a game being released, even single player console games don’t get that. We’ve had a lot of fixes, changes etc on top of living story, some of which is permanent, and every 2-4 weeks!

I get how some can be disappointing, but take a second to put it in perspective. WoW for example (just a good example to choose, because everyones heard of it) has its content that gets stale and stays that way for months until they release a new expansion. And before everyone comes along saying “well WoW has raids” it’s not much different from the amount of content we have, but its different. Seems to me there are a lot of people who really don’t like change. I don’t really understand that because WoW is still out there to be played and I reckon that game in particular will take a LOT of time to actually die, so you could just go give it a try rather than complain. And if you complain so much about GW2 yet continue to play it, there’s no helping you so I almost feel sorry for you. On a last note most other mmo’s have been out for at least twice as long as GW, so there really is no comparison.

Edit – Also in WoW you have to pay full game retail price for every expansion. This content we get is free!

I don’t understand why people use WoW as an example of what not to do. They have had more players than all other mmo’s combined. That’s not an example of a bad game or a bad way to do things. That’s an example of doing something right.

I never used it as an example of what not to do at all. I simply used it as an example to show how GW is doing it somewhat right. People probably use WoW as an example because it’s so good everyone knows about it so easy for people to understand compared to other games that only 1/3 or half the community will have played. That’s why I used it anyway, I could have just as easily used any other mmo as an example but there is a good chance a lot of people won’t know whether it has a lot of updates or not.

Jaall.3420:

I never used it as an example of what not to do at all. I simply used it as an example to show how GW is doing it somewhat right. People probably use WoW as an example because it’s so good everyone knows about it so easy for people to understand compared to other games that only 1/3 or half the community will have played. That’s why I used it anyway, I could have just as easily used any other mmo as an example but there is a good chance a lot of people won’t know whether it has a lot of updates or not.

You used it in a compare and contrast study. Saying that “GW2 is producing such and such, but look at WoW not doing such and such, you should be happy”.

Leaving Pandaland out of it (because apparently Blizz lost their mind), WoW content has usually centered around the 2 to 3 month release stage. This content would be equal or greater than anything that GW2 has released in the same time period, be more polished, have greater longevity, and most importantly, not be removed two weeks later. A game doesn’t have to follow the same mechanics as WoW to learn that sometimes game content should be good and compelling to your target audience when you release it.

Also, fixing bugs and class balance is their own fault, not something we are receiving. I don’t thank people for fixing something they broke in the first place.

Entitlement is a thing for MMO players to try and beat. Come on, I will help you through your crisis!

Amadan.9451:

elder dragons are things for expansions i guess, not for monthly content

I really doubt they’re planning on that many expansions.

if arenanet sits on round table with us, not only they won’t have time to release anything new, but they will probably give up with games and humanity.
also, us is not 12 people like king arthur knights, we are a lot and we “hate” each other, and we hate people that want things we hate.
how can you possibly think it’s something doable?

do telephone company in your country talks to all their customer when they decide to change taxes or something and people just go to other companies? i bet they don’t, because it’s pointless

edit: this is not a restaurant in a city with base customer that you know by their face and you know what they like. this is a company world wide dealing with enraged children with nothing to do all day (i’m being one of those children at 35 yo)

killcannon.2576:

Jaall.3420:

I never used it as an example of what not to do at all. I simply used it as an example to show how GW is doing it somewhat right. People probably use WoW as an example because it’s so good everyone knows about it so easy for people to understand compared to other games that only 1/3 or half the community will have played. That’s why I used it anyway, I could have just as easily used any other mmo as an example but there is a good chance a lot of people won’t know whether it has a lot of updates or not.

You used it in a compare and contrast study. Saying that “GW2 is producing such and such, but look at WoW not doing such and such, you should be happy”.

Leaving Pandaland out of it (because apparently Blizz lost their mind), WoW content has usually centered around the 2 to 3 month release stage. This content would be equal or greater than anything that GW2 has released in the same time period, be more polished, have greater longevity, and most importantly, not be removed two weeks later. A game doesn’t have to follow the same mechanics as WoW to learn that sometimes game content should be good and compelling to your target audience when you release it.

Also, fixing bugs and class balance is their own fault, not something we are receiving. I don’t thank people for fixing something they broke in the first place.

You can take what you like from my post but you’re completely missing the point. If WoW is so good for you why not go back there? WoW is good in it’s own right but as you say, they are completely different games. Also as I stated WoW is a lot older than GW and in its first year had a lot less than we have now. WoW might release content every 2-3 months but that content was designed in the expansion and released only to those who bought that. It’s a fantastic business model and it works, and I’m not saying WoW is “bad” but GW2 has updates better, yet people seem to forget this and demand more.

I don’t get why you’re so offended that I used WoW as an example. You might wanna re-read my post explaining why I used it as an example, also re-read my first post explaining that due to the age of both games there is no real comparison. I used a comparison because without one nobody would understand that actually this game has it very good but it’s the selfish, demanding nature of a certain type of player that gives it a bad name. If we were to follow every criticism given by them nothing will ever be good.

Amadan.9451:

if arenanet sits on round table with us, not only the won’t have time to release anything new, but they will probably give up with games and humanity.
also, us is not 12 people like king arthur knights, we are a lot and we “hate” each other, and we hate people that want things we hate.
how can you possibly think it’s something doable?

do telephone company in your country talks to all their customer when they decide to change taxes or something and people just go to other companies? i bet they don’t, because it’s pointless

Really? They spend about 10 or more hours each month doing roundtables, and other non development related activities already. Guess that explains why they aren’t getting anything done. Except these roundtables aren’t with random players, these players are “specially selected”. Also a roundtable is a term used for a conference where individuals meet as equals to discuss topics and is not based on an arbitrary number. I can’t speak for you, but I do not “hate” anyone on these forums. But I’m not a fanboy/girl either. That’s generally where I see the “hate” flow from.

And yes, telephone companies do get together with governments and communities to discuss rate hikes and changes in billing. They also call their customers to ask them how they are doing as a service provider.

so if they actually do round tables why do you complain they don’t?

i know what a round table is, i don’t know if you know sarcasm.

i don’t hate anything either since i don’t like to waste feeling on people that doesn’t really exist in my life, but i read this forum and all i see is people comparing guild wars to a steak house and talking about wow.
and you know a conversation about gw2 is over when people for sake of argument use hyperboles, or talk about another game and how it’s better/worst.

about telephone company i worked so much in their call center that i know better how much they care about their customer opinion based on how much they pay them…

Jaall.3420:

killcannon.2576:

Jaall.3420:

I never used it as an example of what not to do at all. I simply used it as an example to show how GW is doing it somewhat right. People probably use WoW as an example because it’s so good everyone knows about it so easy for people to understand compared to other games that only 1/3 or half the community will have played. That’s why I used it anyway, I could have just as easily used any other mmo as an example but there is a good chance a lot of people won’t know whether it has a lot of updates or not.

You used it in a compare and contrast study. Saying that “GW2 is producing such and such, but look at WoW not doing such and such, you should be happy”.

Leaving Pandaland out of it (because apparently Blizz lost their mind), WoW content has usually centered around the 2 to 3 month release stage. This content would be equal or greater than anything that GW2 has released in the same time period, be more polished, have greater longevity, and most importantly, not be removed two weeks later. A game doesn’t have to follow the same mechanics as WoW to learn that sometimes game content should be good and compelling to your target audience when you release it.

Also, fixing bugs and class balance is their own fault, not something we are receiving. I don’t thank people for fixing something they broke in the first place.

You can take what you like from my post but you’re completely missing the point. If WoW is so good for you why not go back there? WoW is good in it’s own right but as you say, they are completely different games. Also as I stated WoW is a lot older than GW and in its first year had a lot less than we have now. WoW might release content every 2-3 months but that content was designed in the expansion and released only to those who bought that. It’s a fantastic business model and it works, and I’m not saying WoW is “bad” but GW2 has updates better, yet people seem to forget this and demand more.

I don’t get why you’re so offended that I used WoW as an example. You might wanna re-read my post explaining why I used it as an example, also re-read my first post explaining that due to the age of both games there is no real comparison. I used a comparison because without one nobody would understand that actually this game has it very good but it’s the selfish, demanding nature of a certain type of player that gives it a bad name. If we were to follow every criticism given by them nothing will ever be good.

I love the comeback “If you don’t like it leave”. Always so inspiring.

One: Never said WoW was good for me, please point me to where I said this.

Two: The two to three month content release is from patches, not expansions. I’m starting to get the feeling you are not familiar with the subject matter.

Three: Gw2 updates at about the same rate as WoW, as was stated. Except WoW uses permanent updates, not temporary ones.

Four: I’m not offended you used WoW as a model for your contrast and compare, I said I was perplexed at why you decided to use a more successful model to compare GW2 to.

Five: Age has nothing to do with the way a game releases content. It would if we were discussing amount of content overall, but since we are not I’m not sure why you are even bringing it up.

Six: It’s neither selfish or demanding to ask for compelling, interesting, polished content from game updates. Nor is it selfish or demanding to expect bug fixes and class balance. I’m not sure who wants mediocre, bland content but there sure are a lot of people defending it.

Seven: I don’t recall anyone saying they should do everything everyone asks for. That would be silly, where did you read that?

Killcannon I can safely say you are obviously unhappy with this game or its direction to the point of arguing its success. I shouldn’t have said you should go back to WoW. What I should have said instead was why are you still playing GW2? I don’t get why people would want to play a game they don’t fully enjoy when there are others out there that probably fill your every need, and if not then I doubt any will. I could be here arguing every one of your points forever, but it’s really not worth anymore of my time.

I will however finish on this (and this is directed at everyone who complains about everything) – If you don’t put this in perspective and enjoy the game for what it is then you are, whether you like or not, wasting your time. If you don’t enjoy it and feel you have to come onto a forum to constantly voice your complaint then no matter what happens in game you are not going to be satisfied.

There is nothing I can do about it, and nothing I will try to do about it, I’m simply putting it in perspective. Maybe using an example was wrong, I’ll admit that. My point however is still the same, and still stands to reason. The game does get new updates and no matter how big or small, people do enjoy the content released. They can’t please everyone and I doubt they even try to please everyone but this game is doing fantastically well in my opinion. Yes, it could be better but then so could every game? Go experiment on other games and see what’s best for you instead of complaining that the 1 mmo you chose isn’t right for you.

Agreed with OP, this game has no end game. Why continue playing it? Had high hopes for it, sad to see it in disarray. Its easy to say go find a new game, in practice its different, sadly friends from GW1 will not be as easily able to join you.

I think that the point of an MMO playing with people online making, online friends. You can say go find a new game all you want, the fact is many people were expecting this game to be better and it fell short. For many people who planned to play with friends from GW1 this is unacceptable, everyone buys it and now they are stuck with it.

To make things worst they still have European and American servers not able to be guested to and from. Why? Does this some how break the infrastructure of the game if so how and why would you design it in this way?

Only new content lately seems to be gem store items, and even these suck, and they are overpriced as a cheap money grab. You would think with all the money being made they could afford to add real content (not just a simple quest or poorly made item).

There is plenty of broken content still in GW2 even a year later, charisma/ferocity/dignity system for example.

In early descriptions given to us by ANET, the game was said to incorporate events in which a city would be attacked and everyone would have to defend the city. Instead, theirs map with small settlements not cities, where this happens but so few people play most the maps it’s irrelevant.

The world of PvE is quite atrocious and in need of help. Anet expects everyone to farm, but then doesn’t want us to farm?

Seems like a huge contradiction here figure out which one you want as a design philosophy. If so what type of farming, most map farming (think cursed shore) discourages any player interaction and leads to a single player game which is not what most people feel an MMO should be.

So your stuck with dungeons, or fractals for any involvement with guilds, I thought this was called Guild-wars?

To counter this Anet added small events for guilds (bounties for example), but these are isolated to larger guilds only, making smaller more tight-knit guilds unable to join in.

Further fracturing the community, someone needs to figure out how they are going to design the game, seems like it is pretty random lately.

Its obvious the game was designed from a business standpoint, (to make lots of money) not one of true love for expanding their guild-wars franchise, you can see it all throughout how the game is made.

And whoever is designing the game as a whole should seriously start analyzing what they are doing, its bad game design pure and simple, your customers are the gamers, not your CEO.

soboard.6974:

It really feels as if they don’t have any direction. I love Guild Wars and the lore. I love the game-world in GW2. But we still have NO road map. None at all.

Lol it feels like it has no direction because they haven’t taken the NEXT step – an expansion. All of this monthly content to me, as said before, is fleshing out the current world and it’s lore while at the same time refining ANet’s approach to new mechanics, and story-telling.

@killcannon

Not everyone is as reasonable as you are. A round table and communicating with fans is a recipe for disaster.

Even with the ascended stuff, I don’t think ANY amount of talking to fans would have resulted in anything different. Anet really believed some vertical progression was necessary at that time, and most of the long time hard core die hard fans wouldn’t have accepted it no matter what Anet said. I really believe this.

How Anet handled the roll out with the fractals was probably a mistake, but I’m pretty sure the hard core Guild Wars 2 fans that didn’t want any vertical progression at all would have made the same scene.

Anet’s own testers told them exactly how they felt about it, and how the fans would feel about it. But Anet made that change anyway, in their minds for the good of the game.

In the end, communication is only useful if most people you’re trying to communicate with are rational and reasonable. I’ve seen no evidence of this from the forums.

Yes x1000 to this thread.

I’m half way through my 2nd legendary and It just makes me sick seeing the garbage pumped out of the living story machine.

Temporary content is NOT the way to go. It’s basically making all of your effort and work put into that content only being seen by the people who were playing at the time.

If someone took a break and came back a month or two later. There would still be no content and nothing will have changed bar a few textures and models.

It’s pathetic, and saddening that Anet will just ignore this thread because of their “all knowing innovation”.

Please

ITT: Assuming that a festival dragging every big name to Lion’s Arch will wind up being pure fluff. Its like nobody was paying attention to Lord Faren and his new ladyfriend.

I really hope someone from Anet reads this thread, its sad, that so many people feel this way. I am sure their are people on here who will say well I love living story, well, that is fine for you, but your ignoring the rest of us. A game should strive to be fun for all should it not?

Being a game development company, and producing and selling is a game is no different then being in the entertainment industry, you entertain the customers failure to do anything other this will result in a failed product. It may be a business, but your business model fails if people abandon your game.

I am sure the number of people on guild-wars have greatly declined in recent months, I wonder why? Do not chalk it up to people just getting bored and going back to their favorite game, that is just an excuse.

The fact is it is lacking fun and replay value particularly for end game players.

Wait,

The living story is story telling? I mean, I certainly can understand in movies and books all the leap frogging around,but not in a livng breathing persistant world, and how do you explain the Molten Alliance? Its like they didnt have time to finish it, just end with an elevator and 3 bombs. Southsun was maybe closer to the story telling part of it, but even that I wouldnt call story telling.

ANet could certainly learn aloy more regarding story telling. I will say whoever created the infinity ball asuran personal story was a great story teller, they should be promoted.

The potential is there, just need to kitten your resources and you them wiser.

Wetpaw.3487:

Yargesh.4965:

I too am interested in wildstar. I am curious though why people think wildstar which is a NCsoft game will have any less problems attributed to the parent company than GW2 which is a NCsoft game? Am I missing something?

you can’t really compare Anet to Carbine, happy meal to a steak dinner…NCsoft knows this. Just do a side by side of what these two groups have done w/their product & in years of development for release.

but it’s real nice to see all those rng gw2 supporters open their wallets to help pour money in WS & ncsoft =).

Did I miss something? Has Wildstar released yet?

On a first casual appearance, looks like a straight up wow clone, even the same art style.

Mjgander.1905:

Mirta.5029:

Mjgander.1905:

Wildstar’s got:

-Raids
-Battlegrounds
-Arena’s
-Player housing
-Path system
-Double jump and sprint!
-Warplots
-8 races
-Action combat
-6 classes
-Open world PvP

Most people that are in GW2 don’t really like raids and things like that. So I don’t think that a game that caters to a completely different audience could destroy GW2.

There is more mmo’s to pull people from than just gw2, besides, Wildstar is looking to have more than enough content for non raiders.

Like for goodness sake they are going to have more than one PvP mode, 10 months in and all we got is a game balanced around a single game mode probably for the sake of esports when we all know deep down inside it’s probably never, ever going to happen.

Wildstar has more types of content at launch than gw2 in 10 months lol

EDIT: And I say “balanced” around conquest, and they can’t even do that >.<

And wildstar has NCSoft mark to, witch means it is bound to be overhyped, but still i think it will go better then gw2, and NCSoft will definitely give it more support/push.

Vayne.8563:

EVERY official MMORPG forum looks exactly like this one. The complaints about not enough end game, bad balance, too much grind, etc. Every single one of them.

Not true, some of them are worse. Go look at Neverwinter’s if you don’t believe me. The arguments are considerably less civil, the hate for the game — and the defense, are more vehement.

As a general rule:

Let the people who are enjoying the game have fun. If all you want to do is break down a community for some self serving ego, I’d kindly ask you to grow up. If you have a valid observation or suggestion then voice it. Leave the kitten throwing out of things and be level headed for a bit.

Also, this has bothered me for quite some time: It’s ok to like more than one MMO! Don’t pit games against each other for heavens sake, these things aren’t mutually exclusive. See a mechanic you like in Wildstar and want it here? They say that instead of causing a ruckus.

killcannon.2576:

TheProphetOmega.3596:

@killcannon you say
“Customer feedback is important, one of the big three. Feedback, metrics, and listening (or communication). These three things are the key to improving any service. And an MMO is not a point of sale thing, but a service.”

but this game is both, its not an MMORPG in the traditional sense, it has a buy once model of distribution, and the added content could be considered a plus in the bundle, since the game does not have a monthly payment component any extra features are nothing more than nice extras, they are not bound to give us anything else, they already have our money anyway, besides reading the ToS, we don’t even “own” the software, and even if we did “own” it, it would be sold AS IS, and again, by accepting the ToS they could not be held liable under any means, even if using the software somehow affected you negatively in any way, so…

oh and about that comment on entropy, well its not that some people “just like entropy” and if we define entropy as the wearing down of the component parts of a CLOSED system because of heat, then everything is in a way moving towards entropy, change is the way the universe moves forward, that change means things will eventually wear down and pass away, nothing is eternal, we all die in the end, so moving on is actually the most efficient way of change, attrition can and has won wars, but its not as efficient as say, nuking or just letting things go.

You also bought any updates, patches, and people that came along with it. That was their choice in going for the model they chose, and it was and is a very good model. It made many buy the game who may not have otherwise.

Free advice: Don’t go with the ToS argument, it comes off really badly.

It always makes me wonder why you say this. I’m curious why you think the box sales means we paid for all future content and it should be free? I buy a car, I get the car as is, I may get a warranty but I don’t get lifetime repair. In a free to play game I get lifetime updates/content unless they state otherwise. But as a business how can you say that the box sales is enough to foster endless updates and expansions? If this were the case, then removing the gem store altogether would mean we could just go on getting updates forever right? because we paid for the box? I just don’t get this, maybe I’m misunderstanding it, but you say it often. Imo Gem sales are what pays for future content, after basic deductions for salary, overhead etc are taken care of. Granted they have a larger pool of money to work with, but surviving off of original sales as a model to survive just seems silly. You need after purchase revenue in any business for longevity, and that’s the purpose of the gem store. So when we support that store we are paying for content in the future. When you say the box sale means we deserve everything free forever without ever contributing just sounds entitled. But again, maybe I’m misunderstanding.

Turgut.4397:

Not to mention NCsoft take in all the income from bought gems.. the money is spread out through their games. There will be an expansion, but when? NCsoft need to get their kitten in gear, and focus on their most successful MMO.. GUILD WARS.

Wildstar? Wow, player housing, that’s not been done before. Aion was a flop. Tabula Rasa lasted 2 years. How will Wildstar be any different? They need to pump all their cash into GW2 and Anet, so we start getting good, enjoyable, and lasting content.

To be honest neither of the living stories have caught my interest. Haven’t done anything for them, maybe spent 30 mins wandering around, got bored, and went back to doing my own thing..

You think GW2 is more successful than Lineage 2? I think you’re dreaming…

Phaedryn.3698:

Turgut.4397:

Not to mention NCsoft take in all the income from bought gems.. the money is spread out through their games. There will be an expansion, but when? NCsoft need to get their kitten in gear, and focus on their most successful MMO.. GUILD WARS.

Wildstar? Wow, player housing, that’s not been done before. Aion was a flop. Tabula Rasa lasted 2 years. How will Wildstar be any different? They need to pump all their cash into GW2 and Anet, so we start getting good, enjoyable, and lasting content.

To be honest neither of the living stories have caught my interest. Haven’t done anything for them, maybe spent 30 mins wandering around, got bored, and went back to doing my own thing..

You think GW2 is more successful than Lineage 2? I think you’re dreaming…

Lol, i doubt gw2 is even on top 10 of MMO (popularity wise) at this state. (wow, star wars, runes of magic, lineage, vindictus, runescape……)

Heh… gotta agree with the OP…

I don’t spend all my time in the Lore sections, but I couldn’t help but notice that GW2 feels like “Bleach” waiting for the rest of the Fights against the real Arrancars. Gw1’s storylines after Nightfall didn’t exactly hit it out of the park everytime either… but atleast they made us feel like we were still moving forward in time towards some stuff that was epic b/c it was epic (not epic b/c they changed the top tier of our gear treadmills).

I think I’d rather sit through 8 more Zinn Trials than do some of the stuff I’ve seen on the docket here…

Sovta.4719:

Lol, i doubt gw2 is even on top 10 of MMO (popularity wise) at this state. (wow, star wars, runes of magic, lineage, vindictus, runescape……)

I think that you really don’t realize how many users star wars has lost.
I think that it would be somewhere on the top 10. Especially with old MMOs loosing users. (Though I imagine WoW, lineage and runescape are still standing as giants)

Mirta.5029:

Sovta.4719:

Lol, i doubt gw2 is even on top 10 of MMO (popularity wise) at this state. (wow, star wars, runes of magic, lineage, vindictus, runescape……)

I think that you really don’t realize how many users star wars has lost.
I think that it would be somewhere on the top 10. Especially with old MMOs loosing users. (Though I imagine WoW, lineage and runescape are still standing as giants)

I think YOU don’t realize how many users gw2 lost/IS losing.
Star wars had pretty good bump at player numbers when they went f2p. I could say more names for MMO, but for some i’m not sure (like Alods)

Sovta.4719:

Mirta.5029:

Sovta.4719:

Lol, i doubt gw2 is even on top 10 of MMO (popularity wise) at this state. (wow, star wars, runes of magic, lineage, vindictus, runescape……)

I think that you really don’t realize how many users star wars has lost.
I think that it would be somewhere on the top 10. Especially with old MMOs loosing users. (Though I imagine WoW, lineage and runescape are still standing as giants)

I think YOU don’t realize how many users gw2 lost/IS losing.
Star wars had pretty good bump at player numbers when they went f2p. I could say more names for MMO, but for some i’m not sure (like Alods)

To be honest, neither do you. You have no metrics, no statistics, no analysis that is 100% factual to prove GW2 is gaining/losing/steady. Arenanet does, and until they release those numbers, statements like these are valueless assumptions.

Geotherma.2395:

Sovta.4719:

Mirta.5029:

Sovta.4719:

Lol, i doubt gw2 is even on top 10 of MMO (popularity wise) at this state. (wow, star wars, runes of magic, lineage, vindictus, runescape……)

I think that you really don’t realize how many users star wars has lost.
I think that it would be somewhere on the top 10. Especially with old MMOs loosing users. (Though I imagine WoW, lineage and runescape are still standing as giants)

I think YOU don’t realize how many users gw2 lost/IS losing.
Star wars had pretty good bump at player numbers when they went f2p. I could say more names for MMO, but for some i’m not sure (like Alods)

To be honest, neither do you. You have no metrics, no statistics, no analysis that is 100% factual to prove GW2 is gaining/losing/steady. Arenanet does, and until they release those numbers, statements like these are valueless assumptions.

Yea, right. I posted again and again, i KNOW this game is losing players, just looking at wvw, spvp population and inactive members of guilds. You can try to avoid truth but it’s still there. You know there isn’t REAL endgame here, you know that living story with 2h of gameplay added (except MF) is not going to hold players for long.

Oh wait, it says high pop server so it must be true. (it’s accounts)

Sovta.4719:

Geotherma.2395:

Sovta.4719:

Mirta.5029:

Sovta.4719:

Lol, i doubt gw2 is even on top 10 of MMO (popularity wise) at this state. (wow, star wars, runes of magic, lineage, vindictus, runescape……)

I think that you really don’t realize how many users star wars has lost.
I think that it would be somewhere on the top 10. Especially with old MMOs loosing users. (Though I imagine WoW, lineage and runescape are still standing as giants)

I think YOU don’t realize how many users gw2 lost/IS losing.
Star wars had pretty good bump at player numbers when they went f2p. I could say more names for MMO, but for some i’m not sure (like Alods)

To be honest, neither do you. You have no metrics, no statistics, no analysis that is 100% factual to prove GW2 is gaining/losing/steady. Arenanet does, and until they release those numbers, statements like these are valueless assumptions.

Yea, right. I posted again and again, i KNOW this game is losing players, just looking at wvw, spvp population and inactive members of guilds. You can try to avoid truth but it’s still there. You know there isn’t REAL endgame here, you know that living story with 2h of gameplay added (except MF) is not going to hold players for long.

Oh wait, it says high pop server so it must be true. (it’s accounts)

Your still just making assumptions. Again you don’t have the tools to really see every server, all the time. You can’t pass your opinion or anecdotal information off as fact, it just sounds silly. Also, it isn’t a sub game, so there is that to consider as well. people don’t have to come back, because it costs nothing to take a break.

I wont be buying Wildstar or any other NCSoft game until they learn to appreciate that rewarded and happy players spend money and support games. Not spending £60 to level to highest level and then find out everything you want is nerfed to the floor or hidden behind cash shop transactions.

Mirta.5029:

Sovta.4719:

Lol, i doubt gw2 is even on top 10 of MMO (popularity wise) at this state. (wow, star wars, runes of magic, lineage, vindictus, runescape……)

I think that you really don’t realize how many users star wars has lost.
I think that it would be somewhere on the top 10. Especially with old MMOs loosing users. (Though I imagine WoW, lineage and runescape are still standing as giants)

The top games would be WoW, Aion, Lineage, Lineage 2, and Runescape. Those are the ones sitting at 1 million-ish+ players. Then comes things like Second Life. Honestly, since GW2’s revenue stream isn’t subscription based I am actually surprised they do not publish their concurrent user numbers. Hell, Eve does it and it is subscription based.

Sovta.4719:

Lol, i doubt gw2 is even on top 10 of MMO (popularity wise) at this state. (wow, star wars, runes of magic, lineage, vindictus, runescape……)

Guild Wars 2 made over $36 million last quarter.

EA says TOR ‘more than doubled’ their numbers last quarter from their 400-500k subs. That puts them in the $15 to 22.5 million range. That also includes a paid expansion as well.

Now then, do you have any counter-facts?

Sovta.4719:

Geotherma.2395:

Sovta.4719:

Mirta.5029:

Sovta.4719:

Lol, i doubt gw2 is even on top 10 of MMO (popularity wise) at this state. (wow, star wars, runes of magic, lineage, vindictus, runescape……)

I think that you really don’t realize how many users star wars has lost.
I think that it would be somewhere on the top 10. Especially with old MMOs loosing users. (Though I imagine WoW, lineage and runescape are still standing as giants)

I think YOU don’t realize how many users gw2 lost/IS losing.
Star wars had pretty good bump at player numbers when they went f2p. I could say more names for MMO, but for some i’m not sure (like Alods)

To be honest, neither do you. You have no metrics, no statistics, no analysis that is 100% factual to prove GW2 is gaining/losing/steady. Arenanet does, and until they release those numbers, statements like these are valueless assumptions.

Yea, right. I posted again and again, i KNOW this game is losing players, just looking at wvw, spvp population and inactive members of guilds. You can try to avoid truth but it’s still there. You know there isn’t REAL endgame here, you know that living story with 2h of gameplay added (except MF) is not going to hold players for long.

Oh wait, it says high pop server so it must be true. (it’s accounts)

The game may be losing players indeed, but it does not mean it isn’t also gaining players, or that older players who have left do not return.

Without the proper metrics, which the general player base does not have access to, there is no way to accurately gauge player churn, concurrent players, or an accurate server load. Anecdotal evidence can support either a growing or shrinking player base depending upon player experience. What you are experiencing is a perceived loss of population, or you are pushing an agenda.

Geotherma.2395:

killcannon.2576:

TheProphetOmega.3596:

@killcannon you say
“Customer feedback is important, one of the big three. Feedback, metrics, and listening (or communication). These three things are the key to improving any service. And an MMO is not a point of sale thing, but a service.”

but this game is both, its not an MMORPG in the traditional sense, it has a buy once model of distribution, and the added content could be considered a plus in the bundle, since the game does not have a monthly payment component any extra features are nothing more than nice extras, they are not bound to give us anything else, they already have our money anyway, besides reading the ToS, we don’t even “own” the software, and even if we did “own” it, it would be sold AS IS, and again, by accepting the ToS they could not be held liable under any means, even if using the software somehow affected you negatively in any way, so…

oh and about that comment on entropy, well its not that some people “just like entropy” and if we define entropy as the wearing down of the component parts of a CLOSED system because of heat, then everything is in a way moving towards entropy, change is the way the universe moves forward, that change means things will eventually wear down and pass away, nothing is eternal, we all die in the end, so moving on is actually the most efficient way of change, attrition can and has won wars, but its not as efficient as say, nuking or just letting things go.

You also bought any updates, patches, and people that came along with it. That was their choice in going for the model they chose, and it was and is a very good model. It made many buy the game who may not have otherwise.

Free advice: Don’t go with the ToS argument, it comes off really badly.

It always makes me wonder why you say this. I’m curious why you think the box sales means we paid for all future content and it should be free? I buy a car, I get the car as is, I may get a warranty but I don’t get lifetime repair. In a free to play game I get lifetime updates/content unless they state otherwise. But as a business how can you say that the box sales is enough to foster endless updates and expansions? If this were the case, then removing the gem store altogether would mean we could just go on getting updates forever right? because we paid for the box? I just don’t get this, maybe I’m misunderstanding it, but you say it often. Imo Gem sales are what pays for future content, after basic deductions for salary, overhead etc are taken care of. Granted they have a larger pool of money to work with, but surviving off of original sales as a model to survive just seems silly. You need after purchase revenue in any business for longevity, and that’s the purpose of the gem store. So when we support that store we are paying for content in the future. When you say the box sale means we deserve everything free forever without ever contributing just sounds entitled. But again, maybe I’m misunderstanding.

I almost typed out my reasoning behind my opinion, then thought better of it. If you want to know the difference in the payment models for mmo’s, go google it.

As it stands, if you feel like supporting them over and above the box sale, go for it. If there is something I want in the gemstore I buy it, but it’s because I want to, not because I feel an obligation. It was their choice to go the buy to play model, if or when they decide to eschew this model for the free to play model, or subscription is entirely their choice as well.

Free to play means free to play
Buy to play means buy to play
Pay to play means pay to play

What kind of game is this to you? Because it sounds like you are saying it’s a pay to play game.

Phaedryn.3698:

The top games would be WoW, Aion, Lineage, Lineage 2, and Runescape. Those are the ones sitting at 1 million-ish+ players. Then comes things like Second Life. Honestly, since GW2’s revenue stream isn’t subscription based I am actually surprised they do not publish their concurrent user numbers. Hell, Eve does it and it is subscription based.

It’s mostly because those games have to publish their numbers. They revenue depends on how many people are subscribed currently, therefore every quarter they have to give out their subscriber numbers. GW2 does not depend on the subscription model, therefore they only need to point out how much money they made from gem store/ copies sold and go not necessarily have to say how many people are active at the moment. Though it would be nice if they did.
Also the games that you named are sitting at about 5 million + people. As far as I remember wow still has 8 million, Runescape has last time I checked 15 million, Aion is lower, Lineage and Lineage 2 are still both massively popular.
However even GW2 would probably sit at above 1 million active players. So would Tera. GW2 at least had moderate success at an MMO market, that’s why I’m thinking that it might barely get into that Top 10 (in comparison to games like SWTOR that can’t get even close to 1 million and that’s generally how most MMOs are).

Sovta.4719:

Yea, right. I posted again and again, i KNOW this game is losing players, just looking at wvw, spvp population and inactive members of guilds. You can try to avoid truth but it’s still there. You know there isn’t REAL endgame here, you know that living story with 2h of gameplay added (except MF) is not going to hold players for long.

Oh wait, it says high pop server so it must be true. (it’s accounts)

And that’s based on your personal observations, not hard numbers. My guild on Underworld is always unhappy because the lines for WvW in evenings can be 40 minutes long. No complaints about population here. However I can’t claim growth (even though I do see and help new people all the time), because neither of us has actual hard numbers.
However I don’t see that lack of population or the game dying (like some claim) at all. I’ve been to MMOs that can’t even hit a million players and trust me, it looks far more barren than this one.

Sovta.4719:

I think YOU don’t realize how many users gw2 lost/IS losing.
Star wars had pretty good bump at player numbers when they went f2p. I could say more names for MMO, but for some i’m not sure (like Alods)

Star wars never went free to play as far as I know, they have been called out for false advertisement and were forced to tell correctly that all they’re offering is a demo (you can only chose from 2 races, a few classes and are capped at level 20 unless you start paying subscription). Because of that false advertisement gimmick in actually lost potential buyers and are hanging around 400-500K players, which for an MMO is not enough to name it a successful one.

killcannon.2576:

What you are experiencing is a perceived loss of population, or you are pushing an agenda.

As are you pushing an agenda to counter it sounds like. The point is you have no numbers to prove the contrary either, stop speculating.

One thing is true, GW2 sales are in decline.
http://www.vg247.com/2013/05/13/ncsoft-q1-guild-wars-2-sales-flatten-but-profits-up/

And it would go to reason based on this logic.

If fewer people are buying it there will be less people on it especially as they reach the end game of an unfinished product. And find themselves bored with nothing to do.

This is entirely off point of the topic who cares how many players the game has, it has no end game content after a year, and still feels like its in beta.

killcannon.2576:

Geotherma.2395:

killcannon.2576:

TheProphetOmega.3596:

You also bought any updates, patches, and people that came along with it. That was their choice in going for the model they chose, and it was and is a very good model. It made many buy the game who may not have otherwise.

Free advice: Don’t go with the ToS argument, it comes off really badly.

It always makes me wonder why you say this. I’m curious why you think the box sales means we paid for all future content and it should be free? I buy a car, I get the car as is, I may get a warranty but I don’t get lifetime repair. In a free to play game I get lifetime updates/content unless they state otherwise. But as a business how can you say that the box sales is enough to foster endless updates and expansions? If this were the case, then removing the gem store altogether would mean we could just go on getting updates forever right? because we paid for the box? I just don’t get this, maybe I’m misunderstanding it, but you say it often. Imo Gem sales are what pays for future content, after basic deductions for salary, overhead etc are taken care of. Granted they have a larger pool of money to work with, but surviving off of original sales as a model to survive just seems silly. You need after purchase revenue in any business for longevity, and that’s the purpose of the gem store. So when we support that store we are paying for content in the future. When you say the box sale means we deserve everything free forever without ever contributing just sounds entitled. But again, maybe I’m misunderstanding.

I almost typed out my reasoning behind my opinion, then thought better of it. If you want to know the difference in the payment models for mmo’s, go google it.

As it stands, if you feel like supporting them over and above the box sale, go for it. If there is something I want in the gemstore I buy it, but it’s because I want to, not because I feel an obligation. It was their choice to go the buy to play model, if or when they decide to eschew this model for the free to play model, or subscription is entirely their choice as well.

Free to play means free to play
Buy to play means buy to play
Pay to play means pay to play

What kind of game is this to you? Because it sounds like you are saying it’s a pay to play game.

I don’t feel obligated to pay anything, or to pay to enjoy. Since it is free, if I see something I like I buy it. If I didn’t like/support the game I would never put funds into it. As with any company I show my support and approval through cash, the best known language of business. If I like a certain store, i go there to shop because I agree with its model, its designs, or its prices. If I don’t i simply go elsewhere. I don’t feel obligated to pay money for content, but I know my money goes towards it. If I didn’t want the content, didn’t care for content, didn’t care for the game I would go elsewhere. It is a B2P game yes, and I have a choice to support it by buying things. Not because I’m obligated but because it shows support.

That support turns into more content for me to further enjoy or not enjoy. When they lack the content to make me happy, when things are too utterly ruined or unplayable that I am no longer happy, then I will discontinue buying things. I, as with others like myself, speak with our cash, because Arenanet and every business can understand that language. A language that is much clearer, much more efficient than silly rants about dying games, or promotional threads for the “next big MMO” , or the new “WoW/GW2 killer”. I have better things to do that squabble with those kinds of threads, like buy a teddy bear hat. Not because I like teddy bear hats, but because my asura looks flipping adorable with it. Bonus is that it supports the game, maybe that Axe will be epic, maybe I’ll buy that too. All that translates into $$$, $$$ $$$ $$ $ $$$ $$ . Not to say I’m only paying for/supporting gem shop items, I am highly anticipating dragon stuff, as is my 6 year old son. So here Anet, here’s my 400 gems for hats, and a thank you for dragon pinatas and chocob… I mean Moa races.

Void.4205:

This is entirely off point of the topic who cares how many players the game has, it has no end game content after a year, and still feels like its in beta.

every time when I hear this point I just want to ask what do people perceive as end game content
PvP, WvW – here
dungeons – here
What do you do in other MMOs after you have done everything? Grind for gear? What about when you get that gear?

War Siren.2346:

1.It’s been almost 1 year (10 months-sih) since GW2 came out, not only do we not have any sort of fun or engaging PvE endgame, the games METAgame is in disarray, and they haven’t moved the main story any further since we Killed (but not really we shot sparkle guns while he King Konged.) Zhaitan.

2.So instead of going further along with the Elder Dragon story (we still have what 4 of them?)3. You guys decide with every Living story and event to side step the main game story and open up other story lines Some were terrific (Molten Alliance.) Some were boring and didn’t even make me bat an eye at it. (South Sun stuff.) and the next event you give us is another happy cheering pointless party event…. I’m sure it may be fun ..but kitten can we please move on with the story?

4.At this point any hope I have of this game adding any sort of significant Endgame that doesn’t involve PvP of some magnitude (I still hate WvW still just Zerg vs Zerg… which is mainly because Towers, and Camps etc are to close together, and there’s no threat of a real counter with AoE being capped at 5, and more than useless Guards/Captains… but that’s another post.) is for Anet to continue the story and hope they learned from their mistake with Zhaitan and actually let us fight the darn dragon.

5.Seriously Anet.. stop side stepping your main story get back to it!!!

Entire game is endgame, what you start with is what exists at the end, well sorta. Zones and dungeons are going to be tough/impossible until you meet the level requirements, but those are more rewards then goals. I killed him way back during the first couple months, so if they’ve updated the fight aside the friendship cannon, I have no idea. Of course given his size, going “toe to toe” would be laughable, though flying the blimp closer so I could hit him with my sword would of been neat.

2. 5 left, there’s Primordius, Jormag, Kralkatorrik, Mordremoth and Bubbles.

3. Just partially a paragraph you said there wasn’t engaging pve…well endgame, but this sorta counts I suppose. Could of smooshed it from five to three and it would of been solid, but it was experimental content. Southsun gave me an excuse to do something in southsun other than dork around.

4. What is endgame to you exactly. You keep using that word, I don’t think it means what you think it means. If you mean raids, there’s Wv3, but you don’t like it, though the preview of changes make it sound like they’re going to reward strategic play more so then zerg rushing, hopefully something along the lines of punishment for capping and then abandoning everything for quick points.

5. I’m to guess they’re saving the other dragon’s for expansions, though it worries me they’ll pull a similar storyline together, and many movies do it and suck because of it…rehashing. Technically they are continuing the story, but it’s more local problems then dragons, if you ignore the problems at home, soldiers will suffer on the battlefield.

Mirta.5029:

every time when I hear this point I just want to ask what do people perceive as end game content
PvP, WvW – here
dungeons – here
What do you do in other MMOs after you have done everything? Grind for gear? What about when you get that gear?

I suggest you read my first post I explained it pretty well, there is very little in terms of PvE content. You listed 2 things, and farming. But Anet does not want you to farm they constantly go back and forth with this due to not putting in place a game design principle they hope to achieve in stone.

Most MMOs have lots of other options, for example the failed crafting system would of been nice end game content instead of just being a money sink, with little in terms of a reward.

For example in GW1 you could go back and do the bonus features of each mission. You could farm or, do things like FoW, or UW, Guild Wars, on top of the PvP.

And this was released years ago, it would stand to reason GW2 should of been better? Why is it not?

I could list tons of things other MMOs have done to add replay value.

End game content in this instance means replay value.

It would be neat if WvW had different game modes with specific themes, zombie theme, pirate theme, robot theme, and the people attributes, skills, and forts you defend change every week so its not so repetitive.

The dungeons are also extremely repetitive. You do the same thing again and again, after you’ve done it once why should you ever do it again.