Guild Wars 2

Crab brawl and now this sprint-two minigames with such types of achievements and what do people do? Form a gentleman’s agreement that everyone gets first place or w/e competitive requirement is needed for an achievement, rendering your new title utterly pointless as it doesn’t speak to your ability in the game…so I ask you is this not defeating the whole point?

New Player: Oh nice, how’d you get that title?
Player: First place in a minigame
New Player: Was it hard/fun?
Player: idk-everyone took turns getting first place
New Player: ok…..-__-

….Sounds silly doesn’t it?
Don’t get me wrong-it’s good to see players willing to help other players, but in this case it runs counter-productive to achievements (as you haven’t actually achieved anything). Things like top 3 scorers and use x skills (depending on the mechanics of the game)are fine-each player has to actually play and get better at the game and no bypassing the minigame to get the achievement. Admittedly you can still bypass with the latter achievement, however if you decide to do it it would be you and your partner in crime-the rest of the players need not be involved. Let us look at other multiplayer games with rewards (i.e. all of them)-do you ask everyone in nfs/cod/halo/lol/dota to let you win? How about sf4 or sc2-do you ask your opponents to let you win to progress to the next rank? No, no, no,no and no-every win is done by your own skill and achievements such as ranks or aesthetics unlocked are done by your skill and your skill alone.

I realize gamers these days always want a pat on the head for anything they do-in this case the chest system in the sprint works fine. Top 3 players get better (but not exclusive loot-basically just increased loot tables) chests than those who finish outside the bracket. That way even if you’re not particularly good at the minigame you still have a chance at getting that item you want through perseverance (you’re either skilled and complete in less time and get better rewards or not so skilled and take longer to do it…seems fair to me). This way people who want a particular item (they obviously aren’t doing it because they find the minigame fun-just chasing the achievement for a meta or a title) will get what they want and people who want to have competitive fun w/the minigame will get what they want. They would sign in, play x games, use x skills, get title that says ‘sprint addict’ or ‘aspect spammer’ for their efforts then leave in search of another achievement while others who like the game would stay, have fun knocking each other senseless and get a bit of gold/loot for doing so.

This is why I feel ‘first place’, ‘top 3’, ‘last standing’ type of achievements should be removed from minigames-give innately ubiquitous titles/achievements for minigames to satisfy those who only play it for that reason so they won’t have to circumvent your system (and annoy other players in the process)to turn make those achievements ubiquitous.

Opinions?

Well, people could always try earning them. I am mixed though. I EARNED all my crab toss achievements. I won my second game ever, I got crabtacular (by luck I admit) on my 4th. After that I just needed the oens for points and stuff, but I had gotten good, and won many times…to the point I was often yelled at to “give others a turn”. Though sometimes I even did try to not win…and won.

On the otherhand, I feel bad when people keep trying but just cant get it, same if it were to happen to me. I get frustratced loss after loss, which happened in Dragon Bash with Dragon Ball, that I did not earn all of those.

Saelune.5316:

On the otherhand, I feel bad when people keep trying but just cant get it, same if it were to happen to me. I get frustratced loss after loss, which happened in Dragon Bash with Dragon Ball, that I did not earn all of those.

Lol, this describes the story of my life. They say practice makes perfect, but no…no it doesn’t. chuckle In some cases practice simple equates to mounting frustration.

Adding increased rewards to first place could motivate people to be more competitive.

Apart from that just keep the system as is, the people who really earned the title will know it, and everyone else will be slowly eaten away on the inside by all-consuming guilt.

Crimsony.2514:

Adding increased rewards to first place could motivate people to be more competitive.

Apart from that just keep the system as is, the people who really earned the title will know it, and everyone else will be slowly eaten away on the inside by all-consuming guilt.

This sort of assumes that people aren’t being competitive already, or that all those that haven’t achieved it are ‘bad’ on a skill based level. Neither of which is necessarily true.

Ex1: Some people may never achieve it due to connection issues, which they have absolutely no control over.

Ex2: There are some that won’t bother with the mini-game and could care less about that achievement. Has nothing to do with their skill, its just not their thing.

See what I mean?

Imbune.5497:

Let us look at other multiplayer games with rewards (i.e. all of them)-do you ask everyone in nfs/cod/halo/lol/dota to let you win? How about sf4 or sc2-do you ask your opponents to let you win to progress to the next rank? No, no, no,no and no-every win is done by your own skill and achievements such as ranks or aesthetics unlocked are done by your skill and your skill alone.

fyi, win trading exists in any game and sometimes they get paid for it for compensation. Head shot trading in shooters for example was common and was also bannable on ranked servers.

But usually, in order for someone to win in those games, the other team has to take a loss, which will negatively affect their rating, brining them down. Without compensation, no one’s going to just let someone do that, unless they wanted to be down ranked.

Instead of 1st achievements, they should go with a high score. For example, for the sprint, the achievement should be for completing it in under X minutes. Or, they could just leave it as is and also award “1st place” to anyone else within X%. For example, if 2nd place comes in a few seconds after 1st, they should both count as winning (though in this case, the traders would want everyone to walk across the finish line in a ball).

lol, i don’t know if it still happened but i won my race beating other players and maybe by luck, with no shortcut or what so ever, but i stayed in the race over and over for the other achievement that require you to complete 25 races, after a while i was the only one in the race, so i could have beat the achievement any moment if i hadn’t already.
all of this to say that that achievement is not necessarily skill based but also luck based or time based, and i see no point to not let win someone that ask me too to do it, even though i don’t ask for it.
i don’t care if people think i’m skilled or not anyhow it is really the last of my concern

What if they only gave a title for winning first but no achievement points? Also not have the first place achievement count towards the meta. This way the players that are not as skilled or the players that do not care for the game can play to get the non-skill based achievements and not worry about winning. After they get their achievements the game would be left with the players that enjoy playing the mini game and could compete for the title.

I received first place fair and square in both crab toss and sanctum sprint. I don’t like these “gentleman” agreements because they take the achievement out of getting first place. There are certain tactics you must employ to getting first, and the sooner you figure them out in the release the more often you’ll win.

as i said you can win also because you are the only one there… so the entire point of being first is stupid

I got my 1st fairly easily and fast. All it takes is falling behind to like 7nd, getting the 0th ability and porting trough the longest checkpoint. Afterwards every time when I would end up the 1st one to the finish like I would let 3 people get trough and then cross it. I already got my achievement and they’re trying hard, why would I not allow it?
Plus the race is not very hard and you can get the achievement by simply waiting for everyone to leave.

I see some people have misunderstood the points I was making; it’s not a matter of allowing or not allowing people to win. People who are ‘merciful’ and allow others to win think they are the holy paladins of justice; people who say ‘win on your own strength’ think they’re uber hardcore with l33t skills…and the name calling, insults and childish behaviour begins. That is to say, this causes a divide and hinders the enjoyment of everyone involved-and this occurs simply because people want first place for that achievement, ergo, remove the source and the effect vanishes.

Which brings up achievements. What is the definition of achievement? What key words are used:‘special effort’, ‘accomplishment’, ‘challenge’…sounds about right? So how then can you call something an achievement in having it handed to you? As a matter of face the ‘special effort’ is made by the other players who made you win-they’re the ones who should get the ‘good samaritan’ achievement.

These people don’t care about the minigame but facilitate a practice that divides the player base and trivializes the very thing they set out to get. They only care about getting that achievement to get something else-so why not give achievements that facilitate that mindset WITHOUT dividing the community or trivializing the very rewards?

@Crimsony…..guilt? In the online populace? I like your optimism and faith in this generation

Healix.5819:

Imbune.5497:

Let us look at other multiplayer games with rewards (i.e. all of them)-do you ask everyone in nfs/cod/halo/lol/dota to let you win? How about sf4 or sc2-do you ask your opponents to let you win to progress to the next rank? No, no, no,no and no-every win is done by your own skill and achievements such as ranks or aesthetics unlocked are done by your skill and your skill alone.

fyi, win trading exists in any game and sometimes they get paid for it for compensation. Head shot trading in shooters for example was common and was also bannable on ranked servers.

But usually, in order for someone to win in those games, the other team has to take a loss, which will negatively affect their rating, brining them down. Without compensation, no one’s going to just let someone do that, unless they wanted to be down ranked.

Instead of 1st achievements, they should go with a high score. For example, for the sprint, the achievement should be for completing it in under X minutes. Or, they could just leave it as is and also award “1st place” to anyone else within X%. For example, if 2nd place comes in a few seconds after 1st, they should both count as winning (though in this case, the traders would want everyone to walk across the finish line in a ball).

Well yes, true (and your ideas are intriguing imo) but the sentiment I wanted to get across is doing such things in those titles are seen as cheating, in poor taste and universally frowned upon. Granted, as you pointed out there are other factors that makes throwing a game in such titles not an act of charity (the ‘winner’ usually has to pay for that victory) as opposed to letting someone win in the minigame but either way it diminished the meaning and worth of ‘winning’.

You know after re-reading I really like that timed achievement idea-preferably discrete instances rather than tiers so players can be rewarded for you know…actually achieving something while simultaneously not make it equate to ‘you must get 1st place to get this time’

Okay so what about people who aren’t fortunate enough to live in the US and are starting with a ping handicap from moment one? Those people should never get first place? Sure some people have rock solid Internet connection. But some have better video cards, some have older systems, some of us, like me, live in Tasmania.

Crab Toss was a whole lot harder for me than you.

In a competitive arena, everyone starts on the same foot…but I’m not on the same foot. Even on a normal day, I’m a half second behind people in the US who live close to the server.

This isn’t the olympics. You’re not winning world wide notoriety here. You’re getting a title that means NOTHING.

In Guild Wars 1, there was a title you could get for finishing every mission. And people would pay gold to be run through missions so they didn’t have to play them at all.

It’s not like this stuff is going on your resume. Why are you so against people having fun? You mean your “title” won’t be worth as much?

I hate to say it, but in a hundred years, I’m pretty sure no one will remember that you got first place in Crab Toss.

I wouldn’t worry about it so much. There is a good chance that in the end this achi will get canned like they did with most of the competative temporary achies like dragon ball; bells and even crabtoss got tossed out the window. Chances are the same thing will happen to the current one.

I agree with the sentiments in this thread that the achievement can be gained in totally arbitrary ways that either the developers did not forsee (I think they have more faith in the playerbase than anyone), or did not seem overly concerned about (plenty of achievements to be had to reach the end goal of this set of content.)

I am more concerned about the constant inclusion of mini-games linked to achievements/rewards at all.

If the devs seem hell-bent on including “Nintendo-style” mini games and jump puzzles required to reach “mainstream” content, then it ought to be included as “fun for fun’s sake” only. Leaving all of it optional for players without regard to impact. Or a player’s ability to participate (see: technical connection / server issues that have existed since release.)

Although I understand there many fans of this style content,

-Not of fan of MiniMORequiredtoPlayGame.