Guild Wars 2

Hello all, Sages here with a rather different type of post.

I wanted to give my input on some thing that has been largely talked about between me and several of my long time gw2 pals, I alone have been playing gw2 for about 12.6k hours and this has been a post i’ve been wanting to make for a long while.

In the Links below You will find the current trait system implemented into gw2 before HoT and the old trait system before HoT:

Old Gw2 Trait System:
http://imgur.com/rNcKiWZ

New Gw2 Trait System:
http://imgur.com/9VnXiC1

The trait system from HoT itself has a few issues in which i would like to point out compared to the old one:

1. The current trait system while attempting to be a bit more linear causes less build diversity and thus less enjoyable game play for some like myself who would prefer to have a more unique setup in general.
2. While the old trait system did have the flaw of giving us 300 of two different stats within each trait line, the new system was not needed to improve it. a simple removal of said stats from the trait line and a gear re-balance would have sufficed.
3. The new HoT trait system removed the need for the skillpoints to be obtained around the world and instead are now obtainable while leveling, though this might be convenient.. It doesn’t exactly make for a unique experience compared to other MMO’s. Personally i would have liked it if they added proofs of heroics to WvW for those types of players but had kept the original idea of having to earn what you got for others.
4. The new trait system also removed the ability to obtain traits through world events or other means like temples and such, this was a big upset to some one like myself because back then players would do bosses just to obtain a trait and it made for a more enjoyable experience.
5. The current trait system does not allow for certain traits to work well with others, when there was more availability back then. players were able to find traits that might work perfectly with another instead of like now when some of the traits kind of.. overlap eachother or make little to no sense in being in the same trait line.

Now with all this in mind, there is some viability to the new system as if to not look down upon the hard work of the devs for do not get me wrong, your efforts in making gw2 as amazing as it is now have not gone unnoticed:

1. The new trait system does make it easier for newer players to understand.
2. The change to the way skillpoints are obtained save a massive amount of time.
3. The removal of stats from the trait system really does help define what type of build a player is running.
4. The removal of the need to use gold to obtain traits was a very nice addition and saves gold for alot of players.
5. The current trait system did remove the old 5 trait lines we used to have and makes it much easier to build certain builds the right way, since we now only have to worry about 3 trait lines with 3 traits per tier it makes it quicker than before to get what we need to get going.

Now for my suggestions on how to improve upon things, this is going to be just a shot in the dark as it were and some might not like the idea but these are just opinions so keep that in mind:

1. While keeping the current elite specializations in game, try reverting the old trait systems back to the way they once were while locking the elite traits/utility skills behind HoT bosses like.. the some of the champs in verdant brink for example.
2. The removal of the 300 of two types of stats within the trait line was a step in the right direction, keep those stats to the gear. This is some thing i personally felt should have been done from the beginning, well done there.
3. While reverting the trait system back to the way it used to be, remove the need for gold and instead leave it optional to either buy traits/skills with skillpoints/proofs of heroics or if players so choose, defeat champs in WvW or PvE to obtain them.
4. Allow for the stacking of certain traits within a trait line since some traits actually do work very well with one another but are unable to be selected since in the same tier another trait is also needed.
5. Put some of the traits/skills behind certain types of content like dungeons/raids/zone events, this will revitalize some of the old content that has since kinda fallen behind and faded away.

I love your game Anet and i know lots of others do to, we want whats best for gw2 and at the end of the day. We will support you, but please remember to not stop listening to the communities feedback. While some of us might not be here to help, alot of us are.

Thanks for reading,
Sages

I totally agree with the general idea to try to revert back to something more like the old trait system. It was so much more fun and had so much more variables to play about with.

When you wanted to slack about for a few days it was nice to just be able to mess around for days with new build ideas. These days we are kinda forced to logoff completely and do something else because there’s not many alternative build ideas that we can play about with that can work out well in the intended game mode

PS: This topic was also on my mind lately since I’m kinda bored in game atm, and I was going to post some ideas about the good old trait system vs new trait system on these forums… but you did that for me (my laziness paid off lol ty).

Sages.3496:

The new trait system also removed the ability to obtain traits through world events or other means like temples and such, this was a big upset to some one like myself because back then players would do bosses just to obtain a trait and it made for a more enjoyable experience.

Sorry but I am so glad that crap is gone for good. Once I tried to do one of the temple events for a trait but I always logged on at the wrong time. In the end, I got impatient and bought the trait for Gold. I didn’t level alts at all because the trait system was a huge turn off…

I prefer the new traits and I hope there will be improvements in the future but I definitely don’t want any part of the old one back!

This isn’t new, it’s actually the exact opposite, it’s extremely old. I also find it amusing that you would like to bring it back to the second iteration of the trait system, because that was the version that was almost universally loathed by the populous. Locking traits behind events proved to be a terrible decision that locked some people out of even having traits they dearly wanted.

I like the design of the trait system as it currently is, I only dislike the order it is obtained. For traits and skills I don’t like having to force my way through options I have no interest in just to acquire the ones I actually want. That was what I liked about the original system, I could target the skills and traits I wanted and get those while ignoring the ones I didn’t want.

Of course with Elite Specs it doesn’t matter because in order to get the elite spec at all I have to have ever skill and trait so ultimately I’m still going to get everything.

I liked the very first system, where it unlocked at earlier levels and you didn’t need points to unlock them.

But the next version after that was horrendous, locking traits behind events was horrible; not because ‘oh you have to do an event to get it,
but because,
it wasn’t balanced level wise, and often you had to actually Fail an event to get it.
Some of them for example, some level 35 traits were in level 60 zones [to get that trait that unlocked at level 35, you (as a level 35 player) had to go to a level 60 zone and fight an event (with level 60 monsters)]. I mean that’s a huge unbalanced level-wise problem, right?

The system as of now isn’t perfect, I don’t like it as much as the very first version, but it’s definetly better than the second version, at least.

While I enjoy in games where you have to hunt for your skills/traits, I don’t want to see it return to GW2. Like @Mea said, waiting for a specific event to start is boring, not to mention having to do it again for each alt you have. Its just no fun at that point when you start to play more than 1 class. Maybe if it was limited to once per account (so it would be limited to once for each of the 9 classes), but that would still get boring quick imo.

I like your analysis of the trait system. Personally I would like to see 2 changes to the current system

• A major rebalance of every trait and traitline for every class. In my opinion no trait line, not even the elite spec, should feel mandatory to take because it is just so much better than other trait lines. Similarly, no individual trait in any traitline should feel mandatory to take if you have that traitline equipped because it outshines the other 2 traits in that tier. Similarly, no trait should be so useless or underpowered that no one ever uses it.

• The ability to pick lower tier traits. This is pretty simply really, instead of picking 1 adept, 1 master and 1 grandmaster trait we should be allowed to pick 1 adept trait, 1 master/adept trait, and 1 grandmaster/master/adept trait. To explain more, I should be able to slot a lower tier trait into a higher tier trait slot if I wanted to (but not the other way around), so I could have all 3 adept traits selected at the expense of no master/grandmaster traits, or 2 adept and a master trait, 1 adept and 2 master traits etc…. You wouldn’t be able to equip more than 1 grandmaster or more than 2 master traits under this system, but it would open up the door for so much more build variety by opening up your options for traits.

So really, 1 change to the trait system and a major rebalance and I think it would be a pretty kitten good system in general. Balancing would be made harder for ANet unfortunately since there would be many more trait options for players to take but I think this system would be for the best.

Also, this is related to changing traits, but I would like to see the elite spec implementation fundamentally changed. Instead of having an entire traitline surrounding the elite spec, I would like to see the traits removed and each elite spec have locked in functionality. Then we could get our third trait line back, and have a separate elite spec slot. This way, we would have more build diversity (since we would always have 3 core trait lines) while still being able to take elite specs if we wanted to. The elite spec would be downsized to only include skills, the minor trait effects, and possibly keep slimmed down effects from 1-2 traits in each tier (or not). It would make them easier to balance since all of their functionality would be fixed. But I realize that this is a pretty controversial change so I don’t see it ever being implemented.

12,600 hour played over a period of approximately 50 months!?!?

That is close to eight and a half hours per day, seven days per week…every day…for more than four years!

Wow.

Eh, I still say one thing anet should consider is moving from focus on specific weapon, to a class.

Such as blades, blunt, range, so at least the benefit of getting might with a critical with a sword instead of just greatsword

I’ll +1 this with the exception of the 5th suggestion. The 3rd suggestion covers all the options, allowing the player full freedom to unlock traits/skills as they please.

Granted, I would suggest a change to the 5th suggestion. Rather than locking select traits/skills behind certain events/bosses/modes, why not have those be able to unlock an entire traitline? If a player is victorious against a certain boss or challenging event, an entire Elite Specialization (for example) can be unlocked upon completion.

These can be finer tuned to things that already exist, such as being rewarded upon a story instance boss when a challenge mote is activated, making the encounter much more difficult and rewarding aside from achievement points.

Future raid encounters could also incorporate this idea as an alternate avenue aside from a story-based challenge mote with future elite specs in mind. Beat a raid with a previous elite spec or core spec and a player can fully unlock the new elite specialization by defeating a certain raid boss or entire wing.

Didn’t want to completely disregard your 5th suggestion since I felt like the idea and heart was in the right place, it just needed refinement (in my opinion).

OriOri.8724:

• The ability to pick lower tier traits. This is pretty simply really, instead of picking 1 adept, 1 master and 1 grandmaster trait we should be allowed to pick 1 adept trait, 1 master/adept trait, and 1 grandmaster/master/adept trait. To explain more, I should be able to slot a lower tier trait into a higher tier trait slot if I wanted to (but not the other way around), so I could have all 3 adept traits selected at the expense of no master/grandmaster traits, or 2 adept and a master trait, 1 adept and 2 master traits etc…. You wouldn’t be able to equip more than 1 grandmaster or more than 2 master traits under this system, but it would open up the door for so much more build variety by opening up your options for traits.

If you’re taking a low-tier trait over a higher-tier one, there’s something very wrong balance-wise. That was one of the biggest flaws of the old trait system.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If you’re taking a low-tier trait over a higher-tier one, there’s something very wrong balance-wise. That was one of the biggest flaws of the old trait system.

The choices of the old trait system was more for customization and niche builds. Granted, there were some (meta) builds that never incorporated GM traits, which was very wrong balance-wise on Anet’s part of creating GMs that had little significant impact or potency.

Not to mention, the old trait system did not have the power creep of the current one. Traits mostly provided 1 effect unless they were in the Master or GM slots. Now, we have many traits with 2 effects in all tiers, and a fair share of GM traits that do 3 effects, on top of being able to have 3 full traitlines.

Even though the old and the new versions have pros and cons (as noted by the OP), the balancing flaws are on the developers, not the system layouts.

I don’t like how most of OP’s ideas sound, but this:

OriOri.8724:

While I enjoy in games where you have to hunt for your skills/traits, I don’t want to see it return to GW2. Like @Mea said, waiting for a specific event to start is boring, not to mention having to do it again for each alt you have. Its just no fun at that point when you start to play more than 1 class. Maybe if it was limited to once per account (so it would be limited to once for each of the 9 classes), but that would still get boring quick imo.

I like your analysis of the trait system. Personally I would like to see 2 changes to the current system

• A major rebalance of every trait and traitline for every class. In my opinion no trait line, not even the elite spec, should feel mandatory to take because it is just so much better than other trait lines. Similarly, no individual trait in any traitline should feel mandatory to take if you have that traitline equipped because it outshines the other 2 traits in that tier. Similarly, no trait should be so useless or underpowered that no one ever uses it.

• The ability to pick lower tier traits. This is pretty simply really, instead of picking 1 adept, 1 master and 1 grandmaster trait we should be allowed to pick 1 adept trait, 1 master/adept trait, and 1 grandmaster/master/adept trait. To explain more, I should be able to slot a lower tier trait into a higher tier trait slot if I wanted to (but not the other way around), so I could have all 3 adept traits selected at the expense of no master/grandmaster traits, or 2 adept and a master trait, 1 adept and 2 master traits etc…. You wouldn’t be able to equip more than 1 grandmaster or more than 2 master traits under this system, but it would open up the door for so much more build variety by opening up your options for traits.

So really, 1 change to the trait system and a major rebalance and I think it would be a pretty kitten good system in general. Balancing would be made harder for ANet unfortunately since there would be many more trait options for players to take but I think this system would be for the best.

I can definitely agree with.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

OriOri.8724:

• The ability to pick lower tier traits. This is pretty simply really, instead of picking 1 adept, 1 master and 1 grandmaster trait we should be allowed to pick 1 adept trait, 1 master/adept trait, and 1 grandmaster/master/adept trait. To explain more, I should be able to slot a lower tier trait into a higher tier trait slot if I wanted to (but not the other way around), so I could have all 3 adept traits selected at the expense of no master/grandmaster traits, or 2 adept and a master trait, 1 adept and 2 master traits etc…. You wouldn’t be able to equip more than 1 grandmaster or more than 2 master traits under this system, but it would open up the door for so much more build variety by opening up your options for traits.

If you’re taking a low-tier trait over a higher-tier one, there’s something very wrong balance-wise. That was one of the biggest flaws of the old trait system.

While I do agree with you that balance wise the traits should be designed so that you always want to to take 1 trait from each tier, allowing you to “downtrait” just opens up the door for more customization. And more customization is not a bad thing with our current trait system; I feel that it has very little customization at the moment due to how many choices are pre made for us (can only use traits from 3 lines at once, can only use 1 trait from each tier).

Taking mesmer as an example – If I wanted a build that had lots of projectile hate along with lots of condi clease, I would want to take both Warden’s Feedback and Restorative Illusions from the Inspiration line. Both are master tier traits, but considering the goal of this hypothetical build, none of the GM traits would be better for the build. Temporal Enchanter would be nice for an extended Feedback, but the extra uptime from that trait would pale in comparison to the reflect uptime I could get with Warden’s Feedback. The ability to downtrait would do nothing except allow for much more customization in builds.

Besides, considering how little each balance patch actually changes, it will be a long while before each class has good options for all of their grandmaster and master traits.