Guild Wars 2

digiowl.9620:

Leamas.5803:

As Hrouda implies, the short of it is that there should be no build possible that allows anyone to stand there and get hacked on without any chance of risk.

If only the game actually accounted for that. Just now i finished a personal story mission that played out inside a narrow cave stuffed with risen grub. Movement? Yea right, up or down the tunnel only. With the end result that i would trip the leash limit on the grubs fairly quickly, resetting the fight to square one. Never mind that the grubs put down lingering AOE.

Movement is all well and good, WHEN YOU ARE ACTUALLY GIVEN ROOM TO MOVE!

Don’t worry, when you have experienced the full onslaught of the Dredge Fractal you will know the true meaning of your words.

Fortuna.7259:

digiowl.9620:

Leamas.5803:

As Hrouda implies, the short of it is that there should be no build possible that allows anyone to stand there and get hacked on without any chance of risk.

If only the game actually accounted for that. Just now i finished a personal story mission that played out inside a narrow cave stuffed with risen grub. Movement? Yea right, up or down the tunnel only. With the end result that i would trip the leash limit on the grubs fairly quickly, resetting the fight to square one. Never mind that the grubs put down lingering AOE.

Movement is all well and good, WHEN YOU ARE ACTUALLY GIVEN ROOM TO MOVE!

Don’t worry, when you have experienced the full onslaught of the Dredge Fractal you will know the true meaning of your words.

I don’t know if the dungeon dev who nerfed the food is the same dev that does fractals.

Fortuna.7259:

digiowl.9620:

Leamas.5803:

As Hrouda implies, the short of it is that there should be no build possible that allows anyone to stand there and get hacked on without any chance of risk.

If only the game actually accounted for that. Just now i finished a personal story mission that played out inside a narrow cave stuffed with risen grub. Movement? Yea right, up or down the tunnel only. With the end result that i would trip the leash limit on the grubs fairly quickly, resetting the fight to square one. Never mind that the grubs put down lingering AOE.

Movement is all well and good, WHEN YOU ARE ACTUALLY GIVEN ROOM TO MOVE!

Don’t worry, when you have experienced the full onslaught of the Dredge Fractal you will know the true meaning of your words.

With the resent event scaling changes i am not sure you need to go to fractals to experience that. Where previously i have found the dredge attack at the west end of Snowden Drifts (Podaga Steading) manageable solo, today i found that i could make no headway what so ever.

The dredge there took so long to kill that i would find the turret of theirs respawning behind my back before i reached the first tunnel support. And no, the event is not flagged as a group event.

Fortuna.7259:

Don’t worry, when you have experienced the full onslaught of the Dredge Fractal you will know the true meaning of your words.

I do Fractals fine without food or any consumables.

Screaming Cantaloupe.2308:

Fortuna.7259:

Don’t worry, when you have experienced the full onslaught of the Dredge Fractal you will know the true meaning of your words.

I do Fractals fine without food or any consumables.

Looking at your history, looks like your a ranger who uses range, and your not in melee.

This change hurt people who melee, it had little to no effect on players who ranged.

Daecollo.9578:

Screaming Cantaloupe.2308:

Fortuna.7259:

Don’t worry, when you have experienced the full onslaught of the Dredge Fractal you will know the true meaning of your words.

I do Fractals fine without food or any consumables.

Looking at your history, looks like your a ranger who uses range, and your not in melee.

This change hurt people who melee, it had little to no effect on players who ranged.

I play on my Guardian. The only high level character I have, every other character is lvl 20 (or so). Your guessing game is wrong.

Screaming Cantaloupe.2308:

Daecollo.9578:

Screaming Cantaloupe.2308:

Fortuna.7259:

Don’t worry, when you have experienced the full onslaught of the Dredge Fractal you will know the true meaning of your words.

I do Fractals fine without food or any consumables.

Looking at your history, looks like your a ranger who uses range, and your not in melee.

This change hurt people who melee, it had little to no effect on players who ranged.

I play on my Guardian. The only high level character I have, every other character is lvl 20 (or so). Your guessing game is wrong.

Guardians haven’t been hit that hard with nerfs, there attacks were slow anyways and they have viable alternatives. Warriors do not, we don’t have good sustain.

Imho, if the problem was about people using fast multiple hit skills or aoe to easily replenish their hp, what they could have done was to cap the number of activations on a short time frame. Something like max 3 activations every 2 seconds or something like that.
As it is now, the food is as useless as the sigil.
And squisher classes like the engineer get heavily hit by a drastic change like this. We haven’t got the mobility of the other medium or light classes, but neither the resistance of the heavy classes, and yet many skills require us to go near melee range. Using those foods partially offsetted the damage we took, but we would die anyway if enemies focused on us. As things stand now, we would do better avoid using any melee skill and staying at range, cause they aren’t effective enough anyway for the risks we must take.

Screaming Cantaloupe.2308:

Daecollo.9578:

Screaming Cantaloupe.2308:

Fortuna.7259:

Don’t worry, when you have experienced the full onslaught of the Dredge Fractal you will know the true meaning of your words.

I do Fractals fine without food or any consumables.

Looking at your history, looks like your a ranger who uses range, and your not in melee.

This change hurt people who melee, it had little to no effect on players who ranged.

I play on my Guardian. The only high level character I have, every other character is lvl 20 (or so). Your guessing game is wrong.

A Guardian boasting he doesn’t need healing food… Yeah, we know… read the thread. Also, we were discussing how limiting movement in this game hampers defense. The dredge fractal is pretty much the penultimate example.

Manuhell.2759:

Imho, if the problem was about people using fast multiple hit skills or aoe to easily replenish their hp, what they could have done was to cap the number of activations on a short time frame. Something like max 3 activations every 2 seconds or something like that.
As it is now, the food is as useless as the sigil.
And squisher classes like the engineer get heavily hit by a drastic change like this. We haven’t got the mobility of the other medium or light classes, but neither the resistance of the heavy classes, and yet many skills require us to go near melee range. Using those foods partially offsetted the damage we took, but we would die anyway if enemies focused on us. As things stand now, we would do better avoid using any melee skill and staying at range, cause they aren’t effective enough anyway for the risks we must take.

That is what I suggested, allow it to be able to proc 3 times every second, this would make it good without COMPLETELY destroying it.

I also think Rune of Vampirism/Sigil of Blood should be revamped as well…

Mhmm.

I used to play without those foods because I was cheap and didn’t want to spend money on them.

Then my friend told me of Omnoms and they kept urging me to use it because it’ll make me stronger.

I was already “strong”, but those food buffs made me somewhat overpowered :P, especially in dense areas where I can spam AOEs and heal like there’s no tomorrow.

Food isn’t “necessary” for a build. At least it shouldn’t be. It’s more of a luxury…

But seriously, who used these food buffs without thinking that they’re going to be nerfed one day? My friend used it for months and he’s been saying for months that he feels like a nerf is coming to his omnoms LOL.

kenshinakh.3672:

Mhmm.

I used to play without those foods because I was cheap and didn’t want to spend money on them.

Then my friend told me of Omnoms and they kept urging me to use it because it’ll make me stronger.

I was already “strong”, but those food buffs made me somewhat overpowered :P, especially in dense areas where I can spam AOEs and heal like there’s no tomorrow.

Food isn’t “necessary” for a build. At least it shouldn’t be. It’s more of a luxury…

But seriously, who used these food buffs without thinking that they’re going to be nerfed one day? My friend used it for months and he’s been saying for months that he feels like a nerf is coming to his omnoms LOL.

From your posts I guess you play a thief, I play one as well and used S/P with the food, not a back-stab one. S/P’s Pistol Whip was nerfed significantly in survivability and damage due to the changes, and now i’m back to backstabbing like everyone else. Cookie Cutter indeed.

The Omnom changes didn’t effect Backstab thieves at all because they don’t hit much anyways. They hit slow and hard.

Daecollo.9578:

kenshinakh.3672:

Mhmm.

I used to play without those foods because I was cheap and didn’t want to spend money on them.

Then my friend told me of Omnoms and they kept urging me to use it because it’ll make me stronger.

I was already “strong”, but those food buffs made me somewhat overpowered :P, especially in dense areas where I can spam AOEs and heal like there’s no tomorrow.

Food isn’t “necessary” for a build. At least it shouldn’t be. It’s more of a luxury…

But seriously, who used these food buffs without thinking that they’re going to be nerfed one day? My friend used it for months and he’s been saying for months that he feels like a nerf is coming to his omnoms LOL.

From your posts I guess you play a thief, I play one as well and used S/P with the food, not a back-stab one. S/P’s Pistol Whip was nerfed significantly in survivability and damage due to the changes, and now i’m back to backstabbing like everyone else. Cookie Cutter indeed.

The Omnom changes didn’t effect Backstab thieves at all because they don’t hit much anyways. They hit slow and hard.

Everyone else? My thief with S/D, Shortbow and DB builds disagrees.

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

kenshinakh.3672:

Mhmm.

I used to play without those foods because I was cheap and didn’t want to spend money on them.

Then my friend told me of Omnoms and they kept urging me to use it because it’ll make me stronger.

I was already “strong”, but those food buffs made me somewhat overpowered :P, especially in dense areas where I can spam AOEs and heal like there’s no tomorrow.

Food isn’t “necessary” for a build. At least it shouldn’t be. It’s more of a luxury…

But seriously, who used these food buffs without thinking that they’re going to be nerfed one day? My friend used it for months and he’s been saying for months that he feels like a nerf is coming to his omnoms LOL.

From your posts I guess you play a thief, I play one as well and used S/P with the food, not a back-stab one. S/P’s Pistol Whip was nerfed significantly in survivability and damage due to the changes, and now i’m back to backstabbing like everyone else. Cookie Cutter indeed.

The Omnom changes didn’t effect Backstab thieves at all because they don’t hit much anyways. They hit slow and hard.

Everyone else? My thief with S/D, Shortbow and DB builds disagrees.

S/P and S/D are completely different playstyles, S/D hits as slow as the back stab build…

Daecollo.9578:

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

kenshinakh.3672:

Mhmm.

I used to play without those foods because I was cheap and didn’t want to spend money on them.

Then my friend told me of Omnoms and they kept urging me to use it because it’ll make me stronger.

I was already “strong”, but those food buffs made me somewhat overpowered :P, especially in dense areas where I can spam AOEs and heal like there’s no tomorrow.

Food isn’t “necessary” for a build. At least it shouldn’t be. It’s more of a luxury…

But seriously, who used these food buffs without thinking that they’re going to be nerfed one day? My friend used it for months and he’s been saying for months that he feels like a nerf is coming to his omnoms LOL.

From your posts I guess you play a thief, I play one as well and used S/P with the food, not a back-stab one. S/P’s Pistol Whip was nerfed significantly in survivability and damage due to the changes, and now i’m back to backstabbing like everyone else. Cookie Cutter indeed.

The Omnom changes didn’t effect Backstab thieves at all because they don’t hit much anyways. They hit slow and hard.

Everyone else? My thief with S/D, Shortbow and DB builds disagrees.

S/P and S/D are completely different playstyles, S/D hits as slow as the back stab build…

And at what point in my statement did I say they weren’t different playstyles? Besides, S/D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D/D non-condi in any situation with a decent-sized pack.

What I’m trying to say is that just because you only seemed to find S/P and backstab suitable doesn’t mean that’s the universal truth. If you’re happy with staying with cookie cutter setups, then hey, I can’t stop you.

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

kenshinakh.3672:

Mhmm.

I used to play without those foods because I was cheap and didn’t want to spend money on them.

Then my friend told me of Omnoms and they kept urging me to use it because it’ll make me stronger.

I was already “strong”, but those food buffs made me somewhat overpowered :P, especially in dense areas where I can spam AOEs and heal like there’s no tomorrow.

Food isn’t “necessary” for a build. At least it shouldn’t be. It’s more of a luxury…

But seriously, who used these food buffs without thinking that they’re going to be nerfed one day? My friend used it for months and he’s been saying for months that he feels like a nerf is coming to his omnoms LOL.

From your posts I guess you play a thief, I play one as well and used S/P with the food, not a back-stab one. S/P’s Pistol Whip was nerfed significantly in survivability and damage due to the changes, and now i’m back to backstabbing like everyone else. Cookie Cutter indeed.

The Omnom changes didn’t effect Backstab thieves at all because they don’t hit much anyways. They hit slow and hard.

Everyone else? My thief with S/D, Shortbow and DB builds disagrees.

S/P and S/D are completely different playstyles, S/D hits as slow as the back stab build…

And at what point in my statement did I say they weren’t different playstyles? Besides, S/D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D/D non-condi in any situation with a decent-sized pack.

What I’m trying to say is that just because you only seemed to find S/P and backstab suitable doesn’t mean that’s the truth.

Congradulations! You enjoy playing with one of the most unpredictable and broken tracking skills in the game, grats if you make that gimmicky thing work and I feel for you if your awesome S/D-ness! :>

On my warrior, I added some knights pieces and I know swap to axe/shield in dungeons where I know I need to have some more defense instead of my usual axe/mace.

Daecollo.9578:

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

kenshinakh.3672:

Mhmm.

I used to play without those foods because I was cheap and didn’t want to spend money on them.

Then my friend told me of Omnoms and they kept urging me to use it because it’ll make me stronger.

I was already “strong”, but those food buffs made me somewhat overpowered :P, especially in dense areas where I can spam AOEs and heal like there’s no tomorrow.

Food isn’t “necessary” for a build. At least it shouldn’t be. It’s more of a luxury…

But seriously, who used these food buffs without thinking that they’re going to be nerfed one day? My friend used it for months and he’s been saying for months that he feels like a nerf is coming to his omnoms LOL.

From your posts I guess you play a thief, I play one as well and used S/P with the food, not a back-stab one. S/P’s Pistol Whip was nerfed significantly in survivability and damage due to the changes, and now i’m back to backstabbing like everyone else. Cookie Cutter indeed.

The Omnom changes didn’t effect Backstab thieves at all because they don’t hit much anyways. They hit slow and hard.

Everyone else? My thief with S/D, Shortbow and DB builds disagrees.

S/P and S/D are completely different playstyles, S/D hits as slow as the back stab build…

And at what point in my statement did I say they weren’t different playstyles? Besides, S/D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D/D non-condi in any situation with a decent-sized pack.

What I’m trying to say is that just because you only seemed to find S/P and backstab suitable doesn’t mean that’s the truth.

Congradulations! You enjoy playing with one of the most unpredictable and broken tracking skills in the game, grats if you make that gimmicky thing work and I feel for you if your awesome S/D-ness! :>

I assume you’re talking about Flanking Strike, which I rarely use, and it works fine and as described when I do use it. Nevermind the cleave, chain-daze, shadowstep/cleanse mobility, synergy with stealth traits for control elements eg. blind from C+D -> daze and all that. Nope, let’s just concentrate on one rarely-useful skill and feel bitter about it all day long.

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

Auesis.7301:

Daecollo.9578:

kenshinakh.3672:

Mhmm.

I used to play without those foods because I was cheap and didn’t want to spend money on them.

Then my friend told me of Omnoms and they kept urging me to use it because it’ll make me stronger.

I was already “strong”, but those food buffs made me somewhat overpowered :P, especially in dense areas where I can spam AOEs and heal like there’s no tomorrow.

Food isn’t “necessary” for a build. At least it shouldn’t be. It’s more of a luxury…

But seriously, who used these food buffs without thinking that they’re going to be nerfed one day? My friend used it for months and he’s been saying for months that he feels like a nerf is coming to his omnoms LOL.

From your posts I guess you play a thief, I play one as well and used S/P with the food, not a back-stab one. S/P’s Pistol Whip was nerfed significantly in survivability and damage due to the changes, and now i’m back to backstabbing like everyone else. Cookie Cutter indeed.

The Omnom changes didn’t effect Backstab thieves at all because they don’t hit much anyways. They hit slow and hard.

Everyone else? My thief with S/D, Shortbow and DB builds disagrees.

S/P and S/D are completely different playstyles, S/D hits as slow as the back stab build…

And at what point in my statement did I say they weren’t different playstyles? Besides, S/D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D/D non-condi in any situation with a decent-sized pack.

What I’m trying to say is that just because you only seemed to find S/P and backstab suitable doesn’t mean that’s the truth.

Congradulations! You enjoy playing with one of the most unpredictable and broken tracking skills in the game, grats if you make that gimmicky thing work and I feel for you if your awesome S/D-ness! :>

I assume you’re talking about Flanking Strike, which I rarely use, and it works fine and as described when I do use it. Nevermind the cleave, chain-daze, shadowstep/cleanse mobility, synergy with stealth traits eg. blind from C+D -> daze and all that. Nope, let’s just concentrate on one rarely-useful skill and feel bitter about it all day long.

That is what I do best!

Tommyknocker.6089:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Well, time for me to throw my necro vamp build in the trash since they refuse to let it scale with healing power. The pie was the only way I could make it work, now I might as well not even be using the pie anymore. I now have zero ways to make that build more viable. Ninja nerfs fml.

Well after being level 80 for many months now I’m not going to do something as drastic as throwing out mine. I will be redoing a few traits and switch to using scepter/dagger just like every other necro out there. Way to make us have “many viable choices” when as a necro you have only two right now (MM and condi). The MM (minion master) must rely on a buggy AI so it doesn’t really count and your bleed stack at 25 so the condi necro isn’t really useful with others bleed builds in the party either. So instead of taking away the instant heal of some classes you have in essance nerfed the living kitten out of one of the only builds us necros have for party play.

In the future maybe think this out more as these nerfs have consequences far beyond the “instant heal” of some classes. If you had given a boost to vitality/healing to certain professions along with this chance it would have be warranted as we would be at status quo, but now… what a waste of the corrupted daggers I made…

I never said I was throwing out my necro are you high? LOL. No, just can’t run the vamp build anymore. Which for my playstyle anyway, was one of the most fun builds necro has but sadly for it to be viable (since they won’t let the siphons scale with healing power) you had to use the pies and now it takes a huge chunk out of the healing to the point there’s no reason to run this build anymore. Time to dust off the scepter and roll condimancer I guess.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I never said I was throwing out my necro are you high? LOL. No, just can’t run the vamp build anymore. Which for my playstyle anyway, was one of the most fun builds necro has but sadly for it to be viable (since they won’t let the siphons scale with healing power) you had to use the pies and now it takes a huge chunk out of the healing to the point there’s no reason to run this build anymore. Time to dust off the scepter and roll condimancer I guess.

I was referring to throwing out the build, however I can see that i worded it badly. After the cost of the daggers though even throwing out the build is foolish for me and I will instead suffer the loss for the time being using instead mango pies. Mind you I’ll most likely save the coin for a good looking scepter to go with one of my daggers so if they decide to nerf us further I will at least have an alternative.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I never said I was throwing out my necro are you high? LOL. No, just can’t run the vamp build anymore. Which for my playstyle anyway, was one of the most fun builds necro has but sadly for it to be viable (since they won’t let the siphons scale with healing power) you had to use the pies and now it takes a huge chunk out of the healing to the point there’s no reason to run this build anymore. Time to dust off the scepter and roll condimancer I guess.

I was referring to throwing out the build, however I can see that i worded it badly. After the cost of the daggers though even throwing out the build is foolish for me and I will instead suffer the loss for the time being using instead mango pies. Mind you I’ll most likely save the coin for a good looking scepter to go with one of my daggers so if they decide to nerf us further I will at least have an alternative.

Fair enough, Im not gonna throw out my daggers either though because they still work great as a LF builder. Just sad they killed (at least the dagger version) vamp build. At least the minion one works fairly well now with the new update, and no lifesteal foods needed because it won’t affect the minions anyway.

Fortuna.7259:

A Guardian boasting he doesn’t need healing food… Yeah, we know… read the thread. Also, we were discussing how limiting movement in this game hampers defense. The dredge fractal is pretty much the penultimate example.

Yes I did read thread. If your build requires food then it’s pretty much you depend on food and not on skill.

Daecollo.9578:

Guardians haven’t been hit that hard with nerfs, there attacks were slow anyways and they have viable alternatives. Warriors do not, we don’t have good sustain.

Sounds like you assume everyone by post history and say what class you assume they place and complain so and so. How about not play glass cannon. Glass cannon is a risk with no defense.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I never said I was throwing out my necro are you high? LOL. No, just can’t run the vamp build anymore. Which for my playstyle anyway, was one of the most fun builds necro has but sadly for it to be viable (since they won’t let the siphons scale with healing power) you had to use the pies and now it takes a huge chunk out of the healing to the point there’s no reason to run this build anymore. Time to dust off the scepter and roll condimancer I guess.

I was referring to throwing out the build, however I can see that i worded it badly. After the cost of the daggers though even throwing out the build is foolish for me and I will instead suffer the loss for the time being using instead mango pies. Mind you I’ll most likely save the coin for a good looking scepter to go with one of my daggers so if they decide to nerf us further I will at least have an alternative.

Fair enough, Im not gonna throw out my daggers either though because they still work great as a LF builder. Just sad they killed (at least the dagger version) vamp build. At least the minion one works fairly well now with the new update, and no lifesteal foods needed because it won’t affect the minions anyway.

The vamp build was still born and pie only acted as attempted life support.

Honestly this game is so tilted towards player “skill” regarding defense that it has become a mess for anyone that can’t hit the dodge button the split second a red circle appears.

digiowl.9620:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I never said I was throwing out my necro are you high? LOL. No, just can’t run the vamp build anymore. Which for my playstyle anyway, was one of the most fun builds necro has but sadly for it to be viable (since they won’t let the siphons scale with healing power) you had to use the pies and now it takes a huge chunk out of the healing to the point there’s no reason to run this build anymore. Time to dust off the scepter and roll condimancer I guess.

I was referring to throwing out the build, however I can see that i worded it badly. After the cost of the daggers though even throwing out the build is foolish for me and I will instead suffer the loss for the time being using instead mango pies. Mind you I’ll most likely save the coin for a good looking scepter to go with one of my daggers so if they decide to nerf us further I will at least have an alternative.

Fair enough, Im not gonna throw out my daggers either though because they still work great as a LF builder. Just sad they killed (at least the dagger version) vamp build. At least the minion one works fairly well now with the new update, and no lifesteal foods needed because it won’t affect the minions anyway.

The vamp build was still born and pie only acted as attempted life support.

Honestly this game is so tilted towards player “skill” regarding defense that it has become a mess for anyone that can’t hit the dodge button the split second a red circle appears.

Unlike Guardians, there “Is” not way a warrior can sustain in melee combat without the food, it doesn’t matter if we are in soldiers, knights or berserker’s gear, we don’t have the boons or the heals or the tools to survive in melee, we rely on other classes to help us, and the food.

I will make a quick guardian build that can sustain itself without food easilly, because guardian was made from the ground up “correctly” to be able to sustain itself.

Warrior doesn’t have the heals, the boons, or the protection to sustain in melee without help.

When you reach a certain point in toughness, it stops mattering as much, and thats around 50%.

Daecollo.9578:

Unlike Guardians, there “Is” not way a warrior can sustain in melee combat without the food, it doesn’t matter if we are in soldiers, knights or berserker’s gear, we don’t have the boons or the heals or the tools to survive in melee, we rely on other classes to help us, and the food.

I will make a quick guardian build that can sustain itself without food easilly, because guardian was made from the ground up “correctly” to be able to sustain itself.

Warrior doesn’t have the heals, the boons, or the protection to sustain in melee without help.

This isn’t true. A cleric’s shout heal build can sustain melee combat under fairly brutal conditions (obviously there are limits such as high-level fractals). Still, other builds are going to depend on aid to sustain melee in many circumstances.

Fortuna.7259:

Daecollo.9578:

Unlike Guardians, there “Is” not way a warrior can sustain in melee combat without the food, it doesn’t matter if we are in soldiers, knights or berserker’s gear, we don’t have the boons or the heals or the tools to survive in melee, we rely on other classes to help us, and the food.

I will make a quick guardian build that can sustain itself without food easilly, because guardian was made from the ground up “correctly” to be able to sustain itself.

Warrior doesn’t have the heals, the boons, or the protection to sustain in melee without help.

This isn’t true. A cleric’s shout heal build can sustain melee combat under fairly brutal conditions (obviously there are limits such as high-level fractals). Still, other builds are going to depend on aid to sustain melee in many circumstances.

Uhh.. and do way less damage and heal way less then a guardian can…. and still only have half the sustain, Warriors just don’t have any sustain, thats burst healing.

Daecollo.9578:

Fortuna.7259:

Daecollo.9578:

Unlike Guardians, there “Is” not way a warrior can sustain in melee combat without the food, it doesn’t matter if we are in soldiers, knights or berserker’s gear, we don’t have the boons or the heals or the tools to survive in melee, we rely on other classes to help us, and the food.

I will make a quick guardian build that can sustain itself without food easilly, because guardian was made from the ground up “correctly” to be able to sustain itself.

Warrior doesn’t have the heals, the boons, or the protection to sustain in melee without help.

This isn’t true. A cleric’s shout heal build can sustain melee combat under fairly brutal conditions (obviously there are limits such as high-level fractals). Still, other builds are going to depend on aid to sustain melee in many circumstances.

Uhh.. and do way less damage and heal way less then a guardian can…. and still only have half the sustain, Warriors just don’t have any sustain, thats burst healing.

Yeah, you are going to do less damage – didn’t say anything about that… As for your distinction between sustain and burst healing… I don’t see your point. You can continually heal so that you stay in melee with no chance of dying. What exactly is the issue there?

By “continually heal” you mean healing for 2.1k 3 times every 20 seconds by sacrificing almost all my DPS…

Meanwhile.. a Guardian can go full toughness tree, wield a hammer with non-healing gear, get perma-protection and even more healing, with really good DPS, especially if they mix Cavalier’s and Valkyrie gear with Knights and Ruby or Beryl Orbs.

Meanwhile.. a Guardian can go full toughness tree, wield a hammer with non-healing gear, get perma-protection and even more healing, with really good DPS, especially if they mix Cavalier’s and Valkyrie gear with Knights and Ruby or Beryl Orbs.It grants protection to yourself and your allies 4 times, so it procs Altruistic Healing for yourself 4 times, and each allie standing in the circle.

Meanwhile.. a Guardian can go full toughness tree, wield a hammer with non-healing gear, get perma-protection and even more healing, with really good DPS, especially if they mix Cavalier’s and Valkyrie gear with Knights and Ruby or Beryl Orbs.It grants protection to yourself and your allies 4 times, so it procs Altruistic Healing for yourself 4 times, and each allie standing in the circle.Altruistic Healing = 276 – 1380.
Writ of the Merciful = 428.

Meanwhile.. a Guardian can go full toughness tree, wield a hammer with non-healing gear, get perma-protection and even more healing, with really good DPS, especially if they mix Cavalier’s and Valkyrie gear with Knights and Ruby or Beryl Orbs.It grants protection to yourself and your allies 4 times, so it procs Altruistic Healing for yourself 4 times, and each allie standing in the circle.Altruistic Healing = 276 – 1380.
Writ of the Merciful = 428.All without any healing power, with healing power its a lot more.

Meanwhile.. a Guardian can go full toughness tree, wield a hammer with non-healing gear, get perma-protection and even more healing, with really good DPS, especially if they mix Cavalier’s and Valkyrie gear with Knights and Ruby or Beryl Orbs.It grants protection to yourself and your allies 4 times, so it procs Altruistic Healing for yourself 4 times, and each allie standing in the circle.Altruistic Healing = 276 – 1380.
Writ of the Merciful = 428.All without any healing power, with healing power its a lot more.So you heal at minimum every autoattack chain with hammer for 704, and gain protection for that time spent inside.

Meanwhile.. a Guardian can go full toughness tree, wield a hammer with non-healing gear, get perma-protection and even more healing, with really good DPS, especially if they mix Cavalier’s and Valkyrie gear with Knights and Ruby or Beryl Orbs.It grants protection to yourself and your allies 4 times, so it procs Altruistic Healing for yourself 4 times, and each allie standing in the circle.Altruistic Healing = 276 – 1380.
Writ of the Merciful = 428.All without any healing power, with healing power its a lot more.So you heal at minimum every autoattack chain with hammer for 704, and gain protection for that time spent inside.This isn’t even counting healing power, or all the other heals you have going, and your condition removal, and everything else guardian has available, they HAVE sustain, and Warriors do not.

Something is wrong with that post… and nothing I can do fixes it….

TL;DR: Guardian can have sustain without sacrificing damage or tankiness.

Daecollo.9578:

digiowl.9620:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I never said I was throwing out my necro are you high? LOL. No, just can’t run the vamp build anymore. Which for my playstyle anyway, was one of the most fun builds necro has but sadly for it to be viable (since they won’t let the siphons scale with healing power) you had to use the pies and now it takes a huge chunk out of the healing to the point there’s no reason to run this build anymore. Time to dust off the scepter and roll condimancer I guess.

I was referring to throwing out the build, however I can see that i worded it badly. After the cost of the daggers though even throwing out the build is foolish for me and I will instead suffer the loss for the time being using instead mango pies. Mind you I’ll most likely save the coin for a good looking scepter to go with one of my daggers so if they decide to nerf us further I will at least have an alternative.

Fair enough, Im not gonna throw out my daggers either though because they still work great as a LF builder. Just sad they killed (at least the dagger version) vamp build. At least the minion one works fairly well now with the new update, and no lifesteal foods needed because it won’t affect the minions anyway.

The vamp build was still born and pie only acted as attempted life support.

Honestly this game is so tilted towards player “skill” regarding defense that it has become a mess for anyone that can’t hit the dodge button the split second a red circle appears.

Unlike Guardians, there “Is” not way a warrior can sustain in melee combat without the food, it doesn’t matter if we are in soldiers, knights or berserker’s gear, we don’t have the boons or the heals or the tools to survive in melee, we rely on other classes to help us, and the food.

I will make a quick guardian build that can sustain itself without food easilly, because guardian was made from the ground up “correctly” to be able to sustain itself.

Warrior doesn’t have the heals, the boons, or the protection to sustain in melee without help.

When you reach a certain point in toughness, it stops mattering as much, and thats around 50%.

We both were referring to the blood magic trait line for necromancers, that have both major and minor traits that streal health. Yet they do so poor a job at it that to really make a “vampire” you need to include weapon runes and omnom pies to have something functional.

And honestly, while i would love to see every other class lifted up to guardian level of sustainability, i suspect that what we will get is guardians nerfed into the ground.

Daecollo.9578:

Something is wrong with that post… and nothing I can do fixes it….

TL;DR: Guardian can have sustain without sacrificing damage or tankiness.

Yes, we mentioned Guardian superiority earlier in the thread. Seems like you are getting worked up arguing with the choir? That doesn’t mean there isn’t a warrior build that can sustain melee now, even if the DPS isn’t great.

digiowl.9620:

And honestly, while i would love to see every other class lifted up to guardian level of sustainability, i suspect that what we will get is guardians nerfed into the ground.

Pretty much… But hey it will probably take ANET another 6 months so live gloriously while you still can!

Fortuna.7259:

digiowl.9620:

And honestly, while i would love to see every other class lifted up to guardian level of sustainability, i suspect that what we will get is guardians nerfed into the ground.

Pretty much… But hey it will probably take ANET another 6 months so live gloriously while you still can!

I can foresee a Guardian nerf in the future…

If your build is dependent upon, rather than supplemented by, food then you’ve done it wrong.

darkace.8925:

If your build is dependent upon, rather than supplemented by, food then you’ve done it wrong.

If your build depends on the developers next balance patch, then your doing it wrong.

Daecollo.9578:

darkace.8925:

If your build is dependent upon, rather than supplemented by, food then you’ve done it wrong.

If your build depends on the developers next balance patch, then your doing it wrong.

Luckily for me I had the foresight to NOT build my characters around a single skill, trait, attribute, and certainly not food.

darkace.8925:

If your build is dependent upon, rather than supplemented by, food then you’ve done it wrong.

Basically this. I used the pie as well, but it was broken as hell. The only people that dislike this change, is the people who used this foodbuff and had a huge advantage over people who might not have known of its strength.

darkace.8925:

Daecollo.9578:

darkace.8925:

If your build is dependent upon, rather than supplemented by, food then you’ve done it wrong.

If your build depends on the developers next balance patch, then your doing it wrong.

Luckily for me I had the foresight to NOT build my characters around a single skill, trait, attribute, and certainly not food.

Luckily there are cookie cutter builds anyone can fall to.

a lot of these builds were floating around, they were just as cookie cutter.

Folk.2093:

a lot of these builds were floating around, they were just as cookie cutter.

Well, lets see we probably had about 8 different viable and awesome builds for each class, now we have about 2-3, something needs to be done.

Daecollo.9578:

Folk.2093:

a lot of these builds were floating around, they were just as cookie cutter.

Well, lets see we probably had about 8 different viable and awesome builds for each class, now we have about 2-3, something needs to be done.

Why does something need to be done? Get creative with some builds and make them viable. Don’t rely on a broken consumable.

Columba.9730:

Daecollo.9578:

Folk.2093:

a lot of these builds were floating around, they were just as cookie cutter.

Well, lets see we probably had about 8 different viable and awesome builds for each class, now we have about 2-3, something needs to be done.

Why does something need to be done? Get creative with some builds and make them viable. Don’t rely on a broken consumable.

There really arn’t enough viable traits to some classes to do that, tell me… How will P/P thieves ever be viable in PvP? They won’t. (i’m saying this because your in that forum a lot.)

Daecollo.9578:

Luckily there are cookie cutter builds anyone can fall to.

The fact that so many people are complaining about this deserved nerf to life-steal food tells me there are indeed cookie cutter builds that anyone can fall back on.

darkace.8925:

Daecollo.9578:

Luckily there are cookie cutter builds anyone can fall to.

The fact that so many people are complaining about this deserved nerf to life-steal food tells me there are indeed cookie cutter builds that anyone can fall back on.

Honestly, I don’t think any other nerf in the game got as much attention as this one.

One person posting hundreds of times is not attention.

Warriors have the toughness of the guardian the health pool of a necro the DPS of a thief and had insta heal from a over powered food some thing was going to change.

with so much attention maybe the devs will notice they are still over powered and fix a few more things

cargan.5689:

with so much attention maybe the devs will notice they are still over powered and fix a few more things

don’t think so, as they are apparently underrepresented in SPVP.

Daecollo.9578:

TexZero.7910:

Arimahn.3568:

TexZero.7910:

Arimahn.3568:

TexZero.7910:

Arimahn.3568:

Never once needed that food for my warrior.

already sub-par classes

Hurrrrrrrr.

So what do you deem sub par, considering the thread was moaning about how this directly nerfed warrior.

Let me guess, Ranger ?

You were misreading me I think. I wasn’t getting at warriors being somehow nerfed by this, I was explaining why people would be/are angry at the changes. Their hamfisted approach affects warriors much less than, say, an Engineer who relies on many fast hits with Flamethrower to keep his health up. That is, a rather squishy class that is forced into melee range.

Engies are every bit as good at PvE and not nearly as squishy as people want to believe. Then again most people love to do all the damages and none of the tactical positioning.

Again havent had a need for food on my Engie either… Also theirs really no need to get in melee range with them considering grenade kit is amazing and out ranges rifles.

Grenades, huh? So, that one build everyone uses because its the least bad. Great design right there. No problems whatsoever.

Never stated its the only build, just said its a build that lets them stay safe from melee range. The have a few decent melee range builds. Mostly revolving around bombs / elixirs to keep up boons. Essentially it turns them into the Engie version of D&D Ele with a bit less upfront spike but more utility.

Except this food really didn’t effect those builds that much, it mostly effected Melee Warriors/Thieves more then anyone else because of there high hit-rate attacks and the fact they “have” to be in melee most of the time.

Yeah, the people taking 12 stacks of bleeds and constant almost one-shot aoes.

I’m a thief. Never used em, not gonna miss em. Tanky as a thief can get, loves to dive thru a breach in WvW first. Lives enough that I don’t feel like I’m wasting my time. Tho now I know why I have to burn the health outta some builds twice. Guess I wont have to anymore. Not a stealth/run away thief either. I’m the rare one that stands and fights. Dunno what this q.q fest over this is about. If an avg stand and fight thief can live without a crutch, and still kill more then gets killed………….

Sleel.8365:

I’m a thief. Never used em, not gonna miss em. Tanky as a thief can get, loves to dive thru a breach in WvW first. Lives enough that I don’t feel like I’m wasting my time. Tho now I know why I have to burn the health outta some builds twice. Guess I wont have to anymore. Not a stealth/run away thief either. I’m the rare one that stands and fights. Dunno what this q.q fest over this is about. If an avg stand and fight thief can live without a crutch, and still kill more then gets killed………….

Bingo. These people aren’t upset because their build was nerfed, they’re upset because their crutch was yanked out from under them.

stop whining cuz they nerfed your pies, your in a lot better spot than alot of other classes.

this was an exploit and this nerf was long overdue

and before you say about guardians how about you play one once, they have less viable support skill options for both dps and tanking, lower natural hp pool ,and less weapon combos.

and for the record i play a full zerk warrior and i hardly die, they added dodging for a reason.