Guild Wars 2

We really do. Guild Wars 2 was not what you expected. You were hoping for more. You’re disappointed. Disillusioned.

Angry.

But you know what? That’s your own fault. Not ArenaNet’s. Not NCSoft’s. Yours. It’s your fault for ignoring the advertising and publicity that was so lovingly crafted to showcase this game. It’s your fault for refusing the opportunities to educate yourself as to what Guild Wars 2 actually was before you played it. You were the one that created this image in your head of what you wanted Guild Wars 2 to be.

And guess what? It didn’t end up being your perfect game—your “WoW-Killer.” You’ve experienced this pattern before; it’s happened with every other MMORPG you’ve played in the last seven years. You shouldn’t be surprised that it wasn’t what you thought.

Guild Wars 2 is not perfect. And it will never be perfect. It has it’s flaws. We’ve all encountered bugs and things that frustrated us. But a lot of the problems we’re having aren’t stemming from the game, but come from our own attitudes. We can’t expect the game to be what it isn’t. We can help it forward, but there is no point in getting mad because something isn’t how you wanted it to be. That is a childish behavior. That may have gotten you somewhere with your parents when you were younger, and you may have never grown out of it. You can’t be blamed for that. It’s just a fact of life. But it still doesn’t help any of us. The sooner we can all accept that, the sooner we can move this community in a direction where we might actually be productive. An MMO is nothing without it’s community. We make it the game that it is. Oh, of course the people who made the game “made it.” But we, as players, populate the world. Without us, it is empty. Barren.

We all had dreams of what we wanted Guild Wars 2 to be. If we ever want Guild Wars 2 to be that game, we have to take a hand in moving it forward. Before you cry that something is broken, stop and think. Maybe you can save someone some time by finding a solution on your own. Before you moan that your class is underpowered and that whatever is killing you is massively overtuned, take some time and look it up. Maybe there was something you didn’t think of.

Don’t let this game fall into the trap that so many other games have fallen into. Let our community be a community of people. Not just players in a game, but residents in an online world. We, just the same as anyone else, can make a lasting contribution.

What can you offer?

Great post. There do seem to be a lot of people that “MMO hop” and those players will never be satisfied… EVER. There is no game that can fill the void they are looking for. Not sure why they think every game they try out is going to “be the one”.

Some people were really looking for tangible gear rewards “end game” and when they hit that gear cap they see no point to playing anymore. Those are the same players that think dungeons are pointless because dungeons are for cosmetic gear not stat gear. For those of us that play the game for fun were doing just that. Playing and having fun.

You can type it all out and spend all this time thinking about the people who complain about the game, but people post this exact thread in every MMO game that comes out, and it never does any good. Complaining about the complainers doesn´t matter because they´re not looking to be told they´re wrong.

The players expecting instant rewards and satisfaction when they want it will soon be dropping off, so don’t sweat it.

Making a thread won’t stop them though sadly.

Alright, now stop posting so players concerns can be seen.

I knew this would happen. People back in August thought that SWTOR was going to kill WoW, I played the beta in November and it was okay (didn’t get past 8 it just wasn’t addicting) on the starter planet, then more problems became noticeable and glaring. It went good for a few months (guild mostly kept me and I only went to Bel Savis if I teamed up as it’d be too boring otherwise)

This late into GW2 is too late for a honeymoon phase, but it is a good enough game. However, like any game it can be improved upon, like giving players a PvE version of resolve that applies to snares and pull backs as well (to avoid entire groups spamming pull back and slow down as that makes it nearly impossible to get away and resolve would give players a very credible chance of getting away in time).

Hopefully your personal opinion will make up for lost revenue due to poor design, lack of testing and kneejerk implementation. Actually, hopefully it won’t, so that game companies will be encouraged to finish a game before selling it and advertising the game they are selling as opposed to the one they believe their fans want to play.

Loxias.2375:

Hopefully your personal opinion will make up for lost revenue due to poor design, lack of testing and kneejerk implementation. Actually, hopefully it won’t, so that game companies will be encouraged to finish a game before selling it and advertising the game they are selling as opposed to the one they believe their fans want to play.

believe their fans want to play.

believe their fans want to play.

believe their fans want to play.

after the dungeon nerfs this game has become nothing but a “game on the side” for me. There’s nothing else for me to do atm. There are too many bugs for me to complete everything, and access my own main characters potential as well as other professions.

Arisal.9740:

Great post. There do seem to be a lot of people that “MMO hop” and those players will never be satisfied… EVER. There is no game that can fill the void they are looking for. Not sure why they think every game they try out is going to “be the one”.

Some people were really looking for tangible gear rewards “end game” and when they hit that gear cap they see no point to playing anymore. Those are the same players that think dungeons are pointless because dungeons are for cosmetic gear not stat gear. For those of us that play the game for fun were doing just that. Playing and having fun.

GW has never been about gear. Grinding has always been for vanity items. If people thought otherwise they were just ignorant. I absolutely hate the gear grind mentality of other MMOs and that’s why I adore GWx.

I get what you are saying Yssta.8345. So do my friends. Then again we all knew what Guild Wars 2 was going to be before we bought it. We understood that it was going to be fun centric and not gear centric.

One of my friends that now plays GW2 was a top guild leader in WoW several years ago. So high up that she and her guild got to play test new content several times. She loves GW2! She has played many MMOs and been guild leader on many. Every day she is amazed at how good the content and the game in general is compared to anything else she has ever played.

There are going to be many people who just do not get it however. People like Loxias will think that something is poorly designed because it does not fit the mold that they were expecting. I really feel sorry for people that forget that games are supposed to be fun and not every game will be fun for everyone.

The same things were said about GW1 and it made ArenaNet a lot of money. I am sure GW2 will make them even more. I find myself logging on and wondering where 4 hours just went. Any game that can do that to an old and jaded gamer like me is a good game.

Props to the OP. Spot on.

Tigger.8035:

after the dungeon nerfs this game has become nothing but a “game on the side” for me. There’s nothing else for me to do atm. There are too many bugs for me to complete everything, and access my own main characters potential as well as other professions.

I haven’t done many dungeons, os I’m not sure what these nerfs are that I keep hearing. From the wiki I can gather that CoF went from being 26s on first completion and 15s on subsequent runs, to 26s on first completion and 5s on subsequent runs. My question is when is it considered a first run? Is it considered a first run every new path you do, or only one path per day counts as the first run? Is there something I’m missing as the nerf only seems to apply to subsequent runs, not the initial reward? How many runs did you normally do in a day?

I love this game. Of course, I bothered to research it beforehand, and I don’t need to speedclear dungeons to find enjoyment.

Loxias.2375:

Hopefully your personal opinion will make up for lost revenue due to poor design, lack of testing and kneejerk implementation. Actually, hopefully it won’t, so that game companies will be encouraged to finish a game before selling it and advertising the game they are selling as opposed to the one they believe their fans want to play.

There’s no monthly fee. If you don’t like it, you don’t have any reason to keep playing other than the people you play with.

I’m not quite sure why you stay if you have such problems with it and yet can’t handle it not being perfect. ArenaNet was incredibly transparent with their development process. Why are you mad that you got exactly what was advertised?

Tigger.8035:

believe their fans want to play.

believe their fans want to play.

believe their fans want to play.

after the dungeon nerfs this game has become nothing but a “game on the side” for me. There’s nothing else for me to do atm. There are too many bugs for me to complete everything, and access my own main characters potential as well as other professions.

I refer you to http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/80-things-do-level-80.

Your complaining is falling on deaf ears. There are plenty of things to do. Try them.

Sure, there aren’t raids for you to do when you’re max level. But there are other things to do. Guild Wars 2 does not follow your traditional endgame formula of gearing up for Raids through dungeons and lower raiding tiers and then clearing content. This was something they told us from day 1. Guild Wars endgame is about sPvP, World vs. World, Dungeons, and World Events. We knew this.

I honestly cannot fathom why you feel like your complaints are valid if they’re not explicitly related to bugs. We all knew what we were getting when we purchased this game. Where were you on that?

I don’t get what’s up. I’m having a blast so far! As someone who throughly enjoyed Left 4 Dead (2), Diablo 1/2 and GW1 It offers everything I want in such a game.

Its funny how the first line of the Manifesto is
If you love MMOs you’re going to love guildwars
If you hate MMOs you’re really gonna wanna check out guildwars.

As I said in another thread. You have to see GW2 for what it is. Not what you thought it was, or what you wanted it to be.
The casual gameplay turns some people off. The freedom in character builds, freedom in gameplay options (how you chose to spend your time ingame) confuses some.

It is what it is, and it may not be for everyone. Don’t waste your time trying to turn the game into something it’s not.

Yssta.8345:

Loxias.2375:

Hopefully your personal opinion will make up for lost revenue due to poor design, lack of testing and kneejerk implementation. Actually, hopefully it won’t, so that game companies will be encouraged to finish a game before selling it and advertising the game they are selling as opposed to the one they believe their fans want to play.

There’s no monthly fee. If you don’t like it, you don’t have any reason to keep playing other than the people you play with.

I’m not quite sure why you stay if you have such problems with it and yet can’t handle it not being perfect. ArenaNet was incredibly transparent with their development process. Why are you mad that you got exactly what was advertised?

Tigger.8035:

believe their fans want to play.

believe their fans want to play.

believe their fans want to play.

after the dungeon nerfs this game has become nothing but a “game on the side” for me. There’s nothing else for me to do atm. There are too many bugs for me to complete everything, and access my own main characters potential as well as other professions.

I refer you to http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/80-things-do-level-80.

Your complaining is falling on deaf ears. There are plenty of things to do. Try them.

Sure, there aren’t raids for you to do when you’re max level. But there are other things to do. Guild Wars 2 does not follow your traditional endgame formula of gearing up for Raids through dungeons and lower raiding tiers and then clearing content. This was something they told us from day 1. Guild Wars endgame is about sPvP, World vs. World, Dungeons, and World Events. We knew this.

I honestly cannot fathom why you feel like your complaints are valid if they’re not explicitly related to bugs. We all knew what we were getting when we purchased this game. Where were you on that?

You post that link on every thread. Seriously, 90% of those things are just getting achievements. He just lists all the achievements to unlock and you think that qualifies as something to do at 80? That’s something you can do at any level and trophy gathering is a trivial process and was implemented for the lack of reward in the game

THANK YOU OP. i come to these forums to get updates on my favourite game, yet i have to read through threads of drivel, most of which are posted by the same disillusioned, uninformed bunch. why cant u go hate on some mmorpg site forums? not here, this is for game discussion (as opposed to complaining).

Watch it. I prepurchased after watching that. Tell me now that I was wrong in expecting something else than what I’m currently playing.

And what people don’t seem to realize is… people leaving is not a good thing. If ANet is losing a lot of players, it means less players will buy gems, that means less money for ANet and Ncsoft, that means less development. Players leaving is not a good thing. You want as many people to stay as possible.

My two friends who joined me quit a week ago, they don’t even talk about GW2 at all. They just left, not a single complaint, just left. Every day I see more and more people complaining in my guild, we’re down on active players. Every day I see less and less people in Lion’s Arch. This is not the trend you want. Stop fooling yourself.

you first error was prepurchasing after watching that alone. thats their vision, their philosophy. thats what they aim for. was it delivered? in my opinion, hell yes. can it be improved upon? yes. a lot.

the people who are leaving belong to a very specific crowd of raiders and powergamers who bought this on hype alone. the population is actually nicely stabilized. those who were misinformed or impartial have left, and those who played for 300-400 hours and completed everything have also left after getting their money’s worth. to be honest, based on that same manifesto, the game does not cater to such voracious consumers.

anyway, my 3 friends who have never played MMO’s are still completely immersed, and my guild of 300 people is healthy and happily grinding their legendaries and gearing up for WvW.

Loxias.2375:

Hopefully your personal opinion will make up for lost revenue due to poor design, lack of testing and kneejerk implementation. Actually, hopefully it won’t, so that game companies will be encouraged to finish a game before selling it and advertising the game they are selling as opposed to the one they believe their fans want to play.

this is the smoothest and best MMO launch TO DATE. i need not say anything more.

Who says people didn’t research though? For me, I loved the concept of it. I like the idea of ditching the trinity, of it being about skill based instead of gear, of it being an action game maybe not as good as TERA, but action-game like nonetheless.

Maybe people like the idea and it didn’t pan out?

Do you guys really need people to go through every blog article and youtube video over the last two years and write a researched and referenced report citing exact examples of how the product they sold does not match up with everything they said it would be (especially when it comes to ideology) or can we stop making posts dismissing criticism as uninformed and ignorant of the game’s promotion? How they have designed a game which doesn’t match the design goals they said they had (particularly when it comes to grind and economy – one point I can bring up right now is they said you would naturally level crafting making things you would use and wouldn’t have to make loads of garbage you won’t need to use just so you can craft the next tier – total nonsense compared to the live experience). Or how about the line when it’s ready? Orr was clearly not ready. The number of bugs crippling the flow and gameplay of the higher levels of the game (and the plain untested status of the personal story) clearly shows the game was not ready – even giving leeway for a game launching with bugs.

I am trying to keep my posts constructive and focused on the game and the game design and the direction it seems to be taking. I was even trying to post about things the game does well, but topics like this are total garbage, spout nonsense and only serve to attack people (with untruths) who think differently from you. Do we really need to have a back and forth topic arguing the same arguments about whether they delivered what they promised, or the game is worth the money or whatever other inane argument people want to have with each other that in the end, serves no purpose to making the game any better.

Servanin.5021:

Who says people didn’t research though? For me, I loved the concept of it. I like the idea of ditching the trinity, of it being about skill based instead of gear, of it being an action game maybe not as good as TERA, but action-game like nonetheless.

Maybe people like the idea and it didn’t pan out?

maybe for those individuals. but this is different from saying “ANet didnt deliver”. because they did. yes, endgame is a little bugged right now, but far from non-existent (hi, other MMO’s on release).

You would be right, but you use that argument too much. Somebody says: “hey, a hard dungeon should reward more than killing wolves in a forrest”.
And you inmediatly say: “You only play for reward, this is not that kind of game, blabla”
(by “you” i mean ppl that use your argument, not you in particular)

No, that argument is not always valid. It is one thing talking about rewards in general, but it is just good balance that in your own game, something u can do with your eyes closed sholdnt be more rewarding than something very hard. And if somebody points that out, you don’t have to come with the same old argument like a fanatic.

I repeat, your argument is very valid, but some players use it too much in posts where it doesn’t belong.

It always happens. Within a few days they will hop to Pandaland. When the first Guild Wars 2 expansion launches they will be back. Two days after the expansion the will rant yet again “THAT’S IT?”. Never satisfied.

cdsmith.1072:

I get what you are saying Yssta.8345. So do my friends. Then again we all knew what Guild Wars 2 was going to be before we bought it. We understood that it was going to be fun centric and not gear centric.

I wouldn’t mind that at all. But where the kitten is the fun you speak of? O.o

Tajmo.1836:

It always happens. Within a few days they will hop to Pandaland. When the first Guild Wars 2 expansion launches they will be back. Two days after the expansion the will rant yet again “THAT’S IT?”. Never satisfied.

Do you ever ask yourself WHY people always return to playing WoW? That game you GW2 fan-boys hate oh-so-much?

I’ll tell you: because it’s the best MMORPG EVER released. It’s not ideal, but it’s the best game the MMORPG market has to offer. 9 years in existence and 14 million player database is what backs my statement up. What’s your argument? The fact that you don’t like it? Awesome, you should be a lawyer, your opinions would matter a lot in the court of law.

The only thing that stops me from playing WoW is the fact that I don’t feel like wasting money on monthly subscriptions. But when comparing GW2 to WoW – it’s like comparing a Yugo to a Ferrari.

Raging Bull.5048:

Tajmo.1836:

It always happens. Within a few days they will hop to Pandaland. When the first Guild Wars 2 expansion launches they will be back. Two days after the expansion the will rant yet again “THAT’S IT?”. Never satisfied.

Do you ever ask yourself WHY people always return to playing WoW? That game you GW2 fan-boys hate oh-so-much?

I’ll tell you: because it’s the best MMORPG EVER released. It’s not ideal, but it’s the best game the MMORPG market has to offer. 9 years in existence and 14 million player database is what backs my statement up. What’s your argument? The fact that you don’t like it? Awesome, you should be a lawyer, your opinions would matter a lot in the court of law.

The only thing that stops me from playing WoW is the fact that I don’t feel like wasting money on monthly subscriptions. But when comparing GW2 to WoW – it’s like comparing a Yugo to a Ferrari.

Raging, first off, hey (jbt Yugo :P)

Second… WoW is a 7 year old game. GW2 isn’t even 7 weeks.
Did you play WoW at start? I haven’t, but I’m guessing the launch wasn’t bug free, and let’s not forget that they added most of the “cool/fun” features a couple of months/years (depending on what you consider fun) after the launch.

So, why not give the benefit of the doubt to ANet?

EDIT;
People come back to WoW for the same reason people will be back to GW2. New things and friends. That’s it. It ain’t because Blizzard is doing a good job.

I’ll tell you why I came back after a 8 month break… They said they will make the game more enjoyable. They said PvP will matter. They said they will make faster “corrections” to unbalances.

Funnily enough, they did nothing of the above. But, the people who fell for it, and “worked” for gear/progression felt like they would have been wasting money to quit. So they stay. They don’t log in much, they don’t play much when they log in, but they are still there. Hoping.

A positive thing regarding this in GW2 is that you don’t have to pay while you wait.

Rock, hello yourself.

I disagree for one simple reason – I am not talking bugs. I am talking core mechanics and the general game-play.

If you build a house on the bad foundation, no matter how good you paint the walls it still fails.

Edit: I played WoW from the very start up to until 2 years ago. WoW was always thousands of light years ahead of GW2 – comparing launch-to-launch.

Raging Bull.5048:

Rock, hello yourself.

I disagree for one simple reason – I am not talking bugs. I am talking core mechanics and the general game-play.

If you build a house on the bad foundation, no matter how good you paint the walls it still fails.

Edit: I played WoW from the very start up to until 2 years ago. WoW was always thousands of light years ahead of GW2 – comparing launch-to-launch.

But it comes down to personal opinion does it not? It seems to me, from what I noticed, you’re really not satisfied with this game. Which is confusing for me because I am. Yes there are difficulties, yes there are things missing (one of the reasons I don’t PvP yet properly) but overall I find it great.

I love the downed state, I love the combos, I love the weapon swapping AND I love the choices I get in traits/skills/weapons. Hell, I have made 6 different builds so far on my Guardian. Do you know how many different builds I had on my ret in the last 2 years? 1. Since the start of Cata I didn’t change a single thing. Why? Because I didn’t need to.

About your edit… you’re kidding right? BC, WotLK and Cata launches were HORRIBLE.
As in, you had people blowing up in 2 spells (DK + Ret in WotLK), you had a paladin tanking an ENTIRE CITY alone (Cata prepatch), you had areas that were bugged/overpopulated/quests which didn’t function. Let’s not forget burst and the differences in crits.

Are you telling me that all of that (mind you, those were expansions made after YEARS of experience) was better than GW2?

There are many more examples, but I really have a bad memory and can’t write any more on the top of my head, but if you wish I’ll go search my character on the WoW forums and see all the problems there were documented and come back.

All in all, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. You find the game kitten, and I find the game great. To each their own.

But, I want you to remember, you CAN come back to GW2 in the future when they might fix what you find broken.

Can I ask an honest question of those citing how much better WOW is?

As the above post says, 9 years going, fair enough, thats a lot of add ons and development, but what was the original WOW like at launch? How much has it changed? And how much changed due to player complaints?

Personally I play GW2 because I love the casual exploring play style but thats just personal opinion, also I like shiny cosmetic things and GW2 is just plain beautiful. I couldnt play WOW because it was too much of a long grindy slog for a very casual player, again just personal.

But please, if you dont like the game just make constructive criticism of it using reasoning and examples so the game can improve, not just bash it using phrases like ‘this game is boring’ which is a purely personal opinion, and not something that you should EVER force onto someone else. Either that or just leave so you can stop putting off potential new players who might help improve my favourite game.

I agree fully with the OP, I followed this game from conception, being a GW1 player, and it is pretty close to what it says on the tin. Apart from some marketing bumff but who believes every word they hear in marketing? (I bet MoP wont look much like its trailer graphics wise, because that is every bit as misleading as the worst ArenaNet has said).

I would suggest against doing many of those things in that link at 80. Do most of them prior to 80. I didn’t and I regret it now.
For example: Tried a jumping puzzle I skipped out on yesterday. Fell… splat. No one around to rez me. ~1s40c way point. When I was done, I was out ~12s.

My fault I know, cause I"m terrible at judging distance on jumps. AND, had I been half way smart about it, I would have logged on a lowbie alt and been out maybe 2s instead. :P

Yssta.8345:

We really do. Guild Wars 2 was not what you expected. You were hoping for more. You’re disappointed. Disillusioned.

Angry.

But you know what? That’s your own fault. Not ArenaNet’s. Not NCSoft’s. Yours.

Anet lied like there was no tomorrow before the game was released. Everything from leveling up to dynamic events was pure sales hype. This game did not revolutionize anything and actually took the genre back a few steps in terms of character building/progression.

Edited by moderator: Took out the unnecessary (disrespectful) part

Actually, hopefully it won’t, so that game companies will be encouraged to finish a game before selling it

I see this complaint everywhere, over every video game forum these days, and I wonder, wtf does it even mean? What about this game is “unfinished?”

Do people these days honestly expect a game as large as this one, with 100’s of thousands of players, to be completely bug-free and perfect upon release? So the TP was down for the 1st week and you didn’t get a jump on cornering the market, boo freaking hoo.

Seriously, how high are people’s expectations today? This was the smoothest MMO launch in seemingly forever, it was orders of magnitude smoother than D3’s (and that’s not even and MMO!).

If you want a perfect game with no bugs go play Chess. It’s been perfect for over 1000 years…

DirtyHoudini.2917:

That’s something you can do at any level

This statement is true, now apply it.

You blame people for thinking it would be a sequel to GW1’s proven gameplay?

Its true, that having lots of people complain in your favorite game forum can be annoying. The fact is, you are mistaken.

People, especially us GW1 fans, expected this game to be exactly that: Guild Wars 2.
You say all about the videos and marketing from the past 2 years, but you werent here when it started. You werent here when Arenat net decided to stop supporting GW1 so it would make guild wars in a persistant world. That was the promise at the start and why this all started. They never said anything about gutting the combat and the design.
GW1 fans never considered WoW to be the best, so we never needed to want a WoW-killer. GW1 was our WoW killer.

You are saying these things, but you werent the one here. You’re just someone who joined past half way, and you think you know the whole story. Guild Wars is so much more than what is in offer in GW2. Anet went to far in trying to hype everyone and though that by trying to break with everyting and everyone that they would make a revolution just like that. Why mess with what is working? And i dont mean WoW, i mean GW1. That was working. With a persisntant world, and more PvE what a wondrous MMO we could’ve had.

Instead we got handed something i can only title “Tyria” that even 5 year olds can play sucessfully.

i was a huge GW1 player. years addicted to it. it was my first mmo. since i stopped playing it i’ve played several other mmo’s including a few months of wow. I’ve tried many many f2p wow clones since.

During the lengthy wait between gw1 and gw2 I had sort of given up on gw. I wasnt planning on playing GW2 at all. Didnt watch any video or read any hype. This game was as far from my mind as could be.

I was between games, talking to a friend trying to decide what my next game would be. She pointed out that GW2 headstart was 3 days away. I had no idea it was release time.

I bought the game and decided to give it a go. I’m loving it. All I was told ahead of time was “try not to go into it expecting a sequal to GW1. Go into it expecting a brand new game with really fun combat set in the GW world”.

thats what i got.

i think its a cool game.

i like to explore. solo i do my quest and clear maps and craft.

whatever my level sometimes i join up a party with my bro and friends, we go random into a map we never did, kicking kitten an having a blast.

eventually ill try wvwvw and pvp.

combats are fun. i need to get better… a lot of times i find myself not using all my powers cause combats are so fast!
but im getting there. now at least i use 2 weapon skillsets.
underwater, im still not fully familiarized with my second skillset.
i might also try new weapons, for the sake of knowing if the gameplay suits me.

i have 45h played. i’m level 33.

its a great “action mmo”.

my only rant is i would like the players to have more influence on the world and mechanics that promote socialization and coop play.